TWiT 1087: Evil is the Root of All Money - Could Local AI Laptops Compete With Data Center Giants?

19:28Megan Morrone:That was a specific purpose, a specific thing that they did with the printing press that caused that change. You can do the same thing with an LLM, but again, you have to have that specific purpose. Right now, you've got so many companies that are just rushing to build the all-in-one LLM, the all-in-one model. That's, I mean, it sounds good. It's going to sell stock, but that's not really where you're going to find its utility. And you're going to get quicker to your goal if you have specified that goal than if you try to make the general everything machine.

19:56Ant Pruitt:To that point, the Financial Times today leaked OpenAI Plot's biggest chat GPT overhaul since launch. This is part of, of course, their race to IPO as well. Let me read the text from the Financial Times. This is Christina Criddle writing. The company intends to transform the chat GPT chatbot into a super app. Where have we heard that before? Like X? That combines coding tools and AI agents, adding products that executives believe will generate more revenue. And this is going to be given to normal people, right? The change which will give greater prominence and resources to Codex, their coding product, reflect a growing conviction within the company that the future of AI lies not in chatbots that answer questions, but in agents that perform tasks for users.

20:49Ant Pruitt:One, they quote one senior OpenAI employee saying, chat is dead. You have to rename chat GPT. Oh, no. I have to see. But this fascination with a one super thing, actually, we have had engineers talk about this before. So what I'm talking about right now is nothing original to me. Originally, when people were talking about having machinery in the home, everybody was thinking, you know what? We'll have one giant electric motor in your house. And through a series of pulleys and gears, you could direct that mechanical energy to other tasks. But it would all run off this singular pulley. And that's not actually the case.

21:37The classic engineering exercise these days is go and count the number of electric motors in your house.

21:43Ant Pruitt:Although, in the earliest days of the Industrial Revolution, that's exactly what they did, right? Yeah, but then they broke it apart. When Harper and Brothers burned down in the 1850s, they then rebuilt with a huge steam engine in a courtyard where it wouldn't burn everything at this time. And they went up throughout the gate floors and ran everything. It ran the elevator. It ran the printing presses. It ran the presses that got the impact out of the paper. It ran the saw to put the holes in to do binding. So what happened that they decided to decouple? Electricity. Electricity. because the line types were at first run on on that kind of pulley steam power and when the fact that electricity came along they could put it on their own uh electric motors that made the huge change then you put them anywhere yeah because the electrical energy it's very easy to wire up a place it's a lot harder to pulley up and gear up a place so i'm gonna submit something that i've thinking about i i sent jeff and uh steve gibson and other people um jeffrey hinton's talk oh boy from well he said something interesting that got me really thinking he said that uh analog like our brains is good because it's low energy it doesn't have to be super accurate it makes up for accuracy with parallelism massive our brains are massively parallel uh but if you can apply a lot of power digital you need to apply a lot of power to make it the distinction between ones and zeros so clear that there's never any ambiguity that's what analog can't do very well so once you can apply massive power to this uh then digital has some real advantages for instance he said all of our neurons are different he said give it up ray kerzwell you're not gonna be able to copy your brain into a digital machine because we are so analog that each machine is different he says he he hinton says i i thought we we could build an analog transformer i tried but we couldn't he says the advantage digital has is they're all the same and so all the learning from one ai can be transferred to another and another and another one transformer can move to another another and he said that makes software immortal it makes it and fat and infinitely faster and now this is what i was thinking in the middle of the night last night as an analog to that uh many people prefer records vinyl records you know sound is really just variations in air pressure you know that our ears can pick up with our eardrums and translate into something that our brain then can understand it's all analog from beginning to end my voice going to your ears into your brain it's all analog but we figured out thanks to shannon's law that you can slice up those waveforms and if you slice them infinitely or sufficiently not infinitely but it's sufficiently thinly those waveforms can be represented digitally and be indistinguishable from the waveforms and that actually transformed formed how we listen to music how we how we share music I mean when the mp3 came out it completely disrupted the music industry the audio industry I'm speaking to you digitally now there's no way we could be doing what we're doing if I had to shout and your ears had to perceive it father Roberts in Rome but in in almost because of because bits can move at light speed unlike sound and they can move infinitely far thanks to immense amounts of power being applied to them uh we can do things that we couldn't do with analog and i wonder if that's a a similar analogy that analogy holds when it comes to analog brains versus digital ai i think that's i think that's what hinton was implying hinton is another one of the doomers who says we're going to have problems because it's going to be so much faster.

25:49Ant Pruitt:Hitten takes a bunch of leaps off a bunch of high dive. Well, one thing he says, which I don't know if, I mean, how we'd even know this is that they're going to, that if this, let's assume you could get really super smart AIs. Would they really want to kill us? I mean, I don't know. I've asked Ray Kurzweil that. He says, no, no, we're their parents. He jumps off. He first says that they clearly understand. Well, without understanding the word understanding. Oh, yeah. And just because they use various characteristics of words, features of words, and can put them together into an interlocking puzzle, that doesn't mean understanding.

26:23Then he says, but my argument is, if they could understand, they would also understand truth versus falsity. And it'd be easy to make them stop hallucinating. But they don't. But then he says that they have a motive, which presumes consciousness, to lie to him, which again, it presumes that they know what truth and falsity is. And if they do know, then why can't we fix this before? so um he then makes all those leaps to say well of course it's conscious of course it is and i

26:48Ant Pruitt:don't i don't go there well here's the problem we don't know what conscious means we don't even know what understanding means right we don't have a good definition of either his contention i would say this is similar to this is why i mentioned the cds versus vinyl is if you can't tell the difference then what does it matter right uh the music coming out of a cd sounds exactly like an analog recording it's not it's sampled it's digital it's ones and zeros 44.1 thousand times a second right yeah because basically shannon's law says you need to sample at twice the at twice the frequency and the upper end of human hearing is 20 kilohertz exactly so if you get 41.1 yeah you should be able to capture everything that we can debate that humans here i think it's a similar debate because there are people who say no no i can feel the what we present i can feel the emotion in vinyl music okay okay i'm i gotta chime in here leo

27:44Megan Morrone:but because uh with a good enough sound system you can tell with a good enough sound system you can tell even you can tell no oh here we go so okay i'm not gonna debate that i completely accept

27:59Ant Pruitt:that you can hear it i would say it's very similar in the sense that um there are those of us who say well if you can't tell you know hinton's entire thesis is based on the idea that a transformer is creating these real you know these neural networks creating relationships between concepts and words that are effectively what we do as humans that is understanding and he says but we as humans don't want to accept the fact that we we like to think that what we're doing is special whether it's listening to analog music or whether it's thinking and he says it and this is my contention i don't know what understanding is i don't know what consciousness is we don't have a good definition for that my only contention is if you can't tell the difference it's fair to move forward as if it is learning but the issue leo i've been thinking about this because you do make this contention and what we present when we speak to each other is but a small part of what we are it is it is is it is it is a reduction to speech and there's so much more going on do you think in words even what do you think in words yeah but i i i would love to know what what it was like what an animal's like what it was like before i don't think animals think and i think animals know that tomorrow is another day a cat uh trying to uh plot against you i think a lot of what they're doing is instinctive not not uh can i provide a counterpoint yes so so

29:29Megan Morrone:you'd be the right guy to do this because of your faith i i understand the the view of the transformer model so if you can digitally sample something in the real world you can basically represent it in 100 % accuracy as many times as you want. I would argue that that is precisely the reason why you can't have a transformer model with true consciousness. True consciousness is not just the representation and the recreation of facts and information. True consciousness also allows for the thought process itself to, we'll call it, mutate. The wonderful thing about the analog world and the analog brain is that you get lateral movements between different trains of thought that allow for the creation of something new.

30:20Megan Morrone:Thank you. The first time that you have a digital representation of a consciousness will look exactly the same as the billionth time that you have a digital representation of that consciousness. Take an analog brain and the billionth time it will look nothing like the first time because of all those little variances. and I would argue it's in those variances that you find the unique nature of human conscience

30:41Ant Pruitt:I would say that that is true if you say this is a if you say it's static but once you take that transformer and then you apply power to it it is no longer the same it's no longer well that's because randomness is built in but well whatever for whatever reason you're comparing a non-active transformer right and i think it's true if you froze the human brain in that moment you could probably duplicate it so i i don't think it's a fair comparison it's just what you're talking a static transformer no power has been applied to it i see these i my my mind i and i know this is an inaccurate representation it's almost like to me an infinite number of wind chimes that are interacting not just with the ones next to them but the ones all over the space and when one is moved they get they fire and suddenly that is an alive i could see that yeah yeah maybe constellation you know what leo you are opening yourself up to being accused of being a protein chauvinist larry page called uh elon musk a speciesist like a racist because larry page and this is what why elon wanted to start up an ai he tells this story they were at a allen and co conference or something like that maybe a maybe a ted conference and they were sitting around the fire and elon was saying we got to stop these eight eyes because uh they're going to become you know dangerous to us as humans and larry said well what you're being speciesist speciesist uh this is the next step in the evolution of consciousness is these ais uh yes they'll replace us or maybe they'll replace us or maybe we'll stick around just like monkeys and dogs stick around.

32:27I also went to...

32:29Ant Pruitt:It's time to move on. And Elon was so horrified by this. He said, I'm starting to open AI. And by the way, he says, I've never spoken to Larry Page since. He was furious over this. I'm beginning to form a theory, actually, that it's troublemakers from Toronto who are causing all these AI problems. For instance, yeah, Marshall McLuhan, but also, you know, Hinton. He's in Toronto. Right. And also Chris Ola, co-founder of Anthropic. I know him. Who was in Rome, right? Yeah.

33:03Megan Morrone:He's just over here. Just over in Rome. And I know him from Hack Lab TO. We were both members of this hackerspace in Kensington Market. Wasn't Fei-Fei Lee also from Toronto?

33:15Ant Pruitt:Isn't there a whole, there's a lot of this stuff came out of. McCown went to work with Hinton in Toronto. Yeah, as a sootskiver. Yeah, as a sootskiver, right? Yeah, yeah, Ilya's from Toronto. And, you know, if we want to stretch it out a little further into science fiction and just writing in general, Corey is from Toronto. In fact, that's where I know I'm from, Corey Doctorow. But Chris Ola has talked about anthropic developing emotion vectors. Actually, you should do a search for that. And I was just going, really? Emotion vectors? And it's kind of interesting, also, that he did come to the Vatican, because I remember him from back then.

34:00He had, I would put it kindly, a deeply, he was deeply skeptical of the value of religion, to put it very kindly. Oh, yeah. I remember. So, yeah, but the fact that he would come to the Vatican and, you know, stand beside the Pope for the encyclical. Which peeved some others like Timnit Gebru and Margaret Mitchell were very mad that he was there, which is very interesting. At the same time, you have Anthropic, and I think you maybe Google, I saw a story a week ago, hiring ethicists and philosophers to worry about the feelings of the machine. That's what Angela Askell has also been doing. She was the author of the soul document.

34:42So not to put aspersions on Hinton because he's brilliant and phenomenal work. But I did look up. I asked Gemini to give me the list of people who've been accused of Nobelitis. And there's a fair number. Cary Mullis in chemistry, Luke Montagnier in physiology, Linus Pauling. I was going to say Linus Pauling. William Shockley. James Watson. Philip Lenard. Shockley as well, yeah. The prize kind of goes to their head.

35:10Ant Pruitt:and they think that they can it's funny in this talk that i sent you has a very funny humble brag about how gee i won i won the nobel prize for physics he managed to get that in i should probably be a better physicist i should know my units which was pretty funny but at the same time did get the you know managed to humble brag about winning the nobel prize i would too yeah yeah i think he's establishing his bona fides i don't know that's pretty good on the wrong with that yeah yeah uh you know i think credit to the holy father credit to pope leo for bringing in both sides uh i i'm sure emily ben and a conversation gebru would like ai to have no voice in this conversation at all but i think if you're going to have this conversation you should bring in the proponents i think it made good on what he said about having it a conversation yeah i i would not mess with a pope from chicago i've seen the untouchables because you know he puts one of your boys in purgatory you put one of his boys in hell this is a conversation that jeff and i have on intelligent machines we had it last week with you father robert uh a lot and um and i don't know if it's a conversation we'll ever have a conclusion version uh i am i am actually fairly convinced that whatever it is ai is doing it's doing it pretty darn well at this point uh it's doing it as at least as well as humans humans lie humans hallucinate humans fail all the time i don't like to ask for directions when i'm driving because half the time i'm going to get the wrong direction oh yeah uh no it's because you have a male ego that's why i'm much more likely to get good directions from google than i am from a human so uh i don't now i do think there's a distinction between uh digital and analog i don't think necessarily digital wins i don't mean to imply that i'm a human i'm i'm fully analog but i'm also fully aware of our failings and uh you know i'm not convinced that we should have primacy in a world where something could be whoa better whoa that's a big statement that's giving up uh control and perhaps even agency i think that a lot of the argument against this is a faith-based argument i'm not against faith-based arguments the core of the encyclical

37:37Megan Morrone:but also part of it is a recognition that it is a tool and you cannot give a private primacy to a tool. If you give a primacy to a tool, you get something like a school being bombed because an AI tool recognized a school as a military target. And nothing happened because they've used that tool to absolve themselves of any responsibility. That's a problem. That's not a human, not a technical issue. Human. That's no, that is a human problem. Yeah. But it's a human problem because human, they tried to use that idea of absolving themselves by using the primacy of the tool in order to make their target package that is very

38:17Ant Pruitt:risky i agree yeah but it's it's it's not a tool in the sense that a hammer is a tool it has somewhat somewhat or even a nuclear bomb it's a fan it still is a fancier tool and the other but i i'm of the firm belief yeah you give primacy to a tool if you played video games in 80s uh this is robotron this is robotron 2084 this is the cylons this is we do not want that that is one argument people use for why ais are dangerous is because they've ingested all of that dystopian science fiction and that's why they're going to act badly because they it's expected of

38:57Megan Morrone:them there there is a dystopian sci-fi however that for the past almost 40 years has been discussing this exact topic with this level of granularity it's called ghost in the shell it's from the late 80s it's exactly this topic this idea of digitizing consciousness what does it mean for a transhuman future right and star trek's worth a watch some of that although they've

39:20Ant Pruitt:never really addressed if captain kirk beams down to a planet is that the same captain kirk it is not it can't it's not possible it's not it's a different kirk we will need captain kirk's eventually because what captain kirk was really good at was convincing computers to shut themselves off or commit to like he was the best at that paradox he was captain kirk is the original prompt it was the tone of voice so yeah tell me which ghost of the machine should i consume should i consume the manga comic the tv show the original anime original anime watch the original anime and

39:58Megan Morrone:then watch ghost in the shell the uh the uh sac and then the second gig so there's two tv series watch the original and those two series kind of ignore everything else everything else is a little strange original print version of that there are but you but the the movies and the series are actually beautifully done so okay they invented new colors for that for that movie they did move

40:25Ant Pruitt:all right we got to take a break good conversation no conclusion but there never will be to this i think no uh it's but it's also an important conversation and i think that the pope did a very good job of uh of taking it oh it's it's excellent by the way i just want to put it out there again i'm so delighted that he directly called out the transhumanists and the post-humanists uh otherwise it was kind of for the ages but that was just kind of like oh come on guys no stop just stop stop it but don't watch the live action ghost in the shell right that's not do not watch

40:56Megan Morrone:that no it's not not great honestly i would love to i would love to invite scarlett johansson to join the club of asians but yes unfortunately no uh alex was telling me that in the club as well

41:12Ant Pruitt:live action movie. That's not so good. All right. We're gonna take a little break. LMJ in our YouTube chat says, I don't, Leo doesn't have any worries because it'd be long gone by the time AI goes haywire. I'm not convinced. I think it could happen soon. I don't think we're that, what do you think's the timeline? Really? Seriously? Leo, you're not buying, you still buy green bananas, right? You're fine. Oh, no, no, no. Oh, no, no, no. That's my joke. I'm so old. I don't buy green bananas anymore. Only ripe, yeah. I don't have time for them to ripe. And forget avocados, man. I only buy mushy avocados.

41:51Ant Pruitt:Joey Davila is here. Congratulations on the new job at netfoundry.io, where he is developer advocate. We have a lot of developer advocates on this show. I think developer advocates are good people. You're a developer advocate. Well, you know what I think is that they can talk English and computer at the same time. Yeah, we're basically just ENTP programmers. That's basically what it boils down to. Yeah. I love talking to computers. And that's what we like on our show, right? That's exactly what we need for a show like this. I like talking to computers and people.

42:21Megan Morrone:I'm a developer advocate as well. It's just a different kind of development.

42:27Developer evangelist at this point. Yeah. Another Ronald Alassier, SJ.

42:31Ant Pruitt:It's great to have you, the digital Jesuit. And of course, you got to have one professor on every show. Even if it's a fake one. Unlike the National Science Council, which has, what was it, the line? Has fewer professors than members of the All In podcast. Mr. Jeff Javis, so good to have you. Good to be. I can't wait. Well, I've read Hot Type, but I can't wait until it comes out and everybody else can be. Joey, is that the biggest glass of iced coffee I've ever seen in my life? This is Coke Zero, the breakfast of champions. Okay. It looks good. I happen to have a ZDTV mug. Oh, hey. Actual coffee.

43:12Ant Pruitt:Very nice. Yeah. I thought if I drop this, it's going to be the end of the line on this one. Oh, wow. This is history. This is the screensavers. That's a collector's item now. I know. It's so old, it doesn't even say tech TV. It says ZDTV. Oh, wow. Wow. Yeah. So don't fall. Don't let the kitty cat push that off the table. I have my G4 mug somewhere. I mean, that I don't care about. And I like Jeff's twit hat as well. It's good to have all of you on the show. Our show today brought to you by ExpressVPN. We're glad to have them as a sponsor. And of course, I'm glad to have them in my toolkit. Going online without ExpressVPN would be like, I don't know, leaving your laptop unattended at the coffee shop while you run to the bathroom.

43:59Ant Pruitt:Okay, 90 % of the time you're probably fine. But what if one day you come out of the bathroom and your laptop is gone? ExpressVPN is to protect you for that one in 10 times. Everyone needs ExpressVPN because every time you connect to an unencrypted network, whether it's at a cafe, a hotel, my big one is the airport. I can never resist the free airport Wi-Fi, right? but where did that free airport wi-fi come from you know whoever's providing that can see what you're doing your online data is not secure any hacker on the same network and by the way doesn't that i mean it's everybody in the in the airports on the same network can gain access to and steal your personal data and that data is valuable hackers can make up to a thousand dollars a person selling personal info on the dark web that's why i run express vpn especially when I'm connecting to the free airport Wi-Fi.

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46:13Ant Pruitt:Expressvpn.com slash twit. We thank them for their support of this week in tech. Computex. Okay, we got Apple's coming up tomorrow. So let me talk about the past, and then we'll talk about the future. Computex, which is the big computer show, it's kind of the last PC show in a way, right? In Taiwan. The big story there, I think, was Jensen Wong's keynote. They announced a whole bunch of stuff, including, I think, for our audience, the one that might be the most interesting is the RTX Spark. a consumer laptop chip, which will be made by MediaTek, which I think is kind of interesting, and built into laptops from all of the biggies.

47:01Ant Pruitt:Actually, Dell, I think, said they're going to do it. HP. Yeah. You're going to see them everywhere. And even NVIDIA is going to make them. The Spark is... But NVIDIA is going to make an NVIDIA-branded laptop? That's the impression I got. I might be wrong on that. that's a change maybe that maybe okay maybe I over maybe I over interpreted what they said they certainly have the OEMs anyway including by the way Microsoft now nobody's going to have that laptop till this fall and nobody said how much it would cost but I think you can assume it's going to cost a pretty penny yeah the spark is effectively the same GB10 chip that's in the DGX spark which a number of our club members have uh in fact we have one club member we had our ai user group on friday juan who has two geez he's double sparked beat that 10 10k worth of uh compute there yeah that's what he said almost ten thousand dollars uh they're five thousand each um does it suck more power at home well the idea and i think this is really interesting effect is what i want to talk to you all about is a laptop that can run local ai you don't you don't need you could use a macbook neo if you're going to be using claude or you're going to be using gpt or deep seek or any of these cloud-based ais they do all the work on their in the data centers that's why they're building these big data centers but if you want to save money you might want to run it locally.

48:38Ant Pruitt:I run some local models. Right now, I don't have enough hardware to run anything competent. Certainly, even if you had double Sparks, I don't know if you could run anything as good as, say, Opus 4.8 or certainly Mythos. If I recall correctly from my former life, actually having done some developer relations work for a DGX Spark variant computer for HP, In fact, it was Jeff who recommended me to appear on Intelligent Machines for that. Yeah, you were on the show talking about that. Yeah. The consumption of that was definitely sub-100 watts, like less than a nice bright light bulb for the DGX Spark ZGX Nano.

49:22But, okay.

49:24Ant Pruitt:No, that's good. But I'm just wondering, will it run Anthropic-like performance? I mean, what model are you going to run on that? you'll run I would say you know what it runs fairly well uh is uh Quinn uh the 30 the 30 yeah well I'm running that on my yeah I'm running that on my framework desktop with 120 and I'm running that on my uh I'm running that on an m5 mac and is it as good no it's not as good as you're not gonna say it's opus quality it's quite good though like it is good enough it is good enough Yeah, for a lot of work. For agentic work, I think so. You're right. Not for coding. It's fantastic for coding.

50:09Yeah, it's fantastic for coding. It is. It will answer a lot of questions reasonably well. And I have been kind of tooling around with just working with it and working with, actually working with NetFoundry's gateway where I can actually switch between LLMs and say, look, you know what, for this job, I want to use this particular LLM. For that one, I want to use my own local LLM. So there's a NetFoundry thing called LLM Gateway that does that. And I've been playing around with it and it works. It works rather well. And of course, the nice thing is It's local. I have complete control over it. I know I'm not giving away any secrets.

50:58And actually, the DeepSeek, when you run it locally, will actually tell you what happened in Tiananmen Square in 1989.

51:06Ant Pruitt:Yes. Actually, I run it from DeepSeek's servers, and it tells me what happened. Yeah, we tested that. Yeah. So I don't know. I did see a story that somebody said, no, it's now been nerfed, but I just tried it this morning, and it sure knew what happened. than Tiananmen Square. And that was running off of their servers, not my own server. Well, here's the other architecture I wonder about. You saw the story about Pulte, Homes, and Span, and NVIDIA. I put it in the rundown. We'll build many data centers in suburban backyards. And then will you sell your data to your capability? That's the question.

51:41Does everybody end up with a large machine in the home that handles all your stuff, but also becomes part of a larger neural network? and the data center becomes distributed across suburbs.

51:55Ant Pruitt:See, I think that there's going to be more and more interest in fully local models just for privacy, right? Yes. Although this is Apple's pitch is, well, you can trust us. So major home builder to test placing mini data centers in suburban backyards, that is crazy. Isn't it? It's only Pulte at first. So the idea is it's almost, I mean, it's like solar, right? If everybody ran solar panels on their roof and sold their power back to the power company, they wouldn't need to build all these power plants, which is why our local power company, Pacific Gas and Electric, won't let us create more capacity than we use.

52:34Ant Pruitt:They don't want us competing with them because it turns out their business is building power plants. They say they can install 8 ,000 of these units six times faster at five times lower cost than a 100 megawatt data center. Now, here's the big issue to me. The real issue with data centers is interconnects. One of the reasons they build these 100 gigawatt data centers is it's all on the same premises and their interconnects are so fast. Yeah. If you've got one in every backyard, how fast can the interconnect be?

53:04Megan Morrone:Well, for certain tasks. No, but I mean, so the certain tasks that you'd be able to run on many data centers that are interconnected via standard residential network infrastructure. Yeah, let's say it's gigabit. There's basically no advantage over having an AI chip from a Snapdragon X or one of NVIDIA's new chips in your laptop. It would be the same performance because that bottleneck, it doesn't allow you to use the full potential of either your mini data center or the mini data centers of your neighbors. Right. That's just basic infrastructure.

53:44Ant Pruitt:Bandwidth throughput is a big part of performance on these things. It's not just the GPUs. It's not just the CPUs. Well, yeah, when you watch Jason Wong's keynotes about the data centers, it's all about the speed. So I'm not convinced. You're right. This might be more AI hype. I noticed that this story comes from Realtor.com. But my question is, does everybody have, it's like we used to talk about you don't carry a phone, you have a blob that's on you. Right. Because every home in the future, besides having fiber to the home, doesn't have AI in the home in the sense of a powerful smart box. Well, obviously, Jensen Wong thinks people are going to want these laptops, right?

54:21Ant Pruitt:I think it doesn't make a lot of sense. I think a NAS or a server, a home server makes sense. That's what I'm saying, right. This is what I've always wanted to do. But yeah, and so maybe I need a data center in the backyard for my home server. I hope not, but maybe. I can't imagine the climate impact of a thousand home servers in the backyard. But anyway. But you know what? aspiring criminals this is your chance to put another bit is to get a whole bunch of bitcoin miners that's a good point that's a good in fact you know if it wasn't enough to make money in bitcoin to get this to happen i don't know if there's going to be enough impetus to get make

55:03Megan Morrone:this happen with ai so i mean to leo's point on the interconnects yeah let's say that they've got modern fiber and they're getting 10 gigabit connections between micro data centers that That sounds like a lot until you realize that the NV72 infrastructure that NVIDIA is using for their Verirubin data centers, that's 1.6 petabytes. Right. Not gigabits. Not petabits. Petabytes. It's so astronomically larger than what you could do with networking.

55:35Ant Pruitt:Well, even the DJX and RTX Spark are 300 gigabits. Oh, yeah. Sorry, gigabytes. bytes so that would be 3 000 gigabits per second we're 3 000 times faster than a home-to-home uh internet even if you got 10 gigabit very few of us are going to be training our own models

55:57Megan Morrone:we're going to be using models created by others so that that's the resource intensive part right

56:01Ant Pruitt:we're going to be just fine using desktop so if the frontier models are as some people in our discord are asserting we don't know but if there may be a trillion parameter a mixture of experts models that's significantly faster than that 36 billion parameter quen three six you're running yeah but then what pro but what problems are you presenting right to your models like i mean is it you know i i'm going on a trip to new york what should i what should i write it fold some proteins for me well in fact i asked quinn to give me a a product table on the rtx spark and it did a very good job of that so um it says deep seek now but i was i was running quinn when i was doing it um so you know but this is just looking up stuff on the internet certainly quinn is more than powerful enough uh to do that i just if you're going to spend ten thousand dollars on a double spark.

56:59Ant Pruitt:That's many years of anthropic tokens. Maybe not the way people are spending tokens. You saw the Axios story that some company unnamed half a trillion dollars on tokens.

57:16Ant Pruitt:That's token maxing. All right. I hope.

57:19Megan Morrone:But hey, but Leo, with those tokens, they probably replaced half a million dollars worth of human salaries. So I mean, right? We're good. We're good.

57:28Ant Pruitt:No, half a trillion versus half a million that does not pencil. And you still need humans, don't you really, to, even after the AI has generated all that code, to deploy it, to check it, deploy it, maintain it. I feel like humans. To ask for it in the first place, to spec it. Yeah.

57:46Megan Morrone:Until they have an LLM that generates prompts for itself.

57:50Ant Pruitt:Yeah.

57:51Megan Morrone:I mean, yeah. so uh what do you think of anthropics urge for a global pause i think it will be accepted as well as when musk called for a global pause and then immediately immediately started buying billions of dollars because yeah we've had yeah we've had that call for and it was also a six month period right yeah oh yeah yeah they yeah it's all doomer crap that's yes or is it marketing marketing crap it's marketing yeah it's i think anthropic is trying to get ahead of the backlash they're seeing the growing backlash against ai data centers and ai infrastructure and they want to come down firmly on the side of no no we're one of the good guys we tried to tell everybody to stop they just they just wouldn't so you know yeah yeah yeah uh it's like crusty the clown they kept driving dump trucks of money to my house i'm not made of stone so you've argued jeff you know you

58:42Ant Pruitt:like jan lacun who has argued that frontier systems based on llms can't possibly rival human intelligence um he says that we'll know what he says is that it will match and exceed human intelligence but in specific areas ah rather than what he what he fights against is number is the general machine the everything machine and number two the machine that has no goal his view is that you give it a goal and and the third most importantly what he argues and i wrote a post about this um last week with my my idolizing of jensen wong and yon lakun trying to learn from them. And what Lacone argues, as we know, is world models saying that the real life is infinitely more complex than language.

59:28Language is something you add on later. But if you can get the machine to figure out what a ball is and focus on that ball, not on everything else, and then understand the impact of what's happening to it. And then he argues very strenuously to understand that your actions have consequences and to predict what those consequences are is the only path to responsibility.

59:50Ant Pruitt:Okay, but I feel like everything I do in my life revolves around language. If I can't articulate it, what do you... Okay, so write this back to tell the robot. When you hold this pen and you think about what's going to happen if you let go, do you think about it in language? No, I think about it visually, but you don't. I think about it visually. You see it falling, but you don't. Yeah, I don't see it because I have aphantasia. Yeah, right. Or if you were to spec, the classic problem is, write the spec for the robot to wash your dishes. It's a very complex spec to write. And so Lacoon's argument is, as same as when Jensen Wong's, is the reason you need role models and digital twins is that only if they make up their own rules based on understanding constraints of nature and physics.

1:00:44They have to understand those constraints. And then within that, they can then be actors and then you can add language onto that as a as an abstraction of what those actions are yes he's not against that and again he will say as i will say llms are amazing they do great things nothing against llms but they ain't going to get you to where people are saying well let's come from taipei

1:01:04Ant Pruitt:taiwan to san francisco the next day microsoft launched its build conference and uh as uh as reported here by the verge the build keynote was almost all about ai were you surprised at the number of announcements they had uh yeah it was kind of a cascade wasn't it yeah they they piggybacked on jensen wong's announcements earlier saying they're going to make a mini surface pc with this uh rtx spark they're going to make a dev box as well as a laptop they didn't say anything about price and given how much ram ddr ram costs dr5 ram costs these days yeah where are where are all these chips going to come from?

1:01:48We still have a helium shortage. That's true. We've got two places that make helium that are currently under wartime conditions. I mean, we've got...

1:01:58Ant Pruitt:Helium is a byproduct of natural gas. Yes. And the big helium source is from the Middle East, natural gas. Natural gas and Ukraine. And Ukraine. Ukraine is the other... And both are currently, both are currently under fire. We have big natural gas reserves in the United States, but apparently we don't mine the helium out of it. We don't take the helium out of it. I'm not sure why. I guess we could. And the problem is, the annoying, the maddening thing is helium, atomic number two, is supposed to be the second most common element in the universe. It's just that Earth is a terrible bucket for helium, because it's light enough that it It achieves escape velocity.

1:02:42So it goes out into space. It just goes out into space. Like a helium balloon. Yeah. So why, if the demand is never ending right now for chips, why did Broadcom have bad results that resulted in a huge fall in their stock and the entire sector? NVIDIA, everybody went down because of Broadcom. I don't understand. There's just the market is not rational. Well, that's true. There's that.

1:03:07Megan Morrone:we are so beyond the the pe ratios right now it's true the market is basically fandom yeah you're gonna buy spacex man you will buy anything oh yeah spacex is gonna make money even though it it really shouldn't it absolutely shouldn't but neither should tesla the tesla's is so ridiculous that it should not be valued at what it is but it is because people aren't using those memes anymore just watch videos i see about chinese cars and you know they're doomed

1:03:36Ant Pruitt:oh gosh yes actually there was a big story in the times today about it's just a matter of time before chinese cars make it into the united states in some form or fashion apparently they're approaching the trump administration saying well if we built factories in the united states to build byd vehicles would it be okay then and he's wide open to this he says as long as you create jobs in the U.S., fine with me. Well, you can see traces of Geely in the new Volvo that people are talking about, the, I think, XC60. Well, yeah, the Polestar is, in fact, a Chinese Volvo collaboration. Yeah. Actually, Jammer B loves his X, what is it, X60?

1:04:19Ant Pruitt:XC60. He's very happy with it. Also, Microsoft announced Project Solara in the weirdest way possible it looks exactly like uh amazon echo let me make this go full screen and in this there's this weird liminal look to the video everybody's face is in darkness um yeah in fact i think microsoft was was really doubling down on the kids call it liminal the dream space. And so this is not an actual product from Microsoft. It's an experiment called Solara that will be in not just an Amazon Echo style device, but a Gentic AI in a card, in all sorts of devices. I hate concept cards. I want something I can buy now that's real now.

1:05:12Ant Pruitt:I hate them. This is basically, see, it's on your ID badge. It's an echo-like device. But really what they're saying is agentic AI will be ubiquitous. Yeah. But everybody's in shadow. Isn't that weird? It's creepy. That's the AI future. Well, because the people aren't important. Right, exactly. It's people. This is AI primacy. This is exactly what I was talking about. This is Leo's dream. This is my dream. There we go. Like somebody in the advertising department You know, do you miss Plato's Cave?

1:05:51Megan Morrone:Oh, that's my favorite. Oh, I use that in homilies all the time. Plato's Cave? Plato's Cave. Tell us the story of Plato's Cave. So imagine you and a group of people have spent your entire life in a cave. And you are chained facing the wall of the cave. And the entrance of the cave is behind you. So you have no idea what the outside world looks like or what it entails. However, you can see shadows. you can see shadows from things moving around outside and from those shadows you create a narrative with your fellow prisoners of what must be out there one day you get released you and you alone are unshackled and you make your way out of the cave and now you can actually see with your own eyes exactly what's happening out there so you have now the truth which is nowhere near what you the narrative that you made up with your fellow cave dwellers when you were in the cave now Imagine trying to go back into the cave and explain to everyone else that what we thought was happening outside wasn't actually the truth.

1:06:52Megan Morrone:How difficult would it be for you to explain to those people who still don't have that experience that their ideas, their thought processes were completely wrong? It's a fantastic thought experiment that can go in so many different ways, whether you're trying to teach people about the nature of understanding or the nature of the transfer of information or the nature of human understanding. It's a lot of fun. And how does this apply to AI? The faces in shadow. Oh, they were the shadows. They were the shadows on the walls of Plato's cave. Like basically, yeah, I'm thinking the advertisers thinking, do you miss Plato's cave?

1:07:31And do you miss those creepy palm phone ads with the creepy ballerina who looked at you at the end? Oh, yeah. Remember the palm phone? Yeah. This is not their first time, is it?

1:07:43Megan Morrone:If this continues, I might actually go live in a cave. We've got a couple in the backyard. Bring on the shadows. Yeah, that's right.

1:07:51Ant Pruitt:Microsoft also announced an agent, I guess, called Scout. which is confusing because Google's is called Spark Spark Spark and Scout. Maybe they'll be friends. Sounds like two dogs.

1:08:03Megan Morrone:Yeah. Two little Jack Russell Terriers. Sounds like the sequel to Kill a Mockingbird.

1:08:08Ant Pruitt:Yeah, I was about to say, like, Scout from Kill a Mockingbird. Bird. Oh, yeah. Yeah. They announced seven new A.I. models. Seven. Seven. What? Tell them. Why not? They do have a reasoning model, which is a 35 B with a teensy weensy. By the way, this is what I don't like about Quinn is the context window. 128K context window. It's too small. That's like my house born one.

1:08:37Megan Morrone:That's kind of specialized, I guess. Did they at least name the seven models Sleepy, Dopey? I want Grumpy.

1:08:46Ant Pruitt:Is there a Grumpy model? Actually, my agent is the Grumpy model, I think. Lots more stuff. they have a hardware chip the uh the majorana they announced their second generation majorana which is a quantum computing chip it contains qubits ah yes you want that is that the one done in partnership with ibm uh i don't know ibm is big into the quantum computer isn't it as is google um yeah as is google there is there seems to be a convergence with all these companies In fact, they've all decided that we're going to have some sort of piece of hardware, whether it's glasses, a pendant, a watch. Do you ever use your little DeepSeek thing?

1:09:35My Jeff had you got. Which one? The thing that Jeff had you got, the little. Harper made him get that. Oh, this thing.

1:09:46Ant Pruitt:Oh, yeah, I love it. So this, you connect this to the Wi-Fi and then it connects to China.

1:09:54Ant Pruitt:has Steve yelled at you for this no no no nobody's yelled at me in fact somebody wrote me a letter saying what is the name of that I said I don't recommend it they said no no I want it um it's an ESP 32 so it's it's eminently programmable I I might uh I might just make it into my my agent uh but for now you can ask deep secret questions I haven't asked about Tiananmen Square though actually that's a good question yeah i should i should try that um so uh is is this uh just groupthink is this just or is this all make a lot of sense and they're all on the right track are we going to be all wearing little ai pendants and things i mean we already do they're called our phones yeah we carry that and my watch i can talk to my watch and talks back sort of and we know

1:10:43Megan Morrone:these tech companies aren't original anymore. They just copy each other already.

1:10:46Ant Pruitt:No, no, I know. I know. All right, let's take a break. I'm going to go just talk to my grumpy model for a little bit when we come back. Apple's big announcements tomorrow. We'll get a little crystal ball gazing with Father Robert Ballasier, the digital Jesuit, where it is now Midnight in the Vatican. That's a movie title.

1:11:09Megan Morrone:Start of the day for me. Midnight in the Vatican. That is such a good movie title. Ooh, I like it.

1:11:15Ant Pruitt:That's Joey Davila, our screenwriter, developer advocate at netfoundry.io and Jeff Jarvis, who is unaffiliated. No, he is a host of Intelligent Machines. You also do AI, the AI Inside podcast with Jason Howell. It's a wonderful podcast. And the author of many great books, including the Gutenberg Parenthesis and the new one coming out in August. Hot Type, a hot book for the hottest month of the year up here in the northern hemisphere. Our show today brought to you by Zip Recruiter. You know, according to CNBC, nearly half of hiring managers say, this is interesting, something you might want to keep in mind if you're a job seeker, a candidate's enthusiasm about the job is the most important factor when considering them for a job.

1:12:05Ant Pruitt:Their enthusiasm. That makes sense. You want to hire somebody who wants to work with you. well if you need to hire for your business how can you separate the candidates we're really excited about your opportunity from the ones that are just yeah zip recruiter zip recruiter has a new feature that quickly lets you see the most interested qualified candidates first so you meet the right people faster and now you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com twitch zip recruiter smart matching technology connects you with qualified candidates instantly. ZipRecruiter's new feature puts the most interested qualified candidates at the top of your list.

1:12:45Ant Pruitt:Candidates can tell you in their own words why they're interested in your job. No wonder ZipRecruiter is the number one rated hiring site based on G2. Use ZipRecruiter and find enthusiastic talent fast. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day and now you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com slash twit. That's ziprecruiter.com slash twit. Meet your match on ziprecruiter. Thanks, ziprecruiter, so much for supporting this week in tech. They've been with us a long time now. I think it must be almost 10 years. We love that. We love that. Tomorrow, I'm going to have to get up.

1:13:30Ant Pruitt:Micah Sargent and I are going to be covering Apple's WWDC, We're at Worldwide Developers Conference Keynote at 10 a.m. Pacific, 1 p.m. Eastern. That's 1800 UTC. We will not be streaming it in our normal channels. Like right now, we're streaming on YouTube, Twitch, X, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Kik. We do that with all of our live shows. We can't do that with keynotes. Well, certainly with Apple keynotes. The last time we did that, they tried to get us kicked off of YouTube. So I don't want to get kicked off of YouTube. so we will be doing our usual coverage but it will be club only it'll be a private event if you're not in the club you might want to join it for tomorrow you could there is i think still a two-week trial so you can just pretend to join it uh twit.tv slash club twit it's a nice way to support uh independent podcasting uh i think this is going to be one of the most interesting wwdc's in years remember two years ago they foolishly pre-announced products they never shipped they still haven't shipped a year ago they apologized this year well it's going to be a big question will they ship those siri features that they've been promising in the intervening years they've made a deal with google apparently paying them a billion dollars a month for gemini is a month or a year no it's a year a billion dollars a year for access to gemini now though the rumor is at first apple said you'll be running the ai on either on your phone and if it can't run on your phone in our own specially designed private data centers in the backyard yeah well now they're saying

1:15:14Megan Morrone:okay data center it's going to be google's data center which are actually x ai's data centers because google is renting capacity from x ai but apple says but don't worry we're going to encrypt

1:15:25Ant Pruitt:everything they won't know what you're doing yeah i don't know if that if that's true that's going to really change the story a little bit that you'll be running on elon's data centers really

1:15:38Megan Morrone:will be paying elon 900 million dollars a month which still doesn't put xai into the green so

1:15:48Ant Pruitt:no but they're making 20 million dollars a month oh no wait that's wrong they're losing money aren't they? Yeah.

1:15:54Megan Morrone:They're losing a billion dollars a month, even with Anthropic paying $1.25 billion a month for service. Now Google is going to be paying$900 million a month for service. They're still going to be losing at least$100 million a month and their bills are going to go up. So it's probably going to be closer to$400 to$500 million a month.

1:16:12Ant Pruitt:And this is why the S &P 500 said that Anthropic, OpenAI, and SpaceX cannot be on their index for a year. We don't want your tarnish to rip off.

1:16:27Megan Morrone:It's starting to feel more like, do you remember WeWork? This feels like WeWork. Yeah, for computers. Yeah.

1:16:36Ant Pruitt:Well, we'll be very interested to see what Apple announces as far. I think, would it be, so a couple of things to mention about this. It'll be Tim Cook's last WWDC keynote. He is retiring in September or actually being kicked upstairs to the board. John Ternus will be taking over as CEO in September. His first keynote will be the iPhone announcement. There's some question of whether we'll even see John Ternus on stage. I suspect we will. In fact, I bet you Apple makes a video. They like to start these things with goofy videos. They like to have continuity.

1:17:10Megan Morrone:Yeah. And also, can we just say that Tim Cook deserves credit for what he's done since jobs went away? I mean, he really has done wonders for Apple.

1:17:20Ant Pruitt:He's made Apple a$4 trillion company. That ain't bad. Some say, you know, on the momentum that Steve created, there have been a few things that are Tim Cook kind of signature products like the Siri that never was. I guess the watch is still Steve and Johnny's, but it's Tim who recognized that the watch was going to be ultimately best used as a health device and really focused it on health. So he gets some credit. Here's the question I have about Apple. Will they end up being seen as a smarter one because they didn't need to build a foundation model. It's commodity. We can get models from anywhere.

1:18:00We can pay Google for it. It doesn't really matter. What we have is the relationship to our users. Are they really behind? Or are they

1:18:08Megan Morrone:saving a bucket load of money? Except so one of Apple's core tenants is they must own that the technologies that are most important for their services. So this kind of breaks that this breaks it in a big way.

1:18:21Ant Pruitt:Yeah, yeah. And by the way, that is Tim's signature achievement is the release of Apple Silicon, the move from Intel to Apple chips. John Ternus, by the way, was the guy in charge of that. And I think that's his this is his reward for doing such a good job but uh that that is something apple did that was it's funny turned out to be very good for ai local ai that's why they can't keep oh yeah minis or studios in stock you're running that you're running your quen model on a mac mini right uh i'm running mine on actually uh m5 uh m5 power book as soon as as soon as i got the uh I got a, at the job, I have a hardware stipend.

1:19:01And as soon as the, nice. And so I bought the M5 and I bought a matching one for my wife because I told her, you know what? When the ship, when the ship comes in, everybody rides. A rising tide floats all boats. So she has a, we have his and hers, a 64 gig M5.

1:19:20Ant Pruitt:Nice. Nice. Those, those MacBook pros are very nice. and it turns out that the machine language processing units in those are very good and speaking of memory bandwidth the memory bandwidth is superb because it's unified memory yeah it's it's really good for that and it's it's fantastic i highly recommend it if you want to get into if you want to get yeah if you want to get into software development and in fact actually my old laptop an M1 is now the sacrificial open claw machine so I've got yeah that's smart open claw possibly Hermes I'm also looking into Hermes I love Hermes that's my agent of choice Hermes and I I actually divorced Claudette and yeah I married Hermes I call her Quicksilver it's such a romance forever divorce or annulment well we never did consummate so i guess it's okay then okay because that's that's what not consummating is one of the uh one of the uh excuses that you can use for an annulment and it's the least embarrassing of the bunch i think mental incompetence padre

1:20:40Megan Morrone:is that still uh yeah is there is there prima nocta in llms i can't oh yeah oh yeah i uh the

1:20:48Ant Pruitt:The right of the noble. Yes, I am the noble one. They're just tools. I learned that from you, Joey.

1:20:59Ant Pruitt:So I don't really actually care so much if Apple puts AI on the iPhone. I use the iPhone, but when I press the action button on the iPhone, it calls Quicksilver, calls my little Hermes. When I want to, I can do everything, you know, and anthropic and if i wanted to if uh you know if i want to visit the old girlfriend if i i've got all of the ais on here but look this is the little hermes logo the little yeah that weird alice in wonderland logo and i can actually uh talk with it and interact with it oh ready for an update good but what if you could do all of that offline leo well i can if i choose quen well offline you mean not going to a frontier model you mean locally yeah yeah I mean it's still online because I'm obviously my phone is not running them eight so I don't know if the agent the if the I mean Apple's gonna do a genetic probably with with Siri of some kind they won't call it that you're is that what you're asking if like Siri were smart enough to do all that

1:22:02Megan Morrone:if Siri were smart enough and if you were carrying enough local processing that well maybe I am run a model completely offline i mean i that's the idea in my current job that would be very attractive

1:22:13Ant Pruitt:yes because uh you you've mentioned this before but not on this show that uh the uh the catholic church has its own models they're yes we do purely private local models and i've got a little uh it's

1:22:25Megan Morrone:it's not a ggx but i've got an an acer uh veritron which is using the blackwell chip oh so it does it's got a petaflop worth of performance four terabytes uh storage you win 128 gigabytes of store of memory so it's pretty good wow now and are you running the vatican's models on that we are so we are we have developed our own models so we're not using off-the-shelf models anymore because they've been specifically trained on our sources and they're private and they're private right completely private and which means that we can use them in what we call internal forum cases So when it's information that's very sensitive, we have the ability to summarize, to translate, to otherwise transform that information without it ever touching the internet, which is important because canonically we're not allowed to.

1:23:14What did it take to build those?

1:23:18Megan Morrone:A lot. Trade secret.

1:23:22Ant Pruitt:Yeah, a lot. Did you train them from scratch? Yep. What? What? A complete scratch.

1:23:31Megan Morrone:It was a lot harder than I thought it would be.

1:23:36Ant Pruitt:And when you trained it, what was the content you trained it on?

1:23:41Megan Morrone:So, we have several hundred years worth of texts that are specific to the Catholic Church. Have they been digitized? We were able to – all digital. So, everything has been digitized in our archives. And so, we were able to run that and say this – it learned our language, it learned our culture it learns does this speak latin does my question uh it does speak latin actually yes uh that's one of the very first things that we had to train it to do we had to train it to help translate some of the other sources uh and so it's it's a completely closed model it does not use any information from outside of the catholic church and like the washington posts ask a ask the Washington Post AI, our model has no problem saying, I cannot answer that.

1:24:27Megan Morrone:That was extremely important for us because that's how you stop it from hallucinating. Once it gets down to a level of probability that's no longer acceptable, it just says, I don't have enough information to answer that question.

1:24:39Ant Pruitt:See, this was easy because the church already had its sole document. It's known as the Ten Commandments. Exactly. We've got our foundation. We've got our architecture already we just had to build around it 10 commandments.md it's really it's it's simple yeah and and the beatitudes really the beatitudes are a little more yeah yeah yeah yeah and something about uh rich man and the eye of a needle and you know it's so we've we've got the old testament

1:25:04Megan Morrone:llm and then the new testament they battle it out yeah that whole time must be scary fire and brimstone paging dan brown you can you can now you have enough material now to write the da vinci vibe code does it we don't yeah we we don't have an anti-matic machine under saint peter's but we may have a lot of compute power but and it probably when you're coding it uses deep c plus plus right never mind can you vibe code on it can it code or is it red c plus plus that's not one of the functions that we built into it yeah that's interesting so yeah

1:25:43Ant Pruitt:you could actually make it much simpler because there's a whole lot of stuff you don't care to do correct does it yeah we're not trying to make a general intelligence can it use mcp servers or is that not a good idea uh i mean he could but i would not be a favorable result uh probably yeah right you're thinking uh leo are you thinking about my too many cats mcp server yes how many how many cats is a venial sin how many cats is a mortal sin

1:26:11Megan Morrone:oh we could do tokens sins instead of tokens sale of indulgences are back baby oh no we've used up our indulgence budget for the LLM this month

1:26:24Ant Pruitt:that's okay it's one of those what is a year it's called it's a we can party like it's 1599 it's a jubilee year isn't it there we go You won't use that. Jubilee year, the tokens are free. So, all right. We're going to all go to hell, except for you, Father. But what specific tasks? Is it mostly about the 100 years worth of documents? More than 100.

1:26:52Megan Morrone:Right. So it needs to be able to quickly identify documents that are germane to any questions that get asked of it. It needs to be able to combine those with contemporary documents from the Catholic Church. So it's kind of a big rag.

1:27:07Ant Pruitt:Correct. Correct. Yeah.

1:27:08Megan Morrone:But also translations. So it's very good at language translations. We have meetings here where we'll have 19, 20 different languages. This is really good at going back and forth with simultaneous real-time translation. Oh, so it's used as that. Oh, that's really interesting. Did you use anything outside as a base to build on? Not originally.

1:27:30Ant Pruitt:Speech to text is challenging. So I would imagine. attention yeah there are some very good libraries you could use for stuff like that safely but again

1:27:39Megan Morrone:what we found is it's it's much easier and much more effective to isolate a particular need rather than building a model and then trying to figure out what it can do yeah because i think it's a model for what to do with with medicine yes and physics and other areas it's this is the part of the on the cone argument and there's some really amazing general intelligence right there are some

1:28:01Ant Pruitt:really amazing specialized AIs in all those fields. It's really, it's really, or, you know, AlphaFold is a good example. I mean, you wouldn't use AlphaFold to write your thesis, but you might use it to fold proteins. I mean, yeah, it's, these are very specialized. Did you find, so, were you involved in the training of this thing? It sounds like you were. Yeah, a little bit. I know that it's a group. I know that nobody takes credit. It's a big group. There's a lot of us. It's a big group and no one person can take credit. But what an interesting... What's the demand out there in any given parish church for saying this stuff's going on, I want to know about it, I want to do things with it?

1:28:40Megan Morrone:No, it's entirely internal right now. It has not...

1:28:45Ant Pruitt:By the way, the Veritron is, Darren Oakey says, is a DJX Spark.

1:28:50Megan Morrone:It's an NVIDIA GB10. So it's a Blackwell. It's a Blackwell.

1:28:54Ant Pruitt:It's a GB10, yeah.

1:28:56Megan Morrone:Yeah. I kind of wanted to get a Verirubin, but those are not available. Not yet, right? so do you guys have a babble fish padre yes that's what he's made the babble fish yeah wow very it's it's speaking in tongues actually the the most difficult language right now you you probably would not guess this is spanish really because of the accents the spanish language is easy. The accents, it's having

1:29:28Ant Pruitt:so much trouble. You mean the spoken word accents like Athelian versus Mexican versus Venezuelan.

1:29:36Megan Morrone:Versus Bolivian versus Spanish, Spanish. Is it harder than Arabic? All the variation in Arabic? Yeah, Arabic's actually pretty simple. Japanese is simple. Actually, Latin would be very simple. Latin is very rigorous. The syllables are straightforward. The language is tricky for us anyway, but yeah, the syllables, Mandarin, is straightforward. Actually, Mandarin might be tough because of the tones. Right? Well, they're still a written language. Computers can hear the tones much better than humans can. I can't hear them. So it can distinguish ma and ma

1:30:11Ant Pruitt:very easily. Ma.

1:30:15Megan Morrone:Did you say you don't have Tagalog yet, Padre? But we are the most popular. We are the most Catholics. We are the most Catholics. It wasn't a demand language. We don't have a lot of documents in Tagalog. We need to work on that. Yeah.

1:30:34Ant Pruitt:I'll get to it. I think you've got a critical mass right here. Do you get native speakers in to train it? No, no. We don't need to do that. You've got recordings. Can it make a podcast like Noble GLM can? I think a Latin podcast would be so cool.

1:30:50Megan Morrone:Oh, actually, that would be fun. That would be fun, wouldn't it? Just as a thought experiment, I would take... Yes. Oh, a podcast translator. Take any podcast and put it and it makes it in Latin with the voice of that speaker. Oh, yeah. That would be so cool. I can do that. Yeah. That should be possible. If Hey Jen can translate. Yeah. Questa wicis mene in. Semene in. What's tech? Yeah. What's tech in Latin? Technologio. Technologio.

1:31:22Ant Pruitt:I'm sorry. I hope it's late night in the Vatican and nobody's listening. We are talking twit with Father Robert Ballasier, Joey Davila from NetFoundry and.io, and Jeff Jarvis will be back on Wednesday. Paris will be back, I hope. Yeah, we hope, we hope, we hope. We hope. She's been on a deadline with Consumer Reports. A never-ending deadline, poor dear. We do have a very interesting interview, and Joey, you'll be interested in this. uh jeffrey connell quinnell who uh is the founder of noose research the people who make hermes coming back we interviewed him way back when i loved him i thought he was great but that was back when they were doing their own models they were trying to do ethical models kind of like what you've been doing robert uh but what we didn't know at the time is that they had their own internal agent and then open claw came out and they looked at each other said you know ours is better.

1:32:20Ant Pruitt:And they decided to release Hermes. And I have to say, I think I'll be very interested what you think, Joey, but my experience is it's absolutely what you want. It's kind of a batteries included because it comes with more than 90 skills already built in and then plugins available for all sorts of things. It's got its own memory system. It's really nice. It's all right. I will have to give it an application. Anyway, Jeffrey Quinnell will be our guest on Wednesday. listen because he's great he's very interesting uh we will have more in just a bit on this week in tech our show today brought to you by i would show it to you but it's busy working our thinks canary you know why i plugged it back in because we got we found out that google sent us a message a couple of weeks ago saying you know there's uh somebody in your network in your google workspace We found out that there had been an intruder who broke in in January.

1:33:15Ant Pruitt:One of our employees got phished, got our credentials. Fortunately, apparently they did very little. They looked at some emails. I think they have such a big stack of workspaces that they've broken into that they don't, you know, they go, well, we'll get to it. They're working through them one by one. And we just lucked out that we weren't on the top of the pile. We got rid of them, fortunately, and we've got new protection. And one of the things that we have is Thinks Canary. Why do we need a Thinks Canary? It's that 121 days that passed between us getting cracked and us discovering that the hackers were in the network.

1:33:55Ant Pruitt:That's more than four months that they, fortunately they didn't do anything, but they could have done so much. The Thinks Canary is a honeypot that can be deployed in minutes. It can be almost anything you want. it could be mine is a Synology NAS I've mentioned this before but it's very easy to change it to anything you want including oh my gosh any a Windows server a Linux server it could have lit up like a Christmas tree every service on it turned on or just pick some you know critical ones like RDP or file sharing that you know a bad guy cannot resist it could be an SSH server it can be a skated device it can be anything and your thinks canaries can also generate what they call canary tokens little files they look like the real thing like a word document or a spreadsheet or google sheet you can put them anywhere on your local drives but i you know i now have a bunch of them on our google drive they look like the real deal i have a google sheet called payroll information for instance the thing is bad guys cannot resist them and the minute the bad guy tries to crack my fake internal ssh server or tries to open that sheet that google sheet that says payroll information i will find out i will know i will the thinks canary will immediately tell me there's someone in the network you got a problem no false alerts just the alerts that matter and any way you want.

1:35:26Ant Pruitt:Email, SMS, Slack, Teams, webhooks. They have an API so you can write your own. Syslog, of course, any way you want. The point is when you get that notification, you know there's somebody in the network. Just choose a profile for your Thinks Canary device. Register it with the hosted console. It does the monitoring. It does the notifications. And then you can just sit back. You can relax. An attacker who has breached your network, a malicious insider, and other adversaries make themselves known by accessing your thinks canary in fact i was talking to the founder one of the founders haroon uh when i was at our sec uh and and he said they may even because hackers are by trade pretty suspicious they assume everybody's as evil as they are they may be looking at that going hmm is that really payroll information he said but they but that's what they're there for.

1:36:18Ant Pruitt:They cannot resist. They will open that file. They will attack that server. They just can't resist. That's what they're there to do. And the minute they do, you got them. Visit canary.tools.twit. If you're a big operation, a bank, a casino backend, you might have hundreds. You certainly would need one for every virtual network, every VLAN. We have a handful. so let's give you a price example$7 ,500 a year you get five things canaries you get your own hosted console you get upgrades you get support you get maintenance and actually if you use the code twit in the how did you hear about us box you're going to get 10 % off the price and not just for the first year but for as long as you own your canaries now you can always return your things canary there's no risk to this they have a two-month 60-day money-back guarantee for a full refund.

1:37:10Ant Pruitt:I have to tell you, they've been advertising with us for 10 years, practically since they started. And during all the years that we've partnered with Thinks Canary, that refund guarantee has not even once, never been claimed. Because, and I know this because we have them, once you get Thinks Canaries on your network, you're going to say, how did I live without it? Visit canary.tools slash twit, enter the code twit in the how did you hear about us box. and uh we thank them so much for their support they've been with us a long time we really appreciate it canary.tools slash you might say well how leo how come you didn't know for under 21 days because to do the ad i stupidly disconnected the things canary and all the canary tokens call home when there's no home because i was holding it up remember in the ads i used to hold it up not anymore so if you see a spreadsheet in the google drive named payroll information you know you should open that it's got great stuff in there canary.tools slash twit don't forget to use the offer code twit wish we'd had it i stupidly disconnected it it's my fault i blame myself all right so um just to finish up with the uh wwdc keynote tomorrow we will be covering it we we don't expect new hardware we think that that's all going to come in the fall although there is an interesting story uh coming out of the supply chain that uh samsung has already ramped up manufacturer of these uh oled screens for the new laptop the 14 and 16 inch are they touch screens perhaps they're touch screens and uh this will be on the m6 chip the the theory being if they're already manufacturing them for august delivery that it might well be a September announcement, which is earlier than we thought.

1:39:03Ant Pruitt:Apple's going to have a very big September. They're going to have that iPhone Ultra, the folding phone. We're starting to see demos of that. Apple will not talk about this tomorrow, so don't get your hopes up. They will be talking about iOS 27, Mac OS 27, and all the other OSs, Watch TV, iPad OS 27. And undoubtedly, we'll spend much of the time talking about AI.

1:39:29Megan Morrone:and Siri do you think there is a market among Apple fans for the touchscreen I mean I love I don't want laptops but I don't want it yeah I did want the OLED so I love my I have an OLED

1:39:40Ant Pruitt:thinkpad and I bought it specifically for the OLED because uh I those are my favorite screens but I also specifically did not get the touch one because I'll let them touch a laptop and yesterday Lisa was showing me a spreadsheet she was touching the cell don't touch it She's been using her iPad too much.

1:39:59Megan Morrone:But how good is Mac OS on a touch interface anyway? Because that's not built for touch.

1:40:05Ant Pruitt:That's going to be interesting. So maybe this will be a hint tomorrow because they will talk about new features in Mac OS 27. And they're going to have to do something to address that. Similarly, for a folding phone, they're going to have to do something to address it in iOS 27. So we'll get some hints about what they're thinking, I think. It would require some interesting tweaks because mac os is specifically optimized for a mouse and cursor that is rather precise fingers you know while nice and super convenient especially my larger and you know for the longest time the argument for not you not having a touchscreen mac was what they called the gorilla arm effect right and that is that it's just kind of hard to hold your arm up against the I'm with the screen for a long time.

1:40:52I don't really want to. Maybe occasionally I'll run my finger. I'm going through a long list of something. And there's carpal tunnel that gets to. I'm really glad that by my. You have a touch Chromebook. I've done it. Of course. Of course you do. Yes.

1:41:05Megan Morrone:I find it healthier because I switch from keyboard and mouse to touch. I go back and forth, back and forth. So it's not the same motion. Well, an apple. That's exactly.

1:41:13Ant Pruitt:Sells to the iPad, which is a touch.

1:41:16Megan Morrone:Yeah. Is it going to be an iOS app? I would not be surprised. No. If in a couple of weeks, as people start looking through all the notes and actually decompiling the source from some of the software packages, they're going to find the hooks for the touchscreen.

1:41:31Ant Pruitt:And there'll be hints on exactly how it's going to be implemented. That's usually how that stuff leaks out. But I am still most interested in what they do with AI. I like AI. I know it's not fashionable on college campuses these days, but I like AI.

1:41:48Megan Morrone:So can we stop calling it Apple intelligence? Is that dead now? Or are they still going to try to push that?

1:41:53Ant Pruitt:No, that's what it means, man. Oh, yeah, that's what. And I think the idea of Apple embracing this and putting AI in a billion pockets will make a big dent. This will change people's point of view. And maybe Apple knows people don't like it. I don't know. There's definitely a backlash, a tech lash.

1:42:13Megan Morrone:See, I think Apple's going to come at it differently. Apple has never been about selling raw services or the promises of a technology. They sell features, specific things that you want to do. I think that's how they can do their AI well, which is, I'm not going to sell you the tech. I'm going to sell you a skill. I'm going to show you an example of how AI works. I won't even call it AI, but you're going to love it so much that you're going to buy it. And they're good at that. They're very good at that. They're product. They make products. Yeah, the iPod, for instance, they never talked about the size of the storage.

1:42:47They said a thousand songs because that's really what matters. That's a good point.

1:42:53Megan Morrone:Yeah, that's a good point. My mom doesn't care about anything on her iPhone except for the fact that she can do FaceTime with her granddaughter.

1:43:01Ant Pruitt:That's it. And unfortunately, the things they've shown in the past haven't really been too compelling, like Genmoji or the Image Playground. These are awful. and people are still mocking the ai summaries that they get in their notifications they're they're crazy will siri still be a laughingstock i mean and that's the other thing people think siri is a moron and she is i mean if they're really doing a tight immigration

1:43:30Megan Morrone:integration with gemini siri is going to smarten up by a lot exponential level i mean it's fantastic The question is, will they still call it Siri? Will they call it Siri? Of course. You think? They're stubborn. Oh, yeah. That's theirs. That's their technology. That's their branding. They're not going to admit it. Even though people hate it. Apple doesn't think you hate anything that Apple does. They'll never admit that. That would be a... I think they should release their new AI product and call it the Newton. Just a flex. There we go. Yes. Just a flex and say, you know what? we're going to take one of our biggest failures and make it something wonderful there we go i did have um gemini last night lisa and i were talking i don't know if i can show this though let me see

1:44:23Ant Pruitt:uh and i asked it gemini if i should dye my hair

1:44:31Ant Pruitt:uh and wait yeah i'm thinking probably not a good idea did it show you what you would like look like you want to see yeah you want to see what i would look like if i dyed my hair the chat room could probably do it for you too yeah well so but the point being that i didn't ask siri okay i i immediately went to what i thought would be the best images so i gave it this picture oh no okay so this is what i would look like oh no it's probably not the best starting picture maybe that's the problem and then i said well that's not good so then i said what if i died at black and then lisa said you look like joe pesci so i thought okay what if you get how about give me superman hair do i amuse you oh the spit curl oh very nice superman hair the corn sweat look like it yeah yeah okay then so what about a beatles haircut what if i had black hair with

1:45:29Megan Morrone:the beatles haircut is that is that ringo or is that no that's john the interesting thing is uh

1:45:34Ant Pruitt:gemini's really good at doing this right this is this is uh this is if what would i look like with a toupee apparently i don't know you know what there's a certain javier bardem vibe i'm getting you know why we were watching the burroughs and uh uh molina is alfred molina is in it okay and He's my age, and he's got jet black hair. And I said he dyed it, right? And we couldn't decide. So I said, well, would I look better? And then this is if I went blonde. I don't think I'm going to... This is weird.

1:46:11Megan Morrone:This is weird. But I actually like that over the black.

1:46:14Ant Pruitt:Yeah, I do too.

1:46:15Megan Morrone:I prefer that. I'm not doing any of the above. It's got Conan O 'Brien vibes. Yes. That's what it is. Oh, I should ask for Conan's hair.

1:46:22Ant Pruitt:Oh, there we go. yeah let me give me so the point i'm making is not so much it's just really good at this kind of stuff yeah but uh i know the toupee it's the javier bardem and the apple tv version of cape fear that i'm getting by the way who is that creepy have you watched that yet no not yet it's

1:46:42Megan Morrone:on my list oh man what is this what is this so there's a movie way back when with robert de niro

1:46:49Ant Pruitt:cape fear and then well yeah yeah robert mitchin first yes okay here i am by the way it did that fast oh wow here i am with conan o 'brien okay no no no oh my god i feel like i'm in a bus station right now the clown carrot top um as i say oh yeah there was a robert mitchin movie uh cape fear and then and then scorsese remade it it's exactly as if it were a hitchcock film and that was with De Niro, and he was very good at that. But this one is Javier Bardem. It's really, really good. And Amy, what's her name, is in it. I'm such an old man now.

1:47:34Megan Morrone:See, I only watch all of this when I go back to the United States. So I go back for three times for about a month a time, and my parents get all the streaming surfaces, so I just binge everything. Okay, but yeah, that's on Apple TV, the Cape Fear, this new one. Yes. And I think it's quite good. It's been terrifying. Actually, on Apple TV, I really enjoyed Pluribus. Oh, yes. I love that. Yes. Excellent. I really enjoyed that.

1:47:58Ant Pruitt:So we were watching The Burroughs, which is basically Pluribus. Yeah. Yeah. No, I've heard that's very good. It's like, it's just, I don't. Anyway, anyway.

1:48:06Megan Morrone:Isn't, wait, I think my sister called Burroughs like stranger things for old people. Yeah. Because it was the same. Duffer Brothers.

1:48:13Ant Pruitt:Duffer Brothers. But they're living in a place that's kind of like the Villages, only it's called the Burroughs. Oh, my God. Oh, the Villages. It's like the L-Drop golf carts. That's down the road from me. And the beautiful thing is, it's like the Main Street is like Main Street USA in Disney, except the music they pump is classic rock. Classic rock or boat rock? No, no, no. this was this was well actually boarock fits in there but when i was there they were playing all of boston's original album so that's what's going on in the burrows too the music is like springsteen and uh because we're of that age now yeah we are what happened so if it's stranger things

1:49:00Megan Morrone:for old people does that mean in burrows vecna is just like chlamydia or syphilis yeah exactly Because remember, the villages has an unusual, possibly the highest STD rate for a medium-sized city. By far. These people are from close. Seriously. Untreated STDs in the villages is the highest rate in the country.

1:49:25Ant Pruitt:Yeah. Okay. Jeff and I are both, well, we're not moving there, I guess. Yeah, and actually, if you search YouTube, there are a bunch of real estate videos promoting life in the villages. Well, there's a famous documentary that's hysterical about the villages. So, yeah, I have been there with my wife, and aside from the staff, we were the youngest people at the seafood restaurant by far, and it was wild. My parents lived in Sun City Center, where by law, you cannot live there unless you're 55. You have to be 55 minimum to buy property there.

1:50:02Megan Morrone:My parents live in a Sun City near Vegas. And they have so many activities. There are a lot of clubs. And last I heard, there was a three-year waiting list for the cheerleading squad. Jesus. Huh. Hmm. Yeah. What are they cheerleading? The football team? I have no idea, actually. And there's a lot of Morris dancing or clogging clubs. Oh, yeah, sure. That doesn't seem to go hand in hand with arthritis. That sounds painful. No idea. Maybe they eat a lot of glucosamine. I don't know. The golf carts, man, the golf carts. But a very weird city and very nice golf carts. These golf carts are nicer than my car.

1:50:50Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's part of the. I saw one with air conditioning. Yeah. Oh, and the best part is the crime blotter in the villages. It's not teenagers. It's the 30 and 40 something children of seniors who failed to launch. And it's all like petty theft, shoplifting and golf cart DUI.

1:51:18Megan Morrone:It is a fascinating community. Yes. I always wanted a little bit of that in Vegas. I wanted to make a sequel to Seinfeld, which was the town where the parents lived. Del Boca Vista. Exactly. And it would be a sitcom because Burroughs is not a sitcom. Burroughs is nasty. Yeah. Spooky. It's an art. I think there's a sitcom. It is. My father always called it. It's called The Golden Girls.

1:51:45Ant Pruitt:And it's been done. Yeah. True. True. But you know what? Now that boomers are, our little demographic bulge is getting up there. I suppose it's time to bring back all those old folks shows. I guess that's what Netflix is. You can star Jerry Seinfeld now. Yeah, he's trying out. Let's take a break. I was going to do another.

1:52:09Megan Morrone:Because we're old and we need a break now. We don't want to talk about STDs anymore.

1:52:13Ant Pruitt:The only bad thing about these breaks is I don't get to go to the bathroom, but you do. So take advantage of it. There we go. i'll just suffer think he's thinking depends right now you know what if depends wants to buy ads just let me know that would be the kiss of death right if you start doing depends on a podcast nobody's gonna ever listen to the show again uh our show today brought to you by melissa the trusted data quality expert since 1985 and a longtime sponsor of our shows we you know what it's another company it's been with us about a decade i think maybe more uh and that's because inaccurate data is everywhere it doesn't just hinder your company's operational efficiency it can also degrade the quality of your ai outputs right garbage in garbage out the ai models are only as reliable as the data that feeds them so whether you're managing uh customer relationships logistics internal analytics clean data is essential melissa's been solving data quality issues for going on 41 years now and this is what i love about them you know 41 years ago is probably zip codes and stuff like that but they do not rest in their laurels they are data scientists now they've hired some of the best data scientists and AI experts in the world and here's just some of what Melissa the modern Melissa can do for your business they have an alert service Melissa's alert service is the best way for companies to keep track of changes to their customer data in real time alerts for changes of address address updates property transactions hazard risks they also have something very cool it's very hard to do their matchup technology can do smart deduplication with non-exact matches.

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1:56:27Ant Pruitt:It's melissa.com slash twit, M-E-L-I-S-S-A.com slash twit. We thank them so much for their support of This Week in Tech. Wired Magazine, very interesting expose. They looked at code in an unreleased system that's already embedded in Meta's smart glasses for face recognition, designed to identify people via biometric data stored on users' phones. they have not enabled it but it's there it's in there wired found it it was added uh to meta's ai app over multiple updates this year the feature is internally called name tag this is something google is explicitly eschewed back with google glass right and uh but on the other hand ring and google nest doorbells now are starting to do this you're starting to see this more and more Are people getting used to the idea?

1:57:24Ant Pruitt:Or do you think this is the reason that Meta is keeping a secret is this is a non-starter?

1:57:29Megan Morrone:I think people are getting used to the idea that it's possible. I don't think people are accepting of that idea. I mean, this is why Meta has been very cagey about it. This is why Meta in hearings has basically said, we would be very careful about implementing this technology into our products. uh i think most of us understand that there's cameras on us everywhere no matter where we go we've seen it we see it on youtube we see it on the nightly news but the idea that someone could be specifically looking at us identifying us finding information about us just as we walk around outside i don't think we're ready for that as a society not yet um For what you have seen.

1:58:16Ant Pruitt:And yet it would be so useful. Yeah. No. Because I have a terrible memory for faces. I never, and it's embarrassing that I can't remember people's names. My sister is a retired minister, and I can't imagine how you keep, and if you don't know the name of the parishioner, you are in duty, right? Or my father was a sales guy. You're in a conference. I'm horrible, horrible faces and names. absolutely horrible i could never go i you know give me 12 students and it takes me weeks to get

1:58:47Megan Morrone:them straight if i get about 10 years older then i can just start calling everyone my daughter and my son there you go yes my child my child i'm not there yet i'm not there yet i'm not there you my brother or sister in christ yes always help you yeah well that's now a meme if you say that it's well yeah that's the thing my brother yeah my brother in the filipino world everyone you can't remember their name they're tita and tito yeah exactly just that's it i bet every language

1:59:18Ant Pruitt:because this has to be a universal issue is not remembering people's names right every language

1:59:25Megan Morrone:must have a default y 'all everyone here everyone here is but leo we know it wouldn't it wouldn't just be the names yeah benito's in manila he says everybody's boss it's bussing it's like what we say here everyone's yeah when i was a columnist in san francisco and they actually had my face on news racks and and and trucks and people come up to me and and i wouldn't know whether i'm supposed to know them or not oh yeah so that's what i i took on the horrible conceit of saying howdy because howdy has no ellipses okay in san francisco you don't say howdy leo you just say howdy howdy yeah howdy if you say hi there's a leo i've done that to cardinals and you've said howdy do a card feel good about no i say oh it's so i haven't seen you and i'm doing all those things when was the last time we saw each other wait we're working yeah you're trying to get context

2:00:18Ant Pruitt:this is the only reason that you should have a wife father robert i'm not saying any other reason but but lisa and i have it worked out she will say okay i don't know the name so just introduce yourself right away and then they will introduce themselves and they'll and then she will know their name it's very handy if you have a partner of any kind we heard no it's i'm leah what's your

2:00:39Megan Morrone:name cardinal we had a jesuit named paul locatelli who was the president of santa clara university and he had this incredible talent he knew every single face of every single graduate and every single parent he had ever met he could walk into a room cold and he knew your name he knew who your child was when they they attended the university and what they graduated it it was it was ridiculous i never figured out how he did it but he just had one of those memories now so the reason glasses

2:01:09Ant Pruitt:i could do that right the reason this this meta thing is troubling is because we have all for years been tagging people with their names yeah on facebook right and google google photos this And Meta, apparently, Wired's code review shows the name tag system is currently designed to pull face prints from Meta's servers and store them on your device. In your hands, on your face, not a big deal. In Palantir's hands? Yes. In Ice's hands? That's when it becomes really frightening.

2:01:45Megan Morrone:Which is why, for the last seven years, I've been poisoning both Facebook and Google with photos tagged with my names that aren't me. you are a master of fuzzing i yeah it's just i was a free free time project yeah is it does robert does robert redford have your name i mean who how do you choose who this no no no i just i put my name and i just use different faces just different faces yeah so the system doesn't know if you look in google for robert ballaser you'll get like 150 different people yeah they're yeah they're they're

2:02:16Ant Pruitt:they're quite different i am afraid that um the ship has sailed for me well yeah but you know what in your line of work you actually need you know it depends if you have public facing work if you uh and my line of work as well yeah no i we want our faces to be matched but maybe our habits we want to appear different which is why which is why i run that program called chaff which just does google searches on random dictionary words and that's why i get chicken mating harness ads all the time oh we talked about that last time yeah exactly like i think we named the show chicken mating harnesses yeah exactly exactly thanks i'm in vietnam so if i do searches it thinks i'm in

2:03:04Megan Morrone:vietnam it gives me local local uh answers for that so uh somebody in our youtube said if you

2:03:09Ant Pruitt:talk about ai anymore i'm leaving well i'm sorry but there's a show for you uh it's you know it's in the news for instance this was an ai week yeah the president uh this week signed an executive order seeking oversight of ai models nobody i don't know who thinks this is a good idea um they've softened it considerably it's voluntary it's voluntary it's only for 30 days before you release it he scrapped the uh the less voluntary 90-day order the idea being and i think it was really stimulated by anthropics mythos before an ai company can release a new model the government can should be able to check it to make sure it's not going to as if they would know

2:03:56Megan Morrone:what they're doing yeah they fired all the experts who would be able to go through a model and tell

2:04:01Ant Pruitt:you whether or not it's it's good if i mean okay so if none of that were true and you trusted the government. This seems like exactly the kind of thing government should do before. I mean, you can't release a vaccine without the government's approval. Right. Again, it's a general machine. A vaccine is meant to do one thing and you can test its efficacy against the body. Well, you test it for safety and efficacy. Right. This is a machine. You don't know what everybody's going to ask the machine to do, what malign things are going to be required of it. And thus, you cannot protect against all of them.

2:04:30Ant Pruitt:This is why we have underwriters laboratory checking electronics to make sure it's not Yeah, but they do one thing. Go on fire. Right. That's pretty straightforward. Is somebody going to come along and ask this to create a new weapon? Are they going to find a new way to insult Leo Laporte? You don't know. So there's no way. The issue with this is there's no way to ascertain the safety of a model. No. Not in 30 days. And the cyclical also makes clear. The idea to align it with human values is absurd, too, at the higher level. Right. not just the guardrails but also this notion that we're going to make uh the virtuous machine is hubris so you know when trump came into office because he was you know funded to some degree by you know mark andreessen and and and uh brockman the president of open ai i think lots of bucks he got into office the first thing he did was throw out biden's ai regulation or a it was really just an executive order so it didn't have much force of law either but he went into office kind of with the stated goal of opening it up for AI because that's how we're going to compete that's how we're going to make America great again is is you know beat the Chinese is by no no regulations limiting AI so doing this is almost a complete reversal and not the first one yet he's done it in such a way that it is so and it's so meaningless that it is isn't it it appeals to both sides it has the appearance of regulation without actually doing anything yeah this actually

2:06:10Megan Morrone:goes hand in hand with the other bit of news concerning the administration which is Trump is considering having the United States take ownership part ownership in these AI companies He wants a bit of the pie. Interestingly, Sam Altman proposed this from opening up. And Bernie Sanders is talking about a version of this as well. It's socialism. Yeah. It is socialism. Nationalizing industry. Yeah, that's funny.

2:06:38Ant Pruitt:But already the government has a 10 % stake in intel. Intel, yeah. I mean, there's a precedent for this. This was also Trump. This was actually, it's interesting because it was the CHIPS Act that Biden passed. but the but the president said well but for the money we're going to give you we want a stake in intel um when asked about this on air force one trump said there's something very interesting about it where it almost becomes a partnership with the american public it's like you make them partners in this revolution it would be a beautiful thing it would make them rich i don't

2:07:14Megan Morrone:know who them is in this um okay okay that was the same thing that happened when he signed the executive order making insider trading not illegal so yeah making them rich is not necessarily a good thing who do we want to make rich here yeah yeah you know what they say evil

2:07:33Ant Pruitt:is the root of all money i like it i like it uh the fcc as you know has banned all foreign routers Now the cable lobby, the National Cable Television Association, wants a waiver because, well, guess who installs most foreign-made routers in the home? The cable companies. That's where most people get their routers. Hell yeah.

2:07:59Megan Morrone:Do we even have a list of what routers would qualify? Because everything's made in China.

2:08:04Ant Pruitt:Well, right now, the only one not made in China is the Starlink router. But remember that Netgear got a waiver. Okay. Hero got a waiver. Oh, okay. So I'm good. Yeah. But the way you get the waiver is you just say, yeah, we're going to build these routers in the United States someday. Eventually. Eventually. Yeah, exactly. It might take us three years.

2:08:28Megan Morrone:Someday. But then it'll be done.

2:08:31Ant Pruitt:At least the FCC said you can continue to get software updates and firmware updates until January 2029. Jeez. It's like, okay.

2:08:41Megan Morrone:Let's talk about a security problem. I mean, okay, look, I understand the idea of securing the edge. Yes, let's secure all these routers. But even if you did that, all of the core is running on equipment made in China.

2:08:53Ant Pruitt:Yeah.

2:08:54Megan Morrone:So are you going to do that? Everything.

2:08:55Ant Pruitt:Because that's kind of important. When we were joking about this DeepSeek thing that I've, you know, this Chinese device that I connected to my Wi-Fi and connects immediately to DeepSeek in China. I said, well, isn't that dangerous? harper reed suggested he said leo what of your stuff in your house is not made in china well yeah which of the wi-fi things you've got connected i have more than 100 devices connected to my wi-fi which of those is not made in china i don't know none of them as far as i know they're all made in china so but a router certainly is an attack surface there's no doubt about that

2:09:37Megan Morrone:the last device I could certify was 100 % not made in China was, do you remember Google IO one year they released that sphere? Oh yeah, I bought that. That was 100 % made in the United States and discontinued immediately because they could not make it cheap enough.

2:09:55Ant Pruitt:Right. Yeah. Right. Did I buy that one or did I buy the camera that they put out that took pictures of you every five seconds?

2:10:02Megan Morrone:No, they gave us the spheres just by going to Google IO. Yes, that's right. they gave you at google io yeah uh google actually uh is a little bit in a little bit of trouble uh

2:10:13Ant Pruitt:in the uk uh google has to change its ai overviews the uk ordered them to put clearer links in ai search and to give uk publishers the option to opt out of those ai or for views or put that in other words allow the publishers to commit suicide right you don't want to be in search you don't have to be in search yeah this is from the uk's competition and markets authority it seems like

2:10:40Megan Morrone:we keep running that same story over and over it does doesn't news there was a news readers the news aggregators and then the listing on google search it's i mean yes it sounds good it's fun to fight google but that ultimately it's suicide yeah yeah google is improving the links on on these searches. I'm finding the links are more prominent now. They're easier to go through. There's more of them. They didn't want to do it because they said it junks up the search results. No, what they really mean is because we can't game the search results as easily as we could before.

2:11:13Ant Pruitt:You might actually click that and go out of a Google and leave. You might leave. You might leave. Sites that opt out will not receive traffic or impressions from our generative AI features. Here's a cup of hemlock for you. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, because as always, piracy is not the real problem. It's obscurity. Yeah. Yes, yes.

2:11:37Megan Morrone:By the way, Microsoft is doing the same thing with Bing. So there are stories from large publishers that end up on Microsoft's, the MSN page. And if you search for that story, it will give you the MSN link. You actually have to go to Google to search for the story to actually get the original link. I don't know. I know one's complaining about that. Because no one's using Bing. Yeah. I've got over a million points on Bing. I'm going to spend them at some point.

2:12:06Ant Pruitt:Well, good news. You can keep your Microsoft Windows 10 running for another year. Yay. What is it? 5 ,000 Bing points? You could keep that DGX Spark on Windows for a while.

2:12:17Megan Morrone:You've only got four months at this point, though. Oh, that's true. Yeah. That's a good point. I think Windows 10 might be the last Windows on my machines. I'm going to migrate them to Linux. Seriously, I'm not using 11. I'm with you. Yeah, I have successfully migrated my in-laws over to Linux. Wow. And it is working fine. Which version of Linux did you choose for them? Mint. Because it looks like Windows.

2:12:44Ant Pruitt:It feels like Windows. Yeah, it looks like Windows. It feels like Windows. And then the next thing is to put a Raspberry Pi that I can open ZD into to maintain their system. ZD is a Zero Trust, open source Zero Trust system from NetFoundry.io. So you're, oh, that's interesting. I would, I can imagine you using a Pi hole or something. In fact, Father Robert taught us how to install Pi hole back in the day on NoHow. So that would limit their DNS searches and thereby limit them from going to bad sites. Yeah, and I can combine that. The reason I would use OpenZD is because if you port scan the network, that Raspberry Pi does not show up at all.

2:13:28The only way into that Raspberry Pi is by using a cryptographic ID. Because in NetFoundry, we basically say, you know, in God we trust, everybody else gets zero trust.

2:13:41Megan Morrone:so it's got no open ports it's behind the it's behind the the router and there is a network you communicate with a network overlay and okay rather than via a port and um got it so it's kind of like scale a little bit or in the similar field but tail scale is a vpn so once you're inside the network yeah you do have permission to do anything whereas with uh open cd paul uh Because it's zero trust, you can only do what the policy determines what you're allowed to do.

2:14:11Ant Pruitt:That sounds like a good solution. Yeah. All right. I'm going to take a little break and then we have our final stories. This has been so much fun. I hate to wrap it up. Joey DeVilla is here. Tell me you don't have mass at six o 'clock in the morning, Robert. I don't. I have the 430.

2:14:32Megan Morrone:Wait in the morning? I'm not going to go to sleep until after the 430. AM? I'm good. am who comes to 4 30 mass yeah there's a there's a special mass we do down in the tomb of saint

2:14:43Ant Pruitt:peter's and oh that's a that's probably very prestigious to be doing that yeah but i'm down

2:14:50Megan Morrone:with the with saint peter pope 1.0 you're when you come i'll i'll take you down there it's it's very

2:14:56Ant Pruitt:nice well there's a window you can look when you if you go to the basilica no no no this is the

2:15:01Megan Morrone:special one this is the chapel of saint clementine it's right next to the tomb of saint peter it's so

2:15:06Ant Pruitt:is but is the uh the altar in saint peter's right above that straight up yeah but there's there's no

2:15:11Megan Morrone:way to look down there there there is ways to look down but not into this chapel this is a special chapel oh wow wow so i'm telling you that's a pretty high-end mass do you do you draw straws for that who has to get how do you get that uh you just have to ask the right people i'm i'm at the point where i'm i actually know some of the right people now that's and now help it can't be a very big chapel oh a maximum is 12 people sitting or maybe 17 people standing so who gets invited to that mass yeah yeah of dignitaries diplomats yeah it's the illuminati isn't it it's the opus day is what it is that's what this guy's running the antimatter machine the guy's running all the the alarm stuff that is so cool we've got to go another three hours to keep him awake now

2:16:05Ant Pruitt:oh yeah well we might as well i can go longer holy cow wow and you do you do that in the vernacular or do you do that in latin uh italian actually italian do you do you sing the i'm sorry no

2:16:23Megan Morrone:yes you do but the homily is short so it's five minutes which for some people that's difficult for me that's normal i i always do short homilies what do you know what your homily will be today I make it up as I go. I don't write it. I always, I like it to be active. You know what the subject will be. Do you have a verse from the Bible or something? Oh, no, no. I've read the scriptures and I know what, like, the ideas that I want, but I make it as I go just so that it's dynamic. I'm not one of these guys who goes up and says, marriage. Marriage. Yeah, I got it. I'm picturing the stonecutter song, who controls the British bound, we do.

2:17:04Ant Pruitt:i uh i did make a song you were here for that uh out of oh yes on six seven six seven yeah well six seven by the way yeah i have been told by a number of our club members is so catchy they can't

2:17:16Megan Morrone:stop singing today is six seven created an ear worm leo today is six seven by the way okay yeah

2:17:22Ant Pruitt:and today we will end the show with six seven although i'm told by the kids it's now six eight what i don't think that's true i think they're messing with me no no no no i will play six seven six seven uh by the way six six eight is the neighbor of the beast that's right it's right next door uh coming up in just a little bit uh father robert balassare who is staying up late tonight so nice to have you wow i'm just blown away that is amazing what's the name of the chapel? St. Clementine? St. Clementine. Wow. The patron saint of oranges? Is he? Aren't there clementine oranges? Clementine oranges, yeah.

2:18:09Ant Pruitt:For Christmas.

2:18:10Megan Morrone:I lose track of the patronages. Oh, I know. It's complicated. So many now.

2:18:16Ant Pruitt:Abby took the name of St. Abigail because she's Abby. That was nice. Jeff Jarvis is also here. He's a good Presbyterian. don't don't well they'll actually have a very bad one but that's a bad president he's a bad presbyterian even worse uh but he's a good scotsman thank you for being here jeff it's always great to see you of course he'll be back wednesday for intelligent machines and joey de villa congratulations netfoundry.io hey he's putting zd on everything oh yeah zd on all the places i wonder if maybe i'll put open zd on my uh on my router that's a really good idea i will talk you have tail scale running but you're right once they're in the network they can do anything they want got to limit that very very good very very good our show today brought to you by my mattress i love my mattress gosh i had such great dreams last night but you know you were in my dreams i think i was yelling at you though so i apologize i apologize for that i love my helix sleep mattress about a year ago now before we were doing the ads lisa and i realized that we'd had our mattress for almost eight years i think almost nine years and i had and i read probably my agent told me that you're supposed to change your mattress between every six and ten years because they wear out they sag they bow they don't they don't cool as well it was time for a new mattress so we did a lot of research and we found helix sleep and we are so glad we did you will be too it's time to upgrade to a helix mattress and get a great night's rest no more night sweats no back pain no motion transfer and you know we didn't want to settle for a mattress made overseas with kind of low quality and questionable materials and packed into a box stuffed on a container ship across the sea six months sitting next to the bunker fuel oil no but we chose the helix mattress because we found out it's it's assembled packaged and shipped from arizona and they make it to order so they do all that within days of you placing your order then they make the mattress so it is fresh it is amazing we also did what i recommend you do which is take the helix sleep quiz this matches you with the perfect mattress based on your preferences you like firm you like soft what do you like and your sleep needs i'm a side sleeper and i wanted something you know for side sleeping in a wesper sleep study helix measured participants sleep performance after doing what we did switching from their old mattress to helix mattress you know it's interesting our experience was exactly matched this study here's what they found 82 of participants saw an increase in their deep sleep cycle in fact participants on average achieved 25 more minutes of deep sleep per night that doesn't sound like much but you really you only get between half an hour and an hour a night of deep sleep but that's the most important one a 50 increase in your deep sleep that's a huge really impacts how you feel the rest of the day participants on average also achieve 39 more minutes of overall sleep per night so you sleep better you sleep longer you feel great the next day time and time again helix sleep remains the most awarded mattress brand i think that's what we did we looked around we saw all of these awards tested and reviewed and ranked number won by experts like Forbes, like Wired, like Oprah.

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2:22:37Ant Pruitt:It is the seventh day of June in the year 2026. I'm going to play just a little bit of this. I'll jump to the chorus.

2:23:00Ant Pruitt:Everybody sing along. Overthink it. That's the trick it lands like a shrug then it sticks a number with swagger Oh, we cannot a clue they say it for the vibe not to hand it to you

2:23:19That's the whole scene

2:23:24Megan Morrone:It's a flex not a fact you can explain it It is catchy, and I hate that. It's really catchy. Padre, we need a karaoke version. We're Filipino, so we're going to. Yeah, exactly.

2:23:45Ant Pruitt:Well, you did hear the Gregorian chant. I think I made it while you were there to the Pope's encyclical to section 238, your favorite section. Yes. Mine was 99. Let us invest in education

2:24:00Megan Morrone:beginning with ourselves now did you put that text in there or did you just say okay but it had but

2:24:09Ant Pruitt:the lyric writer which is uh probably chat gpt i'm thinking clearly can go out because i didn't tell it what six seven was and it wrote those lyrics so it went out and figured out what it was you know what six seven was all about and it nailed it frankly nice that it means absolutely nothing the kids just use it to mess with your head uh oh i just closed the uh window of both at &t and verizon uh lost in the supreme court uh they upheld the fcc's power to fine them over data sales eight to one goodness 100 but it's a mere 104 million dollars in fines for 18th and Verizon rounding error it's nothing come on who's the one yeah really AT &T and Verizon didn't just sell access to customer location data they failed to prevent that data from reaching bounty hunters and even a sheriff who uses to track people without their knowledge and then of course they sold it to data brokers who are the real bad agents yeah i mean bad enough i mean law enforcement gets it but data brokers who knows you know they're going to sell it to anybody so so which supreme court justice is the friend of dog the bounty hunter uh one that's a good question did they did they say who the uh they must have let me look and see if i can find this i mean yes whoever wrote the descent yeah who is yeah who who is most in the pocket of at &t and verizon take a guess oh clarence it was clarence thomas okay yeah i figured i thought surprise surprise surprise remember it's not it's not selling out

2:26:01Megan Morrone:it's buying in the fact the fact that you don't have a unanimous decision that it's not okay to circumvent constitutional protections that's scary to me that really is this should have been a no brainer yeah the idea that i'm going to allow law enforcement or non-law enforcement to have information that should only be obtainable via warrant that i mean then what are we doing here if we're now pretending that i can ignore civil rights as long as i buy the data from someone

2:26:31Ant Pruitt:that's a horrible precedent uh this was a week that youtubers won big at the box office

2:26:41Megan Morrone:huge success you saw this coming you saw this coming it was coming wasn't it yeah yeah uh

2:26:48Ant Pruitt:back rooms which i went to see on the 29th uh opening night actually kane pixels the director was there he's a local boy 20 years old got 10 million dollars from a24 to make this movie it has already made more than a hundred million dollars in its first weekend it is a huge success so does that put it over marty supreme already or not yet i hope so marty supreme not i finally watched that i did not enjoy it it was not a good movie i have not yet seen it don't it got a lot of buzz but i got nine academy or eight or nine academy award nominations one zero so that'll tell you something okay so youtubers out there start making movies i want to see annoying orange the movie soon no we already saw annoying orange the tv show and that wasn't good but that's what's interesting creators it's interesting that you brought that up because that was the first round of hollywood saying oh you know this youtube thing's big this was 10 years ago let's bring some of these people and they put them on nickelodeon and stuff and it was not good because It was the wrong way.

2:27:51Ant Pruitt:Yeah. Yeah. How so? Well, I think that you've got to recognize that the new things are built in the new medium and you leave them there. You don't try to bring them into the old medium. Although making a movie out of it did okay. Yeah. Well, I think we're going to see more and more of that. I mean, we had Robert Turcic on Intelligent Machines last week. He was very Hollywood. Yes. He was great. He was great. And he talked about the AI in the lot conference, where we're going to see movies made. There's one movie that's premiering at Tribeca Film Festival made entirely in AI. So between the distribution side and the making side, it's exploding.

2:28:35It's exploding. And what was the other one? Obsession. Is it Obsessions? Obsession. Obsession.

2:28:42Ant Pruitt:Another YouTuber making a movie and a huge success.

2:28:47Megan Morrone:The YouTubers I really want to see make it. Have you ever heard of Viva La Dirt League? Yes. They're New Zealanders. I watch them regularly. They were just making funny games about gaming stereotypes, or funny shorts about gaming stereotypes. But they actually have chops. They have acting and directing chops. They've done a few longer format pieces, and they're fantastic. that's the kind of YouTuber I want to see transition into long format storytelling. The other one I'd be interested in seeing would be The Archive In Between. So they do these shorts that feel like 50s style info films. Okay.

2:29:35about the about um they're basically tour tourism for the multiverse where they talk about different different cities or different parts of the patchwork city which is where every universe in the multiverse intersects and what you can expect to see and it's fascinating what's it called again what's the name the archive in between okay and they also have news alerts talking about, oh, beware, this creature from universe X-157 is now terrorizing the neighborhood. Retreat to your home. Follow the instructions in your intergalactic interloper kit, interuniversal interloper kit. And they're done so well.

2:30:19And it feels like a 1950s, 1960s civil defense film. And it's all AI. It's written, I believe it's written by humans, but definitely AI generated images. But yeah, really great stuff.

2:30:34Megan Morrone:That goes hand in hand with that story that YouTube took the streaming hours crown back from Netflix.

2:30:41Ant Pruitt:Absolutely. Worldwide, YouTube has longer daily average viewing around the world over Netflix. This is huge. I'm so frustrated with YouTube these days because the new kind of slop that's being made there is I'll get a fake script. for, you know, I see something I like, like Campbell's Soup, the original Campbell's Soup since I used to live next to the Campbell's Soup Test Kitchen Farm. In New Jersey, yes. New Jersey, yes, South Jersey. Where all the best tomatoes are made, yes. So you'll see something like How Campbell's Soup Rose and Fell. Okay, that's interesting. I'll watch that for, no, it's awful.

2:31:19It's a slop script, fake voice, a bunch of images picked up from nowhere and it's wrong. It's made up stuff. It's cheap though.

2:31:27Megan Morrone:my youtube is just but it's confidently wrong yes that's ai so you so what happened is netflix went

2:31:34Ant Pruitt:down it uh in 2024 it was 100 get this 100 minutes a day average down to 93 while youtube went up in 2025 99.1 uh minutes a day on average uh i'm up way above that i i more than 99 more than an hour I don't have YouTube running.

2:31:57Megan Morrone:It's like background music for me. Same here. Just keeps going.

2:32:01Ant Pruitt:So, and what do you have on there? Is it educational and informational stuff or is it music?

2:32:05Megan Morrone:Well, unfortunately, because I do fuzz the data, if I just let it go, I get weird. That'll teach you. That'll teach you, you liar, you.

2:32:14Ant Pruitt:So you turned on autoplay. See, I turned that off.

2:32:17Megan Morrone:If I turn on autoplay, I will get the weirdest content. Oh, yeah. It might be kind of fun.

2:32:22Ant Pruitt:I can't do that. No, it's just get a doobie. a sit back maybe a beer bong yeah there we go oh that's right you you're not allowed probably no no no but you can in the incense burner you hide all right i'm sorry have you never been an altar boy do you know none of the trick frankincense the incense burner you mean the thoroughfare yeah yeah that thing yeah gen z remained youtube's most engaged age group last year averaging 111 minutes a day but growth was strongest among priests age oh no wait a minute men oh sorry there we go age 55 to 64. uh-oh where viewing has increased 15 since 2024. daily average youtube users also increased for women of all age groups south koreans watch youtube the most 161 and a half minutes a day france recorded the biggest growth up by a third how much of the south korean numbers are from mukbangs yeah i don't know what that is should i ask just watching people eat an enormous amount of food that's what i like yeah well like i'm going to try every burger in this burger place that's a mukbang yeah but is that is that specific to south korea no no there's everywhere but it's popular it's popular there but they've got american cable you can see stuff like yeah but they've now adopted the word yeah they've just adopted the word for everything now so somebody's done a mcdonald's mukbang wow yeah right now yeah youtube for me is mostly like

2:34:00Megan Morrone:uh legal i i get a lot of legal um content um interesting auditing courts and and uh and lawyers giving out their their personal opinions on personal cases it's fun stuff for me i like the I would have been a lawyer if I wasn't a priest.

2:34:15Ant Pruitt:I feel like I should be more consistent in my YouTube viewing because it's too good stuff. Good angel or bad angel? Yeah, there you go.

2:34:22Megan Morrone:I know they compete for the same eyeballs and stuff, but YouTube and Netflix aren't the same. No. That's true. No, they're not. No, they're not at all. But YouTube, that's the point, I think, Benito, is that YouTube recognizes, the culture is recognizing a different genre of entertainment. Netflix tries to recreate the old genres Movies and TV shows YouTube is something different And the fact that it's bigger says a lot And I have to say half Maybe half my YouTube consumption Is listening rather than Directly watching Yeah, that's true

2:35:00Ant Pruitt:Oh, interesting Yeah, that's what they say Podcasts are very big on YouTube And of course, you know, our show Even though we do video There's nothing to see here Hey, hey hold on at least an hour of my day on YouTube is actually me on my bike and I'm just listening to it I've got my phone clipped on my shoulder and I'm just listening to YouTube videos lately a lot of Nate B. Jones talking about AI I love Nate B. Jones Nate B. Jones is great I just listen to him it's either that or what else on the other hand, either Adam Conover or Behind the Bastards. Do you think, I bet you everybody's AI, I mean, YouTube viewing is completely unique, right?

2:35:53Ant Pruitt:You could fingerprint somebody from what they watch pretty much. Because you're mentioning channels that are huge that I've never heard of. And yet I watch AI, I mean, YouTube, I keep calling it AI. I don't know why.

2:36:07Megan Morrone:I think this is actually the primary difference between YouTube and Netflix is that everything under the sun is on YouTube. Like everything.

2:36:15Ant Pruitt:That's right. Yeah. Netflix is curated. There's probably a lot of commonality of what people watch on Netflix. We all watch the same, roughly the same stuff. Well, yeah.

2:36:22Megan Morrone:Yeah. And so on YouTube, you curate it yourself. You curate YouTube. Netflix kind of does it for you. Right. Yeah. I went through months where I was binging on air traffic control conversations. I don't know why, but I just started liking those. And then I fell out of love with it. And I moved on to van life. And then I moved on to legal stuff.

2:36:45Ant Pruitt:Okay, there we go. But are you doing that under your name? Or do you have some special account that is...

2:36:50Megan Morrone:I create a special account for curating. Because otherwise it's too chaotic.

2:36:56Ant Pruitt:I'm watching a lot of that stuff on TikTok. Well, we thank everybody who's watching us on YouTube. 657 people right now thank you uh we do uh this show on youtube twitch x facebook linkedin and kick but it's most consistently uh youtube uh is where most people uh watch of course if you're in the club you can also watch in the club twit discord uh we do the show every sunday two to five pacific five to eight eastern midnight to 4 30 a.m in the uh in italy

2:37:29Ant Pruitt:uh robert thank you so much for being here we appreciate it father robert balassaire digital jesuit jesuit pilgrimage.app is the app that he designed uh but there's a whole lot more to robert he is on blue sky we know about some we don't know about yeah always a pleasure always a pleasure we love having you on it's great to see good to see you again putter i'm so i'm so privileged to

2:37:49Megan Morrone:see you twice in a week this has been a fantastic week i get to work with you it makes me feel like I did back when I was still at Twit.

2:37:58Ant Pruitt:We miss having you here. Miss you living in our basement. In the no-hole. In the no-hole, please. K-N-O-W. Thank you, Robert. Now we get to go to the basement. The Clementine Chapel. Yeah. That's literally the basement of St. Peter's. It's a higher quality basement, but there are no beanbags in the Clementine Chapel. We have hard chairs. Very uncomfortable, I'm sure. I don't know do you say good mass have a good mass have a good mass yeah that works break a leg we get it break a leg don't break a leg um just just uh just have a great time down there in

2:38:37Megan Morrone:the chapel I'll bring I'll bring you down there when you come over Leah I would I would be honored

2:38:42Ant Pruitt:I would love to see that seriously I gotta bring Abby with me because it would be so meaningful oh yeah yeah yeah yeah uh Jeff Jarvis of course will be back on Wednesday we'll interview Jeffrey canal from noose research about hermes we talk ai on intelligent machines his book hot type available from his website jeffjarvis.com and the audio book finished i'll do the last pickups on tuesday things i muffed up which are many do they stop as you're reading it do they stop you as you're reading or do they let you kind of roll and no the first time i did an audio book you just went on from wherever you screwed up and did it again now that means they got to edit now now you screw up and they said oh no you gotta take that again and they back up and you get let's say a three word cue and then you have to pick up right then that's so it matches yeah so it matches yeah i've because that's sometimes you'll hear that in audiobook you can tell there's an edit because it just changes so dramatically yeah so then you they want you to hear how you were talking and then just kind of yeah then i did the pickups from when i screwed up things like i said could instead of would it's that kind of stuff right uh and um don't you get to say hey i'm the author and could is fine to some extent but they get pretty they want when there were cases there were cases where i said this doesn't make sense in audio i'm changing this they said okay it's your book you can do that but no generally they want it to be they want to be able to yeah you'll you'll hear that on audiobooks they'll say if you're listening instead of if you're reading which is what the text said yeah that makes sense i hate say i still it's still a book i won't say this audio book for listeners versus readers i went to that but but they'll they'll play what i screwed up and then right after that i have to say the same thing corrected so that i think i've heard how my tone was right then and you refuse to read the part at the beginning about what at the end where it says no ai company may take this in this universe or any future universe because you're evil bastards i won't read that part so they have to find other they they they have they have plenty of other voices who've read that because because like like me you embrace the ai yeah i do i over i do let him yes i want to be discovered there i think we made a deal with somebody that if people wanted ai wanted twits content for ai they would go to this company and license it but who's gonna do that it just seemed odd to me but i guess we give you a legal pro rata i don't know how it works i should That was the name of the company.

2:41:06Ant Pruitt:Oh, I don't know who it is. No. I mean, I don't even know if it's on our page. Is it on our page? Does it say, like, if you'd like to license this content, please contact ProRata. I don't know. It should say that somewhere.

2:41:22Megan Morrone:I mean, we could put all the Twit content in the archives over here. We have a storage vault now.

2:41:27Ant Pruitt:Like what not to do. Like how not to be, right? Thank you very much, Jeff. Thank you, Joey. Congratulations on the new gig at netfoundry.io, developer advocate. Thank you so much. And you're going to work on some what, AI thing there? What are you working on? I'm there. What I'm doing is I'm promoting a lot of the new AI tooling. So it's built on top of OpenZD, and it is for agents to talk to LLMs, agents to talk to MCP servers safely, and agents to talk to other agents, all zero trust. Basically, you're either using zero trust or you're going bust. Zero trust or bust. Zero trust or bust. Joey Davila, you should write an accordion song for that.

2:42:16Ant Pruitt:Joey's a great accordionist as well. There we go.

2:42:19Megan Morrone:I mean, you've got an LLM to generate that song, Leo.

2:42:22Ant Pruitt:No, no, I believe in humans. We brought in a chorus to do that 6-7 song. Organic. As a musician, I am a protein chauvinist. Let the meat make the music. Only carbon-based life forms for me. Thank you very much. Thank you all for watching. A special thanks to our Club Twit members who make this show possible. Yes, we have advertising. It covers about 70%, maybe 60 % of our costs. In order to do these shows, we need your help. And boy, you've really stepped up, and we appreciate it. Twit.tv slash Club Twit. If you're not a member, you will not be able to see our coverage of WWDC tomorrow. All the keynote stuff is, I don't like paywalls, but we have to put it behind the paywall so we don't get taken down by Apple.

2:43:08Ant Pruitt:So if you want to see it, twit.tv slash club. You also get ad-free versions of all the shows. Special programming we do only for our club members and a lot more. But mostly you get the good, warm and fuzzy feeling of knowing you're supporting independent journalism. Beholden to none. Except you are the users because we're all users here. Thanks, Joey, Robert, Jeff. Thanks to all of you for joining us. We will see you next time. And as I've been saying for 21 freaking years, another twit is in the can. We'll see you later. Bye-bye. This is amazing.