248: Festive Fiascos..

27:29For his birthday, we planned for a friend to fly in as a surprise. He checked their Snapchat location and basically spoiled his own surprise. Even this year, I got him a hat while he was at work. He texted me nonstop asking what I bought until I finally caved because I was tired of the interrogation. I'm honestly just tired. I put money, effort, and genuine thought into making holidays and birthday special for him, and he acts like a spoiled kid who has to ruin his own surprise every single time. He claims I also always find out my gifts, but 90 % of the time it's because he tells me or drops hints because he gets too excited.

28:13Why can't he just leave things alone and let gifts be surprises? At this point, should I cancel slash sell the PS5 or just give it to him anyway. So on Dave Ryan show that I listened to all the time, his daughter, he called his daughter because she, he wanted to illustrate this exact topic. Really? And he called her and he said, Hey, so can you tell everyone the experience you had about peeking into your Christmas gifts early and what that led to? And she kind of said, well, there was one year we got really curious because it was her and a sibling or something. And we just tore the, we found out you could lift the corner and then see what it is and then put it back away.

28:58Because Santa will bring us other gifts. So we'll still be surprised, but we just have to know early what one of our gifts says. Well, lo and behold, they saw every gift that was already there. Come that morning, they opened it all. They knew what it all was. and they made the decision as young kids to never do that again because it just ruins the magic of it all. It does. And it's like Santa or not, Christmas or birthdays or whatever the gift or surprise is related to, it takes all the breath out of it. And sure, you know, yeah, you might still appreciate the gift, the surprise just as much as the recipient.

29:40but for the person giving it to you, it does kind of ruin it. I mean, like if I think about any of the gifts I've done for you that have been more or less a surprise, you know, like wedding gift or things like this that haven't been things you've given me, that's been more, I'm going to go get this special thing. It does kind of, you know, it doesn't take away the gift you're giving, but it does kind of take away the magic of it. I don't know how else to put that. Yeah. I think like if, especially if gift giving is your love language and you are someone that puts so much thought and energy and time and like consideration into someone's gift, like to then be met time and time again with like, you're a bad liar.

30:28I know you got me. It's like, it just is so disheartening. But at the same time, like this is your person, your boyfriend, but you're like saving up to buy a house together no mention of how long they've been together unless i'm missing that curious but like this is him like this is going to continue to be him i'm curious if you've ever tried to set a boundary and been like hey please stop ruining surprises if you do this again you will not get that gift like i'm curious if you've set a boundary but also do you have to like yeah can you just let him be him like for me I buy people's gifts and I'm so excited to give it to them but I don't like I don't ruin it like I think a lot of times I'll just like wrap it and give it to them early exactly yeah like I'm just like I was like here it came open it and I'm always like no it's not the day yet it's not even my birthday and you're like open it I know last year I was better though where I I did hold out and I was like okay fine I'll wait and like reading this, I kind of see, I'm like, Ooh, like don't ruin people's surprises.

31:37I never ruin a surprise. I never tell people or like go crazy like this, but I just, as soon as I get it, I wrap it and I want to give it to people. But it's different as the giver, I think, right? Because you're making that choice to reveal that surprise if you want to early, or if you want to break it to them. It's different as the recipient because you, you don't understand what you're taking away from the giver. And, you know, people could say, well, that's not what it's about. You know, it's about the gift. And if you're already giving them that gift and that's the plan, then give it to them like you planned.

32:10Unless you've experienced it from the giving side. And I think you put it so perfectly with the love language. If you're naturally a gift giver and you like get so much from that, there is so much magic in watching them light up. That's not why you gave them the gift, right? That's not, that's not the whole purpose is the praise you get back and everything. It's more just, you want to make them really happy and you want to give them a genuine surprise. If they hate surprises and that's a different conversation, but you just want to see them light up because that makes it so special. Yeah, absolutely.

32:46But yeah, this would get annoying. It does kind of need to grow up. And if this isn't going to change and that's, you know, it would take a toll over time. I mean, it happens not just once a year. You know, there's gift giving throughout the year and I don't know. It's kind of a lot. What would you do? Would you return it? I don't know. If you're this hurt by it? I don't know if that's petty. I'm trying to like decide if that's petty or not. Because then if you change up the gift, you're going to be met with all this disappointment or subtle disappointment. I'd really, I'd fuck with them. It would be like hidden in a closet, not under the tree.

33:22Like I'd give, I'd fuck with them. And then you give something else that's like really low bar. fake tickets give them fake tickets to like a sporting game that look expensive and then they're fake like you can literally print them off of google images like photoshop the fuck out of it i don't know like i would fuck with him and people are gonna be like that's toxic stop ruining my surprises bitch yeah like i'd fuck with them it's part of the surprise psych not your gift i guess you could start because it's nba 2k 26 whatever it's a basketball video game i'd get him basketball tickets. Oh. And then like, oh, wait, what, what are those tickets for?

34:03Yeah. And it's like for like a fucking like fake ass court in the game. Like I'd make it about the gift, but I wouldn't let him have the satisfaction of being right. I'd, I'd kind of mess with him a little bit. I guess if, I guess you, this is a point where you need to determine what the outlook of the future is. Is this someone you're in for the long haul? Because then that's a good strategy. Start doing a smoke and mirrors thing where you really start to mess with them until you're almost teaching them to stop doing this and stop ruining all the surprises by making it so complicated that you can't guess.

34:37Just mess with them. But if this is really taking a toll to where you're like, I don't know if this is my person, then obviously that's different. Yeah. There are some of you out there that have definitely dealt with this with a partner. What have you done that made them stop ruining surprises? What have you done without being like over the top crazy? I'm like, my idea, I'm kind of sitting here and I'm like, okay, Morgan, that's a little off the rails. But I'm kind of, I'm just like annoyed at this. Fart spray in a box. I know. And then you open it. Oh, God, that'd be horrible. That takes you out though, too.

35:10So someone does say, yes, it's petty. Why insist on a surprise gift when you know you can't effectively hide things and he clearly doesn't want to wait to be surprised? I suggest just telling him from now on that you are getting him blank for Christmas, birthday anniversary, and stop the process that will inevitably frustrate you. That's not fun, though. That sucks. Why get him anything? He should be mature enough to not ruin those things. OP responds, fair. It just sucks to be excited about getting him something I know he wants and would never buy himself. Someone else comments, do you hate him?

35:44yeah it's annoying that he ruined it but some people are just like this and don't want slash need to be surprised if you want him to surprise you i think it's fair to express that and expect him to actually keep his trap shut but if he doesn't mind not being surprised i don't think it's fair to impart your desire for surprises onto him i don't know i don't know about this i literally just saw a video of a woman that was like you guys we're driving to a raccoon farm My husband doesn't know. He loves raccoons. Not my thing. I don't get it. But I love him. So I'm going to make sure he gets to do something he loves.

36:23You do these things for the other people. I don't necessarily love a surprise. But I know you love giving surprises. So you know what? So where's the line? Sometimes a surprise freaks me out. A little too out of my control. Right. But I wouldn't go around throwing you surprise parties. You're not going to put me. Like, I think. Yeah. and you're also not going to like surprise me with something you know i'd hate like sky skydiving you wouldn't take me skydiving that nope giving me ideas don't you dare op does respond and goes i don't hate him i just feel like it's so childish to purposely ruin surprises just for the sake of being clever enough to figure it out it just feels very veruca salt to me i don't know i'm with you a lot of people question how he knows like send it to your mom's house, send it to a friend's house.

37:10And OP is like, I literally shipped it to my mom's house so we wouldn't find it. Someone else is like, is it possible he snoops on your phone? Which, I don't know. We do have an update. Okay. Wow, this blew up more than I expected. I read through the comments and while some were helpful, a lot of people went straight to, he's stalking you and monitoring your devices. Wow. I want to clarify a few things. I talked to my boyfriend about everything. I told him I'm tired of putting so much energy into gifts just for the surprise to be ruined every time. I explained that it takes the fun out of it for me and makes the whole holiday feel like a chore instead of something sweet.

37:51He told me he does have his suspicions, but he genuinely didn't know what I bought. He doesn't have access to my emails, texts, bank accounts, browser history, anything like that, and he's not the type to even try. he's not sneaky or controlling he's just goofy and playful and gets way too into figuring things out because he likes the thrill of a guessing game he thought i liked that back and forth too because we usually end up laughing and telling each other our gifts anyways especially when they're smaller or obvious for the hat he said he only put two and two together because he saw the store bag while we were on facetime when i was at the outlet mall as for the ps5 comment my mom had been talking non-stop about the PS5 being on sale for Black Friday, and he said he genuinely just took a random guess.

38:38He only doubled down because I reacted and pushed back, so he assumed he got lucky. So no, he's not spying on me. He just genuinely needs to chill with the gift-guessing habit. I've decided I'm not returning the PS5. I'm still going to give it to him. I might get a little sneaky and not put it under the tree or maybe give it to him later in the day at his mom's house just for the extra surprise factor. Maybe I overreacted. Maybe I was just pissed in that moment. But the advice and funny comments helped me cool down and laugh about it. Thank you, everyone. Yeah, I don't think I was ever in the camp of return it.

39:15But I do like the smoke and mirrors. Like, let's start to really amp it up. You're never guessing this one. And then just throw his scent off the trail every time. I know. Because, you know, obviously he's receptive and it's just kind of a miscommunication or just a different style of gift giving and receiving. But I would have fun with it. I would turn this into a game where it's like, keep guessing, buddy. Keep guessing. No, I actually think the idea of like basketball tickets or something that goes with it where you're like, I don't know, like a controller or like, but then if you give a controller, then it's like, oh, I got the console.

39:59Like you need to give something related, but like not, I think the - Like an old fashioned Game Boy. Dude, go find a vintage like Game Boy and a box and like a little NBA game. and be like, it's not a PS5, but I thought it'd be good still. Literally, you can find those old gaming consoles and stuff at Goodwill. Yeah. Thrift store, Salvation Army. I'm literally going to try to send OP a message and just be like, hey, I got ideas for you on how to smoke and mirrors them. But my Reddit is glitching and will not start a chat right now. So we're going to have to come back to that in a little bit. But that's all we got on this one.

40:41Okay. I have one last thing here. Okay. If this is coming out prior to your gift opening, everyone gets gifts from people where it's like, eh, this is not really what I wanted. But you have to do that thing. Oh, yeah. Right? So everyone practice. Okay? So you're opening something. You open it and it's like super random. You're almost kind of trying to figure out what it is. And then someone's like, it's the blah, blah, blah. And you have to go, oh, yeah. Yes. I love these I actually I had one of these a few years ago And lost it So this is perfect Thank you Oh this is awesome This is great And it's like I don't know The letter J A wooden J To put on your mantle or something And you just have to amp it up So everyone practice Because we all get put in that position Unless you're one of those people That can't hide it We all know those people too Me I have no poker face Who just like open it And are like just locked just well not locked but just like no i don't know i have no poker face like if i get something i'm just like thanks i try really hard can you tell can you tell when i get i'd probably be able to tell for sure i know you like better than anybody okay there's you've been around why you wanted why are you challenging me well because if you can't tell like you've been around me when I've gotten stuff I don't like.

42:09Yeah. So you couldn't tell? I'm good. Actually, I do have poker face. I'm good. How do you know I haven't told? Been able to tell. Do you know any gifts that come to mind that I haven't liked? Well, I guess we'll just see going forward. I might have a better poker face than I think. Stuff for me? No. No. Well, now I guess we'll never know. Okay. I sent OP a message. I hope they see it and respond. I would love another update on this after the holidays about how you did it, how you messed with them a little bit. This is a good one. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Okay, real talk. To-do lists are unhinged, and the stuff that actually gets done, always the stuff you had help with.

42:55Flat pack furniture, meal prep, things that are just better with another person. Now, State Farm can't help with the sofa or Sunday cooking, but when it comes to helping find the right coverage for you, they're on it. You can talk to one of their 19 ,000 local agents in person over the phone through their easily accessible app or at statefarm.com. Whatever works for you. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. This episode is brought to you by Credit Karma. Breathe in. Now breathe out. You feel that? That's the calm of having Intuit Credit Karma in your corner. If you're trying to get your life together in this crazy world, Credit Karma is a great place to start with the money stuff.

43:36Your credit score isn't just a number. It can unlock better rates, more options, and real savings. So whether you're moving, leasing a car, or upgrading your cards, it feels good knowing your credit is working for you. When you start to feel like there's too much on your plate, you can count on Credit Karma for less craziness and more credit. Moving on to this next one that is not as uppity. This one does get a little heavy, you guys. It does have an update that does contain some mentions of abuse, kind of abusive behaviors. So if you can't handle that, please skip to the next story. This is insane family chaos that is definitely believable.

44:21So this is coming from AITAH titled, Am I the Asshole for Not Wanting My Husband's Family to Stay With Us for the Holidays? Classic. Comes up a lot for families all over. We have a one-bedroom apartment with a seven-month-old. Space is already so limited. My husband, sister, and her family are flying across the country to spend Christmas with us for 11 days. They insisted that they stay with us instead of getting a hotel. Nope. Mm-mm. Nope. Of course, my husband agrees to this without talking to me. When he does ask me about it, I explain how it's going to be crowded. The noise has to be kept to a minimum because of the baby.

45:07My son already has trouble sleeping, so who knows how it'll be by next month. Husband is working some days while they're here, so he insists that they use my car to go and do stuff while I'm home with the kid. The problem I have the most is that when I speak up, he immediately says that I'm against his family. even though he's always talking crap against mine. My family hasn't been over to see my son yet because they know it's going to take hotel and car rental fees. They don't insist on uprooting my entire routine for 11 days. My mom can get me discounts because she works at a hotel, but that's still not good enough for them.

45:47I just think it's rude to insist on sleeping on an air mattress that will take up half of our living room. My son will not have a safe place to play I'll have to lock myself away to pump every three to four hours. Our routines will be shattered. I have a feeling their kid will be loud and wake the baby. Husband said, quote, don't get mad if sister's kid breaks things. He's five. I'm going to be mad. I'm made to feel like I'm the asshole because I have an opinion. The more I think about it, the angrier I get. Am I the asshole? Yes, clearly. I mean, come on. I can't even believe people get pushed to the point where they even have to ask that question.

46:31But you know why. I mean, look at this asshole. I know, but oh my, it's just, I've outgrown the I'm coming to town, I'm going to sleep on the air mattress thing. listen I will sell my car and get a different car if it means I can stay places more comfortably if it's necessary like I that's a big one for me especially when you know you're putting someone out in a way especially a new mom seven months eight months by that time postpartum with a baby just there's not any single piece of this that makes any sense and I would be so uncomfortable going to someone's place and putting them in a position to do that.

47:18Even if they were begging me to stay there, it's just easier and nicer to not sleep on a air mattress in someone's living room. If they have an extra bedroom and bathroom where you don't get in their way, I would stay and I'd be out in the mornings. I would go other places unless we were doing something together. I'm one where I'm like, okay, I'll stay, but I'm, I'm going to be out. I'll be out of your way. Yeah. This feels like you are - It's so intrusive. There's not even, you're not even in the way. It's something beyond that. You're just blocking everything. I don't even know what to consider it.

47:52You don't have your space anymore. Your space is taking over. How are they sleeping two grown adults and a five-year-old on a blow-up mattress in the living room? Where are they changing? How's everyone showering? Oh, and by the way, wife, my sister's going to take your car. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Your car. Fuck no. Your sister can drive your car. She can drop your ass off at work and she can drive your car around while you're at work and then she can pick you up. Like, why is your family coming to stay with us for 11 days? Yeah, no kidding. Inconveniencing me in the biggest, most harmful ways. I'm getting such red flags from this dude.

48:29The fact her family hasn't been able to visit. I get like finances are really tough for a lot of people. and so I understand why her family can't visit, but, like, a husband should be, like, sending mom and baby to go visit her family then. Like, his family, there's no mention of money being an issue. And they can afford flights at least for three of them to fly across the country. So there's some money there. So why is a hotel, like, why is that such a big consideration? And, like, hey, if a hotel is not affordable, like, I don't know, like, maybe this year isn't the year to visit when we have a new baby or, hey, what does your house look like?

49:08Do you have guest rooms? Maybe we should actually fly across the country to you guys. This, what's going on is not okay. And there's no respect for her. And the way this line actually really pissed me off too. When I speak up, he immediately says I'm against his family. That feels so manipulative and weaponized and just like toxic well just saving that card to play later always right there's we had a similar we've talked about something similar recently where people will not say anything in the moment when they're really upset and then they'll just take it all right i'm gonna put that in my pocket for later and then the second you say something that's actually wrong that should be addressed they're like yep this remember this hey remember this this problem i had yep i didn't say anything But now that you bring this up, I'm going to bring it up.

49:58It's like, okay, that is just so beyond functional. There's no communication. No. There's no teamwork. There's no being a partner in any of this. Just considering all of the factors with the newborn. Can you call him a newborn still? Yeah, he's a baby. I don't know when they transition out of that. But you have a young child. You're nursing. You have a small place. and it's not like you have an extra room. Don't you think considering all of those factors and the duration, you would even consider asking the person you live with, the person you share this home with? It doesn't matter who bought her, who owns it.

50:43She just had the baby. If anything, she should have more weight when it comes to these decisions. She should have more decision-making power. it doesn't matter who bought the place or whatever that circumstance is. It's what's going to make you comfortable. What's going to make you comfortable, especially because you're nursing and doing all of this. I know pumping every three to four hours, but that is having a partner that's considerate of you. He's not considerate of her. He doesn't respect her. And he's showing a lot of really red flags. I mean, overall vote on this one, there's not a consensus spot on AITAH, but like, I mean, clearly he's not the asshole, not the asshole, not the asshole.

51:24Like this poor woman, it's clear she's being gaslit in some regard to like, again, even come here and question, am I the asshole? Like, no, no. I know. There's a comment here that says you should be rethinking this marriage. He got zero consideration for you. Next person responds, exactly. He is showing all the classic signs of being an abuser. Isolating her, he badmouths her family, probably won't even let them into the home, cuts her out of the decision making, invites his family to stay with them for 11 days during Christmas. Three, makes everything her fault. When she objects and uses logic, she is difficult.

52:04She hates his family. Four, makes her question her own logic and sanity, hence her post here. Yeah. Next comment down, want to bet he is around his 30s at least and she is early 20s. OP does respond to that. Oof, try 40s and mid 30s. Oh, yeah. Come on. That's too late for all this stuff going on. So it feels like the classic, I'll marry you, we'll have a baby, and then I'm going to change. I'm going to start taking advantage of that situation. OP does get asked quite a bit about culture. Like, is there a different culture people should be taking into consideration? Like, are we missing something here?

52:41People specifically ask, is op from an indian culture op responds no and then we get an update all right coming nearly a month later okay yeah buckle up you guys can i just say i'm picturing one bathroom and i'm also picturing the fact that there's no reprieve there's no break there's no turn it off you are on 24-7 for 11 days straight, including all of the outs and abouts that you guys are all going to go do. And you have to do that. And then you have to wait in line for the goddamn bathroom and take no. No. Even when my friends come to town and like, maybe this is a sign of me getting old or just like my social battery getting depleted.

53:31I literally want my friends to like come to town and like, let's make plans. Like you come for a weekend, right? And let's do dinner and let's do an activity Saturday, but like also can, can you plan stuff that like doesn't involve me so I can go home and like recharge or take a nap? Like I love when people come out with like friends or another partner, like their partner. So then it's like, okay, well let's hang out. Let's go to dinner. Let's go to a game. But then like you guys can go adventure and do stuff too. That's right. Well, it's like you can crash, right? Yeah, of course. You can crash.

53:58That's why we have a room, but don't feel obligated. No, we don't have to hang out 24 seven. I love you so, so much. I want to see you, but like you feel free to like adventure on your own. Yeah. Like, yeah. But I don't know. Is that just me? Am I an asshole? I don't know. No. Okay. Update. Trigger warning on this update, you guys. It does start to get pretty abusive. It could be very triggering for people dealing with, you know, verbal abuse and things like that. So just a little trigger warning here. Please just skip ahead to the next story. Where to even begin unwrapping this shithole? I had brought up the issue with his family staying a couple of times after my post.

54:41I had to Google, quote, how to talk to a narcissist before the approach. I said how it would affect the baby and I, and how it would affect his family with me having to get up in the middle of the night, and how my son needs space for his playpen, baby-proofing a one-bedroom has proven more difficult than I thought. He seemed understanding, however, wasn't budging on wanting them to stay. I just got the old, we'll keep analyzing it. Since I can cancel my hotel reservation a day before check-in, I went ahead and booked 10 nights just to lock in a cheap rate. I felt more secure having a backup plan in case shit hit the fan at my house.

55:21On our way to Thanksgiving, my son kept getting blasted by sunlight while driving. I have tried the usual sun shades on the windows. A few days ago, I got these curtains for the side windows. They hang on with magnets, so I grabbed them from my car and hung them in my husband's car, as he was the one driving us three hours away to his family gathering. He kept saying the blinds were blocking his blind spots, so I tied them open so he could see, but my son could also keep some shade. After it still was a problem, my husband asked for them to be removed and proceeded to tell me how I need to, quote, ask him before I just go and do stuff.

56:04You want your baby to get fucking sunburned from a car ride? Like... Doesn't sound like a two-way street. You need to ask before you do stuff. Like, put up a window shade so our baby is... Like, invite your family to stay with us for 11 fucking days? Yes. That is when I lost my shit. I brought up the visit and how he never discussed it with me prior to telling his sister that they could stay. Of course, this causes him to blow up. Saying that he doesn't need my permission as it is, quote, his house. Thought that was coming. Over and over, I'm told to, quote, shut the fuck up and man up. Quote, if this was your family, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot.

56:49Quote, I don't want to be with a bitch-cunt wife. Let me out of that fucking car right now. Like at that point. Can you imagine? I can, I just honestly can't even imagine someone saying this to another person. I just can't. It just, I can't even fathom it. I want to shove a bar of soap in his mouth. Bitch, cunt, wife. YouTube's going to demonetize me for saying those words in a row. Like. Yeah, especially twice. I remain calm and reiterate that it's my home too. and it's about respect that he talks to me first. It's not about control. It's about respect. Respect for my son and our routines, comfort and safety.

57:32He then goes on to say how I don't respect him, and I just, quote, turned this around and made it about you. Quote, holidays are classically stressful. Look at Home Alone, where they have that huge house and it's chaos. Okay? But this isn't a movie. It's real life. If we had a guest room, I would still be annoyed but I would be more comfortable manning up and letting them stay as they wouldn't obscure my routines. So I ruined Thanksgiving. Husband stayed at work until he had to come home just to sleep. Didn't see his son for almost three days. Had to text him first, quote, come and have an adult conversation with me.

58:13You haven't seen your son in three days, to which I get, but I'm working. No shit. I meant after. And, quote, no one wants me around anyways. I'm only good for food and money. Good Lord. I didn't respond to this. Needless to say, he came home and spent time with his son. We had an adult conversation. His family staying is not changing. He said he already told them yes and doesn't want to now tell them to get a hotel. That doesn't matter. Quote, a hotel is way too expensive. even at this discount you're talking about. It's not going to be$50. LOL. It actually was. I booked 10 nights for$518 total.

58:58Wow. I told him this and he just rolled his eyes. His sister had texted me personally and asked if they could use my car to do one thing when my husband is working. She said they would rent a car if not. Just the fact that she asked with respect made me say yes to using it. We agreed that if I needed it, they would bring it back. My son and I will be okay. My thoughts? Continue my routines. Do what I need to do. If they can't handle it, they are free to get a hotel. I will not uproot my life for 11 days. It's not about me. It's about my son. He will be taken care of regardless of guests. My question is, should I keep the hotel?

59:40I want to have it in case my son and I have to sleep there. if people keep waking my son up. I'm going to have a huge problem, especially if we're trapped, but I also don't want to waste money and never use it. I can't decide. For everyone saying I should get a divorce over this, that's valid. Even more so after this update, girl. I want to give him one more chance to start discussing with me. If he can't respect that, then yeah, it's done. I'm tired of him stepping outside and having these conversations without my input. but wish me luck. You know, I would keep the hotel. I would probably stay there every night.

1:00:17Yeah. Because that sounds really like a little staycation. Yeah. Just, you know, get out of there, have a little break, have some time with your son and get out of the mess. But I don't know. I would say your husband is only good for food and money. Yeah. I think that's where we're at. Yeah. I think he said it pretty right. And I don't think - Some odd projection. I think it's not a coincidence that he said that because I think, I don't know. I mean, a narcissist would never think this way, but I think somehow maybe a deep subconscious realizes maybe that is all he's good for in this. Yeah. But probably not.

1:01:02There is a lot of Darvo there. there's I mean there's so much deflection accuse victim reverse offender like that is all there very prevalent with him like I don't know if he's self-aware enough to realize it or if it truly is just like almost like a like a Freudian slip it's just like coming out he doesn't even recognize but like yeah subconscious is maybe another word you can use but honestly I'm like I'm I'm genuinely like I'm kind of I'm kind of scared for her like this is just not a healthy relationship someone who will verbally abuse you in such an extreme way. Like I worry about things escalating.

1:01:39Yeah, it's not right. It's not right. It's not right. It's not healthy. It's not good. I honestly, I would keep the hotel. I mean,$518 for 11 days is incredible. Like that is, that is amazing. So honestly, like if you know that like you're kind of going to spend this money one way or another, whether it's you sleeping there or like wasting it. I don't know. Like for me, if my home is more comfortable and easy for me to maintain my baby's routine, I would go to the sister-in-law because it seems like she has some respect for you. And I would say, hey, I want to just let you know so you can plan for it, but I want to gift you guys a hotel stay.

1:02:23It's right down the street from our house. Here's the room. There's a pool. And make it so fun and just like get them out of your hair. But then, you know, if money's a burden, it's a Christmas gift. Like, it seems like you can afford it because you're considering staying there. So get them out of your house. Like, and if she has a problem with it, then say, oh my God, okay. Yeah, no worries. Like you enjoy the house. You can, you know, build up mattress, all you all stay there. I just want and make sure the baby gets good sleep. It should be an upgrade for them. It should be. They should see that.

1:02:57If I were going to go stay somewhere and someone's like, yo, I booked you a room, I'd be like, shit, yeah, you did. Let's go, baby. Because the reality is, and the husband, you know, he's going to get all crazy over that. If, you know, if you go to her straight and then he figures it out on the back end, he's going to go ballistic. But in all reality, if you just think about the situation, they can come still spend a bunch of time over at your place, get all of that same quality time. But guess what? They can go to their happy little hotel and you guys can have your, yeah, well, at least you can have your happy little home.

1:03:34I don't know what his situation is, but - Fucking screwed. The second you said that, I'm just instantly worried because the verbal abuse now, it just feels like if you trigger the wrong way, you just don't know what you're going to get. And I think that's the scariest thing that can happen is when all of a sudden the person you're married to, the person you have a kid with, you look across at them and you literally feel like you don't know them. And they're unpredictable. And there's things that you start to not trust. And that is just a bad sign. That's when it kind of starts to, if you start to feel that way in your relationship of any sort, doesn't even have to be a romantic relationship that's when you got to really start evaluating like an exit plan or a worst case scenario you honestly start to have a go bag I know and that when you start to think that way you're not in a team dynamic you're not like happily together no and I honestly I think his behavior just is indicative of why he's 40 having his first kid Like, and I know people are now choosing to have kids later, but like, I don't know.

1:04:45I'm getting obviously some glaring issues. A lot of people are worried about her in the comments. A lot of people are like, don't prepare for guests. Don't buy groceries. Don't cook. Take your son and go stay at the hotel or with family or friends. Let your husband host his family without you. Honey, you need to take the baby in the car and go stay at the hotel for the duration of the stay. let him host stay away from that chaos a lot of people are like one thing i don't think i've read is that the stress op is going through will definitely affect her milk supply which will in turn affect the baby and like stress can decrease milk supply cortisol can actually be in your breast milk and if you have extremely high levels of cortisol and that stress hormone your baby can actually become even fussier they get stressed you can pass stress the cortisol yeah the stress hormone can be in your breast milk usually like if you're just low stress like it's such a small amount but like if you're in a high stress situation so it's like all around this is just setting her up for failure like if this were me I honestly would like reach out to my family and be like you guys I'm really struggling like can I come visit for the holidays and like I know she's clearly not ready for divorce even after that car conversation and the horrible things he said to her.

1:06:03And if she's not ready, she's not ready. But I hope she gets there because this is just not, not okay. It's getting dark. Not okay. Okay, Justin, you're off. Bye. Next co-host. Next co-host coming in. Okay. Poof, little, you know, reindeer magic. Poof, bye. Poof. Poof, bye. Bye. This episode is brought to you by Billy. I don't know about you guys, but I get a little lazy in the winter. I'm in hibernation mode and I grow out my leg hair a little bit. But it's getting warmer and now I'm excited for that first shave of the season. And if you are, then you got to get the Billy razor into your life.

1:06:45It's designed for how women actually shave. Legs, pits, toes, happy trail, wherever prickles decide to show up. It has five sharp blades and a pivoting head. so you can actually get everywhere without doing shower gymnastics. And it comes with a magnetic holder so your razor stays dry on the wall instead of sitting in a shower puddle. Grab a Billy razor in your favorite color in store or at mybilly.com. This episode is brought to you by Vinted. Season is changing. Time to clean out that closet and maybe make some extra money in the process. Vinted is a secondhand marketplace app where you can sell your clothes you no longer wear and get more value out of your wardrobe.

1:07:26It's super simple to use and with no selling fees. So you keep what you earn. Give your clothes a second life with Vinted. Download the Vinted app for free to start listing with no seller fees. Welcome back to the holiday stories. Do you know any holiday jingles? Yes. Have you been practicing for your caroling? Caroling isn't happening. I know it's it's sad. it's really if any of you why would you do that to the people i don't know if any of you are successfully caroling this year please let me know how where when can she sign up yes because the one thing we thought of is you could probably do it at like a nursing home yeah or like where's a retirement home i don't know either way either way you can probably go there to do it we briefly said maybe we go to the grove that's crazy the grove is crazy i was not on board with the grove the grove is that's no then we've got live streaming but i don't know live stream's a good idea yeah it's never too late it's only the 15th right now that's true so you could still carol yeah get people into the spirit you know yeah i haven't i'd love it if carolers came to my door yeah i don't know if they i mean you do live in a q neighborhood i could see them there but it's like caroling does feel like a cold weather place thing too Feels like a lost art, if you ask me.

1:08:49It is a lost art. Sign the petition. Bring back caroling. Bring back caroling. What are we doing? Something probably not as bad as what you're going to read for me. No, no. Yeah, there's some bad ones. Let's go. Let's get into it. Let's rapid fire these bad bitches. These motherfuckers. I don't know. Dude, I'm in such a weird headspace today. Once your vibe is thrown off by something, it is difficult. to like get your vibe back on track. I don't know how to recover a vibe once it goes flat. A stale. I think when we get Raising Cane's, it'll recover your vibe. I have to go to the post office though.

1:09:27I'm like, just like, God. Oh, everything is. So let's get into this first one. Okay. This one's coming from Am I the Jerk? It's titled, Am I the asshole for calling out my neighbor at our Christmas party after she kept hitting on my son?

1:09:50We hosted a Christmas party at our house for neighbors and some family friends. My 19-year-old son was home from college for break. One of our neighbors, who's probably in her mid-40s, started getting really drunk and weird with him. Started off with compliments about how grown up he looks. Then she's touching his arm, asking if he has a girlfriend, saying stuff like, quote, if I was 20 years younger while laughing. My son looked so uncomfortable, but he's being polite because it's our house and our party. He kept trying to move away from her, but she would follow him around. I pulled her aside and said that she needs to stop, that she's making my son uncomfortable.

1:10:39She acted like I was crazy and she was just being nice. Ten minutes later, she's back at it. Cornered him by the Christmas tree, asking him to help her hang ornaments on a high branch, making comments about his height and build, asking if he works out. I went over and said loud enough for people nearby to hear, quote, he's 19. You're in your 40s. Stop hitting on my son at Christmas. Get her ass. She got upset and left crying. Her husband looked mortified and apologized before following her out. I said if a 40-year-old man was doing this to someone's 19-year-old daughter, they would be horrified.

1:11:24Why is this different? Am I the asshole? Well, it's not. It's not any different. It's disgusting either way. No, and also, she already got the warning. She already got the like, even if she didn't have that intent initially, it's like, well, you've been told you're making him uncomfortable. He's been visibly trying to get away from you. And now you are still doing it. So there is no excuse. Leave him alone. Yeah. You're also, you're not even single. You're married. Yeah. No. When I heard the little bit about the husband at the end, I was very surprised. I was shocked. I was like, wait, her husband is there.

1:11:58And the husband apologized, which is interesting. So he probably also was like, that's kind of weird. Probably really embarrassed. And like, how long has this neighbor known him? He's 19 now. Ew. Probably a while because she even said like, you look so grown up now. Yeah. Which if that was the only comment, that is like a common thing to say to like, like a kid that you've like known for a long time. Yeah. Like relatives. Oh my God, you look so grown up. But clearly, like, with that sandwich with all of these other comments, it's like, no, this isn't appropriate. Really bad. Touching his arm. Do you have a girlfriend?

1:12:36If I was only 20 years younger. Yeah. Everyone can assume what you want to say after that. If only I was 20 years younger, I'd fuck you now. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah, it's gross. It is gross. And it is, like, interesting how OP kind of points out that there's, like, a little bit of a double standard. And I do think like young boys, young men, like, I don't know. You saw it with like Justin Bieber, like how he was just like the opposite of infantilized. He was like looked at much older. But I also think that that happened to his female peers at the time. Like that was kind of the time. I know.

1:13:11But like you look at. Same thing happened to Selena and Miley and like all of that. For sure. Like adult male interviewers too. I know. The way we treat young celebrities is not. I just oh I saw something the other day where it's like this actress was 13 and she made out with like um a 43 year old and I'm like what the fuck wait for a movie yeah yeah that was happening a lot too they were casting like very young girls to play like love interests and it wasn't in the script either wait it wasn't in the script so it was um I don't know if she was she might not have been 13 I'm trying to find the age, but it was Bill Murray.

1:13:50He gave Scarlett Johansson a kiss and it wasn't in the script. And he just like kissed her. And Scarlett was really young. I got to fact check myself. I think she was 16, but Bill Murray at the time was 52. Ew. Leave her alone. Get away from her. Get away from her. Really just icky. But yeah, no matter who it's happening to, though, like someone in their 40s and someone who is a teenager, that should not be happening. Gross. Especially if you've known them for a long time. And then to just, like, corner him and, like, and he doesn't want to cause a scene because it's his parents' house. And this is, like— It's just being polite.

1:14:28Also trying—don't want to embarrass anybody. But it's like, okay, you've had your warnings. Like, stop now. Stop. Yeah. Like, you're being weird. Top comment, not the asshole. True, if you reverse the genders, most parents would be upset. Mm-hmm. I don't even know why she's questioning it. Like, it's weird. It's weird. Yeah, I think holiday parties, I wish I'd grown up in one place and that that was a place I went back to and that I could people watch with the types of interactions from like all of these randoms that you wouldn't necessarily probably friend. Yeah. Like by choice, but because you're in close proximity like this, you just like have to kind of socialize with a lot of different people.

1:15:14for sure but I'm never at like a holiday party with this type of group of people and I kind of wish I could relive that experience seems interesting this is awkward yeah it's not that fun I think I have a lot of people probably doing that right now yeah no I um I went to like a holiday party the other night and like love the host but like don't really know everyone else and me and Justin just sat in the corner by the food table and just snacked yeah and we're just like, okay, how long do you have to stay and show face? We've kind of talked, like, have we said enough? Yeah. This one's probably pretty clear cut in the comments.

1:15:55Yeah. Comments are like, be proud of yourself. Love what you did. Don't ever feel ashamed or guilty for sticking up for your son. There's a time to be nice, which should be most of the time, but there's also a time to be direct and maybe not so nice. This was a perfect example. One warning, then here comes Mama Bear. Loved it. And I bet many of the people attending did too. Oh, they definitely did because who doesn't want a little tea? Yeah. Who doesn't want a little holiday drama? Also, I feel like a lot of people probably noticed. Like, this seems to have not been very subtle. So I'm sure everyone was like, well, yeah, that's what you get.

1:16:32I hope the neighbor wakes up in the morning and apologizes too. Yeah, I would hope so. Okay, move on to this next one. Okay. I haven't read this one, but based on the title, I feel like it's going to be good. Okay. I don't know. I'm sorry in advance if it sucks. I don't know. It's a day old at the time that I found it coming from AITAH. I don't want to refresh yet in case it's gone. And it's titled, am I the asshole for canceling Christmas after my brother-in-law threw a fit over me inviting ex-sister-in-law to Thanksgiving and Christmas? Wait, this is the plot of a Hallmark movie that's out right now.

1:17:15Is it really? I mean, yes. Yeah, with, I don't remember. Yeah. Okay, let's get into this. I, 38 female, married to my 44 male husband for 15 years. My husband is one of six sons. His mother passed a few years after the youngest was born and his father passed about nine years ago. Husband is the second. There's the oldest brother-in-law, 47, with sister-in-law and two kids. Hubby and I, three kids, currently pregnant with our fourth. Brother-in-law, who's number three, 42, widowed with one kid, brother-in-law four, 39 with girlfriend, brother-in-law five, 37, ex-sister-in-law with two kids, and a single brother-in-law, number six, 34.

1:18:09Okay. That's what he says. I retained all that. P-H-E-W. you. Hubs and I are very well off. We both have very lucrative jobs and have made investments that has allowed us to have a very comfortable life. We have a big old house and we are often the family that hosts the holidays. We absolutely love it. We spend all week cleaning, prepping for the family to arrive, and they typically stay with us Tuesday through Saturday for Thanksgiving and then come back the 21st through the 26th for Christmas. Now, brother-in-law 37 has been separated, soon divorcing ex-sister-in-law for four and a half years.

1:18:50The past few years since brother-in-law 39 has separated from ex-sister-in-law, he has brought numerous girlfriends to these holidays. Ex-sister-in-law has sometimes come and they are pretty cordial. However, However, recently, this past Thanksgiving, my brother-in-law, 37, has been expressing that he doesn't want to see her, nor does he feel like he should be accosted by his ex-wife at the holidays. He's saying that regardless if he has kids or not, he should be able to come and she shouldn't be able to come anymore. Why the sudden shift or change, you might wonder? Well, this year, ex-sister-in-law has a serious boyfriend who came with his daughter.

1:19:34I should note, we welcome and open our home to all of our family's significant others. The kids and cousins have all met this daughter because we tend to see ex-sister-in-law a lot outside of the holidays, as we do a lot of cousin hangs, and she's the one who always brings the kids. I am not too keen on brother-in-law. To me, he's a scumbag, but everyone tolerates him because he's family, whatever. In this instance, I stood firm and said that ex-sister-in-law is always welcome at our house. Another reason that I especially need ex-sister-in-law is that no one else at these holidays can cook. During the holidays, it's basically me and ex-sister-in-law and my mom.

1:20:16She's my sous chef. We cook and plan the meals together for 20 plus people, as well as desserts and activities. Other and sister-in-law who cannot cook, but we love her, and she usually hangs out in the kitchen chopping up veggies or pouring wine, which is cool because company counts when you're cooking. So I said, I think it's absurd that you want me to host the holidays by myself and cater to everyone because you feel that ex-sister-in-law shouldn't be there because now she has a new plan. And as I mentioned, I'm pregnant. Just found out a few weeks before Thanksgiving, so I needed the help.

1:20:52I told him to fuck off. Thanksgiving comes and goes, and brother-in-law is a sour asshat the whole time, but everyone had a really good time. Now Christmas is coming up, and the same issue is happening. Brother-in-laws are divided. Hubs, brother-in-law 47, and brother-in-law 42 are on my slash the ex-sister-in-law side, and the others are saying that I should stop inviting ex-sister-in-law because she is no longer family. I'm like, what the fuck? That is so freaking cruel. Also, she's my friend, and y 'all are out of your damn mind if you feel like I'm going to shoulder the holidays by myself, especially because none of the brother-in-laws actually help.

1:21:39We don't expect slash want anyone to contribute, especially if they can't cook, but that doesn't change the physical toll that it takes to make all this stuff happen. My husband, love him, said that this is too much stress for me and we should just cancel and do something else. So we immediately booked a vacation. Hey! I then sent a message in the family group chat and notified everyone that we will not be doing Christmas this year and we will mail all the kids their gifts. Wow. Now everyone is up in arms saying that I shouldn't cancel and that not having one person there isn't enough to not do the holidays, blah, blah, blah.

1:22:20My husband kind of chewed them out saying that ex-sister-in-law is not some stranger or random person. She's been a part of the family for 20 years. Oh my god. Her and brother-in-law 37 started dating in high school. He also said that they don't get to take all the benefits of the holidays, not help, and then demand that I do things alone because brother-in-law 37 is in his feelings that she moved on. I told them they could all choke on candy canes, and if they wanted to have Christmas, they could host, plan, cook, and create the magic with the people they deemed family. So yeah, am I the asshole on this one?

1:23:01Opie is not the asshole. This was a ride. Oh my god, Opie has been doing everything for everyone this whole time. I feel like I could be more conflicted on this one if you know brother-in-law and ex-sister-in-law didn't have kids together like I can understand saying hey like this is my ex yeah can we please stop inviting her to the family events I'm trying to move on she's moving on it's hard for me yeah like that isn't the craziest thing in the world to me no but I think you know her being in their lives for 20 years, her always helping out, them having kids together, her probably wanting to be there because that's where, you know, they can all be together.

1:23:42The kids also probably love that these events, they get to have their mom and dad there together. Oh, this is amazing. And like the whole family comes together. I mean, 20 plus people under one roof, like it is so, so fun to have as young, like cousins and siblings and all that. Like it is, it is a village. Like this is ideal. And why should it end? Because like they got divorced. I get like if things are really bad and toxic and you can't be around each other. But like again, like as you said, like she was a part of everyone's life for 20 years. Yeah. And it sounds like they have been cohabitating at these events and he has been fine with it and he's brought girlfriends.

1:24:24But now it's just this year because she has a boyfriend that now there's a problem. Yeah. But yeah, good for the goose should be good for the gander. Yeah. Same thing. You've been bringing girlfriends all these years. She hasn't had anyone. That's why it's been okay because you get to show off and flaunt it in front of her face. Now you're single. No girlfriend this year. She's got someone she cares about genuinely. Yeah. And now you're going to pout and cry and whine. Grow up. And it's probably not like easy for the ex sister-in-law too. It's like already maybe a little bit awkward of like, okay, I'm the ex coming and I can tell that like there are some people who don't want me here anymore.

1:25:02I wish that she could have a similar like family Christmas and Thanksgiving event on her side. But again, I think that this is like a net positive situation that everyone's together. And I feel like he just needs to suck it up. And also all of these people need to be offering to help. Oh, my God. Why is nobody helping? I can't imagine. no I cannot imagine having like 20 people coming to an event and only three are helping with the food like at least be bringing stuff like every every single couple should be bringing something with them it should not be up to these three people no and if you can't cook either watch a youtube video or buy it yeah you can buy really good pre-made things that like taste like homemade stuff and there must be at least one thing that you can cook like give me a break I can't cook like try everyone else is doing it for you so literally justin just made bread yesterday for a hanukkah party we went to like he made the challah because i was recording i couldn't get back in time and he had to start the dough otherwise it would not be done bread he just crushed it i came back did the braid did a little too tight not my best challah if you're following my bread journey but um it tasted amazing and he did so good like is he a little baker he's not Not, you know, Martha Stewart or Betty Crocker.

1:26:24But he's willing to mix those things together and put it in the oven. I mean, it's just the effort. Yeah. It's like none of them can cook. But like, as she said, the sister-in-law that can't cook comes in, chops a few veggies, pours the wine. Like, yeah, that's still appreciated. Yeah. Where's everyone else? That's just so many people to be putting it all. Like anytime we do Thanksgiving dinners now, like I do bread and my mom does the pies and like someone else does, You know, we come together and we all try to help each other and make it work. 20 people. God. Yeah. No, not the asshole. I think this is going to be a really good learning lesson for all of them.

1:27:04Yeah, this is a reality hitting the moment. Don't bite the hand that feeds you. Literally feeding you. And like this is hosting. I mean, this is a big fucking house. I want to see a picture of their house. Send me the Zillow link. Yeah. Like you can fit 20 people in your house. She did say that they both are very well off. They both have very lucrative jobs. Can I come? We'd love to be there. Can I come? We'll help. I'll make bread. We'll actually help. I'll make it all. Yeah, Michaela can make anything. Her focaccia. Woo. Woo. Thank you. Sourdough with her little brie and pepper jam. Woo. Yeah, you put a little onion in there.

1:27:39Send us the invite. You put a little onion in there. That was good, too. This is a PSA for everyone. I don't know if I've talked about this yet, but if you eat too many raw red onions, you will get a headache and massive anxiety. Be careful. What do you mean? Exactly what I said. I ate a handful of raw onion slivers. Yeah. And I thought I was going to die. It triggered a massive headache and a shit ton of anxiety. Wait, are you sure that that's what did it? Did you look into it? Yep, I googled. Oh my god. I googled and it said it's pretty common. I didn't know that that was happening. Be careful with those red onions, everyone.

1:28:19They are dangerous. Well, and I will say if you chop up some red onions, that stays in your fingernails for quite some time. I was scrubbing. Don't touch your eyeballs. I was freaking scrubbing. Don't touch them. Yeah, onions and what else stays on your fingers after you do it? Probably garlic or something. Sugar snap peas. There was something else I made the other day. It'll come back to me. It'll come back to me. We do have some comments from OP. Oh, good. Yeah. I'm very curious about this family. I'm interested to know more. I want to be adopted. Adopt me. Mail me my presents. But only by her, not anyone else.

1:28:56Yeah, no, no. This one. This one. So someone goes, and it's like up at the top as one of the best comments right now. One, I am coming. So many people will never notice. I'll pass myself off as someone significant other's grandmother. I cook and I'll bring a raw apple cake, chocolate Yule log and orange chocolate chips. Yeah, our reaction as well. We're down. Let us let us come to your brother in law is Ron. Tell him that he can stay home. And three, your former sister in law is lovely. She comes. Someone else responds. I am also coming. I'm someone's crazy hippie auntie who's stranded here for the holidays.

1:29:35I'm taking charge of the turkey that I will bring. I roast a mean bird. OP responds, don't tempt me with a good time. I think the holidays are incomplete without a crazy hippie auntie. The thread goes on and someone does eventually ask, like, how did this start? Has this been an issue before? People are sharing recipes in the comments. But OP says, we've literally been hosting and the both of them have been coming to Thanksgiving and Christmas since they split up. Brother-in-law brings whoever he's dating, and it's never been an issue. He just broke up with his latest girlfriend. Ex-sister-in-law also tends to have the kids more.

1:30:16We welcome everyone. But also, like I mentioned, no one else helps. We're talking cooking for days to feed everyone and overall making the holidays festive. And again, I'm pregnant. I'm not a mule. And again, she's been a part of the family for 20 years. That doesn't just go away. I think it's more that he's hurt that she has a partner for the first time. Sounds like a whiny little bitch. Yeah, it's been like five years that he's been actively dating and she hasn't until now. And all of a sudden it's like, oh, we got problems now. I'm coming off a little hot today. No, it was it was whiny little bitch.

1:30:51And also, of course, if you're like already doing so much work for such a huge event and then it's like, here's one person who does nothing and complains and like adds negativity to the time. Here's someone who's lovely and is one of the only people helping me out with the event and they're trying to shut her out. Like, no. I know. Well, and OP also adds this, like, because someone was like, why doesn't she spend the holidays with her family? Yeah. And OP's like, she doesn't have any, actually. Her family is in another country and she's never been close. She lived with a distant cousin when she came to this country, my husband's family literally took her in.

1:31:28She is even close with a lot of their cousins. Yeah. So I think it's like, it's really tough. And like, I'm so glad with this one that hubby is on board with her. Yeah. I'm so glad it's not her against all of them. And like, he's advocating for her. And like, I guess he's advocating for the sister-in-law the most, actually. She's been like a sister to them. She's literally been at all of our kids' births, even staying with us while I was postpartum. She did the same for our other sister-in-law. She's even friends with my sisters. She asked for the divorce because he was cheating on her. I think he really thought she would never leave him, but she's been ingrained in the family since they were both 17.

1:32:12It sounds like, honestly, she tries really hard to be a part of this family because she doesn't have, like, Like she's constantly showing up and putting in all of this effort and taking on the jobs that other people don't want to do, which is like super understandable because it's like she's, you know, she wants to stay a part of it. She's never like had this type of family dynamic before. And I don't think it's fair for her to be booted because they got divorced because he was cheating on her. Yeah, because of him. Like, I think that's something that's really hard for me with family dynamics and like navigating family dynamics.

1:32:48And it's something Justin and I have kind of had issues with because like a lot of people in his family got divorced. And like he he has still wanted to like try to maintain relationships with some people, but feels that he can't. And he feels that he's kind of walking a fine line. And that's that's like that's his feeling. Like, I don't put any pressure on like whatever you want to do, you do. But it just makes things difficult and awkward sometimes. and it is kind of a thing where it's like when someone gets married and that's your uncle and you've known them for 30 years as your uncle and all of a sudden they get divorced it's like it's hard to just be like well that's not my uncle anymore and I don't know him yeah and that's like what is wanted of him by some of the other people in that situation yeah it's almost like pick a side and it's like sure and there's a lot of mess to it totally there's a lot of like just shitty stuff that, you know, obviously people are hurt by and like everyone's entitled to their feelings, but it's really hard to just kind of expect everyone to forget that relationship that's been had.

1:33:54And I think a lot of families go through this. Like no one in my family's gotten divorced. A lot of people just didn't get married. And I always grew up like me and my siblings. We've always had like multiple Christmases, like Christmas Eve, we would all go to our bio dad's houses and then Christmas Day we spent together at my mom's. So that was like the normal for us. We never had a Christmas where everyone came together. Yeah. But if that's all you've ever known for the past 20 some odd years, why should that change? Like, why can't you, ex-husband, be mature to realize you messed up? Yeah. And I think that's really important what you're saying of like, oh, all of a sudden now I'm not supposed to see this person as my uncle because as OP is mentioning, you know, the ex-sister-in-law has been at the births of all of these children.

1:34:41She's been there. She's been taking care of them. She's been taking care of, you know, the parents in those situations too. So it's like, yeah, that does become your family and that doesn't just go away all because the brother-in-law cheated on her. It's tough. She's still been there for all of these like huge moments that are family moments. I mean, I got chills when you were like, she took care of all of them postpartum and took care they're babies like it she has been such a big part of this village yeah and they're friends yeah they're friends now it would be like you can't be friends with her because we're getting divorced and it's her holiday party it's her house yeah she's hosting yeah she's doing everything either come and if you don't like it then don't fucking come yeah get get out of here this is a gift it would have been harder this is a gift harder for the ex-sister-in-law to be showing up when it's like oh I have to show up now and he cheated on me but I can't ask for him to leave I have to make nice with him so she's been putting up with it he can too she's not the one who did something no it's crazy the fact he yeah it's always so crazy to me it's like the fact you cheated on her yeah and then you immediately like had all these other girlfriends and she was fine showing up and being there and making food for you guys too making food for you and those girlfriends dude I would have spit in his potatoes like what like the strength she has to not be catty not be petty and just still just participate in this family and like love I don't know it's just like it's baffling to me and then she gets one boyfriend and he's crashing out yeah what did you think was gonna happen many such cases though I do feel like when someone's the cheater it's like oh as soon as the other person does anything about moving on it all comes crashing down on their heads.

1:36:29I know. Does anyone in the comments think OP is the asshole? No. Okay. No, everyone is like firmly, firmly on OP's side. Yeah. We do get a little bit more insight about brother-in-law. OP says this, honestly, he's so obnoxious and always wants to be the center of attention. He drinks too much and thinks that he's God's gift to ladies. He is attractive, but he has such a shitty attitude. Last Christmas, we got all of the kids' bikes and he hopped on his oldest son's bike to show the kids how he could do cool tricks and ended up running into the stairs and getting the bike wheel stuck. His son was so sad and he didn't even get to be the first one to ride it.

1:37:08We got him another bike. Ironically enough, it was my husband and ex-sister-in-law, new boyfriend who taught him how to ride it. Whenever he's at events, people are always apprehensive because he always steals the spotlight. It's exhausting. But when he's decent, he's actually not that bad to be around it's just more often than not that he's that person this is such a glimpse into like how some people are born into such a lucky position with family and other people have to work so hard to like build something like that because he can just be obnoxious he can break things he can be drunk and annoying and he's still a part of the family and he'll still have that community but this ex-sister-in-law like she's always showing up she's cooking for everybody she's teaching people the kids how to ride the bikes and like she could be exiled just for getting a boyfriend and that really is so sad I know that double standard almost and it's like well he's blood but honestly chosen family is a lot of times it has so much more weight because you're choosing to love that person you're you're choosing to like take them under your wing and like make them family so it's like she is chosen family at this point and his stupid decisions and them separating shouldn't impact her place within this family.

1:38:27There's one last comment here I'll read. OP says she was at the birth of all my children and every time one of them were born, she would stay with me for weeks to help postpartum. She would be homeschooling her kids and helping with mine. My husband said that he would disown his own brother before he ever disowned her. My heart couldn't allow for me to ice her out. I just don't understand that. She's such a sweet person. I'm not saying she's perfect, but she's really so, so kind. Yeah. Yeah. That's family. That's family. That's family. Not the asshole. Enjoy your vacation this year and maybe circle back next year once people have learned their lessons.

1:39:09Yeah. And seen, hey, this is the glue. We're not going to disrupt this. she's like largely the reason they get to have such a close she's the one like putting these events together and making that magic happen yeah big part of it a really big part of it yeah I mean OP for sure but like even sister-in-law they're kind of a little dynamic duo by the sounds of it yeah I get why they're not attracted to each other what's the word why they like each other they're super connected they're attracted they are like platonic soulmates Yeah. No, I really like it. There's a lot of comments here, though, that are really good.

1:39:48I mean, people are sharing their recipes. Someone says, okay, I'm also coming and I'm bringing dunk cakes. It's an upside down spice cake with the fruit layer being raisins, dates, apricots, and figs that have been soaked in brandy for two days. One bite and your pain in the ass brother-in-law will be passed out on the floor. Problem solved. And they give their whole recipe. This is so funny because on a Patreon episode recently, you and I were just talking about how we would love to be able to put together a recipe book yes of all the two what takes listeners like family recipes yes like oh that I I actually tweeted that once asking for people's like favorite family recipe from like many generations and I got like so many good recipes from that because like yeah you can go to the online cookbooks and like those can be amazing but there's something about like everyone's favorite family recipe is so much special.

1:40:39So special. And usually the family ones that have been around for a couple of years are so, so much better than anything you'll find because they've been tried and tested. And, oh, this one, not as sweet. Let's add a little more sugar next time. So you'll see like lines crossed out and then it goes from like half cup sugar to like three fourths cup sugar. And it's just like, I love a story. So I really, really, really do want to put that together. So if you're listening to this and you're like I have a family recipe I'd love to have included and you have a really good story behind it like I want people's stories too that's really nice about where these recipes came from like this was my grandma's recipe and she fled Europe and blah blah blah like I would love the story and maybe I don't know like a memory behind it but it's gonna be happening over on Patreon I will post like on the free tier so like if you can't afford Patreon or just like aren't interested in the bonus content like come over you can still participate and I think it'd be so so cool to put a two-hour takes recipe book together yeah especially for the holidays it's so perfect be so good yeah it'd probably be done by the next holidays right it's gonna take a little while to get through everything but maybe maybe spring maybe we can not procrastinate maybe we can get on it quick but yeah I think it'd be really really good so chime in with a family recipe.

1:42:01I would. I'd really love that. Yeah. What are you going to put in? I feel like our biggest family recipe is the chocolate pie my dad's grandma made. And that's the one that I told you. The handwritten on the cake tier. I love that. I'm so excited to hear what your mom thinks about these stories. Michaela's mom listens, you guys. And then she'll call me about it. Yeah. She had a hot take on that cookbook story. I know. We've had a few cookbook stories recently. I know. Was she worried about our take? No, no, no. She agreed with us. Okay. But was she worried initially when we were kind of slow to get there?

1:42:36No, I think she's always on our sides. That's why I love her. Thank you so much for coming on for these holiday stories. Yay! Happy holidays. I love it. I love it. Two outtakes holiday. Let's go. Happy holidays, guys. On to the next one. This episode is brought to you by Nintendo. Everyone's version of MeTime is a little different. That's why the Nintendo Switch 2 system is so fun. With exclusive and Nintendo Switch-compatible games like Mario Kart World, Animal Crossing New Horizons, Nintendo Switch 2 Edition, Tamodachi Life, Live in the Dream, or Yoshi and the Mysterious Book, there's something for every vibe.

1:43:14And with upgraded hardware, play at home or on the go, whenever the mood hits. Learn more at Nintendo.com slash Nintendo Switch 2. Games and systems sold separately. Some Nintendo Switch games may not be supported or fully compatible with Nintendo Switch 2. Games rated E for everyone. This episode is brought to you by Cash App. I myself have fallen for a scam, thought I was getting a really good deal on tickets, and bam, I sent the money and I didn't get my tickets. There's so many common scams these days and finding all the red flags can be hard. That is where Cash App comes in. Keeping your money safe from fraud deserves to be a priority and Cash App treats it that way.

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1:44:26Banking services provided by Cash App's bank partners. Visit cashapp.com slash legal slash podcast for full disclosures. Okay, we got Lauren here. Woo! Coming in with some more holiday hot takes, huh? I guess. Yeah. We'll see. You are wearing a blanket that looks like my shirt. Yes. I'm like, okay, here we go. I cannot stop buying these rugby shirts on eBay. Nordstrom Rack. I'm obsessed. They're cute. You know, the boxers that you got us for your wedding, I wear those to bed all the time. They're honestly the best boxers. They really are. Because they're boxers made for girls. They're from, I think I got them from like American Eagle and they're just so comfy.

1:45:11Okay, here we go. Hopping into some more holiday stories. This one, I've been saving for you because you have coworkers. You work in like more of a traditional setting these days. And so I figured this would be a good one for you. And everyone's been asking for more work stories. Gonna have a work theme coming at you very soon. So if there's any stories you want to see, send me a message, drop the link in the comments. But this one. I'm nervous. This is coming from A-I-T-A-H and it's titled, Would I be the asshole if I tell my coworker he can't participate in Secret Santa due to his conditions.

1:45:51Okay, so I'm hosting a Secret Santa at work. It's an employee-run event, no managers involved, and I've been the one to host it for the past few years. I made up some questionnaire slips, sent out an email, and started handing out slips to those that wanted to participate. One of my co-workers, we'll call him Trey, who I actually really get along with can be difficult at times and has chosen my hosted event as one of those times for some reason. Anyways, here's how it went down. I hand him a slip since he participated last year and I assumed he would want to play again. He took the slip from me and then asked me, can I buy someone a gift and not get one?

1:46:35I told him, no, it doesn't work like that. Someone is going to draw his name and they're going to want to get him a gift. He told me to just put in someone's name who doesn't want to play. And I said, they don't want to play though, so I'm not going to do that. You either play or you don't. There's no in between. This just makes sense in my head. But he kept arguing with me, saying he really doesn't want any gifts and he doesn't need any more clutter in his house, but he still wants to buy a gift for someone. Put it towards a donation. Another coworker overheard our conversation and kind of called me out for it, saying, quote, damn, just let Trey give someone a gift and put someone's name in at random.

1:47:19Someone gets an unexpected gift and Trey doesn't have to receive one. I really hate the idea of this, but I told Trey that I would think about it. That just makes no sense to me. I'm not going to put a random person's name into that hat, and I'm not going to start asking around, who wants to get a gift but doesn't want to buy one? I feel bad because I want Trey to be able to play and participate with us, but I don't like getting pushed into changing rules and making exceptions for people. In my head, the way I set it up is the way the game is played. You either play or you don't. Am I wrong though?

1:47:55Should I let him donate his gift to someone else? Well, okay, actually, I said put it towards a donation, but I just realized that kind of takes away from the game because the idea is someone else might also like to like buy something specific for Trey. Yeah. So that's kind of like the fun of Secret Santa is like not only getting a gift, but like thoughtfully picking something. So I actually understand where OP is coming from. But what I do think is that Trey could also, if he has a lot of clutter and he doesn't want the gift, then go and donate the gift. Literally. I don't know why both of them are being so obstinate over something so simple simple and dumb yeah like exactly genuinely like you're creating a ruckus in your office gifts like it's it's not it's for fun so like let let it be fun yeah it's not it shouldn't be that serious no or like don't do secret santa do like a white elephant dice game instead people that want to play bring a gift and then like trey could walk away from the gift you oh at the end because it's not so like geared towards people specifically yeah exactly you're just buying something right and then whatever is left at the end that people don't want gets donated yeah like that's another way to do it where it's not as like targeted then but it is kind of like a I get where Trey's at because it's like I think a lot of us are like no I want I want nice things or you know my family is notorious for like the dice game and we used to do dollar store dice game because like people didn't want to spend money yeah but then at the end you're left with like a can opener yeah and a box of crayons that aren't crayola and don't really write that well yeah and like just stuff you wouldn't need so then we upped it to like i think it's now our limit is 30 but now people are buying like they're buying things from like tj maxx that original price is 30 but cost them 15 and you can tell they're 15 things because that's like it's a scam they were never meant to be 30 they were always supposed to be 15 yeah so it's so funny i hate the injustice of a dice game i actually can't stand it you really do every year i get stuck in a bad dice game and so this year i just said i'm not playing but that's why it's this is so funny because it's like a full circle because you're like why are they taking it so seriously it's just for fun and then now you're like i'm taking it all seriously i will not take this injustice no i just think it's not that serious if you don't want something don't play your office secret santa instead donate yeah or just like buy a gift for somebody i don't i don't know go do um i don't know there's so weird thing yeah there's so many ways to get involved and like by the time you're hearing this episode it'll be too late for this year also what if someone gets you a gift that you really like i know maybe they noticed something you needed around the office maybe you said you were cold all the time so they're gonna buy you a nice little sweater yeah I don't know but there's so many ways to like give someone a gift and have it be meaningful there's Operation Santa that USPS does and there's I think he just probably wants to be a part of the game and wants to like and wants to be included and wants to wants to give somebody a gift I think that's where he's at like more so than just like wanting so badly to like buy a gift and like give it somewhere I think he wants to be like included you know then his name gets put in and at the end of the day, he can donate his gift.

1:51:19Exactly. There you go, Trey. Exactly. Come on. Yeah. Both of these people, why are they being so weird? Top comment. Why don't you recommend that Trey ask for a donation to a charity for his gift? He could write down that he doesn't need anything and ask for a modest contribution made to a list of charities. That was my first thought, right? Remember? But at the same time, I do understand like somebody might be like, well, I don't want to be told what to get somebody like I I want to play secret Santa and do my little present hunting I want to buy a Santa face like I want like you know what I mean so I'm like I if somebody told the person what to get them it kind of takes away from the game as well true and someone does say here like someone needs to talk to Trey some people don't realize how difficult they make things for others I'm assuming you are doing this on top of your actual job him adding ridiculous caveats to make your voluntary job harder instead of just thinking of something he could do tells me a lot about his personality.

1:52:18And that coworker that overheard has even less of a sense than Trey. Another coworker saying, damn, just let Trey give a gift to someone and put someone else's name in at random. Someone gets an unexpected gift and Trey doesn't have to receive one. Like, isn't that exactly the issue Trey is having? He doesn't want a gift. And so the coworker's brilliant solution is to gift someone else a gift they don't want. also what if there's 20 other people in the office and now someone who didn't contribute to secret santa randomly gets a gift and the other 19 people are upset i didn't get a gift i don't i didn't get a gift i don't think people will if they do that's oh but morgan like they can't like they people are crazy but maybe maybe they are crazy but like you need to when you're in a setting like that in work like you you need to kind of tame your crazy you know lauren i've gotten people people have been like pissed off when I was in doing OT people are pissed that they came to the company lunch potluck late and didn't get a cupcake and they actually like stormed out wow people are nuts people at Lululemon got pissed and pouted when they didn't get assigned to the pant wall I don't know what that means it was the best job in the store um yeah because everyone wants their pants that makes sense it's all adding up um ah checks out yeah you know I mean yeah you might be right but at the same time that would be kind of crazy like I think we're all adults we don't have to be like that inclusive like we should be inclusive but like if we decide to give somebody a random gift who didn't ask for a gift and then like there's 19 other people being like where's my gift it's like dude we don't have to be that like inclusive we're getting a little too crazy with it yeah like i'm sorry you guys just need to like maintain your feelings like that well that's the thing for trey it's like trey participate or don't yeah exactly like if you want again if you want to feel good for doing something then go donate your money yeah exactly do angel tree exactly it's actually really fun it's a great time or just like yeah exactly like shut up like if you like go and give your gift to somebody else and just be like give it to somebody who is playing the game and give them an extra bonus gift they'll probably love it there you go there you go, Trey.

1:54:28They're the winner of the game. They'll be so happy. There you go. And then other people might feel left out, but we don't have to be that inclusive. We can sometimes give one person an extra little thing to make their day. I like it. We do get an update. Okay, let's do it. Hey guys, this issue has been resolved. You can see some of my replies for the full story. In short, I've asked him to handle the logistics of his gift and I'm going to let him play. The post is still getting some traction. I was going to ask the mods to close it, but I really enjoy reading about people's work Secret Santa experiences.

1:55:00So keep the stories coming. I'd like to say a few things and some points that keep getting made. One, just let him play and don't put his name in. And then just one person won't have to buy a gift. It takes the fun out of the game for most people. Like we saw with Trey, pretty much everyone wants to buy a gift for someone. That's why they play. Getting gifts is always fun too, of course. But we all love to buy gifts for people. And I'm not going to take that away from someone. Two, I pressured him into participating when he didn't want to. That's goofy. No, I'm not even going to read that one.

1:55:29Three, have a raffle for whatever gift he gets. My response, to be frank, I just really don't want to set this up. Yeah. I was pressured into doing The Secret Santa by my coworkers again because I've done it in the past and no one else will really organize it. But I'm extremely busy at work right now and I have so many issues. Last year with managers getting involved, I didn't really want to have to do it again. Before you all say I shouldn't have done it again, I'll explain myself a little. For one, it started as an alternative to an absolute terrible job our company does for their Christmas gifts.

1:55:58It ends up being a lottery every year, with some people getting huge flat screens and others getting a dog bowl. We started doing Secret Santa as our own way of taking control and making things fair and fun, and also being able to further bond with each other. It's a small company. We're all pretty close, especially us hourly folks. Two, the company is shutting down on December 31st, and this is a way for us to kind of go out on a high note in regards to our friendship and work relationships. Some of us may never see each other again. It's been a great bonding experience for us in the past, so I figured we should do it one last time while we can.

1:56:30Well, I've rambled on long enough. Thanks for listening, everyone. You're welcome. Yeah, Opie has another comment. Basically, I told him that he could choose to find someone to put in his place or write down to donate to a charity in his name. He is thinking about putting another of our co-workers' kids down for fun. I'm going to let him participate so long as he gets it figured out on his own. There we go. There you go, Trey. There we go, everyone. Wasn't that hard, was it? Come on. This episode is brought to you by Revolve. My summer has been jam-packed with moments where I just want to look cute.

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1:57:44That's revolve.com slash THT. You can shop our faves and get 15 % off your first order. Offer available for a limited time, so don't miss out. This episode is brought to you by Chrysler. Life with kids is basically a never-ending series of plot twists. One minute everyone's buckled in, the next someone's dropped a snack, lost a shoe, or needs a bathroom break immediately. That's why the newly designed Chrysler Pacifica is built for real life. With thoughtful features like stow-and-go seating, hands-free sliding doors, and passenger seating up to eight, it helps keep everything moving. Because family life isn't about the perfect moments.

1:58:22It's about making the most of any moment. Visit your local dealer or Chrysler.com to learn more and schedule a test drive today. Chrysler is a registered trademark of SCAUS LLC. That was fun. That was good. Next one. Let's see if it's just as fun. Cute little petty problems. Love it. Love it. This one is coming from Am I the Asshole? 16 days old. titled, Am I the Asshole for Telling My Friend That Proposing Is Not a Suitable Christmas Present? I have a friend who I'll be calling Harry. Harry and I have known each other for over a decade. We're in our early 30s. He was a part of my own wedding party, and 99 times out of 100, he's an all-around great guy.

1:59:09Harry has been dating his girlfriend for around four years. She's an absolute diamond and brings out all of the best qualities in him. A couple of weeks ago, Harry confided in me that he was planning to propose to his partner over Christmas. She's very family-focused, and he is setting it up so his parents unexpectedly visit them. They're doing Christmas with her family this year, early in the morning, and he will propose during present opening in front of his and her parents and her siblings and their partners and kids. When chatting about arrangements a couple of days ago, Harry made a throwaway comment about the engagement, saving him some time in relation to the rest of his Christmas shopping.

1:59:49I asked him what he meant, and he said that since he was proposing, he hadn't planned to get his partner anything else for Christmas. I said that the two were not mutually exclusive. When I got engaged, albeit not at Christmas, my husband still got me a birthday present the following month. Harry raised that the ring was costing him more than several usual Christmas and birthday presents combined. which is true, but it is not the case that he is scraping together every last penny to buy it, and there is absolutely money to spare for a couple of gifts that he would usually get his partner. I also pointed out that since he is hoping to surprise her with the proposal, that it would become quite obvious that something was afoot if there were no presents for her from him under the tree.

2:00:40We went back and forth for a while, with Harry continuing to take the stance that getting engaged is definitely a gift. I said that it was all well and good, but that his girlfriend will absolutely have bought him presents, and that he will both appreciate and use, and that an engagement is in no way the same kind of exchange in that sense. Additionally, while his partner is in no way materialistic, she is someone who appreciates the give and take of mutual present exchanges like Christmas, white elephants, etc. We didn't have a major fight or anything like that about this, but Harry said that he's probably not going to share more about the engagement with me because I have differing views.

2:01:22I don't want to be a stubborn old fool on something I'm clearly wrong about, so I would appreciate the view of internet strangers on this. well well first of all it's not necessarily opi's place it's kind of their relationship and whatever he decides to do he's going to decide to do i think it's totally fine if you're trying to give helpful hints and clues to what would make you know his partner happier but like i don't think you need to really like get in a fight over this and lose sleep over it because it's kind of what do you think i mean you're you're the gift person though so like you're probably like no no no like this guy shall not move forward with a proposal unless he also has christmas gifts um i don't know because i i understand where he's coming from where like okay this engagement ring was a lot of money but at the same time like he will also get a ring eventually that will probably costs a decent amount of money.

2:02:27So it balances it out. And like, I think I just kind of have an issue with like, oh, well, this proposal is such a gift to her. You're getting engaged. It's about both of you. Yeah, you're the one asking and giving her this ring. And so maybe in this relationship, their engagement is, you know, more for her. The proposal is more for her. But I still think it is about both of you because an engagement leads to your marriage. So. but the ring is also very expensive like yeah it is like yeah i feel like women are not yeah women are typically not expected to pay as much for the ring for their partners justin's ring costs more than mine right but like that's not just never know common though you know what i mean like a lot of times like people like i don't know i like i had it and ex who was like adamant about wanting one day to get me a ring that was like 30 or 40 grand.

2:03:21And I was like, absolutely not. So crazy. I was like, I wouldn't accept that even if that was like affordable for you at the time, I would just feel like I would rather have that money go to so many other things. But anyway, my point is, is that like a lot of people like spend a ton of money on these rings. And so I don't know what he's working with, but OP did mention like there's money to spare. So I do think that I do think it would be, you know, if you're going to propose to somebody like a lot of people propose a random time throughout the year and then they also still they're not like, oh, I'm not going to give you Christmas presents this year because I proposed.

2:03:57But then again, maybe some couples do that. You know, maybe that was something that like they agreed upon. Like I'm you want the best ring. Would you be OK without having like presents for like a year because I'm going to have to save up all that money to get an extra nice ring. I don't know. Maybe that is something that they. I don't know. I if someone proposed to you on Christmas, would you be OK not getting anything else? I'm not like a really big gift person. So I yes. Love presents. But that's but I know that that's that for someone like you, like that's your love language. Like it feels so thoughtful.

2:04:34and I just I don't know that's like not really my yeah thing so I I think I would be happier if they gave me a gift on top of it because I like opening presents I think it's fun to unwrap stuff so even if it was something small I would just like a little yeah a little something yeah like just you know like maybe like a face my favorite face mask or something like at home face mask like yeah just fun things to unwrap I like that yeah but I wouldn't be too hung up on the idea of getting like me another nice gift. I also think I've I've read this once and oh, I know where you're going with this. Yeah.

2:05:10And I yeah. And I don't know. It's true. OK, it is true. But if you propose to people on a holiday or their birthday, it's looked at as a gift. So if you guys get a divorce, then they get to keep the ring because it was a gift because it was a gift. Whereas in a lot of states, they would have to return the ring if you have a divorce or if you just call off the wedding I should say yeah because yeah because once you get as we talked about in last episode we recorded and patreon prenups obviously you can make them whatever you want to but like if you're just going off of like an engagement community property yes and you end the wedding so so at that token it actually is a very nice gift I know I think maybe this is where it boils down to I don't think you should propose on holidays I don't think you should propose on moments that are just meant to be A holiday or about that other person like a graduation but like Let the holiday be the holiday because then now every christmas every christmas.

2:06:09It's like oh we got engaged on christmas Oh, we got engaged on christmas. Yeah, but people don't really they kind of It's more of like a acknowledgement rather than a whole celebration how people do with their anniversaries Are usually their wedding date. So I don't think it would really be that big of a deal I don't know. Some people are getting so crazy that this one influencer just changed her baby's birth date because she didn't want her baby's birth date to be so close to Christmas, which you can't change someone's birth date, by the way. That's not a thing. But like people don't even like having their birthday around Christmas.

2:06:41So it's like, I don't know. Like, I just think let the holidays be the holidays. Give that person the full moment a different day. and I personally I would be annoyed because like why are you skimping out on my Christmas presents if you would have picked a random Tuesday I would have still got Christmas presents and I would have been engaged yeah so why are you messing with me now why are you taking away presents oh my god you you crack me up Morgan is like whenever I lived with her she'd always order something from somewhere so anywhere it could be a regular piece of mail I got and she'd be like oh presents and I'm like oh someone sent you something she's like no it's from me to me from me presents I love presents I just love them no they just make me feel good it's like one little like dopamine hit as you open that tape presents I just I have like such a I don't know I have a really bad like buyer's remorse and then I have like a hard time with like space and like where I fit everything so I just Oh, I return a lot of shit.

2:07:46Yeah. I hate returning. I'm so bad at returning. So then I end up sticking with it and then I end up not using it and then I feel guilty. It's this whole thing, which is why I think that I'm a little bit like averse to it all. But I get it. Like I do, you know, like I'm wearing this ring that you got me. And like this ring, it doesn't take up space. It's so cute. So if you give good gifts, you're fine. Yeah. Like I know I'm like I understand the concept of like gift giving feeling really good because this like made me feel good, you know. So like I do understand that concept. It's just doesn't come as like common and as often for me.

2:08:24So that's why I'm like being we're going to have always been like a little bit like we've always known this that we're a little bit different in that aspect. For sure. That's why like I love us discussing the story because I'm like, I don't think I would care. But like I looked at Morgan. I'm like, but I think you know, I know. But overall, this one, I don't think you're the asshole for pointing out that this might be tacky to not gift her other things. I also do think she would know something's up then, 100%, especially with his parents rolling up. And, like, if you want it to be a surprise, I don't even care if they're fake boxes.

2:08:57If you really don't want to gift her something, put some fake-ass boxes under the tree. But I will say If you give her something Even if it's like a little something A massage gift card Or whatever you want to do Manicure, she'll want to get her nails done after this Do something And then be like, oh, oops There's one more I forgot about And then you get down on one knee Then it's really a fun surprise A good proposal I think that is the best way to do it It amps it up I just think that depending on their relationship, like it wouldn't be the worst thing. But I agree that it would be way better to have it be cute and like a few little gifts just to warm it up.

2:09:43And then with the zinger. Yeah, because then she really won't see it coming. Okay, top comment on this one with 15k upvotes. I'm just reading it now. And it's like, it's kind of what I felt and someone goes, not the asshole. I think the idea that proposing is a gift from him to her as opposed to a mutually joyful step forward for both of them is a bit distasteful. And this comment down adds on it. That's how I'd feel about it. I got engaged at my birthday party and I still got a switch to from him. The engagement is a mutual celebration of our love, not a gift to me. That's they're saying it really concisely and that's how I felt I know I know I guess I'm just like if roles were reversed though and if I was spending that much money on a ring for my partner I feel like I would still view it as of course our partnership in itself is a gift and a celebration for both of us mutually but that amount that you spend on saving towards that ring yeah is still this like special gift I I don't I mean might have to do a poll on this one.

2:10:53Might have to do a poll. We just recorded a Patreon episode, too. And we had a story on there. We were like, damn, might have to do a poll. Yeah. And I was like, very we've been very opposite today. Yeah, I know. That's so true. Every single story. We're like on the opposite ends. And we're like, like talking our takes out. I don't want I don't want to do the poll. I don't want people to all just like just dogpile me. I don't want that. And they probably will. No. Let's just not do that. No. And I do agree with you. I do agree that like having like the gifts is nicer. Again, some people do have the conversation though like, hey, like if you want an extra nice like ring, like are you okay with us not like exchanging gifts?

2:11:38Yeah, then have that conversation. Or like I think for me, I think you need to have a conversation about the engagement ring your partner wants before just doing it. I don't think engagements should be total surprises. Like I think you should at least have a conversation of like, where do you see us going? Do you want to get married? Do you like, blah, blah, blah. Like you should be on a similar page. And I get wanting to maybe have a surprise and pick out the ring, but like that person has to wear it. So for me, I was very involved. I didn't want a real diamond. I think real diamonds are a waste of money.

2:12:11I wanted a moissanite ring. And so my ring was really like cost effective. Yeah. Yeah. Frugal. Yeah. And I just think like, again, who is this ring about? Like, does she even care if he spends that much? No. Maybe she'd want a Moise Knight so she actually gets presents at Christmas. Yeah. So like, I don't know. But I think it again, like people just kind of keep pointing to the attitude of it. Precisely. It's not even about the gift or lack of it's about the mindset. Yep. The mindset of I'm the gift you are getting. Well, OK, but I also think we're hearing this from op a friend for sure not not even yeah not even the actual like yeah the guy and so i'm like op i don't know he might have just been defensive because he's like my friend is telling me like how i need to show up for one of the biggest moments of in my life and now and i i worked so hard to like save for this ring and i'm so excited about it and i like and and now he's telling me that i'm not enough and so now i'm getting defensive like maybe he was like feeling like like you don't know my relationship like you don't know my life like maybe that's why he like responded that way and then like oh he's retelling I don't know like yeah that no that's a very valid point I bet you anything Harry's gonna go out and buy gifts after this conversation yeah he's probably just was defensive and was like yeah feeling a little shameful yeah like you don't know me like don't like no what I'm doing is right and then he's probably gonna go and be like god damn it and go and like buy a bunch of presents like that's what I'm picturing in my head which is why I think that I'm just like this conversation in itself sounds just like two people just like bickering and one person being defensive because it is a really big moment and like you do you have to save I mean not you don't have to like obviously there's affordable options but it sounds like he did save a lot for this ring and it's probably really like nerve-wracking and so I think I just wouldn't be surprised if he got defensive because of that and then it's actually gonna like go and do something yeah yeah I'd be very curious um a lot of people are like to be honest this would be a deal breaker for me it unhears some underlying attitudes that i would not want to be stuck with for the rest of my life plus it makes it look like a shut up ring in front of everyone else embarrassing you know disagree with that i just am like if if this was coming more from like the source then i could have more of a read but it's like i don't i honestly don't know how that person got there like that seemed really aggressive where It's like, it's a shut up ring.

2:14:37Yeah. You have no information about their relationship at all. Like because he's proposing at Christmas and chose not to buy an additional present. It's a shut up ring. Right. That's a reach. That's right. That's actually not even a reach. That's a you pulled it out of your ass out of thin air. Yeah. Like that's that's weird. Right. Yeah. So that's what I'm saying. I'm like, it's hard to really like hard come down hard on this guy because it's not even coming from him. This is just like a friend retelling a story. And I just think that like if it were to be me and I were to have like saved up and been really like nervous about a really big moment.

2:15:17And then my friend were to be like kind of being like, what are you thinking? I might first knee jerk reaction get defensive too. For sure. But overall question, am I the asshole for telling my friend that proposing is not a suitable Christmas present? No, you're not the asshole. Like, oh, yeah. I think you know, it's your friend. Yeah. He was your groomsman. You're close enough to where you can be like, hey, buddy, get another present. Yeah. Not the asshole. Agreed. There is a little bit of an edit. OP quotes, he shouldn't propose to her in front of others. And they say, getting engaged in front of family would suit his partner to a T.

2:15:49This is definitely something she would want based on previous conversations. Quote, you shouldn't involve yourself too much in your friend's life. OP says, the discussion lasted maybe five minutes while we were having a drink, including Harry saying he'd not bring it up with me anymore. In no way have I told him point blank to do slash not to do something. And we have spoken civilly on other topics since. I would hope that everyone has a friend or two who will be honest with them if they think they're in the wrong, to be frank. My question here centered on the proposal as the gift, not on if I'm a bad friend.

2:16:27I think OP has their head on straight. Also knowing that it was only like a five minute convo. It's not that serious. Yeah, it made it seem like it was like a full on like whole brawl and they weren't talking. And, you know, it kind of seemed a little more dramatic. But I, yeah, there's. It's a bit more chill. Yeah. Yeah, no, I agree with that. And I think this is just like a good rule of thumb for like everyone listening. I think like more so like the hot question to take from this one is like should you propose on a holiday in general? That's totally up to each individual though. I'm like I want to know what you guys think in the comments.

2:17:06Maybe that'll be the poll. Should you propose on a holiday? I think the whole thing should be you should know your partner well enough to know if that's what they would like. So you're in the car right now. You're driving. Here's your opportunity if you're listening with your partner. Talk about how you would like to be proposed to. Yeah. Throw out all the hypotheticals. Here's your opportunity, guys. Pause the episode. Talk about it. Do you want to be proposed to on a holiday? Yes or no? If it's yes, do you still expect other gifts? Yes or no? Do you want a real diamond? Yes or no? Do you want even a generic ring?

2:17:46Do you want gold? Do you want silver? Talk about what you want. Do you want to get him a ring shortly after? So you both wear rings until the wedding. Talk about it. Here's your chance. But you should know. I agree. You totally should know. Because some people that is like their dream. I watch enough Christmas movies to know that that is a romantic hallmark dream for some people. So I can't imagine like I mean Christmas is kind of I think in Minnesota like it's snow and you're bundled and you're cozy and cuddly. It does feel a little bit more romantic, but like insert like Valentine's Day. A lot of people get proposed to on Valentine's Day.

2:18:25That's a big holiday. That counts. It doesn't have to be just Christmas too. Yeah. Like I was thinking like I would take St. Patty's Day. Really? Just kidding. I just, I just was trying to think of a random holiday. Like 4th of July. I don't want to be proposed to on 4th of July. See, I don't think I care. Some people don't. Yeah, I don't think I do. I just... I care about too much. That's my problem. Well, I care about too much in other aspects. So, like, I'm also in mental health. Don't worry. We're both... Just not right here. Not in this circumstance. Not in this one, but in other ones. You're not alone.

2:19:01But yeah, no, our brains are definitely, you know... There's a lot of fire up there. Okay. Oh, holidays, man. They bring out some crazy... I think a lot of people are going to get proposed to this holiday. Someone's listening right now, and they're in the car with their partner. driving to the proposal and then if they answer that question where it's like i don't want to get proposed to on a holiday and the person's just the person's like sliding the ring out of their pocket and just hiding it like fuck fuck fuck yeah just like pulls over for gas and calls the whole family like abort got it we're not doing it anymore game over we got to propose in a couple weeks oh god if this happens and you literally get proposed to after listening to this episode invite us to the wedding like what what what we're getting you don't have time i don't have time i always say that i do get a decent amount of wedding invites still from you guys and i i look at your pictures and they're so beautiful but yeah i'm very short on time right now but i love you guys so just tag me on instagram maybe yeah okay thank you lauren for hopping on for these holiday stories.

2:20:09See you in the new year. Okay. I don't want to leave yet. No, I'm kidding. Bye, guys. Okay, bye. On to the next guest. Hi, friends. Look who our last and final guest is for the holiday stories. You know, this has been a long time that I got to join you for Two Hot Takes, but what's really interesting, Two Hot Takes, that's over there. I know. We went on a field trip. We are on the Father Knows Something set. For those that are new to the show or, I don't know, maybe you've been out of the loop for a while, my dad used to come on in the early days quite a bit. Before we even thought it was going to be a show.

2:20:50And some of my two hot takes were a little off the wall. Were you out there? I don't remember that, but people liked your responses enough that they wanted you to start a podcast as well. So my dad has his own show. He takes all listener write-ins and it's basically two hot takes, but with a dash of dad advice and me and Justin chiming in from time to time and still chaotic per usual, really good. But that's like our second little kid. So we're over on his set because we just got done recording an episode And I figured, hey, let's include him in the holiday episode and cap it off with some wise wisdom on this naughty or nice, ho-ho, horrible holidays.

2:21:37And a hot take. Maybe. Okay. Maybe. Let's see if dad has it hot. Okay, let's get into these. Okay, dig in. Okay, let's dive into this. Okay, this is coming from A-I-T-A-H, Am I the Asshole? titled, Am I the Asshole for Blaming My Fiance for Thanksgiving Being a Disaster? Absolutely. You think asshole? I don't know. He probably deserved it, but let's find out before. Let's not be too quick to judge. So you might actually be not the asshole. He may not be. No. I'm sitting in my pajamas, fuming about this whole thing, and my fiance is acting like he holds no equal footing here. I need to know I'm not crazy.

2:22:20When I was about four years old, my parents introduced me to their friend Rose She started spending a lot of time with us and eventually moved in They were always close friends and she was very good to me, but I didn't think anything weird of it A lot of people knew I lived with family. So I thought it was like that When I was a preteen, they explained to me that they were all together Not polygamy or a sister wife situation but Rose was in love with and dating both of my parents. It was a little jarring but I accepted it and honestly it didn't change much. Rose was still one of the people who helped me with homework, pitched in with dinner, taught me how to ride a bike, etc.

2:23:03She was there for every big moment, even the sad ones. The only thing that changed is they started kissing one another in front of me but nothing gross, just the typical parents' pecs or whatever. I knew this wasn't normal for every family. My friends were fine with it when they found out. Not all of their parents were as understanding or accepting, but we were old enough that we could see each other outside of our homes, and it didn't impact me a whole lot socially. Twice, I had a boyfriend who found it weird, but it was revealed early on in our relationship, so it wasn't a huge heartbreak. I've been with my fiance for the past three years.

2:23:41We've been engaged for one When we started dating I explained to my parents and he was cool with it He's hung out with them and spent the holidays with us His family lives across the country and they haven't been able to fly out to visit much We've only afforded one trip there since I started dating him The first time I was meeting them I asked my boyfriend to tell his parents about my parents and rose and asked him to let me know what they said He told me that they were completely fine with it. Every time we saw each other, it never came up specifically. But I would mention Rose in passing, and no one batted an eye.

2:24:18So I figured all was fine. This year, his parents were able to fly out for Thanksgiving. My fiancé and I were hosting. My parents and Rose were coming too. Again, I don't think much of it. Everyone's under one roof. Everything's nice and merry. then at some point I go to check on the food and when I come back things are noticeably awkward. Fiance's parents, my parents, and Rose all look uncomfortable. Fiance looks annoyed. I ask what's wrong but no one will tell me. I awkwardly announce that it's time to eat. The meal is quiet. Outside my parents and Rose are engaging with me. Fiance's parents leave for their hotel as soon as we're on eating and don't even bother to stay for dessert, I'm even more confused.

2:25:08My mom eventually pulls me into the other room and explains that while I was checking on the food, she, my father, and Rose were talking about a trip they're taking. Fiance's parents looked confused, and Fiance's mom asked, quote, Rose is going with you? My mom said, of course, which seemed to disturb them. My mom then said she explained that they were in a relationship together and that even further disturbed them. Somebody wasn't being, you know, clear. My mom told me that she was hurt, that I lied, that his parents were okay with them. It wouldn't have changed that they came, but they would have been more careful to not make it awkward.

2:25:54I told them I didn't lie at all. My fiance told me they were okay with it. She apologized for accusing me, and I apologized that she went through that. She, my dad, and Rose left not long after that. My fiance and I got into a huge argument after this. You think? He said he didn't know how to tell them, so he just didn't. I told him he's been lying to me for two and a half years and put everyone in an uncomfortable position. I asked what his parents thought and he had told them rose was my aunt who lived with them to save on rent I asked him what he expected to happen my parents and rose aren't making out and in people's faces but when they're in what they assume are safe spaces they act like they're in a relationship he claims it's all on his parents for being weirded out and making it awkward I said no this is on him.

2:26:52He lied to everyone and made it terrible for everyone. Sure, his parents could have acted normally, and they are at fault for not recovering and trying to have a nice meal, but he's still more so at fault. He just doubled down and said he didn't do anything wrong. He is now mad at me and says that I shouldn't be blaming him for this, and instead should just be mad at his parents. I am just so confused and lost, and I'm wondering if I'm going crazy by being mad at him. Am I the asshole? Well, I gave that answer in my first sentence. You actually were thinking he was not the asshole. No, no, he is the asshole.

2:27:34You do think he's the asshole? Absolutely. Okay. Why? Why do you think that? Well, he lied. He didn't come clean. So my question really is, who fixes this mess? I think he needs to. Absolutely. He's got to be the one to go in there and he's got to go do what he should have done in the very first place and fess up and say, this might be more common than what we think in our lives with people, but this is definitely something that's going on in this family. And don't be rocked. Be prepared for what it is. and if you have questions, ask your questions and whatever it is. I mean, we're family. Look, this couple's getting married.

2:28:18Yeah. I mean, they're going to have children. Well, they may not now. I don't know if they're going to make it to the altar after this one. This is a pretty big deal. This is a very big deal. This is a pretty big deal. Because it goes back into truth. And, you know, do you believe your partner? What else are they going to fucking lie about? I know. Well, the thing is, too, it's like it should be on him to go and fix this. But can he even be trusted? Like, first and foremost, you need to go and clear the air with your parents and just be like, hey, guys, I don't know how to tell you. They're all together.

2:28:49That's their that's how it is. And I think he needs to apologize to her parents. Absolutely. Because that's uncomfortable. Like, you're going in. You think it's a safe space. And they they even said, like, we just would have been more quiet about it. We wouldn't have made it awkward. They're not in the wrong at all. He really did mess up by lying. And for two and a half years. He is clearly the asshole. There is no doubt about it. And he's got to fix this thing. If he's going to be in a relationship, even if she allows him to stay, there's a lot of fixing to do here. For sure. For his family and her family.

2:29:29And the only one that has to do apologies here is him. And he has to own up to all of it with everybody. He better be prepared to take the heat and show what kind of man he is and how strong he is to do it. Because she is totally clear on this. And so are her parents. I agree. Her parents have... It's their life. That's right. This is acceptable to them. We live in a country where you can do what you want as long as you're not hurting anybody else. And they're not. They're very open about this. And they have a love and it should be respected. Yeah, I agree. I mean, a lot of people are kind of having more mixed reactions than I would expect, but overall, I'm seeing that most are leaning not the asshole.

2:30:12A-I-T-A-H doesn't have a bot that takes all the votes and determines it, but here's a comment that OP does respond to. Your fiance is so obviously in the wrong here for exactly the reasons you identified. There's not even any evidence his parents were embarrassed about the polyamory. they could have just as easily been embarrassed that their son lied to them op responds yeah i haven't spoken to them so i obviously don't know their thoughts if it was just a lot to deal with at once or if they felt embarrassed for initially being nasty and confused over rose attending the vacation someone else responds and goes op i would text and email them and tell them that you're sorry they didn't know that you asked your fiance to tell them about your family dynamics several years ago when you first started dating and that he told you that he had and that you had no questions or issues.

2:31:04But again, I don't think it's her place to go and be like, your son was lying to you. I told him to tell you blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's really on him. And if he is unwilling to fix it, this isn't someone you want to be with. He's cowardly. Done. Rap. crap. The thing is, what do we call it? Say it with me. What? DTD. Which means? Dump the dude. We all know DDD. Dump that dude. If he can't be honest, he can't man up to this. He did it. Yeah. And you know what? This is not normal. Like this is not the typical usual thing you encounter. So to be a little surprised, yeah, I get it.

2:31:50But again, like it's none of their business. and even if he would have told them and they had a bad reaction, then you just know how to navigate it going forward. You don't do shared holidays. You seat them on opposite sides of the venue at the wedding, but you need to be transparent and honest. When we date someone for two years, we know their family. We've talked to them. They kind of know the dynamic they're going to walk into. I'm surprised that she didn't have conversations or that they didn't even ask her about it. And maybe that she should have even find it funny that they didn't ask her more about it.

2:32:27I think they did, but she's only been over to their place once during dating. And I think how it was kind of phrased is like the questions they asked were just normal questions that it wasn't like, so how does your parents' relationship work with Rose? How does she play in? Who do they share? They weren't getting specific. And it's not her job to do that. No. I mean, it's quite clear. It's not really their business. You know, her job is, I mean, she could have said, look, you know, my family is doing great. My mom, my dad, Rose, everyone's wonderful. And they could have said, oh, yeah, you got this in their mind.

2:33:01Oh, yeah, Rose. And not even use the word Aunt Rose, just Rose. And she would think it's totally fine. Clearly, he's at fault. I'm not saying that he is not. I just also recognize that, you know, in conversations that I have with, you know, people that I'm involved in family, I do get involved and we have a lot of conversations about all the characters in our family. And we all, and I look at everybody in the family as a character. For sure. For sure. We have a couple more comments from OP. This is the first time that she's caught him lying about something, but he does tend to avoid conflict. He is the one who usually just agree with something just to kind of end the conversation and move on.

2:33:44They have been working on it and OP has told him it's okay if we don't agree on something. He doesn't have to bend to what I or someone else wants. He can have opinions too. They are in a polyamorous relationship, not polygamy. OP wanted to be like very clear they're not polygamist, but we do get an update. Okay. So OP goes on to just kind of explain a lot of the common questions. Like why didn't I tell his parents myself about my parents and Rose. This was a decent point. While I don't believe it is my fault for what occurred, I did understand the POV that this was my situation, my family, and it's something at minimum we should have done together.

2:34:26I guess when it comes to situations like that, people's parents finding out about my own, usually friends, they just do it for me. It's not something I ask them to do. They usually ask me permission before our families meet, and I say yes. I thought it would be easier if my fiance told them before our arrival, so it wasn't just me word vomiting, hi, nice to finally meet you. By the way, my parents are in a polycule. But looking back, yes, I can acknowledge I should have offered to tell them as a couple. That being said, if he felt that uncomfortable doing it alone, I wish he would have told me.

2:34:58He should have told her. This was, again, she has no ownership of this at all. He said, I did it. He could have easily said, I can't do it. Do it with me. He could have done that. Well, OP does go on to add point number two. Do his parents think that my parents and Rose are related? And so OP is now like, oh, they assumed Rose was an aunt. My mind went to family friend, but Jesus Christ, realizing they probably thought this was a flowers in the attic type situation. No shit they freaked out. So they're probably actually thinking that maybe Rose is related and an actual aunt versus a family friend that got the term aunt.

2:35:44Well, I don't know what they think, but the bottom line is he at this point in time, the minute after this whole fiasco started, he should have been within five minutes at his parents' hotel telling them, I'm sorry, mom and dad, I failed to educate you properly. I was told to do this two years ago, and I am wrong. And let me get you every, let me, let's get everybody clear so nobody's uncomfortable. He had that, he had that obligation to do within five minutes after this event, and he still has not done it. Yeah. So here's the actual update, you guys. We do get like beyond the clarifying points.

2:36:22There's more? Of course there's more. Anyway, on to the update. As per point number two, I realized the context that they were lacking may be playing a part in all of this. So early this morning, I texted and asked if we could meet up and talk. They were all for it. I went without my fiance as we still weren't really talking. We met for breakfast and the first thing I asked was for them to give their side. As most of you expected, the weirdness and judgment they were giving was because they assumed Rose was my mom's sister. They actually seemed relieved when I explained the whole story and are supportive.

2:37:00They want to properly re-meet my family, which I said was sweet. I didn't want to get into the whole, I don't know where your son and I stand, as that wasn't their problem. However, his mom did clarify, so my fiance's name knew the whole story this whole time and lied. Yes, yes, the shithead lied. Your shithead son. I was honest and said yes. I said maybe I should have made sure he actually told them, but his dad actually interrupted and said if he promised to tell them, then it was on him to say it. They were both very disappointed in him. They actually said what a lot of you did. Even if he lied for all this time, he should have spoken up when things got awkward and smoothed out the situation.

2:37:45He still failed. Or even grabbed me too. They felt even worse, but I told them it wasn't their fault, given the context of the situation, I don't blame them for acting weird. The meeting ended on a positive note. We're all supposed to have lunch later on, but given everything with my fiancé, I didn't feel great about going, so I had him go alone. I told his parents ahead of time, and they understood. When fiancé came back from lunch, he apologized. He said he wasn't sure how to tell them and kept meaning to. He also kept hoping it would naturally come up. I pointed out it wasn't that he just didn't tell them, he actively lied.

2:38:23Of course, they never suspected Rose was anything more than an aunt in my stories, because that's the lie he planted. He was sincere in his apology, but then he mentioned he got a tongue thrashing from his parents, and I wondered if he would have apologized had they not told him what a jerk he was. I said I understood if he felt weird about telling them, but he should have told me. We could have navigated shit together. Instead, he let it explode and then did zero to help clean it up, nor did he take accountability until mommy and daddy scolded him. He made my parents and Rose look bad, made me look even worse, and most importantly, he lied to me and his parents for two and a half years.

2:39:02How am I supposed to trust him again about anything? I listed some of the examples you guys gave. He got quiet and said he understood, but he wanted to rebuild the trust. I asked if he was really okay with my family dynamic, and he insisted he is. He says he loves my family and really has no issues. He just didn't know how to tell them. I said I want to believe him, but you can never fully trust a liar again. He asked what we could do to fix this. I said I needed time. He offered counseling, and I said I'd consider it. We had started planning our wedding a few weeks ago, but that has been put on hold indefinitely.

2:39:38I had been living with him since the engagement, but I'm back with my parents and Rose for now. I have to decide if this is something I can live with going forward. It's only been a few hours so I genuinely have no idea if I can forgive him for this and move on. One person said, hopefully this will be a funny story one day. Remember the Thanksgiving where your parents didn't know who Rose was and I don't even know if I could ever get there. I love him. I thought he was my person. I don't want to throw it away but I need some space. If we move forward with the relationship, we will absolutely be going to counseling.

2:40:13I told him even if we break up and I don't go, he needs to enter therapy for his conflict avoidance. He didn't disagree. He also called my parents and Rose to apologize. They were civil, but I know they are not happy. Fiance's parents, however, invited them out to a do-over dinner before they head back to the West Coast. And with my blessing, they're going. It'll be nice if they can be friends after all of this. That's where we are. Everything is so fresh and I still don't know what I want yet. I'm going to take the holidays to reset and rethink about a lot. Thank you for all the advice. We definitely want to watch for these updates.

2:40:51See what she does to it. Oh yeah. I mean, this is super fresh. This is a trust issue and she has handled us with such grace. and a lot. Yeah. I mean, totally in, in control of who she is and what it takes to get it done. I know. We like this woman. We do. And I mean, it is tough. It, it, it's really, really hard when a lie like just shakes you to your core and your relationship. And it's like, how do we get that back? But you know, they're still pretty young. I shut my computer thinking and I'm ready. I'm like, they seem pretty young at least, but now I'm realizing we have no mention of age. So I don't know how young they are actually.

2:41:36You know, he, I don't care how old. You still, you don't lie for two and a half years. You don't do that. You got to grow up. Not in this whole thing. You certainly, especially when they're coming to dinner. I really, really, really love his parents though. Oh, they're great. Like they just kind of got with the program, felt bad about how they reacted, wanted to make it right, taking them out to dinner. I mean, they're good eggs. I'm sure they raised a good egg. He's just maybe got some serious issues with conflict avoidance. And after some therapy could really work through that and you can build the trust back.

2:42:14But hey, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. And you move on and you find the next one. Wow. I know. If you are on your way to a holiday party and you're lying to your partner, you got a couple minutes to pause this and come clean. I would recommend it. Come clean, guys. That's all I got for this episode of Two Hot Takes. I believe this is the last episode of 2025. So I finished 2025 for you. You did. Won't see you until the new year. We do have an episode coming on the first. No days off this year. Worked through the wedding, worked through the holidays. Love you all so much and just want to make sure you're fed.

2:42:57If you want even more content, come over to Patreon. We've got three amazing bonus episodes this month. Come over to Father Knows. If you haven't seen Father Knows, check it out. We have 182 episodes, I think, now. Are you sure? I'm pretty close. I keep shutting this computer and it's like, why? Why do I bother? that many? We've got 246 episodes of Two Hot Takes right now. Father Knows has 181 episodes. Ah, but I shot a couple that aren't there yet. So you're at 183. So we will hope that you'll see them all. And once you start, we know you'll enjoy it because That's the word on the street. We get started.

2:43:43We get hooked. We love it. It's not bad. So check it out. Yeah, but see you guys in the new year. Thank you for being here another year and supporting this show. It's amazing what this show has grown into and what we've accomplished this year. And 2026 is going to be even bigger, even better. But it wouldn't be possible without all of you guys. So thank you so much and happy holidays. And we'll see you in 2026. And maybe she might save me for the last show of 2026. Maybe. Maybe something before. We'll see. We'll see. Bye, guys.

2:44:23guys.

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2:45:21Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tremphaya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit TremphayaRadio.com. And we're back. Streaming on Peacock. May I present to you the award-winning staff of the Toledo Truth Teller. Slap me. Let's jar something loose. Ay, yes! I like that. The certified fresh series returns. Your boss, you always like this? Or is this just an act? Oh no, this is mad. Oysters, everybody! There is a certain satisfaction when you work with someone.

2:46:02Maybe we could be a family. You sadistic pig! The Paper. New season streaming September 9th, only on Peacock. This show gives me a reason to live.