251: Am I Overreacting?!

37:00She said, quote, Melissa, do you remember when you and Rachel got me that planter for Christmas. I leaned over and quietly asked Tom who Rachel was. He looked confused and said it was his mom's twin sister who disappeared years ago. He had never met her. I immediately felt uneasy. My mother's name is Rachel. Although she has gone by her middle my entire life. I also knew she had siblings, one sister and one brother. Tom had mentioned an uncle who passed away around 2010. At the time, I convinced myself it was just a strange coincidence. Later that night, people were moving around the house and Tom and I ended up sitting alone together with some wine.

37:48I whispered something like, I didn't know your mom had a twin. I think at that exact moment, it hit both of us. About a year ago, while dating, we had already realized our mothers shared the same birthday. We thought it was funny and even mentioned it casually once to his mom. We both started internally freaking out but kept it together for the rest of the visit. The next day, I flew home to see my mom. Before I got there, Tom and I came up with a plan. I told my mom I'd been talking to my gynecologist about some issues with my period and that one of the intake questions asked whether there were twins in my family.

38:27I said I didn't know and I figured I should ask. For the first time in my life, my mom admitted that she was a twin. When I asked why she never told me, she went on a long, drunken rant about how her sister Melissa was, quote, a literal demon. My mom is, unfortunately, drunk most of the time. She also mentioned cutting her family off completely when she was young. what is wild is that my mom and Tom's mom look absolutely nothing alike. One is tall and brunette, the other is short and blonde. At that point, everything clicked. We confirmed last names, which were the same. I also learned my mom's maiden name for the first time in my life, which I know is strange, but she is intensely private.

39:17Tom and I are first cousins. We have no idea what to do next. Our parents have never met, but they are supposed to meet at our wedding in six months. We've already built a future around each other. Tom has a great job lined up, and I've been accepted early decision to my dream law school in the same city. Our relationship is genuinely strong. We are best friends and deeply in love. Ending the relationship feels like throwing away the greatest joy either of us has ever had. Continuing it feels terrifying. There are obvious biological concerns if we ever want children. There is also the very real possibility of being disowned or pressured to split once the truth comes out.

40:04We are stuck and completely overwhelmed. What do we do? Oh my god. At first I was like, how is it at all possible that this wouldn't have come out sooner, meeting everyone's families? I so I thought about that Justin's family and my family did not meet until our engagement yeah but twin sisters that's crazy they're lucky that they weren't identical twin sisters I mean I guess then they would have known sooner but like genetically that would have been then their siblings then they're like half siblings yeah no I this is hard we had not this exact story but we had like a finding out I think they were more distantly related before.

40:50And I just feel like you can't. See, I'm okay with it. What? I know. God. How did they ever get past this? I mean, they weren't raised as family. I think it's very different if they're raised as family. We had a story ages and ages ago where this couple found out they were actually siblings and they had both been put in the foster care system had both like what her he had been adopted and she kind of aged out of the foster care I forget the exact details but they had been dating for six years yeah done everything a couple does in six years and they didn't want children anyways and so I don't know if we ever got an official update but like my take was overall like you weren't raised as siblings if you never would have found this out you would have been fine it wouldn't have impacted your life you don't want any children you're good yeah I just feel like the issue is I think it's more complicated if there was I think the one we read they already had kids together or something like they were already married it was already like way down the line yeah this is like they're not married yet and all of their family is going to find out.

42:11So like not only do they have to personally get over it in their head, everyone else is going to know if they do ever have children, even if they adopt, they're going to find this out one day. It's like this lifelong like scarlet letter almost. Yeah. And then also, yeah, I don't know. I think you'd have to have a really honest like internal conversation with yourself of like will I ever fully get over this yeah because I wouldn't you know I it's like cheating it's like if you if someone it's not like well kind of like when a partner cheats on the other one and they decide to get back together you have to be like will I conceivably ever really get past this and And then it's like not fair to keep doing it if I feel like this will always be a thing.

43:04One thousand percent. Yeah. Can I develop amnesia and forget it happened? Or at least like enough to move forward and be intimate and this and that. It would be tough, I think, on the story where they found out they were siblings. She did mention she's like like touching each other now is kind of like gross. but I feel like oh god people are just screaming in their cars and houses and at the gym siblings is a lot worse obviously than first cousins we're getting a lot of mean girls references today like no he's my second cousin yeah and that's the thing like everyone's like oh we're someone recently was like we're third cousins and I'm like I don't even know what that means no I don't really understand the cousin or like the second cousins once removed what no I've had our i've had discussions with this with my mother about this and i don't really understand it how it works i think well i would if you know i looked at a diagram of it yeah but i don't know i just don't think i don't think you can get past this i mean they certainly can never have biological children together so that's a whole other thing of like can we get past that like yeah can't if having kids was like one of their dreams am i okay with that and then also like it's not only like you have to get past it but then all of like all the time you spend with your family you're probably constantly like in your head thinking they know that we're related like everyone knows we're like it just it's such a barrier to put on like the freedom of how you live your life and express things with your partner and like the family that you eventually build like oh my god imagine being like a child even even if you were adopted and being and then later you're 18 years old or however old and you find out that your parents are related and then And it's like now they have to probably try to keep that a secret from people they date so that people don't look at them differently.

44:55And it's like this huge family secret when you're not even married yet. Like you don't have kids together yet. I know. And times really have changed because you always see this. Like Albert Einstein married his cousin. And he was awful, by the way. Edgar Allan Poe. And by the way, Einstein's wife did his math for him and he's talked about that. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. I mean, that's so many men. Look at Scott Fitzgerald. So many women have been written up. Took Zelda's writing and then put her in an institution. Yeah. Don't even get me started. Crazy. But there was another person that like, I think Edgar Allan Poe married his cousin.

45:35Oh, yeah. They were doing that all the time. And she was like child bride. It was really bad. Really, really bad. And obviously times have changed somewhat more positively in some areas and regards. so I'm like okay well there's a lot of billions of people out there maybe you move on but at the same time I think even if these two moved on they would always wonder what if and that would always be the one that got away I think they'll be wondering either way it's tough it's tough I'm not saying that they've done anything wrong no obviously like they did not know this sucks this is like a horrible situation out of all the fucking people in the world and they are from two very different hometowns.

46:18But your parents, your mothers are twins and everyone is going to know the moment you have the wedding. You could just elope and not have the wedding. But also then like think about how like beautiful and perfect your wedding day is. Now imagine that day but you're stressed that everyone's going to find out the whole day that your siblings are well cousins but I don't know. I know it was, yeah. Like there's just so many things. There are so many things you're signing up for genetically and emotionally and signing then other people up for by doing this. And again, it's not their fault. Like this, I just, I don't know.

46:55It's tough. It's, yeah. We do have some comments from OP. Yeah. So I have comments right now sorted by best on the post. The one at the very top says, I'm sorry, that sounds incredibly painful. And also the plot of a movie. OP responds, I certainly feel like I'm living in a horror movie. There's another comment here from someone. As I've said above, the cousin thing is one thing, but your mother meeting her estranged twin at your wedding is going to cause absolute carnage. This must be aired before the wedding, and you need to face the possibility of your mother making you choose. You say she's drunk most of the time, so I'm guessing she isn't the best mom, else you wouldn't have added that information.

47:38Tom's mother also needs to know. Or there's another option. You tell your mother. She demands you choose. You choose Tom. Disinviting your family to the wedding. You say nothing to Tom's mother. It is not recommended, but this is all going to go disastrously wrong. I think if I could accept he was my first cousin, I would just elope and keep the family separate as far as possible. So in one situation, you're having a secret from your family the rest of your life. Yeah. In the other situation, one of you is cutting off your family for the rest of your life. Like it's a no win. This is no there's no good situation or yeah you break up with currently the love of your life and it just fucking sucks.

48:22I know OP responds to that and says I fear if we tell our mothers then our whole support system will fall out beneath us if we don't break up. It's almost like we have to be willing to break up if we tell them and neither of us want to break up at all. it's an impossible situation I don't blame them and if they do stay together it's not their fault that they're in this situation it's just I want I want to know what they end up doing so badly I know so someone does say do one of those DNA tests and see how much DNA you share my grandparents found out they were third cousins after they got married their parents knew as well.

49:03Not quite the same, but they made it work. OP responds, this is good advice, but there's also some blissful ignorance here. Like, at what percent do we draw the line? Doing it by 5 % versus 6 % versus, I mean, how? We only have 23%. We're fine. That's so, that's quite a lot. It's like, it's like kind of like one of those things, like, what's the point in knowing that? like hey we're first cousins it is what it is like yeah yeah the dna percentage could vary but like does it make it any easier mentally to digest i don't think so so we do get a bit of an update no way it's a little bit of an edit here i didn't expect this to get so much attention are you kidding me look at this story but i appreciate all the kind words and encouragement I also appreciate everyone who reached out kindly in my DMs.

49:59Sorry, I haven't responded yet. As you'll soon read, my life is a little upside down. I wrote the original post in the early afternoon. At the time, my mother was out buying my brother new clothes for his upcoming semester. I decided I would confront her after dinner. Tom and I agreed that I would tell my mom that night, and then we would figure out how to tell his parents. Dinner came and I wasn't eating. My brother kept asking why, so I eventually gave in and told my mom I had something important I needed to talk to her about privately. She seemed to recognize the seriousness of my tone and told my brother to go to the gas station to buy scratchers.

50:36When he left, I told her everything, starting with quote, this is really big news, but I want you to know that I intend to continue my relationship with Tom. I told her I'd been at Tom's house and learned that Tom's mom had an estranged twin and that I was confident it was her. I said the full legal names of Tom's mom and his maternal grandparents. I knew I was right by the shade of red my mother turned. She kept saying, what? And is this a fucking joke? I even showed her Tom's mom's Facebook. My mother has no social media and never has, as far as I know. At first, my mom went silent while I sobbed.

51:22Then she erupted. She told me I needed to leave Tom immediately and never speak to him again. I told her I wasn't going to do that. She started yelling about how Tom's family was spreading lies about her to me. They do not even know. She was being paranoid. I told her I didn't need to tell them anything, that she could keep this secret and simply never meet them. Since his family is paying for the entire wedding, I suggested she not attend so she would never have to interact with them. That suggestion was not taken well. Well, yeah. She called me every name in the book. Whore, liar, bitch, cunt, etc.

52:01She screamed at me until she was blue in the face and told me she would not allow me to return to school for my final semester. Around this time, my brother came home. He is a pretty low-key guy and does not handle conflict well, so he went into the adjacent living room and scrolled on his phone. I told my mom I would marry Tom regardless and that if she chose to not be a part of my life, that was her decision. She called me ungrateful and continued screaming. Things escalated again when she demanded that I hand over my phone. Long story, I am actually on Tom's family's plan. She also demanded that I go to my room.

52:39I said no, that I'm an adult, and she threw a three-quarters full bottle of botanist gin at me. It hit my arm and shattered on the floor. This is when my brother stepped in and pulled me out of the house. We could hear her breaking things and swearing as we stood outside. Since my flight is scheduled early in the morning, my brother drove me to his friend's apartment near the airport. He works at the airport and lives about 15 minutes away. I'd never met this friend before. my mother texted me multiple times asking where I was and calling me awful names again but nothing else happened I'm writing this now from the airport waiting to board my flight I have a bruise on my arm but it is not serious Tom thinks I should have called the police but I could just not do that to my mom even if that ends up being the last time I ever speak to her my brother brought all of my belongings to me around 2 a.m.

53:32and then took me to a hotel connected to the airport. He is a saint. This is only half the update. After I left the house, during the drive to my brother's friend's place, I called Tom hysterically. He told me he thought he should tell his parents, and I agreed. After we hung up, around 10.30 p.m., Tom pulled his parents aside and told them everything. They had seen pictures of my mother on my Instagram before and had not recognized her, but once they looked again, they confirmed it was the Rachel that they knew. Melissa cried and cried. Tom's dad, I'll call him Richard, said the situation was very strange.

54:11They asked Tom a lot of probing questions, including whether we had been sexual and whether my mother knew. Tom told them everything. They were disappointed in him, but they did not dwell on that. After Tom explained what had happened with my mom earlier that night, Richard and Melissa completely changed their tone. They told him they still supported our marriage, but needed to make a game plan for how to handle this moving forward. They texted me, saying incredibly kind things, telling me nothing had changed, that I was still their daughter, and that they loved me. Melissa also shared why my mom became estranged from them.

54:51Now, this is only her side, and I may never hear my mom's, but apparently when my mom was in high school, she started to unravel emotionally. She would yell at her mother constantly and accuse her of favoring Melissa. Their father was the coach of the girls' basketball team, which Melissa played on, but my mom did not. And my mom felt rejected by both parents. During their senior year, my mom ran away with an older boy, not my dad. His family knew my grandparents well, so they assumed she was safe. But my mom told them she would never speak to them again, and she kept her word. The last they heard about her was three years later, when the boy's parents said that they had broken up and she moved to another city.

55:36This was the city where she later met my dad. They wrote letters, she never answered, and eventually respected her wish for no contact. All of this came secondhand from Tom, who heard it from his mom, while I was coming down from hysteria in an airport hotel room at dawn. The details may be fuzzy, but that is what I know. How I'm doing. I'm heartbroken and scared. I've only seen my mother be violent once before when she threw a brick at my brother for sneaking a girl in I was always the perfect child and now I cannot imagine her ever speaking to me again It feels like I chose the people she felt rejected by over her My heart breaks for my mom, but I love tom and I do not believe it is fair to either of us to abandon this love I am also scared of what she might do next.

56:28She went to my grandmother's house and my brother's girlfriend's house trying to find me. My brother refused to tell her where I was. She knows where my apartment on campus is. I have considered moving in with Tom for safety, but his parents asked us to stop being intimate until marriage, and I do not think they would approve of us living together. That said, they have both been incredibly kind. They paid for my hotel stay. Tom was nervous about me staying at my brother's friend's apartment. I was mostly afraid of the roaches. They are texting me as I write this, sending florist options and talking excitedly about our wedding.

57:05Overall, I am okay, but I am terrified of the unknown. How is Tom doing? He's very anxious being away from me and incredibly grateful to my brother. He wants me to block my mom's number, but I'm not ready. He encouraged me to make an appointment with my therapist, and we are hoping to attend a few sessions together. He has apologized endlessly and feels like he should have figured this out sooner, but it's not his fault. If we had known earlier, we might never have had the love we now share and I believe that love is worth it. This morning, his father warned him not to share this secret with anyone.

57:42Tom is nervous about how our grandparents would react if they found out. If anything else happens, I will update again. we are still reading all of the comments the encouragement especially from those who urged us to tell our parents gave us the strength to do the right thing even though i regret telling my mother i think it was better than lying and creating a long-term deception thank you all for the support feel free to ask any questions it genuinely helps us think through every angle wow i mean talk about originally an impossible situation then another impossible situation on top of that with the parents like god yeah what do you do the mother's reaction was abusive that was awful but then it's also the tragedy of like her life in general of like already being the black sheep in the family like i i know that the twin dynamic can either go like so well and they're best friends and like everything's amazing or it's the opposite of like always comparing yourselves and sort of them they're being like the golden one and then the one who kind of feels like they never measure up and then she gets married and then he dies and then her daughter also chooses the other family over her and then like that family has the perfect reaction and they're so supportive and they're so wonderful while she's like you know throwing things and it's just it's very tragic it is all around I know and I think what's interesting here is that their tone shifted kind of the minute they found out the mom's reaction, which I get.

59:21Like, that's horrible. That was abusive. We're going to support you. But it almost feels... They're once again positing themselves as like the perfect family. Yeah. And the only problems that happened between them was because she was such a mess. she unraveled emotionally yeah to me I'm like there's so much going on here that it's like it's hard to like pick out what you even focus on with this one yeah but that does kind of ring bells for me because I'm like why are you trying so hard like you just found out your first cousins and yet you're still sending her florist options yeah like why are you trying that hard moving on very quickly why are you being so supportive it it almost makes me feel like something else is up here.

1:00:07And I do think there's a lot more to the mom's side. Like, I genuinely don't think someone runs away at 17 from a loving home. Right. Like, there probably was a lot to, like, you were the golden child, she was the black sheep, and she left. And there's a comment here that OP responds to. And someone is like, odd man out here, but your mom's past behaviors, decisions and reactions are very reminiscent of SA from a family member. And so like people are really diving into this to just be like, no guarantees, like not saying that is what happened, but like there's alarm bells on both sides. I agree.

1:00:46I think there's something about the almost like too perfect reaction. I just something's off. The too perfect family. And a lot of the time, like victims are the ones who seem crazy and awful and unlikable because they're the ones whose lives were affected. Whereas like the perpetrator is usually fine. Like they're not facing the effects of abuse. And so, yeah, victims aren't likable. And that's why like the very charming like perpetrator always seems to like get away with it in situations. And I'm not saying that that's what happened here. Obviously, we're kind of like taking leaps to get here.

1:01:24But again, like you said, the immediate switch up of like, oh, she's reacting like that. Like if she had had the perfect reaction and been like, oh, I'm accepting, like, this is fine. I'm going to support you no matter what. Would then they have done an opposite to that? Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. It's almost like one more win against her that now they get her daughter. And that's like. A boon. I don't know if we're off base here. It's just. Yeah, I definitely like the reaction is insane. It wasn't OK, but I completely understand it at the same time. Like I'm putting myself in the position of like my family life and my home life was so bad that at 17, I left everyone and everything I knew.

1:02:08Right. To just move away and start a life on my own. Like, yeah, that is extremely hard. And I would imagine things were horrible. And it sounds like the other family, like they're very well off. Like she didn't gain anything by running away from them. She could have had the financial support. Like she can't afford to pay for the wedding. And then like hearing that from the daughter of like, oh, well, then maybe you just shouldn't come. You don't come to the wedding. They'll be at the wedding with me. Like that's nightmare. Like that's crazy. I am just perplexed. I know. And again, like, it's so much easier, I think, to have opinions on these first cousins getting married as people who aren't in the situation.

1:02:52Obviously, like, being actually in that situation is so much more difficult than it is to have an opinion on the Internet or on a podcast. So, like, I can't really, like, judge them for that. I know. It's just like, oh, this is tough. It is. it's so so challenging and like Justin and I we've had a story where like he's been the one sitting across from me reading similar vibes and like I think we've even kind of talked about like what would we do today if we found out yeah we were related like what would we do yeah and for us like it wouldn't change anything like pursue other means of having kids yeah but like we're in so deep right now that like yeah it wouldn't change anything and that's kind of where they're at I don't know how to proceed forward with mom like I I think if she continues to be very aggressive and abusive like I do think you have to go low contact if not no contact but I would really try to have an honest conversation with her and be like can you please tell me your side Like, why did you leave?

1:04:04What happened? Because I like I want to understand why your reaction was what it was. Like, I didn't feel good about that. Like you threw a bottle at me. That wasn't OK. I just want to understand where you're coming from and try to like hear her out. I mean, yeah, there's some dark shit here. Something's off. Something is off. I don't know what it is, but something just feels off. And after that, after that conversation and giving her her time, and obviously it's a phone call, which is also probably safer and easier for you. But after that, then you can proceed forward. And I mean, you're like, OP is like steadfast.

1:04:48Like, I'm marrying Tom. I love Tom. Our love is worth it. And like, that's how you feel today. Then you have to proceed forward. And that is what it is. a lot of people did comment, make sure marriage to your first cousin is legal in the state you're in. OP did respond, it is legal in their state, not the state Tom is from. Wow. They never planned on living there anyways, so no issue. But like, that is another consideration of like, there are so many more levels to like, can I just emotionally get past this? Yeah. The one line that did kind of like throw me for a loop here is like, quote Tom is nervous about how our grandparents would react if they found out and that's where you're like my grandma is his grandma but we're getting married like that was the only line that was like but they're also not a lot of it is like that for me I'm gonna be on like it's really like it's a tough one and then even on top of that I feel like she will be committing to not having a relationship with her mother.

1:05:50I believe it once she marries Tom and is really integrated into his family, like that's sort of it. Like they'll probably discourage her making up with her mother. Like Tom already wants her to block her mom. Like I just don't know. Like not only is it weird for them that they're related, but she's also leaving that part of her life behind. I know. And I think a lot of people too would be like, well, you know, she did mention her mom is a functioning alcoholic and blah blah blah and it's like yeah I think like parents can be super unhealthy but like it also can still be hard to cut them off like that's not an easy thing she's doing and OP does provide another comment here kind of because people were asking like what's your mom like not really a loss like they were kind of implying like you're maybe better off just marrying Tom and not talking to her.

1:06:46And OP responded to someone as like, thank you. This comment's very kind. My mother is a functional alcoholic who cuts people off very quickly. She starts a lot of drama, but she has always loved me and provided for me. I was valedictorian of my high school class, and I honestly could not have done it without my mother, who did everything she could to secure me the best tutors and resources. That being said, I fear her reaction will be harsh. And as a single mother, I don't know. It's just hard because I can see how the mother ended up where she is today. And it's like after so much tragedy and it's like, at what point do we give up on people like that and just be like, well, you've become a part of the system of abuse, too.

1:07:32So, yeah, this is so fucking hard. Where do you guys fall on this one? Are you team, move forward, get married, just let everything land where it's going to land? Or are you kind of in the boat of like, yeah, this is going to be a big heartbreak, but it's probably best if you just go your separate ways and move on? I would put off the wedding. I would move it later. I think that's a good idea. Give it time to be like, okay, we think we feel this way. But if a few months pass and we're starting to be like, okay, this actually is weird or like I am feeling things You know, it's it's so soon to know how you're actually going to feel about it Very true.

1:08:19I would be like wait a year See how we feel over that year If we really do get past it and like the people that we love and our family around us like they also don't seem weird That's one thing but yeah Yeah, that's a really good point. And then it begs the question of like, are they getting married so young, so shortly after college for religious reasons? Obviously, they were waiting until marriage. They've hooked up maybe once or twice, like kind of by the sounds of this. Very religious, conservative family, like don't live together, no sex. Have you been intimate? So there's kind of that context playing there.

1:08:56And the mom being like, I'm going to take your phone away. I'm not going to let you go back to school. This was very, there were like some comments where this really felt like young people. Yeah. And OP even says like, my mom is very conservative as well. Like Tom's family is very conservative. So there are some comments from OP kind of alluding to that. But I guess like that is interesting because it's like, okay, we've waited this long, hold off sex for a few more months, see if you guys can, you know, be okay with this. But at the same time, you do get married. You do start having sex. That's when you start having a problem of like, this is when it gets hard for us is the intimacy side of it.

1:09:34Yeah. Because we know we're cousins now. And Tom will need to get a vasectomy. OP does say we are firm on like going the adoption route. Like we're good. It's good that they've like tackled that conversation already. Yeah. A lot of comments from OP, you guys. I've really gotten into most of them, but God, I know. What a doozy. What a doozy. I can't believe it. I will say the comments on the best of Redditor update were like talking about how the roaches were like their favorite part of it. Like I was mostly afraid of the roaches. Yeah. And then they go, I really for just a second thought, oh, that's nice that the roaches are so involved in the wedding planning and someone replies and goes haha ogtha has nice and thoughtful relatives and then someone goes ogtha mentioned who's ogtha i have no idea who ogtha is but original no no so this is apparently some reddit lore oh we might be taking a little bit of a detour here and learning about Ogtha because I think you're going to love it.

1:10:49I think you're going to love it. Is there any chance I could pee really fast? Oh, we are totally taking a pee break because I'm going to pee my pants. I've had so many drinks. When we continue, Ogtha. Upon further review, Ogtha is definitely good, but it is a little long. Oh, it's a story. It's another Reddit post. Oh, okay. It's Ogtha, O-G-T-H-A, Ogtha, Ogtha. I mean, if you literally Google Ogtha, the Reddit post about it is coming up. I can't believe this has never come up before. Yeah, I've never heard this story. There's not really a pronunciation for it that I'm seeing, so I have no freaking idea.

1:11:37but because it is a bit longer I'm gonna read two more shortish ones and then we will circle back we're gonna get into that because I feel like it'd be by the looks of it a good one to kind of cap us off wow I'm excited based on the title I think you're gonna love it I think you're gonna And I was immediately like, yes, I need to see it. And I'm not even a horror, like scary movie film girl. Like everyone knows that. But this has Rachel McAdams in it. Wait, okay. Yeah. I saw this trailer. Okay, doesn't it look insane? I was very confused at first because I thought it was going to be like a classic workplace, you know, drama.

1:12:30And then I was like, oh, it looks so, so, so good. Yeah. I literally you guys go watch the trailer for this movie. It's called Send Help. And it is just so good. And Rachel McAdams looks amazing. It looks like she's going to get so into this role. And like she's just such a good actress. And I'm pretty sure like Dylan O 'Brien is in it, too. oh yes yes i was confusing him in my head i thought it was one of the franco brothers but no i think it is still no brian yeah dylan o 'brien's in it um it's just it looks so so so good so this next story is actually brought to you by 20th century studios oh my god hey guys so it's from sam ramey director of the evil dead and drag me to hell comes the new film send help It's about Linda Little, an overworked and overlooked employee who ends up stranded on a deserted island with her absolute nightmare of a boss.

1:13:33So this next one, we're getting into a work story. I hear you guys. You've wanted more work stories. We're going to see what a nightmare work situation looks like in the Reddit world right now. Yay. Yeah. Okay, so this one is coming from AITAH. It's two months old. Someone actually sent it to me on Instagram, which I really appreciate because it's a good one. It is titled, Someone at work stole my chair, so I had them arrested. Oh. I got a new job in sales working for a company that sells access control systems, CCTV systems, etc. The chair in my cubicle was uncomfortable as fuck, so I day three brought in my own Herman Miller Aeron chair.

1:14:20On day four, it was missing. I looked around and another sales rep was sitting in it. I asked for a back, but he basically told me to fuck off. I went and spoke to the owner of the company. He told me that the chairs aren't reserved. They are first come first serve. I explained that I own the chair and it cost me$1 ,800. dollars. Oh my god. He told me that I need to come in earlier if I want that chair. I'm taking it home then. The owner of the company is telling you also go fuck yourself. The next day the same guy was sitting in it when I got to the office. I told him to give it back or I was going to call the cops.

1:15:03He refused so I called the cops. It was quite the scene but in the end, he admitted that he took my$1 ,800 chair. I was prepared. I had the receipt, which showed the serial number. Wow. Yes, Aeron chairs have serial numbers. They asked me if I wanted to press charges. My new boss said I would be terminated if I had him arrested. So I said, absolutely i want to press charges my new boss fired me on the spot oh so i carried my chair out with me as i was leaving and yes the cops arrested the dude who took my chair he admitted to it the dude who took my chair has been in the industry for about 15 years but he's going to lose his security license which means he won't be able to work in the industry he's going to lose his job I don't give a shit.

1:16:00He shouldn't have stolen my chair. Am I the asshole for making this dude lose his job? They had me. Then they lost me. You had me in the first half. Obviously, this wasn't like these people sucked. And initially calling the cops, I was like, you know what? Sure. I'm on some petty shit today. Like, well, I don't know, actually. But like you tried everything else. I do feel like after he admitted to stealing the chair, there maybe could have been some like middle step before pressing charges of like coming to some kind of agreement. But I don't, I don't know. I think, I think they maybe took it too far.

1:16:43I probably would have just taken the chair home or gotten it engraved with my name or something, or like taken it to HR or Or I think they did overreact. Oh, this escalated quickly. For fun, I want to be like, yeah, ha ha, like I'm on your side, get crazy with it. But in real life, I do think, I think that's a bit much. Also, like, I understand the chair sucked. You wanted to bring your own chair in,$1 ,800 chair. Like, if it wasn't that guy stealing it, like, who's to say that someone wouldn't have stolen it and taken it home and out of the building? Like, it's a risk. okay he shouldn't have taken your chair the boss not a good boss nightmare of a boss not having your back and going up to him and being like hey John you know so and so brought that chair in take any other chair bad boss but to call the cops have him arrested lose his security clearance I think you went too far now you've kind of become the nightmare power tripping person I agree.

1:17:52I was like, at first with the title, I was like, okay, this is definitely overreacting. Then they were telling the story. I was like, you know what? I'm on their side. Then it got to the end and I was like, nope, I'm off again. That's like, it's too much, too far. It's too much. I feel like there has to be a better way of dealing with the assholes. And like my petty response to that would honestly just be taking the chair back home. It wouldn't be like, okay, I'm going to lose my job. You're going to lose your job. Like you're also maybe gonna go to jail the police are involved like that's it's too much drama for a chair these people are assholes but at what point do you also drop lower than their level you know I know this is a I feel like this is gonna be another divisive divisive yeah one where people are like I don't know because the boss horrible but again like you kind of were so aggressive and like Yeah, I don't think we should be calling the police on people so willy-nilly in this world that we're living in.

1:18:58I don't know. It is weird. There must have been other ways of making your point. Honestly, get a leash on it. Yeah. Like, do you remember in— Like a bike lock or something? Now, them overreacting doesn't negate the other two being assholes. No. No. Definitely not. Like, let's be clear about that. Like, going to your boss and being like, hey, the chairs here are really uncomfortable. I've got back issues. Yeah. I want to bring my own chair, but I don't want anyone else to steal it. I spent a lot of money on this. Is there a way that we can make this work? Or you get more comfortable chairs for the office.

1:19:34I know. This person kind of is a diva, though, like needing an$1 ,800 chair. Top comment says this. Due to lower back issues, I always provided my own desk chair and made sure it was clearly marked that it was my personal property. I also used a bicycle cable to secure my chair to my desk at the end of the day. One coworker had his chair disappear. So he sent an email to the entire global company address book. It was hysterically funny to read the response emails. Wait, is this a thing? Like, please let us know if stealing chairs at the office and bringing your own chair and then that chair getting stolen.

1:20:11Let us know if that's a thing. I know about the food. I know that bringing your own food and putting that in the company fridge and that getting stolen is a big thing. That's huge. But let me know about the chairs. That's huge. Someone, I think it is because someone else responds. I worked in a call center years ago and had a coworker who crazy glued a big old sign with large letters. Blank's chair. Do not touch. It worked. No one touched her chair. Right, because then you're the asshole in a chair with a big ass sign on the back that says so-and-so's chair. Oh, I'd literally get one of those like license plates with my name on it and like zip tie it.

1:20:44Screw it in there. Screw it in there. Like I would be aggressively making sure that people knew that this was my chair. And that would be petty, but it wouldn't be getting someone fired and calling the police on them. It feels like an overreaction to me. But again, like the boss kind of instigated it where it was like, if you have him arrested, you're fired. And then I feel like OP has one of those personalities that's like very like. You go low, I go lower. Yeah. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, a little bit. clearly this is a story of nightmare fuel but a deserted island has to be worse directed by sam ramey send help is the ultimate work trip from hell it's a real killer only in theaters and 3d january 30th oh wow i didn't realize it was coming out so soon shall we go yeah it's got to have the little footstools yeah little recliner is it weird if i bring my own blankie no i always do and i wear fuzzy socks too.

1:21:43Okay. I just need something to cover my eyes during the scary part. I just want to see Rachel McAdams. Okay. Moving on to this next one. This episode is brought to you by Cash App. I myself have fallen for a scam. Thought I was getting a really good deal on tickets and bam, I sent the money and I didn't get my tickets. There's so many common scams these days and finding all the red flags can be hard. That is where Cash App comes in. Keeping your money safe from fraud deserves to be a priority, and Cash App treats it that way. With security lock, Cash App requires a successful face ID or biometric authentication to access your account.

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1:23:34Fast shipping, easy returns. It just makes everything easier. That's revolve.com slash THT. You can shop our faves and get 15 % off your first order. Offer available for a limited time, so don't miss out. Do we want one more work one? Yeah. Keep on a little work train here. I feel like we don't do that many work ones. I know, and people have been asking for them. So I feel like this is a good one. And the title really intrigued me. I haven't read it at all. But the title, I was like, I think it's going to be good. Yeah. So this is coming from our friend, DirectCaterpillar77, posting it. God, every time he puts together a story, it's magic.

1:24:16I know. Again, and then you see DirectCaterpillar77, you're like, okay, that, like, it's going to be good. So this one is titled, My Coworker Told Everyone We're Married. We're Not Even Dating. oh no scary you're in danger girl last year i left on a leave of absence for a few months to take care of my elderly parents then i returned to work apparently during that time one of my co-workers began telling people we were married not as in work wife as in legally married and everyone believed him honestly i had no idea he had any feelings for me and i don't think he knew I would be coming back. I'm an introvert.

1:24:59I keep my personal life private and don't talk much about myself. But the fact is, I have a husband, not him, who I've been married to for 10 years. 10 years. 10 years. Not wanting to cause him embarrassment, I privately went to our boss, explained the situation behind closed doors, and asked for a department transfer. Even though he's never sexually harassed me or made a move on me. I'm very uncomfortable being around him right now and don't want any contact with him. My boss agreed, said she would speak to him, and though she didn't have the authority to move me to another department, she would see to it that we wouldn't be put on a team together and kindly offered to adjust the schedule so he wouldn't be in the office at times when I was there.

1:25:46I've tried to handle this whole mess as discreetly as I can, but today I lost it. He walked into the break room while I was in there and I basically yelled at him in front of everyone there saying I'm not his wife and to stop telling people we're married. I know this was not the most mature way to handle the situation, but I was at my wits end. What do I do? So this is originally getting posted on Ask a Manager. Okay. And Ask a Manager is like that blog with Allison. She is like the all being managerial woman. She knows all HR expert. I don't think she overreacted at all. He's publicly saying this to whoever like a creep.

1:26:30She's trying to like privately handle it. She's offering to change departments herself. Not even like he has to leave or he has to change departments like this very much is not an overreaction I would also snap and it causes confusion for your relationship it's also like it's weird potentially scary is it because he's obsessed with her is it coming from like that type of place is he just trying to seem cool like what you don't know and it's scary not knowing very either way it's like why am I like what's your fixation with me why me yeah you don't know me why he's not even getting fired like I don't even think him getting fired for that would be an overreaction.

1:27:11A lot of companies have like policies about working with your spouse or someone you're dating. So what if this impacted OP negatively at work because of that? Yeah. Like it's just, it's not okay. So Allison actually asked our writer, what did the coworker do when he was getting yelled at? And the writer responds, I think he was in shock because he said nothing, but immediately left the room. However, there was definitely a palpable tension between me and my colleagues who had witnessed the whole thing. As I said before, I didn't want to cause a scene or embarrass him publicly. Unfortunately, I was in the moment and I let my emotions get the best of me.

1:27:54I fear there can be no good resolution to the situation. Either I've just exposed him as a liar to my coworkers or they think I'm the one line since he'd apparently been telling people we were married for quite some time. Oh, that's scary. Since I can't transfer departments, I'm entertaining the idea of putting in my two weeks, but I'm still emotionally reeling from what happened and I don't want to do anything impulsive or make the situation worse. Yeah, no. The fact that he's been saying this for a long time. At first, when I heard this story, I thought it was she left the company or something.

1:28:29And so he thought he was in the clear to be like oh and by the way like you know my girlfriend goes to another school type thing but it sounds like he's been planting this seed for a long time and that's just like a very scary personality like to just confidently lie to people about being in a relationship with someone who works with them like say you're in a relationship with a completely made-up person that no one knows if you're gonna lie about dating someone I know I do feel like more conversations have to be had to like get to the bottom of why where this is coming from yeah because like what is the root of this like we've had people lie in the past that their sister was their girlfriend right I think I think that's what it was because their sister like everyone thought she was hot at work and so the op wanted to look cooler in front of everyone yeah weird weird like all weird yeah I don't know but Yeah, what is the core reason here?

1:29:32So there are comments on the Ask a Manager blog. Someone goes, speechless, jaw gaping. Next one, me too. I can't imagine what would possess someone, co-worker, to do such a thing. Even more so, I can't imagine how co-worker thought this would pan out. Seriously, how did he expect her to react? OP, I'm angry for you. By the way, you did nothing wrong. Even the blow up was, in my opinion, legitimately called for. And OP does respond. Yes. In the comments. I am OP, and thank you all for your reassuring and empathetic responses. I like to assume the best in people, that maybe he just had a crush that spun out of control, or as one of you had said, perhaps he has low self-esteem and wanted to prove he was likable or normal.

1:30:20That's why I felt badly about handling it the way I did, though I know he is the one at fault here. That said, we are both in our 40s, and so I feel someone that age, theoretically, should have outgrown that high school insecurities type behavior. I've been able to avoid him since the incident without feeling too much like I'm walking on eggshells. And my boss, with my permission, also informed her boss, and they've both been very supportive. Supportive, but he's still in the same department as her? Yes. Right. And we get an update that comes eight months later. Wow. Mm-hmm. Wow. I didn't expect my question would even be published, let alone receive so many supportive comments from the Ask a Manager community.

1:31:13I only wish my bosses and co-workers could have been that understanding. Oh, God. About a month after the break room scene, I still felt like I was walking on eggshells to avoid my husband. And I noticed the attitudes from my manager and coworkers changing for the worse. And I could have told you this might happen. Immediately, she's like seen as the bitch in this situation. What? Yeah. How? Yeah. How? I would have brought in a big ass fucking picture of me and my husband and put it on my desk. Multiple pictures. I would have been like, no, this dude is crazy. How did this get flipped on her? because that's how it works in this world.

1:32:02I ended up leaving for a similar job that pays better and is just a healthier environment overall. I hate how we call everything and everyone toxic nowadays, but that truly was a toxic environment in retrospect. And the lack of support from management and HR was finally the big red flag that sent me packing. Some of the commenters mentioned stalking and safety because the man seemed a bit obsessed. While I've seen the guy a few times around town, there hasn't been any interaction between us, and I don't think he or any of my former co-workers know where I work now. Nobody's attempted to contact me, and I can breathe easier.

1:32:42I wish everyone at my old job well. I hope they can learn from this situation, and I thank everyone who commented for their encouragement. Yeah. What the heck? I know a girl and like just to speak to this being a very plausible situation. I know a girl who was just last week on her close friends posting about how she'd found out that multiple guys in her area had been like lying to people that they'd slept together, that they dated and just how like violating it feels to have people like talk about having an intimate relationship with you when you haven't as like a form of bragging and it's like the reality of it is so much more violating than it just sounds in a story like that it's horrible especially when you like find out about the intimate details of what got said like this happened to me in high school and I didn't find out until I was in college that this ex-boyfriend was spreading all these rumors and it's just like it's it's it feels like worms crawling on your skin like it's just it's so icky to be like horrible used like that it's horrible i don't know as like a prop to somebody else's story and that honestly that's like the the best case scenario for him is that he was just doing that to brag and seem cooler because him being like obsessed with her in this scary stalker way is even worse so there's really like no situation here where he's just this like good faith like sweet guy who made a mistake I mean he'd been spreading that for a long time and using her to like prop himself up in that story and then even when this all came out he didn't do the right thing and be like I'm so sorry that was weird of me I had a crush on you or whatever and I and I accidentally said it once and then the lie got out of hand like he should have come forward and apologized switched departments left the company whatever when that happened but instead this like got turned on her for like embarrassing him and like well he's been doing that to her I also just I still don't understand the lie.

1:34:52Why not say, oh, we're dating? Yeah. Like, why did you jump to marriage? And I do think it's kind of weird. She's seen him around town a few times, like, unless it's a really small town. True. Yeah. That is still kind of weird to me. And again, a bad boss. What is up with these bad bosses? And I already was like, when she said they were being supportive, I was like, how supportive are they really being if they're saying you could switch departments and like change your life because of this lie about you and like nothing's actually being done about him like how supportive are they really being and like I am curious more so the HR perspective on this yeah so Allison's response was don't quit your job you were in the right he was in the wrong it's understandable that you lost it ideally of course you would never lose your cool at work or cause the scene, but he's the one who did something wrong here.

1:35:48He should be exposed as a liar. And what the hell is wrong with your coworker doing something like this? Yeah. Why is he allowed to publicly say that about her, but she can't publicly respond to it and be honest? Like he's allowed to publicly lie about her, but she's not allowed to publicly be honest about him. The post goes on to say, I think you'll feel much better if you go and talk to your coworkers who were there, say something like, I want to apologize for losing my cool in the break room. When I returned from my leave of absence dealing with a family issue, I found out that Derek has been telling people we are married.

1:36:17We've never had any involvement at all. So this was really bizarre. It feels violating. I'm at my wit's end. And then I'm curious what the response to the update was. Yeah. In my dream world, they would have had like a face-to-face showdown where he would have said exactly why he did this. Yeah. But it sounds like what they're saying as she confronted him and then we kind of don't really get the information of what happened after that before she left the job well and the thing is allison usually like will point to hr rules or like oh that's a harassment that's a blah blah blah like you should go to hr but it doesn't even seem like anything was pointed out there was no update response from allison in regards to op's update so it's kind of like there wasn't maybe even legally anything that could be done it's like oh that's an office rumor he's not sexually harassing you it is what it is sorry yeah because it's such a like what falls under that category this is such a unique situation it's probably not written out in the rule book so that's so crazy ah bad boss i just like shitty job but honestly worked out for the batter here like yeah op left a toxic work environment went to a similar job is getting paid more.

1:37:39So unfortunate stress that they had to deal with. Not their fault, but worked out for the better. Yeah. I mean, that's a unique one. That's a different office rumor because he had to like at least be a little stressed that he'd be confronted with the truth of it. If they're in the same department and like he's been spreading this for a long time, How did he feel so comfortable lying like that? Cockiness. Yeah. Audacity. Did he just think she was so nice that she wouldn't say anything? Or he would just brush it off like, you guys, sorry about that. She really doesn't want anyone at work to know we're married.

1:38:17Sorry. Wow. She's just a little crazy today. That's diabolical. Sorry, guys. I'd be like, here's my lock screen photo of me with my real husband. Here are our wedding pictures. Dude, I would have immediately brought in like pictures of me and my husband. I would have gone to Office Max. just like around your desk blown them up yeah i would have made a poster of it like our wedding day picture like i don't know yeah like i would have been like i think in my response sometimes i can be a little passive aggressive versus having hard conversations and that is where i would have been a little more aggressive passive aggressive aggressive yeah print out the pictures put them up everywhere my husband my husband not jeff my husband not that guy like i don't know i mean that response would have probably worked for her though because then she wouldn't have seemed crazy to all these people not that she was crazy that's just like unfortunately how people spin things sometimes i wonder what the workplace like rumor mill said after yeah i know because now he gets full kind of control over the narrative the way it goes but also what if he wanted to date what if a new co-worker gets hired and what if he was interested in him yeah like you're screwed now you're married.

1:39:28Why would you do this? For 10 years too. Like it's not even like a secret that she's married or it's like a new thing that she's in a relationship with someone else. A decade, decade long marriage. I am very curious about office rumors in general now. Like if there are any other stories that people have about like a really weird rumor about them that was spread in the office or like one that's been going around or if like one of their co-workers confronted a different co-worker about something yeah I would love to hear that I've got I've got a theme coming up I think like you guys still want a work theme right I know someone said work someone messaged me and they're like can you not safe for work do that one so yeah work stories but not safe for work um and then someone is like can you do like a school teacher oh I like that too because I do like classroom classroom drama?

1:40:22College like yeah. It would be even also less crazy if it was like two college students and the guy was spreading rumors in his lecture like oh yeah I'm dating her. But that would still be crazy. But like doing it in a professional like work environment about someone in your department. No. It's so weird. The audacity. And it works for him. So no wonder. Insane. I do have one more work story that is going to go on. The first bonus episode for January. Wow. Also has to do with a picture. Am I wrong for not removing a photo from my desk after my coworker made it weird? Oh my God. You can't leave us hanging like that.

1:41:01The workplace tea is starting to pipe. And everyone's back at work after the holidays too. I know. It's good timing. I know. So if you have any personal work drama you want our takes on, go over to the 2HotTakes subreddit, post it there, and I will make sure we get a good work theme together for February. It'll be good. It'll be good. This episode is brought to you by Nintendo. Everyone's version of Me Time is a little different. That's why the Nintendo Switch 2 system is so fun. With exclusive and Nintendo Switch compatible games like Mario Kart World, Animal Crossing New Horizons, Nintendo Switch 2 Edition, Tom Odachi Life, Live in the Dream, or Yoshi and the Mysterious Book, there's something for every vibe.

1:41:46And with upgraded hardware, play at home or on the go, whenever the mood hits. Learn more at Nintendo.com slash Nintendo Switch 2. Games and systems sold separately. Some Nintendo Switch games may not be supported or fully compatible with Nintendo Switch 2. Games rated E for everyone. This episode is brought to you by Chrysler. Life with kids is basically a never-ending series of plot twists. One minute, everyone's buckled in. The next, someone's dropped a snack, lost a shoe, or needs a bathroom break immediately. That's why the newly designed Chrysler Pacifica is built for real life. With thoughtful features like stow-and-go seating, hands-free sliding doors, and passenger seating up to eight, it helps keep everything moving.

1:42:29Because family life isn't about the perfect moments, is about making the most of any moment. Visit your local dealer or Chrysler.com to learn more and schedule a test drive today. Chrysler is a registered trademark of SCAUS LLC. But moving on to Ogtha. Oh my God. Okay. I'm so confused that like this hasn't even come up for you before. No. And I'm sure it has on like other Reddit pods. I mean, the original post is from 2014. Wow. So it's a little vintage. Let's get in the headspace of 2014. Remember the story you were on? It was the first episode I think you ever came on. Really bonded us as friends about the bug guy.

1:43:16Yes, that is immediately where I went with it. So we do appear to have another bug guy. This is perfect. I know. I'm gobsmacked at the perfection of this whole situation. I know. If you guys don't know, like this was one of my favorite stories. This was what, like four years ago? At least now. At least four years ago. At least. I went on two outtakes for the first time. We were at your dad's condo at the time on a couch, I think. Chilling. And there was this story about a guy who was method acting a Beatle part in a play. and we really tried to like find the play. I think someone eventually found the play and sent it.

1:44:01Yeah, the play was Metamorphosis. Right. And it was real. Just wait, you guys. We are coming a little bit full circle, but time traveling. So this is going to be good. Wow. Every four or five years. We need a bug. We need a bug every four years. Yeah, it's got to happen. So the post is titled, Today I fucked up by admitting to my girlfriend that I pretend she is a giant cockroach when we have sex. Wait, this is a fetish. This is like, sorry, okay. Ever since I was a teenager, I have had very intense fantasies about having sex with a giant roach. This is not that unusual, by the way. This is not that unusual.

1:44:47I hate to break it. No, literally on my old podcast with Matt, we had a story about a guy who was role-playing, like you pretend to be an ant, or no, you pretend to be a big human that's about to smash me and I'm a little ant and your really big foot is about to step on me. And I'm like, ah, I'm so small. Like, don't step on me. Like, this is a thing. I've heard it before.

1:45:06It started in ninth or 10th grade when we read The Metamorphosis by Franz Kafka. No. As I started to think more and more about the roach creature that the character had become, I started to imagine what it would be like if a woman turned into the roach instead. I found this idea very arousing. I would not be repulsed or frightened of her, as the characters in the story are. I would take care of her. Then my thoughts started to get sexual with the character. Eventually, I sort of dropped the bit about her having been a human woman first, and I kind of imagined this fictionalized roach species. They are giant roaches, the size of a person, and have complete intelligence.

1:45:51I kind of, over time, conjured up an imaginary friend of sorts. She was one of these roaches, and her name was Ogtha. I would fantasize about her often. Whenever I masturbated, I'd be imagining elaborate scenarios of me and Ogtha making love. It's not even a sexy name. When I started to have actual sex, I found I could not perform if I wasn't thinking of Ogtha. So basically now, every time I have sex with a woman, I'm pretending that she is actually Ogtha. Not just think about Ogtha. I concentrate intently to visualize that I actually am doing Ogtha. Doing Ogtha? I don't want to think about the girl at all.

1:46:43there is only ogtha oh wait like romantic of course this sex can never be as exciting as my fully imaginary sessions with ogtha there are things that her multiple appendages and antennae allow for that a human woman could never match so anyways i've been in a relationship with my girlfriend for about a year three or four times i've tried to have sex with her and not pretend she is Ogtha, but I just can't do it. And every other time he's imagined Ogtha. Okay, awesome. So essentially, every time we have sex, I'm imagining she is Ogtha. I finally confided this to her the other day, and I was blown away by her reaction.

1:47:30I thought she might take it a bit badly at first, but that she'd get used to it. No, I have never seen such a look of disgust before. Outraged is not an understatement. She is not even returning my texts now. Shocking. I'm afraid that she's actually going to break up with me, and also that is going to tell people about Ogtha. I don't know how I will face anyone. This is going to sound silly, but I also feel guilty about feeling shame, as if Ogtha will be saddened by this, even though I know she is imaginary. I just don't know what to do at this point. Can I tell you like once again I'm warring with myself about this story?

1:48:20On one hand I think it's the romance of the century. Like I think that I think that like OP and Okta should have a movie. Like there should like he he cannot this is the most faithful a man has ever been to anybody in the history of the world. Can't imagine being with anybody other than Okta? Like, Okta is all you dream about, all you think about. This is like, this is like the greatest love there's ever been. At the same time, if I were the girlfriend in this situation. Oh, can you imagine hearing that? The fact that he's surprised, like a little bit, he's like, yeah, I feel like at first, of course, she'd be like a little upset, but I imagine she'd get over it.

1:49:03And then he's more worried about Okta's feelings than her feelings this is this is almost like the ai girlfriend trend of everything like dating chat gpt or whatever is going on where it's like there's this idealized woman who doesn't talk back to you and only like ever does what you want and says what you want her to say except in this version it's is it a cockroach it's a cockroach cockroach and i can't believe i can't believe that this goes back. He should date the actor who's method acting as the roach for metamorphosis. Yeah. They could both find happiness with one another. See, I do think there's someone out there for him.

1:49:50Right. I do think he needs to be a little bit more upfront with his fetishes versus is like I would be so distraught and grossed out if my partner told me every time we have sex I envision you're a roach yeah I mean a roach is especially bad but if they said that about anything and your antenna I envision you as anything else no every time I have sex with you I envision you envision you in any other way I would be like that's hurtful yeah it's like really weird and hurtful and like oh you don't actually want me and he also said that you just want it never lives to plug and pretend is a roach yeah and he said it's never as good with her as it is when he can imagine ogs ogs ogs by himself it's just you only have two hands though that's the thing like how are you imagining all of these well you've got a lot of fingers appendages an antenna antenna antenna maybe he brings in props maybe there's prop play I think he has to yeah that's true if I'm getting really serious I do think he needs to get help this is like a detrimental he's Pavlov'd a bit too hard and I think I don't know if we talked about this before with fetishes of like I I think it can become a problem and you need to talk about it with your partners very early if there's no other way for you to have sex.

1:51:16Like it's one thing to be like lightly interested in something and like, oh yeah, I like this or I like that. But if you cannot have sex unless you imagine them as this roach Ogtha, you've got to go to Reddit. You've got to go to forums. You've got to find someone out there who's also got that same fetish or you need to get help because there's no other way forward. I think a qualified therapist is a non-negotiable. But yeah I would say like if you're gonna start dating again maybe go to bug groups and go to like sure like the zoo and observe the bugs and maybe you'll find your person someone else observing the bugs that's into the bugs and wants to be a bug and I don't know a bug's life could be for someone but it ain't for that girl I was gonna say a bug's life has gone triple platinum in his house ants the movie triple platinum in his house well I'll tell you what Michaela okay we get an update Of course, yeah.

1:52:05Of course, because it wasn't enough. That perfect story wasn't enough. There's got to be more. An update comes six years later. 2020. This was around the time that we read the play. So first post was October 3rd, 2014. Second post is May 16th, 2020. Oh my God. Like five and a half years later. Five years ago, I submitted the story of me telling my then-girlfriend that when we made love, I was envisioning her as a giant roach. You might think of a scene in Blade Runner 2049, which my original Today I Fucked Up predates, by the way, where the main character makes love to a prostitute, but his hologram girlfriend kind of holograms over the body of the actual person.

1:52:50Oh yeah, great scene. So he can pretend he's making love to his hologram. That is what it was like with me and Ogtha, but instead of a hologram, it was just my imagination. In the five years that have passed since this topic was posted, I decided to stop fooling myself, and I just committed to the love of Ogtha. I know she is not real per se, but in my head, she is an actual personality, and I am in love with that personality. I don't care if she is a roach or if she is imaginary. The love is real. Call me deluded, but it's harmless. It makes me happy. I have not had a real girlfriend again since that incident five years ago.

1:53:33But occasionally, I have had one-night stands via online apps with the understanding of it being one night in advance. And on these terms, I always envision the woman is Ogtha, my sensual roach queen. Now, I mean no offense to the women, of course. and even a gentleman once or twice. The many appendages of Ogtha make translation to human gender almost irrelevant. I just envision they are Ogtha. And no, haha, I've never confided to them about it. I learned my lesson. The thing about it, though, is that I became so in love with my Ogtha that I married her. I even did a little ceremony in my living room.

1:54:16I recited my own vows and she recited hers. I even went on a honeymoon, which technically you could say was a solo vacation to New Orleans for work. But in my mind, Ogtha was with me the entire time. In my mind, I think of her as my wife.

1:54:36Tears in my eyes. Beautiful. Now here is where I fucked up. I got so used to thinking of her as my wife in my head that a few months ago at work, I nonchalantly said my wife in some innocuous sentence. I think it was something like, oh yeah, me and my wife love that show in regards to Chopped. So now everyone was asking me about my wife because they'd never heard I was married or even dating anyone. So then he just said it was his coworker. And then, and then the, it's all connected. Everything is connected. Everyone kept pestering me Wanting to know about her Wanting to see pictures I became full of panic I did the only thing I swore I would never do again I talked to other people about Ogtha in real life My guy My guy My guy No even in this scenario you lie In this situation you lie Dude I can't even read this I'm so uncomfortable What happens next?

1:55:42Because right now I'm on board with him. I'm like, okay. We were at a team lunch and I just let it all spill out. I told them about how I became enamored as a teenager with the Franz Kafka story, how my fantasy evolved into an actual imaginary entity with a personality, and how I slowly began to grow in love with her. What started as a mere sexual attraction to giant roaches blossomed into a whirlwind romance and that she became the love of my life, even though her existence was in my own mind. At first, they thought I was doing a creepy joke, but I convinced them I was telling the truth. Well, they were afraid and disgusted.

1:56:27I have been a pariah at work ever since. Everybody steers clear of me. We used to have a good social life. Now people only speak to me for work-related reasons. Even working virtually now, nobody sends me a Slack message unless it is about work. I even heard a rumor that people went to HR, but they were, of course, told nothing could be done. I have lost my good work friends because of this, and it is indeed jeopardizing my career because my bosses think I am insane. I've ruined my friendships and future career prospects due to my honesty. I am thinking of starting to look for a new job, although it is difficult in the current environment.

1:57:09COVID. Oh, yeah. I can start fresh elsewhere, though. No matter what, I will be staying with my wife, Ogtha. For me, it is Ogtha forever. I mean, that's his girl and he's going to stand beside her. If you must know, I do hope that even if I am an old man, that one day the technology is invented to extract the Ogtha personality from my mind and implant it into a real external body, either of a genetically engineered or a mechanical nature, and me and Ogtha can experience genuine physical connection. But if she must remain within me, that is fine. Her love keeps me warm on the coldest of nights.

1:57:48Thank you. Like, fuck. Like it's beautiful. like it's beautiful like I mean this is I'm uncomfortable I'm I am deep I understand where his co-workers were at hearing this visually described yeah I'm impressed with his imagination right and his ability to sustain the sustainability of it all what I will say is like if you're I feel he did the right thing I think maybe the better thing would have been therapy But this is the second best thing, right? Because he can't keep lying to a girl he is dating and imagining Okta. No, his only option was to be single. If you can't move beyond Okta. Well, he's not single.

1:58:34He's married. Got that down. No. And I want to just say that I have to believe, and I'm so sorry, but someone listening to this podcast has had a one-night stand and been imagined as Okta. just like numbers wise like someone listening right now I do believe either you or someone you know has had a one night stand with the guy who's picturing you as his beetle wife Like, dude, like, I just don't understand. Like, I would just, like, be so lonely. And I get he's not lonely. He has Okta. He's married. But, like, this guy feels like he's, like, taking some Bradley Cooper type magical brain pill that lets you open the other 90 % of your brain.

1:59:16And, like, he is going into another realm with his imagination and how vibrant Okta is. Or he's using less of his brain. It's hard to know for sure. I bet he is having a fielding. Or it's just genuine mental illness. Oh, what was I saying? I bet he's having a field day with generative AI right now. He is having a robot pretend to be Okva 100%. I could see him coming back. We're actually due for an update. It's five years. It's at that point. We're due for an update. Technology has come a long way. He probably doesn't have a physical Okva. But I mean, after 10 years. With the VR goggles and what you can now generate.

1:59:58True. There is VR porn. Right. And it is like, have you ever been in it? VR porn? Yeah. Have I been in VR? Have you been in VR porn? No, I haven't been in, I don't even watch regular porn. I've never been in VR porn. It's very real. I have a VR headset if you want to just like to just look. You don't have to do anything, but you can just look. I have my own feelings about that. I just wanted to look. But it's real people and they record it within a VR camera. and so it's like you look down that's between them i don't need to be there okay for research purposes i need someone else on this podcast to like just stick their head in it for one second i ha i also have my own imagination and that that works for me i don't need to be in the room i don't need to be in the room with them i'm like what am i doing here like they're having their fun it's just you are you are them like you are in the goggles you're them yeah yeah but I'm not though and I know that so it's like it's a little tough but okay so he could literally create right beetle porn I think so goggles I think so because I think we're at least at the point now but I also then wonder like okay and here imagine this scenario he creates a VR ogtha but she starts to like have some of her own thoughts and he falls out of love with her.

2:01:25I think that would be the ideal situation. I almost think that is what happened. I think there's so much of this is just the fact that he gets to project. I mean, there's the sexual component, but then there's also this emotional component of like, I get to create whoever I want this to be, whatever I want her personality to be. And if there were even a little bit of her thinking for herself. It'd be over. It'd be over. I hope. Because it wouldn't fit his like fantasy delusion. I would love a recent update from OP. We are now at that five year mark. It's kind of time. Right. We do have one more post from OP.

2:02:06Okay. That came after the co-worker thing. Around that same time or later? A third post titled Today I fucked up by telling my parents that I am married to an imaginary giant roach. I mean, it's about time you tell the parents, right? I love Ogtha and she loves me. Some time ago, I married her. Now, from a strictly legal sense, no, I am not married per se, but me and Ogtha, we consider our relationship to be marriage. I am devoted to her and her to me. I revealed this to my co-workers and it did not go well, but I thought my parents had a right to know. Last evening, I revealed to them everything about Ogtha and told them we were married.

2:02:43I even allowed Ogtha to speak through me to them so that she could finally meet my parents after only seeing them from afar. I knew my parents would find it unusual at first, but I thought they would come to understand and be happy for me. He keeps thinking that. He keeps thinking that it'll go that way for him. However, I fear they think me deranged. My mother actually cried and not tears of happiness as I expected. They even encouraged me to seek counseling. I explained to them what I am experiencing is real and encouraged them to read through the Tulpa Reddit. It has created a very bad situation for me, and now I fear my relationship with my parents is quite ruined.

2:03:25They keep insisting I seek counseling and are threatening that if I don't, they will no longer assist me with my student loans and will not welcome me at Thanksgiving. I feel they are overreacting. But at the same time, I wish I had just kept my marriage a secret. I do consider it now to be a fuck-up to have been truthful with my parents. They are in some ways traditionalists and are simply not ready to understand how entities can exist without physical form and share a mind. It breaks my heart, but I wish I had been deceitful with my family. For the record, I will never divorce Ogtha, and with our love, I know I can survive anything, but I wish I had never been truthful with my parents.

2:04:08I mean, he sounds delusional, but you have to put yourself in the mind of someone who's been with Ogtha for many years now. At least 10 years. At a certain point, you have to convince yourself it's not that crazy, right? Like you have to, in your mind, be like, no, this is semi-normal. Like other people surely, if they love me, they'd understand. I genuinely think OP is dealing with some mental health issues. I would be so curious because like with that, I was like, well, it seems like unless he tells people it's not really affecting his life. Like he went to school, got a degree, seems to have a job, seems to like not have any other addictions.

2:04:49That didn't last long. Right. So then it's like. Why did you start telling everyone? So then it's like, I wish I could hear from a third party because someone else might be like, no, he's a recluse. And like he doesn't have a social life because of it. and x what you know it's hard when you're hearing it from op's perspective you just envision op like talking to themselves but it's ogtha and it's just like yeah and ogtha speaking through him to his parents it's it's evolving as time goes on which is kind of scary like how much it's escalated to like oh you had a normal life and you got a girlfriend and then you just kind of envisioned having sex with ogtha as you were having sex with your girlfriend but now it's like no like you are one entity and she talks through you and that's where I'm like oh no no no this is this is beyond I almost any imagination this could happen to anybody in like a way that anyone could probably like fall into a cult like I I could see the progression of like fixating on something and then it's slowly like taking over more and more of your life maybe not oak that specifically happened to anybody but like a delusion it's like you have to catch it early enough to cut it off before it's all consuming like if he'd gone to therapy about the beetle thing when he was in in high school yes he probably could have cut this off and had like a normal relationship it.

2:06:19I agree. But it's too late now. He'll never forget Okta. He will never divorce Okta. We need to see this play. We need to see Metamorphosis. I know. I like need to. Like the power of it is almost terrifying. I need to understand how it's captivating people so much. Like multiple people have been captivated by this this roach this beetle whatever it is. Wow um that was a detour I did not expect to take today. So glad we did. Are we though? Yeah. I don't know if I am, to be honest. I'm gonna have to think about that. I'm like ultimately not that bothered by it. I think if I were to get realistic about it, I'd be like, okay, there's something really off there.

2:07:07I need to like hear more stories about other weird fetishes, like that Ant one that you shared. like that intrigues me Joe Santagato like I think when he came on his initial episode way back when like he told me that he like talked to some lady that made like shit sushi like I need to like I can't get behind that I need to like hear other weirder stories that make this feel better the ant thing wasn't even us reading a random story it was a conversation Matt had with somebody asking him to role play as the ant or they were the ant so it's slightly different because they were the aunt in that scenario that's insane I've seen it a few times I've even had people in my dms be like sometimes I imagine that I'm really really tiny and I'm on the palm of your hand and then and then you slap me against a wall I've gotten that more than once not exactly that but like a tiny a tiny fetish please if you've experienced something goofy along these lines please put it in the comments you can go on youtube make a an anonymous account and just so tiny don't step on me just put it right there like i don't know you like to be tied up with dirty socks i don't i don't really care i just like i need that's probably not that bad i need something that's like on ogtha level that makes this feel better and i'm just genuinely curious what's out there now Yeah.

2:08:33I know there's like the leather pony fetish and people gallop around in a ball gag with a leather horse head on. I think what sets Okta apart is how like unique and one of one of a situation it is. Yeah. Because she is, you know, her own thing. Now I do wonder, maybe someone out there read that story and now they also love Okta. I don't know. She's very desirable. She knows how to hold down a man. we're done we're done okay y 'all love ya we're headed over to patreon i got jenna sitting behind the camera here ready to go thank you for joining us on another crazy episode of two hot takes i mean man it was banger after banger today um let me know what you want to see we've got some really good guests coming up soon i'm headed to new york i um just ran into joe at that pre-golden globe's party said hi said come on the pod so fingers crossed y 'all but um let me know who else you want to see if they're new york based and i'll see what i can do but on that note until next time bye bye

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