310. Workplace Nostalgia, Stalling Careers and Leaked Microsoft Data. PLUS! How to Praise Introverts

23:02Leanne:And when asked what helps them to do their best work, employees highlighted empowerment, teamwork, communication, culture, and customer focus. So far, so healthy. Very good, Microsoft. Microsoft then went on to highlight some opportunities. It's such a CPR thing to do. I love it. While showing off some more fabulous results, they're identifying these figures as improvement opportunities. Only 79 % Al, only 79 % people said they had opportunities to broaden their experience in their current role. 80 % said they have what they need to be productive in today's work. And 81 % said they can clearly see how their work connects to a broader organizational objectives.

23:37Leanne:But what Ms. Coleman is saying basically is that this is an opportunity because 79 is not in the 80s, which is, you know, commendable, commendable. But then there was some other areas that seemed maybe a little bit more interesting, perhaps, if not negative for Microsoft. So overall, confidence in managers remained very high at 85%, which is phenomenal. employees rated managers most highly for embracing new challenges creating inclusive environments and bringing different perspectives together that is psychological safety and action out which is wonderful but underneath that headline number there were some of the biggest declines in the entire survey so when you've got a survey like this where the results are actually really really great anything in kind of the the 70s is is really positive numbers so you have to look for other clues as to where there might be some tension there might be some risk hot spots and seeing declines in figures is a really good way of doing this and that's what the cpr is calling out so the score for managers coaching employees through day-to-day challenges fell five points it still doesn't seem a lot well five points is quite a big it's quite a big difference isn't it if your share price fell by five points yeah there'd be some rumblings would there not true true true um the score for giving cliff feedback fell four points to 79 percent and the score for motivating people to do their best work fell two points to 82 percent so what basically is the results are saying is that people are still very confident in their manager and feel very supported by their manager but in terms of coaching them through day-to-day challenges getting feedback and actually motivating them things are starting to starting to decline um so the thought was is that it could be down to uncertainty it could be pressure as work evolves and the cpo said leadership team is committed to being more transparent communicating more frequently and giving context where they can and i'd imagine one one thing that they will genuinely be keeping an eye on is this idea around coaching and feedback because microsoft has positioned managers as coaches for quite some time i think it was like 2010 2012 they kind of moved this philosophy So for this to start to shift and five points is quite a significant amount.

25:58Leanne:It is something to be mindful of. But you've got to wonder, haven't you, with everything Microsoft has been through in terms of AI, they've had layoffs, they've had changing payment and promotion things. They had that retirement, voluntary retirement program for certain colleagues that just happened to be 50 or over. So it's not surprising we're seeing some dips in places. but I think the really good thing to take away from it is that having managers and having great managers is such an important thing and having managers who coach is just the beautiful best way to do it. So yeah, I'll leave a link in the show notes but I agree on a little bit of, yeah, self-promotional bragging there but with an important message for us all.

26:43Leanne:Management is important. If you're interested in learning a bit more about how Microsoft works then go back to episode 309 which is last Thursday. 309. 309. I was about to say 300, but then I realized it's 309. 309, which is Sean O'Shea, who used to work at Microsoft. Yes, relevant to this as well. I was going to mention Sean. That's what I mean. Yeah. I'm making it relevant to this because you just mentioned Microsoft. Please continue. You weren't listening. You weren't listening. So if you like Microsoft, then go back and listen to that. Great interview, but we also talked quite a bit about Microsoft.

27:14And he was under Steve Bulmer. And then the new one, I always forget his name. I always think I want to call him Nutella, and I know it's not quite that. Sorry, I can't remember. But anyway, yeah, definitely go and check that out.

27:25Leanne:But the point I was going to make, which wasn't what you thought I was going to say and you said, so I was listening, was that a great point that Sean made is that if people are going to AI chatbots for questions they might normally go to their manager, then that reduces these opportunities to have these conversations. So is that data a reflection of managers coaching less or employees going to their manager less and using chats and therefore feeling less supported even though they're initiating it. Oh, we need to get Sean back on. I know. Good guy, Sean. I really like... You know one of these pixie people you meet?

27:57Like, you know, you read that person's name. What was that? I can't remember. Ellis something. And you were like, I like her. I like her face.

28:02Leanne:Yeah. Yeah, I like Sean. Just one of those people who just seems like a really good guy. I hope nothing bad comes out about him because then this is going to age very badly. Imagine if he's got... As of the 16th of June, 2026, we believe that Sean O'Shea is a good egg. based on the information we've got that is in front of us okay talking of things that are in front of us this is a better link then in front of us is still the truth or lie and the world famous weekly workplace surgery where i put your questions to the end we're going to go to a break we'll see in a second please come back please it won't be like this in the second half i promise we'll get our together we will welcome back to truth or lie it's that time of the week we take a popular workplace idea and ask if the research actually backs it up this week's topic came from Leanne, what's going on, please, Leanne?

28:46This is usually my job.

28:47Leanne:Yes, well, I'm going to take that on Sunday. And it's a redo of their circus tour that happened, like, I don't know, 10 years ago or something. So you've already seen it, and there's only three-fifths of the people there, and the tickets are twice the price, just to confirm. Yes, and I'm very excited about it. And you're flying back to the UK specifically for this. Okay, no, it's fine. That sounds perfectly reasonable. Yeah, that's exactly what I would do, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Carry on. You're saying Circus Circus. I am. And it goes, I think anyone who, you know, had a band or an artist that they liked in when they were younger and they're still knocking around, then you know this music kind of comes across different parts of your life and you've shared memories with your closest friends to that music.

29:25Leanne:So it got me thinking about nostalgia as an emotion and if it has any useful place in organisational life. For example, does shared nostalgia bring teams closer together? So I thought if I'm going to do a bit of research anyway, two birds, one stone, here we are, truth or lie. Sounds a little tenuous and you just want to show off about going back to the UK to see Take That. But carry on. Let's keep up this facade. Nostalgia is an interesting area of research, actually. Well, tell me about it. Well, psychologists would describe nostalgia as basically bittersweetness or a bittersweet immersion. It is predominantly positive, but it does come with that tinge of longing, you know, when you've kind of thought back to the good old times.

30:06Leanne:and it is triggered by memories of meaningful experiences in the past and it's almost always about other people so when researchers analyze nostalgic memories friends family teammates other people are almost always involved in some in some way which is what makes it interesting i think and indeed relevant and less tenuous for a workplace question because if it's about relationships where are some of the most important relationships in our life at work yes okay right I'm sold. So tell me what I'm guessing you do. If you're not listening to this before, I think you do a for the truth and then a lie.

30:44No, and against.

30:45Leanne:And then we decide if it's the truth or if it's the lie. Only done this 40 times. Carry on, Lee. Let's have the four. So for in 2024, so some recent research here, researchers tracked more than 3 ,800 employees across nine separate studies, including people going through actual organizational change in their companies. and they measured what's called organizational nostalgia. Just making words up at this point, aren't you? Which is fond, bittersweet longing for meaningful moments in your working life. That's the definition. So it's not nostalgia for childhood or uni or the job before. It's this team, this organization and the early days of being there.

31:26Leanne:So whether it be a difficult project or maybe you've grown from startup, the version of the place that you joined. So they measured this using the Organizational Nostalgia Scale. I learned only recently that that's a thing. The OAS? Yeah. The OAS, yeah, I've known about it for a while. Interesting. It's an eight-question tool asking employees about past achievements, relationship with colleagues, and moments of belonging. And then they tracked behavior over time and ran experiments where some employees record a nostalgic work memory and others just record an ordinary one. And the pattern was consistent across all nine studies that when change happened, employees who felt more nostalgic became better colleagues.

32:09Leanne:They were more committed. They were more likely to go above and beyond. They were more likely to defend the organization if it was criticized. And looking back basically helped people move forward is what the researchers concluded. A separate team then looked into why. so nostalgia at work satisfies two basic needs the need to feel that you've achieved something and the need to feel like you belong and when both are met engagement goes up and then performance follows so their studies found that organizational nostalgia predicted better job performance more creativity and a greater willingness to support change i thought that was really interesting that actually having this look back at how things were can actually make you more motivated, more creative and more willing to grow with the company.

33:01Leanne:Because sometimes we think it's the other way around, don't we? Kind of like that team that started is less likely to want to change. But if they're experiencing organisational nostalgia, apparently not. Belonging keeps showing up actually in the research as well. So when researchers analyse what nostalgic memories actually contain, um as i mentioned before other people are almost always at the center of that so it's not necessarily places or achievements even it's it's the people you did that with so the summer i'm gonna try and say you know when you you only look at names written down and then you realize you're gonna have to say it out loud for the first time yes let's see sedekidus and wildshot wow that's the Greek?

33:43German?

33:43Leanne:I don't know. But they found across multiple studies that nostalgia increases what psychologists call social connectedness. So they felt a sense of being valued by the people around them. And that was directly linked to finding more meaning in work, which we know is really important because meaningful work is one of the biggest predictors of work engagement. And importantly, this held even when researchers introduced loneliness in participants first. So nostalgia didn't just strengthen existing relationships, it repaired them when they'd already broken down. So it was actually a way of rebuilding connectedness between colleagues.

34:23Leanne:Then there's what happens when nostalgia is shared. So a 2014 study split people into groups and asked some to recall a nostalgic group memory. Others a positive but non-nostalgic one. And the nostalgic group felt more connected and more willing to invest time on the group's behalf. And to check this was real behaviour, not just kind of intentions. the researchers gave participants actual money and staged a situation where a fellow group member was treated unfairly. And people who'd recalled a shared nostalgic memory spent significantly more of their own funds to defend that person. I know. Interesting.

35:00Leanne:Interesting. So across workplace studies, lab experiments, research involving thousands of employees, the evidence does build a fairly consistent picture that nostalgia at work and particularly shared nostalgia strengthens connection increases meaning and drives people to invest more in the people around them right now see i our friend alec um who was your work husband for a while wasn't he um it's funny because you both have this amazing nostalgia for a time which i remember you coming on very very stressed a lot of times in that job but you have the shed um the shared nostalgia for a particular job and you've become like amazing friends now um by the way alec came to surprise us you know how in our home in bosnia came from manchester um that's how much of a friend he is so yes i can see that and also in my own life i can remember back to the beer days um unfortunately i don't speak to not i don't speak to but i haven't kept up with a lot of the people but certainly my brother who worked with me at the time will often have like little and chris my business partner will often have little sort of exchanges going oh do you remember when this happened did you remember when that happened so yeah okay okay and you've got your doorman friends as well haven't you from pub days yes i do yeah the doorman yeah yeah you're still mates with them i still make we're mates in the way that men who don't see each other very often are mates we've just got a shared group and we will just we will just rip the other person apart from time to time you go oh i love you too man anyway right okay so that's what that's where we're that's the four so far i can't see why they're being against yeah i agree i yeah but let's see let's see because It's never that straightforward, is it?

36:33No.

36:34Leanne:Psychologists always need to find something to pick at. That's why they're like a buffet or a sharing plate. So most of the research we just talked about works by asking people to deliberately sit down and recall a meaningful memory. And that's not really how nostalgia works in real life. Like you said, it's just random things like picking up your phone and messaging somebody or chatting, having a conversation. It's not kind of, I'm going to sit down and think about a nostalgic memory before I start my day. And researchers themselves have been honest about this. So there's three research behind some of the most foundational research in nostalgia, and that is Wildshot, Siddiquities and Rutledge.

37:19Leanne:So they acknowledged very early on that almost all of their studies, this was a problem and they had been run with British undergrad students. which are eager, bright young people sitting in a lab, deliberately trying to do their very best to conjure the memories on request. So it has been flagged as a limitation. So how much of this would translate to a group of 45-year-olds going through a restructure in a bank is genuinely an open question. Other researchers decided to test whether the lab setting itself was a problem. So instead of asking people to recall memories in a controlled environment, they basically messaged participants throughout the day for several weeks and asked them how they're feeling in real time and they found that nostalgia as it naturally occurs was associated with lower well-being not higher and the negative effect got stronger throughout the day and the following day a separate team did the same thing specifically at work so they tracked over 100 employees over three weeks as nostalgia arose naturally during their working days and again two things happen at once.

38:27Leanne:Nostalgia made people more helpful and generous to colleagues, but it also made them more distracted, reduced their daily task performance and increased counterproductive behavior. So looking back pulled people away from the work that was in the here and now. So I guess they were just sitting there looking out the window, some music. Thinking about the good old times. Like the sad bits of Neighbours, that music. Like Neighbours, yeah. No, but so few people understand that reference. I know, it's niche references, a number of Venn diagrams. Sorry, Danny Wareham will get it. Carry on. Did you know, I was watching, segue.

39:02Why not?

39:03Leanne:I was watching that Kylie documentary that's on Netflix. Oh yeah. And they basically had to, the reason, you know, Neighbours was repeated, it'd be on at lunchtime, it'd be on again like after five. It was because people kept skiving school or coming late after lunch hour because they'd gone to watch Neighbours. Really? I thought there was a huge problem around people like the country would stop at one o 'clock to watch neighbours. Australia or UK? UK. Oh, wow. Anyway. Moving on. So yeah, so the researchers basically made the point that if nostalgia allows people to mentally travel back in time to a more comfortable state, then what stops them from tipping into complacency?

39:48Leanne:And as we said, kind of getting a bit distracted at work. Then there's the question of who nostalgia actually helps. So research tracking people through major life transitions found that nostalgia only works as a positive force when people feel connected to their past. So when there's that thread between who they were and who they are now, that's good. But when that connection is broken, nostalgia works in reverse. So it becomes a reminder of what's been lost. So people become more likely to see obstacles, less open to new opportunities, report lower well-being. And the research described it as both kind of a medicine and a poison depending on the person and the circumstance.

40:24Leanne:That matters for teams because not everyone shares the same history. New joiners weren't there for the early days. People who've been through difficult periods in the organisation may have a very different relationship with the past than those who didn't. So nostalgia that brings some people close together can actually leave others feeling on the outside, which is what we mentioned before didn't mean in terms of like startups and that, you know, people reminiscing on those early days for those newer starters weren't there. So Tim Wildshaw, as I said, one of the leading researchers on collective nostalgia has acknowledged this and he noted that nostalgia can be used in ugly ways.

41:01Leanne:So it can be seen in politics when leaders appeal to a mythical past, make America great again, maybe. And the same dynamic can play out in organisations. So a culture that is built heavily on a shared memory can make it much harder for new people to break. and that's why we see these these cliques so is it a truth or is it a lie I'm gonna say it's true but it does come with a few conditions so the evidence shows that yes shared nostalgia can strengthen connection commitment and a willingness to invest in the people around you but it only really works when it's deliberate and it's best for people who already feel connected to the organization's past so those who don't share that history you knew joiners people who maybe had a hard time during that period they can do the opposite so if you are a leader you need to use it intentionally especially during change that's when the research shows it's it's most useful and most powerful and you need to be careful who you're including so creating new shared memories matters just as much as invoking old ones so yeah as for take that on sunday the research i think would say it's time well spent Al time and money well spent nostalgia consistently increases well being and meaning and social connectedness when we look back with fond memories on that time and I do with my friends so yeah Al my trip is is absolutely necessary even though we've only been back a week since all of us holiday science says it's a good idea well a psychologist says you should go back and watch take that there you go so if anyone's anyone's not in the UK and the tickets are still available then if you go to truthliesofwork.com forward slash take that then you can get a 20 discount no you can't i've just made that up i have a question we don't have that kind of power we don't have that kind of power i have a question so you said something i think the phrase was nostalgia allows people to mentally travel back to a more comfortable state your first like reaction to that was like oh that could make them complacent a little bit but could it also almost underline how shit things are now because you go, oh, well, I remember nostalgia.

43:11I remember when it was great. And now we've got AI who is doing most of my job. And do you know what I mean? Where it's basically you're saying it's, I think I've made my point question.

43:19Leanne:Yeah, I think you have. Nostalgia only really works in a positive way if that nostalgia is viewed positively. Yes. If it's viewed negatively, then it can have. Or, yeah, it's vice versa, isn't it? So if it was good in the past, but bad now or vice versa. Yeah, it's, you know what I'm trying to say. You said it. I think Jimmy Carr says something quite cool. Jimmy Carr's such a lucky, he's like sort of Sun Tzu. No, who's the guy who's Confucius? He's a modern day Confucius. I know, I know. Look at you, knocking out knowledge. Well, what he said was, he said that grief is the price we pay for love.

43:54Leanne:Yeah. And yeah, maybe he didn't say it. Maybe someone else cleverer said it. But I think it's sort of almost like that with nostalgia, isn't it? Like, I can't really connect those. But anyway, someone clever, connect those and do a LinkedIn post about it. Brilliant. There's lots of cheesy, cheesy motivational things about though, isn't it? Like, what if you could realise that the good old days is happening right now? Yes. Yes. Yes, we are living the good old days. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I hope. I hope most of you, in fact, I hope all of you are living the good old days. Do you know what are good days?

44:26Days when I get to ask you three questions, which are sent in a part of the World Famous Weekly Workplace Surgery Reproducement Questions to Leanne. Woohoo, you did it! Yes, yes. only like I think we've done 200 of these and that's the first time I think I've done it without fluffing hello Jeremy because he was Jeremy Klein, a friend of the show he sent me a message going oh you got it right

44:46Leanne:I was like thank you Jeremy thank you Jeremy also quick right so one of the things just behind the scenes we're talking about Leanne and I were talking about maybe moving the show to five times a week I asked Jeremy about this he went don't do that I can't keep up I can barely keep up with two so like yeah we probably won't be going five times a week Anyway, so question number one. What were we thinking? We were proper like work mode. I mean, that's before we went on holiday. I know. And now we're kind of newly jellied back. I'm like, that's a terrible idea. Why would we do that? Oh my gosh. I like working eight hours a week.

45:18Okay, so question number one, Leanne. Am I missing something with recognition? So I keep hearing that people need more recognition at work, probably from Leanne. And most of my team are pretty introverted. So if I praise them publicly, they look like they want the ground to swallow them up. Now, I know people want to feel appreciated, but I'm not convinced everybody wants a shout out in a team meeting. Lee, is there a way to make people who potentially might skew introverted feel valued without making it feel awkward?

45:46Leanne:Well, you don't have to do it in public. I'm not sure where this assumption comes that you have to do it. I know it's kind of, it's quite a, oh, is it like, I think does Office Vibe do it? Where it's like give kudos or something to like a team member and it's quite public. And yeah, you can and that's nice. And people, you know, sometimes people like that. But really, recognition in that sense only works if it's very specific, if it is linked to either the values of the organization or the goal that was trying to be achieved. And you're clear on how that person contributed to that. So me going, shout out to Al and the team meeting.

46:21Leanne:He smashed it this week with customers. Yay. It's kind of like, that's nice, but it's of no use to you. and it doesn't really have the psychological impact that that recognition has if I went even in private out I saw that um what happened in that email chain with a customer who's being really nasty and difficult I thought you handled it really brilliantly because you completely diffused the situation by using this type of language and that completely reflects everything that we talk about in the organization in terms of customers being our core focus we do everything we can for them the way it resolved is brilliant you know you managed to add another five thousand to the revenue this month i'm really impressed thank you so much well done even though that's fake i'm all i'm still feeling a bit i'm still like oh thank you leanne i am good at that see i am exactly exactly because it's specific and you can do that in a one-to-one i think it's always nicer to have it as a conversation but that might just be because that's how i prefer to communicate you You could do it over email.

47:20Leanne:You could do it over Slack. You can have these conversations however you want to do it as long as it just flow that kind of structure of being specific and embedded in some kind of context of the organisation and the competencies of the individual. The other thing about recognition, it's not just about that. Recognition is also about using people's strength, engaging in things like job crafting, like what things do they want to do more or what things do they want to do less of career development, where do they want to go in the future in terms of their career is it in the same industry is it in the same type of role what what opportunities do you give them to to develop either in terms of training and education or work related opportunities that's also part of recognition because it's noticing somebody's strengths and competencies and stretching them in a way that is going to help them to get to where they want to be so that would be my advice recognition is more than one thing it is about how you do it so yeah maybe try that and see how it goes and And I'm sure, particularly if people are introverted, they're going to respond much better to that.

48:21Excellent answer. If someone's listening and they're like, oh, this sounds really psychologisingly great, then recognition is one of the seven foundations of Leanne's RX-7 model. If you want to learn a bit more, just book a call with Leanne. The link's in the show notes. It's always been in the show notes. You go back to episode one, it's been in the show notes. You can book a call with Leanne. Just don't try and sell her anything or I will join the call and I will say, oi, off you go. Okay, question number two. Is everybody worried about money or is it just me? So this person writes, I get the feeling my team are carrying a lot of anxiety at the moment.

48:53No one's come out and said it, but between the economy, rising costs and constant stories about layoffs, the mood just feels different. As a manager, should I acknowledge that kind of thing? Or is it better not to open a conversation you can't really solve? Wow, this is one of my favorite questions ever been asked on the surgery.

49:09Leanne:Really? Yes, because I think that's what a lot of managers would ask going. if I can't fix it do I even bring it up? When you and I volunteered for the Samaritans and we would talk to people who were feeling very distressed to the point of feeling suicidal was our job ever to fix it? No. What was our job? To listen, reflect back and ask questions and get them to feel a bit more about your analogy of essentially you have a washing machine and it's got lots of thoughts tumbling around in it and you open the door and you take out one t-shirt look at it, fold it, put it down and then take the next one out.

49:42Leanne:Yeah, there's an enduring myth that managers have to have all the answers and you don't. But being able to hold a conversation with somebody to help them offload and reflect, particularly if you're feeling like this, can really, really help them. And as we found with Samaritans, a lot of time people come to their own conclusions or develop their own options. It's asking lots of these types of coaching questions as well and guiding them through it. It's also worth though arming yourself with some information on what the organisation does do in terms of supporting financial wellbeing. And most organisations tend to do something around that now.

50:20Leanne:It is the most neglected area of wellbeing, I think, but there are still things that organisations do. For example, EAP systems will have things like cashback things, won't they, or shopping things or discounts and that type of thing. Or they'll have free sessions with a financial advisor for a period of time. um again i know we've mentioned it all the time but something like perks offers those types of things and it's like four quid a month per person and you can do it as an individual as well so you could even if you don't have that internally you could recommend that that they look at that as a kind of cost-effective way there's also lots of free education i'm thinking about go henry talk about octopus money do lots of free education um there's lots out there on financial well-being that there will be free resources available, just Google it.

51:06Leanne:Ask ChatGPT, you'll find some depending on where you are in the world and what's relevant. So I think it's understanding that sometimes having a conversation with somebody on a one-to-one, just asking them how they are, asking how they're doing, maybe saying, you know, it's quite a lot at the minute, isn't it, with the economy, rising costs. I'm finding it, you know, my anxiety has peaked a little bit. you might then you know open up a conversation where somebody will share with you and just having that conversation will help more than you will realize and if you've got some resources in your back pocket to signpost people to um then then that's even even better excellent advice excellent advice as always as always leanne um right okay so we've got question number three this person is complaining that they didn't make the return to office decision but they're having to implement it.

51:56So they said, our company's just increased the number of days people need to be in the office. My team are not happy. And a few have said they're considering leaving. They're feeling like it's a backward step. The problem is I didn't make the decision. I'm just the person who has to explain it and deal with the fallout. So how as a manager should I end up dealing with a problem like this, which I had absolutely no say in? Thoughts?

52:19Leanne:Yeah, I'd find this one hard as well, because I struggle with return to office mandates. My first thing would be to understand why this decision has been made. Hopefully that's been communicated with you in some way, whether it be for customer reasons or whatever excuse they've made around collaboration and ideation and all that kind of stuff. I would try and understand why the company has made this decision. Typically people will want to, they'll have kind of a visceral reaction first of all because it's significantly changing their way of working and it's going to have some negative impact, whether it be in terms of their time commuting, the cost of commuting, childcare, other caring responsibilities.

53:01Leanne:So I would be tempted to try and understand why from the organisation to maybe give you something to work with and then sit down with the individuals who have been very vocal about saying that they might leave and over time sit down with everybody and understand why this is so difficult. Is it because they struggle to focus in the office? It might be you have some neurodiverse colleagues, there's certain adjustments you can make in an office environment to help them be more productive. It might be a cost-related aspect in terms of commuting, in which case, I don't know, some organisations do do things around that, don't they, in terms of supporting travel costs.

53:39Leanne:It could be around childcare. So what flexible working is allowed within the organisation or will be considered? Can they put in a request for flexible working if they need it? I think it's understanding exactly why people are having such a strong reaction to going back to the office beyond that they might just assume they enjoy working from home. There's probably going to be something else. If it is just that they enjoy working from home, chances are over time, given the current state of the number of return to office mandates we're still getting, they'll realize that that actually it's it's still a hybrid situation and this is maybe as good as it's going to get unless you look at a fully remote role which which you're getting fewer and fewer ridiculously so i think that's really understanding why and trying to address those individual concerns and challenges rather than trying to kind of a blanket solution to helping people accept this decision you not be able to do that but there might be some things you can do with some individuals to make this transition a little bit easier yeah and i think that you're not alone.

54:39In fact, probably 90%, excuse me, 90 % emotionally, 90 % of the decisions that any manager has to implement is likely not made by them anyway in a larger organization. So you're definitely not alone. If this is really bothering you, then again, I have said book a call with Leanne. So if you are, if the listener is in this position or someone who's listening is in this kind of position, you do want a little bit of advice. Leanne is just such an awesome person. So just book a little call with her. She'll talk you through something. I hope that's okay you're just looking at me of course it is do not let the public the general public access to me

55:13Leanne:it's always a nice surprise as well when somebody books it and I'm in my diary and I'm like huh and you're going back through messages and emails going have I just not remembered this person yeah yeah and it's like no no we've not spoke it's a surprise surprise love it love it love it tell you what's not a surprise is we are back on Thursday with another interview but what is a surprise is that I haven't written down who is there so I will double check who's coming I'm not going to tell you now you'll have to wait till Thursday or we don't know anyway if you if you have your own question that you want to add to ask Leanne then just check out the show she can submit it there alright Leanne anything else for these lovely people to hear before we go?

55:48Leanne:subscribe please leave us a review if you haven't before it really helps other people find the show and we love reading them we've had a few new ones recently and they're lovely comments as well we love your comments on Spotify so go do that we will have a look and respond LinkedIn is where to continue the conversation with myself and occasionally Al he's starting to dip his toe into the world of LinkedIn now. Yeah, all links in the show notes, subscribe, et cetera. Thank you. Bye. Bye-bye.