Trump: Is Greenland next? – The Latest

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:12It's kind of forced itself onto the agenda, really, after Trump's kind of smash-and-grab raid on Nicolas Maduro. We need Greenland from a national security situation. The European Union needs us to have it, and they know that. The rather sad thing is that actually Denmark has been one of the US's most loyal allies since forever. Donald Trump has his sights set back on Greenland. And in light of Venezuela, it's hitting different for European leaders. From The Guardian's Today in Focus, this is The Latest with me, Lucy Hoth.

0:52I'm joined by John Henley, who is Europe correspondent at The Guardian from a very snowy Paris. Thanks so much for being with us, John. It's lovely to see you. So when Donald Trump first started talking about Greenland at the start of his presidency, it was sort of laughed off by European leaders, wasn't it? But they are meeting in Paris today and there is a sense that they are going to have to start taking this a lot more seriously. Yes, absolutely. I mean, Greenland wasn't supposed to be on the meeting in Paris today. that's mainly to deal with kind of post ceasefire security arrangements in Ukraine if things ever get that far but it's kind of forced itself onto the agenda really as you say particularly obviously after you know Trump's kind of smash and grab raid on the regime of Nicolas Maduro at the weekend and the fact that he has been talking even more insistently since then about what he terms sort of the absolute need for the US to take control of Greenland.

1:53And yeah, I mean, European leaders are clearly having to take it a lot more seriously. Yeah, because you've got these comments from Trump himself saying that Greenland is a country he wants very badly. But then you have others in his White House, including the very influential White House staffer Stephen Miller, who has been openly questioning Denmark's right to control Greenland, which is a semi-autonomous Danish territory. And indeed, Stephen Miller's wife posted a picture on social media of a map of Greenland in the colour of the American flags, along with the words soon. So that all feels very Trumpy.

2:28But as you say, it's demanding a bit more of a robust response from EU leaders, isn't it, in light of what's happened in Venezuela. And indeed, in the last few minutes, just before we started our conversation, there's been a statement from EU leaders. Yes, there's been quite a tough statement from the leaders of France and Germany, Italy, Spain, Denmark, of course, and the UK and Poland, saying that or pointing out, underlining that the Arctic security is very much a collective responsibility. And it's something that the Europeans and the Americans and NATO have to tackle jointly. It has still it's it's shied clear of of literally criticizing Trump's or American ambitions, which obviously the Danish prime minister, Meta Fredrickson, hasn't.

3:17And nor has the prime minister of Greenland. They've both said in recent days that, you know, really enough is enough. And it's completely wrong of the US to make these kind of territorial claims about Greenland. I mean, I think everybody understands that Greenland obviously is strategically very, very important. You know, it kind of sits midway between sort of the ballistic missile flight between Moscow and Washington, basically. It also has vast mineral reserves, which are extremely valuable. But the kind of very curious thing about all this really, and the rather sad thing, is that actually Denmark has been one of the US's most loyal allies since forever, really.

4:04I think more Danish troops have died in various US-led interventions around the world, such as Afghanistan, per head of the population than have American soldiers. So nobody can really question Denmark's loyalty to the to the transatlantic alliance, to NATO and its friendship with the US. And there is already a very big American military base on Greenland. And I think if, you know, a kind of alternative US administration had tackled this differently and said, look, there are real security concerns in the Arctic. There are Russian and Chinese ships, you know, in the area. Other countries, you know, clearly have other superpowers clearly have ambitions in this area.

4:49And what can we do to kind of, you know, bolster security there collectively? You know, the outcome might have been very different. Yeah, well, it's just one of the few ways that we're living in a very brave new world, John, aren't we? Or a world that closely resembles the old world. But certainly it's a change from the post-war alliance that we've been used to. So, I mean, you touched on why Trump might be interested in Greenland, which, as you say, he has been saying this is about security. It's about the US's security interest, given where it is near Eurasia, near North America and near the Arctic.

5:26But also it's rare earth minerals, which are critical to the tech sector. I mean, what has happened in Venezuela does resemble that somewhat, doesn't it? in the sense that there is these concerns about drug trafficking, but there is also a clear interest in oil that the Trump administration has been fairly plain speaking about. And that is what is concerning for Europe during these meetings this week. Yes, I mean, that's kind of what is kind of floating over all of these moves, really, is that, you know, I mean, a lot has been researched and written now about the way that the Trump family and the Trump kind of close circle are enriching themselves through Donald Trump's presidency.

6:10And I think, you know, clearly there are concerns that underlying these kind of territorial grabs or claims, you know, that there may well be kind of commercial interests and people behind Donald Trump who are looking to make a great deal of money out of it. You know, what's very difficult in this is that, you know, Europe is in is really in a bind over this attack and capture sort of exfiltration of Maduro and his wife over the weekend and over the kind of noises that are being made about Greenland. And it's really there's a really, you know, very clear dilemma for the bloc and for individual leaders with regard to this, you know, which which is that, you know, they still desperately need U.S.

6:57support in it for Ukraine. and you know at the end of last year Zelensky said you know that there were 90 % near to some kind of ceasefire deal and EU leaders are absolutely desperate not to see that derailed so they don't want to criticise any of these Trump actions or any of his words but if they fail to criticise and if they fail to condemn what in Venezuela is a very clear manifest gross violation of international law. If they fail to condemn that, then they basically undermine the grounds on which they're opposing Russia's invasion of Ukraine. So it's really, it's a dilemma that sets their kind of legal and moral principles against their strategic needs.

7:48And it's one that they are finding extremely difficult to navigate. Yeah, I mean, European leaders, as you said, a meeting to talk about Ukraine today. Zelensky is there. We just had pictures of him talking to French President Emmanuel Macron. But Greenland is barely on the agenda. I mean, it's striking that we've had a relatively strong statement from EU leaders in advance of these talks. But the statement is in stark contrast with that of the Danish Prime Minister, Mette Friedrichsen, which is saying, you know, a US attack on Greenland would mean the end of NATO and effectively the end of post-war security in Europe.

8:22That is strong and extraordinary language that is in very stark contrast to what we've been hearing from other European leaders, which is much more mild or you could say lily-libered. Yes, I mean, they're really kind of walking a tightrope. You know, it was very striking straight after the Venezuela operation that leaders like Emmanuel Macron in France and Friedrich Merz in Germany, you know, actually made in their initial statements that they've since kind of slightly corrected core so that a bit, at least Macron has. But in their initial statements, they actually made no mention of international law at all.

9:01The only real exception was Sanchez, the prime minister of Spain, who said sort of straight out that, you know, this is in breach of international law and Spain condemns it. But many European leaders and the EU, you know, itself kind of contented themselves with sort of a cop out, which is really saying, you know, we're following the situation very closely. And of course, we support Keir Starmer as well. Of course, we support and want to uphold international law. But none of them actually condemned Washington for violating international law. And that really reflects the dilemma that they're in, the bind that they're in, that they have to somehow marry, you know, standing up for the rules based international order and liberal democracy and multilateralism and international law that they have to somehow kind of combine standing up for that with at the same time not going overboard in criticizing a long term ally whose support they still desperately need.

10:06need to help defend Ukraine. Yeah, it's a very uncomfortable and awkward predicament to be in. John, thank you so much. Pleasure.

10:18That's it for today. Thanks for listening to this episode of The Latest. The new evening edition of Today in Focus will be with you every weekday evening with what you need to know about the story everyone's talking about in around 10 minutes. Today in Focus will be back with you as usual tomorrow morning, and we'll be back with you tomorrow night. This episode was presented by me, Lucy Hoth. The producer was Bryony Moore. The lead producer was Zoe Hedge.

10:42This is The Guardian.