Andy Burnham’s big bold leap

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:08Today, Andy Burnham promises hope again. But at what cost?

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1:02Inside the Museum of Liverpool, a medley of hits by legendary local bands are pumping through the speakers. Of course he's playing a Liverpool classic. There she goes by the Lars. The DJ curating these tunes is standing behind the decks on Ray's stage. He's performing for a cheery crowd of people drinking free booze paid for by the Fabian Society, a left-wing think tank. But it's not a celebrity doing this set, or even a famous producer. It's the mayor of the Liverpool city region, Steve Rotherham. He's Andy Burnham's best friend, so I bet he's having a great time here. Maybe we should go and try and talk to him between records.

1:42Hovering behind Steve is a young guy in a black polo shirt. It's his deputy DJ, the guy showing him how to move the faders and knobs. He makes certain that I don't cock up. MC Rotherham is doing this DJ set at the Labour Party conference, an annual event where thousands of people, party members, councillors, MPs, lobbyists, all come together to meet and discuss what the party should do next. Oh my god, he's signing his job autobiography. Before I can ask Steve any more questions, someone gets to him first. It's a fan. She hands him a pencil to autograph Head North, the book he co-wrote a few years ago.

2:19So Steve from London wrote a book with an unknown politician called Andy Burns. It is the best book ever. So it's all about devolution and localism, and I think every single politician should read it, because it's... The atmosphere at the conference is unrecognisable from last year, when even the party's most faithful were feeling pretty gloomy about the then Prime Minister Keir Starmer, who'd somehow turned a historic landslide into a historic pole slump in just a year. This time around, people are going Beatlemania over mares and a book making the case for devolution, for goodness sake. It is a complete energy 180.

3:01I finally get a word in with Steve and ask how it feels to see his BFF in Downing Street. You always say he's your Bessie. Is it weird who's now the most powerful? Yeah, is it weird? Yeah, you never expect when you're two kids from Liverpool that one of them at one stage has got to become the Prime Minister. But I know how good he is. How do you think this year feels different from last year? Oh, my God. I think what we always try to do at Conference, don't we, is to put our best foot forward. but it's taken less effort this time than previous years and everybody can feel a vibe. It's something definitely different.

3:49I think there's a raised expectation that we need the Prime Minister now to be able to meet. But let's face it, if anybody's able to do it, it's Andy Burnham.

4:09From The Guardian, I'm Helen Pidd. Today in Focus, we've got the Burnham bounce. What are we bouncing towards?

4:21So I'm standing by the River Mersey, ready for Andy Burnham's first ever Labour conference as Prime Minister. my god, what a difference a year makes. I remember standing in this exact spot one year ago thinking, hmm, not sure Keir Starmer's that long for this world. And lo, he was not. And what really struck me the last two Labour party conferences with Starmer in charge is just how downbeat the whole thing felt, considering that the party had won a fairly historic landslide. It'll be really interesting to see if the party mood is different, whether people feel like, oh my goodness, maybe we haven't blown it, Maybe we could have a second term as a Labour government.

5:02And I guess that's what Andy Burnham's going to be trying to do this week, is to persuade the party faithful, the people here who are the ones who turn out in all weathers to knock on doors and shove leaflets through letterboxes, to sort of persuade them that he is the guy and that he has got what it takes to actually win a second term and change Britain. I mean, I'm excited and the word hope is what most of us are hoping for, a change in the country. it's really encouraging and I believe that there's a lot of faith behind him as a leader. He speaks all language. He's done much better in terms of public persona and everything else than even I hoped for.

5:39I did feel a little bit as though we were under kind of a civil service organisation for the first two years under care. It didn't feel like the Labour Party for someone who's been in it for 54 years. Great that we have Andy Bonham. Great that we kicked out Kestama. Great to know that Labour is back on the path of progressive because that is who we are. We are a progressive party, not pretend to be far right when we are not. So we are progressive. We are left, far left, centre left. Everything left, everything progress. Yes, that is who we are. The theme for this year is hope again. And boy, does Burnham want you to know about it.

6:22You're told to hope again on the escalators when queuing for the toilets. The entire cabinet seems contractually obliged to shoehorn in the word hope as many times as possible. This government of hope will put the children's hopes at the very heart of everything we do. Because the next election won't just be a choice between Labour and the right. It is bigger than that. It is a choice between hope and fear. It's a nod to Barack Obama, of course, who in 2008 talked of the audacity of hope. But the problem with banging on about hope when you're actually in power is that people very quickly want you to crack on with doing stuff to get their lives better, rather than simply painting a picture of a better future.

7:07Oh yeah, the optimism is mega high, I would say. And like, whereas when I was here two years ago, it was just a bunch of triumphalism, making promises, Here we are a couple of years later, still same old shit. I can't swear. Well, you can. Same old shit. Yeah, really. This is Sonny Elton from Tottenham in North London. But now the hope's back, which we'd love to see. But he hasn't got my hope for long, so he better fix-ups quickly and he better get shit done, basically. How long will you give him? I'll give him to the next election, which hopefully is in 2029. I'm daring to trust him for now. And if he breaks that trust, my time in the Labour Party may be done.

7:53Really? How long have you been a member? Since 2016, since I was about 14, 15 years old. Yeah, I was going to say, you must have been a babe in arms when you joined. I joined during the Corbyn era. I thought, oh my God, this is a party for me. And then there was obviously a couple of years of turmoil. Speaking of the Corbyn era, I want to know how some of Labour's lefties are feeling about their new captain. So I go to the Albert Dock to catch up with Richard Bergen, the MP for Leeds East. So when we were talking last, you were saying basically you didn't think Keir Starmer would necessarily be leading Labour into the next conference if the local elections went badly.

8:27So you're mystic, Richard. Yeah, I also predicted Leeds would get to the FA Cup final. They got to the semi-final, but Keir Starmer was correct at least. I think the main reason for that was the party members were starting to feel, and MPs, that a reformed government almost felt inevitable. under Keir Starmer, and that before it was too late, they needed to turn that round. And I think one of the most welcome things is, now that Andy is leader, that no longer feels inevitable. It feels like we've got an opportunity to deliver the kind of change that people voted for but didn't really get in 2024 and stop the election of a Trump-style government here.

9:04So that's one of the many reasons that I think people are in a better mood at this party conference than they were last year. So you feel a lot more buoyant, do you? No, no, definitely. I can feel it in my constituency that people are listening to the Labour leadership again. But, of course, it's still early days. And just because it's not inevitable that we'll end up with a reformed government, it's not inevitable that we won't either. And so to stop that happening, we really need to deliver and make a reality of what Andy Burnham said outside Number 10. You know, he started off by saying who wanted to see it bringing an end to 40 years of failed neoliberal consensus.

9:44Now, that's great. I welcome that. But to make those words a reality, that's going to require a lot of policy change, you know, obviously on a national care service, housing and so much more. So we need to ensure as a party that we push for policies that turn those words into reality. And if we do, we can win the next election and change people's lives for the better between now and then.

10:13In the two months Andy Burnham has been Prime Minister, he has promised a lot. Some of it small. Starting in January, subscriptions will be easier to counsel. There'll be a crackdown on fake discounts. A bargain has to be a bargain. 50 % off means 50 % off. Some of it big. We will help more young people into work by changing the education system and giving them more support, more mental health support. And we will build more council homes. And as conference begins, he makes his biggest pledge yet. To be really clear, you've just set this out then. You are going to put to the country at the next general election a proposition for a care service that will be free at the point of use, paid for by everyone, and that will be on the ballot paper.

11:05next time round. But one question looms large. How the heck is he going to pay for it all? The man who needs to figure that out is John Healy, Burnham's Chancellor. It is the privilege of my life to stand before you today as Labour's Chancellor of the Exchequer. Let's be honest, you might not have even heard of him before he moved into 11 Downing Street. But he is a political veteran who worked in Gordon Brown's treasury back in the noughties. and then was made Keir Starmer's defence secretary, before resigning earlier this year in a row over defence funding. Now it's his job to find money for all of Burnham's promises.

11:45The problem, he admits, is that the money isn't really there. Now I know the 90s is having a bit of a revival. To Andrew's excitement, Oasis are going back on tour. To Angela's joy, Gladiator's back on Saturday night TV. But I have to level with your conference. The money New Labour had in the 90s is simply not there now. He tries to strike an optimistic tone, but his actual message is much gloomier. Britain is in massive debt, he says, thanks to 14 years of Tory government. 14 years of flatlining Tory growth and living standards. And so, he says, the welfare bill is going to have to come down.

12:27Conference, it's not progressive to allow a bigger and bigger benefits bill and a system which offers an income but doesn't offer a future. so once again as a Labour government it falls to us to act. Quite how he's going to cut the benefits bill well that's a question for another day and what about tax rises we'll have to wait for the budget for that it is a speech that leaves a lot unsaid. I leave the main exhibition centre and go and meet another Labour veteran one of the party's grand dams an actual dame too Emily Thornbury, MP for Islington South in London. Emily, hello. Hello. Hello from the Guardian.

13:07Hi there. Hello. Thank you. The show we do downstairs. I want to talk to Emily because she says it like it is. She's been around long enough to speak her mind without worrying about whether it will put her out of contention for a cabinet job. So you became an MP, I think, in 2005. I did. So you knew Andy Burnham way back when. I did. When he was a young whippersnapper climbing the ladder of the Blair and Brown government. did you ever think you'd be at party conference where he would be the prime minister? No.

13:37And how do you feel about the fact that he is? Oh, I'm cool with it. I mean, I'm quite boring about this, really. I'm quite earnest, I'm sorry. But what I really want is to get the politics right. And I know people kind of fixate these days on personalities and it's a little bit like, you know, I'm a celebrity, get me out of here sometimes. But actually what I want is I want to have a leader of the Labour Party who is comfortable with Labour, who is not embarrassed, who says, we're not trying to be reform, we are not the Greens, we are Labour and Labour means something and we have certain principles, we have certain beliefs and we're going to do our best to implement them and look people in the eye and say that.

14:24And, you know, there's not much to ask, but that is what we get from Andy Burnham and that's one of the reasons why people have a kind of bounce in their step at the moment because we can be Labour and be proud of ourselves and do you think that Andy Burnham can connect with people in your London constituency obviously King of the North did very well in Greater Manchester do you think that he can do alright in the capital? yeah yeah, this Queen of the South endorses it I love it amazing and in some ways he might never be as popular as he is right now. The public seem ready and willing, roughly, to give him a chance.

15:02The hard decisions lie ahead. Do you think he's got what it takes to make these tough decisions? Well, he's going to have to. I mean, there are decisions that need to be made. I mean, I do think also that, you know, the leader sets a tone, but the leader doesn't do everything. I mean, you know, politics is a team sport, and you need to have good people in key positions who are there to advise you and to work together and to fight your corner and to go out there and sell the decisions that are being made, but also to be part of those decisions. You know, if one person makes all those decisions by themselves, they will, by definition, be bad decisions.

15:36Yeah. And we've just heard, I don't know if you heard any of John Healy's speech, but he was... No, OK. Well, it was a bit light on substance, I have to say, because he's got a budget coming up. But he was saying... He was harking back to his start in politics and, you know, the 90s are back, and he was saying, I'm sorry to say that our finances are not in the same state as the 1990s. How do you think he should balance the books? Do you want to see taxes to go up or should cuts be made? I think a bit of both. You know, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. And this is a Labour government.

16:08And I think that we should be not afraid to do a bit of wealth redistribution. I think particularly my generation, the boomers. I mean, we're doing all right. You know, we've got the pensions, we've got the jobs, we've got the houses, We've got the savings. We've eaten all the fish. We're warming up the planet. I mean, like, you know, we're quite a crowd. And I think that the level of intergenerational injustice is really high. And I think that it's incumbent on us to look at that honestly and say, you know, the Labour Party is making sure that those of the broadest shoulders carry the biggest weight.

16:44And there's an awful lot of people in my generation who could carry more weight than we do.

16:57When Labour members talk about what they disliked most about the Starmer era, it was his attitude to immigration that often comes up. Remember his island of stranger speech? That put a lot of noses out of joint, to the point that even he ended up disowning it. And then there was his apparent determination to make it more difficult for immigrants to put down roots in Britain. Most controversially of all, there were plans proposed by the Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood to double the amount of time it took to qualify for indefinite leave to remain, from five to ten years. And migrants on care visas would have to wait up to 15 years under those plans.

17:34But it's a plan that the new Prime Minister doesn't seem too keen on. Here he is during a phone-in on Monday. But I do see there are lots of people working in our care system, who've come from abroad, I think it's really important that we say to them that we recognise what they are doing day in, day out. We could not do without them. The care system may well not function were they not there. And so perhaps it's not such a surprise that when Mahmood gives her speech this year, she suggests that a rethink may be on the cards. I know that throughout our consultation process, some have said that elements of these reforms are not fair.

18:13And to that, let me say this. We will come to a position that balances fairness for those who came here legally and fairness to British citizens across this country. But what the crowd really love is her promise to reopen safe resettlement schemes for refugees, particularly women and girls from Afghanistan and Palestinians from Gaza. And that is not all conference. I can also announce that this government will reopen the UK resettlement route in partnership with the United Nations. We will take vulnerable refugees from across the world and give them the chance of a new and better life here in Britain with the first arrivals this year.

19:00Afterwards, I call her a bunch of Nigerian women who've come from Hull and Huddersfield. Were you just in the hall for Shibana Mahmood? We loved the way she spoke. They're taking selfies by the GB newsstand and seem delighted, sure that they've detected a change not just in tone, but policy. I like the way she spoke, that they should treat everybody equally. So people have been texting me, calling me, that what is she going to say today? I said, let's hear from her, but she spoke good. Everyone was anxious. Even I got messages from people from other parties that were economic migrants. They wanted to know what Shabana had said.

19:36And listening to her today, it just means Labour cares about everyone. I can stop in the boat and turn the boat to France. But this time, they're going to look into all the kind of immigration in the country and then giving them that fairness because that is what Labour stands for. So that is why I feel more Labour today. And then I feel like I'm going back home, taking this good message, message of hope, back to my own constituency. It seems to me to be at least a small move away from aping reforms immigration policies. And maybe, as Emily Thornberry was saying, it's Labour being unapologetically themselves.

20:21And on that theme, it seems Burnham has got a lot more planned. That's coming up.

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21:56Finally, it's Burnham's big moment. His first conference speech as leader. Last year, he was spotted leaving Liverpool just as Keir Starmer was stepping onto the stage. This time, he is the star attraction. And so far, from all the conversations we've had at conference, there seem to be a couple of big questions hanging over Liverpool. People are feeling hopeful again, yes. But they're also wondering, what is Burnham actually going to do in number 10? and how's he going to pay for it? The politician in me wants to give the usual tub-thumping conference speech today. But the patriot in me tells me something very different is needed.

22:41So, Jessica Elgert, you're the Guardian's Deputy Political Editor and we've both just come out of what I think was really quite an extraordinary speech from Andy Burnham. I don't know about you, I can't really remember anything quite like it. We're going to talk through some of the specific announcements shortly, but kind of big picture. What did you make of it? I mean, it's certainly the most radical speech I've ever heard from a prime minister in the decade that I've been doing this job. Lots of the topics that he chose to tackle are ones which, you know, in Yes Minister, might have been described as brave.

23:12He's talking about Europe. He's talking about social care. He's talking about electoral reform. He's talking about public control of utilities. If he'd have made one of those the mainstay of the speech, we'd have still been calling it a radical speech. Deregulation, privatisation, austerity, Brexit. And what has it given us? A country run for vested interests, not in the public interest, with power held in too few hands and too many places left to drift. You know, I think that when Andy Burnham first decided to go back into Parliament, there were a lot of quite snide comments about he's promised all these things and he says he likes public control and he says he likes electoral reform and, you know, he'll obviously have to ditch all of those things when he's come back.