220. Remote Work Roulette: the best (and worst) places we’ve ever worked - Summer Sessions, Episode 2

0:02Hello and welcome to Truth, Lies and Work. What is it we say? The award winning podcast where behavioural science meets workplace culture. We are brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, which is and will always be the audio destination for business professionals. My name is Leanne. I'm a charge occupational psychologist, but as is August, I'm more just... A jelly. A jelly, yeah. My name's Al. I'm a business owner, but in August, I'm doing nothing. We are having most of August off. So this is our summer edition. If you listened last week, you'll know that we are A, recording it outside. B, it is accompanied by an adult beverage.

0:39and see as it's not quite as edited as normal. We tend to just record these and post them. But it's supposed to be like you're on holiday. So come on, guys, let us be on holiday. Yeah, and come with us on holiday. Yeah, come with us on holiday. These are the types of chats we have when we're on holiday. Yeah, let's find out if they're interesting or not. So the idea for today was that we were going to do what we called, what do you call it, remote work roulette? Remote work roulette. The dirty little secret is that most businesses think they know their customers. They have the data, the records, the history, but it's scattered across three teams and four systems.

1:13And in our case, it's about 216 ,000 spreadsheets, which means nobody can actually use it. What you should be doing is using HubSpot because why? HubSpot connects it all. Every interaction, every support ticket, every conversation into one platform every team can work from. So when sales talk to a customer, marketing already narrows the full story. And when you know more, you grow more. Nice. Check out Hopspot.com, the agentic customer platform for growing businesses.

1:45So regular listeners may well know, I've only had two sips. Goodness. It's going well. May well know that Al and I are what kids call digital nomads. What I'm enjoying at the moment, side note, is there's a lot of chat on LinkedIn from Gen Zs and it's like they've just invented it. Right. And it's like, that's cute. Have they got a name for it? No, they call it digital nomads or just nomading. But it's like it's a groundbreaking thing. And of course, it is in their world. So I'm happy to see it and I celebrate it. But yeah, it is fun to look at people kind of bobbing around. But anyway, Alan and I have been nomads since 2017.

2:23And we've traveled to almost 50 countries in that time. Stayed in over 200 Airbnbs and hotels across Europe, Southeast Asia, Australia, New Zealand. so we thought we know quite a lot about remote working we actually have another entire podcast about remote working if you want to listen to that it's called a sideways life very different vibe um no not as many ethical considerations from either of us really so that's what when that's where you get cancelled yeah we'd absolutely get cancelled when people actually find that and connect the two things so we thought we're going to pick out sorry mouth click there how unprofessional me we thought we would we made a little bowl you can hear the bowl with um some little bits of paper in with some places on and we're just going to pick them out and have a little chat about them some will have a lot to say some will have almost nothing to say yeah see how it goes so should we start with number one do you want to pick one out okay oh it's like a raffle what have i got new zealand we spent about a week in new zealand visiting our sister she lives in auckland um beautiful yeah beautiful part of the world i was working quite a lot there i don't think you were as much but when my main client was an australian client and it was cool because it's the first time that has actually a time zone in front of them it's never happened to me before um but really it was just kind of kitchen table vibes we were only there a few days practical considerations for new zealand first of all it is quite an expensive country even compared to like the us and the uk um i think we went out we had like four beers and something to eat and it was about 150 quid for four of us or five of us um and secondly data i saw my backside at the airport because I just come from Southeast Asia where you can go and buy 40 gigabyte for five pounds.

4:03And we got to the airport and Vodafone shop were trying to sell me something stupid like one gigabyte for$50, which is about 30 US dollars, 50. And I was really angry about that. So if you do go to New Zealand, then you'll probably be more Wi-Fi hopping than you will be on 4G because it is expensive, man. Yes, it is. And also, do you know what? I'm not sure New Zealand is a type of place where you want to be working remotely. It's so cool. There's so much to see. And we didn't see much of it because we're on there a week. So, yeah, expensive approach with caution. Great. Okay. So, next one I'm pulling out is Croatia.

4:39We know a lot about Croatia. So, we were in Croatia for probably on and off about three years. Was it only two? Yeah, maybe two. Two. Two and a bit. We did the digital nomad visa. Did we do it twice? We applied for it a second time and left before it came through. Oh, yes, yes. So we did a digital nomad visa, which is essentially, if you don't know, you get a year to live in Croatia. And I think it's good tax breaks as well. 0 % tax. 0 % tax. You get taxed, obviously, if you are in, like, you have to be careful if you're American, because I believe there's something called W-2 or something in America, where basically wherever you are, the American tax jurisdiction will find you and make you pay tax.

5:17But if you're in the UK and you're out of the UK for a year, then in theory, you don't pay any tax at all. This is not financial advice. no it's not um Croatia loved it honestly Croatia is one of those places where if there was a route to permanent residency for third country nationals which is Brits Americans Canadians basically anyone who's not um born in the European Union um because it's fabulous place to be we spent a year in Istria near Pula we spent then probably about six eight months around split we did a lot of whilst we were there um it's wonderful absolutely wonderful it is a little bit more expensive than it used to be when we first went it was really quite cost effective and then they went into schengen adopted the euro things got very expensive overnight but equally it's where you are if you're going to dalmatia so split dubrovnik very expensive islands very expensive if you're heading more towards istria or northern croatia much more affordable yeah there's uh some famous waterfalls in Croatia which are cool we went in the winter when it was all frozen and that was kind of cool we also stayed in an amazing um sort of like homestay sort of like barn thing where um there was where we went down to the kitchen and he was cooking pork and on on the open fire and yeah it was really cool so yeah definitely also our covid summer was in Croatia we spent three almost three months on Brach one of the islands which was just heaven on earth the Dalmatian coast it only the The only rival for me to the Dalmatian coast is potentially Southeast Asia.

6:50Yes. But I'm talking the best bits like Lombok, the gillies. It's the most stunning coastline. You know, in terms of island hopping, it's perfect. The water, I don't know how it's so clean and crystal clear. It's so much fun. I would absolutely recommend Croatia to digital nomads. I would absolutely recommend Croatia in terms of holidays. Just bear in mind that depending where you go, it might be a bit spinny. Yeah, good point. So yes, I think overall in terms of the internet, that was relatively cheap and pretty fast. Even on the islands, it's pretty fast. And yeah, if you are going there for a year, then you probably get yourself a decent apartment there.

7:28We're looking around about sort of 700 or 800 euro for a one bed, two bed, somewhere in split, probably a bit less if you're going to somewhere like Pula. Generally, Istria, which is the bit which is right next to Slovenia, is probably one of the cheapest parts with you've also got the coastline, which is beautiful. so there you go also a good thing about doing the dn visa in croatia is it's quite a good digital in my community yes there's lots of meetups co-working spaces that type of thing so so yeah especially if you're maybe new to traveling around central eastern europe croatia is probably a really nice place to start yeah definitely definitely okay so i'm gonna choose one now so i've pulled out cambodia lee what do you know about cambodia love cambodia we spent about a month in cambodia we did mainly around cm reap awesome place for co-working so many great co-working dedicated co-working space and also just cafes are really well equipped so like every table will have like two power sockets um it's really cost effective as you'd imagine the food is incredible the people are so kind and i think there's a theme that we've noticed traveling is that the countries that have experienced recent hardship um if you don't know i'm sure you do cambodia had awful um awful time and and genocide and and yeah horrible war not so long ago in our experience those places that people are very welcoming very hopeful just excited to see people coming in um i love cambodia i think that's actually one place we're meant to stay two weeks end up staying a month yeah and in terms of internet like we said southeast asia um dead easy what you need to do is when you land just go to any kind of kiosk first of all go up go and research because there's a great thing i can't remember i'll try and put the link in the show notes but there's a great website which essentially takes all of the data options and puts them out it's a wiki um for for uh for prepay so you just go into any kiosk i don't believe you need a passport for that um you do weirdly montenegro but not not in most southeast southeast asian countries buy yourself 20 gigabyte uh that's probably going to be i don't know somewhere around about 10 us dollars and that you know it's fast and fast we're on in the middle of like cm reap was was wasn't remote but still you're getting like 80 gigabyte 80 megabyte down and up so it's really good and it's lovely because it's just so affordable so in terms of kind of your activities you can really really jump into that whether it be the tours or the trips but also just kind of self-care moments so i was getting my nails done for like five dollars or going for a massage for like seven dollars um it's a lovely place to kind of have a bit of a working hybrid holiday i think yeah absolutely check the months you go in because like most of southeast asia there are rainy months and there's also smoky months in some parts of thailand but we'll come on to that but yeah i I think it's definitely somewhere where I would love to go back and work.

10:26Me too. Next one. Austria. We can't say much about Austria. We've not spent much time here. Do you know what we can say about Austria? What? It is the one country in the world that we have driven across in every possible direction. East to west, west to east, up and down, side to side, diagonal. We've spent more time driving across Austria than anywhere else, I think. Yeah. Yeah. And Austria is a cool place. I mean, the Austrians will hate me for saying this, but it's fairly similar to Germany in a lot of ways. I know. A sense of humour different, as Christopher Waltz pointed out. So, yeah, definitely a good place to go.

11:03We can't really tell you much about it because we haven't spent too much time there working, but it's a cool place. Actually, I don't think we spent any time working there. No. I think we spent a long weekend in Vienna, which was cool. And then for Christmas markets. Oh, Vienna. and we did a Christmas market a couple of times there but yeah, not really work there but as you'd imagine Austria to be fairly expensive, good internet great accommodation options Yeah, absolutely Oh and if you are a digital nomad with a car and you're in southern or south east Europe and you're going across perhaps you're going back to the UK it's a really good place Austria's a really good place to stop over because there's some beautiful Christmas markets like Deanne said We went back about two or three years ago.

11:47We hopped back and we took about five days to get back. And we just did the Christmas market tour. So we stopped in some of the most famous Christmas markets in Europe. Vangen? Is that what it's called? Yeah, Vangen. W-A-N-G-E-N. Oh, that was one of the best Christmas markets we've been to. Incredible. Like, they have a special name for it, but it's essentially mac and cheese. Yeah. So good. But yeah, loved it. What else are you saying, Leigh? India. Oh, God. Right. just can preface this because i'm not going to speak highly of it of my experience in india and i'm going to preface this by saying i was so excited to go so excited to go and i got there and it was the biggest culture shock ever and it was also the biggest um what what can i say which is polite digestive shock as well i was extremely ill in india so a little little hack for you i wasn't looking forward to going to india at all in fact the only reason we went is we were in southeast asia and our friends were going to goa for a holiday well they toured around didn't they but we were meeting them in goa um so i wasn't so keen but i absolutely loved it i absolutely loved it and people often ask me like as an introvert why do you like such busy places i think it's because as an introvert busy places you can be completely anonymous and detached and you're one of many nobody's really that doing focused on on you um but i loved it But then I also wonder if, and I'm not saying this is an official hack, I'm not a medical professional, but when we landed, I was full of cold, chest infection type thing.

13:17So I went to a pharmacy just to ask if there's anything they could give me. He ended up giving me an entire course of antibiotics, some really powerful anti-inflammatories and who knows what else. He gave me like four different pills and I was fine. I was fine. So yeah, might be worth looking at. We went to New Delhi, very busy, loved it. Some of the best food I've had in my life. Goa. I'm not sure I'd recommend Goa necessarily, but I'm glad we went. Glad we went, wouldn't go back. Coralla. And Coralla, which was incredible in the south with all the waters and stuff, which we got boats on, which was cool.

13:55In terms to work, it was fine. Internet, I don't remember being too much of a problem. Again, you can afford quite nice accommodation because it is very affordable. So then typically they'll come with little working spaces and things like that. We did stay in a box hotel that caught fire, which was fun. Middle of the night. But yes, so India, yeah, maybe, maybe. I think obviously food aside is a cool place and it's huge. Obviously, we've only been to three places. So our experience was that, yeah, it probably is pretty good for nomading. or working remotely, but you probably don't want to be going to a cafe, I would have thought.

14:38I would have thought you want to be working somewhere at home. Yeah, it's very, very busy, as you'd imagine. So yeah, we tended to work out the hotels that we were staying in. Okay. So let's get my pot of dreams and pull out the next one, which is Slovenia. Slovenia. We spent a lot of time in Slovenia. That was another place we got a lockdown in COVID. We got a lockdown in Lithuania first, and then we went to Slovenia because the rates were low. And then within two weeks, that was shut down. And we were there for six months, I think, in Slovenia. But Slovenia is a very, very cool place. It's kind of like a cross between Croatia and Austria.

15:13Because it does border Austria. So you'll find particularly in the north, well, we were in Maribor, which is very close to the Austrian border. And instead of saying da, which they say yes is in Croatian and a lot of the other Slavic languages, they say ja. There's also a lot of German words there. And it's just a really cool place. if you like wine, oh my goodness, Slovenia is for you. And also go to Maribor, then go to Ljubljana because that's the capital. Cute little city, well, I say little city, it's probably massive, but it's just really compact and lovely to wander around. What were your thoughts?

15:43I think Slovenia is the most underrated country in Europe, and I'm still not entirely sure why it hasn't caught on. I'm not mad about it because I wouldn't want it to be overrun with tourists but it is one of the most beautiful places we've ever been to the people are lovely the food is great because it is this melting pot of like italian croatian german food the wine is incredible marabour has the oldest grapevine in the world which is on the outdoors of their wine museum and on the 11th of november every year they have a wine festival this day is bigger than new year's eve essentially what happens at 11 o 'clock on the 11th of november the wine matures from muscat into wine and they celebrate it as if um i guess yeah like it's it's it's it's new year but like 1999 new year the whole city basically just has an aldea on all the different wines it's like market stores will have all the wineries representing then their new wines and and the most incredible food it's such a party and it's it's it's an absolute bucket list experience that people don't know about yeah 100 in terms of working there there's loads of co-working space it's very very modern um and internet's fast uh accommodation we found was relatively decent very very decent uh very decent and well priced um they've got little they've got aldi they've got spar they've got interspar we don't know the difference still don't know the difference between those two uh and uh yeah it's you just you could be you could be in the us you could be in the uk you could be in australia um it's it's very good so yeah highly recommend it's such a diverse country as well that you can literally like we were we were sat in marabour city center on a cold but sunny day in february and then we drove up to the mountains where there's a ski resort maybe 20 minutes yeah and it was three foot scenario so the diversity of experience you can have in such a small place is incredible and as a nomad i think the beauty of nomading is when you go to places you wouldn't typically go otherwise yeah and slovenia is top of top of the list for me in terms of nomad destinations yeah we're just going before we go into the next one what we did on our first leg of our um of our nomad tour was we call it the second city tour so if we were going to croatia we wouldn't go to zagreb we went to we actually went to Rijka, but we should have gone to Split.

18:10So instead of going to Ljubljana in Slovenia, we went to Maribor, the second city. And that is a really great hack if you are travelling around, because the second cities are often quite a bit more exciting. No. That's not true. I don't mean they're more exciting. The second cities... They're more real. They're more real is the word I'm looking at. You get to live like a local rather than just a tourist in the capital. Yes, absolutely. Is it your turn or mine? My turn. Come on, Lennie. Just excited? You're like a kid at Christmas? Oh, Luxembourg. Luxembourg. We only left three days, were we? We left three nights.

18:42We didn't work. Beautiful. Public transport is free. Fun fact. Completely free. Tram, train, bus, all totally free. Other fun fact is that I think the majority of people who live there are Brazilian or something or Italian. Portuguese. Very big melting pot. Pricey, man. Really, really expensive, but beautiful. definitely stay over for one night don't go there for a month yeah pass pass through enjoy poland is my next is our next choice i'm sorry i chose that before i should have done my little asmr hang on there you go poland right well we spent a bit of time in poland we were in a place called rotslav which we called raw claw before we got there um because it's spelled w-r-o-c-l-a-w Rotslav and it is a cool place loved it loved it we were there in the winter it was like minus 12 at night snow on the ground uh Christmas markets fabulous accommodation really cool little city I'd say it's sort of a city a bit like I'm gonna go with Bristol or not quite as big as Manchester nowhere near as big as London um but that was very cool very cool we also spent a month in gedangst on the north coast one thing i think is a nomad and maybe i'm sure everyone's different but al and i are very much summer people we enjoy being warm but if you're traveling europe in winter january february march there's not many places to be warm so we went the opposite when we did this trip and we're like well let's go cold as cold as we can snuggly fires snow beautiful um so we did rotslav in december and gdansk in february i think fabulous absolutely fabulous the atmosphere the history the tours again the food is wonderful the people are so kind very cost-effective we stayed in a beautiful apartment in gdansk for i think maybe 150 200 pounds a week yeah yeah it was it was really really inexpensive i mean for obviously for short term that's quite that's that's really reasonable um and also fun fact christmas they They tend to not take anything down or the decorations down for Christmas until sort of the end of January.

20:52So if you do enjoy Christmas and you're in the UK or somewhere where they take everything down on the 6th, then go to Poland because they love it. Did you know that the UK's number one management podcast, that's us by the way, and the UK's number one marketing podcast are both on the same podcast network? We actually have a lot in common. We both use behavioural science to help people do better at work. And we both had to wrangle Rory Sutherland on an episode. And two out of three of us are devilishly good looking. And you're not going to say which. Phil, host of Nudge, UK's number one marketing podcast.

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22:00Of course, you'll hear all the stuff you want to hear about how to grow your business by using behavioral science in your marketing. But there's also just some really interesting episodes that will be right up your street. Personally, I enjoyed Can Balsamic Vinegar Make Beer Taste Better? It can. and are we all just status seeking monkeys i am go and listen to nudge wherever you get your podcast but come back yeah come back definitely come because nudge isn't as good as this so come back i'll cut that out keep that in

22:31okay malab i think it's your turn

22:36slovakia how long were you there for it felt like we were there a month weren't we Yeah, a month, yeah. This was on our first, our ever first nomading trip. Yeah. We went to Slovakia. We did actually go to the CAFTA, went to Bratislava, on the recommendation of somebody we know from Bratislava. And we stayed in a small place called Devon, because we also travel with dogs when we travel Europe. So if you are traveling with dogs, there's lots we can tell you about that as well. But particularly in some places you want to be in a city centre because actually there's more stuff for dogs in the city centre of some cities than there is on the outskirts.

23:09Slovakia we were told not so much we stayed on the outskirts in a place called Devon which is right on the Danube stunning oh my gosh um completely just ignored Slovakia isn't it I think in in favor of of kind of check its former other half I think Bratislava does rival Prague yeah i agree and i think again as a non-obvious place to go if you're if you're trying to decide between frog or brasilva i would say go to brasilva 100 again in terms of the prices i would have said half the price of um of of prague and if i remember uh slovakia's euro and prague's krona yes yeah um and fun fact slovakia if you uh it's if you want to say yes you say ano ano like you know like the irish ano okay also what's great about bratoslava it's about an hour train ride to vienna so if you did want to include a trip to austria but not with a price tag stay in bratoslava train over to vienna easily a day trip bratoslava is like an hour to vienna an hour to somewhere else i can't remember exactly where it is but um a lot of people live in bratislava and work in vienna working this other place that i can't think where it is not budapest i can't remember it is maybe it's budapest you can go check on the map yeah okay so the next one france france we've not spent a lot of time in france and in fact to be really brutally honest with you we weren't massive fans of france for a long time were we until until this year yeah Al and I's line was we've never voluntarily been to France because we've been for people's birthdays or or weddings or that type of thing um until this year yeah and so this year we came back from the UK for Christmas uh we came across the channel tunnel um and by the way if you do do that trip and you've got a car just just do the train don't do the boats we tried to save money on the boats it is about twice expensive on the on the tunnel but you just turn up and then you just stay in your car, watch your stories on Netflix, and then you're in France.

25:24Whereas the number of times we've had problems with ferries, so top tip, do pay the extra bit. Although don't pay for flex, which is the way they say you can upgrade and you can, it says you give your priority and all this kind of thing. It's a bit like Ryanair priority, and it doesn't really give you much because if you turn up early on a normal ticket, then you should be on a ticket. Yeah, yeah, exactly. the other great thing about the the shuttle rather than the the euro star the euro star is for passengers like foot passengers it's a normal train the shuttle is you drive onto the train perfect if you travel with dogs because you stay in the car it's 30 minutes and you're straight through whereas with the ferries you're yeah you're looking at at least kind of two to five hours depending on where you're ferrying to and from so if you have an anxious dog like we do it's a much better option absolutely in terms of france we don't we don't know about um internet because we just used our UK sim there.

26:17So everything else seems a little more expensive than, say, neighbouring Germany. So I don't know. Not sure we're the best people to ask about France, to be honest. Well, let's move on. Yeah, the best place that we found was actually kind of the northeast of France. Again, Christmas time. Oh, and Colmar, which is in the southeast on the border of Germany. If you like wine, Colmar is the place you want to go. Okay. Albania. Albania. Well, we were there for about two weeks, were we? Yeah. Maybe three weeks or four weeks because we went to Samil. We drove through from Greece and we came up to Samil first, which is spelled K-S-A-M-I-L.

26:57The first time I ever saw a 500 euro note. Pretty sure the guy was into, I'm sure we say import, export, but a 500 euro note. Allegedly. Allegedly. Yes. I can say it because I haven't said who it is. yeah anyway um samil was interesting um probably a bit more developed than he was when we were there but then we went to stay in near the capital didn't we were there for about two weeks three weeks yes we did duras yeah duras yeah that was really nice the thing i'd say about the south because i i i see the south of albania talked about a lot as being like the new riviera or kind of the place to go and i and i was talking to a friend about this who'd also been to albania I don't really get it because there's such, there's so much development.

27:46You can't really look in any direction without seeing cranes and building sites. And the sea is beautiful, but you just look behind you and you're looking at a construction site. I didn't really get the hype. No. I think there's a few people on Twitter or on Instagram, whatever, who will say, yes you're looking at beautiful pictures of um of albania but it's if you just flip the camera around it would look like you were in i don't know spain in the 1950s when they're still building stuff one thing about about working in albania was he found that back then i'm not sure it's different now but back then an awful lot of power cuts and power surges he was an awful place to work remotely he really was the internet wasn't great like you say the power wasn't great no so So don't take our word for it and say, don't go to Albania.

28:34But do your research first. Find the place. I'm sure in Tirana, in the capital, it's different. But if you're anywhere outside the capital, expect slight issues. The other thing is, talking of issues, if you're driving through Albania, it is the craziest drivers in Europe. Good luck to you. Yes, we've driven through Montenegro and all the Balkan countries. They're craziest drivers ever. You'll literally come around a corner and there'll be a car overtaking a car and then another car overtaking that car. And they'll all be on your side of the road. and one of them will probably be the police. So, yeah, just be a bit careful.

29:04But it is stunning if you were to drive down towards the Greek border. That last bit there, the last 100k, is just stunning. Beautiful. I would say if you're going to Albania, do it as a holiday. Great. I don't think it's a nomad destination. I agree. Okay. So, we're going to do a quickfire round. Because we are currently on 27 minutes. Romania. Always recommend it would never go back. Had the best time there. Really great. Wouldn't go back. A couple of things about Romania. Number one, if you are able to hire a car and fly into, say, Budapest, Bubu Cares, sorry, and hire a car, do that. Top gear.

29:45Transfegarian Highway. Do that. It is stunning. You also then go up to Brasov and Sigishwera. Transylvania. Transylvania. Those are the most amazing places. In terms of working, we used the Wi-Fi and it was okay. It was okay. Okay. But, and it's, yeah, it's challenging. Everything seems to be a bit of a challenge. You've got to go out to the supermarket, it's a bit of a challenge. But if you do know any kind of Italian or Spanish, then it's another romantic language, which is strange for Eastern Europe. So, it'll be a few words you recognise. Yeah, go on holiday there. Gibraltar. Never lived there.

30:18Got married there. Visited a lot. Morrison's never lived there, never worked there. No comment. Well, to be fair, we lived maybe about a half an hour from Gibraltar in southern Spain for about five years. And so we used to drive down to Gibraltar into a supermarket called Morrison's because they had the tiger bread. They had all the stuff we were missing from home and then drive back. So yeah, it's definitely worth a go. But we've not worked there and it's expensive accommodation. At the time we were there, very dated accommodation. And yeah, it's not someone we necessarily recommend. Talking of someone we'd not necessarily recommend, Now, this place is another beautiful place for holidays.

31:00It is known by a number of different names. It is now known as North Macedonia or North Macedonia. But back in the day, it was called the former Yugoslavic Republic of North Macedonia. Catchy. We went to now, let me see, Skopje, the capital. Very cool. Very crazy. Very strange. Honestly, the statues are still wrapped in plastic because they've just come out. the just come off the back of the van it's made to look like it's like 100 years old and it's about eight years old um also there's a big bridge that takes you across into the um the old town the turkish quarter that is it's just weird because you go from the new town to the old town and it is almost completely dry if you like kebabs as in dry as in no alcohol if you like kebabs oh my god you're gonna love it but don't expect a beer there good place for dogs actually we found a really good like doggy daycare in scopia um that peanut went to that was really good we also spent some time in lake ocarid gorgeous yeah highly recommend lake ocarid recommend macedonia to be honest i really enjoyed it i thought it was a cool quirky little place don't remember having any issues in terms of working don't don't remember much about it either way which probably meant it was fine Yeah, exactly.

32:15Okay, so I'm going to pull out Myanmar. Oh, Myanmar. This was, if you're a bit older, you might know it was Burma, Myanmar. One of the most incredible experiences of our life there. And now you can't go. Well, you can, but it's a bit tasty. I don't think you can actually. It's under kind of military rule at the moment. It isn't after a coup. Yeah, I almost don't want to talk about it because there's really little point because it's so sad that we can't go anymore. But genuinely, one of the most stunning, beautiful places and it's heartbreaking what's happening there. So yeah, hopefully that'll get figured out because one of the most, probably the most incredible place I've ever been.

32:58And if you go to, if it does open up again, try and get to Napoli. It's not spelt the same way as the Italian way, but try to get to Napoli because it is a beautiful beach resort and it's just incredible. Anyway, moving on. Italy. Talking Napoli. Italy. We've done a fair bit in the north. Yeah. Fabulous. There's a place about an hour from Venice that is now going to be our regular stop every year. We were there for a week or 10 days this year. Stunning. Gorgeous. You know Italy. The food's great. There's loads to do. There's loads to see. we've done Luca, we did Pisa, don't go to Sicily in August is the only advice I'd give you about Italy.

33:40Wouldn't that enjoy? Yeah, quick thing about Sicily is you go, oh, well, what? Because it's hot. Well, yes, but if you get a place with air conditioning, which our very first place wasn't, we hired a place for a month, lasted four days, then went and rented somewhere else because the landlord was weird for a start. But also there was no insulation on it and no air conditioning. Genuinely, we used the meat thermometer in our kitchen and it was 37 degrees in the kitchen. um so no absolutely can't work there but also the other thing is there's so many festivals on that the church bells go continuously and continuously so uh for august so going in august is beautiful if you're sitting there out there with your lovely your lovely aperol and you're looking at the church bells listening to church bells if you're trying to be on a zoom call with someone no don't go to sicily italy is a good place for nomads to consider because it's one of the few places that you can get long-term residency as a third country national without too much hard work and taxes to do it.

34:34So if you're looking to extend your nomadic venture into years, then Italy is a really good option for that to do. Take a look. Just a quick point on that. You have to apply when you're outside of Italy, as opposed to most of the other digital nomads where you can arrive and then apply for nomadacy. But you can't do that. Okay, so the next one I pulled out is Greece. Can't really talk too much about Greece. You've only spent a few days in Greece, but stunning. Yeah, passing through and holiday. We weren't working. Yeah. So Greece, I really don't think we should talk about it because we've not worked there.

35:04We've only just relaxed there. Yeah. But it is another place that does do additional nomad visa of sorts. So again, if you're going to extend, Greece is another one to look at. Absolutely. So my replacement there is Spain. Spain, you beautiful, beautiful, beautiful bitch. We would live in Spain if we could. Heartbeat. Let's go now. Yeah. The only reason we don't is that they currently tax worldwide wealth, which means that it's not feasible for us right now. Perhaps that will change. But yeah, and income tax is like in Andalus here, it's 50%. Then also, if you want to be a self-employed, you have to pay€250 a month each before you even make any money, which is why most people go to Spain and don't tell anyone they're working in Spain.