In short
The episode (Guardian “Today in Focus”) investigates Chris Harbourn (also known as Chakrit Sakankrit), a secretive billionaire living mainly in Bangkok/Thailand, and his role bankrolling Nigel Farage’s Reform/ Brexit Party. It claims Harbourn gave about £22 million to Farage-related parties, including roughly two-thirds of Reform UK funding, with major surges in 2019 and later. Background: born 1962 in Mossborough near the Peak District; privileged upbringing; Westminster and Cambridge; finance work after the Asian financial crisis; later crypto trading and stakes in Tether (stablecoin issuer).
Key claims
Harbourn’s donations correlate with pro-crypto positions by Farage and others, despite denials of any quid pro quo.
Notable examples
Farage’s 2019 European election win; Farage’s 2024/2025 return travel costs paid by Harbourn; funding to support Chagos Island travel.
Guests
Tom Burgess (Guardian investigations reporter) and Helen Pitt (host/interviewer).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOThe Kamalaya Wellness Sanctuary
1:02 to 3:18
Exploring the setting and the introduction of Chris Harbourn.
“Lush, jungly foliage, good luck plants with these kind of burgundy leaves.”
Who is Chris Harbourn?
3:18 to 4:05
Examining the background and significance of Chris Harbourn.
“and why is he donating so much money to Nigel Farage?”
Harbourn's Political Importance
4:05 to 4:50
Discussion on Harbourn's role as a major donor for Farage.
“So you've spent a lot of time recently looking into this guy, Chris Harbourn.”
Harbourn's Early Life and Career
4:50 to 5:32
Insight into Harbourn's upbringing and initial career moves.
“I think we can safely say that Reform, Nigel Farage's political project, Reform Now, the Brexit Party as it was, is uniquely dependent on this mega donor, Chris Harbourn.”
The Financial Crisis and Wealth Accumulation
5:32 to 6:50
How Harbourn capitalized on the Asian financial crisis.
“So there's Christopher Charles Sheriff Harbour, born 1962 in Mossborough.”
Political Donations: From Tories to Farage
6:50 to 8:02
Chronology of Harbourn's donations to UK political parties.
“trying to work out what stocks will go up and what stocks will go down and whose debt's good and bad and that's just when this massive financial crisis starts in Asia.”
The Mystery of Chris Harbourn
8:02 to 9:11
Exploring Harbourn's secretive nature and lack of public presence.
“Right, well, he says it's something you're obliged to do when you take citizenship.”
Rise to Wealth: Cryptocurrency Ventures
9:11 to 11:02
Harbourn's investments in cryptocurrency and tech.
“And so there is very limited amount to see on him.”
Harbourn's Impact on British Politics
11:02 to 12:23
How Harbourn's donations reshaped the political landscape.
“And then there's his other cryptocurrency, and it's based on this platform called Ethereum.”
The Rise of Chris Harbourn's Influence
14:01 to 23:24
Learn about Chris Harbourn's financial contributions to the Brexit Party and their impact on UK politics.
“By early 2019, Chris Harbourn is on the scene and he gives 200 grand.”
Show all 15 chapters
Understanding Harbourn's Motivations
26:08 to 28:13
Explore the motivations behind Harbourn's financial support and its implications for cryptocurrency legislation.
“How crypto is going to be treated in the UK and how crypto is going to be treated globally.”
The Landscape of Crypto in the UK and US
28:13 to 29:12
Explore the contrasting approaches to cryptocurrency regulation in the US and UK.
“Now, obviously, crypto has all sorts of perfectly legitimate uses as to the stablecoin.”
Legal Challenges and Responses from Harbourn
29:12 to 30:25
Discuss the legal communications received from Chris Harbourn's representatives regarding donations.
“They wrote a letter when I wrote to Harbourn saying, can we have an interview?”
Concerns Over Foreign Donations in UK Politics
30:25 to 31:30
Examine the implications of foreign donations on UK democracy and political influence.
“But we've also got what Faraz himself has said when he was asked by a reporter about these donations, these massive donations from Harbourn.”
The Risks of Mega Donors in Politics
31:30 to 33:18
Analyze the risks associated with reliance on mega donors and their influence on democracy.
“And you've told us already that somebody who knows Harbourn says that he aspires to become the king of crypto.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00David Aaronovitch:This is The Guardian.
0:07Christopher Harborne:Today, the secretive billionaire bankrolling Nigel Farage.
0:30Christopher Harborne:Stamps.com. Print postage on demand 24-7 and schedule pickups from your office or home. Save up to 90 % with automated rate shopping. That's why over 1 million small businesses trust Stamps.com. Go to Stamps.com and use code PODCAST to try Stamps.com risk-free for 60 days.
1:01David Aaronovitch:I'd like to transport you to the Thai island of Koh Samui. It's this kind of paradise island. Lush, jungly foliage, good luck plants with these kind of burgundy leaves. Rich foliage all around, the lapping waters of the Gulf of Thailand.
1:23Christopher Harborne:This is Tom Burgess, an investigations reporter at The Guardian. He's describing the Kamalaya Wellness Sanctuary in Thailand. That's where, one balmy evening last year, the resort manager was welcoming guests to a talk.
1:36David Aaronovitch:Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I hope everybody's fine.
1:40Christopher Harborne:On longevity and anti-aging medicine. Today, we have the pleasure to have the two very distinctive, exceptional people who embody this vision. The manager introduces two men on the stage. The first, a Thai doctor with impeccable credentials.
2:04Christopher Harborne:And then, a white guy in khakis and a pale blue shirt. Slim, about 60, kind of greying, whitening beard.
2:15David Aaronovitch:Equally passionate about holistic wellness is our Kamalai owner, Kun Chakrit. He's a regular at these talks and sometimes he talks about his own life experiences, even once like a brush with mortality. And I had a heart attack maybe 12, 13 years ago, 49 years old, which really is much too young. Any heart attack at any age shouldn't happen. Chakrit speaks with this lovely kind of soothing voice. You could listen to it all day. Very measured, very precise and calm.
2:47Christopher Harborne:But I was eating and drinking, you know, chopped up milk, cookies to give me energy during the day to work to work 18 hours per day, day after day after day.
2:58David Aaronovitch:And he's referred to as Chakrit. That's his name. But he also has another name, which is Chris. Chris Harbourn. and Chris Harbourn has been living in Thailand for a long time he took Thai citizenship in 2011 and he is the owner of the Karmalaya Wellness Sanctuary and all its plush and expensive beachside villas and Chris Harbourn is also fantastically rich he could be one of the richest people alive
3:32Christopher Harborne:He is also, by far and away, the biggest donor to Nigel Farage, stumping up two-thirds of Reform UK's entire funding, helping Farage get ever closer to Downing Street and changing the entire British political landscape while he's at it.
3:50Christopher Harborne:From The Guardian, I'm Helen Pitt. Today in Focus. Who is Chris Harbourn? and why is he donating so much money to Nigel Farage?
4:04Christopher Harborne:Tom Burgess, nice to see you again. Welcome back.
4:06David Aaronovitch:Yeah, it's really nice to be back.
4:07Christopher Harborne:So you've spent a lot of time recently looking into this guy, Chris Harbourn.
4:11David Aaronovitch:Yes.
4:12Christopher Harborne:I had never heard of him. Yes, that's one of his names. Yeah, until I read your magisterial magazine piece for The Guardian. How did he first come on your radar?
4:21David Aaronovitch:well last year we did a story that we called the boris files we got a load of documents about boris johnson and what he's done since leaving office and i was making money and in there were some a couple of documents about this guy chris harbourn who rang a bell for me as you know a donor one of the bigger political donors so we got into his relationship with johnson but then also since then i've got into the much bigger relationship with nigel farage and I've just been going deeper and deeper and deeper down various rabbit holes.
4:49Christopher Harborne:And at this point in time, how important a political donor is he for Nigel Farage and the Reform Party?
4:55David Aaronovitch:He's massively important. I think we can safely say that Reform, Nigel Farage's political project, Reform Now, the Brexit Party as it was, is uniquely dependent on this mega donor, Chris Harbourn. About two thirds of the donations that have come in to fund Farage's party have been from this one guy, Chris Harbour.
5:19Christopher Harborne:And overall, how much has he given to Farage's various political parties?
5:23David Aaronovitch:£22 million.
5:24Christopher Harborne:OK,£22 million.
5:26David Aaronovitch:In the UK, that's huge.
5:27Christopher Harborne:And let's go back a bit. Where is he from and what was his upbringing like?
5:32David Aaronovitch:So there's Christopher Charles Sheriff Harbour, born 1962 in Mossborough. It's near the Peak District. He's the son of a Lloyd's name, like someone who's... Like an insurance broker. An insurance investor, kind of, called Edgar. And it's a very sort of English world. Edgar has an ancestor who's RC Sheriff, who wrote Dam Busters.
5:56David Aaronovitch:Kind of jingoistic wartime story with a theme tune that everybody knows. And then in his mother, Hamon's mother, Joan, from a well-off background herself. And then you've got Chris growing up middle of three kids and a very privileged young life. He goes to Westminster private school and then he follows his dad to Cambridge. And also like his daddy rose for his college. And then he's off into kind of really an elite world. So like McKinsey, this management consultancy that just has contracts from and contacts in elites all over the world. And then he's into the sort of corporate scene, Pepsi and stuff like that.
6:35David Aaronovitch:and then he starts to go to Thailand.
6:41Christopher Harborne:And so he goes there in the 90s and what has drawn him to Thailand?
6:46David Aaronovitch:So he turns up in the 90s to do market research stuff trying to work out what stocks will go up and what stocks will go down and whose debt's good and bad and that's just when this massive financial crisis starts in Asia. Businesses are going bust, currencies are collapsing but with all these crises, you know, if you're clever and everyone who speaks to me about Harbour says he's a very, very clever guy. He could pick his way through this and he could make large amounts of money from this crisis by seeing which companies were going bust and which were going to be all right and that kind of thing.
7:20Christopher Harborne:Okay, so he's made a lot of money in finance and then after the Asian financial crash in 1997, he gets really rich. And then he turns his attention back to his home country and starts donating to the Tory party. Is that right?
7:34David Aaronovitch:Yeah. So those donations begin in 2001. And over the next nearly two decades, he gives about£200 ,000 to the Conservatives in dribs and drabs. He seems to be sort of between Thailand and Britain then. And that's when the political nations start to the Conservatives. And by 2011, we know that he's got Thai citizenship on his Thai name. and his main base, as far as we can tell now, is Bangkok.
8:03Christopher Harborne:And why did he adopt a Thai name?
8:05David Aaronovitch:Right, well, he says it's something you're obliged to do when you take citizenship.
8:09Christopher Harborne:Oh, OK.
8:10David Aaronovitch:And he picked Chakrit Sakankrit, which means Chakrit has a sort of Sanskrit root and it means something like he who is awake or the watchful one.
8:22Christopher Harborne:And is he a political guy? He's the kind of person who turns up at Tory party conference, who likes to go to these big dinners in the city. Is that his vibe?
8:29David Aaronovitch:Well, this is, I think, one of the most fascinating things about Chris Harbourn is that honestly, we don't know. There's plenty of donors, big donors, who will never stop going on about their political donations. But Harbourn's not like that. There's a legal filing he's made in the defamation claim in the States against the Wall Street Journal there, which wrote a story about him. And it actually gives this sort of fascinating account, and really the only account I've seen him give of himself. And one of the points it makes is that he's intensely private. That's how his lawyers describe it. It says he doesn't proselytise his views.
9:07David Aaronovitch:He doesn't have social media. He doesn't give interviews. He refused to give one to me. And so there is very limited amount to see on him.
Read the full transcript
9:20Christopher Harborne:So you say that he made a lot of money out of the Asian financial crisis. How do you go from that sort of mid-level wealth to stratospheric levels of wealth?
9:31David Aaronovitch:So, yeah, I think he had probably millions by the end of the Asian financial crisis. So the turn of the millennium, around the time his political days start. So that's when he sets out on his own. So he has this head fund and he starts investing in all sorts of things. And he sets up a company to do jet fuel. He trades in jet fuel and in private jets. That's lucrative. I guess that makes him a fair old wodge more. But what makes him a very, very rich man, among the richest, is cryptocurrency. So our big topic today is Bitcoin. Call this a cryptocurrency. Well, it's really, really clever. So during that crisis, 2008, when everyone was absolutely appalled with the banks, good reason.
10:21David Aaronovitch:This guy, this coder, Satoshi Nakamoto, comes up with this thing, a digital currency.
10:26Christopher Harborne:Now, a lot of you are probably wondering, what really is a Bitcoin?
10:30David Aaronovitch:Bitcoin, a way to move money around without banks.
10:32Christopher Harborne:For anyone who's ever suffered the incompetence of a bank or bristled at fees involved in spending money, the promise of Bitcoin is a kind of holy grail.
10:41David Aaronovitch:And this is a niche thing for a while, but Harbourn is one of the early people to understand this. He's had a longstanding interest in tech and new technologies. And what he does is he gets in early on Bitcoin. Bitcoin initially is not worth very much. But within two or three years, Bitcoin is worth a thousand times what it was initially.
10:59Christopher Harborne:Bitcoins are booming. The price of one unit of the digital currency jumped during the past few weeks from about$40 to nearly$150.
11:08David Aaronovitch:And then there's his other cryptocurrency, and it's based on this platform called Ethereum.
11:12Christopher Harborne:There's a whole new world in addition to Bitcoin. I'm here with Vitalik from Ethereum, and I'm Roman Dele.
11:17David Aaronovitch:And he buys massively. And that's what makes him what they call a whale, like a mega trader.
11:26Christopher Harborne:OK, and then what does he do next?
11:28David Aaronovitch:Right. So he's been playing the markets. He's been trading cryptocurrencies and making an enormous whack of money. We don't know how much. I mean, plausibly billions. held in these cryptocurrencies. But then he gets a chance to move from being a kind of crypto trader to have a stake in a crypto exchange, but more importantly, have a stake in the company called Tether. What Tether is, is it issues a different kind of thing, a stable coin. So not like Bitcoin going up and down all the time in value. One Tether stable coin is worth$1. The company Tether is arguably the most profitable company per employee ever.
12:06David Aaronovitch:And pretty much four people own almost all of the shares in it. And one of them is Chris Harbour.
12:16Christopher Harborne:So he's fabulously wealthy, fabulously secretive.
12:20David Aaronovitch:You're properly, properly off the charts, Rich.
12:22Christopher Harborne:Why does he start deciding to funnel what for him is actually a tiny, tiny proportion of his wealth into British political parties when he doesn't even live in the UK anymore? and what's his interest in Farage?
12:34David Aaronovitch:So this is the fascination with Chris Harbourn is that we have to really try and piece this together by his actions. So we've got sort of nearly 20 years of Conservative donations, a few grand here, a few grand there. And then early 2019... I thought, I know what I'm going to do. I'm going to set up a party. I'm going to call it the Brexit Party. The Brexit Party is up and running. And you are here today at the birth, at the launch of a new force in British politics. Welcome to the Brexit Party. Now Nigel Farage is riding back into the political scene saying, Brexit is being betrayed, Theresa May is going to sell us out, and I'm putting together a new party, we're going to stand for European elections.
13:19David Aaronovitch:And initially it's absolutely all over the place. They're taking money on PayPal, they haven't really got any big donors. And on the scene arrives Chris Harbour and his sister Catherine.
13:29Christopher Harborne:Did you know that scientists have started using politicians instead of rats in their experiments?
13:39David Aaronovitch:Her sister's a Tory councillor in Richmond. She's defecting to stand as a candidate for the Brexit party in these crucial European elections. I was so angry.
13:50Christopher Harborne:It was great that somebody suggested that I go and see Nigel and talk about the Brexit party. And then literally a month later, here I am. I can't believe it.
14:00David Aaronovitch:And her brother arrives too. By early 2019, Chris Harbourn is on the scene and he gives 200 grand. So the equivalent of all that money he's given to the Conservative Party over 20 years, whack, in one go, in it goes to Farage. Now, 200 grand may not be that huge to start with, but along with a couple of other donors, actually, that is a fair old whack. and it gives the party credibility and it helps them campaign in those European elections. This is May 2019.
14:31Christopher Harborne:Yeah, and they did rather well, didn't they?
14:33David Aaronovitch:They win it. Who won the elections yesterday? The Brexit Party! They are 32 % of the vote. Do you remember all that stuff? Brexit means Brexit. We're taking back control of our laws, our money and all. And miles ahead of the Tories, loads of seats in the European Parliament where they're a kind of wrecking force. And it's basically what does for Theresa May.
14:57Christopher Harborne:It is and will always remain a matter of deep regret to me that I have not been able to deliver Brexit. It will be for my successor to seek a way forward that honours the result of the referendum.
15:11David Aaronovitch:So she hasn't been able to get a Brexit deal done. The Brexit party is terrifying the Tories because they've done so well in these European elections. May resigns.
15:19Christopher Harborne:I do so with no ill will. but with enormous and enduring gratitude to have had the opportunity to serve the country I love.
15:30David Aaronovitch:And we're heading towards Boris. Deliver Brexit, unite the country and defeat Jeremy Corbyn. Now Boris calls his election, right? That snap election, like get Brexit done election. Yeah, end of 2019. Yeah. We've got to the stage where we have no choice because our parliament is paralysed. It's been stuck in a rut for three and a half years. And I'm afraid our MPs are just refusing time and again to deliver Brexit and honour the mandate of the people. And remember, this is the time, if you can remember this, where both Leavers and Remainers still thought they could kind of win the day. You know, there was campaigns for a second referendum.
16:11Christopher Harborne:Yeah, we hadn't yet left.
16:12David Aaronovitch:We hadn't left the EU. And it seemed like all sorts of outcomes were possible. A huge time. And that's when Harbourn's money starts to have a real impact, I think. He starts to give millions.
16:32Christopher Harborne:Okay, and you've spoken to people who were close to Farage and who were there in 2019. What did they tell you about the level of Harbourn's involvement?
16:41David Aaronovitch:They called up Gawain Towler, right? He was very much around.
16:44Christopher Harborne:Gawain Towler, right, yes, I know this guy, yeah.
16:46David Aaronovitch:he was Farage's media guy for a long time his kind of communications chief
16:52Christopher Harborne:yeah dresses like an English country gent head to toe in tweed doesn't he always smoking a fag
16:56David Aaronovitch:yes I think he might be an English country gent and he he recalls this time he was right in the thick of it at that time and he recalls Harbourn turning up and he buys a fridge because there's no fridge there's campaign air quarters and they need to have gin and tonics so Harbourn arranges that I think he might also have provided a coffee machine.
17:18Christopher Harborne:Okay, so he's in the UK at the moment. He's in the UK.
17:20David Aaronovitch:So we think, we don't know quite when the status starts or finishes, but my understanding is that he's a non-dom. So there's a tax status you can have if you're rich, where you can spend a certain number of days in the UK, but you can keep some of your wealth kind of out of the tax man's hands, essentially. So he's coming and going from the UK. And Gwaine would say, you know, he believed in Brexit. I mean, if we're judging him by his actions, he clearly does seem to want Brexit done, right? He puts an enormous amount of money in during that year of that crucial campaign. So when I was asking about why is Harbourn there?
17:52David Aaronovitch:And so Gawain says he was excited by it. He was interested in it. He believed in the basic premise that Britain should govern itself. And then he says, I never heard him say, and I want you to have this policy. You've got to remember that the Brexit Party only had one policy, and that was to have Brexit.
18:08Christopher Harborne:Okay. So we can certainly say that Chris Harbourn wanted to get Brexit done.
18:12David Aaronovitch:I think that's a fair assumption. but I don't think that's the whole picture either.
18:16Christopher Harborne:No, and the weird thing I thought from reading your piece is that the Brexit Party wasn't the only party that he was donating to in those Boris Johnson years, right?
18:26David Aaronovitch:Right, and this is where I think we start to scrutinise the relationship between these donations and the recipients' approach to cryptocurrency. So yeah, 2019, huge sums into the Brexit Party.
18:40Christopher Harborne:After the 2019 general election.
18:42David Aaronovitch:After the 2019 general election has taken place, and then all donations stop for a while from Harbon.
18:50Christopher Harborne:It's COVID, I guess, isn't it? We're into COVID then, yeah.
18:55David Aaronovitch:And Farage starts to become very vocal in support for cryptocurrency. Now, this big pile of legal letters I've got here from various highly reputable British law firms, they all say there is no connection between the donations that Harbourn gives. Harbourn says this and the political recipient says this. No connection between donations on the one hand and crypto policy on the other. Nonetheless, even if there is no quid pro quo, you can see that the people who receive this money from Harbourn start to adopt very pro-crypto positions. So Farage heading into the, during the pandemic, start to come out and say this is kind of the ultimate lockdown investment.
19:40David Aaronovitch:From the poorest to the richest in Milan, one of the conversations that's going on is about cryptocurrency. The reason is all too obvious. It's that governments are, through this pandemic, creating vast amounts of funny money, debasing currencies and people are scared about what this means. He starts to latch on to this rhetoric about crypto being freedom and liberty and big governments locking us up in our houses and so on. And then Farage will later become specifically a very vocal supporter of Tether itself. Tether is a stablecoin. Stablecoins are the way which money goes from conventional currencies through into cryptocurrencies and back again.
20:22David Aaronovitch:Tether is about to be valued as a$500 billion company. You know, stablecoins, crypto, this world is enormous. and I've been urging for years that London should embrace it. But before that happens, you've got Boris in power and you've got money going from Harbourn to the Conservatives once again and they say they want to make UK a sort of crypto hub. So there is a correlation between people who get Harbourn's money and being very pro-crypto. There are other reasons to support crypto. It has some very positive uses. There are lots of people who make a good case that crypto is a good thing in some ways.
21:03David Aaronovitch:But it's definitely the case that the people who've got Harbourn's money become pro-crypto.
21:07Christopher Harborne:And in your magazine piece, there are some previously unpublished pictures of Farage attending Chris Harbourn's 60th birthday party back in December 2022. Is that right? When Farage had supposedly taken a step away from frontline politics and the party is at the Thai Wellness Resort that Harbourn owns, where he prefers to be known as Chakrit and not Chris. And I've got to say, it's pretty much the last place on earth I would expect an unrepentant drinker and smoker to turn up.
21:36David Aaronovitch:So a source tells me that they did witness Farage and co sitting down to a few bottles. Maybe this was kind of like wellness wine. Right. Or maybe it was like stronger stuff. I'm not really sure.
21:48Christopher Harborne:How has Farage explained his presence at this birthday party?
21:52David Aaronovitch:He says it's just a party.
21:53Christopher Harborne:Yeah.
21:53David Aaronovitch:He says it's just a party. Well, actually, he doesn't say anything. We've got a legal letter that comes from an email address called legal at reform.
21:59Christopher Harborne:OK.
22:00David Aaronovitch:Let me grab it. I've got a thickening pile of legal letters. Here's the reform one. So it's basically, yeah, this is just a party. Don't read too much into it. What it certainly isn't is some sort of like political strategy gathering where they're plotting Farage's takeover of the UK. They gather, they go to a birthday. 200 people are there. It's just a birthday party. No political discussions of the nature implied took place and to suggest otherwise is a complete fabrication.
22:29Christopher Harborne:Right. OK. But it is a bit hard to believe, isn't it, that Farage would travel halfway around the world to meet a political donor and that they wouldn't talk politics at all. I'll tell you what's also interesting about this, about the letter that comes back.
22:42David Aaronovitch:It says this is not a political meeting. Nigel Farage is not even contemplating a return to politics then. There's no way this could be about Farage's kind of designs to be prime minister because there aren't any. I'm not sure that's entirely the full picture, you know. Just before this trip to Thailand, Farage has written in the Daily Telegraph, just sort of mentioning offhand. By the way, the polling suggests that a Nigel Farage-led party could do very well. And he ends it by saying, basically, I haven't given my life to Brexit to sit on the sidelines while it's betrayed. So whether or not he has political discussions or discussions about donations in Thailand with Chris Harbour, And he's clearly starting at this point to contemplate this big return.
23:23Christopher Harborne:Yeah, OK. And then so 18 months after the 60th birthday in Thailand, Rishi Sunak stands on the steps at Downing Street in the rain, announces a general election. And Farage decides very late in the day, doesn't he? I'm coming back. And they get five seats in Parliament. Did Harbourn fund that success?
23:40David Aaronovitch:No. So he doesn't give any money to anybody. There's no donations to the Conservatives. There's no donations to Reform UK. So Farage wins his seat. Yeah, on the 8th attempt. Yeah, 8th time. He hangs around for the King's speech and then he's immediately off again to see Donald Trump, his big pal who has just survived an assassin's bullet that grazed his ear. And he's also about to accept the Republican nomination for his sort of comeback presidential campaign. Farage flies out there. And when Farage declares in his register of MPs interests, who paid for that, who paid the cost of flying him in an aid to America for that trip,£32 ,000, it's Chris Harbourn.
24:18Christopher Harborne:Okay.
24:18David Aaronovitch:And there he is back on the scene. Okay, a few thousand pounds to start with, but it's going to get much, much bigger. Suddenly, in August last year, August 2025, nine million pounds. So this is the biggest single donation by a living donor to a British political party ever. Seismic. And Chris Harbourn is opening the floodgates of political finance. Three million more. There's been money to fly Farage towards, anyway, the Chagos Islands.
24:49Christopher Harborne:The British government are replying pressure on the president and the government of the Maldives
24:54David Aaronovitch:to do everything within their power to stop me getting on that boat and going to the Chagos Islands. Interesting sort of intervention in geopolitics there. Harbourn is funding that. So now Harbourn really is established as this kind of mega donor.
25:16Christopher Harborne:Coming up, what is Chris Harbourn getting in return for all of these donations?
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26:07Christopher Harborne:you've already touched on this the sort of mystery of what he's getting out of all of this but i know you have spoken to people who know him and understand a little bit about what makes him tick what do they think he gets out of all of this so i spoke to a guy called mark velicott he's
26:24David Aaronovitch:going to be a reform candidate in these local elections very shortly and he was also for a long time close friend of Catherine Harbourn and Mark Velocott describes Harbourn as a level guy very gentle guy and someone who wants to be king of crypto the king of crypto he says when he looks at Harbourn participating in UK politics giving money involved in UK politics he he sees that But that, he thinks, is with an eye, sure, to a political agenda, but also to advancing the crypto cause, right? How crypto is going to be treated in the UK and how crypto is going to be treated globally.
27:08Christopher Harborne:Right. And I know that Harbourn denies that this is what motivates his donations. So what do you think is going on here?
27:15David Aaronovitch:I think what's happening with crypto is an enormous war between the bros, essentially, the billionaires and the people who run cryptocurrency and nation states and law enforcement agencies and so on. And especially under Joe Biden, there was this sense of like, right, we need to get a grip on this stuff because it's a huge engine of money laundering. I mean, crypto again and again and again, it's found to be used for sanctions evasion. The Russian war machine makes use of crypto, specifically Tether's tokens. I mean, again and again, North Korean hackers, the Iranian regime. This is the examples I'm giving us specifically Tether's stable coin.
27:59David Aaronovitch:And so there is this huge battle to try to control what is at least partially an enormous new avenue for dirty money to move around the world incognito. Now, obviously, crypto has all sorts of perfectly legitimate uses as to the stablecoin. But this is the big battle. Now, in the US, Trump is a big crypto convert. His family is hugely into crypto and they're making loads of money out of it.
28:25Christopher Harborne:But I want to thank you all for being here. This is really a big day this afternoon. we take a giant step to cement the American dominance of global finance and crypto technology as we sign the Landmark Genius Act.
28:40David Aaronovitch:The UK, it's in the balance, I would say.
28:42Christopher Harborne:Yeah, OK.
28:43David Aaronovitch:The UK is one of the few places with the sort of big law enforcement system that could actually try to crack down on these illicit uses of crypto. Indeed, there are investigations going on that involve the illicit use of specifically Tether crypto. Is the UK going to try and crack down on crypto or is it going to embrace it the way Trump has done it? And Farage's view is very much we embrace it.
29:04Christopher Harborne:And what's Chris Harbourn said when you've gone to him with what you found in your reporting? So let me get the stack of legal letters.
29:11David Aaronovitch:So I'm getting the one from Shillings, one of the foremost reputation management law firms. They wrote a letter when I wrote to Harbourn saying, can we have an interview? They've said, first of all, they didn't want to give me an interview. They said they wouldn't reward my previous coverage, which I think they clearly considered to have been critical with an interview. But they do say this. So this is shillings on behalf of Chris Harbourn. Our client has not sought to influence, nor has he influenced any politician to support cryptocurrencies or any other of his business interests. And then there's this.
29:46David Aaronovitch:The prime ministers and senior politicians to whom you refer, so the ones like Farage who've received donations, are fully capable of making their own informed decisions on matters such as cryptocurrencies.
29:58Christopher Harborne:And what about Farage himself? What did he say when you went to him?
30:02David Aaronovitch:So interestingly, the legal letter we got from Reform, I mean, it says we've got all sorts of things wrong. And I think the crucial point in this is this one. no donor including Mr Harbourn has sought or been offered any form of influence, benefit or preferential treatment in connection with donations. So we've got the legal letter, right? Yeah. But we've also got what Faraz himself has said when he was asked by a reporter about these donations, these massive donations from Harbourn. I can't do, I won't try and do it. Don't do his accent. Impressive, no. Does he want anything from me? No. Absolutely nothing in return at all.
30:43David Aaronovitch:He just happens to think that we've not made the most of Brexit and that we're not getting into the 21st century technologies.
30:51Christopher Harborne:And, you know, listening to all of this, it does strike me as being a bit rum that a guy who's living in Thailand is allowed to give such huge donations to British political parties when he's not paying most of his tax here.
31:05David Aaronovitch:Well, Harbourn's massive donations have been alarming people in Labour and also people who were just worried about the influence of big money on democratic politics in the UK.
31:20Christopher Harborne:Yeah, going in the American direction.
31:21David Aaronovitch:Right. And what we had very recently is an announcement from Keir Starmer's government that there's going to be this cap. There's going to be a limit of£100 ,000 on what you can donate if you're an otherwise eligible donor, but you live abroad. Probably it boils down to the same question that all these big donors based abroad face, which is if you want to give big, big money, the kind of money that can change the course of a country, you might have to be prepared to live in it.
31:57Christopher Harborne:And you've told us already that somebody who knows Harbourn says that he aspires to become the king of crypto. Yeah, so he seems to be operating primarily out of self-interest rather than ingrained political ideology, allegiance to one political party or the other. And I just wondered, do you think this could all end in tears for Nigel Farage?
32:17David Aaronovitch:I think that's so fascinating. You know, is he operating out of self-interest? Is he trying to enlighten us all to the wisdom of cryptocurrency that will set us free? Is it about his own bank balance? Is it about an ideology? We don't know. Where does it end with Farage? Again, we don't know that. He's shown that he's willing to move, to switch his donations between different political parties. I think what's clear is that he's got a vast amount of wealth.
32:46Christopher Harborne:And lastly, Tom, you said that around two thirds of reforms donations have come from Harbourn. How risky is that for Farage to rely so heavily on one mega donor?
32:56David Aaronovitch:I think the risks are actually for us. What the people who really study this stuff I think are most concerned about is that this switch in the UK to megadonors and to the increasing influence of a small number of very, very rich people on politics, that doesn't seem the way to keep the oxygen flowing through democracy at what is a very difficult time for democracies anyway. I think the risks here are not so much about the fate of one politician as to the fate of the democratic system as a whole.
33:24Christopher Harborne:Tom always a pleasure thanks for coming in
33:27David Aaronovitch:Yeah likewise cheers That was Tom Burgess you can read his magazine piece
33:37Christopher Harborne:about Chris Harbourn at theguardian.com and that is all for today this episode was produced by Alex Atak and presented by me Helen Pidd sound design was by Rudy Zagadlow the executive producer was Khmer Khalili we will be back in your feeds this afternoon with the latest
33:58David Aaronovitch:This is The Guardian.
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