Andy Burnham’s (third) bid for the Labour leadership

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:07Today, the Mancunian candidate, Andy Burnham.

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0:49There's been weeks of talk about Andy Burnham being the hottest thing in British politics. After months, or let's face it, a whole career, of building up to this moment, the mayor of Greater Manchester is fighting to win. I'm in the campaign. I'm fighting to win it with your support and with the support of the great people of this constituency. First, in the make-a-feel by-election. And then, well, to become the next Labour prime minister. A vote for me in this by-election campaign is a vote to change Labour. Burnham-mania is a real thing. He consistently polls higher than any other Labour politician.

1:32He seems likeable. He can talk to people. He's got great eyelashes. But behind the hype is one small question. What does Andy Burnham actually believe in? In October, Burnham said Britain shouldn't be in Hoctobond markets when deciding how to spend money. More recently, he's been walking that back. I have never said you can just ignore the bomb markets. I said that politicians have placed Britain in hock. He once said that he wanted the UK back in the EU. I'm going to be honest, I'm going to say it. I hope in my lifetime I see this country rejoin. And now, as Makerfield looms into view, it's not so much his thing.

2:20The last thing we should do right now is rerun those arguments. And if he thought Andy Burnham would be Labour's liberal voice on immigration and asylum... We've always played a part in terms of welcoming people in the past. We stand ready to do so going forward. Well, it turns out he now backs the Home Secretary's tough crackdown too. I've said, you know, the thrust of what she's doing is right.

2:49So come on then. Who is the real Andy Burnham? And how did he get here?

2:59From The Guardian, I'm Noshi Nikbal. Today in Focus, third time's a charm, why Andy Burnham is tipped to be the future of the Labour Party.

3:14Josh Halliday, welcome back to Today in Focus. Thank you. You're The Guardian's North of England editor, and you've met Andy Burnham, spent quite a bit of time with him during his morality of Manchester. What's your impression of him? Andy Burnham is quite unusual for a top politician. He actually responds to your texts, he picks up the phone, he calls you mate when you answer. He's very sort of chummy. But I think that is very much seen as quite an affable politician. Somebody who could walk down the street, have conversations with ordinary people, which not that many politicians in this era can.

3:52You know, he's not a suit and tie sort of politician. I've seen fashion articles about him, which is odd for a mayor because they're very unsexy roles. He's kind of built his own brand, I suppose, in the last 10 years as mayor of Greater Manchester. You mentioned fashion. Of course, I think there was this piece in Vogue which asked, why do we all fancy Andy Burnham? So it kind of gives us a sense of this fever almost around him. You know, it's kind of gripping politics right now. Josh, why is he suddenly being touted as the saviour of the Labour Party? I think he's built up this persona and he's very deliberately done this over the course of his time in Greater Manchester, but particularly during Covid as speaking for the world outside Westminster.

4:39And that's led to some calling him the King of the North. Some wrongly say self-styled King of the North. he's never styled himself as king of the north that would be quite shameless wouldn't it but i think he likes the title he's expressed multiple times that you know politics doesn't work for most of the country you know we live in a far too in far too much of a london-centric over-centralized political system but over the last few weeks burnham has been telling people that he's the only person who can save this country from reform uk which sounds like a big claim to make in a time when reform so far ahead in the polls and Labour looks doomed, to be honest, in the next general election.

5:18But what he believes and his allies believe is that he can speak to the people who are turning to reform, the largely white working classes, former Labour voters, left Labour rapidly over the last 10 years, but feel betrayed by Labour, feel they're working harder, they're taking home less, the political system just doesn't work for them. This is what Burnham's all about, it's what he's been all about for the last nine years as Greater Manchester Mayor. So that's why he believes his time has come. It is a vote to give the people here in these communities who supported us through the years, it's a vote to give them the party back that they used to know.

6:00That is what this is a vote for. a party a party that is solidly solidly on the side of working class people and working class communities another thing that he does which hasn't had much of a show in politics in recent times and it's not yet come up in this by-election but i think it probably will do is that he is quite unusual for a person on the left of politics because he he can articulate a progressive form of patriotism i love this country our country i feel proud to be british i don't subscribe to the current fashion of putting more narrow loyalties first i am british before i am english he kind of does that really convincingly he can articulate this sense of you know being a a nation of you know inclusion i love what britain has always stood for as a country for the underdog against the bully not shying away from you know the flag which has become a divisive topic in politics reclaiming saint george's flag as a kind of um you know symbol of pride rather than division He can do it in a way that doesn't feel kind of stilted and awkward.

7:22You know when you get cabinet ministers saying, I have sent George's flags in my home, and you just don't believe them. You just cringe as well very hard. Yeah, I mean, well, he's a politician that, you know, does go to the football, does enjoy a pint. You know, he's... He seems normal. He seems normal.

7:47Josh that is Andy Burnham now but can you tell me how he got here you know what was his early life like how did he get into politics Andy Burnham had quite an ordinary upbringing he was born in Liverpool and then moved at quite a young age to a culture which is in between Manchester and Liverpool he's an Everton fan everyone knows that everyone's seen him jogging in his retro football shirt. Very short shorts. And horrific shorts. I'm getting plenty of advice about what I should do. The main piece being, for God's sake, get some new running shorts. I don't think he would ever claim to be poor growing up, but he had quite a working class background, working class sensibilities, a labour supporting family.

8:28His dad worked for the post office. He tells this story of being radicalised by the minor strikes in the 80s when he was a young boy. The school that he went to was near one of the picket lines. And, you know, he's written about banging on the school bus window, you know, on the way into school to show support for the striking miners and, you know, people bringing in tins of food for other children at his school whose parents were on the picket line. And I think that sort of helps set a light. He's sort of interested in politics from that early age. He joined Labour at the age of 14 or 15. and three years later he was at Cambridge University and read English.

9:07He felt like an imposter. There wasn't many young people from his part of the world that ended up at Cambridge University. As you said, Hino, he felt like an imposter in Cambridge. He also said later that he found the culture in Westminster stifling but he did rise quite rapidly through the Labour ranks quite quickly. How would you characterise his early years? He joined Westminster, if you like, in the mid-90s when he was in his mid-twenties, first as a researcher for Tessa Jowell before the 1997 general election, seemed to get a taste for, you know, politics and, you know, very quickly wanted to become an MP.

9:43So that was set quite early on. That was set quite early on, yeah. He's described it as a, you know, kind of guilty secret that he wanted to be an MP. And he was a special advisor for Chris Smith, the culture secretary. And then he got the seat in Lee near Wigan where he was elected in 2001. And then he had various government posts under both Tony Blair and Gordon Brown rising to some of the top posts in government. He was health secretary for a time. The King's Fund report said that the Conservatives left the NHS in intensive care in 1997. We have nursed the National Health Service back to health.

10:20And then later, Culture Secretary. The Right Honourable Andy Burnham, the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport. Josh, in 2009 he went to Liverpool's Anfield Stadium for the 20th anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster. Remembering any loss of life on this scale is painful. It is even harder when a tragedy was no natural disaster but entirely man-made. When it involves so many young people and when those who lost most have suffered so many more dark days ever since. He's often pointed to this as something of a turning point in his career. Can you tell us what happened and why it was so significant for him?

11:02Yeah, well, Andy Burnham has said previously that all roads lead to and from Hillsborough for him. On the day of the semi-final itself, he had friends who were there at Hillsborough, you know, described as sort of frantic waiting for news, desperation. He's spoken about this sense of a police cover-up and the government being against the people, a city that felt a terrible injustice for decades. So it's personal for him? It's really personal, yeah. So when he spoke at Anfield on the 20th anniversary, he was there as the representative for the UK government. So it was an incredibly tricky position for him to be in personally because of the deep hurt that many in Liverpool felt towards the government still at that time.

11:51They felt they hadn't seen justice for the victims, right? That's right. But today, as the Prime Minister has asked me to convey... But it's a very striking moment when he starts to talk. 96 fellow football supporters who died will never be forgotten. And he asks us to think at this time. The crowd starts chanting over the top of him, justice for the 96. And he stops and steps back and sort of lets that moment unfold.

12:36And I think in those kind of seconds was kind of a pivotal moment in his political career because he was hearing people. He was there facing up to it as a member of the government of the day. The following day, he spoke to cabinet in government and basically kick-started the process for excavating the police records, exposing the injustice and the cover-up. These papers are stronger than I thought they would be. What we see is what we've always suspected, that immediate attempts were made to blame the 96, their friends, families, fellow supporters, and take the blame off the police. And that's why I say Hillsborough is one of the biggest injustices of the 20th century.

13:20It's not just that there was a terrible... So it was a really seminal moment, really, in his political journey. Josh, just a year after that, he then ran for the first time to be leader of the Labour Party, and he ended up coming fourth just above Diane Abbott. Are you disappointed you haven't done better that your name isn't up there with people who might win? No, I came into this campaign to say what I needed to say. Didn't stop him from trying again, which he did in 2015, running against Jeremy Corbyn. that he's espousing. I mean, it does seem that this contest is Jeremy Corbyn versus the other three, and that socialism is something of a dirty word within the Labour Party these days.

13:57No, I don't think that's right at all. I mean, I agree with him on some things, such as more public control and public ownership of the railways, but I disagree with him on other things. For instance, How did he pitch himself in those two contests? And why did it not land either time? Well, there were quite different contests in 2010 and 2015, and you saw quite different versions of Andy Burnham. The mood also in the country at the time was different just in the space of five years. you remember Corbyn Mania in 2015? Yes, I do. It's an unstoppable wave of support for Jeremy Corbyn and he came nowhere near winning that really.

14:39You know, many people would have given up after two times and then it's sort of humiliating fashion as well. Both of his campaigns were quite odd in a way. They never really got off the ground with any coherent policies or messaging. People didn't really know what Andy Burnham stood for. It is not unreasonable to ask you, are you closer to Kendall or Corbyn or somewhere in the dead down thing? I'm clearly somewhere in the middle, in between, aren't I? And I'm not denying the question, but I know you in the media like to put labels on people. You know, one of his criticisms of his time as a government minister, that people say is that he just seemed to rise without trace and no one can really say who he is or what he stands for.

15:23I mean it reminds me of that sort of old political joke about him isn't there where a Blairite, a Brownite and a Corbynite walk into a bar and the barman says hello Andy Burnham It's a classic he's you know the jellyfish is what some people called him I think as well spineless and then two years later he was out of Westminster but he still hadn't sort of given up on his ambitions to one day lead the Labour Party so here he is you know 11 years down the line

15:59Josh, as you say, he was obviously always very ambitious. So why did he decide to leave Westminster and become mayor of Greater Manchester? I think he just got completely fed up of Westminster after 15 or 16 years there, holding various ministerial posts, being frustrated in his efforts to get things done. He's spoken about not liking, you know, the way government operates in terms of the whip system. You have to vote the way the government votes, not, you know, what you believe in your conscience. You know, you can't vote with your conscience, you've got to vote with the party. I don't think he likes the Westminster bubble culture.

16:36But I think, you know, his real departure for him was the Brexit campaign. And, you know, what he felt was, you know, it was completely lackluster remain campaign that didn't speak to majority of people in the country. So there's a particular moment in the Brexit campaign in 2016 where he was an ardent remainer. He wanted to make a speech about the emotional pull of remain and why we should stay within the EU. and as he tells it he was basically given no support for making this statement at all by the official remain campaign they wanted to keep it strictly on economics right don't strain to like the emotional reasons for staying within the eu but i mean what andy burnham says is that no one was making this kind of emotional case combating this nationalism in you know large swathes of the north of England, which ended up voting for Brexit.

17:30Patriotism is to love who we are and what we have been and be positive about it. Nationalism is to think we are better and look down on everyone else. And in the end, that is what I think the Leave campaign is about. And he kind of felt really worried about where the country was going and he sort of lost faith in the ability of the Labour Party particularly to speak to ordinary working class people. And so in 2017 he returns to his roots, he becomes Mayor of Manchester and I remember he was voted in on the promise to end street homelessness. Rising homelessness is the issue that has defined this campaign.

18:13What were his first steps in that role? Promise to end homelessness was a big part of his initial campaign and it you know it got off to what seemed to be a decent start there was a campaign called a bed every night particularly when you know when temperatures dropped below freezing every person who was homeless would be guaranteed a bed for the night that later evolved and it was going well and then covid sort of seemed to blow everything out of the water we had other big pledges as well one of which is called the b network which is manchester's bright shiny new yellow buses, electrified buses, which now buzz around the city, around the region, actually.

18:52One goes past the end of my street. It's one of those very tangible things that you can point to and say, well, you know, credit. He's actually done something. Politics has achieved something. Today, it was announced that the local authority would take back control of the bus network, setting fares and routes. It will be the first place outside of London to have a regulated system since the 1980s capping bus fares at two pound whereas previously you paid more than four quid for a you know single journey which is shocking free bus passes for 16 to 18 year olds lots of you know lots of good things to help people with the cost of living most of greater manchester he's a very popular mayor you know he's there were some stats out about the manchester seeing the the biggest fall in inner city deprivation that anywhere else in the country you know they can point to the rapid rise of buildings across greater manchester particularly central manchester office blocks new residential apartments you know it's been the fastest growing city economy i think of anywhere in the uk over the past past decade and people do attribute that to him well this is the this is the thing right because lots of the success of manchester was set trained two decades before he became mayor of Greater Manchester.

20:05That has just accelerated under his leadership. Whether he can take all the credit for that, I think he can't. But that said, there is a lot that he can point to and be proud of, I think, in his record as mayor. And really, it was during COVID that he was first referred to as the King of the North, which is a title that is inescapable every time his name is now mentioned. what was it about his handling of that crisis which then made him so popular during covid i think i was probably in a press conference or on the phone with andy burnham either every day or every week covid for andy burnham was you know this epitome of an over centralized government in that the government were deciding policy on the basis of a small room rather than listening to the needs of the rest of the country and what was actually happening in the rest of the country And he wasn't this kind of laissez-faire, let's-all-go-out politician.

21:01He was quite serious. He was listening to what experts were saying what was actually happening in the rest of the country. Sorry to interrupt you, but we are going to hear from Andy Burnham. I'm sure you'll want to hear this too. He wasn't invited to the COBRA meetings in London, so he used the media basically to get his message across to national government. Thank you, everybody. Thanks for coming. And I think people saw him as that voice for the North. To accept any further restrictions in these circumstances would be certain to increase levels of poverty, homelessness and hardship within our city region.

21:40There's that particular moment where he stood outside Bridgewater Hall in the centre of Manchester in this jacket and really, you know, incredibly righteous fury redirected down the camera lenses towards Boris Johnson. How can we carry the public with us through this pandemic if we are forcing them to lose their income? Saying, you know, Greater Manchester would not accept any more restrictions without consultation.

22:15You know, that was kind of the making of him, you know, in a public sense. And, you know, people really became aware of who he was outside of Greater Manchester at that point. I think, you know, there were beers named after him, King of the North IPA. The jacket that he wore was hung in a museum. Get out. It was. I don't know if it's still there. They didn't clean it before they put it up for display either because they wanted to keep, they call it the evidential soiling. I mean, it seems like it's kind of also the moment where he woke up to himself, right? I mean, it wasn't just what he said.

22:47there was this feeling that, you know, Andy Burnham, the political chameleon, was finally comfortable in his own skin. You know, he was dressing differently. He seemed more authentically passionate about what he was doing. How do you think that people in Manchester felt, Josh? And how successful do people generally think he's been? My sense is that people are quite proud to have Andy Burnham as the mayor. You know, part of the role is that you don't have every single power or you know unlimited money at your disposal but what you do what you are is a figurehead you know and i think he's done that part of the job very well and is he doing the work of politics any differently one of the big things of his term as greater manchester mayor has been bringing different political parties together to get things done the biggest example of this is working with the conservative government in order to you know bring more devolved powers for the regions he's spoken about you know this political pragmatism politics that's about place rather than you know point scoring i think he learned quite a lot from michael bloomberg who was one of the you know former mayor of new york right um working with different political parties to get things done and andy burnham i think has tried to put aside these political differences to you know deliver benefits for his area.

24:06So he's managed to build bridges, but I imagine not everyone is that enamoured of him. I mean, Josh, what would his critics say about him? His big criticism, I have to say, of his time as mayor is the introduction of the clean air zone, which is where high polluting cars would be charged up to 60 quid a day, the owners of them, which was, you know, his huge scheme. There were hundreds of signs and cameras went up across Greater Manchester, you know sort of 10 years or so ago and you know there was a massive public backlash and he and he sort of bottled it and didn't follow through completely scrapped the scheme and you know apparently it cost about 100 million pounds in order to set this thing up i mean he says that that money wasn't wasted because it went into the electrification of buses you know the rollout of the b network you know the signs the clean air zone signs that went up across greater to Manchester were only taken down last year.

25:02And they became kind of totemic of this big failure of politics. And it sort of speaks to that thing that people say about him, is that he really wants to be liked. He doesn't like being disliked. Coming up, what is Burnham's pitch to Makerfield and to the rest of the country?

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26:03Makerfield, no doubt, is going to be judged as a dress rehearsal in any case of his potential leadership race against Keir Starmer. Josh, what is Burnham's vision that he's offering to this constituency and to the Labour Party? You know, it's about devolving more powers to regions across the UK. It's about making life more affordable for people. He's spoken about taking public control of essential assets like water, energy. He thinks the privatisation of the bus network is one of the biggest flaws of the past two, three decades. and I think much more focused on these post-industrial areas across the Midlands, North and Wales, which haven't seen proper investment for a long time.