Starmer clings on amid Labour deadlock - The Latest

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:30While I get the job done, no bills in sight. What a life. Do right by yourself and your business and search Xero for your free trial. Conditions apply.

0:45If Labour messes this up, then the chances are we have a Nigel Farage government. I know that people are frustrated and some people frustrated with me. Keir Stubber promised a gesture, but it wasn't a holiday to the Maldives. It was like a£3.99 bunch of roses from the garage down the road. For a lot of Labour and Peace, something needs to change. The question is what and when. I know I have my doubters and I know I need to prove them wrong and I will. This kind of whole game theory that a lot of what you do depends on what other people do and it's very, very hard to predict, very fast moving. We're still in this deadlock, really.

1:20Keir Starmer is feisting for his political survival as a make-or-break speech fails to calm mutinous MPs and calls grow for him to go by September. From the Guardians today in Focus, this is The Latest with me, Lucy Hoff. Well, I'm joined by Peter Walker, our senior political correspondent. Thanks for dialing in from Westminster, Peter, on a very dramatic and fast-moving day and a very dramatic weekend in the wake of... I mean, dramatic today up to a point, as much as Keir Starmo manages drama, but yes. Yes, yes, that's a fair point. But nonetheless, Labour sort of mopping up the catastrophe of the loss of nearly 1 ,500 seats last week in the local elections.

2:02An unexpected leadership challenge yesterday from Labour MP Catherine West. And then a make or break speech by the Prime Minister this morning in London to the public. But predominantly, I think it's safe to say to his MPs, effectively asking them not to sack him and to give him a little more time. Give us a rundown of the state of play. We're talking about half two on Monday. To an extent, a state of play is largely where we were, you know, where we have been in the days since the elections, which weren't so bad for Labour on Thursday. There are a lot of Labour MPs who are very, very, very peeved with the way things are going.

2:40More than peeved, really, they're incredibly worried about this idea that the elections, not just across English councils, to an extent in Scotland, but mainly in Wales, where Labour did really, really badly. they think it shows that Keir Starmer is not turning things around that they're losing votes to reform on the right and the Greens on the left and they have this really kind of dreadful worry which Keir Starmer articulates in his speech to an extent that if Labour messes this up then the chances are we have a Nigel Farage government going into number 10 in a couple of years time or maybe three years time and for a lot of Labour and peace that worries them enormously So if you speak to almost any of them kind of privately, they will say something needs to change.

3:25The question is what and when. And to an extent, we still are where we are, that there's a smallish number of likely leadership contenders. So West Streeting, the most obvious one, Angela Rayner, perhaps Andy Burnham, if you can get back into Parliament. But no one has as yet fired the starting gun. So, you know, we're still in this deadlock, really. So for Keir Starmer, I mean, it was, I think, safe to say, a heartfelt speech, you know, with his sleeves rolled up. He spoke a lot about his family, his working class roots. He spoke about, he took accountability for the losses of last week, full accountability and promised a sort of new direction of travel.

4:05But for Labour MPs, the sort of sense that we're getting is it wasn't quite enough to win back hearts and minds. What are you hearing? I mean, it was a decent speech in terms of Keir Starmer's speeches. It was a probably solid eight out of ten. But the sense I got from Labour MPs is that they just wanted something more. They wanted something different. It's kind of like, I don't know, like a marriage is on the rocks and one partner keeps on getting things wrong and the other one is saying, God, make a massive gesture. And Keir Starmer promised a gesture, but it wasn't a holiday to the Maldives.

4:37It was like a£3.99 bunch of roses from the garage down the road. It's stuff they've seen before. I quite like supermarket flowers, but anyway. Right. Anyone listening, that's duly noted. But I think it was not only the delivery that they wanted, but they wanted some more substance because what a lot of Labour MPs are increasingly realising is that when reform wins seats, particularly in the kind of northern, quote, red wall areas, and also in some of the London councils too, because Labour are losing votes not only to them, but also to the Greens, which is splitting the left vote. And what a lot of them want is, I mean, they understand the rationale for having a kind of reasonably robust immigration offer.

5:19So reform don't hoover up every single small C conservative vote. But they want some kind of offering to show to voters who might be tempted to go green, you know, look, you can go with us. And I think it would have probably had to be something big. They're quite scuppered by the fact there's no money around. But I mean, I don't know. I don't make the policies, but it could have been a nod towards electoral reform or closer links with Europe. He did talk about Europe quite a lot. And interestingly said he thought Brexit had made the UK less secure and less rich, which is quite something. Which was a direct attack line against Nigel Farage, who he said, you know, promised you the world when he campaigned for Brexit, secured Brexit in no small part and failed Britain as a nation.

6:02I just want to talk about this intervention from Catherine West, which has been really interesting over the weekend. I think it's safe to say not a household name that was on the front page of Sunday newspapers yesterday with this direct leadership challenge, the first to put her head above the parapet. She's since in the wake of this speech said it was a good speech, but it's too little too late. She's rode back from her direct leadership challenge, but she set out a timetable of September for a sort of orderly transition, which would require signatures of 81 MPs, 20 % of the parliamentary Labour Party to back that.

6:41Where do things stand there? How much of a risk is Starmer facing? it's difficult to say because the one practical point to note is that even if she did have more than 81 MPs replying to this email she sent to all Labour MPs saying yes I do want him to set a timetable that has no force if you have 81 MPs saying that they're going to back you to challenge for the for the leadership under Labour rules that does mean something but just saying we would like him to go at a certain point you know it doesn't force him to do anything yeah it has the kind of effect of being a no confidence letter but you'd probably need more than 80 MPs to do that with West it's quite interesting because no one expected that she is you know reasonably long serving MP she represents a North London constituency I've been talking to people who know her and who who understand the rationale for what she did and apparently she was sitting watching the results come in and she's a formal former council leader and she saw so many friends in North London councils just lose their seats and she's getting more and more angry and thinking surely someone's going to do something.

7:45But then no one did. And apparently she decided to just immediately act before everyone got back to Westminster and she was basically talked round from doing it. But I think the reason that she's had this slight switch from being a direct leadership challenge to be this call for him to go at a certain time is it gives everyone a bit more time. And apparently her feeling is she doesn't want to have a leadership change, which people feel they were pushed into, which feels like a stitch-up. If it does take place, she wants it to happen in a kind of orderly way. And one that doesn't resemble the sort of Tory regicide chaos of the 14 years where Prime Ministers were so often toppled.

8:26And that's something that Labour is very keen to avoid. But interestingly, Starmer, in response to our own political editor, Pippa Creera, said he intends to fight any leadership challenge. So it's looking like regardless of what plays out, it could get very messy. In terms of the contenders, I mean, you outline some of the names that regularly circulate, West Streeting, Andy Burnham and Angela Rayner. Ed Miliband's name is also being floated as perhaps a sort of temporary bridge leader. As a stand-in Andy Burnham. Well, I'm sure he'd love that, Monica. But what do we know? I mean, eyes are on West Streeting, right, whose leadership ambitions are no secret.

9:05Is there any sense that he is planning to move or does he agree with this idea that it would be better if it was done in an orderly fashion closer to the autumn? There's a lot of people who believe he is going to move. Over the weekend, there were reasonably well-informed people who were saying, look, he's going to do it, he's going on Monday, it's all in train. But then when he put it to Streeting's allies, as we're obliged to call them, they were going, no, absolutely not. And they point to the fact that Streeting, after elections on Thursday, did put out a supportive tweet or statement. I think the sense with him is that he still doesn't want to be the first person, even though he might be.

9:45But if someone else went for it, then he would. There is an incentive for him to go early in the sense of if he did wait until, say, September, Andy Burnham might be back in the Commons. I would probably have a better chance of winning over the Labour membership in a final vote. but it's like this kind of whole game theory that a lot of what you do depends on what other people do and it's very very hard to predict very fast moving if i had to guess and this is i stress purely a guess i think he probably will do something in the coming weeks because it's perhaps unsustainable particularly if the pm doesn't set a timetable which he doesn't seem keen to do yeah um but then you know angela rayner could equally do that as well yeah and we've been hearing from Angela Rayner in a pre-arranged speech but nonetheless she used that opportunity to address a number of the points that Starmer raised in his speech this morning.

10:37She over the weekend issued quite a punchy statement where she said she felt that the pace of change was not fast enough. She was clear about this message of giving a last chance warning to Starmer and she also said it was a mistake to prevent Andy Burnham from standing as an MP in Gordon and Denton. Where does she sit in all of this? I mean, she's still embroiled in her own tax affairs, which put limitations on her ability to put herself into the ring at the moment. But she seems to be perhaps leaning towards Burnham in all of this. It's interesting because Angela Rayner might decide that she suddenly needs to go for it.

11:15You know, she's being talked up quite a lot as potentially a second fiddle in another leadership bid, whether it's Andy Burnham or Ed Miliband. but I get the sense that one thing she doesn't really like is being talked up as the supporting cast for a man's beard so you never know. Well, it sounds like, Peter, that Keir Starmer lives on another day but it's going to be a tumultuous few weeks and months. Maybe a day, who knows? Exactly, but we will no doubt speak soon. Thank you. Thank you. That's it for today. My huge thanks to Peter Walker, The Guardian's senior political correspondent. You can keep up with his reporting and rolling coverage of this story over at theguardian.com And do listen to today's episode of our sister podcast, Politics Weekly, which will have more analysis on a dramatic day from Pippa Creera and Kieran Stacey.

12:01Before we go, I just wanted to tell you about a new video podcast that our New York office is launching. It's called Stateside with Kai and Carter, and it's hosted by our colleagues Kai Wright and Carter Sherman. Each week, they're going to be making sense of some of the biggest stories happening right now. The show will feature conversations with some of the smartest thinkers and reporters, not just from The Guardian, but across the world. It's launching on the 13th of May with episodes every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. You can find it in full video on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.

12:30Thanks for listening to this episode of The Latest. Today in Focus will be back in your feeds as usual tomorrow morning. The Latest will be back tomorrow night. This episode was presented by me, Lucy Hoff. It was produced by Sam Gruet. The senior producer was Bryony Moore. The lead producer was Zoe Hitch.

12:49This is The Guardian.

13:15Books that automate? That's a big one. And I can keep track from my phone while I get the job done. No spreadsheet in sight. What a life. Do right by yourself and your business and search XERO for your free trial. Conditions apply.