232: Twists & Turns

30:58No, I don't like this at all. One of the main bodies that people would take pictures of on their way up got loose and rolled down the hill. Are you joking? No. People would take pictures. Number one, people would take pictures of the body. That's disgusting. Oh, they're famous. Like green boots or whatever they call the one. There's a whole documentary on this one guy that actually just went up to get his brother's body because he wanted it back. Yeah. Which like totally fair. No, that would make sense. But like, yeah, there's a lot of bodies up there. I think I'd be pissed off if someone was like taking pictures of my loved one up there.

31:29Yeah. That's tough. I didn't know about that. Okay. I know. Well. Now you know. Now you've de-influenced me from ever wanting to do Mount Everest. No, I think out of anyone I know, I feel like you could do it. Oh, thank you. I feel like you could do it. I think I could make it to the base camp. I don't know if I could get any further. I don't want to try. I don't want to try. Yeah. Justin, one of his best friends, his fiance, just like randomly was like, I'm going to do Kilimanjaro and did it. hell yeah like what she's just a little bad i love that that so you're gonna do something go do it crazy crazy but moving along to this next one this episode is brought to you by talk i a tree when your mental health is suffering finding the right treatment can be overwhelming that's where talk i a tree comes in talk i a tree is an online psychiatry practice with licensed psychiatrists who can evaluate diagnose and provide ongoing medication management when appropriate they accept major insurers, can treat anxiety, ADHD, depression, and more, and you can schedule your first visit in days, not months.

32:32Go to takiatry.com slash hot takes to get matched in minutes. That's T-A-L-K-I-A-T-R-Y dot com slash hot takes. Takiatry.com slash hot takes. This episode is brought to you by Vinted. Season is changing. Time to clean out that closet and maybe make some extra money in the process. Vinted is a secondhand marketplace app where you can sell your clothes you no longer wear and get more value out of your wardrobe. It's super simple to use and with no selling fees. So you keep what you earn. Give your clothes a second life with Vinted. Download the Vinted app for free to start listing with no seller fees.

33:14okay buckle up y 'all this is another one that was originally posted to our two hot takes subreddit yes i love these they feel so much more personal knowing that it's like one of us out there yeah and that they will really actually maybe hear what we have to say about it i know it is scary that's one thing too when people are like do you think all the stories you read are real and i feel like yeah most of them obviously it's reddit we're gonna get some that are fake and spammy and whatever. But it doesn't mean that even the fake ones haven't happened to someone because anything is possible in this world.

33:49But when I meet someone at a live show and they're like, this happened to me and oh my God, you should talk about it on the show. I'm like, uh-huh. I'm like, if that's happening to a real person I'm meeting, then all these other ones are very plausible. Oh yeah. This one, very plausible. Here we go. My old stalker is back and my husband is making me feel like I'm the crazy one. Hi, sorry, this is my first time writing in and I don't know what to do, so I'm just going to jump in. I'm using a throwaway because I'm sure my actual account is being watched. Also fake names. So I, 32 female, and my husband, 33 male, have been arguing a lot recently over my old stalker.

34:31For some background, back in college, I was 24, I dated a guy, let's call him Fred, for around two months. Fred was interesting, to say the least. To save time, he had several red flags once we started dating, so I dumped him. Fred acted like he couldn't care less, so I thought that was that. A few months go by, and I'm starting to see Fred everywhere. I see him at the grocery store I go to, my go-to nail place, my favorite restaurants, etc. I thought it was just a weird coincidence, so I left it at that. A year after our breakup, he starts messaging me, telling me he was the happiest with me and that he misses me so much.

35:12I called bullshit and I blocked him. Then things escalated. Fred changed numbers every time I blocked him, made new social media accounts, and I started seeing his car everywhere. I tried getting a restraining order against Fred, but since he hadn't done anything to me, they couldn't do anything. A few months later, I was walking to my car at night, Fred, coincidentally, saw me walking alone and offered me a ride home. I said no, that I had my own car, and I kept walking. Fred proceeded to get out of his car and tried pushing me into his car. I punched him and ran to my car. Hell yeah. I drove away, and luckily, he didn't follow.

35:54I tried again to get a restraining order, but it was basically his word against mine. They gave me a temporary restraining order, but that's it. I was terrified of even walking outside and deleted all my socials. Thankfully, a very close friend, let's call him Pete, stepped in to defend me. Pete ended up threatening Fred, and I finally stopped hearing from Fred. I felt free and slowly got back into my normal life. Now to present day. I'm now married to my husband. I've graduated from college and live alone with my husband. We moved to a nearby city and bought a house together. Sadly, a month ago, Pete died during his sleep, and I was absolutely devastated.

36:37I've known Pete since I was in high school, and he was my closest friend. To be honest, I'm still not over his death, and sometimes I can't believe he's gone. But guess who heard about his death? That's right, folks. Fred found out and is now back. I received texts from Fred a few days after Pete died. I now see him everywhere, and he's insisting that we talk. I just walk away and ignore him. I've reported him, but nothing has happened, so I deleted my socials again. Friends have been telling me Fred has been asking around about me. He's asked if I moved, what I am doing lately, if I have other social media accounts, etc.

37:18I'm honestly terrified. I've moved since I finished college, but somehow I see him at my gym, grocery store, park, etc. It honestly makes me believe he never stopped watching me, and it's terrifying. I've told my husband about everything, and he says I'm overreacting, or just plain ignores my concerns and changes the subject. I've argued that he doesn't care, and he argues back, asking what do I expect him to do. He says that Fred doesn't know where we live and that we'll just change gyms. My husband is telling me to change my regular routine and stop going to certain places. He says it's no big deal and Fred is harmless.

38:02I'm like, Fred tried to force me into his car. How is that harmless? My husband has been distant ever since this started and I feel alone. I don't want to tell my friends in fear. They will tell Fred. I can't go to my family because I'm in no contact with them. And of course, my husband could not care less. I need advice. What do I do? Am I crazy? Should I just change my gym and my routine like how my husband says? Part of me just wants to move completely, but another part is basically asking myself, why do I have to uproot my life and change everything because of him? Can't he just leave me alone?

38:41It's been like 10 years already and I want to move on from this. Should I just talk to Fred hoping he'll finally leave me alone? No. That's really tough. This is terrifying. Also, well, number one, your husband sucks. Absolutely. What? At the very, like, even if you don't understand, like, the idea of someone stalking you, you should still, like, feel her fear and like be supportive of her and help her out it's insane if i told justin i have a stalker and i'm scared the last thing he would be like is oh well change your routine i guess you shouldn't get your coffee anymore and you shouldn't do this and you shouldn't do that like he's he's fine they're fine so what do you think it's like he's just gonna relearn her routine he's learned it now why would he not relearn it how is that gonna help stalkers adapt like yeah Alejandra has talked about having a stalker way in the past on an episode and like they adapt they find different ways to get to you like when they're that unhinged in the head it doesn't matter what you do they are gonna find a way he also clearly knows where they live why would he not oh he does he has all he has to do is watch her come out of her house and see what her new routine is I just don't think that would be that hard.

39:58I mean, if he already knows what gym she's going to, you just follow her home from the gym. Exactly. Like it's so, so unhinged. To say he doesn't know where they live is actually crazy. Yeah. And like he definitely knows where you live. If he's finding you at the gym, he probably already put a tracker on your car. I see. I'm not even thinking that far. You're right. She's there could be a tracker anywhere. Yeah. You immediately have to start like getting those little scanners and making sure there's no hidden cameras on your stuff like I don't think she's being paranoid I don't think she's overreacting coincidence no there's no coincidences with stalkers no that he gets threatened and then once I'm also sorry for your friend yeah so sorry for that and that you have to deal with this as well and the fact that then you're going through this insane tragic loss of your best friend and you have your stalker reach out days later that's like almost it like over right like you're already sad about this and then the fear is just going to be like even worse completely overwhelming i i mean the fight or flight response your nervous system like i would be i would be crashing out like i would be really really difficult for me And the thing is, I don't know what the solution is.

41:15I mean, because the police are no help. And still something terrible happens, which sucks. It's like, what are they? They've already told her they can't do anything, which is stupid. I know. It's really, really unfortunate how bad our system is at dealing with restraining orders and protecting people, especially women. There was just a double homicide in, I believe, New York. And this woman was a veterinarian. Her ex-boyfriend was a cop. And he kept harassing her, kept stalking her. She tried to file a restraining order after restraining order. It's going to be even harder because he's in with them.

41:53Yeah. And so she didn't get it. She started dating this new guy who was either a firefighter or like volunteer firefighter. And the cop ex-boyfriend came in and killed them both. Like believe people. Like if you're out there in law enforcement, like take the report. Like I would rather be safe than sorry. Like. But can they like legally just not take like what? I don't understand. I don't. I don't. I'm not a lawyer. I don't know. I don't know. And I wonder if there's anyone out there like who's involved on this side of things, whether law enforcement or lawyers, like, do you say like, I want you to then document that you're not filing something?

42:26Like, can you ask for that? Yeah. Like, does that help? Can you get a report that or a statement that you came in and attempted to file? Like just by the time like there's enough like evidence to file, it's kind of already too late. I know. And it shouldn't be like that. No. I mean, what what harm does a restraining order cause? Like if someone's coming in genuinely out of fear and saying, hey, can I have a restraining order or even like something maybe not as serious, like a temporary protective order? I'm not sure in the scale of things, which is, you know, ask for the less severe one and just something to have documentation at the very least.

43:06But like, but you need the people on the other side, the law enforcement agencies to like, there needs to be an initiative there where people are believed and helped. Yeah. It's really frustrating. Really frustrating. Because like, the only thing that I can think of is somebody else in her circle threatening him again. And I don't know what the relationship between Fred and Pete were. Yeah. Clearly, Peach Threatt was like severe. Like, he was scared of Pete. I mean, he stayed away for about 10 years. Supposedly. That other comment. Which is also really spooky. I know that comment from OP where it's like, I don't think he ever really went away like that.

43:47That would actually. To have your whole sense of peace just like shattered. Because like if he wanted to stalk her and not be seen, he could do that. He clearly wants to be seen. Yeah. Insane. Top comment on the post. I would actually consider divorce over this. the way he is completely dismissing your very valid fears would be a deal breaker for me he says fred is harmless ask him what makes him believe that the fact he is telling you to just change your routine makes my blood boil if you change your routine the stalker feels satisfaction because he is able to control part of your life by what he is doing i didn't even think about it like that either that is terrifying from a psychological he knows he's getting to you Yep.

44:34Ew. And then next comment down. Yeah. Quote, husband, if Fred is harmless, as you say, why should I change my routine? Those two things don't go together. I don't think he cares at all. No. I don't think he believes her. Someone goes, I've been around long enough to be suspicious that maybe Fred wrote the husband a letter or met him somewhere and had a brief conversation. And that's why he deemed Fred as harmless. because a man talks to another man and therefore he is harmless that would if i was the husband that would weird me out i know what what yeah a lot of people are just irate at the husband i'd call husband on his bluff and demand we move states or even countries okay darling your idea is really great let's change our routine by moving away from fred but realistically divorce I think just the way he like doesn't care at all is like divorce worthy yeah it's insane we do have a couple comments from OP people are asking like what does your husband like actually think and OP goes my husband thinks I'm overreacting and says if anything happens that Fred will end up in jail and I hate when he says that because what does that even mean if anything happens what if she dies That is a very real reality when you have someone this unhinged Right And OP goes on to say Do I have to end up in a ditch before I can finally be left alone?

46:04That's what I'm saying What do you mean? I think this man just has like I don't even know what it would be called But you know how men are just not scared of like Being harassed the way women are He just has like no concept of what it would be like Yeah and I think that's like That's kind of a common thing maybe but you should still have empathy for what your partner is saying you absolutely should and I'm really curious like because I've asked Justin about this and I'm like do you ever think about getting kidnapped and his answer is no and so maybe that's kind of the same thing where it's like a lot of you know guys out there can't really conceptualize the fear from a stalker because it's not a real fear for them or it's not an everyday thing it's not to leave your house and have that thought thing.

46:50Yeah. And I know there's always exceptions to the rule, but like if you're a guy out there listening, like, I don't know, like, can you be empathetic even though it's not a real fear for you? I would assume so. A hundred percent. Especially when it's your partner. Your partner says, I'm scared. And you're like, meh, you're fine. Fred will go to jail if anything happens. What, you don't understand the law at all or our justice system at all. That is a lack of knowledge. What has to happen, babe? Yeah, something illegal. Why do I have to be collateral damage because Fred can't get a clue? Right.

47:30I hate him.

47:34Dumb man. I know. OP does go on to say in another comment, I do have a protection pack and I carry a bat in my car just in case. Ooh, she ready. I've been changing up my routine hoping I won't see him and it's worked a bit, but not entirely. Yeah, because he's still going to figure it out. It might help. It might work for like a couple of days until he relearns. So we do get an update. This episode is brought to you by Vinted. Season is changing. Time to clean out that closet and maybe make some extra money in the process. Vinted is a secondhand marketplace app where you can sell your clothes you no longer wear and get more value out of your wardrobe.

48:12It's super simple to use and with no selling fees. so you keep what you earn. Give your clothes a second life with Vinted. Download the Vinted app for free to start listing with no seller fees. This episode is brought to you by Cash App. I myself have fallen for a scam, thought I was getting a really good deal on tickets, and bam, I sent the money and I didn't get my tickets. There's so many common scams these days and finding all the red flags can be hard. That is where Cash App comes in. Keeping your money safe from fraud deserves to be a priority and Cash App treats it that way. With security lock, Cash App requires a successful face ID or biometric authentication to access your account.

48:53It's like your money is protected by your own personal bodyguard even if your phone is lost or stolen. Plus, if you're about to send money to someone new and Cash App notices something looks a bit off or that you might be falling for a scam, it will send you a warning before the money is sent to confirm that everything looks right. Download Cash App and spend with peace of mind today. Download Cash App today and make your money work for you. Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App's bank partners. Visit cashapp.com slash legal slash podcast for full disclosures.

49:26I'm stressed about this update, actually. Yeah, so this update came a day later. Small update and some information about my stalker situation. I'm still new to posting on Reddit, so for the first part of my post, it should be on my account. My friends don't talk to Fred, and they are aware of the situation. Fred has reached out to them randomly asking about me. They have reported and blocked him as well. Now for the update. Last night, I decided to have a serious conversation with my husband one last time. I sat down with him and explained the whole situation again. Told him how scared I've been and that he needs to take this seriously.

50:03I wanted to show him how terrified I was. how small I've been made to feel, not just by Fred, but also him. How his lack of support and concern for my own safety is making me question our marriage. I asked if he'd even do anything if I was found in a ditch. That is sad that you have to say that. Yeah. He was silent the whole time while looking at the floor. We sat in silence for a few minutes before I got up to pack my things. My husband proceeded to cry. He apologized and said he'd make this right. Good. He said he didn't want to overreact in fear of scaring me more, but when in reality, it made me feel alone.

50:45My husband has been looking into Fred without my knowledge and has found out where he works, lives, and even Fred's family contact info. He wanted to gather more information about Fred before contacting a lawyer. I'm like so shocked by that. I'm confused. Buddy, you don't have to keep the tough front up. Tell me. Tell me you're on my team. Yeah. You know what I mean? What is he thinking? Like, no, no. Great. I'm so glad you're doing this. I'm so glad you're doing this. But come on, man. Make her feel good. Like, make her feel safe. Make her feelings feel validated. That's what everyone wants in a partner.

51:24Like at a base level, like just you hear me. She can help you look into him, too. You don't got to go do this by yourself. You're not Batman. Come on. But like, thanks for doing that, man. We're both taking a few days off of work to get our ducks in a row. We're getting a lawyer and gathering evidence of Fred's harassment. We're also currently looking for a therapist so we can both talk about this whole situation and other issues we have in our marriage. I also have some voicemails Fred has left me, and I officially think he's lost it. I have an Apple iPhone, and you're able to see voicemails from blocked numbers.

52:00Some of the messages are of him saying straight-up gibberish, while others are as if he's having a conversation with me. He says things like, quote, Oh yeah, babe, I get off of work late, so tonight is a no-go. Or, quote, I'm off, so you can come pick it up right now. No? Yeah. I don't know. I can't do this anymore. There's a lot of fashion in my life. It sounds like he's having a conversation, but it's no one else, just him. And it's terrifying. Well, he's probably on drugs or something. Or having an active psychosis. Yeah, that's true. My husband does feel bad and is trying his best to console me.

52:45He has apologized repeatedly for making me feel lonely and has been more supportive and open. Currently, he's looking through my car to check if there's anything that might be giving my location to Fred. I'll keep you all updated if we find anything or if anything else happens. Thank you for all the advice and support. And OP ends it with, I've posted another update. I think you can find it on my post. I was just be like, I just knew the next update. so the first update was coming from may 23rd of this year the second update is june 6th so 13 days later almost two weeks later update number two wasn't sure if i should make an update but decided to anyways to maybe get some more advice thank you to everyone who gave me advice and encouragement i finished listening to the book the gift of fear and it really opened my eyes to a lot.

53:39Now, on to the update. After my husband didn't find anything in my car, I still felt something wrong, so I took people's advice and took my car to a mechanic. Told the mechanic about my situation and if he could take a look at my car. And, to my horror, a couple of days later, my mechanic found a small little cube that was placed under my car. At first, I really wanted to believe it was just a part of my car or something, but my mechanic explained that it wasn't and it was deliberately hidden. The cube is really small and magnetic. I called my lawyer right then and told them everything. I got pictures of the GPS and where it was placed.

54:21I thanked the mechanic and drove to my lawyer's office. At this point, I was shaking and wanted to cry. How long had the GPS been there? How long has Fred been following me without me knowing? Was he watching me at that moment? Is he going to add another one? He called my husband to meet me at the lawyer's office and told him everything. At the office, I just wanted to disappear. I wanted to run away and not look back. I was terrified and I felt so violated. Knowing I was being watched for who knows how long, with everything we had gathered, my lawyer was able to get a temporary restraining that same day.

54:56Thank God. We are currently going through the process of getting a restraining order while I will have to go to court and see Fred again. That sucks. My lawyer says the process can be long and draining, but it's something I need to do to get for my own safety. I got a bit scared and had my husband's car also checked for anything. Thankfully, nothing was found in his car. I started feeling watched at home, so I had my whole house turned upside down looking for anything. Maybe Fred had placed there. Again, thankfully, nothing was found. I've told neighbors about what we found and to keep an eye out for anyone suspicious.

55:33I've also started my safety training for handling a gun and shooting and still trying to get my CCW, but it can be a long process. Thank you again for everyone who has given me advice and I'll keep you updated if creepy Fred tries anything. Wow. Wow. That sucks that she has to do all of that. But I think, I mean, you said it from the beginning. There was probably something on her car. I mean and I do know I did know that they like to hide those yeah you can't just like oh what's this well and the hard part is to like this wasn't an air tag so if like if someone places an air tag on your car and you have an iPhone your iPhone notices would alert you the two following you and will say like unknown air tag is this yours it even does it with air pod pros if they're in the case.

56:23Oh yeah. Mine will be like left behind. You left them behind. Or like if I have Justin's like in my bag, cause I borrowed them and I'm driving all over town, like running errands, it will be like Apple device following you. Is this yours? It'll even prompt me with the AirPods because people were leaving one AirPod behind as like a trick. So Apple has like seemingly put in measures that help protect people from their devices getting used inappropriately. Yeah, but this wasn't an air tag. No. And it was clearly, why are these a thing? Like, why are these being made? It's really crappy. And they're not like looking here.

57:03They're not even expensive. Like you can get a tracking cube like this for$24.95. There's no way. What did you search? Tracking cube? Small tracking cube magnetic. Nice. And there's so many. It's literally there's a product called Cube Tracker. One year battery life, 4G LTE real time tracking. $74.99. So he just goes in every year and replaces his cube. Magnetic car GPS tracker. One year battery. Like there's multiple of these things on the market. And why does somebody need that? I mean, I get it if you're going to like put it on your car as a safety feature. Like if you have a brand new car and it's prone to getting carjacked.

57:45That's what the air tags are for. but then people can disable the air tags so it's like they do they have products like this but that's the hard part like there's so many products on the market that are meant for good it's meant for good and then the evil they find the evil yeah it's just like ai but that's a whole other topic yeah i just saw though that companies are like scaling back their ai because it hasn't made them any money it's like just been a huge loss good that's stupid i'm i hate ai i i don't understand it like I I think in certain regards it can be used to increase your productivity like I know someone that uses it constantly to help with their schedules or meal plans or things like that it's also really bad for the environment and there's that but then some people will argue and say well if you eat cow if you eat red meat that's way worse than AI no I do I think AI is the worst but yeah eating meat is also terrible for the environment yeah and factory farming is a big contributor listen I was a vegetarian for eight years I tried my best wow that is a big commitment it was see I don't I'm off the cow for the most part not I'm off the cow I'm off the cow except like around my period all I crave is a cheeseburger so I have an occasional burger that's fine dude habit burger you should sponsor me because those little grilled onions on those burgers oh oh they're good i yeah i'm really hungry right now but um yeah i mean seemingly like positive update that's the last update we have oh so i expected another one i'm not gonna lie op hasn't posted anything in well i wonder if she like just shouldn't be sharing information about what's going on as well is that and a lawyer might have told her that because op hasn't shared any new information in three months.

59:38She's probably just going through it. Yeah. But I mean, restraining order was granted. Yeah. And then lawyer said, you're going to have to go to court and it's just a process. And that is really hard. Like imagine being so scared of someone and then you have to go face them in court. Like that's horrific. I remember when I was working at one of my mental health facility jobs, I had boiling coffee thrown on me. And the police showed up, they took my report and they were like do you want to press charges and where did they throw it on you um like all over my arm and like my my like neck and chest and I was wearing like a sweater and like still got like second degree birds no that's it's yeah it's really hot boiling water yeah and I remember them just being like you'll have to go to court and like she might show up to court but like she's a you know obviously a resident of this facility like the chances of her showing up aren't even good they're like you might not even want to press charges and that interesting like they really discouraged me not to and I I do understand that because it's like oh I would have had to deal with her again I would have had to face her again and all this stuff and I'm like at the time I was younger like in grad school didn't really know what to do and in my head I'm like well these police are telling me not to press charges and like yeah I don't I don't want to see Janet again like I guess I better not but in this regard like this is someone who has truly tormented her.

1:01:00And I can't even imagine how difficult that would be. I think just like that sucks that she has to deal with this. She didn't ask for any of this. She's just like, like you either get stalked or you have to go through all of this. Yeah. Added salt in the wound or another layer of trauma that you did not need and is not your fault, but are getting put through. But you have to deal with it. Especially when the husband was not on board at first, because then there's this added layer of like, I mean, the original title. My old stalker is back and my husband is making me feel like I'm the crazy one.

1:01:32Like your person who's supposed to believe you, love you, protect you, isn't doing any of those things. I would love to know what he was like thinking in his brain to be like, this is a good idea to like pretend I don't give, I don't care. And that's so strange because in the background, he's doing all this detective work into him. So it just goes against what he's saying because he does believe her. yeah so just just tell her tell her that yeah what I know don't try to play it cool you guys like if if your partner is out there and you just just be on the same page like I hear you yeah what can I do to support you like even if you don't know what to do because I find like me and Justin sometimes like I'll be venting I'll be so stressed I'll have this big issue and he'll try to like give solutions but like then it just like makes me feel worse in those times like we've kind of come up with this like strategy because of things I've learned and it's like do you want help a hug or support like what do you want and like if he he'll start to ask me that now and I'm like I just want to feel like I'm being heard yeah just listen that's it like that's it sometimes there's not really a solution it's just like this is just it is what it is yeah like that's super shitty babe like I'm so sorry you're going through that do you want to go get a burger nice little distraction are you on the cow this week yeah because and also like maybe i'm wrong but i just feel like if they had investigated together it would have maybe like strengthened their relationship as well if they were like doing all this work together so i'm just confused by him i think that absolutely would have strengthened their bond because then it's like she feels supported she feels heard she's got an ally in this fight because like i mean the main thing was is like I have nobody in her original post my friends aren't close to him I don't want to tell them I don't want it to get back to Fred don't have a relationship with my parents my husband like her husband really just like added that extra layer for no reason absolutely damn don't do what he did OP if you're out there listening I hope all is well if you can't update again because of legal stuff.

1:03:41Totally understand. Feel free to send me a direct message on Reddit, but I really hope you're doing well and are safe and Fred is no more. Yeah. Screw Fred. Fuck Fred. Moving on to this next one, though. This episode is brought to you by Chrysler. Life with kids is basically a never-ending series of plot twists. One minute, everyone's buckled in. The next, someone's dropped a snack, lost a shoe, or needs a bathroom break immediately. That's why the newly designed Chrysler Pacifica is built for real life. With thoughtful features like stow-and-go seating, hands-free sliding doors, and passenger seating up to eight, it helps keep everything moving.

1:04:19Because family life isn't about the perfect moments, it's about making the most of any moment. Visit your local dealer or Chrysler.com to learn more and schedule a test drive today. Chrysler is a registered trademark of SCA US LLC. This episode is brought to you by Billy. I don't know about you guys, but I get a little lazy in the winter. I'm in hibernation mode and I grow out my leg hair a little bit, but it's getting warmer and now I'm excited for that first shave of the season. And if you are, then you got to get the Billy razor into your life. It's designed for how women actually shave, legs, pits, toes, happy trail, wherever prickles decide to show up.

1:04:57It has five sharp blades and a pivoting head, so you can actually get everywhere without doing shower gymnastics. And it comes with a magnetic holder so your razor stays dry on the wall instead of sitting in a shower puddle. Grab a Billy razor in your favorite color in store or at mybilly.com. Okay, I'm going to give you a choice, okay? No, okay. This first one is titled, Husband is Leaving Me But Won't Give Me a Reason. Big, okay. Option number two. Me, 26 female, and boyfriend, 29 male, of three years, just had our first baby. We're white. Baby is black. I have a close black ancestor, but significant other is furious and accusing me of cheating.

1:05:44Hmm. Probably that one. There's more going on there. There's a lot going on here. As the title says, me and my significant other just had our first baby. We're over the moon when we discovered the pregnancy, and we were both really excited to have a child together. We want, or wanted, to get married next year, and everything was going great. We were happy. We both look very white, pale skin, blue eyes, brown, and blonde hair. However, my great-great-grandpa was black, and some of his features have popped up here and there in our family. Textured hair, darker skin, more, quote, black-looking facial characteristics.

1:06:23My significant other knows this and has seen some of my aunts, uncles, and cousins who have these features. I don't have any myself, and neither does my mom. Our daughter was born five days ago, and I guess she just got all of the dormant genes in me because she's really dark-skinned compared to us with really curly hair. I think she's adorable, but my significant other flipped. He accused me of cheating, that the baby couldn't possibly be his. I've never given him a reason to suspect me of infidelity and I've certainly never cheated We argued about it. I pointed at all of my cousins and other relatives who have these features and he absolutely Refused to listen said our daughter looked too black for that to be plausible Ew He stormed out of the hospital sent me a text an hour later that we were over and when I got home from the hospital the next day, he wasn't there and most of his personal belongings were gone.

1:07:22I tried to reach him, but he didn't answer my calls or texts until three days later when he told me he demanded a paternity test to prove that I was a liar. And I bet it came back correct. And if I refuse, I'll never see him again. I feel like I would get the test just to like shove it in his face. I'm completely broken down and hurt over this. Our entire relationship, he's been so sweet and rational. This is completely unlike him. If he had just calmly asked for a paternity test to begin with, I would have been hurt, but I guess I could have understood the concerns. Our daughter looks nothing like him.

1:08:00But I don't think our relationship can survive this, even when I proved to him I wasn't lying. Should I go through with the test or just cut my losses here and raise her alone? I would do both. Want to shove it in his face. to don't go back with him. You have to get this done now. Yeah, no, no, for sure. Just because like, what do you mean? Genetics are crazy. Yeah, I was like, I don't know that much about genetics, but if there's family history. I mean, you have your ethnicity, you have your family tree, you know what your genetics could potentially be. And like, you're not surprised. Like you have other family members that share these features.

1:08:42And like, it's very clear that OP understands it. So it probably was a conversation before and it's clearly a conversation now. So the fact that he just like storms out, goes home, packs his stuff, leaves, ignores her. He's like pissed that it doesn't look like, but it's also giving like, I mean, it feels racist to me. It does feel racist. And to just jump from that to that, like babies look so different when they're born. They're going to change, yeah. Some babies are born with bright blue eyes and then their eyes turn completely different colors. Alejandra, when she was born, was pale, pale.

1:09:20Oh, really? Like really pale to where, I forget, she's talked about it on an episode, but her mom was like, whose baby is that? How did this happen? Because her mom is a Latina. So she was confused. She's like, why is that baby so white? Like they called her Casper when she was little because she was super pale and I'm pretty sure she had like red hair. Red hair? That's why. I know. So it's like you never know what you're going to get. That little thing was just smushed up in a belly for nine months. It just popped out. Their faces can be flat. Like they can come out with cone heads. They're not looking their best.

1:09:52You don't know what you're going to get. You got to give it some time to like, you know, cook out of the oven. Yeah, I think like the first view of a baby when they come out is not what they're going to look like even in a couple months. No. Have you seen that trend on TikTok where it was. I deleted my TikTok. Oh good for you Well there was this trend And it was mom's parents Sharing pictures of their baby And they were like I thought my kid was so cute When they were born But wow was I like mom blind Or whatever they called it And cute picture and you swipe And it's an alien It does not look like the same kid Yeah babies are Babies are kind of ugly sometimes Babies are hot take babies are ugly they're something they're something yeah so to have that initial reaction of just like i don't know just to accuse it like he just wanted a reason to get like he wanted out well from parenting it seems like that and imagine like even if this is the case like this is still your partner of multiple years you planned on getting married they're postpartum and you're just gonna do this to them and granted if there was cheating i know you know he's hurting but don't jump to conclusions before you have all the information like just take a breath yeah but don't you think like if she had cheated and she was prepared for the baby to come out looking like the man she cheated with it would have gone differently like she would have maybe been like don't be there when the baby's born.

1:11:34Yeah, like she would have been mentally prepared for such a thing. You heard that happening though. But then that story, was it on Patreon about the guy, the woman calling her husband and she like heard him having sex on the train and he was just like, no, no, no. I guess she could have done the same thing. People, yeah. Well, this episode was twists and turns. But I believe her. I don't think she cheated. Let's see what the update says. But my vote is you got to get the test done and then be done. Yeah, you just do it to prove your point and show him that he is an asshole for doing what he's doing.

1:12:16But like he's out for sure. Yeah. There is an edit on this post. I decided to get the test done. I'll update you all when I get the results. I'm still angry, but I guess I understand him a bit better now. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. We don't understand him at all. Mm hmm. Yeah. A lot of people were like, hey, his feels are are valid. And, you know, it's it's hard when a baby comes out not looking like you. I mean, I could understand an initial shock of being like, hey, this baby doesn't look anything like me. But like it to jump to cheat. I don't know. That doesn't feel right. Even if you jump to cheating, it's a huge overreaction to abandon your partner in the hospital and move your stuff out when they get home from the hospital.

1:13:02Because you have to, until the test is done, I think you still have to assume it is your kid. A rational person probably would. Him? He doesn't seem rational, yeah. He seems dumb. Doesn't even... Stupid. Doesn't even know how a big punny square works. I don't think I do either but like I know it better than he does A lot of other comments OP does reply to a couple of them Someone goes you're going to need a DNA test for child support So you may as well get one now What you choose to do about the relationship is up to you But you're going to need the child support And OP goes Wow I've been so caught up in this whole drama and taking care of baby I hadn't even thought about child support You're right I'll get the test done If only to make sure baby gets the best life possible Yes.

1:13:52Someone else goes, people are surprisingly ignorant of how genetics work. Anyways, get the paternity test just for his peace of mind, but understand that your relationship is irreparably broken and that he may sadly never show your daughter the sort of love or affection a father should show his child. This is a heartbreaking situation. I feel most for the baby and you, of course. But that little girl is going to face a lot of challenges in life looking like a black child to white parents. Talk to your more black looking relatives about this and do research on how to talk to your daughter about her ancestry and prepare her for some of the more stupid, bigoted, ridiculous things people are bound to say.

1:14:32And I hate that. That's so stupid. It's just disgusting. Like, who cares? Just people are people. Like what I don't, the hierarchy, I don't know, like it's still a thing all over the world and like certain like, like class systems are still a thing places and it's just like it's I want to get to a place where world peace like is actually like a thing it's crazy yeah we gotta we have a lot of changes to do before we get some world peace happening but yeah world peace sounds great world peace love it so we do get an update thank god comes five days later hey guys first off, I want to say thank you to all the original commenters who helped me see my significant other's side and calmed me down enough to take the test.

1:15:19Well, the results are in, and of course she's his. The whole process was absolutely ridiculous. I got an appointment with the doctor and texted significant other the time and location. He didn't answer, but showed up, and the entire time, he didn't say one word to me, and he didn't want to touch or even look at baby, and left as soon as they'd taken his sample, despite the doctor asking him to stay so we could go over a few things. Once he left, I just broke down, and I must say the doctor was really nice, didn't judge me or accuse me of anything, just calmly went over how the test works, and told me babies are often born darker than they actually end up being.

1:15:59Baby was an absolute champ, barely fussed when they drew her blood. I got the results yesterday. I texted significant other the news and asked if he wanted to come over and open it with me. After almost half an hour, he finally responded, yes, he'd like to come over. I'm thinking he either sent it while on his way or he's not staying very far away because he was here in about 15 minutes. Well, we opened it and read the positive test together. He turned white like a sheet and then just started bawling. I had to shush him because he was crying so loudly and finally I got an explanation for his flip out I mentioned in a comment on the old post that he was an only child to very old parents His dad died a few years ago and his mom lives alone a few hours drive from us I haven't met her often, but she seemed pleasant enough turns out she hates me Absolutely hates my guts and always has I had no idea about this She always acted kind of snobby, sure, but I had no idea she disliked me this much.

1:17:06When significant other called her to tell her the good news, eight months back, when we discovered the pregnancy, she started crying. He never told me this. And as the months passed, she continued being super negative about the whole thing and saying she doubted the baby was actually his. I was below them. Poor people cheat because they're raised in a fucked up environment. What the fuck? And instead of talking to me about this, Significant other kept silent while constantly doubting me more and more. Baby being black just put the final nail in the coffin that his mother was right and I was a good-for-nothing cheating bitch.

1:17:43After telling me all of this, we just sat in silence for a while. We're just taking his mother's accusation with no proof or anything to heart like that? I'm so confused. Also, fuck her. Poor people cheat because they're raised in a fucked-up environment. That was like, that was her reasoning? I don't understand. Okay, lady. Finally, he asked if he could hold the baby. I was still angry as hell, but decided that holding her was his right. He's her father after all. I went and got her from her crib, let him have her, and he started crying again. Which scared her, and she started crying too. So they were just sitting there bawling together for a while.

1:18:22Finally, he stopped, handed her back, and asked if he could come home. No. Don't do it. I was kind of taken aback. I didn't expect him to just flat out ask that already. I laid out everything I said in the last thread, how insanely disrespectful and childish he'd been, how he'd horribly broken my trust, hadn't talked to me about his mom's poisonous and ignorant comments, completely ignored me for three days, not telling me where he was or if he's even alive, and then he just waltzes in and wants to start living here again. I told him if he ever wanted to have some inkling of a chance of mending the relationship, we had to go to couples therapy ASAP.

1:19:02From now on, he will answer my calls and messages unless there's an emergency. He will not be staying here for a while, and finally, he needs to tell his mom to back the fuck off. She will not be seeing baby until she apologizes to me in person. He immediately agreed and finally told me how sorry he was for this whole fiasco. I'm not sure if I can forgive him for this, but I'm gonna try. We had an amazing life before this, and I hope that with a lot of work, we can have it again. Significant other also finally told me that he was staying in a hostel, but it's not very expensive, so he can stay there for a while longer.

1:19:41Good. Baby is doing great considering how many stress hormones she must have been drinking from me these last few days. Her hair is falling out, but the doctor told me it was normal, and babies often lose most or all of their hair when they're born. Okay. Thank you for all your help on the last thread. My mom agreed with many of you and thinks I'm absolutely nuts for trying to work things out, but I think it'd be best for everyone if we at least give it a shot, especially baby. Too long didn't read. I'm not a lying whore because mom is a bitch. We're trying to work things out. That was really good.

1:20:15I really liked that and that's the bottom line i'm a not okay okay i was but i'm like not on his side at all i don't care like why he did what he did i'm like there's not really any redeeming qualities however i like that she put her foot down she has very like strong boundaries yeah and i understand wanting to make it work because it would really suck to raise a kid alone it's definitely harder and I mean he's got his answers now. There's no question going forward. There's no holding anything over her head because baby's yours, dude. Nothing to... This is just genetics. Yeah. And you now have it all out in terms of the mom.

1:21:01Would I be able to forgive this? No, but I'm not in her shoes. So, you know, I would say no too. But if I was in the relationship, you know, it'd be a lot harder to just like cut it off. it would be I mean I've seen a lot of really bad toxic relationships in my life and a lot of them growing up so it was you know for me it was it was hard like finding out what a healthy relationship was because I'd never seen it really demonstrated for me as a kid yeah and it's hard because I I think you know people find reasons to stay and it's easy to it's easy to find those reasons it really is so for her to be strong and at least say like no you're not coming home yeah doing couples therapy her boundaries are great her boundaries are really good and i commend that because how easy would it have been for her to be like yeah move in because i need help new mom postpartum dealing with that on your own yeah and it does make sense like if your relationship was amazing perfect everything was great up until this one granted huge huge thing you wouldn't like look back and be like rose-colored glasses i want to get back to that we can get there his mom was the problem his mom was the real problem easy thing to like push off to the mom yeah i still hate him she should consider divorce i think she should think about that a little bit more yeah but it's not my decision no no i'm curious what you all think about this one what you would do if you were in op's shoes and op if you're out there listening i'd love another update this original post is 10 years old now oh 10 years old oh i don't know if We're getting an update.

1:22:54You never know. You never know. You never know. That'd be cool. They could be out there. That was so long ago. Yeah, they could be out there like, hey, yeah, we've got a 10-year-old and we're doing great. We've had two kids after. Like, you never know. So, OP, if you're out there and you hear your story, let us know. But moving along to one last one for us here. This episode is brought to you by Revolve. If you're looking at your closet right now thinking, no, none of this is working, just go to Revolve. I love that they have the brands I actually want. There's always something new and I can order a few options because the shipping is fast and the returns are easy.

1:23:31Go to revolve.com slash THT to shop my faves and use code THT for 15 % off your first order. Offer available for a limited time, so don't miss out. This episode is brought to you by Credit Karma. Breathe in. Now breathe out. You feel that? That's the calm of having Intuit Credit Karma in your corner. If you're trying to get your life together in this crazy world, Credit Karma is a great place to start with the money stuff. Your credit score isn't just a number. It can unlock better rates, more options, and real savings. So whether you're moving, leasing a car, or upgrading your cards, it feels good knowing your credit is working for you.

1:24:11When you start to feel like there's too much on your plate, you can count on Credit Karma for less craziness and more credit. Okay, this is an interesting one. threw me for a loop when I first read it. It's scary when you smile before, when you say, you smile and you say, this is interesting. It's coming from Best of Redditor Updates, titled, I found out how my roommate treats my cats when I'm not home. Oh, I'm stressed. I, 24 female, live with my cousin, 30 male. I have three cats, one adult cat, and two 12-week kittens. And whenever I'm home, he will be mean to them in a very joking and lighthearted way.

1:24:52He'll call them names. Fat ass, dumb ass, etc. But it's in that bullying as a love language type way, and I've never been afraid of him actually mistreating my cats. Especially because they clearly adore him. He plays and roughhouses with them. He pets them. But he never gets all lovey-dovey the way I do with them. Or so I thought. I live in a two-story townhouse with my bedroom being on the second floor, and I always keep my door open so that the cats can go in and out. Yesterday morning, I'd woken up but not gotten out of bed yet and my two kittens were playing on the landing just outside of my bedroom door.

1:25:30I hear my cousin start to walk up the stairs and I stayed as quiet as possible. I knew he thought I wasn't home because when I am home, he always calls up to ask me if he can come up. I have given him permission to go in my room when I'm not home to play with my cats. My door was cracked open about a foot and I see him reach his arm, he says, scoop and grabs a kitten. Then I hear about a minute straight of kissy sounds and baby talk. I'm just quietly watching from my bed, trying not to let out a giggle when he suddenly stops, slow turns and makes stunned eye contact with me through the crack of my door.

1:26:09When he realized I heard slash saw the whole thing, he got embarrassed and said quote oh i uh i saw them running around up here and thought i'd come play with them he laughed and said it was totally fine but he retreated back downstairs to put his tough guy persona back on the photo above is when he just sent me having a cuddle session with baby george tldr my male roommate pretends to be indifferent about my cats but secretly baby talks and loves on them when i'm not around as you should and then she's a kitty picture yeah It's like the cat laying on his lap And he texted This person and said he's been here Like this for 20 minutes Very cute He's so sweet So adorable I mean how can you not love a cat Multiple cats Kittens So cute Remind me to tell you this Cause I do Well I'll just tell you now Cause I might forget But so the other day we're at the farm working like and you guys, I went from our bachelor bachelorette trip that Justin and I took.

1:27:17We went to Minnesota straight after that for two weeks and just worked on the farm two weeks straight from the time we woke up until like midnight, 1 a.m. That's crazy. I am sore in places I did not know existed. I slept for like 24 hours yesterday to like basically recoup after this trip. I was so wiped. But my grandma pulls up and we're sitting there and we're like, oh, what is that noise? and she had made a comment. She's like, I think there's a cat here like on the farm. Like a cat must have showed up. And all of a sudden we're like planting stuff and I'm like, I think I hear a cat. And I'm thinking Justin's punking us.

1:27:55I like assume he's in the woods meowing and I hear this cat noise. Is he really good at meow sounds? I had no idea. But in my head, I'm like, we're planting these planters kind of in the parking area of the farm. my grandma's car is nearby and I'm like grandma that that meowing's coming from your car it's coming from your car I open all her doors I pop the hood is it in the engine we're looking everywhere in the engine we can't find anything sure enough my mom calls me a couple hours later you were right there's a cat in grandma's engine how does that happen this kitten must have been hitchhiking with her for at least a day or two how does it survive in the engine I don't know because it gets hot in there.

1:28:40Yeah. And my mom. How far was she driving? She doesn't go too far. Okay. She's 81. So, you know. She's doing great. She goes to like church and like, you know, bops around town. She's not taking road trips. Yeah. Okay. But my mom was like, it must have been stuck in there for a while because it's pretty skinny. I'm like, oh my God. So we don't know where she picked it up. And my mom. It picked itself up. My mom like really tried to get it out of there and like brought out cans of tuna and yeah, all sorts of stuff. So is your grandma adopting the... I wanted to adopt it, but it got out and then ran away.

1:29:15Oh. You know, so it's out there somewhere. Oh, that's a bummer to that story. That's a bummer ending. Hopefully it sticks around. The cat... I thought... I literally thought the cat distribution system had finally worked for me. Yeah, you would think that... And lo and behold, it runs away. Oh, I'm... That's actually the most disappointing, heartbreaking story... Ending to a story I've heard all day. Well, we have an update on this one, though. Oh, perfect. So it might shape up okay. Okay. Why do you look so traumatized? Because the ending to your story was sad. Yeah. And then you said shape up.

1:29:46I don't know. I thought you were going to go somewhere else with it. My roommate killed my cat. You never know. You said this was ups and downs. And we're up right now. We're super up. When it's up. When it's up. When it's up. When it's up. Have you seen the Cardi B trial clips? I think I'm offline. Oh my God. I'm going to send you a recap. Okay. So good. So this update is coming two and a half months later A while back I made a post About how I caught my roommate baby talking my cats And I have a new adorable development A couple of months ago I went on a family vacation So my roommate took care of my cats while I was gone During that week he accidentally started A new routine with them Each time he would fill their food bowls He'd stand there and give them pets and scratches While they ate After a couple of days they decided that this is now a requirement Only with him though they don't make me do this.

1:30:39Now, every day when he gets home, they run to the door to excitedly greet him and then they run to their food bowls. They'll sit there and yell at him until he goes over and give them their pets while they eat. The funniest part of it is that they free feed. I just keep their bowls full so they can eat whenever they're hungry. I know some people frown upon that, but with my work schedule, it's too unpredictable to keep them on a consistent feeding schedule and none of them are overweight. So it works for us. Even though they have constant access to food, they'll wait for him to get home from work to have dinner so that he can give them their scratches.

1:31:15That's so sweet. So sweet. I love kitties so much. And we ended on a happy note today. That's really nice. Thank you for that. I know. I think a comment that really has stuck with me lately is on the Angela episode. Someone came over. They were a Smosh viewer. It was their first time with two hot takes. And they were like, damn, these stories are a lot darker over here. You got to be careful here. Watch out. Watch out, guys. You know what? I'm immune now. Are you? I think so. Yeah, you've edited a lot. And I also have the paranoia brain. Like, I'm like, oh, what's they're cheating. Someone tells me something.

1:31:55Oh, they must be cheating. Okay, do you want a happy update? And again, I know we've talked a lot about Patreon on this episode. Just encouraging you guys all to come over because there's three full bonus episodes a month now. It is so fun over there. It's so fun. So we had an episode. It was me, Justin, and Lauren. And there was a story about this woman who was writing in after her husband accused her of killing his sister. Oh, yeah. Someone sent me the update. The last update that I couldn't find. she ended up and I need to like patch this in for my patreon people she ended up getting into the iCloud went through all of his messages and couldn't find anything so we don't even know what that so we have no idea just making up stuff yeah we initially on like patreon we thought incest like a lot of people were like they must be hooking up like these messages would be really bad if he thinks that OP would kill his sister over finding them but OP didn't find any messages of the sort So even more confusion now.

1:32:53Well, what if he deleted? He deleted. That's what I'm saying. Because like maybe there's a way to go like see deleted things, but maybe not from there. I know. I'm going to be doing a full updates episode very soon. From stories we've read in the past that have since had updates to updates we might have missed or didn't have access to, but someone had a screenshot and sent me. Whoa. It's coming. It's very, very hard to put together. and the last time I did it, we kind of gave a quick recap of the story and some people didn't like that and so people were like, if you could just include the reading and then read the update again, but that's a lot of editing to put on you.

1:33:32Yeah, guys, don't make me do that. Don't do that to Jenna. So I'm still working out the kinks of doing it and also just finding these updates is really tedious when we've read. I'm on my master Reddit spreadsheet that I have and on the stories tab and it hasn't been updated in quite some time. There's over scared. There's over 1300 stories we've read. Yeah, I'm not going to lie. Every time I edit a story goes in one ear out the other. Well, I couldn't tell you. It really trips me out when everyone's like, you've read this, you've read this. And then I search it in my my document that has all the links and all the titles and I can't find it.

1:34:15So then I start going crazy and I'm like, have I read it? No, I feel like if you bring up the story, I would remember it. But like if you would be like, what were the stories last week? I don't know. Couldn't tell you. Couldn't tell you. Couldn't tell you. Just enjoy the ride, my friends. But that's all I got for this episode of Two Hot Takes. Thank you so, so, so much for being here and head over to Patreon if you want even more content. Price for the top tier did go down. You get a whole extra bonus episode every month. And yeah, you do. It's been good. It's been really good. This month is going to be wild.

1:34:48I'm like knocking them all out before the wedding and traveling for a mini moon after. So it's going to be good. It's going to be good. But until next time. Bye. Bye, guys.

1:35:26Fall never arrives all at once. First the air, then the light, and slowly the things you love begin to find each other. A jacket meets a dress, a hoodie slips beneath a blazer, an old cap finds a new scarf, because you don't simply step into the season. You create it layer by layer until it finally feels like fall. Find fall your way at Ross.

1:35:54Who says Halloween only lasts one day? With Wayfair, one night of Halloween becomes a whole season at home. From larger-than-life yard decor and moody lighting to festive accents for every room in the house, Wayfair has what you need to make Halloween feel like magic all in one place. Because the best Halloween memories aren't made in just one night. They're made all season long. Shop Halloween decor now at Wayfair.com. Wayfair, every style, every home.