227: Disclose or Nah?!

33:31Yeah. Put out like an inquiry through your church. Put a little flyer up at your church. Do something like that. If you want that kind of meaning on what you're commissioning, then that could be lovely. But just make sure you're the one who's taking care of that. If I want, you know, to buy from a women-owned business, I can do my own research and find a woman-owned business. Like that is on the person hiring the other person. If you're getting hired for a job you're just doing the job yeah you know that's how I feel too I think that's like the best way to put it like if you have those preferences you should go out and like ensure that and ask the questions up front yeah almost like the same with the plastic surgery like if the guy would have been like hey I have these hard preferences like I don't want to date anyone with yeah a breast augmentation then it's like oh well I'm I'm out then like yeah it was great to meet you bye Yeah.

34:21Like, I guess if you have these strong preferences and guidelines, like, you should be disclosing that versus putting the blame on the other people. Mm hmm. I think that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Top comment on this one. Not the asshole. You don't discriminate. But apparently they do. Laughing my ass off. OP responds. OK, this made me laugh a little bit. Thank you. Next comment down. It's true, though. If he wanted an artist creating it with faithful intentions, he should have said so during negotiations. I'm baptized and used to be quite active in the church. However, I'm an atheist and might look Christian to others, but I'm not.

35:00If I made something like this, it wouldn't have been with faithful intentions either. That's a very specific intention. You can't just assume someone will fulfill without speaking up. Yeah. Yeah. if you want holy water you gotta find a priest you know you can't just be buying water from the farmer's market and getting mad that it's not holy I don't know of that how do you even guarantee you're getting holy water someone could just bottle it up I don't know it's the same with the bath water all these weirdos buying people's bath water yeah and again it's like it's not a bad thing to have a preference and to be like I would really like to find somebody who shares this same value with me to create this thing for me.

35:44That's okay. Like, that's not this horrible feeling to have. But then it's on you to find somebody who shares that. And then you can't get mad when you've already paid someone and they've already done the work. And then, uh-oh, like now you find that out because you just asked, what's your favorite scripture? Uh-oh. I know. I'd be like, John 3.16. I know. Isn't that the one that Tim Tebow put on everything? For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son so that whoever believed in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. really sticks with you huh yes i went to like church camp and you win points for your cabin if you memorize the most verses so wow there's my memories there the only thing i like know is like this bedtime prayer that like even though i'm like not really religious now it's it's like a pavlov like if if i remember yeah i have to say it otherwise like i can't fall asleep wow now i right now I lay me down to sleep whatever I pray to god my soul to keep I've actually watch me through the night until I wake in morning light I've heard a lot of variations of that same lullaby by the way I just like I am just so I don't know and that's like because the other version I know I don't know and if I die before I wake I pray to god my soul to take yeah no I don't say that version I I knew that version and that felt a little dark for me because it was like almost like a manifestation.

37:05I'm like, I'm not going there. Keep me down here. All right. We're on his side again. Not disclosing. Okay. Well, let's see if I can give us one where disclose is needed. Yeah. That's important because there are times like there are times we should be disclosing things. Look at your mischievous group. I know. I have so many saved for this theme, you guys. So there will be a Patreon episode with similar vibes in August as well. This episode is brought to you by Nintendo. Everyone's version of Me Time is a little different. That's why the Nintendo Switch 2 system is so fun. With exclusive and Nintendo Switch compatible games like Mario Kart World, Animal Crossing New Horizons, Nintendo Switch 2 Edition, Tom Odachi Life, Live in the Dream, or Yoshi and the Mysterious Book, there's something for every vibe.

37:58And with upgraded hardware, play at home or on the go whenever the mood hits. Learn more at Nintendo.com slash Nintendo Switch 2. Games and systems sold separately. Some Nintendo Switch games may not be supported or fully compatible with Nintendo Switch 2. Games rated E for everyone. This episode is brought to you by Vinted. Season is changing. Time to clean out that closet and maybe make some extra money in the process. Vinted is a secondhand marketplace app where you can sell your clothes you no longer wear and get more value out of your wardrobe. It's super simple to use and with no selling fees.

38:34So you keep what you earn. Give your clothes a second life with Vinted. Download the Vinted app for free to start listing with no seller fees. Okay, this is coming from Am I the Asshole? Again, just an Am I the Asshole day apparently. And it is titled, Am I the asshole if I report the couples therapist that married my ex-boyfriend a year after our sessions with her? Wait, I literally have a friend who went to a couples therapist with her husband and the therapist like got a crush on my friend's husband, but they like let like he wasn't about it. But yeah. Oh my God, this could have been them. Yeah.

39:13Or it was like their marriage counselor. Like there's like something for before the marriage. Like, I don't know. Anyway. Yeah. Ah! I wonder if this is a really common thing. Chime in, you guys. Yeah. In 2017, I, female 25, saw a couples therapist with my then boyfriend, male 36. After three sessions with her, I refused to return due to her blatant, flirtatious behavior and extremely judgmental attitude towards me, which my ex-boyfriend called me delusional for pointing out. She had told me that I seemed too immature, not ready for therapy or a serious relationship, The whole thing was focused on my ex-boyfriend and his complaints about me.

39:54She never asked about my feelings or perspective in the relationship. We broke up about two months after the sessions, but I stayed living with my ex-boyfriend until November. Once I moved out, I had to return to our old apartment to get mail. This was in December, and that was the first time I saw the therapist with my ex. They happened to be getting ready to go out on his motorcycle and were both wearing full-face motorcycle helmets, but I knew from her body type and hair that it was her, along with my instincts, which suspected something was going on the whole time. But nevertheless, I moved on with my life.

40:34I just found out yesterday my ex got married due to a friend telling me about a photo he posted on Facebook. The photo was of him and my ex-therapist celebrating their one-year anniversary. I found her Facebook with the name change, and sure enough, they got married September of 2018 or earlier. That's just when she posted the wedding photos. This was less than a year after the breakup with me and my ex, and barely over a year after our sessions with her ended. I'm considering filing a complaint with the American Counseling Association. My friends and mental health counselors I know say I have enough evidence.

41:14I'm not upset that my ex moved on. So have I. I thank the universe every day that I'm no longer with that narcissist. However, I feel deeply disturbed to find out he married our therapist, especially remembering all the harmful stuff she said to me in the sessions, which, to be honest, really messed with my head. I fear of coming off as a bitter ex. Am I the asshole? This is crazy. Wait, there are two situations here, like possibilities. Like, I know. Was he seeing the therapist before he brought her to her? Yeah. Or did it happen like over the course of the sessions? because to tell a client like you aren't mature enough for therapy like that's why you go to therapy to work on yourself that is there was already some like animosity there diabolical one thing to you know develop a crush on somebody and to maybe see them in a little bit more of a golden light but then to have such negativity toward the current girlfriend i would more so be like, oh, I feel guilty about feeling this way if I'm developing a crush, which is why it leads me more to feel like something was already going on.

42:32I'm very curious. And his defending of the therapist, too, kind of points to that direction. Yeah. Because after three sessions, why are you defending this stranger versus me, your partner who you're seemingly trying to work on things with? Right. And how would this therapist have fallen for him so quickly in three sessions, but also have been acting like this kind of from the first one. Like, is he really that handsome? I don't know about that. I know. How do you meet someone after that short amount of time and like already have such a three sessions, an hour each? And you're like, I'm going to target her because I want him for myself.

43:11Yeah. And it happened in what it sounds like all the sessions. Yeah. Especially the last two. So it's like you met him. You had 60 minutes with this guy. And then we're like, I'm going to go for him. He's mine. Mine. That's my king. Yeah, I don't think that there would be anything wrong with reporting this because I do feel that one of like the key foundations of being a therapist would be like separating your own personal emotions from the help that you give other people and the advice that you give them. And like, I mean, you're leading people down roads and they're trusting that you are a professional and you know what you're doing.

43:51And like that that can put people in very dangerous situations to be like, oh, no, he's doing amazing. And like you actually have things you need to be like, like she's still questioning herself years later because it's like I went to a professional and this is what they told me. I know. I'm very curious what the timeline is. Yeah. I'm very curious also the requirements for her license and dating patients afterwards. I know for me as an OT, you had to wait six months after seeing a patient and then you could legally date them. Okay. I think mental health providers, it's different. It might be longer.

44:28If you're a mental health provider out there, please chime in in the comments. I'm just Googling to see like what I can find online. On some of the sources, I'm seeing mental health professionals generally cannot date current patients due to ethical and legal guidelines that protect patient well-being. after therapy ends there is a waiting period before a therapist can date a former patient which varies but is typically at least two to five years wait this oh two to five years is like a really long time but i understand it because like there is such a power dynamic as well i mean it's like dating your boss but maybe even more like more of a power dynamic between a therapist and yeah i i anyone can fall in love so like that's tough like people wait this happened on married at first sight one of the experts who like matches up the couples ended up marrying one of the people that they messed up one of the guys that they just got the chills matched up it was so i think it was in one of the earlier seasons too but she was like removed from the show because of it wow yeah okay Okay, so I'm on GoodRx and apparently varies by state, therapist license, all of that jazz.

45:43Per the American Psychological Association, a psychologist can't date a patient for at least two years. And the ACA has a five-year waiting period after therapy has ended. And so OP wrote in about a complaint with the American Counseling Association. So ACA. So five years then based on what I'm seeing from a quick Google. Do we know if it's different if like they only had one session and they like met and they were like, oh, actually, I don't know if I should see you as a therapist. I wonder. I don't think that would matter. Like I feel like patient is patient. Yeah. The GoodRx like article on this whole thing does say this, though.

46:28even then a therapist must demonstrate that the relationship is not exploitative to avoid legal issues yeah i mean i think that that's like an important law to have in place because again that's so i mean it's almost like grooming could take place in that scenario because you are going to this person their word is sort of like up to heaven to you and you really trust them and you like trust them with your with your mind i know this is apparently a common issue this whole article is titled can you date your therapist no and here's why and essentially it's just like it's normal to develop intimate feelings for your therapist yeah a therapist dating their client is unethical and in many states against the law and i think exactly as you said like you're in this vulnerable position they could be telling you things almost like grooming like it could be that that like subconscious coercion to where you think you're getting the help you need, but it's actually them manipulating you, which like, how in what ethical world could you ever date a patient?

47:38Like you can't, like I kind of, as this thing says, like you really shouldn't. And it's so understandable to develop a crush because it's like, you become so intimate with this person. You're sharing so much of yourself with them. Like you're, you're bare to them about all these things that you maybe are scared to talk about with anybody else. Yeah. So, you know, it's not on the patient to like, like it's, they've done something wrong. If they develop feelings for their therapist, it has to be on the therapist to draw that line. I agree. That's like one thing I feel like if things are really bad, you should disclose that's that one Facebook page.

48:14Like, are we dating the same guy? I know like there's some issues with it a little bit. Yeah. I've been hearing about that recently. Yeah. But like if there's someone you go on a date with that is truly just horrendous and scary, like you should disclose that. Like this, you should absolutely disclose. Yeah. Like there are both elements of it of like her being a bad therapist because those feelings got confused and like kind of messing with this girl. But then there's also like, is this an OK dynamic between him and her? And then if she actually was dating him before, then that's a different ethical issue.

48:47Then it's like abusing your power in a completely different way. Yeah. No, I definitely think she needs to report. 100%. Disclose. Yeah, disclose that. Disclose. So there is a comment here. Hi, I'm a therapist. All caps. Please report her. Wow. Her behavior is ridiculously unethical and who knows what else she has done or if she even should be allowed to practice. not the asshole times a million edit I gotta say I'm loving this veritable Greek chorus of therapists showing up to chant report her report her OP if you see this please don't feel like you're obligated to report her you do what you need to do to find peace and closure all right but that's true like I think someone who's willing to do this to a client a patient also could be messing with people yeah just to mess with people and like assert control or power yeah which is scary it's not safe to have someone in such a position of like influence over people yeah because she might not want to steal the next man but she could still like target someone in such a bad way and someone who is vulnerable like even op said like this really messed with my head so someone who isn't abiding by their ethical code and moral guidelines as a provider which is so important shouldn't provide wow disclose wow this that's crazy i wish we knew though i wish we knew if they just somehow fell in love over those sessions or if this was before i wonder like which is worse i almost feel like the conspiring would be worse of like oh we're gonna make her feel crazy dude if they were talking before and planned that and that was like oh i don't want to break up with her well i'll end it for you right and it's like they go to therapy then in hopes of like oh that's so oh that's the worst that's the worst scenario yeah so we do have a little bit of an update You're lying.

50:55Is it Christmas? Like, wait, what the hell? Wow. Thank you, everyone, for your responses. I realize that as the ex, it's pretty much impossible for it to not seem like I'm jealous, petty bitter, whatever you want to say. However, it is also impossible to have sat in those sessions and then see your therapist and ex get married and have zero feelings about it, regardless of having moved on. Please give me a break. I'm human. Anyways, I've made my decision. I'm not going to participate in this post anymore, but I sincerely think those of you that made meaningful contributions. So one of my friends has basically taken it upon herself to investigate the therapist.

51:35I swear she should be in the FBI. That's so important. Okay. I love that. She found out that this is the third last name that this woman has practiced psychotherapy with. Under the first last name in 2014, she was charged with a DUI with property damage. She also comes up on health grades with five one-star reviews and an overall three-star rating. Essentially, what this new information does for me is confirm that she has been a shitty human being with shitty morals for quite some time. There's no way this is the first time she has caused undue harm to a client. Therefore, I can say with certainty that I am reporting.

52:19Awesome. Awesome. Mm-hmm. Wait, everything's kind of like going our way this episode. Like the girl left that guy. She's reporting this therapist. They're letting us know about these things. This is awesome. Unless we're like really off with our takes and then like you guys are going to have to let us know because you know it takes a village sometimes no and also love that fbi friend like community is so important dude the people that can sleuth like i have a friend that can like sleuth like this and has like multiple times like found out that like a guy she met and was like going on dates with like had a secret girlfriend and like well that should be disclosed i'm absolutely i just like I don't understand how people have the time like I barely have enough time to like have friends and like get out of my house and like yeah how do people have time to date multiple multiple people I don't even know even in a casual sense that's not something I've ever been good at doing no like if you're early on and not exclusive like yeah go on a couple dates a week with different people yeah you absolutely can I'm just saying I have never been able to like handle that it takes stamina for sure but if you're exclusive and you're like seeing the same person a couple times a week yeah how tinder swindler that was crazy what was that one that was the guy who was like on a netflix show and he was like swindling money from all these women but he had such intense relationships with them oh my god and he was like i work for like the fbi and like dude that's like the seniors and like even people my mom's age that are like oh my god brad pitt messaged me he needs 5 000 and i'm like grad pitt's not messaging you brad pitt's not real he never was like zendaya does not need 2 000 for a dress like oh my god she's got law even when i was in like high school there was a lot more success with catfishing at that time i definitely i had a catfishing i catfished one of my boyfriends into cheating on me with her just to prove it mikaela wow we're disclosing all sorts of things today i was like you know what i don't think he's that loyal to me who did you whose pictures did you steal some like internet girl i was like 16 you know this is why you have people that use your pictures and catfish others now this is the karma that you got this is the karma but i just like well it was i didn't i only like had a profile picture for her so i only had like a profile picture and i was like oh my god like you're so cute and he was like wait you're so cute and i was like and and then i you're funny i think i didn't break up with him i think he was like oh no like my friends and i just like saw that and we knew it was so obviously fake and we thought it'd be funny to like entertain it and i was like fuck i like i i revealed myself too soon shoot shoot whatever who among us hasn't that's i've never catfished anyone oh never oh never unless you call whitening my teeth in photos catfishing to be fair like the catfishing only lasted like five messages oh well okay you were 16 probably like around that yeah i'll give you a break i'll give you a break i'd do it again okay we do have one final comment from op oh definitely a huge thank you to all the therapists showing up to support me and also thank you for adding that last bit i just updated the post with the new information i have about her character i'm definitely reporting this woman should not be a therapist i hope that she really did find her true love for my ex and that it will be worth it for her really i do but she should not be trusted by another vulnerable person ever again I do feel like having all those therapists comment that must have been really validating for OP and like help them feel like okay this is the right choice and it would help me yeah especially because I think some people by the sounds of her first edit came in like you're just jealous you're better you're jealous blah blah blah blah blah like I would then start to feel like wow I'm way off base here like and it's a big thing to like report somebody like I I it would take a lot like even giving someone a bad review on Google like I feel very guilty about doing that and would only do it under like this was a really really bad situation bordering dangerous.

56:45Yeah. You know like I think it's normal to feel very guilty and like nervous about doing that. But then yeah if it's like endangering the safety of others and like this is somebody who really shouldn't be in this position of power like sometimes that that's what needs to be done. I think so. This feels totally justifiable. Yeah, totally justifiable.

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58:40Banking services provided by Cash App's bank partners. Visit cashapp.com slash legal slash podcast for full disclosures. This next one is coming from Am I the Asshole? Two months old. Titled, Am I the Asshole for using my friend's nail clippers and kind of screwing things up with his girlfriend. Take me on this journey. It is a journey, my friends. So this got way more dramatic than I expected, and now I'm not sure if I actually did something wrong or if this is just completely blown out of proportion. I, 30 male, was house-sitting for my friend Tom, 32 male, for a few days while he and his girlfriend were out of town visiting her family.

59:20It wasn't a huge deal. I've done it before. I was feeding his cat, watering his plants, bringing in his mail. He told me I could crash there if I wanted to and to help myself to whatever. On the second morning I was there, I noticed I had a nasty split nail on my thumb, like one of those deep ones that keeps snagging on stuff. Of course I didn't pack my own nail clippers and I didn't want to leave it, so I figured I would just use his. Not a huge deal, right? I've known the guy for 10 years. We've literally shared food and beers and stuff. It's not like I used his toothbrush. So I found the clippers in his bathroom drawer, used them once, just on my thumb, not like I went on a foot trimming spree, ran them under hot water, wiped them off, and put them back where I thought they went.

1:00:08Anyways, a couple of days after he gets back, he texts me, quote, hey, did you use my nail clippers? I said, yeah, sorry, had a split nail, cleaned them after, figured it was fine. he says quote okay but then a little later he calls me and goes quote so now there's kind of a problem what turns out his girlfriend noticed they weren't where she left them question mark question mark question mark and asked if he used them he hadn't but instead of just saying it was me, he says he didn't know who used them, which now makes it sound like someone broke in or snooped around the bathroom while they were gone.

1:00:52She's apparently super germ conscious, and now she doesn't want to stay over until the bathroom has been deep cleaned. She's creeped out. I told him, dude, just tell her it was me. It's not like I was going through her stuff. I used one clipper, cleaned it, and left. He says no because now he's already lied, and if he comes clean, it'll be a whole thing. And she'll think he's gross for not caring that someone used them. So now I'm weirdly trapped in this lie he made up, even though I offered to tell her myself. I get that I didn't ask at first, but I genuinely didn't think nail clippers were that personal.

1:01:30I didn't touch anything else, didn't damage them, didn't even mention it because I figured it was a non-issue. But now, apparently, I've, quote, violated trust. And there's this whole narrative that I disrespected their space and now she's mad at him and everything's tense. Am I the asshole for using the clippers or for pushing him to just tell her the truth? I feel like this all went way off the rails over something super minor. I'm so confused about this. I mean, first of all, having a brain where you would even notice that the nail clippers are in a slightly different place from where you left them, I can't imagine being that like organized in my head.

1:02:10I wish I was that organized that's but like amazing but we did she not know that he was house sitting at all and also why is it like a lot so this guy was like i don't know who used them why would it lie to be like oh i found out who used them that's what i'm like dude i'm so confused about this why are you making your own issue like this is a non-issue you're making it an issue by just not communicating and wouldn't like wouldn't she know someone was house sitting and maybe that would be the first assumption. So she thinks someone broke in. And used the nail clippers. And used the nail clippers.

1:02:44But nothing else is missing. And I like she's a germaphobe. I wonder if she like genuinely has like contamination OCD. Yeah, which is really bad. And like, that's difficult. That's tough to work through. To work through. Yeah. And then, yeah, especially if you actually think someone broke into your house. But like didn't take anything. That's just used the nail clippers. I mean, you never know why someone might be breaking. Maybe they were canvassing. That is true. And I've had a couple of cases on Clues where the serial killers would like break in before or like that was the start of their stuff.

1:03:20And they would like ransack houses and like eat people's ice cream and then like not steal anything. Everyone who's listening is going to start getting so paranoid about things being in like a slightly different place. I'm so sorry. Did I eat all my ice cream? I know. Yeah, I'm just this seems like a very easily fixed communication issue, which is why I'm so confused by this. Like, why does he think she would be mad at him being like, oh, it was my friend. Sorry. I don't. That's what I'm confused about, too, because I think the initial answer, like, oh, I don't know. It slips your brain. Yeah.

1:03:54That's not a lie. But then it's like, oh, you ask your buddy. He did use them. You say, hey, babe, actually. I figured it out. It was just Tom. I asked him since, you know, he was cat sitting for us. And Tom used him. Instead of, like, letting her think someone broke into the house. Way worse. Way worse. If you're like putting the two on a scale, like I'd rather someone use my nail clippers versus someone broke in and went through our stuff. Absolutely. And that's the only thing he used. At first I was like, why is he using their nail clippers? But split, like split nail? Absolutely. I know. I mean, you see that coming.

1:04:25You got to get ahead of it. Something bad could happen. I just, I felt it too. When he was like, you know, it snags on stuff. I'm like, oh, yeah. No. Quick fix. Quick fix. I am curious if you think if your house sitting for someone and like you use something, do you have to disclose? like everything like hey um Michaela I actually I used your can opener and then I needed a q-tip so I took a q-tip and then no I um I did wipe my ass so you are a little lower on toilet paper now I would never expect any of that maybe there are people with different opinions on nail clippers though I don't know I personally don't care because my fingernails are generally quite clean And like, I don't think you could also just soak your clippers in some alcohol.

1:05:10Yeah, I know. I don't think I would. If I ate someone's food, I might be like, oh, by the way, like you might need to refill the Cheez-Its because a hurricane came. But yeah, no, I don't think that you need to disclose stuff like that. I think if you have someone that's coming into your house to do you a favor, like watch your pet water your plants, like I think they can have a couple beverages. and I would probably ask snacks. I would probably be like, hey, is it okay if I use this? But again, I would I wouldn't feel offended by someone doing it. I know. Well, especially when the guy I just like looked up and read to his friend did tell him like you could crash there if you wanted and to help yourself to whatever.

1:05:54Yeah. If someone's sleeping over at your house, like I generally prepare a lot of things for guests but then it's also like and anything else that I have forgotten to specifically provide you with like feel free to ask or like use whatever food in the kitchen use whatever tools use anything yeah you know this is so weird I don't know why people are so scared to have like basic conversations with their partners yeah because also on the flip side like if I were her I'd be annoyed that my partner's lying to me over something so silly yeah no and then making me spiral more How are we going to handle big conversations?

1:06:29Literally. Very weird. Are people in the comments also confused about why he won't just say this? Because I need, like, I feel like I'm missing something almost. So the top comment on this one. Tom put himself in this situation by line, and his girlfriend is super weird for wanting the entire bathroom deep cleaned over a pair of fucking clippers. She obviously doesn't know you stayed there. Because, gasp, you might have sat on the toilet and took a shower and maybe even used a towel. Colin has Matt not the asshole okay so is is the lie actually that he doesn't want to tell his girlfriend a friend stayed there because of her contamination anxiety which is kind of what the next comment in response to that one says okay right like it sounds like there must be a bigger lie Tom is covering up yeah but then who did you think was taking care of your cat and your plants right right maybe she thought that he hired someone and they weren't using any of like staying there or whatever.

1:07:28But I would just be like, yeah, we have to have a conversation about this. Like I needed someone to watch the cats. My friend was willing to do it for free as a favor to me. He probably used some stuff. But I know you struggle with contamination anxiety. So let's have some cleaners come. Like that's fine. And this is something we kind of see a lot in these Reddit stories where like people lie about the smallest things. And it's like, if you're willing to lie about the small things, How can I trust you with big things? Yeah. You shouldn't have to disclose nail clipper use and it shouldn't be a big deal.

1:08:00And she's coming from a place of like probably does have OCD or something. Yeah. Like severe germaphobe. And that's, you know, that's tough. That's a battle she has to work with. But like, you don't need to make it worse by lying. Oh my God. Wait. Yeah. I feel that her anxiety would get so much worse now finding out that like actually he does have people come to the house but like doesn't just tell her that that's the case yeah because then she could probably set boundaries and be like okay they can come and stay and take care of the cat and the plants but can they stay out of our room but now she's probably like oh i need to like clean everything before i use it because he's not going to tell me if someone came to the house and she doesn't know what got touched yeah so if the nail clippers got touched everything else probably got touched yeah everything so it's like you're making it worse by not just being an adult.

1:08:52Yeah. It's so weird. People are fully convinced that Tom is lying about having people stay there and stuff like that. I'm gonna go look at the account, see if we ever get any updates from OP. No updates, only one comment. It is a newer relationship, so I've only met her a handful of times. That's why I wanted to just tell the truth because I'd hate to mess something up with Tom. So she doesn't live there. It doesn't sound like it. Okay. If it's newer, I would assume no, if it's newer. I just think this is something that having a conversation and having clear communication would be so beneficial for, like her being very clear about her boundaries of like, hey, I know this isn't typical, but this is something I've struggled with my whole life and like I'm trying to get better about it and it hasn't gotten better.

1:09:45But, you know, if you have other people in the bathroom, like, could you let me know and I'll just like clean it before I use it or like things like that. Like there has to be working together in order for this to work. And he doesn't seem willing to do that. No, no. But no, you don't need to disclose. You don't need to disclose on that one. But this next one, we'll see. We'll see. This episode is brought to you by Revolve. If you're looking at your closet right now thinking, no, none of this is working, just go to Revolve. I love that they have the brands I actually want. There's always something new and I can order a few options because the shipping is fast and the returns are easy.

1:10:27Go to revolve.com slash THT to shop my faves and use code THT for 15 % off your first order. Offer available for a limited time, so don't miss out. This episode is brought to you by Chrysler. Life with kids is basically a never-ending series of plot twists. One minute, everyone's buckled in. The next, someone's dropped a snack, lost a shoe, or needs a bathroom break immediately. That's why the newly designed Chrysler Pacifica is built for real life. With thoughtful features like stow-and-go seating, hands-free sliding doors, and passenger seating up to eight, it helps keep everything moving. Because family life isn't about the perfect moments, it's about making the most of any moment.

1:11:07Visit your local dealer or Chrysler.com to learn more and schedule a test drive today. Chrysler is a registered trademark of SCAUS LLC. Okay, I'm ready for your story now. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited to share this with you. For the first time ever. Okay, this is coming from a different place. It's r slash relationship advice and it's 31 days old. Okay. Not too new, not too old. I like it. Okay, how do I tell my friend that he'll never date an influencer-like girl? Hi everyone, this is a sensitive topic and I want to approach it as respectfully and compassionately as possible. I, 27 male, have a friend, also 27 male, whom I've known since our freshman year of college.

1:11:56He's never really dated, at least not that I'm aware of, and he never seemed particularly interested in pursuing anyone seriously. He'd occasionally mentioned girls, but it was always in a vague or surface-level way. Two years ago, I broke up with my long-term girlfriend and re-entered the dating world. That's been a whole journey of its own, but that's another story. Since then, he's started talking more about dating and women. I think he now feels like we're in the same boat, and honestly, I'm glad he's opening up more. Here's where I'm struggling. My friend is an amazing person. Funny, smart, thoughtful, a great cook, and he has a solid job.

1:12:31But on a purely superficial level, he's not conventionally attractive. Some people might even consider him ugly. When we were younger, that kind of thing might have mattered more. But now that I'm dating again, I've realized how much broader and more complex attraction can be at our age. There are so many different kinds of beauty, and what I find attractive has definitely evolved since I was 18. Unfortunately, my friend doesn't seem to see it that way. He only seems interested in women who look like Instagram influencers. Very stereotypically hot. And being brutally honest, those types of women are typically looking for guys who match their aesthetic.

1:13:10And he just doesn't fit that mold. It's starting to really hurt his self-esteem. Not dating is making him feel like he's worthless. I've tried to gently steer him toward more realistic and fulfilling possibilities. For example, a friend of a friend often compliments his cooking. I suggested he ask her over for a homemade dinner sometime, and his response was, she's ugly. That really bothered me. At our age, I feel like we should be past this superficial mindset and actually see people for who they are. I don't want to shame him or be cruel, but I also don't want to sit back and watch him spiral because he's chasing an ideal that's not going to happen.

1:13:47He's not going to date or hook up with supermodel-type women. That's just reality, and it's okay. There's someone out there for him, someone who will love him for who he is, but he's blocking those possibilities because of his narrow idea of what's attractive. How can I talk to him about this without sounding condescending or mean? I want to help him see his own worth without reinforcing unrealistic standards. Any advice would be appreciated. This is really tough. It seems like OP is coming from such a good place. I know. At first I was like, damn, you're just calling your friend ugly like that?

1:14:25Which I still think. I'm like, you in the same breath are saying like, everyone is beautiful in their own way, but then you're still being like, but he's ugly. Right. Yeah. I'm just like, ugh. I think you can just like keep trying to be like, well, why don't you give so-and-so a shot? Like, why don't you open your mind a bit more? Like, you never know who you could end up really liking or falling in love with. Like, give it a shot. But other than that, let him find out the hard way. I think this is a very tough position to be in. I don't know if it would be right to disclose. Also, like people can date anybody.

1:15:05There are some very famous women and I don't want to shame any specific people. So I'm not going to name exactly who those women are and who they're dating. But it makes one stop and think. Yeah. there's like like it technically could happen for him i think the reason he's gotten to this point is just that like he isn't dating anyone and it's hurting his self-esteem that he's been single for so long but he also won't budge on this like they have but the most important thing is that looking this very specific way yeah which is interesting i mean everyone's entitled to their attraction preferences.

1:15:43Right. I think you could maybe give a little tough love. I wouldn't say like you'll never end up dating an influencer type model. Like, yeah, because never say never, like never say never, really. But I think you could be like, hey, you know what? Like, I think you're being a little closed minded. Yeah. Clearly you're unhappy being single and like something's got to give. So why don't you consider some other people, maybe branch out. You never know who you're going to end up liking like get some practice dating at the very least yeah like come on and I I mean I know this is the case for women especially like attraction changes so much over time and like the more you get to know somebody the more attractive they become and the more that you know about them so maybe I would approach it from that angle of like you know there are people that like I've met and maybe upon my first meeting with them, it was like, oh, this is just friends vibes.

1:16:41But then like something about them over time really grew on me. And I think you've got too narrow of an expectation right now. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. Your expectations are too narrow. Cast your net a little wider. Otherwise, you're not going to see all the fish in the pond yeah so not disclose but maybe like yeah ways around encourage some expansion of the horizon yeah yeah I think that would be good I mean and at the end of the day like you can say this and then he can choose to take the advice or not right and then he'll be alone probably won't and that sucks and then you just gotta let him let him do his thing and like I I know I have had like conversations with friends where like they kind of continue to have the same problem and it's like you can only give your advice so much and if they take it yay if they don't there's nothing you can do about it yeah and if it keeps coming up as an issue that they're constantly you know mentioning or complaining about or venting about or whatever like you then have the choice to like set that boundary where you're like hey you know what I've heard about your dating quite a bit we've had the conversation that maybe you should expand your horizons and like try dating other people you're not willing to do that I really don't want to keep hearing about this because it's it's really it's almost stressful for me yeah like can we talk about other other topics yeah like you can do that yeah I've given you my advice like you don't want my advice buddy again yeah that's hard because like we've all been in that situation with friends where it's like you keep giving this friend advice and like they're not taking it and there's just nothing you can do so at the end of the day like you then need to control what's good for your mental health and if distancing yourself so you don't hear about those problems yeah like that's an option and especially if it's like oh my god you're still complaining that you can't be with a supermodel and like when you say it like that like damn like oh my god we have to be realistic but we can't be mean about it no um the top comment i really like by the way okay yay they say i find that guys like this often aren't chasing something they find attractive they're chasing approval by other guys oh they want a trophy wife they want other men to see their insta model girlfriend as a status symbol i think the best thing to do here would be to try and counteract that narrative in his head.

1:19:07Compliment women that are not conventionally attractive in front of him. If he calls someone ugly, say, no, she's not. She has a really pretty smile or whatever. Don't engage in any weird lusting over bombshell women behavior. If asked, empathize that social media isn't real or dating a famous person must be super annoying or that it looks like it requires a lot of upkeep. Hopefully, if you model healthy... Damn, that's crazy. Hopefully, if you model healthy dating behaviors, he catches on and comes back down to earth a bit. I mean, overall, it seems like a good tactic. A little bit of a Jedi mind trick, which I usually love.

1:19:44Yeah. I think that is like a good thing to point out too. Because like he could be coming from just like kind of an emotionally immature place. Like, you know, if he hasn't had dating experience or like he could look at Instagram and be like, what I'm seeing on Instagram. Right. 100%, no Facetune there. Yeah. So like he could even have these unrealistic standards in his head and like all he's seen is that. And so that's what he thinks he should get. I know. Yeah. Because all of the people that they're listing here, like Instagram models, supermodels, it's all like people that they do not know in the real world.

1:20:20Yeah. And I think you go on Instagram, you go on TikTok and like it kind of goes back to our conversation in the first story of like you think you have a different warped perspective of what the real world actually looks like. Yeah. And like you can go to an airport and there are thousands of people and there's not one person who looks like that sometimes. Like it's really not the actual reality that we're living in. No. And there's so many people that are doing it right, being themselves. And there's so many influencers that are like feeding into that really bad, toxic, like ideal. And I think a great example is like I don't really follow her, but I saw a video of her the other day and it's Olivia Ponton.

1:21:01that sounds super familiar i think there's like rumors about like her and joe burrows or something right now but she posted a video and it just popped up and she's sitting there crying in the airport like she can't navigate the airport which hey been there that's real and then she's like not wearing makeup like has a breakout and i'm like as someone who's having like the worst adult acne of my life like i'm like so relatable there's no beauty filter on her video and i'm like i love to see that yeah I love to see that that that seems real I love that and then you have like other influencers that are like literally gymnasts and still face tuning their photos to make themselves even smaller and it's like yeah what why and like why yeah and even like people who are preaching about like those types of things might still be face tuning their photos and like no having these filters on and like I'm not above I I use filters on sometimes when I found out that what the TikTok beauty filter was I found out about the TikTok beauty filter a year ago I was like oh this makes a lot of fucking sense because I have been scrolling my feed and being like how are all of these people naturally appearing in the wild this is shocking to me and I was like I'm throwing that on a couple of videos too I know I mean I I do like that on Instagram it shows usually if there's like a filter on it.

1:22:23Yeah. But people just like they see that and now they find a workaround. Yeah. Now they do something else. I know. And that's the part of the disclosure. It's it's tough. And and it seems to be affecting all genders, like which makes sense. It makes sense that it would be like, OK, women are feeling insecure. Men are their expectations are crazy. Like you think that everybody out there is just looking like that? Like, I know that is not the real world. No. So, OP did reply to that first comment earlier and said, I think you are right with the trophy comment. You've put into words what I've been thinking for a time now.

1:23:01We all have insecurities and his is this. Maybe he's looking for a way out of the insecurities using women instead of actually facing the root problem. And then. That's deep. Yeah, I know. Like, this person's really thinking about it. And he used whom properly as well, which I really liked. Oh, my God. Justin would love that. Like, I don't know whom, whom, who, whatever. Who, who, who. You just replace it with him or he and whichever one makes sense, then you know. No, it's like math. We're not. No. Too hard. And then he did say because other people were like, wait for him to figure it out on his own.

1:23:34Yeah. He said the figuring it out on his own has been my approach for two years and it obviously hasn't worked. I'm writing this after an uncomfortable situation the other day in a bar where he basically made a fool of himself by making inappropriate jokes to a group of girls. I know he's a jerk and I know I should not tolerate certain comments I should start answering back immediately instead of after the fact yeah maybe he'll learn like this some gentle parenting but also at the end of the day like you don't have to be his friend if like you know he's a jerk and you know he's shitty like yeah let him just keep doing his thing and being single and not finding someone that's going to be a good partner and cares for him and you go on and live your life and I feel like you can self-aware king You can say like clearly holding out for an Instagram model isn't working for you without having to explicitly say because you are not attractive enough.

1:24:27That's true. Like this method that you have of like waiting for a supermodel to come around and fall out of the sky. Like that's not happening. So why don't we try something else? Maybe he needs the tough love. After now knowing this has been two years. Yeah. Like it's no wonder OP is kind of going crazy. I'd be going crazy. And like making rude, like, I don't know if this is saying that in the bar where he made a fool of himself by making inappropriate jokes to a group of girls means he was calling them ugly or if he was just being sexually inappropriate to girls who didn't want anything to do with him.

1:25:00It sounds like one of those two situations. I know. I could see him being in a bar and being like, well, you're a five. Yeah. You're a four. So at that point, that's when I'd be like, dude, like. Bye. We've got like, yeah. And why not call him out? yeah like what you're annoyed by the behavior it's frustrating to be around you haven't called him out you haven't addressed it in the moment time to start otherwise like why even be friends with him yeah what's he offering sounds like he was a more jokes compelling friend before he ever talked about dating literally like literally well that's all she wrote over there i guess we're kind of saying disclose a bit like disclose nicely disclose with tact yeah and I think that's a general rule with all disclosures like yeah I hate the saying oh well I'm just brutally honest I hate that no you're just brutal honesty isn't just like automatically moral I know and there's there's more to that saying where it's like honesty without tact is just cruelness or something like that like there is a saying like that no I think you've said it before it was um like honesty without kindness is this and then kindness without honesty is something irresponsible something yeah I'm like butchering my saying right now but I think like if you're gonna make a disclosure it should be tactful it should be kind it shouldn't be like using it in a moment where like and I've oh my god you guys I've had to oh yeah the moment the moment that you choose to do it is so important this is so important like I've had just like some communication issues like with my dad lately and just like trying to like find times to record his show and like we're both really busy so there's got to be a lot of give and take and there's just like this this thing that keeps coming up and I don't know how much I want to get into the drama right now Ooh, drama.

1:27:02But essentially, like, he isn't getting a plus one for the wedding just because of, like, issues regarding that. And so there was something that came up with, like, trying to find a recording date and, like, a thing being an issue. And I, in the moment, just wanted to be like, this is exactly why you're not getting a plus one to the wedding. But I held it in. Yeah. And that's the reality. Like, it's like, that could be the truth. Yeah. But in this moment, it's going to be so emotionally charged and hurtful. Yeah. Whereas if you approached it in a neutral environment without any kind of heated conversation going on, you could have potentially a conversation where you both come out of it having gained something.

1:27:42Exactly. And it's all it's all about like the tact and the timing. And it's like you want to be the most effective. It's not going to be effective if you're super emotional or like the other person is coming from a weird place. Like you have to really have a sit down conversation. And like, that's just life. Like, I'm not perfect. My family's not perfect. Like that is life. And it's like, how do you address it? So like you do have the best time or the best relationship and like carry it forward. And so it's hard. Like this guy needs to address it before it accidentally comes out in like a heated moment.

1:28:16You know what I mean? And it's so on his mind and been bothering him for years now where it's like I could easily see them getting into a fight and him just spluttering out. Well, you're ugly. And that's why no Instagram models want to date you. I don't know. You know, I know. You know, it's so hard knowing when and where and how to address certain things. But it's got to be addressed. Yeah. For sure. At the end of the day, like disclose. But I don't think there's any situation in which you need to tell your friend, hey, you're not attractive. I agree. I think that we had a similar story on a bonus episode.

1:28:53I don't know if it's out yet. It will be. It's like it's a very different perspective, which is fun. Yeah. It is kind of an inverse of it. Mm hmm. Yeah. It's a good story for sure. It's just like we don't need to be humbling our friends with like malintent in our hearts. But I don't think that this person was ever coming from that angle. It's just like. No, this person doesn't seem like he's a hater. Yeah. And I think that other story, it's very like that person was trying to humble their friend. And it's like, why are you friends with someone if you don't even like them? Yeah, you're a hater of your own pride.

1:29:26I think that was that energy. Yeah, for sure. OK, moving on. I've got a couple more for us. This episode is brought to you by Vinted. Season is changing. Time to clean out that closet and maybe make some extra money in the process. Vinted is a secondhand marketplace app where you can sell your clothes you no longer wear and get more value out of your wardrobe. It's super simple to use and with no selling fees. So you keep what you earn. Give your clothes a second life with Vinted. Download the Vinted app for free to start listing with no seller fees. This episode is brought to you by Credit Karma.

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1:30:41So toxic. And it's very fresh. It is two days old coming from r slash off my chest titled, my wife thinks we're soulmates. I think I settled. Oh, if I take back my ooh. We've been together for nine years, married for six. She is kind, loyal, sweet, smart. She loves me deeply and she believes we were destined to meet. I treat her well. I've never cheated. We laugh together. On paper, we're perfect. But if I'm being honest, I've never been in love with her. I cared about her, yes, but I was heartbroken when we met. She came into my life when I needed stability and comfort, and I mistook that for love.

1:31:29I kept thinking it would grow. It never did. Now we're in our 30s. We talk about kids. She looks at me like I'm the best thing that ever happened to her, and I feel like a fraud. I don't want to hurt her. I don't want to blow up both of our lives. But every night, I lie awake, feeling like I stole the future of someone who could have had real epic love and i don't think i'll ever forgive myself for it we i'm like heartbroken and that wasn't even that long and like i feel so attached to the i mean yeah like she she deserves someone who loves her i know she like she deserves someone who looks at her the way she's looking at him oh just that's so sad i also like my fear is that the guy in the last story is gonna end up like this guy of being like oh i think i settled like i think i i mean i mean this this guy seems like he's potentially not coming from a negative place it's he's not like she's ugly and i could do better he's just saying like I I've just never really been in love with her which is really heartbreaking I know am I reading that right did he say anything yeah no he's literally said like I've I was waiting for the feelings to grow I I thought it would come and never did and it's just it's sad because I think you know there's another post I saw and I I don't know if we'll get into it on this episode maybe we should maybe we should but it's about kind of like disclosing things and it's just like I think people do things out of obligation get married have kids it's it's those societal pressures that are making it feel like that's what you should do what you have to do yeah you don't have to do anything and so for this guy I feel like he was like oh well she's nice she's smart she's sweet she's loyal have to propose you know we've been together so many years.

1:33:32And she feels so confident that I'm the person she's supposed to be with. And I mean, I have definitely felt this way in a few relationships of like, I could fall in love with this person. I feel like this is someone who so many people could fall in love with. Like they're, they're so wonderful. Like they're, they're XYZ, they're all of these things, but I don't feel that way about them. But like, because they're so amazing I'm sure that has to grow like I'm sure that I would get there and then you know it doesn't and inevitably I have to be like all right I guess that's not happening but I can understand feeling like someone is so amazing that like you are bound to get there with them and like not wanting to let go of such an amazing person but at a certain point it's like oh it's really not happening for me like I'm really not getting there and I never have been I know and it's it's crazy that you would go nine years it's crazy that you would propose and right that's what like really confuses me and it's like even out of obligation like that's a crazy thing to do out of obligation and societal pressure like it honestly is scary because for her it's not like she hasn't felt the love because if she hasn't felt love right she probably would have ended it or like you know moved on or not said yes to a proposal so it's like he's definitely displayed these things and he's faked it which is like honestly really selfish too it's like is that a psychopath kind of like behavior like you know what I mean where it's like you're not even being real like you're completely putting on this front this persona this mask that like in your head you're like I don't love her yeah but if you asked her I'm gonna say the things I'm sure his wedding vows were beautiful yeah you know I mean they're talking about kids yeah they're talking about life and like growing old together and it's like she's gonna feel like the rug got pulled out from her that's such a good point of like of course I think as I was saying earlier she like deserves to find somebody but to hear now that your husband and a person you've been with of nine years like has not loved you this whole time what mental damage does that do to you going into any relationship going forward and like trusting that people really feel the way about you that they're saying and like just how many insecurities and like not trusting your own self will that now bring up is it almost better to just be like I've fallen out of love with you or I get like damn this actually is a hard conversation about disclosure because it's like we just were saying about honesty not always being fully the right thing to do I know is I don't know is it best here to be completely honest about never being in love with someone or will that just hurt them unnecessarily like I think that he should break up with her and like give her a chance to find someone but this would this would really do a number I know I'm curious what you guys think as far as disclosure and honesty with this one like I definitely think they need partial to get divorced yeah they both need to move on like he she really deserves the chance to find someone that loves her and so does he yeah you know he did this for whatever weird you know reason in his head but yeah do you say i've never been in love with you or do you kind of like white lie truth it where you're like you know as we've grown older i just realized i want different things and maybe call it a midlife crisis I don't know like literally put it on you I don't I'm just not in love anymore like I've noticed that my feelings have kind of changed and it has nothing to do with you and like I don't know like I feel like you need like a therapist involved to prevent like the most damage like you need to prevent as much damage as you can yeah I'm very curious about audience comments on this one because I I'm unsure about what the right thing to do is i know and so it's like you probably should involve a therapist like you yourself dude should go to a couple sessions and be like this is how i feel how do i have this conversation and like protect her feelings as much as i can because it seems like he wants to do that based on this write-in like i know this write-in is like it's obviously a shitty thing he's done but it does seem like he's like he's not malintentioned but it was like it's it's past it's passive hurting somebody it's passive like it's it's selfish it's taking the easy route and someone else is the um what's it called when someone else gets hurt because of your actions like you're caught in the crossfire like it's not yeah yeah she's the collateral collateral she's the collateral of you just like passively not facing your own emotions and not and not taking this seriously but then yeah again then I'm like maybe she should know the full truth because how do you fully like go back through it and heal from it and like understand what happened if you're getting a different like then she may be wondering when did it change like how did I not notice when it changed like I don't know because it's gonna hurt no matter what I think mentally it would mess me up more if I found out that my husband never loved me because if I started dating again and like a person was showing me the same things proposed to me which seemed like love I'd be like I can't trust anything yeah like it's all fake and then that questioning of those relationships is going to cause those relationships to end because no one wants to be like questioned on their feelings for you all the time you know and that's something that like I've seen come up where it's like my girlfriend does not trust what I tell her and it's like are you sure you love me are you sure you love me?

1:39:22Are you sure you love me? Do you love me? Do you love me? It's like that can instill doubt in the other person that's being asked that constantly. So you do have to have that trust. So it's like, how do you allow her to move forward after this big bombshell? I'm curious if you guys think disclose on this one, maybe this is the poll we do on this episode because this is crazy. Because he has been doing what's easy for him this whole time. And the only thing that's right now is to make it as easy as possible for her in this breakup yeah and I think that's fair there's no way it's gonna be easy but like yeah no oh it's so tough it's so tough I just like don't even know what to think of it the other post I was thinking of that is super similar is also from like true off my chest.

1:40:17So same kind of like off your chest vibes. And it's titled, I found my dad's secret Reddit account and now I can't look at him the same. I'm going to read it on Patreon for you guys, but essentially it's kind of like this person found their dad's Reddit account that said similar things to this guy and was just like, oh, I'm not in love with, I don't love my wife. I don't love my kids. And so this person's like, wait, I'm the kid. Like you regret having me? like what oh that's so heartbreaking so we'll get into that on patreon but i think it feeds into this one it feels really similar oh i'm subscribed to the patreon immediately that's crazy i need to know so op has since removed the post oh wow they themselves took it down no moderator involvement here and the top comment is may this love never find me yeah which is literally what I was thinking as I read the post myself nightmare like worst nightmare yeah that comment only has 694 upvotes right now like it seems like this post has kind of flown under the radar a little bit next comment down to that is this went on a few dates with a guy recently we were around the time things should start to get serious he was perfect but I had a weird feeling in my gut, so I told him I felt like I was the smart choice, but not the one that he wanted to make.

1:41:42Lo and behold, he told me that I tick every single box he could think of, and even the ones he didn't know could be ticked, his words, and that's why he kept seeing me, but he feels nothing for me whatsoever. Oh my god. Why would you want someone like that for yourself and trick another person into it. I'll never understand people like OP. I do feel like this happens. I mean, there's that whole thing about like a lot of the time men will marry someone because of the timing in their life being like, oh, like this is now I'm ready to get married. So whoever's around is like who I'll marry. Yeah.

1:42:23There's like also kind of like a convenience aspect of having a wife that's like a little bit different and I don't know like I I do think love can grow between two people yeah in so many situations and to like have this expectation that love could grow between you and somebody else isn't that crazy like arranged marriages happen in most of the world and like amazing love grows out of that but if you have this like feeling of like oh this is really just the smart choice like you should disclose like I don't know I know because there might be someone that just wants a relationship of convenience yeah they just want someone to like live together and have an emotional connection with on a basic platonic level and like there are those relationships out there like some people want that yeah but they don't want anything physical or whatever and like I don't know I feel like OP doesn't necessarily know what he wants or who he is and like I don't I want to be crystal clear like I'm not saying this is necessarily OP I'm not saying OP could potentially be dangerous I'm coming from a place right now of like I've recorded four clues episodes this week and like my brain is like very true crime and I think there's like this crazy thing to me in a lot of the cases we have especially serial killers that have families and kids yeah and some of the most like notorious ones do and so we just did the case of Dennis Rader who gave himself the name BTK and he was very involved in the community.

1:43:56He was a church leader. He had a wife. He had a kid. What does BTK mean? Bind, torture, kill. Oh, OK. Very bad. Very bad. Yeah. And his daughter was like, you know, giving interviews and like has since like wrote a book after he was convicted. And his daughter is just like I never ever would have imagined he was a pretty good dad he built us tree houses and like all this stuff but then like you listen to him describe what he did and he's so emotionally detached and it's just like there's this disconnect of like he did what he thought was normal and what he should do but did he ever like yeah no I know feelings I know what you're saying you're not saying like op is this person no but there also is a dangerous type of person who will go with the they they struggle with emotions and they struggle understanding societal expectations themselves like personally emotionally so they just do what they see other people doing and like what seems to be socially normal yeah and like then get caught up in that type of life and like that is very scary.

1:45:05That. And it's like, create the own normal that you want to live. Like, don't follow all of these societal expectations. Like, if that's truly not what you want and you have to mask or put on this front to do that. And I think this comment is interesting. And maybe this, I've like glanced at the first line. So I'm like, maybe this is what I'm trying to say. And like, a cohesive way, because my brain is like fumbling today, it feels like. But this person goes, A lot of people consider a partner or spouse an acquisition rather than a fellow human you're doing life with, much like a job or a car.

1:45:41They feel getting one is an important life milestone and you hope for the best one you can get. You don't have to be overjoyed being at work or driving your car. It just has to provide you with everything you want from it for what you put into it and be of sufficiently high quality to feel proud of having. But relationships don't work like that and a lot of people get way too far in before they figure that out that's also sort of like partially what i was trying to say earlier with the instagram one model one yeah yeah that is literally like that mindset yeah and is that from all of like the societal pressure that i keep talking about like where does that stem from there are definitely like a lot of people who their biggest desire is to just like fit in and like seem normal and seem like they're doing all of the things that you're supposed to do in this life to be normal and I don't know that's got to be a tough thing to unlearn or like undo the person who posted that initial comment about the guy who like ticking the boxes or whatever people were like how was he with you like what did he act like and they go on to say he was perfect.

1:46:54In fact, too perfect. It's maybe a stupid metaphor, but I felt like he was treating me like a beautiful and expensive painting and he somehow came in possession of and had to treat it like a treasure for no other reason but its price. He was not treating me like an old picture of your grandma that you found somewhere and that reminds you of her and makes you miss her while it has no monetary value. You want to make sure you hung it properly and protect it at all costs. Does that make sense? By all means, he's a great guy and the moment I brought up how I felt, He took it seriously and basically candidly admitted to it.

1:47:23But this is not love. This is not enough and never should be. That's such a good metaphor. Like, that is such a good way of describing it. Amazing. Yeah. No notes on that. But yeah, that's kind of all we have on this one. Obviously, OP removed the post. I don't think we're going to get an update. But again, if you want that other story, it's going to be on Patreon. The one also from True Off My Chest titled, I found my dad's secret Reddit account and now I can't look at him the same. I think it's kind of in the same vein as this and is going to be an interesting conversation for sure. Yeah, such a good disclosure, such a good topic because it's like really the gray area of a lot of these situations.

1:48:04Like, actually, I don't know what the right thing to like this is. There's not a moral rule book in the world where you can like clearly find the answer of like, how is the best way to go about this situation? Yeah. And there's also that saying, too, where it's like, are you telling someone something because it's going to make them feel better? Or apologizing. Or is it going to make you feel less guilty? Yeah. And so it's like, why are you actually telling someone something? Is it to clear your own conscience and it's going to make their life exponentially worse than you maybe shouldn't tell them?

1:48:38Yeah, you really need to be thinking about like when you do things from the angle of like, what will be the outcome of me saying this for that other person? Like what will happen if I say this to like, even like things online, when people get mad about things online, I'm like, is this an actionable thing that you're saying? Like, like, what do you think will come out of this in a good way? Or will this actually hurt the cause that you're fighting for? I just feel like approaching things from an angle of like, what will my words actually do? And like, how will it impact these other people? And will it actually create what I'm hoping will happen?

1:49:17Or will it just feel good to say this? Because we're oftentimes just saying things because they will feel good to say them. Exactly. So ask yourself. And I think like we can have takes on these stories. But like, you could ask me a similar story and I might have a totally different disclosure answer. It is so context by context. Or if I'm going through something different that week, I might like have a difference. I could have fully evolved as a person over the next six months. Like maybe a friend pissed me off. And like now I'm really sensitive to that topic. And so now I'm. It's a sore spot.

1:49:46Yeah. I think that's what's interesting about this show. It's like I can. One, I can't listen to old episodes. I cringe. Cringe. But it's like we're constantly evolving in our takes, in our thought process, our experiences. is so like no like you cannot hold me to a take I said a month ago you know what like you cannot hold me to a take I said two years ago like I am hopefully always growing in a positive way yeah like this isn't my permanent take like I could very easily see a comment the second you post this episode that completely changes my perspective and then I'll be like oh that like that's really changes the way that I look at this and that makes a lot of sense and I've never had that experience.

1:50:33So now that I'm reading this, like I do have a different opinion. I know. And that's important. That is so important. I think for all of us to feel that way. Because that's how you grow by having conversations and trying to find middle ground and like connecting on things. I think that's like especially important in the times we're in right now. It's like we need to get to a spot where like we can have conversations and kind of like come together and like grow and like otherwise like how do we move forward yeah and I love seeing comments that are like very constructive in a way where like you're providing your own opinion because I read that and I'm like oh that's your thought process yeah oh my god that makes so much sense and then it helps me grow in my thought process I love or getting a therapist to comment on the story about is it okay for a therapist to do this like that's so interesting yeah or like if you've been through something and you're like no Morgan like I've been through this here's my take on that story yeah I love love seeing your takes like it it helps us grow like it's really all of our all of our hot takes it's a village you guys it's a village I know it's probably like what is it now like maybe it's not just two anymore no we got to change the show name I'm Like, how many of us are out there now?

1:51:52Two million? Ten million? Like, ten million hot takes? Like, the show has reached a lot of corners of the world. That's beautiful. Beautiful. Okay, I only have you for a few more minutes. This is going to be, I think, a straight off the bat one. Whoa. Last one for us today. Coming from our very own 2HotTakes subreddit, 15 days old, titled, My boyfriend kept asking me to moan louder. Turns out he was recording me. This still doesn't feel real to write. I, 25 female, have been dating a 27 male for a year. Things were good. We had amazing chemistry and he made me feel sexy until recently. He kept asking me to moan louder during sex.

1:52:38At first, I didn't think much of it. Some people are just into that, but it got to a point where it felt forced, like I was performing, not enjoying. I told him it made me self-conscious. He said it was just a turn on and dropped it. Or so I thought. Last week, I used his laptop to log into my email because mine was glitching. He'd left a folder open by accident. It was full of audio files, literally labeled by date. When I clicked one, it was me moaning, saying his name, our sex, recorded without my consent. I confronted him immediately. He didn't even deny it. Just said it wasn't that serious and that he only used the mic, not a camera.

1:53:23Like that made it better. He also admitted he, quote, shared a few clips with his friends in a group chat as a joke. I dumped him on the spot, blocked him and filed a report. His friends have tried texting me to chill and that he's going through it. Good. I hope he rots. I feel violated in a way I can't even describe. Oh, he should die. Yeah, he should die. That's disgusting. He is a terrible person. Saying it was a joke and then having his friends defend him too. All of you fucking suck. You're all the worst. He sent it to these friends. That's so awful. It just kept getting worse and worse. And then like trying to turn your intimate sexual relationship like into pornography.

1:54:10It's like porn isn't real. like there is a reason that that doesn't feel natural for her and it's like it's making her uncomfortable like that's just like not like he he wants it to be a show for him to show to his friends and show later instead of like actually having a good sexual experience with her you know to be crystal clear you always need to disclose if you want to record yes you need two consenting parties for things like that and that's what's like so weird to me in some states you can record audio it's a like a one-party state you don't have to tell the other person you're recording them which is even of that like weird even of even of a sexual encounter sexual always yeah always non-negotiable and then sending that even if it's like then that's revenge porn yeah no she's got a case yeah and this is a two hot takes listener out there like i'm so sorry i'm so but i'm so proud of you for dumping him on the spot and reporting and just like i'm so and he tried to gaslight you and be like oh it's just a joke and like all my friends think it's fine it's fine it's not a big deal why do you think it's such a big deal you you should be shot it's a huge deal it is a huge deal yeah you can't involve someone else in something and not disclose what you're doing yeah especially in relation to sex yeah come on consent is key consent is makes it fun consent is necessary and needed yeah it's like sort of just the most important part of all of it and some people would be into recording she even might have been had he approached it in like uh oh i just want one to save for later like the fact that he wasn't asking her that shows more like he either knew she would say no or he got off on the fact that she wasn't consenting to it and he was like sneakily doing this hell no hell no top comment he's going through it he and his friends are morons and none of them should get into a relationship keep pushing for the charges don't let the police or him stop you pushing forward absolutely keep us posted op i know a lot of us would love an update and sending you all the support all the support that's just so invasive so invasive to go through yeah i'm so sorry but you got this keep pressing as the top comment said those charges that's all i got on the disclosure theme i loved this we'll have way more on patreon because i have literally 20 other tabs open and i feel like they're all pretty good stories i know they're all your children it's like which one do i like let go of i know that i sit here even as we're recording i click through all the tabs and I'm like oh my god what is gonna like make the people happy like I always think about like what you guys want story-wise and also what do you want for episodes coming up I would love to hear any themes you guys would like to see any guests you'd like to see I really try to curate a show you guys will love and like I give myself anxiety probably picking these stories I've wanted to do like kind of a happy feel good theme but traditionally like those episodes don't perform well so I'm like do you not want feel good I'm like just let me know what you want maybe like one at the end or something I don't know I know is the feel good sandwich was that a good tactic for these episodes I can try to structure more of those episodes and themes so just let me know you know we're heading into august very soon i've got my wedding coming up in september so i'm really trying to work ahead and get ahead on stuff and you know this is a village as i've said it's a community and want to make sure you guys are getting content you love but other than that head over to patreon we've got new merch out limited run on certain items so head over there that's all i got yeah thanks for having me always a pleasure queen a regular i've had so many people say i just gotta tell you i love mikaela becoming more of a regular no way that's awesome i just did an interview with batches not how you say it why did i say it like that i feel like that's kind of how you say um and marissa dow over there who listens hi marissa and she was like i just gotta tell you i love mikaela coming on yay i know that's Awesome.

1:58:34I know. It's always a good time. Thanks, Divas. I love these episodes. But thanks, guys. And until next time. Bye. Bye. Bye.

1:59:03Thank you.

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