Mandelson arrested: Epstein files fallout intensifies – The Latest

0:00Archie Bland:This is The Guardian.

0:11Lucy Hough:To be clear, it really is extraordinary. This is somebody who was at the very pinnacle of British politics. He was once known as the Prince of Darkness. Today, Lord Mandelson was escorted into the light.

0:22Archie Bland:Former British ambassador to the US, Peter Mandelson, has returned home around eight hours after being arrested on suspicion of misconduct in public office.

0:31Lucy Hough:So it's really something that seems to tarnish politicians from across the political spectrum. The question now is whether these two arrests lead to charges and if that does, I think we can expect a lot more attention on both sides of the Atlantic.

0:43Archie Bland:The former ambassador to the United States, Lord Peter Mandelson, has been arrested and released on bail over his ties to Jeffrey Epstein. From the Guardians today in Focus, this is The Latest with me, Lucy Hoth. I'm joined by Archie Bland, the Guardian's head of national news. So we have the extraordinary sight of Peter Mandelson, the former US ambassador, former cabinet minister under the previous Labour government, former lots of things, being led out of his house in Camden by police officers. He was taken into a police station for questioning. I think it's notable, first of all, that there was a bank of photographers outside his home in the first place to capture those images.

1:23Archie Bland:right. What do we know about the circumstances of his arrest? Because he was later released on bail.

1:29Lucy Hough:You know, I think possibly because of the arrest of Andrew Mountbatten in Windsor last week, it might almost seem like a less seismic moment than it might have done outside of that context. But to be clear, it really is extraordinary. This is somebody who was at the very pinnacle of British politics, held a number of very senior roles. And within the last year was the UK's ambassador to the US finally facing serious questions and arrest. I think the fact of a bank of photographers being outside of his home suggests the anticipation that this was quite likely to happen. And although we should be clear, first of all, that Peter Mandelson has denied any wrongdoing or doing anything motivated by financial gain, we also know that arrest doesn't necessarily mean charge, but we know that it means that they think there are serious questions to be answered and that they are pursuing the possibility of him being charged for misconduct in a public office.

2:17Archie Bland:Yeah, it's quite the thought, Archie, isn't it? To think of Peter Mandelson this time last year, being in Washington, enjoying all the glitz and glamour of one of the most prestigious jobs it's possible to get in diplomacy, in politics. And then yesterday in a police station for several hours being questioned by police. Why has this happened now? Because we understand this arrest is related to the release of the files, related to Jeffrey Epstein's case at the end of January. So it's taken police a few weeks to get to a point where they feel they can bring him in for questioning.

2:49Lucy Hough:Right. And, you know, we should be clear, and it is frequently being mentioned in stories rightly, that presence in the Epstein files is not itself an indication of criminal wrongdoing. And part of the reason that we say that is because the visible presence of an email in a file like that does not constitute in itself proof that would stand up in court that that email was sent, for example, or whatever the underlying circumstances of that email might be. So police will have been contacting US authorities to try to get the kind of original materials on which all of this was based and also contacting relevant witnesses, other people who might have been around at the time who can provide evidence on all of this.

3:28Lucy Hough:Misconduct in a public office and as an offence is famously quite hard to get a successful prosecution for. And so the police will have a high bar for making sure that they get to a place where they feel that a charge is justified.

3:40Archie Bland:Yeah, we should say again that Peter Mandelson denies any wrongdoing and says that he believes he's not guilty of a criminal offence. But nonetheless, over the last few weeks, police have been carrying out searches in his house in Camden, but also his house in Wiltshire. Clearly, they feel they now have enough questions to proceed to an arrest. Speculatively, we know that the emails in question relate to allegations, what appears to show that Peter Mandelson was sharing market sensitive, confidential government information with Jeffrey Epstein. So in terms of arresting someone for misconduct in public office, that's the sort of material that police are likely to have been looking at.

4:21Lucy Hough:Yeah, and without speaking to the specifics of this case, we can say that in general, for misconduct in the public office, you need to be able to show as a prosecutor that somebody willfully didn't do their duty, that not doing it amounted to a betrayal of the public trust or corroded the public trust, and that all of that was done with no reasonable excuse. So that is the kind of bar that we're talking about. If that were to be applied to the Peter Maddelson allegations, then they will still need to demonstrate all of those points, whatever the underlying emails say, in order to satisfy a jury that stands up.

4:56Archie Bland:Yeah, and I think what we do know for sure is that this is likely the beginning of a long and complex process, given the challenge of prosecuting an offence like misconduct in public office, as you say. But for Keir Starmer, you know, it continues to be a really, really big headache, doesn't it? And a real question about his judgment in appointing Lord Mandelson as ambassador in the first place. His government has faced pressure to release documents related to that appointment, emails, text messages. the date for that release is still next week we hear does does the police investigation have any implication for the sorts of documents that we might see released into the public?

5:36Lucy Hough:So we have most recently been told yes early March is when they're expected it's going to be a really significant number of documents it's not quite an Epstein files scale of a release but there are a lot of documents here and yes Darren Jones Chief Secretary to the Prime Minister said yesterday that there would be some documents that would not be included in that release after consultations with the police. So it does affect what will come out. It will also probably affect exactly how all of that is reported on. But nonetheless, a really significant tranche is expected next week, and it's really likely to be very significant as a news event as well.

6:11Archie Bland:So Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, formerly Prince Andrew, was arrested just days prior to Lord Mandelson. We are also likely to see some documents related to his appointments as UK trade envoy in 2001 rights as per a motion that's passing through the Commons this afternoon or expected to pass.

6:29Lucy Hough:Yeah and this is the Liberal Democrats using the same slightly arcane parliamentary procedure called the humble address to force the release of documents as the Conservatives used to force the release of documents over Peter Maddelson. But whereas that was politically really toxic for the government and put even more severe pressure on Keir Starmer than he had already faced because of the government's attempt to kind of slow walk that. This time around they have signalled that they will not oppose the release of those documents so it's likely to be less politically difficult for them. That's partly you suspect because this is about documents relating to Andrew's appointment in the early 2000s.

7:04Lucy Hough:It's not a kind of a current politically toxic question for anybody who's in the government today. There may be other kind of former new Labour figures who would be implicated in that decision but it doesn't quite have the same degree of pain for them and part of one way that you can see that is in the fact that even Ed Davey, who is the leader of the party, which is calling for this release, has acknowledged this morning that he previously in his role as a government minister during the coalition brushed off allegations against Andrew as mere innuendo, which he has apologised for. So it's really something that seems to tarnish politicians from across the political spectrum.

7:38Archie Bland:Yeah, and we shouldn't forget that the Conservative government, when they took office in 2010, renewed Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor's role as trade envoy back then so they will have questions to answer too no doubt and lastly Archie I mean obviously this has been making headlines around the world that these two very senior people in public life in Britain a former prince a former US ambassador have been arrested in connection with their ties to Jeffrey Epstein I was just looking at a post on X from the Democrat party who've created a table on one side saying the number of people in Britain arrested over this with images of Andrew and Peter Mandelson on one side, and then the number of arrests in America being zero.

8:22Archie Bland:It's fascinating to watch how this is being reported around the world, isn't it?

8:25Lucy Hough:Yeah, and there clearly is a sense in the US that this is a primarily American crisis and that the only kind of significant legal action to be taken on the back of it is in the UK. I sometimes wonder if that's partly because honestly, our kind of bar for what constitutes scandalous behaviour here is a little bit lower than it can be in the US sometimes. There are also real questions to be asked about the difficulty of prosecuting the alleged crimes against women that seem to have taken place on an industrial scale and how even in the UK that appears to be a much higher bar to meet for reasons reasonable because of the complexity of the process but also perhaps reflecting a deeper sense of what really matters to a society in a way that a lot of people will find objectionable.

9:03Lucy Hough:So it has obviously created a real stir in the US. the question now is whether these two arrests lead to charges and if that does I think we can expect a lot more attention on both sides of the Atlantic.

9:15Archie Bland:I think you might be right Archie thank you so much.

9:17Lucy Hough:No problem.

9:19Archie Bland:That's it for today my huge thanks again to Archie Bland the Guardian's head of national news you can keep up with live coverage of this story over at theguardian.com. Thanks for listening to this episode of The Latest the new evening edition of Today in Focus. Today in Focus We'll be back with you as usual tomorrow morning and the latest will be back tomorrow night. This episode was presented by me, Lucy Half. It was produced by Bryony Moore. The senior producer was Ryan Ramgobin. The lead producer was Zoe Hitch.

9:49Archie Bland:This is The Guardian.