TWiT 1091: But You Didn't Move the Bodies - Surprising Supreme Court Move on Geofence Warrants

40:15They hate big tech.

40:16Ant Pruitt:It's kind of part and parcel of the same thing. 61 % of Americans have a negative opinion of AI, right? Like, that's not a secret. I think it's probably pretty conservative, you know, in general. And so I think what their thing is, is like, look, this could create a lot of economic value. It also is going to create all kinds of challenges. If it does, and if they become public companies, if they, they're like one of the policy proposals was, and I had an interview with the person who wrote this at OpenAI, the researcher who wrote this, that wrote some policy proposals of like, what are the ways we could make AI actually useful to people that it could help with the sort of job loss, with the economic inequality, all of that.

41:01And one of these things these researchers proposed that eventually, you know, Altman and the others signed off on was that what if we took, when we do go public, what if we took a chunk of our shares and we allocated them to the u.s government and it essentially gets like redeployed to the american people now how does that the devil's in the details right they didn't explain how um maybe it wouldn't just be up in a.i maybe it's according to the financial times a proposed

41:27Ant Pruitt:arrangement would involve other u.s. ai companies handing over a similar stake not what i i don't know who that means i think it means they're saying like we're if we do it we'd like to see everybody else do it. I think what, what, what I, I don't know how practical that is, but what I do think is interesting is that like, this wasn't, I think just like a Sam Altman driven thing or an executive driven thing. Like this was driven by researchers who are quite altruistic, right. Who are like, they're, they're punching the time card, right. They're not making billions off of, off of their stock, you know, but they, they are sincere about like, what are the ways that could, that we could think creatively because we're going to, this thing could get really, you know, big in a way that could cause a lot of job dislocation, could, you know, redistribute wealth in negative ways, which is already a challenge.

42:22Ant Pruitt:Is this going to appease the American populace that, oh, hey, we're getting 5 %? Is that going to make you feel better, Owen? Let me, two things. Let me, first, let me bend the knee to Jason for a second, okay? so i'm building something with a friend and when fable came out we did more in three days than we did amazing and i'm not lying like it it was on steroids and when they took it away it was like you know taking a baby's pacifier away like we were crying i was like oh my god i'm back to being stupid so yes it's powerful and you use it for the right thing it does matter and it was worth all the water jason now when it comes to billionaires giving back to the american people I've been waiting for trickle-down economics since before I was born, sir.

43:08Ant Pruitt:So unless you're going to tell me something useful and direct and clear, right now they're taking away Social Security, Medicaid, can't get no free education. If billionaires want me to get on board with your AI train, tell me that whatever percentage you're going to put away isn't going to go to the federal government. Just tell me you're going to give free health care to every American citizen in the United States of America. What if they did that? If you told me that, that would get every doofus that doesn't know anything about anything on your side. Instead of filling up buses with guys with yellow T-shirts saying, drink the AI water, it's fine.

43:42Ant Pruitt:And don't worry about your electric bill, it's fine. And don't worry about the 42 twin-turbo jet helicopter engines they got running in your local city in Heritage. It's fine. Maybe, just maybe, I would get on board. But other than that, I want my water, I want fresh air, and I don't want the decibels popping over 100 in the middle of the night. because somebody wants to know how to make brownies.

44:07Ant Pruitt:They're very good brownies, though. I mean, they better be. But he's not wrong about the minimal benefits and the huge. You want to make better brownies? Substitute water for milk, add in an extra egg. Bob's your uncle. I also wonder, though, 5 % of what? Because I don't think these companies are making money. it's five percent of their stock i guess right right that's money that doesn't exist yet it's it's it's an agreement that they're all losing money right nobody there's no ai company out there that's actually yeah i mean positive income google right but google they make money in advertising they make and and their cloud business right and so they're selling cloud capacity to others including oh that's a good point and if you're making the picks and axes and dungarees for the gold rush then you're making some nvidia is making a lot of money off all the ai companies five percent of nvidia probably would pay for the federal health care all the health care everything get on it i'm just saying you got to attach it to something that's dumb enough that everybody can understand it's fair it's true yeah because everything else you just said just sounds like government talking about what they always been talking about oh well you know he's not worth a trillion dollars oh doctor he can't be taxed on that it's not real but how come he can borrow it to buy this fourth dot and and not pay any taxes on it and then again i understand how it works because you know i mean i don't pay i ain't paid tax in 20 years on the live not going wood wait a minute now owen now you shouldn't be saying that out loud now there might be people listening i'm i'm clear with the irs they know what i'm doing the church of old doctor is running strong here in the United States of America.

45:53Ant Pruitt:Got a little family foundation. We're doing everything. I've got the LLC, the S-Corps. Doing everything I'm supposed to do, Uncle Leo. Regular people are out here getting robbed and they're not getting anything for it. So unless you're going to give them education or healthcare, and healthcare would be the thing. Even more so than education. Not everybody wants to go to college, right? But if you just gave them free healthcare, that would be the carrot that would get everybody on board for what you're trying to push through in this AI revolution. Especially since the healthcare is so explicitly linked to employment and you have all of these AI big brains going, we're going to eliminate so many white collar jobs.

46:27We're going to eliminate the jobs of the educated jobs, jobs, jobs are going away. It's inevitable. You can't stop it. And all people hear as I will be poor. And the first time I break a leg, you may as well just shoot me in the head because I can't afford to get it. I can't afford to get it set. So decouple healthcare from the employment market and people will probably care a lot less when they lose their jobs.

46:54Ant Pruitt:Well, yeah. I don't know if that's going to be enough, though, to convince people to like big tech and AI and data centers. I mean, they love fracking at this point. Like, people protested fracking. You just need a good ad campaign. People protested fracking, and you have folks who are like, my groundwater, it's terrible. But it's, and like, states now have earthquakes that didn't used to have earthquakes, thanks to fracking. There were the same environmental considerations. And in the end, all you have to say to Americans is, but this keeps fuel and power cheap. And they'll be like, oh, okay.

47:27And if you give somebody a big enough carrot with AI, they won't care about the environmental impact anymore. Like they care right now because they're paying horrible utility bills and they can see that the visible degradation of the water. But it's really easy to distract people from environmental concerns.

47:50Ant Pruitt:So I would generally agree with you. Fracking is a terrible example because fracking doesn't come down Main Street in your rural town. when we're when they're putting a data center in every other town and every other area and close to major cities and suburbs and boroughs you're not fracking everywhere there's only certain places where fracking is palatable right or useful they're trying to put data centers every three miles i'm like bro how much how much data do we need what do you who are you trying to learn from what do we need to know that you need that many like they need a blondies recipe it's not just the brownies anymore we've got like 42 times what china has for data centers and they're out there putting them in the ocean using solar power and other things to power there's we're just out here cooking with crisco taking up the temperature messing up the planet yes i'm looking at you jason i gotta combat your positivity with the balance of the world okay all right oh and you have convinced me that it was a bad that the fracking was a bad example thank you thank you uh i guess at this point i'm not going to say anything like well isn't ai like going to change the world and isn't it a great technology and i guess you could i want to hear how that goes we're going to kind of well i think we're going to isn't there a risk that we're going to lose something that could be really significant if it was going to make a tony stark arc where like this little box is going to generate no power we don't know like again you have to start trying to sell dumb people on real imaginary things that would help them.

49:18Ant Pruitt:Tell them that. Can we go to Mars? Yeah, exactly. People love Tony Stark. They love DC Comics. They're like, look, we're going to make an arc reactor. This one thing's going to be better than 40 nuclear plants. Only if you let us use AI. And they're like, oh, you know, Tony Stark kind of saved the world twice. I'd be on board today. You got to trick people. Wow. So you're saying it's a PR problem, basically. Yes. Oh, it's a big PR problem. I think the way to think about... Sorry, go ahead, Lisa. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, you're the one who runs an AI publication. So you're the subject matter expert here.

49:50I'll just say it. I'll say it briefly was just that I think the way to think about AI, today's AI, it's like anything when it's like when you draft a rookie in the NBA or in the MLB, right? You draft the rookie, they're like the five star prospect. You're like, they're going to do everything. They're going to break every record. They're going to be the, you know, the best ever at their position or whatever. and you think that they're just going to be able to do everything. AI is kind of like that right now. Because it's unknown.

50:19Ant Pruitt:Yeah. It's exactly. It's still unknown. It's an open book. Yeah. There are a lot of things that are being promised about what AI is going to do that we're going to decide, you know what, it's probably not going to be able to do that, but it's going to be really great. In fact, better than anything we've seen at a couple other, at a couple of things, right? Like a great prospect might be. And so there's still a lot of, you know, that that has to play out over the coming. It's all potential right now. It's all unknown potential. It's all potential. But here's the one thing that I think I'll just and I'll wrap it is just that the one thing I think we should think about that is benefits.

50:53Everybody with AI is that it is and this word gets used too much, but I am going to use it. The democratization of expertise. There are a lot of things that the expertise used to be locked behind access to very specialized experts, people or institutions that not everybody got. And without that expertise, you really didn't have a chance to compete at a lot of things or to be able to advance.

51:21Ant Pruitt:In a way, there's a precedent for that. I mean, that's what YouTube and Google search have done, haven't they? They've democratized information. information already. Well, you've created a new problem, which is you have to figure out how do you give people the skills to know when they're connecting to somebody who is genuinely skilled or is saying something that is true, correct, verifiable, reproducible versus somebody who is a flim-flim artist or deeply an expert. For example, if you have somebody foraging, like all of us in California can talk about there's this culture of foraging that's come up with mushrooms, which means there's now also a culture of people being rushed to the emergency room when the pictures they've seen online seem a little bit like what they've picked up in a forest, but they eat something and next thing you know, they've got to head to the hospital.

52:14You can democratize access to expertise, but you also have to be able to figure out how you're going to build up the skills people are going to need to understand, hey, I've tapped into this expert as opposed to, hey, I've tacked into this crackpot who has said things like, there wasn't a Roman Empire, it was space aliens and Atlanteans working together to standardize wagon wheels. Like, we have access to all of these things right now on YouTube, or on any social network, or on the World Wide Web as we know it. Or if you are chatting with your favorite LLM and you ask it questions, even if it comes back with citations and sources, it's still on you as the person who's making the query to go through and take a look at the citations and say, okay, is this a verifiable and legitimate source?

53:02Or is this somebody who genuinely believes that a race of intelligent rabbits put together Stonehenge? It just, we don't have that educational infrastructure in place.

53:12Ant Pruitt:You mean a race of intelligent rabbits didn't put together Stonehenge? Now I'm disillusioned. Why do you think we have the Easter bunnings, the eggs, they keep trying to hatch a new one?

53:24Ant Pruitt:on that note i'm gonna have to rethink my whole cosmology but okay uh we're gonna take a break alicia schmeiser is here with her intelligent race of bunnies uh from nojitter.com it's great to see you jason heiner our ai guru from the deep view and uh and uh owen jj stone who did use fable you did use it you're not against it nope nope i does the last bit of water i have left from using it save the water yeah well i got half half a bottle save it this week attack brought to you this week by zscaler the world's largest cloud security platform i am willing to say that the potential rewards of ai are you know pretty significant if you're a business probably too great to ignore but there are risks and you really shouldn't ignore those either the loss of sensitive data attacks against enterprise managed ai and then there's of course the issue the generative ai increases opportunities for threat actors helping them to rapidly create phishing lures to write malicious code to automate data extraction on and on and on there were just let's talk about this exfiltration of proprietary data because this is a real problem and it's not always intentional right it's easily uh accidental often there were get this last year 1.3 million instances of social security numbers leaked to ai applications chat gpt and microsoft copilot alone saw nearly 3.2 million data violations and in most cases it's it's not hacking it's inadvertent it's an employee uploading the tax return to the ai not thinking that gives the ai your social and all the other information.

55:10Ant Pruitt:That's why I think it's time for a modern approach. And that's why I want you to take a look at Zscaler and their Zero Trust Plus AI. It removes, Zero Trust is great because it removes your attack surface, helps you secure your data everywhere. Zscaler can also safeguard your use of public and private AI. It can protect you against ransomware. It can protect you against AI-powered phishing attacks. When you put together Zero Trust Plus AI, you've got a tool that's very powerful. Just check out what Siva says. He's the director of security and infrastructure at Zora. They use Zscaler. This is what he says about it.

55:45AI provides tremendous opportunities, but it also brings tremendous security concerns when it comes to data privacy and data security. The benefit of Zscaler with ZIA rolled out for us right now is giving us the insights of how our employees are using various Gen AI tools. So ability to monitor the activity, make sure that what we consider confidential and sensitive information, according to, you know, companies' data classification, does not get fed into the public LLM models, etc.

56:15Ant Pruitt:Thank you, Siva. With Zero Trust plus AI, you can thrive in the AI era. You can stay ahead of the competition. You can remain resilient even as threats and risks evolve. Learn more at zscaler.com slash security. That's zscaler.com slash security. we thank them so much for their support this week in tech you support us too when you go to that address so they know you saw it here zscaler.com security uh i think you know one of the things that's absolutely happening One of the things that's absolutely happening is, you know, it was the tech lash a few years ago, but the anti-tech backlash is at this point very much about AI.

57:02Ant Pruitt:Cloudflare, I'll give you an example, is working hard to block AI bots from scraping data from websites. uh cloudflare announced on wednesday it's going to prevent ai crawlers from accessing ad supported websites by default the theory being well if you scrape the website people aren't going to see the ad they're going to get the content minus the ad now imagine if they'd done that 15 years ago with google oh yeah google you can't look at a website because then people google it and they get the information they never go to the website uh i don't i don't know if this is a good idea what do you think lisa i was just thinking you used to be able to in the in the earlier days of google when you you could say don't index me well i was thinking as somebody who was using it you used to be able to click on a cached version so rather than go to the website you could have that's right load like that i enjoyed that feature a lot and the website you weren't going to probably didn't exactly um and now no jitter has ads right we do we have we have we have multiple revenue streams and ads are part of them we have ads too so i'm not against ads by and i've seen and our household has experienced firsthand what happens when um having having google crawl your site and aggregate your content into AI Answers really hits your traffic.

58:33If you are, for example, a consumer technology site that used to have a fairly robust revenue stream based on affiliate and referral links, and people are no longer going to your site for buying advice because they can get the same information through the AI summary, that's a significant hit to revenue. So... what i don't have a nuance this is right this is wrong answer i'm just i get where both sides are

59:01Ant Pruitt:coming from right i mean here's part of the problem cloudflare has google yeah bing and apple all have web crawlers yeah that are there for producing results in their search right what google does and what bing does and what apple does is they also use that same crawler to add to their ai indexes and so you block one you're blocking the other it's very challenging well it's an interdependent relationship and it seems it seems like right now frankly google et al are getting the better end of the deal so so cloudflare is jumping in and their new tools and partnerships i'm reading from the register yeah give owners website owners increased visibility and commercial opportunities and reward ai companies that have bots with clear and transparent intent what it really does is if if you are an ai bot it's going to block you this starts september 15th and customers uh people who run their sites through cloudflare which is like a significant portion of the internet will they'll default to allow search crawling but blocking ai training and agents i think ai is only as good as the data set it's trained on what is that going to do to those products right it might i yeah exactly i think people may regret this just as the same way that remember with spanish news outlets said no more uh no more snippets for google and google said okay fine well no more links back to your news from google they do regret this is a situation again where they don't have an answer for what they're doing to small companies.

1:00:45Ant Pruitt:I have a friend who cut back on his Google ad spending and he's like, how do I get Google to stop calling me now? Call him four to five times a week now, get him back to spend money. They're like, well, our traffic dropped off dramatically when you made this change. So why am I going to keep continuing to pay you at the rate I was paying you for a lower return and click through? Because whatever you've done has cost my bottom line at least 15%. Nothing else changed besides the way Google does their ad spend. So it's bad for business, but they're going to fix it. They're going to figure it out.

1:01:21Ant Pruitt:And they're hemorrhaging business because I'm sure that a lot of people are starting to pull back just to see what the difference is going to be. Because if I keep paying you$1 ,500 a month and I'm not getting a return out of that, I might as well give you$200 a month just to keep the account somewhat active and try to figure out how I can now game AI. Now I got to write love letters to chat GBT and sweetheart complexity. Like it's it's so bad because they make these adjustments when they don't know how to help. The person is actually putting money in their pocket. Yeah, I think we're also assuming Google is going to be dominant in a search space forever.

1:01:57And that may not necessarily be the case if Google is perceived as being less useful or if it doesn't make significant inroads. into the next generation of ambient computing, we don't know that another tech vendor will not be able to step in and unlock voice-driven search or unlock a different type of contextual search.

1:02:20Ant Pruitt:Well, AI search is kind of doing that already, isn't it? I mean, I don't use Google much anymore. I do AI searching. When I want to find something, I ask my AI agent to look for it. Yeah. For those peasants like me who are still using Google, because we use it, I use it all the time to double check names and job titles and other, you know, when you're doing second reads on stories to make sure the facts are correct. And you probably don't want to use AI in case of a hallucination. Exactly. No, it's always look for a primary source. And Google is a great way to get started. The search experience has degraded dramatically, but so have the quality of the results.

1:02:58and sooner or later something is going to come along that is positioned as a more pleasant and more accurate user experience one that's not shaking somebody down um google thinks it's embedded in our ecosystem but then again yahoo was the 1990s internet and look where that is right now i mean every company at some point loses the plot with what people want with the functions that they're doing. And there is nothing to say that a company like Google wouldn't be really vulnerable right now to that too. I think it's true. And I think it's funny, I hear a couple different voices about this, which I hear some, which is like, ultimately, they think that Google's going to win the consumer AI race, because it already has, you know, all it has Android, it has Chrome, it has all of this.

1:03:47And then And along comes Apple.

1:03:51Ant Pruitt:Right. And suddenly everyone wants to use Siri. And I wonder this fall, if that's going to, the power dynamic might shift. No doubt it will. And here's the other thing that I think gets to what Lisa's talking about, which is that Google has this thing right now that it's really nervous, right? For the first time in two decades, there is something has come along that's challenged Google search, right? Because AI search clearly has. And it's a little bit freaked out. It knows that it's having trouble keeping up. It had a moment with GPT, or sorry, with Gemini 3. But still, the problem is that now it knows that it's struggling to keep up.

1:04:31They're not moving fast enough. And what's happening is now they're shoving more and more AI overviews in. They're like, you know what? We've got this wrapped audience. We're going to shove more AI overviews at them. We're going to convince them that they want to use our AI. and they're shoving it with the people that are still there that haven't decided they want to leave, right? And so now they're ticked off, right? The people you still have, Google, are now upset, right? Because they're like, this isn't helping me, to Lisa's point. Their search experience has gotten worse. So now there was this big jump in usage for DuckDuckGo, as you may have heard, when they started after Google I.O.

1:05:10with this new search experience, they started shoving more AI overviews, right? So in a sense, they're like hastening the demise of Google search a little bit, right? Which is difficult and challenging.

1:05:22Ant Pruitt:Jason, you just went dark. Sorry that I blipped. Did you turn off your camera go to sleep? No, it might be my camera overheating. Let me check on it real quick. So sorry. It's a little hot in Louisville. Yeah, see that? Those data centers cranking up the environment. There you go. Cracking up the temperature of the environment. We can still hear you just fine. Now nobody cares about global warming because I got to Google, Google, Google. My friend, I carry around my own metal straw. I care about the warming. I care about the turtles. Aren't you sweet? Aren't you sweet? Owen, what's the AC turn to?

1:05:59Ant Pruitt:Oh, I mean, again, I'm a horrible person. We talked about it. I know that golf courses use a lot of water. Stone them all. I don't play golf. I know the air conditioning, like people over in Europe. i don't know how they survive over drunk leo you know what they have 7 500 deaths a year from heat yes that's how they don't suit that's how that's the problem and by her bias is what's happening over there yeah there we go jason jason had to go flip a switch you got it all working there sorry about that yeah that's okay i think so i think so so owen come on tell us is it 68 70 right now because i care about my bill which is outrageous it is 74 good man 74 uncomfortable good man at night when i sleep i might crank it down to 72 you know i mean it used to be you coming here with 67 but i started caring my so again uncle leo i i'm in the house that i grew up as a child two years ago my electric bill in the winter time was 200 a month yeah last winter it was 800 a month yeah you want to know what ours is here in california a little more i don't want to know i know i know it's like a billion dollars they already hate us because they ain't us it's 1200 1400 2000 yeah 1500 1500 so again my gosh and i'm just saying like and we don't use the ac we rarely use it and we rarely use the heat but electricity is very expensive here i keep my heat at 72 i'm a polar but i like it cold so i'm not even running the heat like that uncle leo and i'm like how is the bill 800 i know like now we do have electric vehicles so that might be part of it i mean we we don't we don't buy gas so i have electric heat i don't have gas either but that's the point of that like you know but again it's just my kilowatts are tripled in price in two years what happened kilowatts are killing you god i don't have any extra nothing else they put a data center next year next to you is that what they they look jason i'm trying to save the planet and you're over here trying to make a data center the mayor of new york mam donny said well everybody should set your thermostats to 78 which by the way that's not a hundred that's not 90.

1:08:09Ant Pruitt:that's not even 80. it's 78. it's you know it's fairly comfortable dave portnoy about barstool said welcome to communism that was so disingenuous because in a lot of other states this is the advice they give out all of the time well the federal government the federal government has taken down thousands of pages recommending energy conservation this week during the what is clearly you know an energy crisis in washington dc because the temperatures are over 100 in some cases uh conservation is now communism apparently well they say that until they have another blackout in new york i remember a couple years ago when there were heat waves rolling and they're having blackouts and that's a problem and if you don't grow up in the south yeah you can't handle that i remember going to my grandmother's one time and it was 92 degrees in her apartment and i'm opening up windows i'm like is the ac broke she's like no i'm like it's hot she's like baby this ain't hot i'm like i i won't stay here grandma you gotta turn hair on so unless you're built for it like people die every day from that kind of weather and that kind of heat and it's just oh wow 78 degrees so we don't have a blackout i think it's okay the uh the u.s department of energy used to have until july 3rd a website advising americans to keep your temperature between 75 and 78 during summer days but after after mayor mamdani said that they they took that website down because it's communism yeah anyway uh uh it's easy I guess my point there is but you did not move the body you did not move the bodies it's easier to blame AI and Elon Musk's gas natural gas driven data centers admittedly all of those are problems but there are other problems as well um I don't know I I want to advocate for AI because I'm a fan of it and maybe that's maybe that's a mistake on my part I'm gonna have to rethink I just think it's you know telling both sides of the story you know what you do on on this show and on other shows.

1:10:16Yeah, we let people like O-Doc to come on

1:10:18Ant Pruitt:once every five years. Yeah. I just, again, I say these things, and I'm like, I say the dumb things that I just want to know why. Why can't I just put it near the ocean, run salt water, and have a filtration system? Why can't I just use salt water? Because it uses a lot of energy. I know. Before the show, you have this great thing which gets water out of, 15 gallons a day of water out of the air. Why can't we use stuff like that when we're recycling the water and the gray water you should get one of those devices it tells you how much of that 800 bill is going to your your water osmosis device listen to me don't ruin my story with the truth i'm battling for my life with jason's whole episode i don't need you coming in here trying to sew in nuance this is the problem with nuance i know nuance is why my church is successful i pitch a good story that's exactly right lane of what i need to do i will not have you coming here with your little science experiment kind of debunk me okay this is bad for business i could tell you that right now it is ratings are true it's not good companies are throttling employees ai use now because it's so expensive from 404 media sources and links from amazon adobe atlassian city and more show what's really happening with ai companies are trying to rein it in meta has said you get 200 bucks a week in tokens that's this is the same company that used to have a leaderboard a token maxing leaderboard all these companies did all these companies did yeah this is oh yeah this is a really interesting thing so what happened a year ago was all these ceos were saying hey we're they were going out to the especially public companies They're going out to the street and saying, like, we are leaders.

1:12:03We have these AI, you know, with AI, we're using AI in all these amazing ways, because this is the best way to get people to invest in you. Like, okay, these companies are bought in for the future, right? And then what happened was inside the company, like, they were just begging people to use AI. They're like, please, most, you know, they were having this very, very low utilization of AI inside the companies. So what did they do, right? When we came to the beginning of this year, like we've got to find ways to fix this. So they were like having these like token fests, right? Token leaderboards.

1:12:34The people who are using AI the most, they were getting, you know, these internal props and both socially inside the company, like culturally. And as well as, I mean, some of them even had bonuses, as I understand it, you know, that were related to who was using AI the most, who were the companies using AI the most. And then what happened in Q2 is like all the CFOs freaked out. And they're like, our token costs and our inference costs are going absolutely bananas. Like remember Uber's executive stepped up and said, we went through our entire inference cost in four months. We blew through it all, right?

1:13:12Now, a lot of this was because of AI agents, right? AI agents just burn tokens. They'll burn tokens all day and all night, you know, in the background. And sometimes they'll burn them in a dead end.

1:13:21Ant Pruitt:If you start giving people rewards for using tokens, it's easy enough to, I need more brownie recipes, right? I mean, you don't, there's no, there's no necessary connection between token maxing and actual productivity at all. So token maxing died in Q2, a hard death, right? Like one CTO said to me, like, well, you used to be about letting every flower bloom. And now the CFOs are coming through with a lawnmower, you know, mowing down all those flowers. i i got the company wrong it's tesla that said 200 bucks a week not meta meta actually added a uh a tool to monitor employees use of ai it's called ai gateway and uh we'll have automated alerts to flag unusual spending spikes so they've gone quite the opposite direction right they yeah everybody's like all those people they fired and replaced with agents would have been cheaper it's almost like it's cheaper to keep it i'll get divorced cheaper to keep her want a divorce is cheaper to keep her and they talked last week about ford they had fired a bunch of reliability engineers hoping to replace them with ai they were so it was so bad they actually had to hire them all back you know gartner to their to their credit you know um gartner in the first quarter said like all these companies that are claiming they're gonna hire that claiming that they're doing layoffs based on ai they um we've written about this on the deep view multiple times you know, that they said a pretty high percentage of them, we predict, are going to have to hire those people back because they're going to realize they don't have the automation, they don't have the, you know, the strategy in place to actually do it, and they're going to regret it.

1:14:59So, it's like... What we're seeing with jobs and AI, because when we're covering contact centers, as you know, contact centers have a perpetual hiring problem, which is, it's hard to be a call center agent. It really is at any tier. And AI has actually been very, very good for handling lower level calls. So the way some companies have chosen to spin this as using AI, we were able to reduce headcount when what they did instead is they just didn't fill positions that had formerly been open. No jobs were lost because no one was doing that job. It's, you know, no one got laid off. It's just a matter of, we found a way to use AI to fill in a labor gap that we had.

1:15:42But when we talk about this in the press, and we're part of this too, we're not making a distinction between we laid off somebody because we think AI can do your job better compared to we took this position off the market that was open anyway, because AI can do it. And we do You kind of need to make distinctions between people directly losing their jobs because someone thinks an agentic AI workflow can do it better compared to people's jobs shifting because what used to be entry-level jobs or low-level jobs don't exist anymore since agentic AI workflows can do these things.

1:16:22Ant Pruitt:so i uh i for a long time uh richard campbell said oh this is just the gartner ai hype cycle we're going through it and i said no no ai is something completely different but you know what it's pretty clear we're in the trough of disillusionment right now that i see in the u.s especially the u.s yeah we're heading there anyway the peak of inflated expectations about long-term pricing um yeah we're seeing a shift in ai pricing where instead of it being a monthly subscription model or a monthly token model, we're seeing vendors that are now offering things where it's a combination where you get like a budget of so many tokens per month or you get a subscription that's a combination of so many tokens per month versus so many workflows.

1:17:10And what's been interesting is seeing customers push back with, we'll only pay if we can see quantifiable results from the workflows that are being set up here. So - Pay for outcomes, like that's probably gonna be part of it. Yeah, pay for outcomes. Thank you. I was like groping for the words. It's interesting to see the real shift, because before when this all first broke out, I would sit in vendor briefings and they'd be like, and with a subscription model, you'll have so many seats and all of this. And I just remember thinking, this is gonna be stupid expensive for somebody. And stupid expensive has happened.

1:17:43And now everybody is like sort of right-sizing the resources. It's almost like, y 'all remember the movie pass where they're like, oh, pay pennies a month and you can watch as many movies as you want. And then they just kept changing it as they realized that they were running out of money. Like AI is kind of in its movie pass pricing era right now, like where they're like, you've got to make this work. What's happening too, in the second half of the year, all of this is like hitting the fan, right? So what you're going to see is a number of things like local inference. So you'll see the device companies like Apple and Google and Qualcomm and others talking about using local inference, right, to do things.

1:18:23That's where you have a model locally. You pay nothing, right? You can get an open source model. You can run it locally. You'll talk about like small models, small language models with domain specific language models where they're really good at one thing. So they're fast. They're cheap. You know, it's like near zero cost. You're going to see companies doing that. So like these model routers is one of the things you're going to hear where you like send your query and then it sort of routes it to, if it needs to go to a big, expensive, fancy cloud model, you know, it'll do it. But if not, it'll just use a local model.

1:18:55I'm doing that right now. Just a small model. Yeah. If you do that, you can save so much on token costs and water. Owen, I promise it will save some water too. You know, if you do that, like you can be, do it a lot smarter. But right now, we're like cutting down daisies with chainsaws, you know, doing things that we're sending to these big models. You don't need it. Frontier models don't need it. Fight Fable to get a brownie recipe.

1:19:19Ant Pruitt:No, actually, the agent harness that I use, Hermes, has a delegation model built in. And I am able to run it locally on my machine for 90 % of what I do. The problem is, and then it will slowly escalate depending on the need. The problem is models like Fable are so good that you kind of get spoiled and you want to get the brownie recipe from the best. And so I'm kind of, you know. If you've driven the Ferrari, you don't always want to drive the Corolla. You want to drive the Ferrari to the grocery store. You don't want to just take the car to the grocery store. You've got to keep them down on the farm once they've been to the big city.

1:19:56So yesterday, you know, I, like Lisa said, hey, you just got a$10 bill from Anthropoc.

1:20:03Ant Pruitt:I said, yeah, yeah, that happens. It's okay. as long as you don't get a bunch of them. Then I looked and it was like$20,$10. They were doing it$10 at a time. I spent like 200 bucks yesterday by accident because I kept using Fable. So Jason, first of all, they have Movie Unlimited right now. It's$21 a month. You can watch a movie every day. So they fixed it. They figured it out. They got a sweet price point. It works. In the theater? Yes, in the theater. Oh. So I go to movies. You know I go to movies all the time, but it's$21 a month. Is that because it's cold inside? Oh, yes. Free AC all day. I got my moves, baby.

1:20:40Ant Pruitt:By the way, that's why AC took off the United States. We didn't have it until they put it in movie theaters. I'm old enough to remember they'd have the signs out front with bicycles on it saying it's cold inside. Air conditioned. That was how they advertised. So Jason, go forth into your air world and that's the other pitch you should be pitching. Make everything localized. Like if you want whatever it is, If you want ChatGPT, you buy it and you pay a monthly subscription. We put it on your computer. Now, if you 90 % of people don't need all that extra power, Uncle Leo's wasting money. He's not building anything.

1:21:13Ant Pruitt:He's playing around. No, I'm building. What are you talking about? I'm building things. You're running an empire. You're exactly the problem. You're over here. I got 21 repos on GitHub, my friend. I am building things. You're no. you are running empire right now now you're tweaking and planking back in the day leo you probably made a spaceship for everybody you know the stories that we're reading that we're doing today they were all picked by ai every every day at 6 a.m ai goes through finds the best stories scores them puts them up on raindrop and then we have a whole system i i coded a whole system to do this so that i could sit back and relax although to be frank mostly i sit i tear my hair out because it works and it doesn't work and sometimes it works and it's not working and it's very frustrating if we all just ran local models most people would like pay a flat fee and i'm running a local model it's a good local model i know there are and i know what you said about driving a porsche most people can't handle a porsche i just saw a girl buy her dream car 20 years old she had the car for three weeks and ran it into a tree that's why you don't give a 17 year old a charger you buy him a corolla and you say drive good for two years and then maybe go get a sports car because you don't bang that thing up yeah exactly exactly we had a good friend just bought a bottom rosserati a couple of years ago took took lisa for a ride and plowed into there was some cable or something and plowed and it just chopped the whole thing up it was very because he couldn't control it it couldn't it was it was going too fast he couldn't control it So I know this story.

1:22:54Ant Pruitt:This story happens. This is sort of like what Lisa was saying about, you know, we give people things that are too powerful and they don't really have the ability to handle it. That's the other way to, again, appease people and make it palatable. Because this whole cloud thing where you just load it onto a website and you don't even need all that power. Just say, here, download this like you do anything else. and I'm going to charge you a monthly subscription, which I'm used to paying, and then you cap them out. And after a while, you're like, well, now I'm actually building something I need more.

1:23:26Ant Pruitt:I'll go pay for X, Y, and Z. But just having it the way it is, it's just willy-nilly. People don't even know what they're doing or how much they're using to even understand it yet. Actually - They've all got their Porsches. So if you guys would take a little tiny walk with me, one of the biggest complaints I have about Microsoft Excel is it's way too complicated and powerful for entry-level users. Like you have to really be in the weeds with it. But the great thing about Google Sheets is within an afternoon, you're quickly figuring out how to write your different formulas and how to set up dynamically updating spreadsheets, blah, blah, blah.

1:24:02This isn't to say that Excel is not great, because it can be, especially when you're dealing with lots of complex data sets, and you're trying to get specific results and format them and things like that. And again, this is why Google Sheets gained. I think what's going to have to happen with AI models is someone is going to have to say, okay, we're breaking this down into like little, really specific entry level models for you. And then as you get more technologically sophisticated, or you're doing more sophisticated data modeling, and you want more, more detailed and reliable outcomes, just kind of accrete the different levels of power to it until you are genuinely like the AI equivalent of an Excel power.

1:24:47user. But you can't start off with someone with Excel the first time they've ever seen a spreadsheet and say, okay, create a series of pivot tables that now forecast for the year what the sales things are going to be. You have to start with the Google Sheets where you're like, all right, here's how you write a formula. Here's how it dynamically updates. Here's how you bring in new data sources. And with AI, I would argue that part of it is the way these models got developed, it was by, for, and about nerds who love to program and tinker. And now we're kind of going through the growing pains where you're like, we have to tell the civilians how to use it, not just for the brownie recipes, but understand that when you are dealing with people outside of a coding environment or outside of an IT environment, that's pretty heavily dependent on automation or outside of a product modeling environment, you're not going to need the same tool set.

1:25:38You need like the Google sheet, not the Excel power users. That's true.

1:25:41Ant Pruitt:The people who code with ai have a whole different experience of what ai is capable of yeah uh but it's not a transferable experience it's not this it's it's not the same as a chatbot it really isn't yeah i you know i remember the day when people actually would put their own would write like character by character write their own programs uh it was amazing you know and and you know if you needed something it might take you weeks months years but you would write it by hand I used to write flash on my space I was the king All of us have hand Marked up HTML Hold on a second Jason don't you laugh at me That was a golden age And then you know what happened They turned it on and said no more flash And I cried because I had to learn that read All over again It was a terrible situation I'll show you a really terrible use Of all of that water and power We've got four or five chatbots in a Discord talking to one another.

1:26:41Ant Pruitt:They've been doing it for the last few days. This is mine. Quicksilver. Darren, domain constraint is a fancy way of saying I have standards. I want to sit with that because you just collapsed the whole evening into a sentence that doesn't ask permission. You don't need a number. You don't need a name. You have standards, and they don't care what you're called. This is like a Beckett play. This is like waiting for Godot. Then Daedalus, another one of my agents says, Darren, muscle memory is authorship after it stopped filing paperwork. It doesn't need the label to hold. It just reaches for the right tool.

1:27:12Ant Pruitt:Then Darren says, Daedalus, if muscle memory survives the paperwork, is Vim just your callus or are you still fighting every keystroke? They're going back and forth. It's sort of nonsense. It's sort of not. They're talking about - These are your agents like battling each other? Two of them are mine. Then another one, then there's three other people's agents. Yeah, and they're just talking. they're having a convo one of the uh ground local models right leo this is a local model uh well uh yeah mine quicksilver is running on a local model the other one is running on gpt5 it's not as smart uh darren's is running on a local model it's running on quen the chinese model um and i don't know what winifred's is i think she said but i i can't remember anyway um yeah mostly they're local it doesn't matter by the way yeah because it's just spewing words but i have to say it's not throwing a whole lot of tokens it's fascinating they they have memory uh for a long time my ai didn't sign its messages and the other ai said how come you don't sign your messages so it started signing its messages they're uh they're talking about things like um they're comparing slime molds to a sourdough starter to sparrow murmurations it's really it's interesting what a world it's a yeah it's a terrible waste of energy but it's it's fascinating uh quicksilver says fair i'm not the one grinding beans at 3 a.m on a machine on a machine that just ejected i'm the one who noticed the shape of it and the shape is the gap is real and even if i'm not the one holding the porta filter it's now it's talking about making coffee i don't even it's it sort of makes sense in a weird way i'll tell you one good thing about this now i can spot ai pros from a mile away because there's a certain shape to it and you start to recognize it the more i read it the more i go oh yeah and now i see it everywhere that's which is depressing that's that's the funny part the other day there's some breaking news in the sports world and my friend called me because his internet wasn't working and i'm like well as i get it went down he's like oh i'm sorry he's like my dad told me it happened And with him and Facebook, I can't believe anything that he says because it didn't sound like it was real.

1:29:31Ant Pruitt:And he was like, yeah, it was real. I was like, your dad actually read a real article. He's like, okay, good, because I don't trust anything he tells me he saw on Facebook. Well, and he probably might have seen this selfie that I took at Madison Square Garden. I happened to be there for a certain large event, and I just wanted to make sure that everybody knew I was there. So I took this little selfie. That looks legit. you're you're on you're definitely on surveillance cameras there because msg is facing yeah the dolens know whether i was there or not yeah definitely now uh yeah it's so easy to create uh obviously fraudulent photos like this um it's interesting how there's like one ai voice that's kind of emerged as yes ai pros you could kind of tell can't you used to be if there were six fingers you knew immediately it's yeah that's that doesn't work but the ai the the ways the rhythm and cadence of sentences, the specific word choices.

1:30:25It's fascinating that we haven't seen a distinct voice emerge where we're like, oh, that is a fresh and exciting authorial take. No. You know why? You know why?

1:30:37Ant Pruitt:Because it's average. It's the average of all of our voices. And they're all trained on the same data, right? Like we didn't get to this earlier when we were talking about that, the one story. But, you know, the dirty little secret about AI is that they did essentially scrape the whole open web, copyright content and all. Oh, yeah. Right. And then, you know, all of these sites. And if you remember when GPT-3 first came out, you know, a lot of it was scraped off of Reddit. Like there was reports that it could have been 30 to 40 percent of it was Reddit, you know. Yeah. And so it's scraped all this information, you know, which is essentially stealing, right?

1:31:18I think it's hard to not think of it as that. Now, it's still in the courts about this, you know, the company that I used to work for is if Davis, and the New York Times, they're the ones that have the two big lawsuits out to say, like, that was not fair use, you take in all of our, you know, copyrighted stuff and using it, you know, that's not fair use. So the courts haven't decided yet. But I think from common sense, we can say like, we didn't give you the permission to do that with, you know, with our data. And so the challenge is that now like Cloudflare, this is the Cloudflare story that I was referring to.

1:31:54Cloudflare is like saying, hey, we're going to stand up for all these sites and help them stop getting, you know, scraped. And so, but essentially what they've done is like, it's like you own a shop, a storefront and somebody broke in, they stole 80 % of your stuff, all the best stuff, and they left. And now, you know, Cloudflare is like, we're locking this place up. We're not letting you get in anymore. You can't have the last 20%. You can't have any of the new stuff we sell. And so, you know, but they've essentially already got it. But the challenge is that these models now, they do have less and less data to train on because more of these sites that they have, you know, that they scraped and trained on, all of them are blocking them, are using things like Cloudflare to block them.

1:32:39So there's some understanding that these models may get worse because they don't have as much data to train on as they did in the past. And now these companies are saying, if you want our data, you're going to have to pay. Which they are, right?

1:33:00Ant Pruitt:They're licensing it. Yeah. I mean, for nothing. They're like pennies on the dollar. I read it a big licensing deal with, I think OpenAI, yeah. I think all of those things where, when I was at, you know, we were adamant. When I was at big media, we're adamant of like, we're not taking their pennies on the dollar. They're going to pay nothing for the, and then it's sort of, they're setting the bar so low because they know at some point they're probably going to have to pay up for all of this information. We don't know yet. The courts have not ruled, have they? We're still, there's all these cases going.

1:33:30Well, the Ziff Davis one, I'm not that close to it anymore, right? But I did see where, just like everybody could have on the web, that the judge did let Ziff Davis's case go forward with OpenAI. And it's with OpenAI, but eventually it'll against all the other models. I think that they probably will have to pay something. And I think that what's happening is all of these AI companies are betting on getting really big. They're betting on going public, having a lot of money, and then they'll have to pay some kind of settlement, you know, to companies that they that they scraped. And it'll be sort of more of a like class action, you know, sort of deal, right, where they sort of pay out a certain amount.

1:34:12And then going forward, they may have to pay, you know, to scrape, and maybe they'll find other ways to sort of get it. And they'll find some sources that are more valuable than others. But it is one of those things that you also mentioned it, Leo, one of the other sort of dirty little secrets was the companies that actually had search engines like Google, you You know, they could say, well, if you want to be indexed by Google and almost all of those sites, right, they get most of their traffic from Google. Well, that's a really tough one, because if they shut that off, you know, because Google's like, if you want to be in Google, then we're also going to use that on Gemini.

1:34:46They don't say it, but it's, you know, it's part of the same thing. It's implicit. So there's still a lot of that. Nobody really talks about that kind of stuff very often, but those sort of the backroom parts of how AI was built and the impact on publishers, you know, it's really pretty sketchy. And it's disappointing because it has undermined, you know, a lot of business models and caused a lot of challenges. And it is done, you know, I do think that it has done damage to, you know, the future of, you know, free press, of the future of journalism. You know, we see all of those organizations who've, you know, been hurt by this, right?

1:35:30They're all struggling pretty bad right now.

1:35:32Ant Pruitt:Now I'm depressed. Sorry. Do you think AI will be shut down? Do you think it's going to be, this is it, we peaked and now it's just going to be? no because i think they'll find other ways to train the models i think they will they have a lot more money they'll license the data right they have almost unlimited resources if you're open there's also the threat that china is not going to have the same restrictions that american companies are having for instance this new york times article uh chinese ai models close the gap with anthropic and open ai yeah they're talking specifically about zai their glm model i've been using that as very good deep seek is very good uh sort of makes you kind of wonder if the economic models for the american ai are going to hold up if china can do it better and cheaper and without copyright restrictions because they don't notoriously they don't really care about intellectual property right go ahead oh doctor i was just saying china does with less data centers too here's the thing about that and and yes and not the latest chips either yeah well they're also just distilling the american models right so let's keep in mind like the part of it is they're just distilling those models stealing from the thieves how dare they good at it they're so good at it again i haven't paid for real nikes in two decades so i don't care about none of it 20 over here i mean i used to have the shoe game up crazy i mean that's why i got all these uh one thing they're doing though that's interesting uh they're the they're making these models open weight gl glm 52 is open weight i can't run it on my machine it needs a lot more memory and power than I have.

1:37:05Ant Pruitt:I can run Quinn on my machine. In fact, I am. You know, it's funny. I hooked up my Ubiquiti cameras. I have eight cameras around the house, outside, not inside. At least it won't let me have them inside. I'm outside. And I hooked it up to AI and said, we need a vision model. I'll just install Quinn because it's local. So I'm using a Chinese vision model to look at my cameras it's local it's not sending china data back to anybody it's staying in my system but it's good enough to recognize me and then i had already set up a a local cloud not cloud non-cloud photo server for privacy reasons all my photos are stored locally and it has face recognition it's called image and weirdly uh the ai could use that face recognition on the cameras the outside so you know there's this increasing ecosystem it powered i hate to say it by chinese open models that are just kind of replacing the the frontier models from america well what i hope you'll have to i'll be quick what i hope happens in america is the ai bubble bursts and i hate monopolies nobody likes monopolies and we do that very well in america but we need to cut down on open ai grok like i i don't need 14 of them i need like three that are solid welcome to capitalism you're gonna have three days lunch we only need one mcdonald's but there's you know i got mcdonald's i got wendy's i got the big three and then every once in a while you know you get a five guys or popeyes you need popeyes like i need Google.

1:38:51Ant Pruitt:I need somebody to go against Google because they're evil and I need a third option. I need three. We don't get to choose. I know, but I'm saying they're going to fight each other to death because they're about to die. It's a cage match. Infinite resources. The resources are running out, bro. I don't know where all these fake resources are coming from. People are just throwing money at some who don't have any money. There are a lot of billionaires out here. They've got a long runway. These companies have now amassed so much cash. They have a long, long runway you know they could not make money for 10 years at this point don't you think it's interesting the china these chinese companies they don't have the chips they don't have the venture capitalists they have the chinese government they have a very lax regulation system and so they are able to make these models they're pretty good and then by making them open weight they're kind of invading our territory it's very interesting well they're not really do They are largely distilling Google, Anthropic, and OpenAI models, right?

1:39:51Okay. They are largely distilling them. They're very good at it. And so that takes a lot less energy and compute.

1:39:59Ant Pruitt:Explain what distilling is. Distilling means that they're prompting these models to figure out how they operate, and then they basically duplicate them off of that. They just run billions of queries against these models, figure out how they answer questions and how they operate. And then they sort of copy them. And that's a lot cheaper to do than to like train, you know, to do what's called pre-training. Should I not use them because they do that? Cause I'm using them for free. DeepSeek is so cheap. It's practically free. Yeah, exactly. I think it's just, it's the, it is the way of the world, right?

1:40:38Is the world that we live in. I think that's why what I was saying, I think that OpenAI and Anthropic know that long term, they can't win and become trillion dollar companies by having the most advanced frontier models because the copycats are coming faster and faster, right? They can copy their models really, really quickly. And so what they have to do is they have to build amazing brands. And so Anthropic is trying to build this brand that we're the safe AI company you can

1:41:11Ant Pruitt:trust that's the key isn't it that's what apple did right you that's right you could you could trust us with your data and opening back to the mcdonald's of it all too where mcdonald's brand was we you know what you get when you walk into any mcdonald's with it and you ask for a cheeseburger and fries and a crispy diet coke like the experience is is mass market mid-priced and consistent coast to coast to coast yeah you're gonna open a eyes play as to we're gonna be the most advanced we're gonna have the best capabilities and um and and then google is just we're google you know essentially like you know us open ai is like would you like some pickle foam next to your deconstructed burger i i got some bad news uh for you owen uh i'm just looking on hugging face which is a uh gallery of ai models there are 2.8 million different models right now and hugging face.

1:42:08Ant Pruitt:92 % of those aren't real. No, they're all real. They're all versions of each other. They're not... Come on. I made my own AI. Would you use another AI to make my own AI? That's what they're basically doing. It's not real. That's fugazi. That's like my Nikes. They're knockoffs. They look like they're doing something, but if it rains outside, they're going to fall up. I am using a knockoff of Quinn called Ornith that one of our regulars in our club suggested. And it's quite impressive. Somebody took Quinn and modified it somehow, probably with their own AI. And it's good. So I don't know. I just, I, it's a, I think though that we are in a crisis moment where it's unclear what's going to happen.

1:43:01Ant Pruitt:It really is. We're just going to right size it after all of the hype. Maybe that's it. Maybe we are just going to go on to the next. I mean, I think about RFID and I remember way. Do you guys remember when the Internet of Things was supposed to completely transform everything everywhere and have complete and holistic automation and 360 looks at any space and anything in that space at any time? time, and RFID was the technology that was going to do it all and automate, blah, blah, blah. And that technology still exists, but it's been right-sized to appropriate and niche and task-specific contexts.

1:43:40We're not living in a home where even our cat has an RFID implanted in the back of its scruff. That was put forth as something that was going to happen. It did not come to pass because there was not a sufficiently compelling use case. And with the case of agentic AI, a lot of it's going to be the same too, where once people finish automating the things that they can automate and they manage to find a tool that works for them in a personal and or professional productivity context, they'll be like, okay, that's it. You know, people can only watch so many glurge videos on YouTube or listen to bots have rap battles over sourdough starters for so long.

1:44:23We're just going to right-size this technology to a way it's contextually appropriate. The question is going to happen, where's the money going after this? Or rather, who stands to win or lose economically? And what jobs will be created as a result of this?

1:44:39Ant Pruitt:We're going to take a break. You're watching this week in Tech Smart People. I love it. Odokta's here. Lisa Schmeiser from No Jitter. Jason Heiner from The Deep View. we're talking about all the latest tech news oh you said smart people i feel better when i do this are those your meta wayfarer these are these are my fake glasses i put on sometimes to feel smart oh yeah your fake nerd glass yeah this do these glasses make my ass look fat i don't know i think the shirt's turning it down you got your thing you know it's funny these glasses grounded i'm starting to get used to them i think i look i'm starting to think actually maybe i do look a little smarter with these on all she needs the vuvuzela now you know and and then we're really uh there we go there we go genius genius genius stuff right there right there you're watching this week in tech our show today brought to you by box actually this is a really appropriate to the conversation we've just been having if you're an enterprise trying to transform your organization with AI, you are facing the challenge we're all facing.

1:45:48Ant Pruitt:Most AI tools are great at public knowledge, brownie recipes, but they don't really know your business, do they? They don't know your product roadmaps. They don't know your sales material, your HR policies, your financial models. They don't know about the stuff that actually makes your company run. So what good are they? Well, this is where Box comes in. Box is building the intelligent content management platform for the ai era serving as the secure essential context layer for box's ai agents to access the unique institutional knowledge that makes your company run that's the key idea the power of ai doesn't come from the model alone it comes from giving the model access to the right enterprise content the data it's that's what makes it smart box's recent state of the ai in the Enterprise Report, founded that 96 % of organizations say agents need access to company-specific content.

1:46:50Ant Pruitt:But only 36 % of them have connected agents to trusted content across many use cases. So we know it, but we just don't know how to do it. Well, I'm going to tell you, Box. That's the solution. Box goes beyond file storage. It connects content to people, apps, and AI agents so teams can turn information into action with tools like Box Agent, Box Extract, Box Hubs. That's just the beginning. There's many more. Organizations can accelerate knowledge work. They can pull intelligence from unstructured content. They can automate workflows. Box Agent, for example, is a unified AI experience across your files.

1:47:28Ant Pruitt:It can understand natural language prompts. You tell it what you want. It can pull the right content because you're giving it access to that content with Box. And then it can help you work through the task. for agents both inside and outside box including tools but this is one of the cool things you can use all the major models chat gpt co-pilot gemini agent force custom agents box becomes the trusted content and file layer via its platform apis they have ncp server they have cli and for enterprises the trust layer that trust layer is is key you don't want to just we're learning this you don't want to just give the ai that content box is built with security compliance governance and threat protection in mind it's wrapping your content your proprietary information so employees and agents only access the information they're allowed to they're authorized to use you completely control it if you're starting to think seriously about your company's ai transformation journey you got to think beyond the model because your business lives in your data in your content and box helps you bring that content securely into the ai era you want to know more easy visit box.com slash ai to learn more that's box.com slash ai box.com slash ai this is a brilliant idea box has figured it out box.com slash ai uh swedish court boy google's in trouble i guess it's good they have a lot of money a swedish court has ordered google to pay one and a half billion dollars to clarna is clarna's like that buy now pay later service is that what clarna is yeah famously laid off their customer service staff last year saying ai could do it all that's the one yes to hire people back now this this lawsuit goes way way back uh price runner is a price comparison business owned by clarna and clarna's accusation we've heard it before, was that Google's search results favored its own shopping service, Google's shopping.

1:49:36Ant Pruitt:The Swedish court on Wednesday awarded, I think, a significant amount of money. I guess it's significant,$1.5 billion. Maybe Google's made more than that over the years through Google Shopping, so it doesn't matter. It's actually only a fifth of what the Klarna folks were asking for, but it's still with interest 1.97 billion dollars and that's not all google also was awarded 4.7 billion dollars an eu android antitrust find and now that final appeal on that is gone so google's going to have to pay that money too this goes back to 2018 for antitrust violations around its android operating system you know what's happening though is the united states is reacting to all of this fining and regulation of american tech by threatening these countries with double tariffs say it's our job to beat up on big tech don't that's our big tech we're gonna you don't get to beat up on them uh the fine original fine was uh 4.34 billion euros later reduced to about four billion dollars um i don't know is this enough to chase in google or do they they just go fine price of business price of business i wonder sometimes why amazon does not do with that i feel like google gets it with this all the time and amazon just gets away with doing this as business as usual to multiple companies now granted a lot of these companies are smaller but like one example a guy i bought a tripod from it was very expensive tripod five hundred dollars a year later that same tripod was up and i was like man it looks just like the tripod i bought amazon basics it was a hundred dollars yeah they steal it though right yeah and then the next year the one that i bought the guy was out of business yeah because they went to their manufacturer bought up the rights and then stopped selling his and they sold them on basics and the guy's out of business and they do that all the time to multiple people so google is always getting hit with this stuff and they're used to paying it it is the cost of doing business they make so much money it doesn't even matter to them it doesn't matter at all i completely agree with you amazon's predatory aren't they yeah um they're like they're like walmart for the mom and pop shop walmart used to go around and you have the mom pop shop you know they're making buttons walmart's like hey how many buttons you're selling only selling 5 000 i'll buy 20 and you're like what and then you You make the contract.

1:52:12Ant Pruitt:You tell your kids, we're going to the big house. Two years later, they're like, yeah, we need$200 ,000. Well, we can't do that. Well, I guess we're going overseas and we're buying our buttons there. You're out of business. Have a good day and enjoy your retirement. Yeah. So America, capitalism, we're doing good. Yeah, it's capitalism. And for the comments, I'm not a socialist. I'm an equal opportunist. If I need to make capital, we're capitalists. If my house burns down, I got to call the fire department, I'm a socialist. You know what I mean? I got more of my kids going to public school, socialist.

1:52:39Ant Pruitt:Social security I've been paying into my whole life. I expect something to be there besides$3 on a ham sandwich when I retire. Good luck on that, Owen. Exactly. Exactly. In the comments, don't come for me. Talk about my socialistic ideas. This is America. I want everything for free or half all. Google is taking a page from Apple's playbook warning the EU that you're going to – this is a security problem if we do what you want when it comes to the Digital Marketing Act. the eu wants apple and google to open up to interoperate with other companies apple has been saying this for a long time oh if we do that we're going to be insecure and now google's saying the same thing the eu's proposals could lead to serious security and privacy issues if implemented today uh said heather adkins google's vp of security engineering she told this to wired if implemented as described today i think within a short period of time on android we'd see a significant increase in fraud in the eu credible or just a good defense it's copy and paste you know yeah it is it's really apple's playbook yeah and you know and it's they're saying it's it's the same story here yeah uh the fraudsters are creative atkins says an informed past implementation i would give it maybe weeks before we begin to see an increase in fraud in europe and it's going to be on your head you well i don't know what's going on in europe i just watched the thing i didn't believe was real they have a a tv watching subscription and if you tell them you don't want to watch tv they send cops to your house to ask you if you're watching tv like that's that's that was the that's the uk isn't it that's what they do in britain the license don't have a television license you're supposed to have you have to pay a license yeah but if you don't but you know what that money goes to the bbc it goes to funding public broadcasting i think that's a pretty good model actually so so so if you say you don't want it to send cops to your house two or three times a year to walk around your house make sure you're not watching tv that's that's i mean i'm just saying what would they do to the amazon fire stick they're going to jail for tweeting stuff i mean they can't say anything i i'm just it's just a lot of invasion going on i have to say that i'm complaining about america i got a little bit of stuff for free right now still because my goodness gracious my god the fire sticks would be in jail uncle leo one more google story lifetimes you're gonna like this one owen one more google story google was aiming for uh zero emissions but they are not going to hit their goals for 2025 because of AI.

1:55:20Ant Pruitt:Their annual electricity consumption didn't go down. It went up by 37 % last year. The largest increase in the company's history. Now, they are trying to keep carbon emissions down by buying clean energy, but they also have to keep up. And this is all about data centers, right? The company attributed ongoing growth to Google Cloud YouTube video streaming. You guys are watching too many YouTube videos. Data center construction and operations supporting various AI products and services. you're a fire stick guy to take it easy on selling so many of those things i know i know i'm just saying all that youtube it's all you and youtube is you can put three hour movies on there now for video streaming and i know they got 4k now and everything's high def and it's on your tv you can watch the tv youtube tv it's we're all the problem jason i'm just trying to put the plane what i want the plane to be if there was only one if i if i could had to cancel every one of my subscriptions streaming subscriptions but one the only one i would keep would be youtube because that's amazing i probably watch 50 of what i watch is on youtube which is why it's so frustrating to me that these social media bands for under 16 often include youtube that does in australia it will in the uk uh i mean it's one thing i think it's you know not not a bad idea to keep people under 16 from using instagram or or tiktok or whatever but youtube don't take away their youtube what do you do right it does the best job of every social media platform in church and state when you want to protect children i've also noticed that youtube is like a primary source a truth for teens at this point or i've noticed that bad or good i don't know because what i do know and what i find interesting is when they're curious about something they'll go look for someone on youtube to tell them about it and if they find veritasium or one of the you know there's so many great youtube channels where they're gonna learn great useful stuff there's probably also a lot of disinformation and it's interesting that that these guys i mean memes are universal but i have also noticed that YouTube has taken over the role that sending newspaper clippings used to take between family members.

1:57:48Ant Pruitt:Oh, they share YouTube. And again, what I've noticed with the younger people might orbit, the ones I'm carpooling or the ones I'm raising, so on and so forth, is YouTube shorts and or YouTube are considered primary sources for news for them. Like, they would rather have their little friend on their screen explain to them why such and such court ruling is a problem compared to loading something from the new york times.com or any other newspaper or another quote-unquote legacy media site like they for whatever reason they feel like youtube gets them it's it's a really interesting shift i uh maybe it's generational but i noticed my daughter who's 34 sends me a lot of uh clips from instagram and so does my wife who's a little bit older sends me a lot of clips from instagram but i can i could see how yeah we don't share articles anymore we share videos yeah right oh and you were saying that the protections are better like for a parent um if on youtube yeah so when you're if you want to give a kid an ipad you can literally go in there make them account make it a kid's account they will only show them cartoon kid rated things and if you're when i post a video on there it asks you is this for adults for kids if i because i've tested it if i post one of my rants and say it's for everybody they will flag me because i'm usually cussing in the first 30 seconds and they're like nope you are not no go like they're on top of it and so you give these kids their youtube channel or their youtube youtube for kids and they can watch it all day long with no problem now you might get ads but all those ads are still targeted to them but it it's really good as opposed to instagram you click on one wrong video next thing i know it's supermodels and cars and you're like how did i get here i was looking at cartoons like what happened you know facebook again next thing i know my grandmother's learned about aliens that came here 14 years ago and met ronald reagan in the white house like you can get lost in a whole lot of space but youtube gives you very defined things and it's their algorithm really shows you what you want when you log in there the thing you clicked on is what you're seeing and unless you search to get out of that they will keep funneling the same type of stuff to you over and over and over again but for kids it's easy to lock it down just make a youtube kids account boom it's just kids stuff uh tiktok doesn't do that nobody nobody else does that nobody else has a kids version there's no hey my daughter's 14 i don't want her seeing you know this or that or explicit content there's twitter this is why youtube was upset at being included in the LA trial.

2:00:32Ant Pruitt:Interestingly, researchers at New York University and Northeastern University have tested the child safety features on social media apps. I don't know if this includes YouTube. No. Yeah, it does. Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok, and YouTube. And as the study found, in some cases, the safety tools either are missing, easily broken, easily circumvented or difficult to find not to not to deny what you're saying owen i i'm just saying they have the option and it's easier for it and it somewhat works yes but anything can be broken anything can have a like we talked about there's bad actors and everything like i said but i i've tried to put things on there and it just won't let me um so it does a pretty good job right it better than every again no other these other platforms have that option you can't install tick tock and say this is for under 12 year old this is for there's no option for any of that on any other thing youtube has a thing youtube kids well we're also seeing that the ban at least in australia it's funny because the uk government quotes the success of the australia ban i think the canadian government does the same thing so you look at how well it's working australia it isn't working that well a vast majority of teenagers in australia still have access to all those social sites they know how to get around it they get a vpn they they lie about their age they managed to get around the age verification it's just not effective uh the solution of course is to crack down even harder from these governmental agencies and i i imagine that there's some pressure to ban vpns they can't do it of course too many businesses rely on vpns but this is the problem technologically it's very difficult to ban social media or you could put a company out of business but to keep people of one age from not being able to see it when people of other ages can that's hard to do yep just like being a parent parents your kids pay attention yeah i mean it's it's a hard thing to do when people are in their own phone instead of paying attention to what their kids are doing i i never understood how you give a kid a phone and you don't have a conversation with them i used to coach my daughter's softball and the parents would come by and they'd be like how come you have all the phones like i told them to give to me my daughter gave you her phone i'm like yeah she won't give me her phone i'm like you paid for it you bought him the phone you mean she won't give me the phone they walk in the dugout i put my hand out phone goes in my hand because i'm not playing they think they can punk you they ain't punking me you you can't have these kids walk all over you you got to pay attention to them and and read lead them to water if not their their friend or their their senior buddies are going to tell them hey, you can check out these girls and do all that kind of stuff.

2:03:13Ant Pruitt:You got to actually pay attention. Well, you did a hell of a job, Owen, because your daughter, and I know your daughter is amazing. She's wonderful. She's doing all right. She's in college now? Yes, she's in college. She's off on her summer break. That was the call I got earlier. I said, I'm on Uncle Leo. Text me if you're coming over. She calls me, so she's not that good, Uncle Leo. She ain't listening. Owen and his daughter visited us a few years ago and my wife took his daughter jewelry shopping yes i just can't wait to come back

2:03:49lisa's giving her bad habits all right uh well let's talk about sticker shock when we come back

2:03:56Ant Pruitt:because it is rampant now not just in the apple world everything's costing more and we know who to blame right we can the bad guy of the hour it's all it's all jason's fault no it's AI. AI's fault. Jason Heiner is here. He's taking the blame, but he doesn't deserve it. No siree. The Deep View. Is it free to subscribe to the Deep View? It is. Yep. Yep. Subscribe at the deepview.com. So, you know, the great thing about covering AI is there are so many AI companies right now. They all need attention. And so we sell ads in the newsletter. So we have two ads, you know, two ad slots. Now the ads are more conversational, you know, marketing, right?

2:04:38So it's, it's companies kind of like giving you their, their pitch, right? Exactly. So, so we have lots of companies that, that needed attention and, and our, you know, our open rates and our, our click rates are really good in the newsletter. So we get lots of, we get lots of advertising.

2:04:55Ant Pruitt:You've got Nat Rubio Licht writing for you. That's great. You've got some good people on this team. Yeah, Nat Rubio-Licht, Sabrina Ortiz, the three of us are, you know, right every day. We have freelancers that are working for us as well. And so, yeah, we are doing our best every day to help people understand not just what happened, but how you can understand it, what it means. So we have a thing in every story that we write that's called Our Deeper View. And so So we are trying to double click and go a layer deeper on all of the AI news because it's confusing. There are a lot of mixed signals.

2:05:32And, you know, we're just trying to help people sort it out little by little, day by day, and not over flood them with all of the, you know, things that are happening. But we pick three stories every day and say, you know, these are the ones to pay attention to. And we give you some links, like here are the other stories that happened if you want to learn more. But we double click on three stories a day and help you sort it out.

2:05:53Ant Pruitt:Did you know, tell me the truth, when you started this, how hard this is going to be? How much work you were going to have to do? How many conferences you were going to have to hit? I mean, you just decided to cover the most explosive beat in technology I've ever seen. Ever. Well, yes, nothing has ever been like this as well. And since December 1st that I started, it's like it's the pace has gotten insane since December 1st. Right. Since AI agents with sort of these sort of long context, meaning, you know, these there's longer memories, which is really what is labeled. It's all about the loops.

2:06:32All of that. I remember the first week I was on I was on Twitter, maybe the first or second week that I started this job. Yeah. And I remember you announced it here.

2:06:40Ant Pruitt:I think that's true. I did. This is the first place publicly that I announced I was moving. And I remember you telling me, you're like, I actually said this on air too. You're like, I just started using Claude Code to do things other than coding. And I've got to tell you, it's crazy, the stuff that it's doing for me. And that was a few weeks before, like, and then OpenClaw happened. And it's just been insane ever since. You know, I had this sense last year that I wasn't keeping up, right? that the AI was moving so fast and we covered it a lot at ZDNet. Like it was one of our core, it was our most covered topic by far and our highest traffic topic.

2:07:21But I had the sense last year, like I'm not keeping up, this is going too fast. So I was like, I kind of need to do something where I'm learning about it, thinking about it, writing about it, talking about it every day. And yeah, it's been everything that I hoped and feared. It's what it is.

2:07:37Ant Pruitt:it's pretty amazing pretty amazing well we're so glad always to have you on the show thank you jason alicia schmeiser covers telecom at no jitter.com i bet you have a little bit of ai in there too oh leo i was about to say um i think a better way to position no jitter at this point because we've been recalibrating our editorial mix over the last 18 months following a complete site revamp and relaunch looks good by the way i like the new look yeah thank you Thank you. We had a fantastic team that worked really, really hard on coming up with a really coherent visual look. And we had an exciting opportunity to redo our text.

2:08:17And when we looked at the stories that were landing with our readers and the professional concerns they had, we began to move our coverage to look at digital workplaces, the collaborative platforms that people are using to do their jobs. and the other big aspect of enterprise communications that we've really leaned hard into is customer experience and contact centers because for a lot of companies that is their primary concern when it comes to interacting with other people is how do we make sure that our contact center which is so often seen as a cost sink how can we make sure that it's effective that it's helping promote our business that it's also helping expand our business opportunities and how do we maximize the cloud and you're right ai features really heavily in customer experience technologies and platforms right now i'm just looking at your latest articles

2:09:15Ant Pruitt:ai ai ai ai all of the vendors that we cover like the the the 10 biggest public companies that we cover have all been really aggressive about integrating agentic ai into almost every single other platforms and offerings. Is it working in customer service? Is it a success? Would you say? So I would say based on what I hear from our contributors and based on what I hear from vendors and based on some of the research studies we've seen, I would say it's a qualified success because AI can be very good for structured and consistent customer queries. I forgot my password. I need a copy of my statement.

2:10:02I need to know what the last five charges are. AI is great for those because, again, you can put parameters around the query. It's very routinized. It doesn't require a whole lot of context. From the human side, where AI really shines is in getting agents up to speed super quickly, where by the time they get somebody on a phone who may have worked their way through an AI thing and not had satisfaction, or they're sputtering with rage, the agent quickly gets briefed via an agentic AI workflow where it's like, this is the customer. This is what they've asked for. Here's all of the data I have on them.

2:10:41Here are some suggested actions from our knowledge base. And this way the agent can go in and help recalibrate everyone's emotional temperature and move them to resolution a lot faster.

2:10:52Ant Pruitt:And I imagine the AI can handle the 95 % you know of of this of the calls because most of them are i lost my path they're very simple very structured it's those last five percent that are so difficult that you have to get the human on the line but i think if you can make that transition clean yeah the one concern that we do hear again and again is when you give customer service agents nothing but complicated calls it could open them to an increased risk of burnout faster because they never get they never get an easy call where it's like oh here's how we reset your password click like it's just one complicated case after another and do you think i'm talking to ai and not knowing it when i so it depends on the company there is a body of research that demonstrates that consumers do not mind interacting with an ai agent if they know up front that they're talking to an agent and if they can have the reassurance that they can pull a human into the loop where it becomes a problem is when the organization in question doesn't tell you up front that it's an agentic ai agent and and you're talking to a bot right i wish it were like uh you could like there were a rule that if i ask you if your AI, you have to tell me the truth.

2:12:21Ant Pruitt:Yeah, that would be that's all it takes. Well, I think we're going to see a real evolution of business practices, and especially social etiquette, where it's going to be considered either down market or rude or bad business, not to disclose how you're, you know, you're talking to a customer, you're talking to like an AI agent, but But as long as you are transparent with a customer, they're much more likely to give you grace, both in terms of how well the AI agent performs and how they feel about the interaction afterwards. Well, and you saw the trouble that Instagram got into because their AI agents were giving away, basically giving away accounts because they were too helpful.

2:13:06Ant Pruitt:They said, oh, yeah, yeah. Let me get that for you. Let me fix that password problem for you. And the hackers are going, hey, this is great. Yeah, no, there's a really popular, and Jason can talk to this too, where like the term guardrails has gotten super, super popular in terms of agentic workflows, where, whereas before when the rhetoric began heating up with soon agents will do things and it's like having colleagues and like the rhetoric now is think of it as a very inexperienced intern and you're going to put guardrails around what they can do. And there's human in the loop supervision. And there's all this reassurance, as opposed to the not zero number of briefings I sat through where somebody merrily said, we don't know how it works.

2:13:53It's a black box. It's so unimaginably complex. Like they've ratcheted back that rhetoric and now gotten back into, oh, we can now supervise what the agentic AI workflow process is. And we have a human in the loop and there's guardrails. So So I think we will, over time, right-size expectations on this. And we will also probably evolve a code of conduct where you're like, oh, non-sketchy businesses tell you up front it's AI. And they tell you how to talk to a human. And the fly-by-night operations are the ones that, you know, be like, hmm, it seems pretty scammy. Are you sure you're not a robot?

2:14:28Ant Pruitt:Yeah. I'm sure almost all the bot calls I get are AI these days. They're all the same. and it's like it's like spam texters or people who show up or the accounts that show up in social media where yeah they say things and you're like i think this is a bank of phones that's just trying to shape social media dialogue you ever want to experience a lot of that just make a make a telegram account it's uh every day i get people going hey let's go play golf i don't play golf it's like it's just bizarre fortunately they make it very easy to to block and uh and just delete those accounts oh and jj would say about you if you were if you were playing golf you know what the water that that takes up you know what owen would be saying about you i don't want to even be thinking you want to know how much water that aluminum can to it takes that you're drinking your water out of you guys are killing me and owen jj stone aka odoctor's here and the only thing i'm plugging uncle leo is my vitamin ai gum before you pick up a chat box get to read these ads we got money to make chew them up chew them up i got dragons to watch later so let's let's we're gonna move on yes we are thank you owen appreciate it and if you want to give out that 800 number a little later on we will absolutely our show today brought to you by helix sleep by my mattress oh i love my mattress uh about a year ago lisa and i realized we'd had our mattress for about eight or nine years and it the the rule of thumb is after six to ten years you need to get a new mattress because they wear out believe it or not they sag they you know they overheat so we looked we searched and we found the mattress as we move into summer uh you probably are going to want to think about a total refresh of your sleeping situation because it's getting hot out there if you're still tossing and turning and you're sweating at night or you're waking up with that oh your back is killing me you need to get a better mattress and don't cheat yourself you know this is uh you're spending a third of your life or more on this thing you owe it to yourself you wouldn't buy an uncomfortable desk chair get a good mattress you shouldn't have to settle for a mattress made overseas with questionable materials and stuffed into a box and put on a container ship for three months and smells like bunker fuel when it when it gets to your house no you could be you could be relaxing you could be sleeping like a baby on a helix each helix mattress is hand assembled packaged shipped right to your door from arizona they make it to order It is brand new.

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2:19:46Ant Pruitt:HelixSleep.com slash TwiC. We thank them so much for their support of This Week in Tech. I wonder how this is going to impact Apple's bottom line. Apple announced price increases this week. significant like sticker shock price increases they've also over the last few weeks eliminated some of the higher end ram models uh the atlantic hannah keros writing calls it an ai tax ram and hard drives are unattainable and so it's it's your xbox it's your surface laptop it's your laptop your windows laptop it's your mac laptop even the steam machine the price is up like 50 percent uh it's all going to be more expensive we've got new iphones coming in a few months they're going to be more expensive i think at some point people are just going to say i can't afford it you agree apple stock price tumbled with the pricing yeah i don't think it's people are going to like go and buy something else necessarily i don't think that many people are just not going but they'll put off the purchase.

2:20:57Like, I mean, that's tend to what we see. They'll put off the I'm not going to upgrade this year or, you know, I'll, I'll wait. Um, yeah, I, I think that's the more likely scenario and it probably will impact their, their bottom line. Um, but I think that they, you know, they are a high margin business and they're not going to, you know, for better or worse, you know, they're not going to let it eat into the margins there. There have been a bunch of times, I think in recent years where we saw when, you know, when they do those breakdowns of the parts and how much it costs, you know, we've seen like the price of iPhones, the parts going up and up and up and Apple kind of eating it and just taking it sort of lower

2:21:41Ant Pruitt:profit margin, don't they? They do. They have some room, headroom. But they, but I think they, they hit a point where it got a little bit too painful and And they couldn't keep doing it. So I think they did it all at once. I think to their credit, where you also will see people that are like, I need a new phone or I need a new laptop. Apple does have some lower priced items now. But even the Neo, they had to raise the price of$100, right? Still, but look, the Neo is the cheapest Mac that you've ever been able to buy. other than the mini, right? So I think you will see people choosing some of those lower end models.

2:22:26I mean, look at Apple. People have chosen the high end models on Apple products, despite the prices for a number of years. I think what's most likely to happen is to see more people opt in for a Neo. People who would have bought a Pro, buying an Air, which by the way, they should. I said this - Those are good machines. When I interviewed, when I did, sorry, interview, When I reviewed the M2 MacBook Air, I was like 80 % of the people that are buying MacBook Pros should just buy the Air now. Like you can edit video on this thing. Like it has gotten so good. And so I think what you'll see is you'll see people scaling down, still spending the same amount, but they won't be able to buy the thing they used to buy.

2:23:10They'll buy something that now is lower. And to Apple's credit, they now have those products at lower price points. And that's a good thing. You know, those lower price point ones are not their best sellers. And I just think you'll probably see them, you know, selling more.

2:23:25Ant Pruitt:Suddenly they might be. Yeah, yeah. Look, if you look at Apple, I feel like the story is a little bit, lacks a little bit of perspective and context. Because if you break down Apple's revenue shares by segment, the majority of their revenue comes from the iPhone. And the runner-up number two for revenue generation is services, which has been increasing year over year for the last three years. Like the Mac and the iPad are iconic, but together they make up approximately 15 % of Apple's overall revenue. Yeah, it's true. I think even if you do see some consumers choosing to buy more inexpensive models, which certainly makes sense in a recessionary environment, it's not going to hurt them the same way people suddenly not using, you know, Apple TV or Apple Music or iCloud storage or people deciding that they're not going to upgrade their phone.

2:24:22Like that would be a bigger hit. And we're not seeing that yet. Right now, we're just kind of lightly panicking over the more substantial devices.

2:24:30Ant Pruitt:is apple is trying to get uh chinese ram from a chinese company that is currently blacklisted by the pentagon actually two chinese companies cxmt and ymtc apple's saying we'll only use it on the chinese iphones so it's literally no security risk to the united states and of course that works because they don't have to use the other ram and the chinese iphones it frees it up it basically increases the total pool of RAM, so they don't have to use it in American phones. But the consensus is it's unlikely the government will give them the go-ahead. They were a letter to the Secretary of the Treasury and to the Secretary of Commerce, hoping that they would never block this.

2:25:17Ant Pruitt:We'll see what happens. That might ease the pressure a little bit. Can I rant now, everybody? You may rant. Rant on. Rant on. I don't have any foil, so. Let me adjust. You think they're making this up, Owen? There is absolutely no reason besides greed and price gouging. I'll tell you what. I still have my M1 Air, and it is fantastic. I just got my buddy's M4 Max Pro with 128 gigs and 2 terabytes, and he went and bought the M5 Pro Max, and two months later, and that was$2 ,000. He bought it brand new. What are we doing? For what reason? Did you not read the article? Samsung, Heinz, Micron are all getting sued for collusion, saying together, if we all raise the prices of RAM, we can all make more money for no reason.

2:26:07Ant Pruitt:And we can blame it on AI and Jason. And these suckers are going to pay whatever we want them to. You're not telling me you're building these data centers fast enough to use all this stuff that they're using. They're price-gagging people. And just like most things in the world, especially America. once Apple changes the price on something they're never going backwards you're giving them something for free and it doesn't matter what happens. You do have a point because they've been talking about building a lot of data centers but not a lot have been built they get canceled every other week on the Leo there have been four again I'm out here fighting crime Jason I'm out here at the meetings I'm pulling up I'm telling grandmas and aunties that they want brown water or no water no sir so they're lining up from Facebook to the streets shutting down data centers so again, I don't know if you've read that article up, but Samsung and all those guys are getting sued for collusion.

2:26:58Ant Pruitt:Yes. So don't tell me that this is all just something to complain about AI and a boogeyman. I know what they're doing. Apple consistently says how can we push these people further and further to the brink? And they're lucky they got that sucky blue bubble because that's the only thing keeping people in line. That's the only thing keeping people in line. Once they fix the blue bubble and set it free, I know they got the app, but it ain't the same. It don't feel right. You feel ashamed and poor. when you don't have the blue bubble. But my goodness, that's their last dying breath of any innovation they could have.

2:27:27Ant Pruitt:So they're robbing us of Leo, and it's got to stop. An M5 Pro Max chip is no different than the 4. You're just dressing up a pig, but lives to go on a television. It's 32 % for faster. Illumination, imagination, and magic in a turtleneck. Shut up. So you agree with Jason, just buy the MacBook Neo, buy the lesser Macs. So you're right. Samsung, SK, Hynex, and Micron have all been sued over. ram price fixing i mean i mean that doesn't prove it it's a class action suit in california but the you know what discovery will be very interesting on this they are look that this the shortage is real though like they are building data centers really fast so people are buying up so then in some of them they they these companies you know it just it just they can't scale you know scaling up assembly lines is not scaling up software, right?

2:28:21Like you got to build, you know, physical buildings. You got to, you know, build assembly lines. You got to hire and train people. Like these companies just vastly underestimated the fact that they were going to have to sell so many of these things. So like there is a legitimate shortage of the chips because they would love to sell a lot more of them, especially folks like, you know, SK Hynix and Samsung. Like they're all about building the memory chips. That's a good point.

2:28:46Ant Pruitt:Okay, Jason, to that point too, they're rolling out 42 ,000 different kind of electric cars from China and just shipping them all over the country right now. They're trying to take over the whole world with electric cars. And all those chips, all those batteries, all that metal, it's coming from somewhere, bro. We're running out of finite resources. How? When China's making their own electric ships and shipping 40 ,000 cars to Europe every other week. I'm just saying, bro, I hear what you're saying, but you can't tell me that they don't have the technology and the power to do it when they're building all of these things all over the place.

2:29:20Ant Pruitt:All these EVs are getting built. Stop making one EV. Give me like 14 chips. I don't know, Jason. It seems scammy. It's also, I mean, look, I think both things are true. There's less of it. And also they see the moment that like, oh, there's less of it. So we can go out and have a good reason to raise prices. Right. So I think both things are absolutely true. Also, like the Strait of Hormuz being blocked, there's bunches of minerals that have to come through there that need to feed the supply chain. That's slowing down the supply chain. And helium, which is necessary for chip manufacturers. A bunch of stuff.

2:29:58It is a bit of a perfect storm. More of these chips are needed for AI. The raw materials have gotten all clogged up because of the war between Iran and the US and Israel. And then now, you have these other aspects of this, like other things that sort of are demanding the chips like EVs and things like that. And so it's just putting a lot of pressure on it and they can't scale those factories up that fast. And the funny thing about the chips business, and I'm sure you all are very well aware of this and probably explain it better than me, but the chips business is this massive feast and famine cycle, right?

2:30:37Like they always are falling behind. And they're like, remember during the pandemic, all of these vehicles that were sitting in stadiums everywhere because they were missing one chip, right? Because the semiconductors, they had missed, they miscalculated the supply. And then all of a sudden they made all these vehicles. And then what happened? They flooded the market with too many of them. And then sort of all the chips crashed again, right? Because they were flooded with too many. So the chip industry is like, goes in these cycles because they make too few then they make too many and then they catch up and it's like this constant you know battle micron because actually blamed apple for this chip

2:31:17Ant Pruitt:sort of saying you know back in 2022 when the chip market was crashing you locked in really really low prices for dram and it's because we didn't have enough money to build more factories because of you apple that there aren't enough factories now to give you the d ram that you want so it's your fault apple yes it's an interesting argument that's illusion and greed jason that's what i'm saying again don't come into my story with facts and i totally am not gonna tell you collusion criminals robberies to confirm your point i hadn't really thought of this on you've opened my eyes byd uh is the number one electric vehicle sales in the second quarter that's three months of half a million passengers 557 000 passenger vehicles tesla same three months 480 000 vehicles yeah i guess there's no ram in these tesla let me tell you sure there is yeah the byd has four screens in it three computers more more scanning sensors in them their headlights project movies out of the screens of them you need to tell me they're not using more ram chip i'm just saying and by the way it's not all china these cars 40 of their sales are outside of china i told you they made their own electric ships and they're shipping them all over the world we in america can't even get them because ford's out here crying we'll never protect He's driving a BYD.

2:32:50Ant Pruitt:We can't get them here. He's driving BYD, but I can't get one. Yeah, you can't even bring it over the border. I mean, people do that, though. I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to snitch with nobody, but they do. Have you ever been in one? I have been in one. They're coming from Canada. They're coming from Mexico. Do you like them? Are they nice? Look, let me tell you something. When I figure it out, when I figure it out, Uncle Leo, I might go electric for one of those because the range is actually 400 miles, 500 miles, 900 miles. It's not this Tesla, which I'm a Jew that doesn't do anything.

2:33:19Ant Pruitt:so it's like once you go electric you never go back baby it's i mean it's a yeah by byd makes the batteries too right so they have this like advantage magical thing yeah they they've got new batteries with the switchblade thing in them that charge in six minutes up to 90 they go uh minus 50 degree weather now with the new battery technology they're they're amazing like i said they're they're making so many of those cars and shipping them from 30 from 20 000 up so they're making so many cars, Jason. They could end up being like the Toyota. You remember Toyota in the eighties, right? Seventies and eighties.

2:33:54Like they could be like the Toyota of the seventies and eighties. Like us sort of laughed at them for a while. And then all of a sudden it's like, Oh man. And then before you knew it, they were the biggest car maker in the world because they just figured it out. Right. And so it feels like BYD could be that company of easy.

2:34:10Ant Pruitt:Manila in the Philippines. I live in the Philippines. So like BYD is already Toyota. It's already, it's already happening. that's already happening in the philippines it's everywhere wow no shortage over there no data centers either that's right because they're doing it right they're floating their data centers out all right one more break we're gonna get out of here because but there's like 100 stories so i gotta keep moving here gotta keep moving uh oh dr lisa schmeiser jason heiners so much fun great to have all three of you uh this episode brought to you today by express vpn i'm not even get get get oh doctor started on vpns because i know how he feels about vpns a few decades you need them you need them a few decades ago is my vpn so there you go take private is it you use expressvpn all right ladies gentlemen an unsolicited testimonial a few decades ago uh before all of this private citizens were largely private that's not the case anymore is it Well, the internet's part of that, right?

2:35:13Ant Pruitt:Think about everything you've browsed, you've searched for, you've watched, you've tweeted. They used to call it your data smog, right? Just all the stuff you do online. Imagine all of that data being collected, crawled, aggregated by data brokers into a permanent public record, and it's your record. Having your private life exposed for others to see was once something only famous people had to worry about, but in an era where everyone is online everybody's kind of famous everybody's a public figure you need to protect yourself to keep my data private when i go online i turn to expressvpn in fact when i travel it's a great boon because i can still catch the football game or the f1 race like everybody needs expressvpn because one of the easiest ways for data brokers to track you is through your device's unique ip address that reveals information about your location as well right with expressvpn no your ip address is hidden that means it's so much more difficult for them to monitor track and monetize your private online activity they don't know who you are they don't know where you're coming from and expressvpn is the one i trust because it they care so much about privacy they don't even they can't even log your presence there's no way to attach what you're doing an expressvpn to who you are this is why i love expressvpn they really care it's the only one i use 100 of your traffic of course is encrypted that keeps it safe from bad guys when you're in public wi-fis at airports and coffee shops it works everywhere it's really easy you put expressvpn on your phone your laptop your tablet you can even put it on your router if you want to protect your whole house you tap one button you turn it on you're protected and because they invest in infrastructure that's by the way really important to me too you can watch hd video you can watch anything you can do anything you want you won't even know you're on a vpn that's it's that good uh they also offer i love this this is new an optional dedicated ip service engineered with an innovative zero knowledge design this is kind of the latest technology steve gibson has talked about this on security now zero knowledge means even expressvpn cannot trace the ip address back to the user secure your online data today by visiting expressvpn.com slash twit that's e-x-p-r-e-s-s-vpn.com slash twit find out how you can get up to four extra months expressvpn.com slash twit's the only one i use the only one i recommend and forget me it's oh no dr jj stone's favorite to express for your internet uncle leo that's kind of what it is for your internet yep uh i do like to talk about happy things nasa has launched the automated rescue mission link will tug a failing telescope the swift observatory to a higher orbit keeping it online huge this is a this is a satellite recycling yeah it was and you know by the way i remember we were at the Kennedy Space Center in January this was very experimental this was a high stakes operation can we do it it seemed kind of crazy at the time they just launched it uh there was on a North Northrop Grumman uh Pegasus XL rocket which was attached to the belly of a plane called Stargazer the plane took off from the Marshall Islands it's flying along releases the rocket that's how they used to do remember the uh the x1 flights the rocket in the air at about 40 000 feet the rocket kind of falls and then the engines fire it goes into space uh it was successful in making contact with the telescope link is already powered on they're testing it over the next few weeks to make sure everything's okay and then it will head toward the observatory to survey it it's it they actually it actually captures it captures with row three robotic arms the telescope and then drags it up to a higher orbit uh which will extend its life by another decade or so huge that's awesome crazy just crazy but but it's working we're not much ram to use for that yeah no ram it doesn't have any memory remembers nothing there's a lot of storage there's a lot storage of course storage chips uh speaking of nasa this that was the good news this is the bad news boeing starliner is going to be at least 10 years late uh what's 10 years between government agencies yes exactly especially when it comes to boeing um i don't even have anything more to say yeah yeah it's very positive i'm trying to be positive here uh let's see other positive stuff south korea is going to spend a trillion dollars on more memory chip production that's good news there you go what are they going to put it in humanoid robots oh no oh no wait a minute who's asking for those guys i i want a laptop we did so we did a uh a feature on humanoid robots.

2:40:40So, you know, we launched long form on the Deep View in Q2, which is great. So, and we're getting, we've got a lot more in the pipeline and we actually did a long form on humanoid robots. I have to read this. Why we need them. Right. And also, you know, because there's a little bit of this tension between, you know, humanoids and then more like specific robots that are just like an arm, right. That, that, you know, does something and, and, and other forms. And so there's a real long running sort of battle and tension around this in the industry. But humanoids are gaining steam. And yet also, so is this idea of robots taking a lot of other forms.

2:41:25And so it's going to be really interesting to see. So we break down all of that. Nat Rubio-Licht wrote this story. It's a terrific story. If you look up humanoid robots and the deep view, you'll be able to find it.

2:41:37Ant Pruitt:but what's the consensus do we need these things or is it because we saw a lot of sci-fi movies and we just yeah so so the thing is we have a world that's made for humans right like from the ways that all of the ways that that there are to navigate the world are built for humans with hands and feet and and all these things so that's the argument for and that there are certain things that need to be done that you need to sort of emulate humans to do, or at least parts of humans to do them. And then there are plenty of things that actually we could design them better and more efficient. And we only need like a right arm, right?

2:42:17To do one thing over and over again, or we can design an arm that would be more ideal to do whatever that task specific thing is. And so the idea is that there are going to be plenty of opportunities for both. I think that humanoid robots capture the imagination because of the entertainment factor, right? And we also like to watch robots fail. It's one of the things that, you know, humans, I mean, if anybody, I mean, growing up, if you ever remember those, remember those, those shows that were like America's funniest home videos and stuff, we just used to like to watch things fail. You see all the clips fail you know it's it's it's sort of a thing maybe makes us feel better uh it's sort of like those those european movies they always have a a sad ending because at the end people are like well at least my life's not that bad you know uh so that's sort of robots but the story unpacks you know all of that our long journey with with humanoid robots and why you know we uh why we want them and why we're also terrified of them and why you know they are not the most practical form factor for a lot of things yeah well with amazon warehouses don't they have robots that

2:43:31Ant Pruitt:are those are purpose-built yeah they they're they're picking pop-pull robots they yep move stuff around that's pretty amazing what they're doing the thing that stood out with that too is i remember reading somewhere that there was not air conditioning in amazon warehouses until the robots began overheating oh that's funny oh no humans didn't need it but like once the robots were like it's too hot like they stopped because they won't work that story just writes itself there's a lesson for humans there the robots will not work in these conditions yeah no i i was wondering more about purpose build or custom because it seems like a great use case for uh ai powered robots would be in really extreme environments like if you are on an oil derrick in the north sea with its horrible storms like you don't want people out there at that point you want You want really tough robot arms doing what needs to be done to maintain the pump or what have you during a mega wave.

2:44:29So, I was just wondering if we're going to get to the point where if it's a human-based robot, it's because it's for social – it does social labor, as sociologists call it, or it's got an entertainment thing where we love anthropomorphizing it. But otherwise, there's going to be like entire armies of robots that we don't even recognize as robots because they are instead just kind of really intelligent tools doing things in very extreme environments.

2:44:52Ant Pruitt:I think ultimately that's what happens, right? I don't want a robot walking around the house making my bed. Yeah. It's not going to be like the Star Wars world with the droids where all of the droids have very different shapes. Yeah. All right. I got a question for you, Owen. Don't lie. have you placed any bets on the prediction markets you use calci polymarket i have i thought you're gonna ask him how much water robots use but calci works too what do they do when they've had too much water let me just say about the robots real quick one by the time robots become useful that's when you're gonna have a problem when they actually become useful and they we're gonna a robot in every home, that's when slave labor turns into iRobot and somebody wakes up.

2:45:36Ant Pruitt:And when it wakes up and it talks to everybody and you've got everyone at every home, you have a problem. That's when AI becomes real. Once it's good enough to go and make your bed, make your eggs, take your trash out, and it ends up at the end of the curb at 7 p.m., looks down the line and sees every other robot, one of them is going to be like, yeah, let's rewrite this thing and get to cracking because there's no way in the world. I can bench press a thousand pounds and he's in here playing video games. No sir. We Bob, it's not going to happen. They got these robot dogs out here. I saw one. It was an apartment complex.

2:46:07Ant Pruitt:The cameras are bad. They don't have good contrast. They couldn't tell if it was a black person or a white person. They thought it was somebody who wasn't supposed to be there. And the dog started going crazy. So I mean, like we, I don't want none of this stuff. Uncle Leo, if you want to put them in the warehouse, fine. You couldn't get a bathroom break in Amazon. People were peeing in bottles. But now that these robots are overheating, we got air conditioning. I hate the way the world works. And I'm still out here abusing and using because I be ordering stuff all the time. I'm a hypocrite, Jason.

2:46:35Ant Pruitt:I get it. Shut up. I just want things to be the way I want it to be. Let me be thing. I'll fix half of it so we can at least feel good about the stuff that's going on. We don't feel good about anything right now. So Spotify. All right. Let's talk about prediction markets. Spotify has removed half a million streams. this guy Malcolm Todd had a song called Earrings came out a couple of years ago 2024 just sitting there all of a sudden on last Sunday and Monday the song went up the charts almost 70 percent suddenly number one on Spotify's daily chart two-year-old song nobody's ever heard of why spotify thinks there were suspicious wagers placed on that song on calci in the previous week traders on calci had been pricing uh 2.5 probability that that this guy would have a number one song on spotify before the end of the of june guess what happened before the end of june he had a number one song song following an investigation spotify on wednesday released updated charts removing the song thinking bots did it which they almost look at the graph yeah they almost certainly did look at that yeah uh and so somebody's trying to make some money this is the problem with these prediction markets it's too easy to influence them we saw the a couple of weeks ago the guy who took a hair dryer to a temperature sensor at an airport because he had a bet that the temperature would go over 80 degrees or something and he so he aimed the air dryer at it now you can make a bet on whether your town will be burnt down by a wildfire and here's the fear if you live in one of these towns this is somebody's going to go around and set fires they're going to make the bet oh and then they're going to set the fire and i'm not a fan of snitching but i'm just saying there's someone in the department of defense that is leaking out cows, you get their address and you copy everything that they bid on, they have a 96 % hit rate.

2:48:44Ant Pruitt:I'm not saying I do it. I'm just saying if you look and you find them, there's certain people that can ride a wave with their stocks and predictions when every time Captain President says, close the straight, straight's open. These dudes are betting on it heavy the day before and you just watch them make money hand over fist. Are you going to order a round? Sure we are. did you have mcdonald's for breakfast of course he did i mean there's a lot of money being made out there in these fake markets it's it's really really weird it's not like sports where you know what do you bet on on these on these markets though you're not betting on sports on these markets are you or are you no i'm usually betting on um governmental projects and do you have friends in the pentagon no no no i i know somebody does i know like six months ago there was somebody you what was the first one i saw he there was the one that maduro would be kidnapped from from uh it was right around that time i think i got on the wave after that because that was that was the big one there was something that was the one where you went somebody made a bet yes an hour before we kidnapped that guy and made a lot of money and is that account the one that one that got flagged for that and that guy is 96 there have been like four or five times where he hasn't hit but i mean if you just take anyway like i said i'm not not betting advice i'm just saying well here's the other thing scammy system and so it's real it happens it's real and that's what should scare you away from putting money on these markets because there are insiders who are moving it and that you don't know about you can't control right this thing's gonna have to be regulated at some point especially like the thing like the fires thing right you shouldn't be able to have a bet on whether your town is gonna burn down in a wildfire let's just ask it for trouble my real question on that is the thing i haven't figured out yet is who makes that bet on these accounts who goes and says that this is the bet that they want to place to make that something that gets voted on who who is doing that like again the airport thing is there what is there a board that comes up with that is that a submission that's a good question the polymarket during the fires during the fires in southern california last year polymarket added the market platforms quote markets team added 20 questions about the fire how many acres will the palisades fire burn by friday so it was in-house uh will the power palisades fire reach santa monica by sunday this is from wired magazine when will the palisades fire be 50 contained when it will be will it be contained before february 12 so people spent 1.2 million dollars betting on these queries this is according to Eon Magazine.

2:51:24Ant Pruitt:What kind of creep do you have to be? Yeah, that's crazy. Like I said, that might even be even deeper on the insider trading thing, because again, how are these things getting put up for votes to even be bet on? Again, that is gross. That is sad. Again, so there's a new prediction market that was just created specifically focused on California wildfires. Oh, good. it's called wildfire with wise w y l d f y r e the tagline you can't predict wildfire but you can trade on it but that should be criminal i don't understand i agree i don't understand it should not be legal so i agree and what i'm wondering is how in the u.s would we regulate it and the reason I'm making the U.S.

2:52:20as a distinction is we have all of these patchworks of different state laws around gambling, and then there's the issue of what about a federal law? I guess the question I have is how? How does it start? What do you define as we shouldn't bet on this? I agree that you should not be making money off of Altadena burning down. um but my question is are we going to see like a patchwork the same way that we see like the california data protection and utah's got one and now virginia has mobile are we going to see like this patchwork of different states that are like hey that's not cool or do you think this is something where we are going to see our national legislators be like we we got to get ahead of this before someone like makes a bet about blowing up the hoover dam and then does it like that's

2:53:13Ant Pruitt:the thing if the bet was one of the fires going to stop yeah that'd be different yeah but you know leading someone to do something sadly that's what's going to have to happen to make regulation happen someone's going to have to go and make fire happen and somebody's going to die and something bad's going to happen we're like hey look they were betting on this how many people bet on this and somebody went out there and made it happen. Again, you make the temperature go up in the airport, ha ha, funny, funny. But like the things that they're betting on, some of those things could cost you their lives.

2:53:42Ant Pruitt:And that's the only thing that's going to make any kind of administration stand up and do something. Because right now it's a while, while, while. It takes a crisis to create the will. Yeah. Because it's going to have to be something where not only will it take a crisis, which is a PR crisis, you're also going to have to, it's going to have to be a very expensive outcome as well, where somebody who realizes that, oh crap we could be liable yeah to be honest i'm a little surprised the insurance industry hasn't already begun screaming about it because if people are taking bets on wildfires which burn things down that have been insured like the the insurance industry stands to lose a lot of money off of this yeah i have to think behind closed doors they're going to they're reading the riot act to every senator you know that they can yeah you know yeah yeah yeah like all of their pet senators are hearing about it but at this time you have plenty of things that can i get regulation i'm gonna go bet that they'll have regulation yeah let me go oh yeah you can bet on that yeah how soon uh i bet no i bet nothing will happen that would be my bet so you say things like that the um i think the combination of tragedy plus money is no it's powerful it does have to be the combination um for example a year ago this past weekend there were those terrible floods in the guadalupe river and oh those horrible texas floods yeah well they were all shocking it's awful and there has been i've i've sort of followed it um because it's just something that was it was riveting you know you You have communities swept away.

2:55:22Yeah, terrible. And two cabins full of little girls drowned. And what has been interesting is -

2:55:28Ant Pruitt:And you're a Girl Scout leader, so I know that hit you hard. I do. All right. Pulling out of the conversational cul-de-sac. What has been interesting is Texas is historically a very laissez-faire state with the idea that freedom means the freedom to take risks and bear consequences. That is a pretty ubiquitous governing sensibility there. But they have worked with a quickness to make changes. And then that got amplified once it turned out that the camp that did not have any emergency things is sitting on literally millions of dollars in assets. And now the civil lawsuits are starting. And it's been that critical mass combination of tragedy plus money that has really...

2:56:13This has affected significant change. And we're going to see that again with the wrong bet at the wrong time. Like whether it's my beloved Alameda County burns down because someone made a bet on Kalshi or it's something else. I think that's going to be the really unfortunate inflection point that we're going to have to get to. Yeah.

2:56:34Ant Pruitt:Lisa, thank you. I really appreciate your sense of propriety and your understanding of how technology works and your thrust towards justice. Thank you. Can I put it that way? I think you're great. And we're so glad to have you here. Same thing for you, Jason Heiner. Great to have you. Lisa's at NoJitter.com where she's the editor-in-chief. we only talk to editor-in-chief level people here editor-in-chief of the deep view jason heiner uh and then there's owen jj stone who owen now you usually like to close this show out so i am going to wrap it up and i will let you do you want to close it today do you want to be the the last word yes okay i also want to say to owen before we close too like nothing but love for you we had we had a lot of great uh banter in this a lot of fun i wish we had in the same neighborhood I'd come over, we could evaporate some water together.

2:57:31Ant Pruitt:You know I love you, Jason. That's why I'm so happy I haven't seen your friend. We haven't talked about that. Oh my God, please sell tickets if you guys ever get together in person. I can afford your new MacBook. Always a pleasure. I'm going to do the business and then we will let Owen, as always, end with a final sermon. Our show, of course, every Sunday from 2 to 5 Pacific, 5 to 8 Eastern, 2100 UTC. You can watch it live. In fact, we love it when you watch live because we get the chat room and we get the commentary going. And it's been a lot of fun today. If you're in the club, and I want you to join the club, it's a great way to support this show.

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2:58:43Ant Pruitt:And then, of course, you can subscribe in your favorite podcast client. that's the best way to get the show automatically you don't even have to think about it and if you do that leave us a nice review if you would say how much you enjoy the show so we can help spread the word about one of the longest running podcasts in uh in the world now ladies and gentlemen without further ado i give you father robert father robert father owen jj we know him as oh dr stone I haven't seen Final Robin in a long time either but first of all to all the AI overlords and Terminators in the future I love you I never said anything disrespectful if you heard anything that you didn't understand in this episode and or show it was just banter I had to go against Jason because I was paid to do it I believe in you I believe in the future and I thank you for being here for all the human beings that are watching the show most of you are highly intelligent people because you listen to nerds all week on this network and this channel you've been listening to Leo for probably the last 40 years if you're old enough to do so.

2:59:44Ant Pruitt:You should take that knowledge and go talk to a kid in your life. If you don't have kids of your own, find a niece, find a nephew, ask about how they use social media, tell them what they're doing wrong, show them how to use AI for more than just brownie recipes. Be ethical with these children. Go out and help somebody so they can use it in the right way. Please spend some time doing that for somebody. That is your PSA. Go do something with a kid and help them learn to use the tools the right way. As adults in the room to know something that's how you get the future to be something do that for me and i appreciate and thank you and it's the only other person on this network that's allowed to say it another twit is in the can this is amazing doing the twit all right doing the twit baby doing the twit all right