Should Netflix Start Streaming Music?

0:04Dan Runcie: I'm Dan Runcie. Welcome to Trapital. We got a lot to get into today. First things first, we're going to talk about music on Netflix and whether that's something we should expect to see in the future. And to be clear, I'm not talking about music biopics, music reality competitions, music documentaries, or docu-series. All that is already on the platform. I'm talking about music itself, the 100 million songs that are currently on your streaming service of choice. Could we expect to see that on Netflix in the future? And should we? That's based on some recent comments from Warner Music Group's CEO, which we'll get into.

0:41Dan Runcie: We'll also go over some more bold predictions. These are some predictions from some of the executives who will be in the room at the Trapital Summit, and we're going to get into all of that and more. And speaking of the Trapital Summit, this is our go time. We're in our stretch where things are heating up. The Trapital Summit is four weeks away. On Tuesday, September 15th, we will be live in Los Angeles for our third annual Trapital Summit. I know I say this every year, but I actually do believe this year will be our strongest yet. You'll hear from the global president of Ticketmaster, Samuel Mehta.

1:15Dan Runcie: You'll also hear from Larry Mistel, the CEO and founder of Primary Wave. You'll hear from Steve Boom, who runs all things audio, Twitch, and games at Amazon. You'll hear from Michelle Jubalera, who runs SoftShock and used to run Capital Music Group, and more where that came from. You want to hear about the future of the creator economy, video, audio, streaming, the future of media, entertainment, AI, where it's all going. This is the room where we will have those conversations. And like I always say, the conversations that happen offstage, frankly, are more valuable than the ones that may even happen on the stage.

1:51Listen, the speakers are great. That's why we do this.

1:54Dan Runcie: But a lot of us come to these events because who is in the room and we spend a lot of time making sure that this room does assemble the right leaders, the founders, the executives, the investors who are pushing the industry forward. Those are the people that have been listening, reading, watching, and making travel to what it is from the beginning. So we're glad that we can bring those people together for our third annual event. And make sure you have tickets before they sell out. This room may hit capacity and my event producer will not allow us to have any more people in the room despite my desires, but it is for good reason.

2:27Dan Runcie: I do believe that these events work at a particular capacity at a certain level. So if you want to be one of those in the room, make sure you get your tickets sooner rather than later. Tuesday, September 15th, The link to buy your ticket to the Trapital Summit is in the show notes, so I hope to see you there. Now, let's get into our main conversation. Does the entire music library belong on Netflix? Robert Kinsel, the CEO of Warner Music Group, was recently on Semaphore's Mixed Signals podcast, where he was asked about the future of the industry and said this, quote, I actually think that Netflix is missing one huge content lever in their fight with YouTube, which is music.

3:08Dan Runcie: All of the music on YouTube is not exclusive. He later said, I would simply license all the same music that YouTube is licensing. It would be the single largest content ingestion that anybody can go through. Imagine a section on Netflix that's purely music dedicated and create super interesting programming on top of that. End quote. For context, before Kinsel became CEO of Warner Music Group, he was chief business officer at YouTube. And before he was chief business officer at YouTube, He was an executive at Netflix and Warner Music Group itself earlier in 2026 recently signed a first look deal with Netflix to create video content around documentaries and other storytelling opportunities based on the IP.

3:53Dan Runcie: But Kinsel brings up a few things that are important reminders here. One, YouTube does not have exclusivity on music videos. Yes, it may seem like music videos are ubiquitous to the platform and that they are the first place that people think of compared to other platforms where other platforms do license music videos. Spotify currently has music videos. Amazon Prime Video currently does have music videos in some of its channels on that platform. Meta and Facebook also had music videos at one point. Didn't quite work out. We've talked about that previously in Trapital about why that is. But let's play this out into three parts.

4:29Dan Runcie: First, why is Warner Music Group saying this? Second, what is the case for Netflix? And third, how is this most likely to play out, if it does at all? The first is obvious. Warner wants to get more revenue from its existing assets. This is not just a Warner Music thing. This is a recorded music thing. This is a strategy at Universal, at Sony, at the independent companies too, the catalog acquirers that are spending millions and billions on these catalogs. they are all trying to find ways to monetize their music. All of those licensing opportunities are more incremental revenue for the asset that they've already created.

5:05Dan Runcie: You build the thing once, you license it repeatedly. That is the IP model, and music has done this consistently better than anyone. Better than anyone may be a bit debatable, but music wants to do this better than anyone and continue doing that. And Netflix has huge exposure. YouTube clearly has a larger viewing base than Netflix has overall, But Netflix still has a very valuable viewer base of people that are paying for that service, paying upwards of$25 a month or maybe even more in certain markets to access that service. So that plus the advertising revenue, more on that in a minute, could be very valuable for music.

5:43Dan Runcie: The second big reason, which Robert Kinsel alluded to in his interview, is the leverage against YouTube. Netflix clearly sees that YouTube is the elephant in the room. It's the one that it's clearly competing with. We've had episodes on this podcast where we've talked about how each of these companies has a little bit of something that the other wants. But if anything, Netflix definitely feels a threat based on some of the moves that they've made like podcasting. But guess what? If you look at all of the viewership that YouTube has on its platform, five to six percent of that viewership are video podcasts.

6:17Guess what percentage music videos are? 33 % nearly six times as much viewership is done for music videos on youtube than video podcasts so if there's any company out there in the video streaming place that really wants to compete with youtube it's probably hard to compete with them to a certain level if you don't have the type of content that they have that accounts for one third of its consumption and the leverage against youtube isn't just a youtube versus spotify and music or netflix versus spotify and video but it's also for the record labels as well. We've heard several record labels call out YouTube, whether directly

6:53Dan Runcie: or indirectly, because they do not believe that YouTube pays a commensurate value for the music that it streams. Whether that's the leadership that says that they want to have a paid ad tier to challenge what YouTube has. Irving Azoff in 2025 was more direct where he did an interview at the Bloomberg Screen Time Conference, where he called YouTube a quote, bully and quote, by far the worst offender, end quote, regarding music royalties. So another major licensee could give the labels huge negotiating leverage if they end up putting enough effort into it. Point number three, which is tied to the leverage, is that Netflix has some opportunities to create some interesting programming around its music, things that happen organically or through user generated content today on YouTube, but could that look even more elevated with a bit more budget and more engagement.

7:46Dan Runcie: If you think about music beyond just the four or five minute audio clip or the music videos on YouTube, there are the hour-long loops where there are just continuously played songs for a particular artist or theme on YouTube on different channels. There are DJ sets where they are making their own unique things. There are different genre compilations as well. Fans have their own playlists. There are live performance collections. All of those things are things that Netflix could potentially package with a bit more intentionality and authority, which could create a more elevated viewing experience because as this exists today, again, it's a bit more fragmented on YouTube.

8:26Dan Runcie: There could be something there to be said for the long tail. Some of this does exist on Amazon Prime Video. They have the licensing directly. I believe the company is Stingray and through Stingray, they're able to have these channels where you have a 90s hip hop channel, you have a pop channel and others where people can watch and tune into music videos. But again, it's very low stakes and there could be an opportunity to develop that further. Think about how popular some of Netflix's biggest shows have been and the role that music has played in them. Whether it's K-pop Demon Hunters, literally the first part of that, K-pop, music-oriented, or Stranger Things, and you think about the popularity of Kate Bush's running up that hill that that had in the summer of 2022.

9:08Dan Runcie: All of those speak to the power that music has on the platform. Reason number four is also about leverage, but leverage particularly for the music companies. If they're seen as being in business with both companies like Netflix and Spotify and YouTube, then that does make music feel more ubiquitous to the entire music, media, and entertainment ecosystem and not just the music side of things. It gives the labels another prominent platform. There's more data potentially and more commissioning opportunities for the work that they do. So the case for Warner Music Group and all rights holders for recorded music and publishing is clear.

9:45Dan Runcie: They want more revenue for what they already own. But what's the case for Netflix? Let's start with the positive. Netflix wants more repeatable content that its users can come back to. That's why it continues to pay millions of dollars to license Seinfeld. That's why it is eagerly trying to find franchises that it can create sequels for when that K-pop Demon Hunters franchise is going to have its next iteration is inevitable. We've already seen multiple Squid Games and sure, some of these sequels may hit, some of them miss, but it's the same reason why Hollywood does this. If someone likes it, the most proven thing to do is try to give them more of that same thing and ideally still incorporate all of the same great storytelling aspects that you can to keep people coming back to the platform.

10:34let's take a break for a chart metric stat of the week when it comes to music on youtube the game is simple you get in what you put in the more effort that is put into the music videos the content the content around the music videos visualizer videos you name it the more attention and the more revenue that that channel then generates for the underlying music but the less that's put in especially for an artist that may just upload the releases and then not open the channel again, the less revenue that that generates. And that's unlike the other streaming platforms. Two artists on different ends of the spectrum here are Lil Baby and Playboy Cardi.

11:10Lil Baby currently gets 6.64 million Spotify daily streams. Playboy Cardi gets 5.1 million. So they're within the same range. Lil Baby clearly has more, but they're in the same ballpark. On YouTube though, Lil Baby has 2.44 million YouTube daily views. Playboy Cardi has 105 thousand. Again, night and day. Lil Baby, actively managed channel, Playboy Cardi, hasn't posted a video in over a year, and outside of the last album that he released, I Am Music, has barely posted anything in the past five years. So imagine that opportunity to lift. Those artists that may not be putting in as much, there is a tremendous opportunity here for licensing the type of content that is lived in music, particularly on YouTube, and could be elsewhere in the future.

11:59Let's get back to the episode. The sneaky reason that I think may actually be the biggest pitch for Netflix is advertising. We've talked about this on this episode before. Advertising is the one product that YouTube has excelled at and that Netflix, which is newer to the game, is trying to find ways to excel. And it's a little bit easier for YouTube to excel at advertising when a third of the consumed content on the platform, music videos are inherently based and native for advertisement insertion, whether that's before music video, after music video. There are natural endpoints to be able to insert an ad without it feeling nearly as disruptive as it does for a lot of the content that lives on the Netflix platform.

12:44Again, Netflix's product was not built for advertising, but then decade plus later, They're now trying to build it into the product with varying levels of success. But there's so many unique advertising products that a company like Netflix can create. Look at the way that the NFL or other products are created. Oh, we have the official beverage sponsor. You could have the official R &B sponsor, the official pop music sponsor, the official sponsor for Prince music or any of the type of thing that you see. You could also have release week campaigns, fast channels, the same way that you see them on other platforms or unique opportunities to be able to try to do the same.

13:23And as a product that can help increase this particular area ad revenue, which is incremental for Netflix, there could be a strong case to be made there. But let's get to the flip side. Well, there are several reasons why Netflix may not be as interested in this. The first is that Netflix isn't short of music-related content. There are artist documentaries on Netflix. There are biopics. There are concert specials for many of the biggest artists in the world, live performances. There are podcasts that are primarily focused on music that came as part of that Spotify Netflix deal. There are music-driven films.

13:58There are already sync placements in the biggest shows. There are plenty of ways that Netflix is able to have the experience of selling music to its subscribers without needing to pay the major record labels or the independent ones rights or licensing fees in order to get the actual songs

14:16Dan Runcie: themselves, the individual songs and albums on the platform. So if you're Netflix, there's a case to be said that you're already capturing the most valuable part of the video music content ecosystem without needing to go through what a traditional DSP would need to go through in order to license that music. Speaking of licensing, most of these streaming services that have music are used to paying a marginal cost every time someone streams music on that platform. That is the complete opposite of how Netflix has historically done business. Netflix pays upfront to either acquire or create the IP that lives in its catalog, and it then amortizes it and monetizes it over time from people either subscribing to the content, watching it, and then generating ad revenue based on what they consume.

15:06So Netflix is not in the, oh, every dollar we get, we have to pay 70 cents to the major record labels for this type of content. That doesn't mean that a unique type of agreement couldn't be created. Advances already exist between the major rights holders and the streaming platforms. Again, that doesn't mean it may not be different, but that isn't how they do business. The other challenge is this. Yes, I shared the engagement numbers earlier for what Spotify may have shared from its engagement with its music videos, but engagement isn't enough. The value needs to be incremental. Netflix would need to have evidence that music, whether it's music videos or just audio that lives on the content that its subscribers can use, is this something that adds subscribers?

15:48Is this something that helps us meaningfully generate ad revenue that generates a return for our partners? Does it help reduce our churn for subscribers? Does it expand our usage? Does it help create profitable hours of viewing? And is it reaching any audiences that we currently miss that would then be willing to use our product, even though this music is readily available for free, ad supported on YouTube? That's a tall proposition, but that is what would need to be proved in order for this to make economic sense. Another big challenge here is consumer behavior. When people go to Netflix, I'll speak for myself.

16:27When I go to Netflix, I'm normally sitting back. I'm either watching a show that's around half an hour or a show that's an hour long, maybe a movie that's an hour and a half, two hours, or maybe even two and a half hours. It is a very active plan. Sure, I do eventually lean back, but it is a very active plan of, okay, I'm doing something that is relatively speaking more uninterrupted and focused than I am when I'm doing everything else. My behavior is a little bit different when I'm using YouTube. Even if I'm watching a video podcast on YouTube, I may set the laptop open. I may have my phone open.

17:00I may be doing chores around the kitchen, doing things around the house, just having it on in the background, knowing that, okay, if there's an ad break that comes through, that's okay. If a phone call comes through, if I get interrupted by something, it's fine. It's playing in the background. And I think that music videos bring that even to another level because it's something that is three to five minutes. I'm used to switching between them. And that is true whether I'm listening to something on Spotify or just cues to go to the next song on a playlist. And YouTube already has a lot of this playlist functionality as well.

17:30But that doesn't yet exist in that same way in Netflix. Sure, after I finish a show, they may recommend other shows to me, but that product doesn't need to be nearly as intuitive and built out that the way that it currently is on Spotify and YouTube as it exists today. So if Netflix wants to get there and if music videos is one of the core things that it has, yes, it may likely end up creating some of

17:53Dan Runcie: the things that Robert Kinsel was alluding to, whether it is additional elevated content experiences or continuous playlists, artists and genre channels, notifications, different types of products that are there. And that's all great. But again, that doesn't exist the way that is today. And it can take time to do that. Remember Spotify and YouTube took years to get to this point. The other dynamic with Netflix, which maybe they would work out, maybe it isn't the most fair thing, but I'm going to mention it anyway, is that Netflix is a bit more secretive when it comes to engagement, consumption, and how much a particular thing was streamed or viewed.

18:31Music's the exact opposite. Spotify tells you exactly how many streams this song has had. It has a Billions Club to honor the ones that have hit that milestone. YouTube also has an equivalent Billions Club for the music videos that have hit a similar threshold. This is music. There are charts. There are other things. People love to compare that type of status on the platform.

18:52Dan Runcie: Can Netflix create something similar? I wouldn't doubt that they can create a top 10 videos watched on the platform, and that can be its own thing. But for the record labels, will the record labels be able to get the type of data that they want? And the answer to that, generally speaking, would be yes, because on platforms like Apple Music, Apple Music isn't necessarily reporting publicly, oh, Drake One Dance has X number of streams if it's one of the most streamed songs on the platform, but the record labels know exactly how many streams they got. At the end of the day, that's probably what matters.

19:23Dan Runcie: So if you're Netflix, how do you find a way to balance both the public desire for charts and the status that that can give while also not sharing too much because you're Netflix and you really don't share much about what the engagement looks like unless it's things that you directly choose. Again, it's just very different to how music may operate in that way. Another point worth mentioning here, particularly for Netflix, if they would have to license this music, how many different conversations are they having? Are all of those players going to be in lockstep? Because again, you don't want to create a situation where, oh, one of the record labels is with you, the other one is on the fence, and the other one is like, no, we won't work with you until we get XYZ.

20:05That's a very tough proposition for consumers because the average consumer doesn't know who's on Atlantic Records, who's on Capitol, who's on Republic. That's not how they think. And as we've seen recently with both Suno and Eleven Labs, the record labels are split right now on which company is partnering with this company, which other company is still on the fence and entertaining conversations, and which company is saying, no, say no to Suno, we're not working with them. This all is very public and granted AI and a AI licensing platform, the plane is being built as we're flying it and figuring it all out.

20:38I understand why those conversations may not be in lockstep and why there's clearly not a consensus. But if you're Netflix, that necessarily isn't the easiest ground to walk on because especially if you're talking to Warner Music Group leadership or they're the platform that is working now directly with Suno when it seems like the other major record labels may not be, and it may not happen anytime soon. Granted, Netflix is not a generative AI music platform, but those are the type of things that you would want to see play out. So what's going to happen?

21:11Dan Runcie: Will Netflix do it? Should Netflix do it? And to be clear, those are two different questions. I'll start with the first. Will Netflix do it? I could see them doing a test, to be honest, no different than the video podcast have been a test. Let's test a few. Let's see how the engagement goes. Let's see if we can create some low lift but unique opportunities that stand out beyond what's available on YouTube. Because again, if there was so much effort put into video podcasting, something that according to the Omdia research takes up 6 % of the viewership consumption time on YouTube, then why wouldn't you make a bet on the thing that takes up six times that, one third the viewership content in music and music videos particularly.

21:51Dan Runcie: You license a few of those, you get a few major artists to have an upcoming release, Maybe you license a festival or a concert. What if Jay-Z had his release tied in with Netflix in some type of way for this upcoming album? He's always tried to find unique partnerships and ways to do his deals. We've covered that extensively at Trappler, whether it was Samsung with the Magna Carta Holy Grail album or Sprint with the 444 album. Wow, the fact that we're saying Sprint with that one just shows you how long it's been since Jay-Z has released an album. but still, those are the type of things that could be interesting.

22:25Is there a particular artist that you could work with? Or, okay, you wanna live stream as well and see what a live stream concert could look like. Could you live stream one of Jay-Z's upcoming shows? These are lower lift ways to test out whether or not something like this can work. And if something like this can work, then if you'd be like, okay, all right, that worked cool with the Jay-Z, maybe we extend this to a Warner Music Group. Maybe we extend this to a Cobalt or just one of these companies that has been a bit more willing to test some of the licensing. And then at that point, you see where things go.

22:56Dan Runcie: Of course, to be clear, this is an industry where if Universal Music Group is behind it, it does become a little bit easier to do stuff, calling out the size difference between the companies there. But I think that still, there would be a lot that needs to line up. But again, I could see a test happening before we just have a full-on license. But the second question I ask though, should Netflix do this? Does Netflix need this? And to say Netflix needs it would be a test, but I think it's worth a test. It could be interesting for the advertising piece alone, not for incremental subscriber growth.

23:30I'm not as necessarily sold on that, but the type of advertisers that have benefited well

23:35Dan Runcie: by having their music advertised across music videos. Think about the types that are working directly with live music companies and others to do their type of sponsorship and advertising programs. Those are the type of companies that could be customers for Netflix, especially if they're not already in the Netflix advertising ecosystem. I bet they're already in the YouTube advertising ecosystem as well. But those are the type of things that I think could be worthwhile. Because as a sense today, I'm less convinced that Netflix needs to become a complete music video DSP and build it out to the same way that YouTube currently has it today.

24:13Dan Runcie: Could that happen down the road? Maybe, but do a few tests, try to get a few of these lined up and then you can really see what's there. Because again, I think the engagement numbers are just too hard to call out. I think that it was, to be fair, a strong point made by Robert Kinsel to put it out there. And this is one of those where I really sat with. I wanted to say, huh, where are we trying to go with this? But the more I sat with it, I became less skeptical over time, to be fair. And I said, okay, I think there is a case here and there could be some challenges that are worth calling out. And I'll stand by each of those challenges, but there is some opportunity there.

24:48Dan Runcie: So if you're Netflix, if you're Warner, and again, since Netflix and Warner are already working together, it'll be interesting to see how all of this plays out. Because again, what you don't want to repeat is Facebook and Facebook's attempt at music videos. But again, that is another story for another day. And that is a wrap for our Netflix and music portion of the conversation. Next, you'll hear our bold prediction segment with Epidemic Sounds, Jesper Stafas, who is the VP of Music and Artist Operations. Hope you enjoy. Now we have our Bold Predictions segment leading up to our Trapital Summit.

25:24Dan Runcie: We are hearing from the leaders with their bold predictions. Today, we're joined by Epidemic Sounds, Jesper Stafas. Welcome to the show. Thank you, Dan. Happy to be here. Looking forward to the summit. I'm glad you'll be joining us. It's only a few weeks away, but this is the Bold Predictions segment, so let's hear it. My bold prediction is that I see in the near future traditional record labels and music companies are evolving into IP law firms with the music division. Soon the legal departments will outnumber the music professionals and A &Rs at music companies. So more lawyers than A &Rs at the record labels.

26:03Yeah, that's what I see in the future. And a couple of things are taking us to that. The shift is really happening because these days, creating and distributing content for a global audience has never been easier. And all content relies on music to come alive. So everything will be in an abundance. And music is super important for this content to travel. And second, AI production of content is also picking up. So as AI makes it easier for content producer brands, global brands and creators, making it easier to create and distribute with AI, it's easier to monitor digital content on the internet and look for unlicensed music.

26:51It's easier than ever to create music, but the AI side of it would definitely help IP owners to monitor and track unlicensed music on digital platforms.

27:04Dan Runcie: Definitely the way that things are going with AI. And of course, you have a front row seat with Epidemic Sound, seeing all of the ways that music is integrated in video on the Internet. I'm curious, though, do you see the increase of this as things that still need human intervention? Or do you think that AI itself can do more of this detection and some of the lower level tasks related to making sure that the IP is protected? This new reality creates a major challenge for brands and professional creators who needs clear and bulletproof music licenses to avoid lawsuits and to maintain compliance across all this content, social media posts, all the digital assets they produce.

27:44We are seeing an increasing number of brands facing legal action for using unlicensed music. A lot of that is legacy content on social media platforms. When we hear from brands, when we survey them, is that they sit, some of them, on taking bombs where they've been using music on their content on social media platforms and now risking lawsuits. This is really a disconnect, I would say, between global corporate policies and local or agency production hubs and social media producers who historically, I would say, it has not been as important to really stay with licensed music in the content.

28:32Dan Runcie: I imagine that for a lot of people that have any connection to using content, video, audio in the work that they make, this is something that they're likely sensitive to one way or another. Because I know on my end, even for the footage that we will put out every once in a while on YouTube and other places, we do get those takedown notices if there is something. And a lot of times it isn't because of intent. And sometimes you just don't know, you thought that this thing was cleared, and sometimes it isn't. And that really does take a full-time job to do. Yeah, 100%. And as you know, we're a soundtracking company.

29:10And when we surveyed brands in the U.S. and the U.K. just this year, it turns out that 95 % feel like music licensing is a major bottleneck slowing down the production. And even worse, half of them have dealt with copyright takedowns in the last two years, exactly to what you say. It's been, let's call it the Wild West historically. It hasn't been as high risk to be found or detected when you're using a licensed music. But with AI detection tools these days, it's an increasing risk, especially for brands and professional creators.

29:48Dan Runcie: One half of your prediction is about the increase of lawyers and legal staff needed to be able to do this. The other half of it is the A &R staff focused on frontline music itself. Does your prediction also imply changes there, whether you think that's going to be stable, just given the increase on the legal side, or do you see a decrease there over time? I definitely see an increase on the legal side. Music rights for IP owners is part of the business and it's becoming the core of the business. With this landscape we're living in right now, where music production has never been easier, distribution to a global audience has never been easier.

30:27What it really boils down to going forward is that when these AI tools can detect fragments in AI-created music, the legal landscape will evolve even more. and the need for legal departments and lawyers will be even bigger. So yes, I definitely see an increase in this.

30:47Dan Runcie: Do you expect to see a decrease in the A &R staff required? Because I know that was the other part, right? Maybe the A &R role is shifting. The A &R role is historically probably the most important role in the music business. And there will still be. There will always be a need for the people who can identify talent, great tracks, and so on. And the need for them will not decrease. I would say that human ear is going to be even more important going forward. That's something the AI has a hard time replacing. AI can replicate and they can do fantastic generative music right now, but it cannot really replicate the vibe or pick up exactly those small nuances in music that the human ear and brain is perfectly suited to.

31:39curate and highlight to the global audience. I definitely see A &Rs will increase, but they might be having a shifting role. My strong belief in human-made music, and that's, you know, epidemic sound, every track in the catalog is human-made music. We have a strong belief it is the future. It's unbeatable the way any track by humans are composed and produced. That's the future. That's how I see it.

32:05Dan Runcie: And then to be clear with your prediction, Do you expect to see this happen at both the major record label and the indie record labels as well? Or do you see that one side of the business is more likely to have more legal staff than A &R staff? I think it's going to be important. And we all don't want to go down the route where people are using music unlicensed or without the rights to use it. So I believe both independent record companies and majors will see an increase in this. Three years down the road, for your prediction to be true, what will have to play out in the music ecosystem for that to happen?

32:46I would say we will see an increase in AI detection of people or digital assets out there on the internet being used without proper license or use music licensing. And as we know historically that that's been the case and the detection tools are becoming better and better, lawsuits will follow. So I believe that my prediction sounds very bold, but I don't think it's very bold. I think we're on a good way to reach that.

33:16Dan Runcie: Well, we'll definitely have to tap back in in a few years to see how things play out. Jesper, I appreciate you coming on and sharing this with us. And we're excited to see you in a couple of weeks in L.A. at the summit. Thank you, Dan, for having me. Looking forward to see you and take care until then. Thank you. And that is a wrap. Thank you again to our guests for sharing your insightful bold predictions. Can't wait to see you in a few weeks at our summit. Thank you again to G, Eric, Rwana for everything that you do to help make this Trapital podcast and Trapital itself possible. And most importantly, thank you for listening.

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