274. Is this the internet’s most unsettling AI story? PLUS! Hiring Gen-Alpha, Career Destiny and the Truth About 'Matrescence'

21:12Lee, what else have you seen this week? I'm sorry, I've really, really taken over the news roundup with this. I'm just fascinated.

21:17Leanne Hughes:It's really interesting and frightening what they're capable of. Well, let's go into something that's hopefully less frightening and more interesting. What have you seen? The biggest workplace problem in 2026 has been named. Now I think it's AI. Now I'm not sure. But no, it's been named as managers. Shock, horror, oh my gosh, I had no idea that was coming. Wow. That sarcasm. So yes, this is the headline coming out of a major new report from the Society for Human Resource Management, basically the CIPD of the States. So according to SHRM's 2026 State of the Workplace report, ineffective leadership and management has overtaken pay, workload and burnout as a number one concern for employers heading into the new year.

22:04Leanne Hughes:Research is based on nearly 2 ,000 HR leaders and executives and just over 2 ,000 workers. And the message was pretty consistent across both groups. So everybody thinks this is a problem. Expectations at work have basically gone up and leadership capability isn't keeping pace. So 70 is some of the kind of headline stats. 72 % of HR leaders say employees are now demanding more from their employers than they were before. and where organisations are seen as failing to meet those needs, the consequences are pretty painful. So if workplaces are rated as ineffective, job satisfaction drops to 44%. Wow.

22:42Leanne Hughes:In organisations seen as effective at meeting employee needs, it jumps to 91%. That's quite the jump. Quite the jump. So more than half of people in the ineffective group say they expect to leave their job within the next year. Oh my goodness. Yeah, more than half. Yeah. They're going to go and become Claudebot consultants. Yeah. So the leadership gap has been on HR's radar for a while, as it has mine and many occupational psychologists in the world. The companion report on priorities, so basically HR priorities, also found that leadership development is a top focus for chief HR officers for the second year of running.

23:22Leanne Hughes:So they were going on about this in 2025 as well. Employee experience and workplace culture are also climbing that list. in terms of the wider context what has been kind of flagged is economic uncertainty and how it is now actually overtaken wage inflation as leaders biggest worry so leaders are kind of freaking out because everything's just kind of well you've got ai bots kind of going rogue haven't you um 92 % of organizations expect ai to become more deeply embedded in how work gets done most don't see it as a replacement for people but it's something that people kind of need to be careful about and other data shown that burnout in terms of the third issue is still widespread.

24:04Leanne Hughes:And it kind of feels all intertwined, doesn't it? We're freaking out about economic uncertainty. We're freaking out about how we're going to get AI to integrate into work. And it's causing burnout. All the while, managers have no freaking idea what they're doing. So, yes, the world is on fire. Any sort of like takeaways for anyone listening who's a bit concerned about this? Train your managers. There you go. Get that on a t-shirt. Shall we go to a break, love? Yes, please. Okay, so after this break, we've got my favourite. I always say it's my favourite time of the week is the workplace surgery, but I'm really enjoying this truth or lie at the moment.

24:36That's basically where Leanne will go. Well, I'll put to Leanne like, okay, here's a question. This is what I've heard. Is it true or is it lie? And we'll find out after the break. See you in a second. Billion Dollar Moves, hosted by Sarah Chen Spellings, is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals.

24:51Leanne Hughes:Join venture capitalist and strategist Sarah Chen Spellings as she asks the hard questions and learns through the triumphs, failures and hard lessons of the creme de la creme so you too can make billion dollar moves in venture, in business and in life. Maybe start with episode 124 where you're going to hear how industry giants from Canva to YouTube define leadership. Listen to Billion Dollar Moves wherever you get your podcasts.

25:19Okay, welcome back. This is time for Truth or Lie. This is our weekly myth-busting segment where you take a big psychological claim and ask, is it true or is it a lie? Now, this one is firmly in the dad joke end of the internet. It's nominative determinism. Am I saying that right, Lee? Yes. You know the kind of thing. A lawyer called Sue Yu, a dentist called Dr. Payne. I'm reading the notes that Leanne's passed me here with these names. A plumber called Dwayne Piper. Every time one pops up, someone says, well, that was inevitable. It obviously feels like the universe is having some kind of sense of humor.

25:52once you notice it starts everywhere one of my biology books was all about um dissection was by lm slaughter when i was at school so today's question is does your name influence the kind

26:03Leanne Hughes:of job you end up doing lee schoolers nominative determinism it's a really dry name for a term that's actually quite cool and interesting isn't it yeah so it's basically the theory that people are psychologically predisposed to pursue certain occupations or interests resemble or evoke their names in some way so basically it's not that it's like destiny is written in the stars type thing but it's psychological so my name is going to subtly pull me towards certain things that seem to fit so when i was researching this i fell down a rabbit hole that was so much fun i found a list of real people with perfectly matched names al you might have heard of some of these others you might not don't look through the list if you're looking at the notes i'm not i'm not good uh the first one Usain Bolt.

26:50Of course yeah. Last sprinter in the world. Bolt yeah yeah.

26:53Leanne Hughes:Sarah Blizzard and Amy Freeze. What do you think they did? Oh uh they have a snowmobile business. They are meteorologists. Of course they are. Amazing. Love it. Love it. You've got William Wordsworth one of the most famous pirates in history. Scott Speed. Is he a runner? He's a professional race car driver. Brilliant. Love it. Uh Mr. Rich Richie. Uh he's got to be like some kind of banker or something. Yeah, High Love Investment Banker at Barclays. This one is brilliant. Marina Waters. Oh, please. She's got to be something to do with boats. Does she boat builder? She's an oceanographer. Oh, this is amazing.

27:31Leanne Hughes:What I enjoy about this as well is that parents kind of went, Mr. and Mrs. Waters went, should we call her Marina? And now I went, ah! Amazing. Then we have Dr. Chip Silvertooth. Dentist. A real dentist. Amazing. I know. And then this one, Les McBurney. Oh no, is he a lightning guy? Did he, did he, is he a firefighter? Yes! Really? Yeah. Amazing, amazing. Yes, so that was fun. And he wrote, nominative determinism. Yeah. What do you need to know? It's not a single theory, really. We don't kind of have one theory in this. It's lots of things bundled together that we can look at to answer the question in terms of identity, familiarity, familiar, how can I say that word?

28:15Familiarity? Thank you. Maybe because you're not familiar with the word.

28:18Leanne Hughes:and preference and just also how it makes sense of coincidences so in terms of the case four and why people thought this might be real the strongest evidence for nominative determinism comes from research on something called implicit egotism right so in 2002 there were some psychologists who published a paper that asked a deceptively simple question really do people show a subtle preference for things that resemble themselves yeah yeah yeah with dogs dogs that are their owners exactly yeah exactly so they ran a series of studies using real world real world data sets and massive ones as well so it was in terms of like labs this was like public records professional directories census style data and they looked at things like whether people were overrepresented in jobs that shared letters or sounds with their names and whether people were more likely to live in places that resembled their names okay statistically they found a small but significant effect not dramatic um but but enough that it's above chance right what we what we mean by statistically significant as psychologists is it above chance their conclusion was that repeated exposure to your own name builds familiarity that breeds liking and over many years that might bias choices enough to be statistically more significant than chance and around the same time there was another paper that explored nominative determinism nominative determinism in medicine and it leaned into basically name profession matches so they did find things like there wasn't overly um more people called dennis who were dentists um there was other ones as well um if your name started with d they were more like to be doctors lawyers tend to be called things like lawrence or laurie um law yeah yeah Yeah, and weirdly, and this is not really linked to nominative determinism, which kind of said it's kind of a different theory, there was a high concentration of musicians called Zach.

30:18Oh. Yeah. Like the Zach Brown band.

30:21Leanne Hughes:Yeah. My toes in the wall and my ass in the sand. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Sorry, that was a little bit of a segue. Okay. All right, so we've summarised where we're up to. We're saying that actually there's more people here than the chance of where there is nominative determinism. Yeah, so there is research that says that our name, which is so familiar, can start to influence our choices because we'd like familiarity. So that will lead to some statistically significant findings that, yeah, weirdly, there's a lot of dentists called dentists. So yeah, that's nice. Like, oh, that's a quirky little psychology finding, isn't it?

30:56Leanne Hughes:But then, of course, we always have to mess with it because we want to make sure if it's true. So we do something called replication work, which is basically, can we find the results again? And this is actually, fun fact, as a side thought, cause serious, like, identity crisis in psychology over the last, like, 15 years or so because there are so many things that we just can't replicate. So, you know, like Milgram. I'm like the, we can't replicate it. No. No. Famously, the pose, the power pose kind of been. talked about that a few weeks ago because we can't really replicate it um so yeah we ruin our own fun by looking at replication so later researchers went back to these claims and they did it with even bigger data sex even better statistics and one of the most important papers um is brutally named match names analysis reveals no evidence of nominative determinism oh and that's by a researcher called peter spoil the game is that the way i'm saying it right Well, Peter, I'm right.

31:53Leanne Hughes:So the researchers re-ran the logic of earlier studies, basically using the same methodology, but this time properly controlled for certain variables. So things like how common certain names are, how common certain jobs are, demographic clustering, so people with similar demographics, and just historical naming trends. As we know, the popularity of names changes year on year. Once these controls were put in place, the apparent effects vanished. so the name career matches landed exactly where you'd expect them to by chance um there was another i think we asked i think they are having a little bit of fun there are some of the psychologists in this field there's another paper titled why susie sells she's no why susie sells seashells by the seashore i like this and it looked at the issue from a slightly different angle so instead of asking is this effect real it asked why does it feel real and the answer is cognitive bias so as humans we're really really good at spotting patterns memorable matches we're really bad at noticing things that don't fit nicely in a little box um so for every dentist called dennis there are thousands who who aren't called dennis so it's a bit like all of them so it's like i think i was I think the thing's called reticular activation, where if you are going to go and buy a red Skoda Karak, not that anyone would do that, then for the next week, everything you see is just a red Skoda Karak.

33:21Leanne Hughes:Exactly, exactly, yeah. Yeah, so there's a couple of other studies that kind of show the same thing. They did, researchers did kind of look again at egotism, implicit egotism, and they said, yeah, it exists, but it's tiny, and it kind of shows up when people choose between nearly identical options not when they're kind of making big decisions like education or job markets or money opportunities um so yeah there simply doesn't there's not enough psychological force to steer people towards a career so the verdict is is it a truth or a lie it's a lie your name doesn't meaningfully influence the job you end up doing but what is true is that people slightly prefer things that feel familiar.

34:04Leanne Hughes:We remember coincidences far more than non-offense. And our brains just love tidy stories. So you put that together and nominative determinism feels true. Okay, so if you've got your own sort of like question or truth or something that you want Leanne to look into, then get in touch. You can find it all over LinkedIn. She's the one who is useful and funny. And by the way, can I just say, I'm really enjoying your posts at the moment. I'm not contractually obliged to say that. I really do enjoy them. Okay, on to my former favorite time of the week, which is the world famous weekly workplace surgery, where I put your questions to Leanne.

34:36Leanne, I've got the first, I've got three questions here, as would be my want. The first one, why do so many teams swear by disc? So this is anonymous, as they often are, but from LinkedIn. So you will recognize this if you listen and follow Leanne on LinkedIn. It says, Leanne, I've seen you mention that disc, D-I-S-C, not D-I-S-C-O, which is a very different thing for a very different day, is one of the tools you'd be happy to see disappear. I've only come across it a couple of times, but lately I'm finding clients are obsessed. I'm certified in tools like Hogan and Savile and used to work with 16PF and PRF2.

35:13I have no idea what any of those things are. I'm getting pushback on anything that isn't disk though. It's like a belief system. So why do you think it's stuck around so long? And what's your issue with it? Uh-oh. Leanne has some strong opinions. Warning, strong opinions.

35:27Leanne Hughes:what's my issue with it i've i've i've crossed it again i'll i've quote before i've crossed it again until i'm in the face um john amici said when we interviewed him on the podcast how have we fallen to the idea that the complexity of the human mind can be condensed into primary color and that is my main beef with disc it's just too simple to explain human behavior human personality i knew you were going to say that yeah of course you did of course you did there's just so many reasons one but reasons but i think that's the main one and what that comes down to and what john is kind of kind of alluding to there is there's two basic theories in the personality psychology and it's type or trait type being you're put in a box you're a color you're a combination of four letters trait being that you can score somewhere on a continuum of introversion to extroversion everybody will lie there and it's not to say that you are confined by that you're you know you might move up and down depending on certain context or days or age or job or a whole other host of things um I don't like to push people into boxes I think we constrict people I think we limit them I think we potentially fuel their own self-limiting beliefs of what they're capable of their limitations rather than building self-awareness and encouraging growth and I actually saw just this morning a post on LinkedIn I thought I'll be honest I thought I was getting trolled because it was basically like an image of like how brilliant disk and myers-briggs is and the argument was like don't use it for a selection assessment use it for self-awareness and this is also a problem with things like disk and myers-briggs is that the test retest reliability is really poor so if i take it today and i'm a yellow or there's a good chance i'll take it in two weeks and i'll be a green well that's not self-awareness is it that's just a reflection of the mood i was in that day so how useful is that there are also many other issues with reliability and validity when it comes to disk.

37:21Leanne Hughes:And the majority of the validation research is mainly done by disk themselves. They don't release the data very often. So that to me is always a bit dodgy. If you're that confident, share the data, allow peer reviews. And the research that has been done, as I said, the test, retest reliability is really low, as well as a whole other host of kind of measures that basically show it's nonsense. I could go into all the different snores of it, but it's just nonsense. Your body language is showing that you are sick of this question. Well, I'm just sick. I don't know how people still fall for it. Like this person says, I don't understand.

38:02Leanne Hughes:It's like a belief system. It is. It's like a cult. The disc as well, my issue is, it's like i think if you asked asked anybody like hr people psychologists leaders and you went what's this they go oh it's a personality assessment and just go go oh no we're not personality we're behavior so actually all the things you're trying to hold us to is a personality assessment we're not that's behavior and it's like well okay but that's even less useful because my behavior would change much more frequently than my personality does personality is actually fairly fixed over our adult life depending on context of course but it's fairly fixed behavior is not fixed behavior can be modified behavior can be influenced so it's even then less useful because you're not accounting in any way for the environment or the choices we can make in it so it has no place in workplaces let alone for a crew in development because you're not you can't define human behavior by a colour it's almost worse than personality do you know what i mean because it's it can be so changed anyway um this is why i don't like to talk about it really please stop sending questions in about about disc and mbta yeah and obviously then in terms of that because it can't it can't reliably predict job performance and there's many studies that that show this and even distant extent so you probably shouldn't use it in these contexts in terms of development and recruitment well then it's again what's the point having it if it's not doing anything useful then what's the point and if you do use it because people will because they won't realize then you're going to end up at tribunal and the reason people like it is because it makes sense it's got great face validity as we call it it just seems to make sense and for the first time often business leaders will have a shared vocabulary they'll have a way of understanding somebody they've been clashing with in a way that's really really simple but also in a way i think that removes responsibility in terms of how to better manage that relationship because it comes down to like, oh, I'm a red and they're a yellow.

40:02Leanne Hughes:So what are you going to do? It's just the way it is. No, that's just, no, that just creates divide. And that's not what we need in our workplaces at all. Or in the world right now. Exactly. And if you want to just use something silly to give you a shared vocabulary, use horoscopes, use star signs, use like what biscuit are you on like Facebook or something? I'm a jammy dodger, I'm a digestive. if that's all you're looking for to understand each other use that and the reason people will laugh and go i'm never going to do that that's absurd yeah and so is disc yeah so stop it stop it i'm gonna have to talk leanne down now it's gonna take all day she's gonna sorry all day all day by the way if those are interested what kind of biscuit i am i put the knob in hobnob

40:47i think so i think most people now should know what you think about it i think you've given a really good reason why that's not good is that without going into too much because we're a bit short time without going too much into is there is there a reasonable alternative that someone

41:02Leanne Hughes:can use yeah if you're looking at personality look at hogan or shl behavioral i'm a big fan of real world group um and real world group is actually the only psychometric i've ever come across that has been proven in research um a link that is causation not just correlation this is totally not planned but we've also got juliette the yes we do the founder and md of of real world group she's coming on a week on thursday so lovely yes you're going to learn more about that brilliantly shall we move on to the next question are you okay do you want a cup of tea or something yeah i might just have a little walk or something dead easy right next one should i hire younger workers don't answer i know what your answer is but don't answer yet this person they've got some legitimate concerns they run a small business and lots of mixed opinions about hiring 16 to 20 year olds some people say they've got no work ethic they call in sick of the smallest thing and can't handle the basics of a job i'm not sure what to think good for you for thinking for you well not think of yourself but not taking it on face value i want to give young people a chance but also i do need a team to rely on is it worth it now my from a business point of view i can totally see what you're saying you're running a small business this isn't ibm where you can afford to have someone going off uh for six weeks because they're stressed about you about the font size on a document this is someone where if they go off It has a direct impact on the amount of revenue you can.

42:17So, Lee, what are your thoughts?

42:19Leanne Hughes:It's a fair question. And I think it is worth it if you're willing to put in the work that our younger workers need to figure out their identity in the place of work. You know, these are young people. And I think as well as the older you get, you realize that how like 16 years isn't that long. Like it is, but it's not really. so it's kind of like this you know 16 years on this earth then they probably haven't figured out what their work ethic is yet or they haven't really kind of got the knack of balancing work and life in a way that doesn't mean they need to call in sick because they had a bit too much fun last night we've all been there you know we've all we've all had those kind of little wobbles in our early career so i think it's kind of like what how much joy do you get from developing young people and there are some people just get so much joy from it Paul Barnes exactly yeah so many organizations out there that do so I think it comes down to what's your individual passion for it and are you just going to get a kick out of taking somebody who looks as though they've got no work ethic and calling sicker the smallest thing into somebody who works in a really great way and is really reliable and that's because of you and your mentoring and coaching and you're going to get a kick from that then yeah it's totally worth it you're also going to have to work a bit harder in terms of structure so we know especially with um with gen z and this is just about tipping into gen alpha this year as well as 16 year olds we know that they like clear career pathways then we know they like a way to understand how they can make more money and what they need to do to get there and how they achieve that so if you've got really clear development plans really clear career pathways really clear benefit structures with salary increments then you're probably going to find that people are going to work really hard for you and probably harder than than anybody else because they're going to want to prove themselves because they know if I do this I'll get that and that's exactly where I want to take my career and I could be well on my way in the next you know three four years and that's exactly what Paul and Amanda found at MAP with their apprentices in accounting because they've got great pathways really clear development plans really clear um paying benefit structures and they're absolutely thriving they've got one of the highest now one of the highest retention rates i think probably for any small agency it's really up there if you get some joy from developing young people you're willing to put into the work to to put in the structures and you're going to accept that people that age are going to mess up and you're going to have to have to help them work through it then go for it and i tell you what it'll make you a hell of a manager as well if you're starting your your kind of team building in this way that means that you need to put in as much effort as any manager should but they're not but you have to because it's going to fall off a lot quicker and and hurt you more so it all depends on what where you get your kicks I guess but if you get it right younger workers are some of the most brilliant hard-working innovative passionate people that you'll ever see in your workforce yeah I totally agree you can you can they're malleable um they're enthusiastic um without being too much energy oh they've got energy yeah yeah without without being too much of a shill here then leanne's created a a model called the rx7 i know you know about it um seven things that begin or seven words that begin with r hence the rx7 um reason role recognition relationships resources resilience and then a seven one remote if you're giving these young people the reason for why they're doing the work they've got a clear role you give them recognition when they do right.

45:46You build the relationships within the company. You give them the resources so they can do everything themselves. And more importantly, with young people, you help them develop their own resilience because that's going to be a tough thing. You don't have that when you first start off. This is probably the first real challenge where you've got to be somewhere nine to five, which you don't always want to be. If you can do all those things, dude, you're going to kill it. You're absolutely going to kill it. Lee, anything to add before we go to the final question? No. Okay, so this one's about tips for becoming a chartered occupational psychologist.

46:14I do want you to define that term in a second, okay? So someone has said, I'm just finishing my MSc in psychology, organizational psychology. My ambition is to become Leanne, become chartered. I'm starting to look, they didn't write Leanne, I said that, become chartered. I'm starting to look for entry-level roles. Do you have any tips on how to stand out, especially when you're coming in with experience from a different career? Interesting, sounds like this person's perhaps a little older, had a little bit more experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lee, thoughts?

46:38Leanne Hughes:I'll start with your definition, a chartered occupational psychologist. How is that different to a business psychologist, an organisational psychologist, a work psychologist. In terms of the work we do, there isn't any difference really. It's about how we use and understand human behaviour in the workplace to help individuals thrive and businesses thrive as well. Chartered occupational psychologist is the protected term that is governed by the British Psychological Society and the HCPC in the UK, which means that to be called a Chartered Occupational Psychologist, you need to have reached PhD level of experience and education and you need to have proved that in a very structured way that is then assessed independently.

47:17Leanne Hughes:So if you're a chartered occupational psychologist, you are the best of the best, the highest of the highest. There is no greater recognition of your capability in the UK. Because in the UK, psychologists are not protected too. So could I just say I'm a podcast psychologist? Yeah. I could just say that. Yeah, you could absolutely do that. you're not going to get in trouble morally it's not really you know the best thing to do but there's no organization that can fine you or punish you for calling yourself a psychologist this is interesting so you see people on linkedin i see people on linkedin they and they have in their their like their banner i'm a psychologist and i'm like what you're saying doesn't sound like you psychologize much or you know you're very good at psychologizing and that's because they've just picked it out of their backside they're going yeah that's why i'm now yeah i mean i mean typically amongst the kind of general consensus is if you've got a master's in psychology you can call yourself a psychologist but equally you know a master's is is theory it's sitting in a classroom research of course applied research is important but it's not actually applying psychology in workplaces so i mean there's other things like the association of business psychologists have their own different criteria so you see a certified business psychologist or practitioner whatever it is shows again you've had to reach some kind of level but really the only way to know for sure is if somebody's called a charter occupational psychologist interesting okay so we've talked about that this person saying any tips to stand out especially when you're coming in with experience from a different career yeah so in terms of occupational psychology there's five main areas that we work in there is psychological assessment at work which is basically a recruitment and psychometrics training and development organizational development and change leadership and employee engagement and well-being right they're the five expertise that we have or areas of expertise that we have based on five different kind of research foundations what i would say is particularly you said you've got experience coming from a different career look through your cv and go in terms of my experience does it any of it fit into these five buckets does it fit into well-being od change recruitment i've done training i've done and separate your cv into those headings so in terms of an entry-level role people are going to look and go okay yeah you're bringing in some some previous experience in this and one thing that I'd always say as well is that I did my master's went kind of into into organizations not as a psychologist but as a manager and very much worked across the five areas and when I came back to do my chartership a few years ago the main conversation I had with my supervisor where she was like you know what you're doing but you don't know why you're doing it and i think a lot of that is going to you you probably would have learned in your masters as previously in your your experience you've done things that's worked in terms of people and development but you've not known why it's worked so all you've done now is connected your theory and your your practice so think about that in terms of your your cv how do you connect the theory and practice and i think you'll stand out beautiful advice beautiful okay lee i think we've concluded our business here uh we're back on thursday obviously with a brand new expert joined by the incredible Steve Chemish, which is my new best friend.

50:28He's built a marketing agency with a handful of people to nearly 50 people. He's gone through what he calls the puberty of an organisation. When we were discussing it, he basically describes it and it sounds just as unpleasant as the human puberty. But he has all the advice for anyone who is growing quickly and has approached that ominous 13 to 15 person mark.

50:49Leanne Hughes:That tricky, tricky number. So until then, come and follow us on the old LinkedIn. check out the show notes about how to get in touch with the show and i do promise anyone who uses the password cherry vibes in episode pitch will get a big yes from me danny i'm going to come back to you today see you on thursday oh oh and we've got linkedin live this week al oh have we yeah okay yep yep okay we've got linkedin live and leanne's here to tell you all about it so do you remember that silly post i put up about 50 things i'd like to banish in 2026. Yep. Well, you, me, Rebecca Taylor and Jake Tuber, Dr.

51:25Leanne Hughes:Jake Tuber, are going to basically have a fight off. We're going to pick five from the list. I'm going to go this is why it needs to be banished. This is why blah blah. Oh, that's the room 101 thing. Yes, I remember now. 101 thing, yeah. When is it? It is this Thursday at half past, no, 545 CT. So that's going to be 445 GMT. And we could be here all day just converting it for you. But UK time, 4.45. You know how to do that. Yeah. Go to LinkedIn. I think it automatically converts it. But it should be fun. Jake's already trolling me, saying he's going to turn up with Earl Grey tea with milk. Dirty, dirty, dirty potato base.

52:03Yeah. Anyway. Right. We will leave it there. And on that bombshell, we'll see you soon. Bye.

52:09Leanne Hughes:Bye-bye.

52:17Thank you.