On the ground in the Belfast riots

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:08Today, under siege in Belfast, the immigrant communities fearing for their lives.

0:24On Tuesday evening, Samaya and Stella, two housemates from Uganda, were at home in West Belfast when they heard some noise outside.

0:32Hannah Al-Othman:They were in their house and basically they saw some of the violence beginning. The women are care workers, but they're also students. Samaya is studying adult health at a local college and Stella is doing an MBA at Ulster University. They told their story to Guardian reporter Hannah L. Othman. They said there were a group of men and boys. So it all started like people were just marching young boys between the age of 9 and 20. They were all putting on black and masks. They were all dressed in dark clothing. They had face coverings. And they noticed them start to gather near their flat. And they initially hoped it would pass over fairly peacefully.

1:14It seemed like it was a peaceful demonstration to us. They knew what the protest was about. It was prompted by a horrific knife attack in the city on Monday, which saw the victim lose an eye. A Sudanese refugee had been arrested, and there was fear of riots after videos of the attack spread around the world. But still, Stella and Samaya were hoping that the men and boys outside their window weren't going to kick off.

1:38Hannah Al-Othman:And then they then began to start trying to set fire to a bus. So they set fire to the tyres of a bus, and they were watching from inside the house. and then they collected the beans outside and then started also burning them and then we were like maybe it will not escalate. They were still watching and hoping well you know maybe this is as bad as it will get but then they said around 7 o 'clock they saw them approaching their house. Stella. Stella. Stella. Samaya's actually sent me some video. Oh my God they've started breaking houses. They've started breaking houses. Like at around 7.38, that is when they started petrol-booming the houses.

2:20Hannah Al-Othman:They could see sort of flames from the neighbouring houses, sort of licking up towards theirs. So when the smoke started, it was just coming direct to our houses. So we called the police, we called the fire brigade. And then, you know, their house started being targeted. They started throwing bricks. I think they said stones or bricks or rocks at the window. breaking all the windows of the house so the police kept us telling us like don't calm down we know you can hear the breaking of the glasses the smoke was too much in the house so they had this mob outside attacking their home they had smoke coming in through the letterbox through through the gaps in in the door and they were told don't leave it's not safe for you to leave Samaya actually passed out.

3:08Hannah Al-Othman:She was so scared, she fainted. It was fear, like it was fear because I really knew they were going to burn the house because I saw our neighbours' houses, like they had burnt the houses. The smoke was actually coming into our house. Yeah, so I think I blacked out because I couldn't believe it. Why, like this is really happening? She was unconscious for around half an hour. Stella was on the phone to the emergency services. They were trying to tell her what to do.

3:41Hannah Al-Othman:and one of the sort of most poignant things that they told me that really got to me was they were told by i presume it was the 999 operator to go and put on their care uniform so they told us to put on uniforms maybe in case these guys broke into the house maybe the tags on the uniform because if these men break into your house, they may have some sympathy for you, they may potentially view you differently if they realise that you're a care worker. So, so, so terrifying. So I wasn't feeling well because I couldn't believe my eyes, like it was too much, too much, too much. From The Guardian, I'm Helen Pitt.

4:26Today in Focus. On the ground in Belfast after a week of unrest.

4:36Hannah, thanks for being here. I know it's been a very, very hectic few days. Yeah, yeah, it has. And you've been in Belfast since the unrest there erupted on Tuesday. And we should say at the top of the episode that we're not going to be discussing in detail the attack itself because there are reporting restrictions in place to prevent prejudice to the criminal proceedings. But you went to Belfast on Tuesday after various far-right figures encouraged people to take to the streets. Tommy Robinson posted on X calling for protest to what he called an invader attack. They were also encouraged by people like Elon Musk.

5:10And at the same time, there was WhatsApp messages circulating from anonymous accounts calling for men aged 18 and over in Northern Ireland to be prepared to fight or be arrested. Tell me, what was it like when you got there what did you see on Tuesday night?

5:25Hannah Al-Othman:So I arrived sort of late afternoon on Tuesday and at first it felt fairly quiet so I got here and there wasn't really anything much going on but then you know reports began to filter through that things were starting to happen. This could get pretty ugly. It's still very early on in the night. I mean, we've seen kind of smoke in the area because protesters had... So I went up to the Shankill Road, which is quite a loyalist area. Well, it's a very loyalist area in West Belfast. I found sort of, say, two to three hundred people. It was quite an odd gathering at first because they recited the Lord's Prayer.

6:17Hannah Al-Othman:And then there was sort of cheering and clapping and then basically they started marching off. And then basically where the march was heading to was to a house of a Romanian family who had been targeted twice before. And they started throwing fireworks through the letterbox. They started throwing bricks at the house. The window had clearly already been smashed in the past because it was boarded up the downstairs window. But there were sort of smaller windows downstairs and upstairs. They were throwing bricks towards those. And the house had like a quite a cheap looking, but a security camera mounted on the front.

7:05Hannah Al-Othman:So it was obvious that, you know, this house had been a target before. We just saw this woman come to the window and look from an upstairs window at what was happening outside, which was this whole group of, you know, hundreds of men trying to break into a house. And then I heard a woman say, you know, there's wee girls in there. Gosh.

7:31Hannah Al-Othman:And it was just a really horrible situation because you couldn't do anything. The police weren't there. There's one police car with two officers in, but they were sort of just, you know, they obviously felt they couldn't intervene, so they were just watching from a distance. And you could see, and then eventually these men barged the door in and got into the house. And as I understand it, that Romanian family was ultimately taken to safety by a neighbour. But why would the rioters go to a house of a Romanian family when the guy who'd been arrested on suspicion of murder is a Sudanese national?

8:11Hannah Al-Othman:They were targeting any immigrant families. It was Ugandan families, it was Sudanese families, it was Romanian families, it was Ukrainian families. So that was happening there. And then we sort of moved across the city and then there were wheelie bins set on fire, street furniture The police obviously put up these big plastic roadblocks. They set fire to them.

8:37There were men walking around with bottles of petrol in their hands.

8:43Hannah Al-Othman:And then we got to East Belfast. And then that was where the bus was on fire. More homes had been set on fire there. Another Romanian family, a Sudanese family, the fire brigade were there trying to bring those fires under control. the police had got into those houses and sort of evacuated people, but just all across Belfast. So we covered sort of west, north and east. It sounds really frightening. What do we know about the people who were rioting? My understanding is that it was mostly loyalists. So people from the Protestant side, some of them were wearing the colours. So things like, you know, Northern Ireland football shirts or rangers.

9:24Hannah Al-Othman:And again, it was in predominantly loyalist areas. They all seemed to know each other. We were told by some people living there that some of the Catholics had come to join in. We saw some of that online.

9:42We heard at the start of the episode from Stella and Samaya about how their street came under attack on Tuesday night. Houses were set on fire, their windows were smashed, Samaya passed out, terrified at the angry mob outside. And when the women called 999, they were told to put on their care uniforms in the hope that if any of the rioters broke in, they might show them some mercy. No one was coming to help them escape until a local pastor heard what was happening. And you spoke to him at his church. Because I'm the pastor of one of the women who was attacked. She's a good Christian woman. Tell me about Pastor Jack McGee.

10:18Hannah Al-Othman:He's 74, Jack McGee. He's obviously lived through the troubles. He's seen riots on the streets in Belfast before and he said, I didn't want to be out there. I didn't want to get involved. But then because I know there's quite a number of people in the church are from Africa and other places, I began to phone round after 10 o 'clock just to check they're OK. And then I heard one of them, their house was attacked. He got in his car and basically drove to their house, to Samaya and Stella. that. When he got there, I mean, it was horrendous. Four fire engines, police officers in riot care, a crowd of guys standing masked up, bricks in their hands.

10:58Hannah Al-Othman:He spoke to these men and said, you know, there's two women in there. Please just give me 10 minutes to get them out. So I had to go over and talk to them. And I played it with them. Religion runs deep here. And, you know, they still had this respect for this church pastor. and he said, you know, when he was speaking to them, some of them dropped their bricks and they put them down. And he said they did allow him those 10 minutes and he went in with the fire brigade. And six fire officers had literally a carrier out of the house, horrendously traumatised. And he got them into his car with him and his wife and took them to his house and put them up.

11:38And so you met Stella, Samira and Pastor McGee the next day at their church, the New Life City Church in Belfast. How were they the morning after?

11:50Hannah Al-Othman:I think they were still quite shell-shocked. They were still in the clothes from the night before. So, you know, they said, this is what we'd left our home and we've got nothing. You know, Samaya said what had happened had changed her whole view of Belfast. And how has your experience of Belfast been so far until now? It's been OK. Like, I really understand maybe there is that ratio differences, but I hadn't gotten into such. Like, I manage them just like any other person in a new country. You expect all that, but then you have the positivity in you. Like, everyone stays in their own lane. To me, it was a very peaceful place until yesterday.

12:31Like, it really changed my mind.

12:34Hannah Al-Othman:And she said they hadn't told family back home. So she said they wouldn't believe this would happen in what she described as a first world country, the United Kingdom. She said that her family just wouldn't believe it. We are not illegal migrants. We are not. We are here legally. We got visas. We paid money to come here. I am really dedicated to serving the community. That is it. And someone who is actually rioting doesn't know that the person they are targeting is actually looking after their mother or their granny. Meanwhile, I left my mother back home. Yeah, so I'm just not happy. I'm potentially caring for their mum, for their granny, and I've left my own mother at home in Uganda to do that.

13:20And, you know, she said, maybe it's high time I go home. I felt like maybe I'm just giving up. Maybe it's high time I go home.

13:42clearly there were pockets of bravery and kindness people like pastor jack mcgee going in to to rescue people like these women and sort of beyond him like what was what was belfast like on wednesday

13:56Hannah Al-Othman:what was the atmosphere like what were people telling you so belfast was completely dead on Wednesday everything was shut even in the city centre it was like a ghost town the only place you could even get anything for dinner was in one of the hotels and then in the sort of more residential areas where I went out to it was quite a strange atmosphere and and it really you know what people saying really depended on who you spoke to so some people actually quite defiant um and in the chanquil road um area where the romanian family had forced had been forced out the neighbors were saying well we told them twice to leave the the windows have been put through twice before and they didn't go so this was the last straw and then but why what's the what what's why well the graffiti nearby potentially said it all it said local homes for local people So there was a feeling that immigrants were jumping the queue for social housing?

14:57Hannah Al-Othman:Yeah, or even for affordable privately rented housing. There was a sense that, you know, they were getting access to these houses in a way that white British people could not. And did you meet many people in Belfast who were appalled at what had happened? Yes. So, so many people were appalled by it. And, you know, this is a community that's lived through so much violence she speaks to older people they've seen it all before we spoke to one woman and she said you know they've taken all my recycling they take my wheelie bin and she had two autistic children in the house and trying to explain to them to her daughters what was happening and not being able to do that and then obviously there was also the shock and the disgust at seeing their neighbours targeted.

15:50Hannah Al-Othman:So, you know, I think Samaya said this, she said, just as immigrants committing crimes do not represent all immigrants, the people committing this violence do not represent all people living in Belfast. It's very generous of her to say that, isn't it? It is. And what just happened to her. And on Wednesday, the suspect appeared in court and the family of the victim in the case who's called Stephen Ogilvie the family released a statement didn't they what did they say their statement was you know really powerful they basically um said you know not in his name they they condemned the violence they called for it to stop um they said they were disgusted they did and they also sort of praised the contribution that immigrants make to, well, I think they specifically referenced the care sector, which Stella and Samai are working.

16:48Hannah Al-Othman:They also said the hospitality industry and they recognise that valuable contribution that immigrants make to society here and they called for people not to participate in any further violence. Yeah, they said that peaceful protest is only ever the way forward and that came in pretty stark contrast to what various high-profile politicians were saying after the attack. We had Zia Youssef, who's the Home Affairs spokesman for Reform UK, talking about the treachery of governments who have allowed immigrants to come into the country. And then you had Rupert Lowe, who, of course, an ex-Reform MP, who now runs his own outfit called Restore Britain, which is hoping to disrupt the Maker Field by-election next week, who tweeted after Zak Polanski had labelled his party extremist.

17:37He said the real extremist position is to willingly import savage third world animals who attempt to behead others in the street. Just my thoughts. And he's also called for the reintroduction of the death penalty to prevent attacks committed by what he called barbarians. What do you make of language like that?

17:54Hannah Al-Othman:I mean, it's clearly not helpful when public authorities are doing their best to try to really keep a lid on any further disorder. So Keir Starmer, Prime Minister, has said it won't be tolerated. The acts of violence and arson that followed are totally unjustified. This morning I spoke with the First Minister... In court, the judge also. It was a really unprecedented intervention. So he said this hearing is now concluded in terms of the suspect. But then he said, I am aware of these messages circulating encouraging men to gather and wear masks and dark clothing and participate in this violence.

18:40Hannah Al-Othman:And I'm not sure I've ever heard a judge make a similar intervention, but he said, you know, you will go to prison and I want to get I want that message to get out loud and clear. So you had Starmer saying he wasn't going to tolerate violent disorder of this kind. you had the family calling for calm but those calls for calm weren't weren't really heeded were they because what happened on Wednesday night? So on Wednesday night we saw a more concentrated area of disorder so it wasn't as widespread as the night before but it was really really serious so a list had been circulating of HMOs that apparently house migrants I've been told that not all of them do houses of multiple occupancy that become a real bugbear haven't they for restore and reform on the right yeah yes there is one hotel that i'm told um is still used to house migrants asylum seekers so there was an attempt to attack that but the police had already closed off access to it i was also told that some of the people staying there had also been moved um in advance of that.

19:48Hannah Al-Othman:But basically, they'd attempted to get to this hotel. They hadn't been able to do that. So it turned into a huge standoff with the police in a residential street. Lines of riot police battled for hours to hold back a crowd which was trying to reach a hotel housing refugees. Just one of a number of addresses on a so-called hit list circulated online of target locations linked to immigrants. so it was ripping up people's driveways to use the stones to throw on police fireworks were thrown at police they set fires in the street water cannons were deployed and again one of the really poignant things I saw was sort of a small elderly woman I couldn't see exactly how old she was but I was told she was older sitting in a bus stop between the line of rioters and the water cannons and at one point when the water was sort of shooting in that direction she just lifted up the hood of her puffer coat and I said to a woman I said why is she there and she said she's lived through the trouble she says she's not gonna move

20:58coming up the Sudanese family who barricaded themselves in their home as the violence raged outside

21:23When Jamal claimed asylum in the UK six years ago, he chose to settle in Belfast. Actually, I was considering the idea of going to England when I came here the first day in 2020, the first of June. I thought it's more safe for my family. He's from Sudan, a lawyer by training. He fled the Sudanese civil war in 2020 with his wife and four children. I'm a father of four kids, two daughters and two sons. I never regretted staying here in Balfaz. He's clearly very proud of the life he's built here. My daughter graduated from Queen's University. I'm practicing law now. My son graduated from Ulster as an engineer.

22:09My youngest daughter is in year 10 in a grammar school, which is a very high class, you know. She's doing really great. My son is admitted to Ulster University, civil engineering this year. Wow, you've got four clever children.