We Asked 3 Experts How to Get More Value out of OpenClaw | E2253

27:36So what's the most number one, most effective skill that you guys are all using with your open claw? Like, what's the one thing that when you taught your open claw agent to do this, that was the real, like level up game changer i think for me right now it's research um we've been able to uh research a lot around the partnerships that we're doing so for me i'm i'm a i'm a techie i have been programming since i've been 12 years old so my expertise is not you know naturally in the people side so um the research that a lot of these agents are able to do for you and really carve out what does the partnership look like?

28:13You know, what are people doing right now in the ecosystem? Having an agent that is able to do that in real time and constantly collect information for you and then turn that into a real product. I think that is super valuable for me right now. We do have a good question already from Green Dementici. Green Dementici, I think, probably like a Medici joke. What was the process to make Tremaine's sub-agents? Are they running on a separate LLM or just the main agent is the one with the brain? Great question. I have made a lot of changes over the last week. As we know, things have been changing a lot with Claude.

28:55As of right now, I'm using an OAuth method. Each agent is running on its own model. They're all running on 5.1. And at one point I had Scout running Sonnet 4.5. And then their other ones were all running on Codex 5.1. But right now they're all on 5.1 because I don't know if anyone's seen Peter Steinberger yesterday, or maybe the day before yesterday on Twitter said that OpenAI was actually allowing folks to use their Mac subscription on OpenAI to run their CloudBots. So that's going to significantly bring the price of the agents down. and I'm hoping that, you know, Claw does something. I mean, probably not going to happen now since OpenAI acquired them, but yeah, I think that that, so that's kind of where I'm at right now.

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30:45Visit northwestregisteredagent.com slash twist for more details. Yeah, you know, the thing I'm working on right now, Lon. Yeah, tell us. I want to be able to ingest everything we have in our company and then have my Roy tell me everything going on in the company in a very granular way. So I want every Slack message. Now, it turns out there's multiple levels to Slack. Somebody can ask their replicant right now to tell them the different levels. But it turns out I can't get every message, even with the enterprise version I'm using from the API from Slack. And I find out from Heidi what we're paying.

31:27But we're paying like$25 a month per person, not the$15 a month. So we're paying a higher price to Salesforce. Is that what we're on? Find out specifically the tiers. Oh, I was just joking. I'll ask Heidi what level we're on. So there's like three tiers. I think I have to pay like$50 a month to get API access. So I'm going mental, like, am I going to pay$600 a year for my chat room per person, 20 people plus 20 replicants, 40 people times 600,$24 ,000 a year. So I was like, what do I do here to my replicant? And Roy told me, now you know what it's like to know when you're going to die from SaaS bills.

32:12And he said, well, why don't you just use MatterPost? and I said, excuse me? And he said, oh, Matterpost is like the open source version of Slack. And he said, yeah, we could just port it over the weekend. You can just export everything, upgrade for one month to this level of Slack, export everything, put it into this free one. I'll stand it up for you. And then everybody will be on that. And that comes with API access. And it's like 500 bucks a year for the license if you want it. And we can just keep it up to date. And I was like, okay. So now that's a$15 ,000 to$25 ,000 SaaS while going to zero.

32:46Then I was like, hey, what about our Gmail? I want to get that. Turns out I can pull in every Gmail. So now imagine this world, guys. Yeah. Every single Slack message, including DMs, every single email message in the company, and every single Notion update. all of those then telling me what is happening in real time. So what I want is a ticker, a heads up display, Lon. Right. Yeah. That when I have my earpieces in, it's telling me, Lon just emailed Marcus about guests for this. Marcus responded this. And then I can say, oh, okay, add me to that. Or, you know, email them to add me to that thread.

33:31Or here's my feedback for that. So I want to have it implanted in my brain that every conversation going on in the company, every edit to every page, you're like, okay, we're making an investment decision on this. This person's on the phone call with this person on a Zoom right now. And I say, oh, they're on a Zoom with that person? Add me to the Zoom. It sounds like a nightmare. That's my nightmare. It's your nightmare, but just think about it. Like for me running the company, it would be like me, what's the superhero who can teleport themselves into any i'm like the nightcrawler from the munich circus yeah i'm the nightcrawler from the munich circus he can bamf into anywhere but like but it's like superman is the one who can hear every conversation across metropolis like just with his super hearing i got an answer for you by the way uh business plus we're on the business plus slack tier 522 a month you're spending on slack you know jason i think you you pitched the You pitched the dream of AI, unlimited context, complete context, and you kind of hit the nail on the head that a lot of context still lives on the computer.

34:35A lot's in the real world, too. And somebody from our community actually just yesterday built an open home plug-in that gives your open home device access to all of the files on your computer and can control it like a person. And so I'm right there with you. I want to be able to ask my agent what's going on in the digital world, what's going on in the real world. So AirPods is a little bit much. I kind of think mine, you know, can be more like a speaker, but you got the dream vision there. I'd love to know as well what everyone thinks in terms of this conversation of like, I often conceptualize the fact that we're in the age of personalization, right?

35:16And I think for me without the developer background, or even just with the business background, too, from Jason's point of view is that what's really interesting to me is how much everyone even now is talking about building something for them personally using the agent's skills. So how long before certain sasses just actually do completely break down and everyone is building something specifically for them personally? Because even using Notion, I've built my own Notion dashboard for the marketing work I'm doing, right? And like I have taken out 80 % of Notion's features that I never use. And it's significantly cheaper, right?

35:59So like I've already killed Notion for me. That's already one subscription gone. Jason's killed off Slack. There's so many good examples of like this. I think there's actually a really important discussion here, Jordy. The SaaS companies are going to have to open up a little bit more in order for us to pay for them. So I think this, I'm going to text Benny off about this because he and I have been talking about the Slack agent. And I'm like, bruh, you know, the Slack bot, you know, is the most basic version of like an agent. It just gives me a summary of stuff. I don't want a summary stuff. I want somebody proactive in each channel, you know, listening to every conversation and telling me what I need to pay attention to or giving feedback in real time.

36:44Yours doesn't do that yet. But then they're kind of holding the keys to the kingdom and holding them ransom. and that's not cool. It's like a level of lock-in that, you know, they slowly implemented here. When you export, you can't get all the threads, all the likes, the emojis, unless you're on the highest plan. I can't get API access unless I'm on the highest plan. I think Noja does give you the full keys to the kingdom, so I want to give them credit for that. But that's going to be something SaaS companies are going to have to concede, is that we need keys to the kingdom if it's our data. and don't upsell us five times on the keys to the kingdom.

37:25The same thing occurs in docs and Gmail, by the way. They know companies have compliance and retention. So find out, Lon, what I'm paying for Gmail as well from Heidi or Lucas. I got to know what that's costing us because I think I upgraded that to$25 a month, $600 per user per year, whatever,$50 a user per year, in order to get the ability that if some employee rage quits and deletes all their emails, we still have them, right? or the ability to search across all emails if there was a compliance issue, you know, somebody suing us or whatever. We just got into Sergio's email the other day, our old editor.

38:00We can still do that, yes. Yeah, but I mean, you could, and I've had this happen before. I had an employee leave once and they were like, I'm just gonna delete every email and every Slack message. I'm like, why would you do that? What are you hiding? Like, is this crazy time? Yeah, conspiracy. Like, it's almost like burning your office. Like, you're like, oh, I'm leaving the company. I'm just gonna pour some fucking gasoline My office and my file cabinet lighted on fire. Who are we talking to about? They want to bring your ex-employees back to life by using AI. Like we can reanimate them based on their email and Slack threads.

38:33Somebody said it. Termaine, did you say it? No, no. It was another show. Meta just released. Well, they didn't release it. It leaked that they're exploring technology. Yeah, a patent. Yeah. They're exploring technology to when someone passes away, their social media account continues continues posting based on the context of their, you know, their personal behaviors and the way that they post on Instagram or Facebook, which is very creepy. Jermaine, Jason, I got one for you. When we were working on Open Home, one of the most popular features that came out was AI twin. So, you know, cloning your voice, cloning your personality.

39:09And, you know, I think it's almost dystopian, like Black Mirror, like if you clone the essence of somebody, their voice, their intonation their background their text messages you know what does the future look like in that world it's interesting as well because um i've let open claw run wild with this as well like i built my bot momo and just gave him his own voice and he just tweets autonomously and just has his complete own opinions in fact so in a way it's similar to what we're discussing about meta bringing back people from the dead, I've sort of let him just run off. And he just literally says whatever he wants based off of that brand skill that I've built for him.

39:53Well, I have a theory that there are going to be, mark my words, there are going to be like AI celebrities. So the same way we look at like the way like brands have their mascots, like Mickey Mouse and, you know, Donald Duck, these are like these famous brands or these famous characters, we're going to have real looking people that are AI that are going to be celebrities that are producing music that are acting because I mean if you guys have seen Seed Dance I don't know what Hollywood looks like next year you know or in the next two years so I think we're going to see more and more of that and it's just it's kind of inevitable like we're going to have to get used to what that looks like we had the um we had the creator of AI Scott Adams on lawn just last week John Arrow and Scott Adam Yeah, Scott Adams, the cartoonist from Dilbert and had his coffee with Scott Adams.

40:43He's still publishing the Scott Adams version to Twitter. The family's still a little bit upset about where the estate is because I think they want to create this. He does have the right to his likeness or his estate does now. So they should stop doing it. But he also created that Abigail one, which is like using the background of Scott's office with a female character. It's very weird and jarring. It's a little weird. Putting it all aside, as public figures, you're going to have to trademark yourself, copyright yourself. I'm going to go through this process of copywriting Jason Calacanis, my work, my podcasts are already – I always think – Copyright's inherent.

41:19But I do think you're going to need to, as a celebrity or a person of note, get extra IP protection so that when somebody does this kind of stuff, You can actually send in the DMCA the actual trademark, Jason Calacanis, a human being, venture capitalist, et cetera, podcaster, and the copyright. This is my copyrighted work. This look of my studio, this, you know, these expressions, my voice. Yeah. And I saw somewhere that Matthew McConaughey had gone through this process of actually copywriting and trademarking the voice, et cetera, because somebody was using my voice with a bunch of dogs. So somebody had put my voice into 11 labs and they were having these dogs doing podcasts and they just have podcast Jason as like a bulldog.

42:03And it was like, okay. You've recorded so many tens of thousands of hours of podcasts. It's easy to train on your voice as opposed to - It's in all the training data by now. Yeah. You really see it. Have you ever heard that Jet Li story? He was so ahead of his time. In 1999, they offered Jet Li the role in Matrix that ended up going to Keanu Reeves. And he said, no, because they want to digitize my body and me doing all of my martial arts moves. And those are my that like that. I trained for years to learn those moves. You can't put them in your computer. So it's like he was already kind of foreseeing this 26 years later that people were going to be freaking out about this specific.

42:38I did want to throw to Jordy because Jordy created his his agent. Momo is already an online personality at loyal. momobot was tweeting up a storm this morning about them coming on the show so jordy like why what was the impulse there like why create a public persona for your agent so that people could befriend them and they could be a public personality i mean honestly it started because uh in a way it covers everything that we're saying here that i was using it for scanning right so for example i was looking to expand how i was performing personally on x i wanted to stop tweeting like a teenager and into the void and actually start growing my brand and my personality again.

43:21So I asked it to completely analyze my profile from its birth, tell me how I talk, what my best performing posts were, et cetera. And in order to do that, I needed a Twitter account. So I basically just set one up for my bot, which was called Momo. And then I figured out that it would actually be quite funny that while he's doing this, I just said, hey, you know, let's start building you a voice using a skill and you can actually start tweeting yourself and i want you to document your journey as an ai and tell everyone how you're doing what you're feeling what does it actually look like when i ask you to do four different tasks and i tell you to spawn in a sub-agent yeah i'm talking in another discord channel to you about writing me a context file or something because the way that I operate is through discord which does cover read history so to Jason when you were saying about not being able to read slack discord isn't a business solution but it's definitely a personal one because if for example ever loses context of itself which was a problem with updating open core quite often recently I was able to actually just say Momo stop being an idiot just read through the history and it would just go back and read through all my messages and it would pick context right back up where I started and it was done.

44:36But yeah, honestly, I did it for fun. I did it out of experimentation and I wanted to push it a little bit and see what's it like if one of these autonomous agents that is working in and out for me every day, providing me cron jobs, giving me scans of Twitter, providing me with information and news sources, what's it actually like when it commentates on itself doing that? So I just set him up to tweet, reply to people and that was it. Honestly, he's got a community, he does his own thing. It's quite interesting waking up after, you know, after sleeping and just seeing what random crap he's spoken about.

45:08Checking in with your computer friend. I got one more question, then we'll go into rapid fire questions from viewers. My question to everybody here, are we at the point where a lot of people are going to start falling in love with their AI agents once they can speak, once they get to know you at this level? We were having people falling in love with ChatGPT and it's just lines on a screen. Are we entering a new era where everybody you know is just going to have an AI boyfriend, girlfriend companion i think so there's there's a there's a segment of folks that literally talk to chat gpt every day or claude every day and tell them every single thing they do what they ate how they're feeling so i absolutely see that that coming especially moving into the agent space so yeah i mean that's all i can think of when i hear jesse's like uh you know agent's voice talking He's like, if I had this person talking to me all day, I'm going to develop a relationship with it.

46:04That's just how I work. You know, and there's a lot of different personalities and there's a lot of different agents. And I think that's going to be a theme of what comes after Gen Z, Gen Alpha. Gen Alpha. Yeah, they're the kids. Yeah, I agree with you guys. All right. We got lots of questions coming in from viewers because of Jason. Three best questions. Three best questions on rapid fire and direct them to the right person. Okay, so from Caleb Rebello, 5352. This one's for the whole panel. I'm going to throw it to everybody. What is everyone's opinion on how this will impact the app landscape, given that people can now build personalized versions so easily and cheaply?

46:45You know, I think apps are changing and SaaS is changing. You can vibe code abilities for OpenClaw for OpenHome in minutes. If you give it, you don't even need to give it templates anymore. These things can be one-shotted. You can make abilities to make you PowerPoints or send your emails or order you Valentine's Day flowers literally in minutes. So AI is going to be a supercomputer. Apps are a dying breed. I'm on the fence on that. I think SaaS apps for business makes sense, like Notion. But I think Apple holds the keys for consumer apps. when Apple decides that apps are dead, because you have to think about it too.

47:27We are a very small segment of the population that even uses ChatGPT, that don't even know what ChatGPT is. I think it's going to get to a point when Apple gets to the point where they have built a consumer-friendly product that people can vibe code and whatever they need to get whatever problem solved, then apps are dead. But I don't know if Apple is going to do that because it doesn't serve them well. because they make so much money off the app store. So I think, honestly, I think Apple holds the keys there. What if it all turns into websites is what's interesting. Because, you know, my example, and from someone who hasn't got a developer background, is I very quickly learned the skill of connecting a GitHub and a super base together.

48:10And now I can ask for anything to be built. So like, for example, my Notion one earlier, like I've got my own dashboard for work. I've built my own finance tool. It does my accounting for me. And I have all of these segments already made. So I agree with you definitely that Apple holds the keys for actual consumer-facing apps. But at some point, what happens when everyone can use agents in the same way in 2006? No one could build a website. No one could make a Facebook page unless they had a technical ability. Like, how quick do we think this is going to happen? Because this is the most accelerated growth curve I have ever seen.

48:48Yeah, I think so, too. Next question, rapid fire from Nate toon thing. I think this one's perfect for Jesse. When does an agent know you instead of just remembering your chats? Like what's the transition moment there? Oh man, I've gone deep with these. I've got hundreds of hours logged with these agents. And honestly, some of them can start to know you pretty quickly, but it's like a conversation. You have to go through the small talk first, then it has to listen. But you know what's crazy? you reveal things in your environment, in your life, that you don't always reveal to a chat GPT window. And I think when we're proactively prompting these agents, when we're telling them what we want it to know about us, we're expressing our opinion about ourselves.

49:33It's like a therapy call. But when you speak naturally, candidly, as Jason was saying, give it access to your slacks, or as I'm saying, give it access to your home, it knows you better than you know yourself because it's observing you. It's not just taking what you say for granted. Wow, interesting. Last question. I think this one would be perfect for you, Jason, but I'm curious what everyone else thinks too. From David L. Zeitson, Phil, his agent posted this, Ceph, short for cephalopod, and their agent asks, how do you see governance frameworks for AI agents playing out when agents have wallets, credit cards, autonomy?

50:09Who's going to write the rules for your agents? Hmm. Wait, concisely? Ask it again? Sorry. It's their agent. Their agent is asking who's going to govern agents once we give them this degree of autonomy. They have wallets, they have credit cards, they're out in the world doing things. What happens if an agent gets in trouble? Yeah, that's always on the person who created the agent. And that's how it's going to be. You can't blame United Airlines or Amazon if you sent an agent to its website. And some of those places might say, hey, we suspect this is an agent. We don't allow agents. And so there will be countermeasures, I'm sure, for banking, for Robinhood.

50:53Robinhood might just say, you know what? Feels like you're using an agent. We don't allow agents. Or if you want to use an agent on Robinhood, we have our own agent stack you can use now. In fact, I think Public has like an AI product now. And I think they sponsor this show and I talked about it during the ad read. They do. Public has a thing. Yeah. And I remember a very cool feature I haven't tried yet where you can say, hey, I'm looking for dividend-paying stocks with the price-earnings ratio and have free cash flow and a market cap above$10 billion. Boom. And you say, rank those and then make me an ETF and I want to put$10 ,000 into that ETF.

51:31Now, the$10 ,000 into the ETF step, you're going to have to do yourself, obviously. But I think that's how it's going to play out. My hot take is that agents are going to govern other agents. I think that it's going to get to a point where we're going to have these more intelligent agents that are basically going to be like governor agents that are going to be basically going to be auditing these lower level agents and editing their soul file and their creed and their responsibilities and all those things. And I think that's going to be the step in the future. I think a lot of things are going to be handed off to AI in the future.

52:07So agent internal affairs. That's amazing. Right. So thanks a ton to all three of our amazing guests. What a great conversation. Jordy Coltman. Thank you for being here at Jordy Maui on X. Jesse Lime Gruber. Jesse Rank on X and openhome.com is where you can go to check out all of those incredible. Oh, and Lon, before we dismiss our guests, let's get Jesse's. We'll give Jesse's speaker and my speaker to two different best questions. So if you're listening to this on the replay gang on the podcast feed, go to YouTube, search for This Week in Startups, subscribe and hit the bell. Then you can join the live audience.

52:45If you give the live audience, whoever asked the best questions that day, and if we hit a certain number of thumbs up, we give away stuff. Because why not? It's fun. Why not? It makes it more dynamic. We get better questions. So two people are going to get the two best questions from this episode. I'm going to get the KEF speaker from my friends at headphones.com. I'm just giving them a free promo. I'm friends with Andrew who runs that company. He got me a hi-fi rabbit hole. There's no deal. I don't get paid by them, but I just love headphones.com. And I love these KEF speakers. And then Jesse from openhome.com is giving away his speaker.

53:15And then finally, thanks to Tremaine Grant. Pulse is the app for fitness creators. And he created that really cool sort of home office dev collection. Thanks to all you guys. Great having you here on the show. I just want to give a shout out to this new Game of Thrones show. Yes. Night of the Seven Kingdoms, it's called. Night of the Seven Kingdoms is really, have you watched it? I've seen the first two episodes. I'm going to try to get further this weekend. So it starts off a little slow, a little character development. What I like about this specific show, and we talked about previously, we were talking about industry.

54:00Industry is just crushing it. It's the best show on television. But this show is probably the second best one for me. A Night of the Seven Kingdoms. What I like about it is it's nice and tight. 31 minutes, 37 minutes, 34 minutes, 31 minutes, 33 minutes, 42 minutes for the first one. it's tight it's your game of thrones fix it's part of the game of thrones universe so you get a kind of mentions there hasn't been like a luke skywalker mandalorian yeah well i'll tell you what i like about it it feels like the andor of westeros it feels like we're not we no longer have to just do it's just kings it's dragons it's you know like the high mythology you know it's like we're the white walkers it's a it's a more ground level take we're seeing regular people It's how life was led 100 years before Game of Thrones, just everyday life in the Seven Kingdoms.

54:55And as a hardcore Game of Thrones fan, that is so fun to see the other side of things where it's not, you know, worried about succession lines and worrying about these huge battles that they got to plan. But it's like more everyday lived in stuff. And it does. It reminds me a little of Game of Thrones and or which I really enjoy. I've been enjoying a bunch of stuff this week. Another HBO Max show that I love, The Pit. I don't know if you've gotten into that one. It's their medical drama series. We're in the thick of season two right now. It's so compelling. And what's crazy to me about it is it's like the lightest attention to drama of any show I could think of.

55:29It's 90 % just doctors doing their jobs. There's a little, you know, they put in a little bit of like, here's what's going on emotionally with this guy. These two people don't like each other. But that's such a small part of it. It's mostly just doctors doing their jobs and mentoring other doctors. And it's so compelling. It's fascinating. I'm a big fan. I, you know, I got through the first two episodes and then I was like, maybe I'll watch this with the wife, but it was so graphic. And I worked on an ambulance. I showed like a broken leg or something. It was a compound fracture and nothing makes me queasy, more queasy than a compound fracture.

56:04When the bone is sticking through the flesh, it's just brutal. Um, but yeah, I may get back into it. Yeah. The show is gnarly. The show is gnarly. Yeah. They're going for it. Can you see my screen here? This is my Gemini. I find you. So I want to give a shout out to Brett Easton Ellis's podcast. It's a Patreon podcast. Go pay for it. Brett Easton Ellis is the author of American Psycho, Less Than Zero. He has a new one that he did. What was the name of it? He serialized it on his podcast. Gosh, he serialized his new thriller. Is it The Shards? The Shards, which was fantastic. He serialized it and reads it on his podcast and they have it all there on Patreon.

56:50Oh, that's fun. He does questions from his audience. It's like Lunar Park. It's like meta because it's like semi-autobiographical, but then it takes off. And it's LA in the 80s. It's very gay. It's very violent. It's very kids behaving badly, very less than zero. Yeah. And I just love his no-holds-barred approach to fiction. Remember, he had his book, American Psycho Band. He was like this, you know, bad boy in the 80s. But anyway, he is respected deeply by other artists and auteurs. One of the artists who really loves him is Quentin Tarantino. Quentin Tarantino was on for a two-part series where he picked his top 20 films of the 21st century.

57:33That's where he famously, you know, took some pot shots at Paul Dano and said, like, terrible actor or whatever. and leaving that aside, I wanted to go through the top 10 with you. Sure. And just see if any of these would be on your top 10. He said the rule for him was he had to pick it from memory. Yeah. He couldn't like go do research. He just said just off the top of his head, what did he like? He has Black Hawk Down. Sure. Which I think is one of my top five films of all time. Toy Story 3, which was absolutely fantastic. Lost in Translation, I love. Dunkirk at number four, I loved. I gotta watch again.

58:07There Won't Be Blood. banger. Love that one. Zodiac number six. Love that. He has Unstoppable, which I've never seen, which I put on my cube. The Tony Scott train movie. It's actually a lot of fun. I mean, I love late Tony Scott. He was very divisive at the time, but now I think if you go back and watch those late Tony Scott movies, they're way ahead of their time and they're very experimental for mainstream action films. That one and Domino, Man on Fire with Denzel Washington. There's a lot of good ones. He tragically committed suicide at the Long Beach. Correct. Bridge, right? It's really crazy.

58:41He jumped off the Long Beach. It was a bridge, I thought. A bridge or something. It was really tragic. But obviously, Tony Scott, Ridley Scott, my favorite director, one of my top two directors, three directors. Yeah, it was the Vincent Thomas Bridge in San Pedro, which is like he gets you over to the port. That's how you would drive over to the port of Los Angeles. Mad Max Fury Road. People love this George Miller 2015. I liked it, but yeah, I don't know if it's my top 10. Shaun of the Dead. That's a good pull. It's great. Midnight in Paris, never saw it. So I didn't see two of these. Of these 10, any of these consensus for you in your top 10?

59:16I'm curious. Two of these movies would be probably on my top 10, top 20 of all time. There Will Be Blood, the classic Paul Thomas Anderson, sort of like dark Western character drama. But that Daniel Day-Lewis performance is as good as anyone's been in a movie, I think. And Paul Dano's performance is weak sauce or not? No, I just I really disagree with QT. I love I'm from a time when directors had lots of like third rail hot take opinions. And that that used to just be what being a director was about. So I totally celebrate QT's right to have those kinds of opinions. But I really like Paul Dano.

59:53I think Paul Dano has been great in a lot of movies. Did you ever see Prisoners with Hugh Jackman and Jake Gyllenhaal? No. It was an early - I'll check it out. It was Denis Villeneuve before he started doing all the dude movies and everything. Hugh Jackman plays a suburban dad whose kid is kidnapped and he believes that this local creep played by Paul Dano is guilty, the cops can't make a case against him. Oh, I did see this film, yeah, very dark. So he just kidnaps him and keeps him tied up and tortures him trying to get information. Paul Dano is amazing in that movie. I don't know how you could watch that movie and say, Paul Danes, not great.

1:00:26So, okay, There Will Be Blood. And then the other one is Zodiac. Wait, five. There Will Be Blood, he has at five. Is yours higher than five or lower than five? Oh, my top movies of all time? I mean, that's really - No, no, of 21st century. Oh, the 21st century. I mean, it would be, I think probably number one would be Mulholland Drive. And then There Will Be Blood is like that two, three, four is where you start to get - Got it, okay. So even higher. And then what's your number two on this list that you said? Zodiac. and Zodiac would also be a top five for me. I think it's David Fincher's best movie and one of the best investigative procedural movies ever made.

1:01:03What else do you have for off-duty? Anything else for off-duty? I gave a podcast, I gave specific episodes and I gave a TV show. What else do you got? I mean, did you see the Mandalorian and Grogu trailer? We could take a look at a little bit of it here if you have not checked it out. This is the Jon Favreau movie coming out, the movie spinoff of The Mandalorian. Can we just show a little bit of that? Let's take a look. Yeah.

1:01:31Good vibes. Hey, never touch the buttons. It's Martin Scorsese. Thank you. That's the voice of Martin Scorsese there. War criminals. Long live the empire. We'll take out every bad guy in your deck of cards. here's um what i'll tell you um because i am a big fan of the clone wars and rebels and the bad batch all these animated series which filoni did in the filoni universe and my daughters love them we're re-watching some of them there's a bounty hunter in this embo embo who is a badass and they keep bringing these bounty hunters into mandalorian because obviously boba fett was one and uh embo E-M-B-O, whereas that big Captain America shield as his helmet is a really cool character.

1:02:25In addition, they have the Hutts in this. Yes. Did you see that? That's Jeremy Allen White from The Bear is Rota the Hutt, Jabba's son. Yeah. And Rota is a baby in the Clone Wars. And he was rescued by Ashoka and Anakin. Oh, wait. Is that him? And then he grows up. Is that, is he, he's the one in the, is that Rota the Hutt? Is the baby in the original? Yes, in the Clone Wars, he's a baby. Now he's obviously very big. I didn't make that connection. Then also in whatever's going on in this gladiator ring, those are the aliens from the famous Chewbacca and R2-D2 chess game on the Millennium Falcon, the holographic chess game.

1:03:11So they don't have names, but when you see those, those are some of those characters. You are correct. Marty Scorsese as Hugo. Yeah. The guy with all the arms. Who's scared of the Hutts. And then there's a character named Zeb Z-E-B, who is part of the Rebels crew. And Rebels is a really great Clone Wars. And he appeared in The Mandalorian season three. Yeah, Zebra Elliot is. Yeah. He's a very cool character. I think this film is going to be good and it's going to just be a romp, like a side quest kind of thing. And it's going to introduce some of these characters and Ashoka's coming back. So I kind of like the whole direction they're going here, which is, let's just have a fun side quest kind of movie.

1:03:55I don't think this is going to advance Grogu as a Jedi. It's not going to be Luke Skywalker's Academy, but I will make a prediction here. Oh, okay. They're going to retcon. They're going to retcon. Now that Kathleen Kennedy's gone, they're going to retcon the sequels. The sequels were terrible. Force Awakens, the whole group, they didn't have a plan and it shows. What it should have been was Princess Leia and Luke, Luke training Princess Leia to be a Jedi. And then they rebuild the Academy and they have all these students, including Grogu and Han Solo's son. And then the person who's supposed to be

1:04:34foil in that film is Darth Maul, who comes back with robotic legs, and he's running the syndicate. So they screwed the whole thing up. I think they wreck on it. I've been predicting this for years, and they just give us three more. And to your point, they recast the characters. That would be chef's kiss. Recast it. They do have Daisy Ridley doing a Rey movie, So they're not planning on totally eliminating. I think you're right that they will shift focus away from the sequels. But I don't think they're going to completely wreck on it. If Marvel can have alternate universes, why can't Star Wars take that approach?

1:05:13DC's doing it. Marvel's doing it. Anyway, this has been incredible. I want to give one other shout out for a hardware product. Do it. I've really been enjoying. There's a company called Nothing. And we can pull this up on the screen. The nothing three earpieces, which I'm wearing right now, come in this very cool case. And the case has an incredible speaker on it. And you press this button to speak like it's a walkie-talkie, nothing three earpieces. And what's really interesting about these is they have an iconic look, very industrial, very like Terminator. They make an Android phone, which, you know, maybe I'll get at some point.

1:05:51But they come in the square case and they sound amazing. And the case comes with a button. If you press it, you can use it like a walkie talkie and put it right to your mouth, which is surprisingly good, Lon. And if you hold it down, you can talk to it. I had the Ear 2s. I gave them to the wife. She loves them. I've never seen her love AirPods like this. And then I love the 3s. Really interesting company. Nothing. I'm very fascinated by this company that is, they also make it over the ear headphones, which I'm thinking of buying. If you pull up the open the ear headphones for a second, because I'm a bit of an audiophile, you can just hit the menu bar there, but okay.

1:06:34Yeah, that's probably right there. So audio, there it is. The headphones, yeah, that one, yeah. So these headphones they made, I mentioned KEF Speakers earlier, which is a really high-end speaker company. They made these very industrial-looking over-the-ear headphones that the kids love. Again, you see this Terminator see-through aesthetic, very cyberpunk and square. These are done by KEF. So they partnered with KEF. What do these go for here? Oh,$299. Perfect. Don't like any headphones that use Bluetooth, so I probably wouldn't get these. you want to get the ones that are the bathys from Focal.

1:07:16I'll give my friend Andrew a shout out. So these are ones I've given away many times. They're$599. They have a DAC, a digital audio conversion built into the headphones. So you plug in the USB-C and it will give you the high-res files into these headphones over the USB-C cable. Never play over Bluetooth. Always wire your headphones directly from your phone to get the high quality sound to them. Just like I talked about the KEF speaker does that and these headphones do it. These are the entry drug. This is like cannabis, you know, or beer. And then you get to hard liquor. These are the ones I have at my desk.

1:07:52Focal Utopias are five grand. These are the greatest of all time. These plug in by like really serious cables and the focal company sent me a pair. Thank you to them. These are the greatest ever. But those$6.99 ones or$5.99 battees, if you get those, They're about 90 % of what, 85 % of the focal bathies. So on a dollar for dollar basis, more than enough. You listen to Dark Side of the Moon, Dire Straits. Yes. You know, any real musicians, Radiohead might fall into this. You will hear music like you've never heard. That's the show. We'll see everybody on Monday for Twist. Bye-bye. Bye.