680a The Last Cowboys; Perfect Day California; American Bald Eagle

20:46Rick Steves:There you go. If you're traveling with kids, you've got lots to do there. That was Columbia State Historic Park, right? Correct. Ride a stagecoach, drink some sarsaparilla. There's another place where you can ride a steam train, an old steam train. That's Railroad 1897 State Historic Park down in Jamestown. All right. And so history buffs would enjoy that. Also, I like the thought that, like in, I guess you wrote, the only coastal town designated as a historic preserved site, Mendocino. Sounds lovely. I've never been there. Oh, you've never been to Mendocino? No. This is a little beyond reach for a one-day trip from San Francisco.

21:25It's a place you'd probably opt for to overnight. This kind of New England-style village on its peninsula is very lonesome, but it has an absolutely fantastic setting there, surrounded atop the cliffs by fantastic coastal vistas. and just walking around the town itself, little town full of clapboard houses, is reward in itself. Although there are specific venues around Mendocino that you would probably want to add to a day just walking around the old hilltop town.

21:58Rick Steves:Now there's something called a pygmy forest. What is a pygmy forest? Well, this is in Van Damme State Park and you have various ecosystems there. A pygmy forest is a specific vegetation type of trees that are almost bonsai, and they're a result of cold mist little sun that stunt the growth of the forest, and it has its own peculiarity, and walking amongst them is shrouded forest. It is a fabulous experience. Rhododendrons growing wild there amongst the pygmy forest. You know, there's so much nature, there's so much history, there's so much also potential for tourism, which does turn a lot of places into kind of, like, they can get kind of kitschy, but you've worked to try to steer people around that.

22:46Rick Steves:It seems like Eureka would be a breath of fresh air in a lot of ways. Worth checking out. Oh, absolutely, and not least because it's the furthest north of the cities in California, right there on the coast. So because of its distance from the main cities, it doesn't get as much visitation as other places. But it retains its historic feel as a lumbering and old fishing center, of course, lumbering for the Redwoods. And, of course, nearby, we have to mention it, is the Avenue of the Giants. And if I have a top experience that I enjoyed motorcycling throughout California, it is the ride, the sinuous, sweeping one lane road through the Avenue of the Giants of the Redwood Forest.

23:31Absolutely sensational experience.

23:33Rick Steves:I can imagine. I don't ride a motorcycle, but I'd love to be in the back of yours and just kind of arcing through there, huh? Well, I usually only take women on the back of my motorcycle, Rick. Oh, come on. We'll do it in the car. We'll do it in the car. Okay, in the car. That's good. Okay. This is Travel with Rick Steves. We're talking with Christopher P. Baker. His book is Perfect Day California, and it's highlighting the 29 best day plans you could have while visiting California, most of them within easy striking distance of Los Angeles or San Francisco. You know, Chris, when we travel, I know this when I'm helping people travel around Europe, a lot of times there's redundancy.

24:10Rick Steves:You know, how many Madonnas and children are you going to see? How many hill towns are you going to climb to check out? How many cathedrals are you going to see? And you need to sort through that. Are you going to see Oxford and Cambridge? No, see one or the other because you want to make up time for something entirely different. How do you deal with that in California? Because you do have a lot of choices. You've got a lot of beaches. You've got a lot of historic missions. You've got a lot of scenic drives. You've got a lot of wineries. Did you think about that as you were putting this together, this book?

24:37Oh, absolutely. I think you answered it there in your own question because there is so much diversity. So, yes, I did absolutely focus on the need to cater to all tastes, as it were. But throughout, the one common denominator is my desire to focus on what would I personally like to experience combined diversity, but the top venues. And then what are the secondary things that would really appeal maybe to more specific interests?

25:05Rick Steves:Yeah. So getting back to this redundancy thing, Chris, just in a very unapologetic blitz kind of way, I'm going to ask you, if you're going to sort through all these things, what would be your favorite beach, your favorite historic mission, your favorite scenic drive, and your favorite winery? Okay. I wish you'd prepared me for that one. Okay, so you don't have to be exactly right, but just blurt out, if you're going to do one beach, what's your favorite beach? Oh, gosh. I love Stinson Beach because I've got fond memories when I lived up in the Bay Area. Stinson Beach. Stinson Beach is in the book.

25:40Rick Steves:Okay. So it would be an option from Sausalito. You have a chapter on Sausalito because it combines getting to Stinson Beach north of Sausalito on the Pacific coast. So that's a coast that's not on the Bay. It's on the coast, and it's north of the Golden Gate Bridge. Yeah. It involves a beautiful drive that is perfect to combine with Muir Woods. Oh, good. Up over the coastal mountains, a scenic drive. If you love driving as I do, it's a fabulous experience. You drop down to Stinson Beach, which is several miles long, very popular for fishing. But also you can just walk that beach two or three miles and it ends at Bolinas Lagoon with fabulous birding, etc.

26:20Nice. You may be lucky enough to see whales offshore. All right.

26:24Rick Steves:Historic mission. Historic mission. Well, we have 21 missions, of course, probably the Santa Barbara mission because it is still an active mission. You still have monks there and it is one probably the most best preserved of the missions. And so in my book, it is one of the two major profile destinations for Santa Barbara. And it gives you a good excuse to make that effort to go to Santa Barbara from Los Angeles. and do the monks welcome you there? Oh, absolutely, sure. I mean, for the most part, they're hidden away. Yeah. You know, you've got the touristy venue side of it and then the more reserved, peaceful.

27:05Rick Steves:All right. A great place if you're on a motorcycle. You've already said the Redwood Forest. Another one, other than the Redwood Forest. Oh, you know, I would probably add a destination that I couldn't even put in the book because I really wished it was 30 destinations just because a page count is not there, and that is the Owens Valley. But let's deal with what is in the book. Well, most of these destinations are actually not focused on drives per se. Oh, I know, Lassen Volcano National Park. That would be a full-day loop drive around the volcano out of Reading. And that is a sensational experience, not just for anybody who wants that kind of geological 101 with stops, but it is a scenic highlight.

27:53Rick Steves:Is it like a nicely paved small road, like a two-lane road or a one-lane road? That's exactly right. Of course, it's a national park highway. It's well-maintained. And it's beautiful. It will be the equivalent maybe of doing Crater Lake up in Oregon. Ah, Crater Lake. I've done that. And I've also, there's like a long driveway. There's like a 10-mile long. It feels like you're on some rich person's driveway. You know, it's just almost one lane, and it's just perfectly smooth, and it goes all around the volcano in Sicily, Mount Etna. And when you talk about Lassen, it'd be something like that. I can imagine it's similar.

28:25Rick Steves:Yeah. All right. And then we can't go to all the wineries. What's your favorite winery experience? There's no doubt about it. It's highlighted in the book, and that is the Hess Collection in Napa Valley. The which collection? Hess. H-E-S-S. H-E-S-S. The Hess Collection is the name of the winery. All right. The wines are obviously Hess. That is the name of the owner of the winery. But it is remarkable because it is in a 1903 historic building, but it also has one of the best private art galleries in the world. And certainly within California, an outstanding museum of contemporary art inside the winery.

29:06Rick Steves:You can be sipping your wine as you wander through the gallery? I don't think that is actually permitted. Oh, that's... You would separate the two out. You would take in whichever you wish to do first. You'd have your wine sampling and then you'd take the winery tour and or do the art museum. There you go. One of the most rewarding states in the Union for an enjoyable road trip has just got to be California, if you can budget for the high price of gas. Christopher P. Bakers, our guest right now on Travel with Rick Steves to offer ideas for day trips from the big cities and other routes that might take a few days.

29:43Rick Steves:Chris highlights the variety of the Golden State in his book Perfect Day California with daily itineraries for the discerning traveler. Chris's website includes links to his articles, books, and tours he's leading in Cuba and Colombia. That's at ChristopherPBaker.com. Christopher, your book has been so much fun to read through, and I noticed in every destination you've got a favorite restaurant. Let's just say I was going to ask you to take me out to dinner tonight, and you wanted to give me an experience that would make me want to come back to California again and again and again? Good question.

30:18Well, I've got a whole range of restaurants here. Some of them are really upscale, well-known venues that, for example, in Los Angeles. But I think I'd probably...

30:27Rick Steves:I like funky places, kind of family run, where I feel the pulse of the community and culture. That's what I'm going to take you to. And that's Lola's Mexican Cuisine in Long Beach. This is a real... It's iconic for a Mexican, real grandmother's cooking. And in fact, the owner states quite frankly that he learned much of his techniques and recipes from his grandmother. Okay, this is Long Beach and what's the name again? Long Beach. It's called Lola's Mexican Cuisine. Oh, Lola. Okay, great. I'll see you there. What time? Can we do tomorrow? Tomorrow. All right. Christopher Baker, congratulations on this book.

31:03Rick Steves:Perfect Day, California. And I'm sure that'll bring a lot of people a lot of travel joy. Happy travels. Thank you. Take me riding in the car, car, take me riding in the car, car, take you riding in my car, car, I'll take you riding in my car.

31:20Rick Steves:It nearly went extinct twice in the 20th century. Jack Emerson Davis is a distinguished professor of history at the University of Florida in Gainesville. He's written a cultural and natural history on the American bald eagle and how its changing fortunes amplify the nation's history. Hear about the improbable journey of the bald eagle and why it's a conservation success story that we can all be proud of. Next on Travel with Rick Steves.

31:50Mina Soraya, we come from Cernan and I crys with Rick Steves. I'm Soraya from Cernan and that was Cernamese for I travel with Rick Steves. Mina Soraya and Ikraes Metric Steves Thank you. Granthangi. Bon day.

32:16Rick Steves:No other bird in American history has been the object of so much admiration and cruelty as the bald eagle. As historian Jack E. Davis sees it, the national symbol that came close to extinction twice in the 20th century demonstrates our country's tenuous relationship with the natural world, and the eagle's fortitude speaks to our hopes for the future. Jack Davis has written a cultural and natural history called The Bald Eagle, The Improbable Journey of America's Bird. He joins us now on Travel with Rick Steves from the studios of WUFT at the University of Florida, where he teaches history and humanities.

32:51Rick Steves:Jack, welcome. Thank you. Thanks for being with us, and thanks for giving Americans Americans an opportunity to get to know our bird a little better. You know, after reading through your book, it just occurred to me, the eagle is like, it's everywhere. It's on the Capitol Dome. It's on military insignias. It's on top of flagpoles. It's on tattoos. It's like the star of the great seal of the USA. What is it about this bird? Well, I think, of course, the image is everywhere, and the living species wasn't always that way, which we can talk about in a minute. But the eagle conveys attributes that we associate with the United States, strength and courage and freedom.

33:33It's a handsome bird and it's also highly recognizable, or at least adults are, with their white heads and their white tails and their dark bodies.

33:41Rick Steves:Is it kind of the way we want to see ourself? Is this one bird that we think, you know, in our own pride represents us well? I think so. I think that's part of it. But eagles, of course, have been on nation state insignia dating back to the ancient Romans and the Greeks. But the eagles that were part of that heraldry tended to be non-ornithological. They didn't represent any particular species. The bald eagle is the first one that's identifiable as a species. And it's an appropriate one because the bald eagle lives only in North America. So it's truly an all-American bird. So, I mean, it's not that clear.

34:21Rick Steves:I mean, you know, I think of an eagle as a noble raptor. But settlers, farmers, they kind of scorned them for a while, according to your book. They did scorn them for quite a while. When the Continental Congress adopted the Great Seal of the United States in 1782, the image of the bald eagle on the front of the seal became hugely popular. But the species itself was not. It's a top predator. and it was treated like other predators such as mountain lions and coyotes and wolves and bears. And so an eagle seen was an eagle to be shot to protect livestock or backyard chickens for that matter. You wrote how Ben Franklin actually liked the wild turkey better.

35:05If we can trust Ben Franklin. But he did write in a letter to his daughter comparing the quote-unquote morality of the wild turkey with the bald eagle. He referred to the wild turkey as industrious, courageous bird, and the bald eagle is a ranked coward and thief.

35:23Rick Steves:So what was the – I mean we talked about it going back to ancient Roman times and so on. But here in our hemisphere, what about Native Americans? I assume eagles were around before white settlers. Yes. The best we can tell is that bald eagles have been around for a million years. At least fossil evidence of today indicates that. For many Native peoples, bald eagles were and are a spirit bird dating back thousands of years. You know, they're messengers between Earth and lost ancestors and the Creator. So the eagle's feathers and body parts have long been used in religious ceremonies of many Native groups.

36:03Rick Steves:So did that make the eagle hunted actually by Native Americans for their need for eagle feathers for their spiritual rituals? Yes, they did. They did hunt eagles. They did not hunt them in excess. They took what they needed. Generally, there was elaborate ceremony around the hunting of an eagle and taking it from the wild and a designated eagle catcher or killer. Yeah, I think you've even got a photograph in your book of an eagle catcher. And it just occurred to me, wow, somebody had the role of being an eagle catcher because they needed that to feather their rituals. That's exactly right. No native group is identical to another native group, so they had their separate rituals.

36:46Some native people, such as the Zuni, didn't kill eagles, but they would take eaglets out of a nest. As long as there were at least two eaglets in a nest, they would only take one, and they would raise that eagle in a stockade, and they would pluck its feathers, but they wouldn't kill it.

37:01Rick Steves:This is Travel with Rick Steves, and we're getting a closer look at America through its relationship with the natural world with historian Jack E. Davis. Jack's written The Bald Eagle, The Improbable Journey of America's Bird, to explain the plight of the bald eagle in the USA and its role in how America sees itself. Jack teaches at the University of Florida and writes about the importance of the Gulf of Mexico as America's sea in his earlier book called The Gulf. That title earned him a Pulitzer Prize in history. We have links to Jack's work with this week's show. It's at ricksteves.com slash radio.

37:36Rick Steves:So the eagle, when I grew up, it was kind of big news that, oh, the eagle is an endangered species, and how can America's bird be endangered? Tell us a little background on the struggle that the eagle has had in the last century just to survive. Yeah, you know, Rick, you and I are both baby boomers, so an eagle was a rare sight when we were growing up. You grew up in, growing up in Washington, you may have seen more than what I saw in Florida, which was zero, but after Congress passed the 1940 Bald Eagle Protection Act to bring it back from the brink of extinction. Five years later, DDT was released to the general market.

38:17And DDT had a devastating impact on all sorts of wildlife, bird life, also fish life. And the bald eagle is a fishing raptor. It'll eat birds, it'll eat land animals, but it prefers fish. And so not only did DDT get into the blood system of bald eagles and caused them to have nest failures. DDT also robbed them of much of their food sources, as did habitat destruction. As I said earlier, you and I are baby boomers, and the population in the United States was booming, and so was construction and robbing wildlife of much of its habitat. So by 1963, the nesting population of bald eagles in the lower 48 had reached its nadir.

39:00There were fewer than 500 nesting pairs in the lower 48 states.

39:04Rick Steves:Holy cow, it got down to 500 couples? Yes, that's correct. That's less than 1 ,000 birds. So we actually turned the corner, and now, I mean, yeah, you're right. When I was a kid, when you saw an eagle, that was, you'd stop the car, you know. Now it's not that way. That's right, and I think that's one reason why we really love the bald eagle and we're so excited to see it. I call it a poke the guy in the ribs next to you moment of excitement when you see a bald eagle. Yeah. Because, you know, 10, 15 years ago, we didn't see very many bald eagles, but now we're seeing them all the time. The population has rebounded beyond everybody's expectation, even scientists who worked in bald eagle restoration.

39:45And the estimated population continent-wide is now 500 ,000, which is equal to the – yes, and that's equal to the estimated population that existed at the time Europeans first arrived in North America.

39:59Rick Steves:Yeah, that's 500-fold what it was at its low point, and that's quite a success for a society to actually take a concern about something in nature and bring it back to health. That is quite a success story, isn't it? It's a wonderful success story. It's one of the great conservation success stories in American history, I would argue. You know, in bringing the bald eagle back to life, what we did was we cleaned up its habitat, and, of course, we share that habitat. We cleaned up the waters around the country, the bays and bayous and rivers and the coastal waters, places where we swim and fish. In the 1970s, the beginning of the 1970s, barely one-third of the nation's waters were safe for swimming and fishing.

40:41And that was eagle habitat, but also our habitat.

40:45Rick Steves:You know, we should do more to celebrate those kind of successes to embolden us to aim higher, you know, to take care of the environment. I agree with you. In fact, you just identified my next book, which will be a history of environmental successes. I think readers get a little bit too much doom and gloom, you know, the grim and the tragic. And there's plenty of grim and tragic in the bald eagles' history with America. But there's also redemption and restoration. And so I wrote this book in part because I wanted to give readers a break from the doom and the gloom. Good for you. To know the success story.

41:19Rick Steves:When you read through it, you just feel good. you're rooting for the eagle as a species, and you're rooting for our society to do something about a problem that was going to lead this beautiful bird to extinction. And Jack, correct me if I'm wrong, but this national bird is kind of handy as a national bird because you can see it all over America, from Alaska all the way to Florida. Where would we look to find the bald eagle? Where you are guaranteed to see bald eagles is in Alaska at the Chilcot Bald Eagle Preserve near Haynes. Any time of the year you can go there and you'll get a good show. But there are other places in the lower 48.

41:58Real Foot National Wildlife Refuge in Tennessee is another wonderful place. North Platte National Wildlife Refuge in Nebraska. The Klamath River Basin or the Klamath Basin out near you in Oregon and California is another wonderful place. And right here in north central Florida, one of my favorite places to go see eagles is at Loch Lusa Lake in Hawthorne, Florida. But also one of the funnest places I went to a few years ago was Conowingo Dam in northern Maryland. Not only were there hundreds of eagles, but there were hundreds of photographers there.

42:35Rick Steves:Wow. Now, is it a seasonal thing? Is it like, hey, it's eagle watching time? Or can you just go to these places anytime and expect to see beautiful eagles soaring in the sky? The best time to see eagles is usually from fall through spring. The summertime, they're on the move. They're migrators, and you might not get as lucky during the summertime. Are there certain opportunities to just marvel at their massive nests that these raptors build? Yeah, so nesting season varies across the country, but it's generally from November through late spring. You can see their nests. They are huge nests. They are the largest nests in North America.

43:17And let me tell you, those nests are just beautifully constructed. They're a true wonder.

43:23Rick Steves:Jack E. Davis teaches history and humanities at the University of Florida. He's written 10 books, including The Bald Eagle, The Improbable Journey of America's Bird. Jack was named Florida House Distinguished Author in 2024, and he won a Pulitzer for his earlier book about the Gulf. You can hear our conversation on that topic at RickSteves.com slash radio. There's something, well, obviously majestic about eagles soaring high above. Just to observe an eagle, it's both graceful and powerful. And you've done a lot of thought about just the physical presence of an eagle. I mean, you wrote about how when you're standing close to an eagle and it takes off, there's just this explosion of wind power, and you get a sense of how strong this bird is.

44:13Rick Steves:Talk a little bit about just the grace and the power of our national bird. I mean, you described it really nicely. Grace and power really go with this bird in flight. I sort of compare them with, you know, fighter jets or, you know, a top gun. And they are expert maneuvers. They have just an ideal wingspan that allows them to soar, but also to maneuver in tight turns. They are fast. Somebody here locally has recorded them flying above the water 60, 70 miles an hour, and there is just a lot of power behind them. What advice would you give us to know how to look at an eagle when it's soaring around or wherever we are?

44:59Well, first you want to look for the whitehead and whitetail, which is only common to the adults. They reach their mature years at four or five years. And the young eagles, which are the same size as the adults, when they're first out of the nest, tend to be almost a solid chocolate brown. And through the years, they start becoming mottled with white. But what to look for is sometimes it's hard to distinguish them between vultures. And the two birds tend to hang out together. They both soar.

45:32Rick Steves:You know, Jack, it's interesting you brought up vulture because occasionally I find myself looking at what I think is an eagle and thinking how dramatic and beautiful, and then I realize, uh-oh, is that a vulture? And I just feel kind of yucky that I was admiring a bird I wasn't supposed to admire, and I thought it was an eagle. We do sort of favor the eagle, and there are other raptors up there that do look like an eagle that we could mistaken for an eagle. Yes, that's right. But you're allowed to like the vulture and admire the vulture. I mean, they serve an important purpose. But, yes, it's easy to mistake in the bald eagle for another bird or vice versa.

46:12The bald eagle tends to have a more muscular wingbeat than the vulture. The vulture tends to soar more and soar more in circles. The bald eagle will hunt from the air, but it also hunts from the perch to conserve energy. It will sit on a branch somewhere. It's got eagle eyes. You with the, oh, those eagle's eyes can spot something a mile to two miles away. There you go.

46:36Rick Steves:You see them perched there, and they're not just hanging out. They're using those eyes to get sent in. They're not that lazy bird that Ben Franklin accused them of being. Right. This is Travel with Rick Steves. We're talking with Jack E. Davis, and he teaches environmental history and sustainability studies at the University of Florida in Gainesville. Jack won a Pulitzer Prize for his book The Gulf, The Making of an American Sea, which we'll discuss on a future edition of Travel with Rick Steves Right now, we're looking at what Jack's learned about the bald eagle and its role as an American national symbol.

47:06Rick Steves:His book is The Bald Eagle, The Improbable Journey of America's Bird. Now, eagles, you wrote about how they are actually considered among the animal world's finest parents. Tell us a little bit about that. Yes, you know, we have to give credit to ourselves for bringing the bald eagle population back. We worked hard, but we also have to give equal credit to bald eagles themselves. They have what I refer to as the ideal family values. They mate for life. They maintain a fidelity to the same nest as long as that nest exists. If it doesn't come down in a storm or somebody doesn't take the nesting tree.

47:45And they raise their young with such care. They feed them so well that when they leave the nest, they are the same. They're typically slightly larger than their parents are. maybe a pound heavier in some cases.

48:01Rick Steves:It's just great to know more about this bird that really is woven into our DNA as citizens of the United States of America. And, you know, it's patriotic, it's stirring, it kind of reminds us of the nobility and the self-sufficiency of us as a nation and we like to think as individuals, I would imagine. And there is that spiritual dimension to it that kind of is part, it's kind of related to the political joy and pride. Let's finish off just a little bit of talk about the spiritual nature of the eagle. It's used for therapy to help people with PTSD. It's used in Native American religious rituals.

48:42Rick Steves:It's used when our presidents give a victory speech, as Joe Biden did, talking about on eagle's wings. Can you just talk a little bit about that? Yeah, that's exactly right. I think that our admiration of this bird, our meaning Americans of this bird, has really evolved to become more spiritual to some people. Again, it's a charismatic bird. As you said, it's a patriotic bird. I think it also embodies unification. It's a bird that we can all love and Americans do. But I think we've fallen in love with the species itself to the point that as one cattle rancher who expanded into free-range chicken farming told me he could never hurt a bald eagle because there was just something spiritual about him.

49:29And a number of people told me that too. And I can understand that. I mean, it's a bird of heaven.

49:36Rick Steves:It really is. And it's probably for good reason. Joe Biden decided to refer to Psalm 91 on eagle's wings and thinking of the eagle as like an emissary of the divine to help deliver peace between people. and these days that would mean peace between people of our own country. Jackie Davis, thank you so much for joining us and shining a light on our national bird, the bald eagle. My pleasure.

50:12Travel with Rick Steves is produced by Tim Tatton, Kaz Muralhull, and Donna Bardsley. at Rick Steves Europe in Edmonds, Washington. Andrew Wakeling and Sherry Court upload the shows to our website. Sheila Gerzoff handles affiliate promotions, and our theme music is by Jerry Frank. When you're on a road trip, you can listen to Travel with Rick Steves on one of more than 500 other radio stations. You'll find a list of where and when at ricksteves.com slash radio.

50:39Rick Steves:We'll look for you again next week with more Travel with Rick Steves. My Facebook friends are a fun community of curious travelers, and you're invited to join in. To stow away with me in my work, play, politics, philanthropy, and travels, follow me at Rick Steves on Facebook.