245. How to dress for success: The surprising psychology of workwear, with Style Coach, Angela Foster

22:17Leanne:Okay. And is that balance that, I guess, that hourglass figure? Is that what we mean by balance? Yes. And it doesn't even mean, it doesn't necessarily mean hourglass from the standpoint of, it doesn't have to be a super defined waist or anything like that. Do you know what I mean? What the most pleasing appearance is just when it looks like everything is working together. Now, there are absolutely examples, Kim Kardashian being one of them, who doesn't care what the body shape is. She's going to accentuate what she wants to accentuate. And that's amazing for women who are so beautifully confident.

22:55Not everybody is that incredibly confident. it's almost like you know how when you were learning how to drive and they were saying like put your hands at nine and three ten and two i can't even remember what it was that's how much i paid attention but it gave you some parameters to start with like don't follow the car ahead of you too close make sure you give yourself five seconds to stop at a stop sign whatever the situation is it's kind of like that when you're learning how to dress for your body shape you have some parameters and then once you're super confident with that you can break all the rules that you want to.

23:26Leanne:I always like to play devil's avocado when chatting to guests or covering things on the podcast. And it's that I can hear some voices from women in my head going, what are you talking about? It doesn't matter what you wear. It doesn't matter what you look like. Hourglass figures, what rubbish. It's all about confidence. And if there's anyone out there listening and going, this is making me feel uncomfortable. This feels like we're objectifying women's bodies in the workplace. What do you say to that? I love that. And I would love to say that everybody you meet is such an elevated, in such an elevated mental state that they're not judging us.

24:06But we know that they're a hundred percent judging us.

24:09Leanne:It doesn't matter. They're not trying to be mean. They're not trying to come up with reasons to hate us or think, you know, but they're not, it's just human nature. And at this point, I only can accomplish so many things and changing human nature at this point in my life is probably not one of them. So we can absolutely say, it's not fair. You should appreciate me because of my big fat brain and how brilliant I am and all of that. And that's amazing. And if you wanna, that's great. When you're talking about growing your career or building your business and all of that, we have to deal with reality.

24:39And at this point in our evolution, that's reality. So yes. And to your point, the other thing, objectifying. So, I mean, I guess you could look at it like when you feel confident in your outfit and you're accentuating your favorite feature, are you objectifying yourself? I mean, I've never thought about it like that before. But I do know how I show up when I love my outfit. And I also know how I show up when my makeup's a mess, my hair's, well, frizzy, and all of that. And it's two different people. Do you know what I mean? Like it's distracting when I don't feel good. And I don't think I'm the only one that's like that.

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26:21Leanne:So you've convinced me I need to create some kind of brand style that's going to reflect my brand. Where do I start? I remember working with a client once who I was doing some career coaching with who was known as like the sneaker guy or like the sneaker leader because he'd have really cool sneakers that he'd wear along with quite a sharp suit or, you know, something like that. Do I need that? Do I need a thing? Do I need a bit? So you're just full of amazing questions. So I love this one. So say that you are, you said he was a career coach. I was, I was coaching him. He was a senior leader. Yeah.

27:02Leanne:He was a senior leader. Okay. So, okay. So let's just, well, let's just use the career coach example because I like that one. So say you're on LinkedIn and you're like, you kind of consider it a career coach, but you haven't made the decision yet. You don't love all of that. So you're scrolling through LinkedIn and you see a post from Leanne. Oh, she's a career coach. You won't remember. I like, I won't remember your name. And then I see another career coach and another career. And you know how they're like, all of a sudden their career coaches are coming out of the walls. Then I see another post from you.

27:34And I don't, I probably don't remember your company. I definitely don't remember your name at this point, but you're the girl with the loopy curls that always wear super smart glasses. So, and then I see you the third time and I'm like, oh my God, this girl is everywhere. Every time I turn around, she must be an amazing career coach. So it takes down that when you have a signature, like his sneakers, your glasses, you know, whatever that signature is, it takes down that no like and trust factor from whatever it is today because they say it's like, now I have to see you 19 times before I remember your name or whatever.

28:10It scrunches that down until that no like and trust factor is a lot faster and you have instant credibility because I'm looking at you going, oh my gosh, she has like, and I'm maybe not thinking this consciously, but I'm thinking like she really has it pinned down. Like I bet she could help me. So, yes, we call it a signature. It's typically an accessory. It can be, I have a client, she wears red lipstick no matter what she's doing, everywhere. Like red is her jam. Red lipstick, red is, you know, like she has red glasses, she has red earrings, but she's always like, it's a bold red statement. I have another one who wears white blouses all the time.

28:50Like that's her thing. She's in a very colorful industry. So that really makes her stand out when everybody else is trying to be super bright and loud and all that.

28:57Leanne:So what signature would you recommend for a podcaster who spent most of her time behind a microphone and is only now starting to show her face to the world? Well, congratulations. You're just like what we were talking about, like stepping up the visibility. Yes, that is. And when we started that whole like Zoom work from home thing, that definitely became a thing, right? Because we had to keep the party on top because otherwise, like I used to wear like the craziest, highest heel platform shoes all the time. Well, then nobody can see them. So what difference does it make? Like what a wasted effort.

29:30So you definitely want to keep it like from the boobs up, you know, to the top. You could do anything you could do. I do love the smart glasses idea because you are a brainiac. So I like how that ties into like your brand and your style and all of that. You could also do fun earrings. You could do something different with your hair like wear it in a very specific style consistently so it becomes like your thing um it is it is tougher though when it's like from here i can see your necklace a little bit if you moved your microphone a little bit you could also do some fun necklaces like statement so yeah yes you could also do something fun with your headphones

30:13Leanne:ah like um like people do with bags like when they they what's it called when you don't bejewel them don't bejewel them no they have like little charms that was that weird maybe a little bit i was thinking more of a color but yeah okay yeah yep yep see yeah oh bedazzle i i knew when i said bedazzle i'm like that's not right bedazzle don't yeah no don't do that but oh I see so I like I always that's the girl with the yellow headphones kind of thing yes exactly exactly I love it and with that in mind where does a line go between having like a signature and just becoming a distraction oh right oh that is such a great question so well number one if it's distracting to you it's going to be distracting to everybody else right because you and I do so much work you know via video and zoom and that type of thing anything that is too loud, you fiddle with it.

31:12That's one of the reasons I started wearing my hair up all the time. My VA said, if you do one more video where you're flicking your hair around, but it was always in my face. So I was like, I can't help it. It's just always in my face. So hence the, so now I always have it pulled back. So I don't mess with it. So in answer to your question, if it, if it bothers you, it's going to bother everybody watching. Um, but yeah, nothing that makes too much noise or is like you're fiddling with it. I think those are the two big things. And don't forget, you always have your backdrop to help reinforce whatever you're doing.

31:43Leanne:Let's talk about that because when, before we start recording, I said, I love your backdrop. Is that, I mean, I know Al would definitely say this is a thing because he obsesses over our backdrop and I kind of get it. But from an expert in style, in design, how much impact does a background have on a personal brand? Yes. So I think I personally feel like it has a ton. When we first started the whole Zoom thing, I looked like I was in prison. Like I had, there was nothing. No, I mean, like legit. People were like, where are you at? I'm like, I'm in my office. Why? They're like, you look like you're in prison.

32:23So there's that happy medium, right? You want it to reinforce your brand while not being distracting. you know you see those people and they're usually like news get guests on news programs and they I don't know if they just want you to think they're super duper smart but they are sitting in front of floor to ceiling bookshelves with books crammed on them and I find it so distracting I'm like why are those books crooked why don't they have them like you know alphabet like it's so distracting that could just be me and my OCD. But anyways, you want it to have that happy medium between like not like reinforcing what your brand is and the colors and all of that while not distracting from the message that you're sending.

33:09And I think it's best to start with a blank wall like I did and then just gradually add to it because all of a sudden it can be too much, right? So yes, but yeah, no, I think background is incredibly important. I have a client, she's an interior decorator. and she has the most gorgeous backdrop I've ever seen in my life. And it's completely understated, but you can just tell she has that beautiful design eye because of the way she has a console table behind her. And she just has, I think maybe like three vases and then like one knacky thing. But the way it's set up, like the first time I met her, I was like, that's gorgeous.

33:45I can tell that you really understand what you're doing. Wasn't because it was a lot, but it was because it was so well done and reinforcing what she did for a living.

33:52Leanne:And I have so much admiration for people who have the as you do have the eye for that that level of style and and it just when it comes together it just looks so nice did you say it breeds trust and confidence in in somebody else's ability particularly something like interior design when it's tied literally tied to the what they do it's a live example isn't it of what the what they're gonna do yes absolutely if she'd peeling wallpaper on the back I don't know that I would have trusted her from the beginning so much I want to talk about different demographics. We focused on women so far. I mean, how do, and I know you work primarily with women, but how do men experience workplace dress and the expectations attached to that?

34:35Leanne:Is it different? It is a little bit. In fact, there was a study that was done, and I think it was from one of those like career website things, but it said that women who were perceived as being well-dressed and put together made 12 % more money than their counterparts who were not perceived the same way. For men, and this is what I thought was surprising in answer to your question, what I thought was surprising for men, it was even worse. It was like the men who were perceived just put together were they make 15 to 17 % more money. So we talk about the pay inequality and all of that. But if you're a guy, I would be worried about pay inequality.

35:16Like is that guy because he has like his shirt is pressed? Does is he making 17 % more than me? Do you mean like that would be I would have a question about that. But the thing about it was is it wasn't like the the people that they did that they were super stylish and always look like, you know, like glamorous, you know, Instagram influencers. It wasn't like that at all. It was really very simple. Like their clothes fit well. They were tailored. Their hair was clean. For women, they had a minimal amount of makeup on. It wasn't like they were asking us to jump through hoops for this, right? It was actually very easy to do.

35:49So, I mean, and for guys, I think the tailoring and the pressing are even more important because they do have so many fewer options than we do. So if they come in with a wrinkled shirt and grubby jeans, like you're like, really? Come on now. You couldn't throw it in the dryer first?

36:05Leanne:I can't believe that really, that pay difference just in terms of how you, wow. I know. There is another fun thing, and this kind of goes back to the signature, but then it also talks about guys too. And there was a, it always makes me think of Mark Zuckerberg when I talk about, but it's called the red sneaker effect. and there was two different situations and I'm going to probably smush them into one big situation but there were like 10 or 12 guys and they were at a black tie event and they were clearly a group but one of the guys had a red bow tie on instead of the black bow tie that everybody else in his group had on every and then they asked a panel of people who's the guy that's in charge?

36:52Who's the boss, the owner, whatever. And they all said universally, the guy with the red bow tie on. So it goes back to when you, it doesn't have to be huge. Like the signature, like we were talking about, it doesn't have to be huge. It can be something very subtle. And then there was some other guy who did actually wear red sneakers. And you know what I mean? And it proved the same point that when you do just something slightly different, the perception of your standing in a group or in a company or whatever is elevated in the viewer's mind.

37:24Leanne:It's so interesting, isn't it? How these worlds collide. And I want to ask you about other conversations that we've seen happening over the last few years, thankfully happening. I think in particularly in terms of the black community and women in the black community who there's been lots of debates and discussion around natural hair in the workplace and how whether it's that professional or appropriate. I would love your take on that in terms of, I guess, if you know of any research or in terms of kind of the perception of it, but also in terms of how employers should be approaching differences, gender differences, ethnicity differences in terms of dress policy in the workplace.

38:08So I think this is so fascinating for so many reasons. So because I, you know, I work with business owners and people who have teams and all of that. And one of the things that puts them into an incredibly difficult situation, and when, you know, we're on the initial call and we're talking about like, we're going to teach a, you know, an image workshop for your team. What does that look like? Blah, blah, blah. And I say to them, talk to me about your written dress code policy. two things happen. Number one, it's from a bajillion years ago and it hasn't been updated since you had to wear hose and heels.

38:46Like that's how old it is. Or they don't have anything at all written down. So apparently, I don't know, but employees are just supposed to like magically read your mind as to how you want them to show up, which is really unfair because, you know what I mean? Like all then all you have to do is like look at other people and say, Well, I hope I'm getting this right. Well, again, it goes back to you want your boss to be consistent and you want to know what to expect. Well, that's putting them into an incredibly unfair position. The whole professional thing, I think when we're talking about different ethnicities, different backgrounds, different cultures and all of that, there's different feelings on the word professional, right?

39:34Some people don't have a thought about it. Some people, it's definitely a trigger. And specifically, you don't look professional. Well, that is not any kind of coaching. And you would know this better than I being an HR expert, but like not professional. I'm sorry, you're going to have to be specific with me on that. Like, what does that look like? And the more you can lay it out for your team, well, ideally during the interview process or during the onboarding or all of that, you're doing everybody a favor because nobody, There's not a boss, an owner anywhere on this planet that wants to have a dress code conversation.

40:13It's the most uncomfortable, well, there's probably more, but it's super uncomfortable to have to talk to somebody about what they're wearing, how they show up and all of that. So do yourself a favor, do your team a favor, lay it out, be very clear. I feel like the interview, like towards the end of the interview process is the best place because if there is an issue or that's gonna be a problem for your potential new hire, It's only fair to let them know before they say yes.

40:40Leanne:Are there any kind of absolute no-nos in terms of a quote-unquote professional dress code? Anything you like? That's a no, that's a no, that's a no, that's a no. There's so many different environments. There's so many different, you know, companies and organizations and all of that. I would love to say anything goes. Just depends on the environment. Depends on the culture. depends. I do feel though that kind of goes back to like the objectifying women thing. As women, we do need to think about who is our customer, whether it's our boss or whether it's an actual customer. And think about if I would wear it to the club, if the skirt's so short, if the neckline is so low that I would wear it to a club or I'd wear it out on a date with my guy, is it appropriate for work?

41:30And is it really sending the message about you and your work product that you want it to?

41:34Leanne:I suppose it's whether it's, as you said earlier, it's distracting from what you're there to do in terms of task or conversation or interaction. If it's distracting from that, whether that be too much skin or, you know, hair in your face or a ruffled shirt, then if it's a distraction, then it's not great. Yes. It's funny because so, and this is actually a career coach and we're connected on LinkedIn and she'll do these videos where, and I know it's like, oh, I just got done at the gym. And I'm like, oh my gosh, that's so lovely. I haven't seen the inside of a gym in 10 years, but so I know that like, like the sports bra thing is designed to make it look like, like, hey, I'm active.

42:19I'm on top of it, blah, blah, blah. The boobage though. I just, you know, and then she brags about how much she charges and I just think it's just hard for me to find that real like I don't want to say it's not true I just have a hard time believing that people are going to spend that much money when you come like sweaty hot with like so much going on right here so but that's me and my personal judgment but do it is a designer clothes important the designer

42:47Leanne:clothes look smarter does it give an impression above shopping at the high street some Some brands and designers can be very important to some women. And if that's important to you, I have zero judgment about that. I do think you get to a point, though, in your life where you feel confident enough in how you look, what you wear, what your closet looks like, what you do for a living and you have a level of happiness that you don't feel that's so necessary. Do my clients buy designers? Sometimes if they like it, I don't feel like they're buying it just because of the brand though. So I think you get to a certain point where it's more important how I feel in something versus, you know, advertising for Louis Vuitton.

43:34Leanne:And if I was looking to build quite a versatile wardrobe with, as you said, those signature pieces, because that does seem to be a trend, doesn't it? Whether, you know, environmental or sustainability or even just, you know, cost of living, fast fashion seems like it's had its day. Is there any tips you'd give to people who want to, how to pick those key pieces for a wardrobe? One of the things that makes it that whole, I have nothing to wear thing that really reinforces that is a lack of staples. When you don't have enough layering pieces that, oh my gosh, it's cold outside, I need a cardigan or I need a blazer to throw over it.

44:13When you don't have enough of those pieces, all of a sudden getting dressed becomes a lot more difficult. So, and that's one of the things, it's not a sexy thing. Like, it's not like, oh really? Like you think we need like basics and essentials? Well, yes. It's not to say that that has to be your entire closet, but you need to have enough that when it gets cold, when it gets hot and all of that, you can tweak your favorite pieces enough to be weather appropriate, situationally appropriate and all of that. So that's the first thing. And like I said, it's not sexy. So, and especially for petites, it can be tough to find things that fit that well, that, you know, you can have like a button down blouse in them, you know, all the most important colors.

44:56So there's that. The other thing is, is that my clients who come to me that are struggling the most, their closet looks like a rainbow and they have every color on the planet. They love how colorful they are. And I think that's amazing. And it makes mixing and matching and pulling together an outfit that feels cohesive a lot more challenging, right? Because if you have, you know, unless you're like rainbow bright, but do you know what I mean? Because nothing can go. And so if that black pencil skirt has a stain on it, then I'm stuck because, you know, the only other thing I have is an orange pencil skirt.

45:35So having those like, you know, some sort of a cohesive color theme, a good rule of thumb is if you have a color palette, whether it be like black, white and gray or navy khaki and white or whatever that is, if 80 ish percent of your closet falls into that color palette, you're going to have a lot more mixing and matching opportunities than somebody who has a rainbow closet.

45:58Leanne:so and on the flip side of that if somebody maybe has I don't can't imagine who I'm talking about Angela but if somebody might have a wardrobe that say is mainly black white gray beige um with the odd you know there might be a bit of green in there olive green from time to time um should should I feel pressure to inject color in my wardrobe or are you like you know what Leanne you do you if that's your thing or am I going to blend into the background how much do I need to thing to worry about this. No, you be you. There is not a thing wrong with black, white, gray, and beige. Not a thing. Unless you're bored.

46:34Unless you walk into your closet and you're like, this is not fun because I feel like a monochromatic painting. If that, then absolutely, let's spark, you know, like let's inject some, you know, pops of color. That's such an easy thing to do. But no, don't feel any pressure. Don't feel, this is the other thing. People are like, oh, oh, I feel like I should wear like a floral something. It's spring. Or I feel like I should like inject some prints. Do you like prints? If you do, fantastic. If you don't, who cares? Like, no. And that's one of the things when you become confident in your personal style, it's so much easier to walk away from things, especially trends that you're like, nope, not gonna work on me.

47:10I just flat out don't like it. Not gonna participate. There's plenty of other trends this season that I can take part in if I want to. So no, don't feel pressured unless you're bored. The best compliment I can get is when my clients say to me, it is so much fun getting up and getting dressed in the morning. I have so much fun. That's the best thing they can say to me because I know it's fun because they like what's in their closet and they know it makes them look good.

47:35Leanne:I mean, I can't say I'm at, maybe I need to talk to you about your service, Angela, because I can't say I'm at a point where I open my closet and I'm excited to get dressed, but I do have certain pieces or certain things that I wear and I feel great in and I look forward to the day I can wear it again because it's been long enough since the last time I wore it. so yeah I can see how that would just yeah elevate your mood how does everything we've talked talked about fit into your spark method so we've talked about a lot the first one is body shape the second one is the perfect pant formula because you know like pants are troublesome for short girls they're come up to your boobs or they're dragging on the floor and all of that so there's a simple three-part formula that we put together so you can always find pants that fit you.

48:20Then we talk about accessories. So accessories can either go to your signature accessory, like we're talking about, your headphones. I'm going to keep slipping that in there. So afterwards, you're like, yes, I want to go look for a pair. But it can also be what accessories can accentuate your favorite feature. Then we talk about refining your style. So that's where the three adjectives come in and also what colors look best on your skin tone. Now, we are not the color police around here. I am not going to tell somebody not to wear a color that happens to be their favorite because it's not on their ideal color palette, but it does help sometimes to fix an outfit that's not working.

49:03When you put something on, whether you're in a store or whether you actually own it, you're like, gosh, what is this? I just don't feel as good in this. I don't feel like my skin is as smooth and pretty looking or whatever, you'll know. And I think a lot of times knowing how to fix an outfit that's like on the fence is as powerful as just being able to pick out the right stuff, right? So that's refining the style. And then the last step is doing, keeping your closet clean. So purging the items that don't work, you know, filling in the blanks, knowing what to buy, not about just shopping without a purpose.

49:41You need to have a list. You need to know why, you know, like why am I, when I get this perfect black belt, what does that mean that I'm going to have all these other options or it's going to make this outfit look more polished and that type of thing. I think one of the things that's so harmful to a woman's self-esteem is when she walks into her closet and she's like, nope, makes my butt look big. Nope, my hips, nope, shows off my stomach. Nope, nope, nope. And you just filled your mind with all this garbage about how your body is wrong and how and all of that like how are you supposed to leave the house and feel amazing and go crush your goals like I mean I can't do that I can't imagine there's a ton of women out there so we want to get rid of the items that aren't working put you know like like slowly add items that will work and will make make it fun to get dressed in the morning

50:29Leanne:what I love about that and just it sounds like there's a there's a there's a methodology there's some guideline anchor points to follow. But equally, what you're saying is don't get hung up on the trains. Yeah, color theory is great, but it's not, you know, you don't have to be a slave to it. You can have fun with it. It's about feeling good. It sounds as though you found a balance between this is what we can do to make you feel great whilst also being an individual and true to yourself, authentic. Oh, I love that. I'm totally going to take that snippet and put it on my website. Please do. thank you I hope so I hope so I just you know so many women are like I I'm however old I'm 40 years old and I haven't found out my style and I don't know how to shop and I don't know what to wear and all of that and then they get to that point where oh I just wasn't born with a style gene like there's a gene there's an extra chromosome somewhere that some women have and some women don't and I don't have it so I'm just stuck feeling frumpy or not stylish or whatever and that's not the case at all.

51:33I really look at style is it really is. It's a science. And there's lots of women who are going to like people, you know, stylists who are going to make it sound super complicated, but it's not. It's really not.

51:46Leanne:Is there one thing that anyone could do today to maybe start to, or I guess a starting book, because like you said, we've talked about so much stuff and so much, so much exciting stuff that I instantly want to get onto Pinterest and go shopping. But if they buy a bank account, where should I start? Okay, don't shop. That is going to be the key takeaway for the listeners. Don't buy another thing. Don't purge anything until you have a plan. Because that's what got us into the situation we're in right now with a closet packed of 163 items, which we wear 10 % of. And we end up wearing the same thing over and over and over again.

52:26So don't shop until you have a strategy, whether that's my strategy, Leanne's strategy, a strategy you got from someone. Do you know what I mean? But have a plan because just to your point, just spending money on more stuff is not, is rarely the answer. Rarely the answer. As many of my clients who've said, oh my gosh, I don't have anything to wear. Not one of them have they shown me their closet and it literally be empty. Like there's stuff, there's stuff in there.

52:51Leanne:That might not be the right stuff. But until we know what that is, just buying more wrong stuff isn't helpful. And honestly, I could talk to you. I can't believe the hour is gone. I could talk to you for another hour. It's so interesting. I have one question that I would like to think there's many people out there that are burning to ask a stylist. What does dressy casual mean? Is that the worst? That is the blooming worst. Not to get off topic. A client, we were having a coaching session and I have retainer clients and we meet once a month and we look at, you know, like we map out their outfits for the month.

53:28Leanne:She got an invitation to a wedding and it literally said cocktail casual. I'm like, that's like, that's like an, well, number one oxymoron, I think, jumbo shrimp. Is that what it is? Yes. I don't even know what that means. And nobody else does either. Stop coming up with things that, do you know what I mean, like don't mean anything. But in answer to your question, and this is, again, it goes back to not having something written down, not having specific expectations. That whole, you know, like dressy casual, business casual, all those like buzzwords that people have pulled out, whoever the leader is, they need to be very specific as to what that means.

54:10Does that mean ripped up jeans? Does it mean no denim, only khakis? Does it mean, you know, because it can mean a bajillion different things. So do everybody in your atmosphere a favor and be specific about it. Because you and I both know, like we work with different, a lot of different, in a lot of different situations with different organizations. Business casual does not mean the same thing to everybody. So please do your team a favor and be clear.

54:38Leanne:Angela, thank you so much. For our listeners, I'm sure there's loads of them who want to find out more about you, your services, how to get in touch, where should they go? Absolutely. So I have a gift for your listeners. It's a body shape quiz so they can get started knowing the styles and silhouettes that flatter their shape the best. They can go to AngelaFoster.co forward slash Leanne and they'll get thrown right into the quiz with a personalized video afterwards with recommendations and that type of thing. That sounds so cool. I'm listening to all my friends as well. Angela, thank you so much.

55:13Leanne:It's been such a joy and such an interesting and light conversation. It can sometimes be a bit tricky and triggering talking about this type of thing but you've made it really fun and line accessible and and for everybody so thank you so much so much for that um i hope we have you again on on the show see oh i would love that and thank you so much for having me it has been the most fun hour of the day that was the amazing angela foster all the links are in the show notes so you'll be able to go and check out what she's doing like the answers loads of stuff on her website which is a really good resources and stuff which can help you to look to work out exactly what you should be wearing to your next well your next meeting your next work event basically anything really basically anything follow her on linkedin as well she's always popping up in the comment sections offering some offering some free advice her website angelastylecoach.com as well worth checking out huge thanks to angela foster generally one of one of my favorite guests that we've we've had on the show um thanks for bearing with us while we've uh been on holiday and we practice what we preach and we probably are thinking about you actually because we do our best podcast thinking when we're holiday we'll be back soon right so we'll see you next tuesday bye actually can't say that word we will see you on tuesday bye