Why Ireland is giving a basic income to artists

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:07Today, why Ireland is paying artists a basic income, with no strings attached.

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0:53My name's Lewis Young. I'm 27 years old and based in Dublin and I'm a musician. Ever since he left university with a music degree, Lewis has been trying to make a living from his passion. I'm primarily a session musician, so I play for artists and bands, but I also do composition work and musical direction work. That music that you're listening to in the background is one of his pieces. I play a number of instruments, so primarily keyboard and saxophone and guitar. But I grew up playing classical violin and I'm on a gig tomorrow where I'm playing lots of traditional art whistle.

1:42It's not always a glamorous life but he's always been willing to do whatever it takes to keep making music I do a lot of weddings I do a lot of corporate gigs things that aren't the most artistically fulfilling but they do keep me in my house

2:02and then in 2022 the irish government threw him a lifeline when he was one of 2 000 irish artists selected for a special pilot scheme for three years he received 325 euros every week from the state to do with as he pleased suddenly he didn't have to play those weddings anymore or the soul zapping corporate gigs yeah i actually was doing the maths before this call and it's about 50 gigs a year. So it's about 50 extra days of work a year that I got back to practice or to experiment on things, to actually make art, to write songs, to compose. Wow, that's a lot. It's really a lot, isn't it? I mean, bad news for the couples of Ireland who wanted you to play your whistle at their wedding.

2:46I'd say they're both delighted.

2:52For Lewis, the regular income changed everything. In hindsight, it has changed my life in a huge way. It has been a bit of a fast track for me, you know, to have three years of not worrying so much about where am I going to get the money to pay for groceries. The Irish government says the pilot was such a roaring success that it's making the basic income for the arts a permanent thing. It seems to have borne out what we all knew, that this was a really innovative and wonderful scheme and has delivered... Irish artists are already taking the world by storm, with an actress from County Kerry winning an Oscar.

3:30And the Oscar goes to... Jessie Butler. And Irish musicians riding high.

3:41So is this actually a bargain way for Ireland to punch even further above its weight on the global stage?

3:55From The Guardian, I'm Helen Pitt. Today in Focus, why Ireland is banking on its artists.

4:08Rory Carroll, welcome back to Today in Focus. It's very nice to see you. Hey Helen, thanks for having me back. So you are, of course, The Guardian's Ireland correspondent and you've been following the story about the new financial help that is on offer for artists in Ireland. Can you just start by outlining what exactly this scheme is and how it came about. Artists who qualify for the scheme are given 325 euros, that's basically 280 pounds, by the government for three years. And for this, they don't need to do anything different. It's effectively a subsidy to help them focus on their art because most of them are juggling other jobs, sometimes multiple jobs.

4:48And so this is the state saying, you know what, you deserve some help. So the idea is that this will facilitate your art, make your life easier, and that wider society will benefit from this. What were the findings of that pilot scheme that have encouraged the government to actually make it a permanent thing? Well, the key takeaway was that post-benefit analysis said that for every euro that the Irish state invested or spent on this, society gained 1 euro 39 cents in return. Now this being partly financial, but also factoring in the sense of well-being of the artists, their mental health, the fact that they had more money in their pocket to spend in the local economy.

5:27And that also we as society would then be able to benefit from their art, whatever they're producing. So it's a win-win for everybody. The government says, you know, we spend too much time honouring the dead artists and not enough time, you know, and effort, you know, helping living artists. Oh, that's interesting. So enough James Joyce. Yes. And also maybe there's residual guilt, which is that most of our best, most famous artists, they self-deported. They, you know, they went into exile because they did not feel welcome or they simply didn't want to be in that Ireland of, say, 100 years ago.

6:02And so now the government wants to kind of be part of this sense that, no, now we're embracing Irish artists and part of self-identities. Ireland was the island of saints and scholars in the medieval era. Now we're the island of, you know, seamat and kneecap. Yeah. You know, so you could see there's a bit of a parallel with cool Britannia, the whole Blair years of Oasis and so on. So it's been very well received by, you know, the arts community and the government, meantime, are busy patting themselves on the back. And this feels, from my position sitting in London today, quite a radical thing to do.

6:34I'm imagining what Nigel Farage would have to say if the Labour government here dared to bring in something like this. Can you tell me a bit about the government in Ireland, where they sit politically and how this has been received? Yeah, well, the background to this was during the Covid time when the government was throwing money to support local businesses and different sectors to sustain them through this. And the Green Party then in power lobbied very strongly for this. And so the government ran a pilot project. Today, 2000 artists and creative arts workers have been informed that they have been selected to participate in the pilot basic income for the arts programme.

7:09With this scheme, Ireland is showing how we value our arts and artistic practices. Which has now been made permanent. Now, a bit of fiscal context is the Irish government is kind of rolling in cash. Wow, what a position to be in. Yeah, and all hail the tech bros and big pharma, because this is largely thanks to corporate tax revenues and specifically US corporations that pay huge fortunes to the Irish state. So it really is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow for the Irish state for now. So you say that this was originally an idea of the Green Party, but the party that's in power in Ireland at the moment is not green, right?

7:49The current government in Ireland, it's a coalition between Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael. And they're both soft centre-right parties. And it's a very kind of a status quo government, not radical, but they signed off on this. And in this new administration, which is in a sense a sequel to the previous government, have decided to keep it because they felt that it's basically very popular and it's good value for money. Yeah. And it's very interesting to hear that that side of politics is taking the arts so seriously. I just wonder, in Ireland, has there been much opposition to this idea? I mean, I could imagine it being painted by some people as a sort of luxury and nice to have a frippery rather than, you know, a sort of core part of society.

8:30It's been surprisingly uncontroversial so far. And I think partly that's because, you know, it's not a period of austerity. And so there's no cutbacks. And in fact, the government has been ramping up spending across the board for the last few years, to the point that's actually worrying a lot of economists saying this is too much, you know, we need to tighten the belt. But there are some voices who are saying, hang on, we need to look more closely at this, that this is a very clubby thing that's happened. And I'm here I'm paraphrasing between the art sector, the lovies, as they would put it, and a government that's once kind of basked in the glow of approbation from these artists who are getting, you know, money for nothing.

9:06I'm sorry, but like at the end of the day, it's not really up to the state or me as a taxpayer to fund your hobby. And so some people saying, well, there's several problems here. One, fiscally down the line, once you make this permanent, when the worm turns and austerity comes back, as I'm sure it will, what then? Another critique is that there's a fairness issue here that, you know, why should artists get 325 euros per week when the carer's allowance is 260 euros per week the disability allowance is 244 and additionally what about the quality of the art I mean does anyone know I mean what are they producing is it is it any good do people care about it and these for the moment are kind of largely unanswerable questions I mean I guess what makes good art is famously subjective, isn't it?

9:55Are you saying then that in order to apply for this income, you don't have to prove that anybody enjoys your art, that they pay for it, that you've got a career that you could ultimately sustain? That's right. It's selected by a lottery. So currently, the 2 ,000 places that were allocated, I think there were maybe 8 ,000 applicants. It wasn't that they had to submit their work to some committee that was then going to sit there with a clipboard and decide who merits this largesse the most. No, it's just done kind of quite randomly. So you're not having bureaucrats deciding what is good art or not.

10:29But on the downside, though, is there any control element here? Are there people who, you know, are most financially in need or those who actually are really talented and just need a leg up? There's a kind of a blind spot there. You could say that, do they need the help? And I think the short answer is, well, yes, because, I mean, given the housing crisis, which is a severe, severe shortage of affordable housing across Ireland, not just Dublin, and cost of living prices, which everybody knows about. It is extraordinarily tough to be an artist, unless you're the lucky kind of 1 % that you're having TV deals, publishers throwing money at you.

11:05But for the rest, it is very tough to exist and keep your art going.

11:16Hi, I'm Cailin Hogan. I'm a writer and journalist from Dublin and I wrote a book called Republic of Shame about Ireland's religious-run institutions and I'm still working as a freelance writer living in the city. Like Lewis, Kaylin was one of the 2 ,000 artists selected to take part in the pilot. She recently wrote an article about her experience for The Guardian. Tell me, how did you first hear about this scheme that was promising a basic income to artists? I couldn't imagine having that kind of security. I think when I started out as a writer, I used to work in hotels and markets and bars and wherever I could to just make money to support my writing.

11:57Most artists I know, most writers I know, they're forced to sort of live at home or insecure housing situations because they can't afford their own spaces to live, let alone to work, let alone having a workspace. Kayleen had to live at home with her parents to save money on rent while writing her book. Being an artist was just too expensive. And was there ever a point where you came close to giving up being an artist because it was just too hard? Yeah, I think there's definitely been times where it felt like a real struggle and that it might be easier to just get a job in an office or do work that would be more reliable, you know, that would just make life a bit easier.

12:39insecurity financial insecurity is just inherent in the creative sector whether you're doing really well or not it's not really down to individual effort you know most people are struggling to make ends meet some months you get loads of commissions you get loads of projects and and you're good for paying your rent and getting by but other months you don't know what's going to come in the door so we live with that sort of uncertainty and that does create a lot of anxiety Yeah, and getting chosen for the pilot scheme must really have been a weight off your mind. I was given this payment of€325 a week to support my work with no strings attached really.

13:20I could continue my creative work, I could continue any projects I wanted, apply for grants if I wanted. I just had to fill out a survey, I think it was every six months, detailing the hours of work I put into my creative practice. other work I did outside of that also you know expenditure on on living costs but it also asked questions about your mental health your well-being to try and I guess get an idea of artists lives and the challenges they're facing and how they go about their work and how the basic income was affecting that. And what was it like that first month when that 325 euros hit your bank account?

14:05Yeah, it was hard to believe. I think there was also a bit of guilt there, you know, because obviously it was only 2000 people who received it. And so I had many friends who were artists who were not getting this support. I have a small space in an artist studio called The Backloft in the heart of Dublin City. And it was strange to feel that, you know, I might be getting the basic income and artists around me who are part of a community that I really value, that they weren't getting that same support and that that was difficult I think a lot of people didn't speak about it for a while yeah there was a bit of guilt there I think a bit of shame and particularly presumably in a city like Dublin which is incredibly expensive right what's it you know how feasible is it if you're if you're not independently wealthy to be an artist to be a writer to be creative in Dublin well that's the thing I mean the basic income it was a huge support But I mean, it pretty much covered rent that, you know, and maybe a bit of food on top of that.

15:08I was very lucky at the time I was living with friends and I had quite affordable rent for Dublin. But, you know, the housing crisis has only deepened in recent years and rents keep skyrocketing. An artist whose work is precarious, anyone whose work is precarious, is disproportionately affected by that housing crisis. which, you know, I believe is a result of political policy and a lack of political will to ensure homes are affordable. And so it's hard then when we see this Irish government who has overseen deepening inequality in the country and a deepening housing crisis, talking about being global leaders for supporting artists when, you know, artists are disproportionately affected by those policies that fail to ensure that everyone's basic needs are met so the basic income was a huge support that gave us that bit of security to really dedicate ourselves to our creative work but you know you couldn't live on it for the year necessarily and with rent so high with the cost of living so high for everyone you know it was just allowing us to kind of make ends meet and obviously you could work on top of that which was a huge benefit and so it did give people a security that they hadn't had before.

16:31What did you use the money for then? Was it just your rent? Yeah I really took it as time to focus on my writing, being able to experiment more as a writer, not be constantly chasing money, being able to decide which projects you dedicate yourself to, It allowed me that creative freedom to work with other artists, to collaborate. You know, I helped create events, raise money for Palestine, raise money for a local rape crisis centre. And it was really meaningful work that I might not have been able to do because I would have had to take the job that paid the most. What do you make of the scheme being made permanent now?

17:12The way it's being covered, it seems like suddenly artists in Ireland are all going to be supported and all have access to this. But it's a tiny fraction of people doing creative work who will ever get access to this support unless they significantly expand it, which is what the National Campaign for the Arts and what Praxis, the Artists Union have been calling for, is a dramatic expansion of the scheme, given that the government is saying it pays for itself.

17:49Can you tell me, prior to this basic income, what kind of funding have artists and the arts generally received in Ireland? Per capita is far more generous here than Northern Ireland, because artists in Northern Ireland are often lamenting the woe that they're stuck on the wrong side of the border. Whereas the UK has had so much austerity and cutbacks, Ireland proportionally is a lot more generous. But that said, individual artists I meet, I mean, none of them say, oh, it's great. Because, again, the context in Ireland, it's such an expensive country now to live and survive that, you know, there is a sense that this, for some, could be just like a bandaid on a wider wound when to function in Ireland now requires so much money.

18:31When I think about artists, musicians that came of age in the 80s, early 90s, they always talk about how going on the dole was sort of maybe the equivalent of a basic income and that the state at that point was kind of turning a blind eye to the fact that they weren't really applying for jobs. And great art came out of that kind of scene. People who were on the dole, people who were in squats. Was that the case in Ireland as well? Yes. And not to be competitive, but I mean, we were especially depressed and deprived. You know, I mean, Ireland was economically, I wouldn't say basket case, but, you know, it was a very depressed economy in the 1970s, 1980s, which is why a lot of our artists and young people who all emigrated, not just the artists, I mean, everybody, I mean, navvies, bricklayers, and they would go end up in squads in London.

19:17Beyond the familiar home from home reassurance of North London's legendary Irish pubs, thousands of young emigrants face an increasingly rude awakening. And so that tradition of the starving artist in their garret certainly has been part of the Irish story. And I think now this money is available. The government want to be kind of the sugar daddies of this. And they're basking and loving this, you know, this glow from the gratitude from the arts community. Because often, of course, artists are, you know, very critical of those in power. You know, for example, Seamat, some of her songs make stinging rebukes of the Irish state and Irish governments.

19:55nobody that I grew up with basically lives here anymore everyone has had to emigrate nobody can afford to live here everybody's leaving home and everyone who's left behind is left with less and less public services and health care and and so you know for Irish policymakers this though is quite quite lovely because you get to be the good guy at least for a while. And how important do you think the arts are culturally in Ireland? And again, I'm making the comparison with the UK, which if you look at the educational curriculum is still very much bearing the brunt of what the Tories did, Michael Go's reform, which was all about, you know, reading, writing and arithmetic.

20:40It was about STEM subjects, so science and engineering. And the arts were very, very much downgraded under those 14 years of Tory rule. And I wonder how the situation has been in Ireland in terms of valuing an artistic and a cultural education? Ireland really does value the sense of itself as an artistic hub and that's in terms of writers, singers going right back to the bards of old and you know the Irish like to think that this continues and is real it's not just some kind of national mythology you know so self-power to be more mercenary about it is partly what draws tourists. Yeah. And also helps Ireland wriggle its way through kind of foreign policy dilemmas at times that this kind of aura that comes with Irishness, at least so we hope, helps us in a kind of an economic sense and gives us an edge.

21:39Coming up, will other countries follow Ireland's lead?

21:51Scotland has natural beauty in abundance, but beyond the stunning landscapes, it's a fertile ground to build, grow and succeed, filled with people who are ready to push boundaries in the pursuit of breakthrough ideas. That's why today, Scotland is a dynamic hub of opportunity across growth sectors, from clean energy and life sciences to digital technology and space innovation. Scotland, for the head, heart and the spirit. Discover more at theguardian.com forward slash brand Scotland. This message was paid for by Brand Scotland.

22:27And Rory, do you think that this scheme is ambitious enough and broad enough, enough that it will actually change Ireland, both in terms of the cultural landscape at home and how it's viewed abroad? On the first, no. I think it's too limited to have like some kind of great societal impact. 2000 artists is great, but, you know, there's thousands and thousands more. And even for those who are lucky enough to get this money, it's not a complete game changer. They will still need to hustle and do other jobs and other things to survive. I don't think there's going to be some great kind of Medici style kind of renaissance blossoming in Ireland just because of this.

23:05I think the impact will be more limited. but in terms of the impression of Ireland and again for the the government and the states and wider society it's projecting the sense that oh we really do value artists look at what we're doing. It's great PR for them isn't it? It is it is and so it again it feeds into this projection of Irishness and that works for us this this perception we want to continue to nourish that and not let it atrophy through either the cost of living crisis or gentrification you know we're still the land of Beckett and Joyce, except now it's updated for the 21st century. And so it is fair to say, I think, that Irish artists are having a moment.