Can Farage survive racism and antisemitism allegations? – The Latest

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:07The accusation suggests a track record of racist and anti-Semitic behaviour by Farage while he was at Dulwich. Categorically on the record, you did not racially abuse fellow people. I would never ever do it in a hurtful or insulting way. The questions keep coming for Nigel Farage over allegations of racism and anti-Semitism during his school days. More people have now come forward. But speaking to the BBC, Farage's former UK deputy says it's all made up. This is all made up twaddled by people who don't want Nigel to be Prime Minister of the country. Funny how they didn't remember this three years ago, six years ago, ten years ago.

0:42When you have someone who says none of this happened and the people around him are saying none of this happened and the people who say it is a liar, but then there are more than two dozen people who recall otherwise, that's difficult to square. From the Guardians today in Focus, this is The Latest with me, Lucy Hoth. And I'm joined by Henry Dyer, Investigations Correspondent at The Guardian. And Henry, you've been working on this story for some weeks now. Henry, since you first reported this on the 18th of November, along with your colleague Dan Boffy, the story has continued to expand and more people have come forward, right?

1:17Yeah, so Dan and I, along with Mark Blacklock, who's been working on this story with us, we've still had other boys come forward from Dulwich College who were there at school with Farage at that time. in the late 1970s, early 1980s. And many of them are coming forward and saying that they corroborate what's happening and they're doing so in the face of denials from Farajan today and recently from Richard Tice. Yeah, which we'll come to. And so they're saying, and many of them on the record, that they remember what happened to Peter Ettingly. Some feel guilty about not having done anything to stop it, kind of offering their apologies.

1:57decades on for not having recognised that abuse at the time. And then others are saying, other boys from ethnic minority backgrounds are coming forward and saying, some on the record, that Farage used racist language to abuse them as well. So it's a combination of people who say they were victims of racist abuse or anti-Semitic abuse, as was the case with Peter Etigree, who, I mean, what he says was said to him by Naja Farage is really shocking isn't it yeah so i mean peter said that farage would sidle up to him and say hitler was right um would talk about gassing would make a hissing sound um people say that farage would say judah um and and just call peter a jew um frequently um and and use kind of other direct anti-semitic terms of abuse at him yeah and as we understand you know it was 49 years ago but Peter is still living with the impact of that well into his adult life.

3:00Meanwhile, we've been hearing from Reform's Deputy Chair, Richard Tice, who was interviewed on BBC Radio 4 this morning and was asked about this. And he says, effectively, that the more than two dozen people that you and the Guardian team have spoken to are effectively making this all up. Yes. What's particularly intriguing about this is this doesn't seem to be an off-the-cuff remark that Richard Tice made this morning on Today. He was actually asked about these accusations on Tuesday evening on GB News. And then he made this same supposition that the people we have spoken to are lying, that it's all a load of rubbish cooked up by people who are politically motivated and have a political act to guide.

3:44Now, some of the people we have spoken to are active in party politics, but it's a very, very small number of them. And we've been very open in saying that they are. So for instance, there's a guy who's chair of the Liberal Democrats in Salisbury and we included that and we told Reform that that was the case. But most of the people we've spoken to, you know, they may not agree with Farage or Reform politically but that's not to say that it is a political motivation or a party political motivation. You know, they're not doing this on behalf of the Labour Party or the Lib Dems to come forward and talk.

4:16They're doing this as boys who are there at Dulwich who say this is what they witnessed. Yeah, and we're talking about a very significant number of people. This is more than two dozen people, as I say. And the fact that Tice is saying that these people are lying, are making this up, has been really criticised, hasn't it? We've had the Labour chair, Anna Turley, saying that it would be deplorable for Tice to say people are lying when they've had the courage to come forward to talk about what they saw, even if historic. But what we're hearing from Tice is different to what we heard from Farage, isn't it, last month.

4:50So in the days after your reporting, Farage was notably very quiet, but he did then give a TV interview where he issued sort of something like a denial, but said he was participating in what he called playground banter. And if he was racist or offensive, that was not done with any intention. Yeah, so he said he had no intent to do it. He sort of offered a non-apology, you know, if he had, then he apologises for it. But on the other hand, he says he hadn't, you know, he kind of categorically has denied what Peter Etigoui has said happened to him. But Tice has taken that a step further and Tice is calling Peter Etigoui a liar and suggesting that Peter has made this up.

5:32Now, Tice has said, well, why didn't he mention this three years ago, six years ago, 10 years ago? And this is something he said twice, this point Richard Tice has made twice on Today and then a few days ago on GB News. But Peter Etigoui has spoken about this before. He spoke about it to Michael Crick when Michael Crick wrote his biography of Nigel Farage. Now, at the time, Peter Ettingly didn't go on the record with all of it. He wasn't willing to put his name to all of it. It's a very difficult thing to do. And, you know, Peter now finds himself at the centre of a lot of attention. So you understand why.

6:02But the times have changed. Farage is, you know, in the ascendancy politically. And so you can understand why that might cause someone to want to step forward and go on the record and kind of talk about that very openly. But to suggest that this is only now coming out is simply not an accurate kind of telling of events of when these accusations have come out. Tell me about the response to the story in the three weeks or so since you first published. Do you think it's having cut through with people who may be considering voting reform? I was interested to see the polling from YouGov on Monday that shows that slip from reform from 29 % to 25%.

6:42I mean, does that have any link to this, do you think? What these stories have really always been about is a question of character. It's a question of political character for Raj and a question of leadership. And the way that he and Reform have responded to this has made people question their political leadership. When we first went to Reform for this initial story, after a bit of back and forth with their lawyer, we eventually did get a comment from their spokesman. And their spokesman said the allegations are entirely without foundation. The Guardian has produced no contemporaneous record or corroborating evidence to support these disputed recollections from nearly 50 years ago.

7:17They said that we were seeking to discredit reform and suggested that we were smearing the party. When other people have been faced with accusations of wrongdoing in their past, some politicians come forward and they own what happened and they apologise for it. Instead, what reform has done is they have offered a number of positions ranging from at the first threatening lawsuits and saying that it is entirely false and defamatory through lawyers, then accepting that maybe some things had happened, but certainly not the way that it was being recalled. And now there's most recent positions called the sources that we've spoken to liars.

7:52Now, that is a series of positions which, as a member of the public, you might feel that a politician is not being straightforward and honest with you. And Farage has developed a lot of sort of credibility from people who feel like he is not like other politicians, that he says what really happened and he is honest with them. And I think when you have someone who says none of this happened and the people around him are saying none of this happened and the people who say it is a liar. But then there are more than two dozen people who recall otherwise. That's difficult to square. Yeah and just moving forward I mean Farage obviously says this was 49 years ago this is historic you know it's schoolboy playground stuff but what do you say to that and why is it so important for you and the team at The Guardian who've been looking into this to keep going with this work?

8:42Yeah so I mean it's one is I'd say it's not all 49 years ago that's been a lot of what they've sought to say but actually this spans Farage's time from when he was 13 at Dulwich all the way up to when he was about to leave and the point that people have made, Peter's made this point is the accusation suggests a track record of racist and anti-Semitic behaviour by Virage while he was at Dulwich and then the question is when he left Dulwich what happened to him next so how might that have shaped his thinking soon after he left Dulwich and then the way that he's responding to the accusations now, what does that say about his political leadership today and his ability to be open and honest with people Well Henry, thanks for your work and thanks for joining us today.

9:22Thanks so much That's it for today. Thanks for listening to this episode of The Latest, the new evening edition of Today in Focus, and we'll be dropping into your feeds every weekday evening with what you need to know about the story everyone's talking about in 10 minutes. Please do give us a watch over on YouTube. Today in Focus, we'll be back with you as normal tomorrow morning, and we'll see you tomorrow night. This episode was presented by me, Lucy Hoff. The producer was Ryan Ramgobin, and the lead producer was Zoe Hitch. This is The Guardian. .