275: Imperfect People! Ft. Miles Bonsignore

27:30That's true. You know, what's funny is like this type of thing is so, it's so common on the internet for people to like develop outrage of like, this isn't it more. And it's like also like, I don't want to be purity, purity testing the ways that people do funny little things. I mean, it's like, ultimately are we all okay? Yeah, we're probably okay. I'm not seeing any comments from OP. Oh, wow. Did post this in a couple different places. Am I overreacting and AITA relationships? is that common where somebody will kind of rock a post across the board i've seen it yeah not that often but typically or if it gets removed from r slash relationships and they're like okay fine let me go try another sub because a lot of the subs will pull based on auto mods so if like if you don't have paragraph breaks pulled like there's a lot of rules when you're posting like even my sub like i'll get messages and they'll be like my post got removed why and it's like silly stuff like that yeah character limit or whatever yeah exactly so i'm not seeing anything else there's a post from them that came after this in r slash ask reddit why are women who watch lesbian porn not considered gay but men who watch gay porn are considered gay so this is the same guy this is the same guy so he's out there asking the big questions huh why are what was the question Why are women who watch lesbian porn not considered gay, but men who watch gay porn are considered gay?

29:06I guess, I don't know. Yeah. There's no fluidity being sort of mentioned there. Uh-uh. I don't know. I don't know that I would consider. Who are you talking to your porn preferences about? Yeah. Who are you being like? Yeah. That's a really good point. Like, who are you sharing this thing? That's a really good point. It's just like, keep it private. By the way, everyone can do whatever they want. I'm kind of team just like, you don't have to like, you know, decide on a label. Yeah. One day you want to watch whatever you want to watch. Follow your heart, kids. I'm just like, also, even if you're watching straight porn, you're still seeing dick.

29:42Yeah, right. Like, it's all. It's all out there. It's all out there. You know what I mean? It's all body parts getting wild. People are so weird. People, I think, also like to like specify a box. Like this is, yeah, this is, yeah, gay porn for gay people. This is lesbian porn for lesbians. It's kind of just like, I don't know. Everyone has a little bit of fluidity to them. Yeah, I know. I was talking to Nadine Baba when she came on about this and she's like, I hate a label. And I do, I see her point where it's like, it does feel nice to be able to be like, okay, well, I have ADHD and I'm autistic.

30:15So like, I understand myself a little better because of that label. But I think if you're just putting people in boxes and that's the only box, then I think that's where it's like, no, we don't love a label. Well, it's interesting. Like putting yourself in a box, I think for some people feels good. It feels like empowering if they haven't found the right box. But it can feel complicated when you're like, well, I fit in this box. So therefore other people need to fit in this box. And then it's like, oh, well, no, you shouldn't do that. Because then like you're popping other people maybe where they don't necessarily want to be.

30:47Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So no other comments from OP on this one. Only other comment I see that I kind of like is someone that says pranks should confuse, don't abuse. Yeah, that's fair. It's like you want somebody to be like, huh? But you don't want them to feel sad. Exactly. No. The poop. Yeah, this is something my wife would do. And it's really funny because I think that she has done something in this world where she was like, Miles, I can't do this because I like, yes, what did she do? It was some viral prank. and I smelled it immediately. It was not, I was like, I was literally like, I know that you're trying to like catch me on camera for some like TikTok or something.

31:28She was like, okay, fine. Like, you know. Was it the flower prank? What's that? So the one I've seen that I also kind of like, and everyone's going to be like, you hate pranks, Morgan. I'm like, I know. I talk so much shit about a prank. But this one was, couples would put a bowl on the counter and they'd put like flour in it and she'd be like, oh I can't pick this up it's so heavy like babe can you help me and she'd be like and then he'd come and be like what and he'd pick it up really fast and the flower would like hit him yeah it's funny and I'm like okay that's just flower it's fun it's not a big deal although again I think it's like if you're in a relationship you want to leave you'd be like come on I have work after this like you'd take it so personally that you would break up because you want to leave the relationship if i had like just gotten a fresh blowout and they knew it or if i i did my makeup and we're going to dinner and that's when that got pulled on me no i'd crash the fuck out 100 i would that's true because you're like ruining that person's positive vibe like oh i'm feeling so good about myself boom like that would be that would be brutal i'd get sent oh man so i don't know if you guys have any other good examples of pranks like happy healthy-ish pranks, please drop them in the comments.

32:46But moving on to this next one. This episode is brought to you by Credit Karma. Breathe in, now breathe out. You feel that? That's the calm of having Intuit Credit Karma in your corner. If you're trying to get your life together in this crazy world, Credit Karma is a great place to start with the money stuff. Your credit score isn't just a number. It can unlock better rates, more options, and real savings. So whether you're moving, leasing a car, or upgrading your cards, it feels good knowing your credit is working for you. When you start to feel like there's too much on your plate, you can count on Credit Karma for less craziness and more credit.

33:22Thanks to Credit Karma, I realized I missed some student loan payments. Thanks, Credit Karma. This next one, this is a juicy one. Buckle up. Buckled in. Buckle up. Story number three for us here, also coming from Am I Overreacting? It's a couple hours old when I found it. Oh, fresh. I'm scared to refresh just in case it disappears. It's titled, Am I Overreacting for Being Upset That My Fiance Proposed With His Late Wife's Engagement Ring? Oh, that's so interesting. I'm 30 female and my fiance is 33 male. We've been together for about four years. He was married before me and has an eight-year-old daughter from that marriage.

34:07For some background, he and his late wife were basically childhood sweethearts. They grew up together, their families were close, they went to the same college, got married young, and were together for several years before she unfortunately passed away while giving birth to their daughter. It was obviously devastating for everyone involved. And he ended up raising his daughter on his own until we met. I met him when his daughter was around four, and since then, we've built a life together. Overall, things have been good. I've always tried to respect the fact that he was widowed. I've never asked him to get rid of pictures, stop talking about her, or pretend like she didn't exist.

34:46She was an important part of his life and is an important part of his daughter's life, and I understand that. Last week, he proposed. I was honestly excited. We've been together for years, so I knew it was coming eventually. The proposal itself was sweet and the ring was beautiful. I said yes. We took pictures and posted them online. I posted a few on Facebook and he posted some on Instagram. A day later, his former sister-in-law, who is his daughter's aunt, messaged me and asked if the ring I was wearing was her sister's engagement ring. Oh my god, it's so uncomfortable. I told her I didn't think so.

35:30honestly it hadn't even crossed my mind. I figured there was no way he would propose to me with the same ring he had given his late wife. A couple of days later she got back to me after comparing old photos. Same setting, same diamond, same band, same everything. It was the exact same ring. No. At first I thought maybe she was mistaken so I asked my fiance directly. He admitted it. He told me that yes, it was the same ring, but he didn't see what the big deal was. He said it was a beautiful ring, it had sentimental value, and it didn't make sense to buy another ring when he already had one. I told him that wasn't really the point.

36:15I explained that I wasn't upset because I wanted a more expensive ring or some giant diamond. Honestly, if money was the issue, I would have been perfectly happy with a cheaper ring. What bothered me was that he gave me the exact same ring he proposed to his late wife with and never told me. I told him that if he wanted to reuse the diamond and have it reset into a different ring, I probably wouldn't have cared nearly as much, but handing me the exact same ring felt strange. Maybe this sounds irrational, but it made me feel like I was stepping into someone else's place instead of starting my own future with him.

36:52His response was that I was creating a problem where there wasn't one. At one point, I asked him if he planned on giving me her wedding ring too. His response was, probably, maybe. That honestly made me feel worse. I asked him why he never told me it was her ring before proposing. He said he didn't tell me because he knew I would react like this. To me, that made the situation even worse because it felt like he knew this might bother me and chose not to tell me anyways. We ended up arguing and I left the ring behind and went to stay with my mom for a few days. Since then, this has somehow turned into a family discussion involving my side of the family and his side of the family and even some of his late wife's family.

37:39My mom and sisters think my reaction is understandable. They all said the issue isn't the ring itself. The issue is that he reused such a personal item without discussing it with me first. His family feels differently. Some think I'm overreacting and being disrespectful to his late wife's memory. Others have said people pass jewelry down all the time and that a ring is just a ring. My fiance keeps saying that he loves me and isn't trying to replace anyone and that I'm just reading way too much into it. The thing is, I don't feel jealous of his late wife. I never have. What bothers me is that an engagement ring is supposed to represent our relationship.

38:19Instead, it feels like I'm wearing a symbol of theirs. I genuinely don't know if I'm making this into a bigger issue than it needs to be. So, am I overreacting? Oh, man. There's so much there. It's so juicy. Like, I don't even know where to begin. Yeah, where do you unpack this one? The first thing that my mind goes to is that he didn't tell her that it was the ring. And that is weird because it clearly meant so much to him. I almost feel like it should have been two separate events. The proposal, he gets down on one knee and he just holds her hand, no ring, says, will you marry me? Right? She goes like, oh my gosh, yes, absolutely.

39:02And then they have this warm moment. They would do whatever. And then he's like, so I wanted to ask you, I have this ring. It's obviously from my late wife. Would you accept it? I know it's very beautiful. And maybe how do you feel about that? And then she could have that conversation. It's weird that he didn't think it would be a big deal at all. Or do you think that he did think it and was trying to sneak it in? I think that, I don't know. His excuse is so weird where it's like, I already have the ring. Why would I get another one? It's like that ring was a symbol of your love for her. Yeah.

39:36And I think OP honestly sounds like the dream stepmom. like we have stepmom horror story after horror story on the show and this woman sounds like she's so in tune and self-aware and healthy and don't take pictures down talk about her as much as you want yeah like I get along with her family even like this is ideal and so for you to just not care enough or respect her and your relationship enough to get her her own ring I I'm kind of on her side where it's like, it does feel like you don't even see me, but you like the shoes I fill. Yeah. That's so interesting. I almost feel like they clearly want to get married.

40:21It's just as about the ring that is used. Right. Cause I, you know, like the shoes to fill, like I have, you know, had lots of tragedy in my life. And I kind of think that when there's tragedy, I've always wondered about the situation. Like what happens if you meet, I have a couple of friends who are like their loved one, you know, their partner passes away and then they go on to date other people. But it is sort of like that person always will be with them. Absolutely. You know? And so it's definitely an awkward situation because like he did have this whole life with this other woman and they had a kid together and all this stuff.

40:56And like, what a tragedy. In some ways you have to kind of have that be a part of your relationship because it is too big of his identity to not. You know? And you have to be comfortable with that. Like, that's who he is. You know, if you have a tragedy like that, it just is ingrained in you so much. Now, that doesn't mean that he can't communicate, hey, like, I have this ring and whatever, and be on his side. I feel like she's been super understanding. He has to now be understanding. Absolutely. I don't think it's relationship ending as long as he comes to terms with it and starts to see her side.

41:33Totally. But if he's gonna stick his foot and like this is the hill he's gonna die on. Why? Then, you know, and I'm like, okay, you know, he's in pain. This is probably a big step for him. There's a lot to unpack there. But at the same time, you're the one that proposed kind of signaling you're ready for it. She's not into the ring. Okay, get her a ring she's into and move forward. Be on the same page. Correct. I think it's like what they both need to do is have a conversation where they're like, look, I know this whole thing has kind of gotten out of hand. I don't know why her family is chiming in.

42:08That feels way too much. Like the late wives? The late wife's family. Yeah. I feel like I get that they might be sensitive about it, but I also am kind of like, this is not their thing. Their arena. I wonder in what way they're jumping in because my first thought when I read this, and I'm really weird about heirloom items. Oh yeah. Like I will go to bat for people getting their heirlooms. I'm like, this is what's important. Because in my head, I was kind of like, it's inappropriate to give her the ring. That should actually go to the daughter. That's also what I was thinking. I think that they should save that and then the daughter can inherit that.

42:45And it's like - A beautiful piece of her mom. Yeah, that feels way more appropriate. And then I was like pissed. I'm like, change the setting, melt it down. I'm like, you better fucking not. I'm like that again. Like it was inappropriate for him to even use that ring when you have a daughter. Even if you had a son, you give it to your son. propose with this ring. This is a piece of your mom. Like it's not necessarily, that's like where I was just like, Oh, I'm so mad. I'm just like, so if they're coming in and they're like, you know, that should go to, you know, your daughter, that should go to Lisa.

43:18Then I'm like, okay, I get why they're coming in trying to be Lisa's advocate. She's only eight. She's probably not even thinking about her engagement ring, but they might be, they're adults. They understand the full scope of this, but I am curious. I'll see if there's any comments from OP on that. Yeah, no, you're totally right though. Yeah, it's like, yeah, they might be chiming in just to be like, the ring should go to the daughter because that makes a ton of sense. Yeah. But I also think this is solved by maybe both of them taking a deep breath. This is solved like most arguments should be solved where you take a deep breath and you say, hey, I love you.

43:50I want to get married. Let's just find a new ring. And then that's kind of it. I don't think it needs to end the relationship. That feels like a waste, but I don't know. We don't have any comments from OP. No updates. The only one proving that this is a real person is there's an auto moderator on Am I Overreacting? And it says, in order to prevent spam and bot posts, this subreddit temporarily removes post until OP proves they're human. Please reply to this comment and answer the question. If you could have any superpower, what would you choose? OP responds and said, I would choose to teleport.

44:25That is all we have. They would teleport. And that's all we know. Yeah, I think this is, I guess maybe just a doofy, like the guy is being doofy. If he really is that unaware. There are people like this that are just totally like, well, I had a ring. So I don't know. Like that, I guess it's, yeah, it's just jewelry. Like maybe he's really that unsentimental. He'd be pretty thick to not really realize that. But maybe he is, you know, like. He could be. And that is a problem, but it's not the problem that she thinks is happening. No. And otherwise, relationship seems great. Like there's no mention of like there being other straws.

45:08Right. So if he can get on board like and kind of see and just move past this and not let his ego and pride and whatever else get in the way, then I think, you know, you'll be good moving forward. But in this moment, I don't think you're overreacting. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. this reminds me of you know Patton Oswalt the comedian yes his wife Michelle McNamara exactly she like literally solved the Golden State yes murders exactly and then she passed away very like unexpectedly and Patton Oswalt had a daughter and Patton Oswalt remarried to this woman and they made this post and it was basically about and I think he talked about on a podcast where he was like and she talked about it how she was like you know Michelle will always be a part of our family.

45:57Like, like I being like, like we have found love in this, but it's like, it was a really big consideration to be like, like, I know that you lost your wife and she's the mother to your child. And like, I am in no way replacing that. I am like here to support that as well. Cause how could you not? Like, how could, it's like, it would be too painful to try to wipe it away and be like, all right, we're a new happy family and not talk about this person, celebrate this person know that you're stepping into a family that has this tragedy as a part of it. You know, it's insane that a lot of people can't do that.

46:29Yeah. What's a hard, it's almost like the, what do you say? Right key, wrong hole. It's like in order to step into a family like that, you have to be the right person that's ready to accept it, which is a big, it's a big thing to accept. It is. It isn't like it isn't. I, yeah, that's true. I'm actually shocked and i feel like op putting this in there is because of how often this comes up on reddit and people being threatened and jealous of a deceased partner oh that happens a lot all the time yeah like i have a guy who wrote in a while ago on an app and he basically was like my new fiance threw away all of our old home videos of my my late wife oh that's so destroying every memory for their kid.

47:16It's just like, you got to be done. Like who would be threatened by a ghost, but yet people are. And it's, but that is like, it's insecurity. It's just someone feeling not confident in their self. Cause if you're, cause realistically it's like, what are you jealous of that your partner had found love before you? And that's like, but that's everybody. Like even, you know, that's life. Like everyone contains multitudes. It's, you can't control your past. No, that retroactive jealousy of it all. And, you know, it's a big thing that, I don't know, I've seen it come up a lot. But at the same time, then know that about yourself and find someone who doesn't have that history.

47:58Yeah, for sure. There you go. it's also like I guess a lot of people because jealousy was such a bigger part of my life when I was a really young person and then it's like you know uh yeah I met my wife and it's like oh yeah this is just the the person that like I'm supposed to be with and therefore oh yeah whatever and me and my wife like definitely dated around with lots of different people before we met each other but there's something about it it's like oh well that's why I met her because we were out dating and it led me here it led me here perfect yeah like I think that that there's such a security in that that I think a lot of people don't feel, which, you know, is a bummer.

48:34I know. Top comment also picks up on the he should have saved his deceased wife's ring for their daughter. Next comment down, exactly this. It clearly bothers his late wife's sister or she would not have said anything, not overreacting, this is weird and would make me uncomfortable. His actions feel disrespectful of his late wife, not yours. Yeah, I think that's true. Yeah, it's like by just passing the ring, it's not only disrespecting the new woman, it's disrespecting the deceased wife. Because, yeah, it's like the memory of her. And it's like, oh, wow, you just gave my ring to somebody else.

49:08I know. And I think it just puts things down the road, maybe in an awkward position of like the daughter has to go and ask and be like, can I have my mom's ring? Yeah, it like pits the daughter against, yeah, it puts a replacement thing. Yeah, and some people wouldn't care. You know, maybe the daughter doesn't want that ring. Maybe she won't like that style, whatever. but at least give her the option. Yeah, definitely. Versus like changing it or melting it down or, oh, I would just be heartbroken. That's like, my mom's a big jewelry person. So like all of her jewelry is going to me. Oh, wow. Nice.

49:43So I'm just like this, I'd be devastated. Yeah. Cause there's such a history in, in jewelry. I, yeah, my, my youngest son, my parents found like, it was like some pinky ring from my great-grandfather and I was like, oh my God, this is so cool. Like a signet. Yeah, what a unique piece of jewelry that like, you know, I'm not that big of a jewelry person, but I thought it was so cool. Yeah. I'm so sentimental about jewelry and just any heirlooms. Like heirlooms should be passed down a certain way. Yeah. And that's kind of what some other comments pick up on too. Jewelry is handed down within a family, but if it was her ring and you are not her family, it should go to her daughter when she comes of age.

50:24I think your feelings are understandable, period. But the fact he knew you would have feelings about it and didn't tell you is the biggest issue. Yeah. And that is true. Him being like, I knew you'd have a problem about it. Then why did you still choose to do it? Oh, is that what he said? Yeah. Yeah, that's crazy. I kind of like forgot that for a sec. I totally forgot that. That's such a problem to be like, yeah, I figured you'd be annoyed about it. It's such a weird. Okay, well, if you had that premonition, then why did you do it? Yeah. There's a lot of people in the comments also sharing. My mom died and I got her ring.

50:56I would be very upset if this happened instead. Same. My mom passed when I was grown, but I am now wearing her ring. And if my dad had moved on and proposed to someone else with it, I would be very unhappy. Kind of feels like he just didn't think, like, I do think this is giving that he didn't think about it at all. Or thought about it and was like, well, whatever. It's not a big deal. I just don't want to have to get another ring and we'll just do it. And it'll be fine. And then clearly it wasn't because he should have thought about it more. Seriously. and it's like it is a big gesture yeah it's a big sentimental thing and now your whole proposal is soured because of this that sucks to have it be all wrapped up in this you think it's going to be a big piece of your story and now it's just this awkward thing that every time you mention it it is about this fight yeah it sucks dude uh i need an update on this one we don't have one yet But upon refresh, it is now a day old.

51:56So I'm going to follow. I'll make sure I keep my eyes peeled on OP's account. I'll send her a message. I'll do it all, guys. Don't worry. But that's all we got right now. That is wild. Yeah, what a juicy little thing. Do you have an iconic proposal story? Mine was pretty good. Yeah. He proposed in my hometown in Duluth. And I kind of knew it was coming because everyone was acting super weird. And like everyone was lying to me. And then I just like started feeling crazy. But you were gaslit. I was so bad. I was like literally bawling about it. I was like, why is everyone lying to me? No way. Yeah.

52:35But he proposed at the place I agreed to be his girlfriend. Oh. And it's this beautiful hotel in Duluth that overlooks the water. And so he brought me out on this like balcony with flowers and candles and all this stuff. And I didn't know it, but all of our family and friends were behind us on a higher balcony that overlooked it. Oh, that's so cute. So he proposed. I said yes. And then everyone started screaming. I was like, what? Oh, that's amazing. It was really cool. And so then we went and like celebrated after and got dinner with everyone. But the week before we were in Paris and we were out at Versailles, just the two of us.

53:16like we I don't know how I think they missed us on their security sweep or something literally the only two people on the grounds of Versailles yeah and like we set up a camera and like walked out and that's when I thought it was gonna happen yeah right and because everyone was messaging me they're like you're in Paris is he gonna propose like and I'm like here it comes here it comes here it comes and then just a regular photo just regular photo but I'm like it was still It was beautiful Yeah that's awesome To have everyone there Is so great How about you? We were It was December 2021 So Okay Or no December 2020 Then I got married in 2021 So it was like We were living together And But it was like Sort of COVID Like pandemic Coming and going And stuff And we I got the ring Me and my wife And her best friend All live together And Her best friend is like My sister at this point Yeah We got extremely close and are still very close.

54:14And it was Christmas. So it was just us in the house. And I was like, we should get dressed up for a Christmas photo shoot, which doesn't exist. And she was like, okay, whatever. So we got all dressed up. And then I had her friend text her and be like, hey, there's a bunch of packages on my porch. Can you go get them off the porch? Because they're like technology or whatever. And she was like, okay, I guess she's all underdressed up. she leaves and actually cut to from this morning that morning she was opening all our presents and she thought I was gonna like give her a ring and she was like a little bit grumpy that morning no so she was like no it's just like it's fine like nothing's wrong like but she was grumpy how long had you been together at that point oh uh we've been together for probably three years okay 2018 so then anyway so like yeah she was like a little grumpy that morning whatever she went to go she's like well where's the fucking ring it's about time it's about time come on and um yeah me and her best friend to pick the ring out and stuff and uh so she went to go do that while she did that i like put up string lights all over our house and then like it got dark just as it came back and then uh i was like down our long hallway i'd like put string lights so it was all like illuminating and whatever and she came to our bedroom and we filmed it and i was like i it's too vulnerable to watch i tried to watch at one point i'm like too vulnerable i cannot watch this is like way too just cringing shoot at yourself yeah but her and we're both like you know whatever crying being like here's this but her best friend watched it it was like yeah she's the only person who's seen it it'll be amazing to have for your kids like they'll want to see it and i um i fully posted mine online i'm just bawling and then i'm like fuck you guys because this episode is brought to you by chrysler life with kids is basically a never-ending series of plot twists one minute everyone's buckled in The next, someone's dropped a snack, lost a shoe, or needs a bathroom break immediately.

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58:11It's like so sad. It is. Yeah. It is. And it's just like it could have easily been avoided. I know. Brittle. Absolutely brutal. So is this next one. Here we go. This is coming from r slash relationship advice titled, How can I, 25 female, get my boyfriend, 23 male, to stop suffering maxing? Suffering maxing? Suffering maxing. That is insane. How can I get my boyfriend to stop suffering maxing? Huh, okay. Hi, everyone. I know the title is a little weird, but hear me out. My boyfriend, 23 male, really hates spending money on himself and then complains about it. It makes no sense. He earns six figures, has no debt or loans, and virtually no cost of living.

59:01He lives in a flat his parents bought him. Here's a few examples to explain what I mean. He often complains about how his colleagues are so well-dressed and polished, but he still wears the clothes his mom got him when he was 16 that are mostly too small or have holes. He refuses to go shopping for new stuff because he doesn't know what to get and then gets completely enraged when I point out nice outfits that would suit him well or offer to buy him clothes. He uses his dad's tossed out perfume and complains about how it smells, but also refuses to buy himself one that he actually likes. Same goes for food.

59:41He only eats fruits and vegetables when I buy them and says how much he loves it, but when he's alone, he lives off of dry noodles, plain yogurt, and bread. He even eats moldy and expired food just so it doesn't get thrown out. When I dispose of expired stuff, he throws a fit. he once fed me five month old eggs without my knowledge resulting in a trip to the er he complains about his haircut not suiting him but refuses to go get a better barber because it's ten dollars more he complains about his acne but won't get the prescription his derm prescribed him he complains about being skinny but now that he's built a bit of muscle he's whining about how he doesn't want his shoulders to get broader because then he'd have to get new clothes he He complains about having to take cold showers, but literally nobody but himself is holding him back from letting it warm up a little bit before hopping in.

1:00:41His suffering maxing is so bad, it kind of started to imprint on me. I feel bad for replacing my shoes when they have holes. I feel guilty for showering with warm water and having a smoothie every morning instead of stale bread with nothing. It's really starting to piss me off and I really need help understanding what causes this and how I can gently encourage him to get things he likes, live a little, and embrace growth. Are there any men here who have been like this and have successfully overcome it? Oh my God. Okay. So break up. I feel like this is a bad relationship. All of the things that this person wrote out are a nightmarish.

1:01:30And it feels like it's also the thing of like, if you loved this person, you would find some of these charming and they all sound horrible. I don't think I would find any of these charming no matter how much I loved this person. I'm like, How have you not gotten the ick yet? I mean, yeah, no, that's what I'm saying. Like, it feels like if you're this lasered in on all the things you find annoying about your partner, you should not be with them. What is keeping you there? Yeah, what's keep, there's no redeeming qualities. What's keeping you there, actually? Suffering maxing? This person is a dud.

1:02:01This person is bad. And, like, I am very empathetic to the idea that, like, people can be in a rut. But I think that if you are, like, lasered in being, like, they complain about their hair, they complain about the food, they eat moldy food, they put somebody to the ER. If you're listing it all out like that, you're not in a position to help them with any of it, sort of. Because even if you're just writing into Reddit about all of it, it's like you've already illuminated that this relationship is not going to be the one that pulls them out of the rut. Now, that being said, I feel like all of these things are because this person is unhappy with themself.

1:02:39yes like complaining can be very addictive and getting into this habit of like oh I don't want to do this I don't want to better my life whatever I've definitely been in positions never this bad but I've been in positions where I'm like okay like I'm just sort of unhappy with my life I need to change something I don't really know how I'm totally empathetic to that but I kind of think that this person is maybe not the right person to do it with them yeah you know I agree I mean he's 23 still pretty young I think maybe some therapy could help but it's interesting because I think a lot of people struggle with like being overly frugal or you know finances are really tough for a lot of people right now but it doesn't sound like he's come from that background of like oh I have this scarcity mindset because my family really struggled or whatever so it also just like doesn't really make that much sense considering his parents purchased his flat for him.

1:03:36Yeah. So he doesn't really have expenses. Like, what are we saving all this money for? Like, you can afford to not eat stale food. It's better for you. Like, why are you putting yourself through this? Like, what is going on? Wait, so I actually didn't get at all that this was because entirely because of frugality. Is this all like I get the clothing and stuff like that, but the food too, I guess the idea is that he doesn't want to spend money on food. That's kind of what I'm getting. Yeah, that's, I think, maybe what the OP is getting at too. I just sort of missed it. Because I'm like, if that's the issue, you actually don't need to spend a ton of money to get food that is good for you.

1:04:14That's exactly what I'm saying. Like, there's people that, there's one content creator, I'm forgetting her name, but she literally goes to like the Dollar Tree and makes like - Oh, incredible content creator. Oh my God, what is her name? And she does like Thanksgiving dinner for$20. Yeah, she's an angel. She's like, basically we'll do Thanksgiving dinner at the dollar store for$15. And she buys things and then is able to buy bread and then use it as breadcrumbs and create a dough out of it and make a little dessert thing. It's truly incredible. It's incredible. Yeah, she's amazing. Is it literally the Dollar Tree dinner?

1:04:48It might be. Is that the YouTube? Dollar Tree dinners? Yeah, maybe it is. I'm not sure. Yeah. No, yeah, you can definitely do that. But even like, it seems like he has a good job. Like he makes six figures, whatever. I think that he also just, he needs a code. He needs a life philosophy. He needs the grind set. And we have to give him the grind set without radicalizing him into sort of a, you know, bad, evil villain. Yeah. I just think this isn't your person. No. And this would drive me nuts. I mean, if it's rubbing off on you so much to the point you have holes in your shoes. Yeah, that's crazy.

1:05:23And you feel bad about getting new shoes. Like, that's also not healthy for you. Yeah. Also, I find that this is one of those things that is not about money, but it would be easy for him to say it is about money. Like you can keep your life together and buy, have clean clothes and keep yourself tidy and, and like take care of yourself in a way where you're not spending money. I think it's more about the philosophy of like, you know, gratitude and stuff like that. And I only say this because it sounds like he has a stable job that does pay him a good amount of money. You know what I mean? If it was like he's financially struggling and that's affecting his mental health and all this other stuff is falling by the wayside, I think that's different, totally different.

1:06:04But in this case, he has a good job. He lives with his girlfriend. He has the means to do all of this stuff, but I think he's choosing not to. And it sort of is the thing of the way you treat, you know, yourself in all of those ways is the way you feel about yourself. He doesn't feel good about himself. So he's eating like garbage. He's complaining about getting in the cold shower because he doesn't feel like he deserves a hot shower. Like all of it might be subconscious, but I do think that it can be fixed with just a level of like, okay, I deserve to be here and I'm feeling grateful about myself.

1:06:32I think therapy is really the only solution. I agree. You know? No, the more you pointed out too, it does feel like it's like just torturing himself. Yeah. The cold shower thing, especially because it's like, how much extra money is it going to be to wait a few minutes to let your water heat up? No, it's not. It's not negligible. Totally negligible. 25 cents a dollar. Yeah. for just like some mild comfort. Like it does feel like it's, he just wants to suffer. Kind of. And I do think OP calling it suffering maxing because I know looks maxing is like a thing. I do agree. And people kind of are disagreeing.

1:07:13Someone says, I mean, it doesn't sound like suffering maxing as much as just being stingy. Is there anything he spends money on? Are you paying for all of your dates? From your post, it just sounds like he has an aversion. to spending his own money and moans until you spend your own on him. See the fruits and veggies thing. OP does respond. Okay, that puts some things into perspective. I always thought he must be suffering because he complains a lot. He takes me on a date for my birthday, and we don't really go on dates that cost money apart from that. On the rare occasion that we do, we split the bill or I pay for it all when he otherwise refuses to join me.

1:07:53Okay. This is like, yeah, one, I think this is not the relationship. So my main piece of advice is breakup. Breakup. But definitely breakup. My sub piece of advice, if breakup is not available, choose option B, which is that creativity can get you around like the frugal thing. If you're like, we don't go on dates or whatever. By the way, go for a walk to a store, buy a loaf of French bread and go to the park and eat it with each other. It will cost you$3 and it will be gorgeous. Be outside, be the, like, I do think that using a little bit of creativity, even if it's like, okay, his shoes have holes or whatever.

1:08:32It's like, okay, let's like save up a tiny amount of money and get you a new outfit or just like create a budget for like, we're going to buy an outfit and we're going to save money in this other way. Buy frozen fruits and vegetables. They're way cheaper. And usually they're more fresh than fruits and vegetables you buy in the fresh section. That's crazy. There's lots of ways to do stuff that is just a little bit creative, but I don't even think that's the issue. I really think he is just trying to punish himself. I know people that sort of refuse to allow themselves to like be okay because they feel bad about themselves.

1:09:06I think that's what it is. The more you say it, I'm like, Miles, I 100 % agree. That's gotta be it. It's just the idea of being like, yeah, I got the promotion, but it's like way more work. And it's just, and it's like, well, wait, hang on. Like we skipped over the part where you get to be like, yeah, I got the promotion, you know? And so many people live their life that way. I can't possibly, you know, imagine how they do, but they do. No, I, you said something else too, where you said complaining is like addictive. completely yeah and it's so true i've fallen into this i've literally been where it's like i'm just overly negative and i'm complaining a lot and i'm venting but like a friend was like every time we talk it's negative and i'm just like okay okay we're gonna shift that and once you start realizing and it becomes apparent then you're like okay like i do need to be more positive i need to practice gratitude because the more i think negatively the more i complain i'm building that in my brain.

1:10:05Like that pathway is getting stronger and it's just, that's default. That's easy. So I do think there's a bigger thing going on here with him, his mental health. And I don't think you can necessarily address this. He's got to be willing to address it within himself. Totally. Yeah. Misery loves company. And I think that's true with like, if you are like, I feel like I've been in relationships in the past where I was like, oh yeah, that person is negative and I'm like, I'm becoming a little negative and we're sort of negative together and we're complaining about everything and everything. And it's like, Oh, this is horrible.

1:10:37No, you can fall into friendships like that. Like I was doing it with that person because they were doing it with me and they were complaining about their work. So then I would complain about me and being stressed and burnt out. And then somehow we got lost in the sauce and it just didn't work anymore. And so we addressed it. Totally. It is easy to fall into that, but okay, now how do we get out of it? And OP does have another comment here too, that he does have a bachelor's degree in finance and econ and he reads many books on finance. So he has good financial literacy. I know. I do know. I know rich people that are like this.

1:11:12And I think it comes from an upbringing thing. Like maybe they just were raised to be like, don't spend any money and like a fear thing. But you gotta, if you have the means, you have to relax it a little bit. Have you seen those couples that like share floss? That's disgusting. Why? Save money. There's like a show. It was like another version, not extreme couponers, but like kind of like a cost saving thing. Yeah. And they like did something weird with deodorant and would share floss and like reuse it multiple days. Oh my God. That's so disgusting. It is the thing again, like I feel like I've seen a bunch of TikToks recently.

1:11:52because by the way, everything is crazy expensive. Like a huge empathy for anybody that is like, I'm financially struggling, fucking deodorants,$9. Like a hundred percent empathy to that. Yeah. Everyone's getting laid off. It's just shit right now. No, it's terrible. It's like, it's like a terrible economy right now. But that being said, like there's all these great accounts. Like you have the Dollar Tree one, or I saw another one where it was this guy being like, I'm going to make like, you know, he makes like salsa and like one of the, and like, you know, chips and enchiladas or something like that.

1:12:20And he's like, here's actually, like I'm going to spend$10 and here's exactly where it goes. I love that. And it was really cool. And I think there are, again, it's like, if you use creativity and try to remain a little bit grateful, like you can do things that feel like luxury. Like, wow, I made this beautiful home-cooked meal that has vegetables that has whatever. And it doesn't cost that much, but it feels when you're in that negative headspace, it feels like you can't, you're like, wow, I want food and food is fucking$30 and I don't have it. So you then like, it's easy to fall into this cycle where you are mad at yourself and you treat yourself poorly.

1:12:54I think that's what it is. Yeah. I hope we get an update on this one, but that's all we got right now. Jeez. Brutes. Break up. Break up. Okay. I'm giving you a choice on this. Okay. They are both from the Two Hot Takes subreddit. Whoa. But you only get one. Okay. Option one, my fiance wants me to adopt his weird bathroom habit. Okay. Or option two, husband can't finish unless he watches porn or my friend's Instagram posts. Oh, oh my God. Okay, the second one is so disgusting, but I do feel like I need to know more. Like that dynamic is so fucking weird, but I'm fascinated. Here we go. I, 20 female, and my husband, 23 male, got married six months ago, but we've been together five years.

1:13:53I was 15 and he was 17, and we grew up together and were friends for years before this. I moved into the house he bought when I went to college, after I graduated high school. We've been struggling with intimacy lately, and I need advice. Edit, he does all the financials other than I send him$300 to$400 a month for rent, and my phone bill out of the 550 my parents give me during the school year. I work two part-time jobs while going to university full-time. Our monthly bills are around$2 ,000, and I am paying some of my student loans off while in college. Yes, now that we're married, I would get half the house if we divorced, but collectively, we're in almost$300 ,000 debt from both of our schools, cars, and the house.

1:14:32His sister and her two toddlers also live with us, but up until three months ago, when I brought it up, she was living with us rent-free for almost 10 months, but I'm expected to pay$300 to$400 a month. Whenever I lived with my parents, we never really had sex in a bed. It was in a car or quickies when we could. Now that we live together and are older, we don't have spontaneous sex at all. I use toys when we have sex because it's the only way I can finish. He gets annoyed that I use the toys every time, but it feels better to me that way. In the last eight months or so, we would watch porn while having sex.

1:15:07In the beginning of the relationship, I told him I don't like watching it, but even though I told him that, he never stopped. I've asked several times over the years, so I figured if you're not going to stop, I'll join you. Fast forward to the last four months. When dirty talking, he always talks about bringing another girl. His body count is seven, mine is one. Whenever I talk about bringing another guy, he gets upset if I say much. But then he talks about bringing another girl and asks me to pick someone. Not a famous person, but one of my friends. No, no, no, no, no, no. At first, I was like, okay, whatever.

1:15:46But as times went on, he asked me to pick a girl to finish to four times in a row. So obviously, I'm like, oh, I'm not good enough for him to finish to. With the combo of that and me gaining some weight since we've moved in together, I'm very self-conscious. We've never had sex with the light on anymore, and 9 times out of 10, he watches porn while we have sex and must finish to it. I've told him several times I don't like him bringing up other girls, especially my best friends. It's weird to me, and something that's actually obtainable unlike a porn star. He still does it occasionally, but less often than in the beginning.

1:16:27For reference, we usually have sex minimum one time a week, but sometimes two to three. The longest we've ever went without sex was three weeks because I had a cyst on my ovary and had to get it removed before our wedding. That way we could even have sex on our honeymoon. Other than that three-week period, it's at least once a week. What do I do? He doesn't stop when I tell him I don't like something. And knowing he's never stopped watching porn when we were younger makes me wonder if he finishes to my friend's Instagrams behind my back. Oh my God. That's okay. There are so many problems. It's almost like, where do we even begin?

1:17:03It's like a problem buffet, Morgan. Um, problem buffet. It's an all you can eat problem buffet. Okay. I just want to say preface. First of all, sex is a sensitive topic. So if you've got adverse opinions to what I'm about to say, that's fine. I don't know. Whatever. But I do think that there is a better way, you know, I just feel like it's like specifically with when she's like, I asked him to stop certain things and he doesn't. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Big red flag alert. Hello. Hello. Hi guys. But that is like such a big red flag to me. But also I think, you know, lots of different people have lots of different types of sex.

1:17:44And I think that's great. By the way, her saying like, you know, I use toys in the bedroom. That's super common, but it's like, you're also 20. You're 20. Like, I feel like that's what it takes for a lot of people to even figure out how to get off. A hundred percent. I feel like there's a super low percentage of women that can orgasm without external simulation. So it's annoying that he is shameful of that or doesn't believe in it. That's some weird male ego thing when he just needs to fucking do the research and be like, hey, actually, statistically, this is like super common, very normal way for women to achieve orgasm.

1:18:20The other thing is that I think he is, I'm going to fucking do a read here. He's a 22 year old male. 23. He's a 23 year old male. He can only come by watching porn during sex. He's watching porn, not when you're having sex and watching too much of it. Nonstop. Nonstop. Porn addiction. Totally. Guaranteed. The idea that he has to bring in the imaginary and the like, the dopamine receptor receptor thing. He's hooked up to a clockwork, clockwork orange porn machine. And I think that that is like, you know, unfortunately just if you have to bring it in like that, like, you know, and again, lots of people, I'm sure that there's lots of couples out there that are like, we like watching porn together and that's a part of our relationship.

1:19:09And I think that's fine, but that doesn't seem to be what's going on here. She doesn't like doing it. She's asked him to, you know, not do it a couple of times. And I think that it's frustrating to her that there's he's still watching it i also don't understand how he is watching it and she's like can you please stop how is that i'm literally envisioning like doggy style and a computer's up on the bed to the right i want to throw up like that's what i'm envisioning like this is there's a computer a laptop an ipad next to them at all times and this is how he's engaging and it's like that's so that that bums me out so hard it's just you're at a point and no is the full sentence you don't have to compromise and do things you don't want to do to appease your partner especially sexually like you said i didn't i didn't like watching this porn but like if you can't beat him join him or if he's not going to stop join him whatever you said like yeah you shouldn't have to do that at all i think you're sexually incompatible i think you're 20 i think you got married very young.

1:20:08Divorce. Divorce. I wish I could say breakup because that's obviously a lot easier. I think debt, it doesn't matter about the debt. You'll deal with the debt. It fucking sucks you have that much. As someone with 200k of student loans, I get it. I'm trying to pay it down. The interest, it's a bitch. It sucks. But this is not worth staying because I think at the bottom line, he doesn't really respect you. 100%. And love is about respect. Yeah. Especially in the most vulnerable intimate moments of it yeah it's like also good meaningful sex means that everyone feels good and respected the whole time right and i think that's kind of the bare minimum even by the way even if you want to be disrespected you got to feel respected to be disrespected in like a playful way yeah safe words and whatever it looks like totally like even if that's what's in it for you i just think that inherently this is like if something about this is ringing like you know uh uncomfortable or like hey i asked him not to do this i'm just kind of i guess i'm just picking up the scraps of he's gonna watch it the instagram stories thing feels like it was tacked on at the end yeah well i think it's because he keeps being like what friend of yours should we bring in yeah that is so weird to me the minute you start talking about my friends when i'm naked with you even just like no and this is like a small thing and like again everyone i'm giving a lot of caveats because I don't want people to be like, Miles said this.

1:21:33But yeah, there's, you know, there's a lot of nuance. I think that even just the idea that she's like, it's lights off all the time now. And she's feeling a little bit insecure about her body. If he is not gassing you up and making you feel super excited about all of this, making you feel like, Hey, like I'm really excited to do this and you're so beautiful, whatever it, that is also bare minimum to me. Like your partner should be, you should feel more secure around your partner. you know, they should be gassing you up to feel good about yourself always, especially in times when you're like doing something very intimate.

1:22:06Uh, so I think that that just really brings bad to me. Yeah, absolutely. That's like something I said in my vows. I was like, Justin, my partner's like the first person that I've ever been with that has made me feel beautiful, like safe in every way, every vulnerable moment. Like I feel so good and respected. And it's like, that's how you should feel that's like that is love yeah and so if you're not there after this many years with this person and trying and now you know it's i get it you went from your parents house to now you guys have your own place that's a big transition you've been trying to figure each other out but it's clearly not working and there's no respect there to develop it forward Totally.

1:22:50Top comment on this one. He what? Are you asking us for advice on where to find a divorce lawyer or a good psychologist? Because that's the only thing we can offer you. 100%. 7k upvotes. Someone responds to it and goes, right? What's that line? Don't involve us unless you're going to leave him or something like that. If she starts to defend him, I'm out. and someone responds back and they say, she's never had another relationship. She has no comparison. It also rings of like, well, I guess this is what relationships are like. No, no, no, no. There is such a, there is a better way. There's a better person out there for you that's going to respect you more.

1:23:29I feel like this is a common thing with Reddit. You just see people being like, well, this is how relationships are, right? And they're in like the most nightmarish, like super villain relationship. And it's like, no, there's so much out there. Like there's so many people out there and this person's so young. like if you're married and I obviously it is logistically very difficult that you're married and I hear that it will only get more difficult as you stay in this relationship and if you're gonna get a divorce do it now and then rebuild that way you have the rest of your life to rebuild into whatever it's gonna be but don't like cling to the you know tattered shreds of this in the hopes that it will get better because it just seems like it's not the right thing why are you suffer maxing.

1:24:08Suffer maxing. Hello. Don't suffer max. And like the prime of your life, 20, literally get divorced, go move on campus, go make friends and date and figure out what is out there because I look at it and I thought this about every single boyfriend, every single boyfriend from the very first one, my 14 year old high school boyfriend, I thought I was going to marry him. My 17 year old high school boyfriend, I thought I was going to marry him. 19 year old high school college boyfriend thought I was going to marry him. It's like, if I would have married any of those people, I would be miserable. Yeah.

1:24:42And I would be with someone that literally cheated on me and had another kid. Like, yeah, it just like, I look at that and it's like, but that's what I thought love was at that time. And not everyone gets lucky and marries their high school sweetheart. And it's totally perfect. It can happen, but the proof is in the pudding. Yeah. And you don't got that here. No. It's like there's so many better options for this person. I think even just also like the idea of like intimacy as like it's a connection between two people. Or like even if that means that like you're really connected and you're doing wild, you know, freaky deaky stuff in the bedroom, that's great too.

1:25:18But it has to start with like we respect each other. We feel good and safe here. And then we're building from there. Yeah. You know? I'm with you. this is a listener so hopefully we'll we'll get an update good luck out there i know get a good divorce lawyer it's only a couple days old at this time so we will see we'll see what we get is responding to some comments i listen to tht so i hope they would see this and give me advice thank you um all of this is helpful this is by far one of the most helpful comments this episode is brought to you by Cash App. I myself have fallen for a scam, thought I was getting a really good deal on tickets, and bam, I sent the money and I didn't get my tickets.

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1:27:09So you keep what you earn. Give your clothes a second life with Vinted. Download the Vinted app for free to start listing with no seller fees. This episode is brought to you by Revolve. My summer has been jam-packed with moments where I just want to look cute. And the best way to do it is to find a good fit, an outfit that makes you feel confident, that feels on trend or reflects your unique style. And Revolve is my go-to place to find those fits. I just went to Europe and basically every single one of my outfits was from Revolve. And I've never, never been complimented more. So whether it's a big night out, a wedding, a summer trip, or you just need something last minute that actually works, Revolve always has it.

1:27:52Go to revolve.com slash THT to shop our faves and use code THT for 15 % off your first order. Fast shipping, easy returns. It just makes everything easier. That's revolve.com slash THT. You can shop our faves and get 15 % off your first order offer available for a limited time so don't miss out and so you're out there yeah there's better for you do not sacrifice your happiness and not being respected i mean a lot of people just comment again and again like quoting op and just being like i keep telling him not to do something but he keeps doing it no and they go reread this to yourself a thousand times yeah and so really really i think that's wise it's like you've said it yourself yeah No Okay one last one for us here Okay Okay This is coming from r slash relationship advice My 28 male girlfriend Who recently became my fiance 25 female Apparently stalked me Before we started dating How do I deal with being creeped out by her now?

1:29:02Oh my god Isn't this like the premise of a couple different movies? Is this you? Joe Goldberg? It's Joe Goldberg, which by the way, I am watching right now. I can't get enough of it. It is so trashy. I love it. A little over three years ago, I moved to a new city for work. About this time, three years ago, I moved into a new house in the city. The house was perfect. It had a pool. I loved to swim. And there was a running trail that went around the neighborhood. I loved to run outside. For the first month or so, I had little interaction with the neighbors other than a friendly wave or how are you?

1:29:34Shortly after coming back from one of my runs, two women, my fiancé, who we'll call Kim and her sister, Lisa, knocked on the door and introduced themselves. My fiancé's sister lived across the street with her husband and their two kids. We made casual small talk, which in retrospect, I think was intended to ascertain if I had a significant other. But in any case, they ended up inviting me to their 4th of July cookout that was coming up. I said I might stop by. 4th of July comes, and I was just planning to stay at the house. Late afternoon, Kim and Lisa stop by and plead with me to come over and have a burger.

1:30:12I decide to go over. I stay for a couple of hours. Kim asks me a lot of questions, and I spend the bulk of that time just answering Kim's questions. After this experience, I start to see Kim regularly when I'm out and about. There's a grocery store near the neighborhood that I would see her there at. I also would see her pretty regularly at a nearby coffee shop that I started frequenting. Every time, she tries to initiate a conversation. About six months into living there, I'm doing a run on a trail around the neighborhood. I see Kim. She flags me down. She said that she lost her phone and asks if I can call it.

1:30:52I call, and we don't hear anything. She then asks if I can walk with her along the trail to help her look. I do. We walk for about 15 minutes and I keep calling. She eventually finds it covered by some leaves a little way off the trail. Shortly after this experience, she offers to take me to lunch as a thank you. I see no harm in that. So I say yes. We go to lunch. She seems to have similar interests to me and we have a good conversation. Shortly after that, we start dating. Our relationship progresses. About a year ago, she moves in full-time with me in my house. About four months ago, we get engaged.

1:31:34About a few months ago, one of her friends found out that her boyfriend that she was living with was cheating. Some days later, she came over to the house. I worked on finishing getting the pool ready for the season, and they got lubed up on some wine. They were sitting on the back patio while I was working and talking really loud. Mostly, it was the standard, F that dude for cheating. At one point, Kim asked me to get them more wine, so I did. After bringing it back, they started talking about me. After a while, Kim's Fred said something like, quote, I just need to start stocking a good one. Kim's response was, quote, I can give you the stocking to get your man 101 course.

1:32:15And then talked about figuring out a guy's schedule, showing up to the places they are, and finding excuses to talk to them. and about the fact that it might take a while. They talked about this for a while and were laughing about it the whole time. Her friend stayed over and we had a pretty chill night. The next morning, her friend left. What she said about the stocking really bothered me. So I asked about it. She tried to play it off as a joke, but said that she did do that stuff with me. She figured out when I would go running, go to the grocery store, go to the coffee shop, et cetera, and would be there.

1:32:53She had been trying to get me to ask her out for months. After that did not work, her and her sister came up with the lost phone plan on the trail. Hearing all of that really creeped me out. Kim did not see the big deal. She apologized, but she does not see the problem with what she did. It really has me second guessing everything about the relationship. Wow. I feel like I have conflicting thoughts about this. Because I think that on one hand, they got engaged. So the relationship did end up being fine. Unlike Joel Goldberg, she didn't murder anybody. So she ran into her crush at the local coffee shop and was like, oh, I think he goes.

1:33:38There's something almost juvenile and innocent about it. even though, yeah, if the gender roles were reversed, I would probably feel differently. But I think that there's something fun and flirtatious about it and maybe harmless. I don't know. I don't know. I'm really, really curious how she figured out these habits. Yeah, that's a good point. Was she sitting in a bush outside his apartment? Or did she go to the coffee shop every day and work there and just hoped he'd show up? and oh, he showed up today at 10. I'll come back tomorrow at 10. How do you get a meet cute and get that traditional, I met him at a coffee shop, I met him at a bar, unless you're putting yourself in those places, but the context of how insane she went would matter.

1:34:31To me, it's like, yeah, how insane is too insane? Let's say you have a crush on somebody and you're like, oh, I know that they're a regular at this coffee shop. I'm going to go and see if they're there. And then they're like, oh yeah, I think they kind of work there every morning. Like, well, I need my morning coffee. Like, I guess I'll stop by at that coffee shop that, and maybe I'll see him there, but like, maybe I won't. Maybe I'll just get my coffee. Like, is that crazy? So we do have some comments from OP. There's only a couple. They do live in the US. OP's from the South. We now live in the Midwest.

1:34:58So OP says no lie about activities as far as I know, because I think a lot of people, especially with OP being like, I'm unclear about the relationship as a whole. Yeah. Because if someone's stalking you and they're changing themselves so that you like them, that would be weird. Yeah, right. That would be totally weird. I hate horses. And my fiance's like, I hate horses. Yeah. Oh, my God. Disneyland? Gross. All things I love. But OP says she does hate running outdoors and only did it because I would use the trail. But she figured out without telling me that I went to the grocery store twice a week.

1:35:34a big shop early Sunday afternoon, a smaller shop on Wednesday after work. If she could, she would get dressed up, put on a cute outfit and makeup, and then go grocery shopping during those times. She would also drive past her work to go to my coffee shop in the mornings when I would usually be there. One of her friends works there and would tell her when I showed up. That, okay, yes, that like on paper does seem weird, but I'm also like, isn't this the classic like oh my gosh yeah your guy's here like you should come get a latte and say hi if my girlfriend didn't do that i'd be pissed at her yeah it's like it's flirtatious and harmless if she was like so i waited by his car till he came out to his car like yeah that would be weird this honestly reminds me of the thing of like flowers sent to your work by someone you have a crush on adorable sentimental flowers sent to your work by somebody you don't have a crush on horrifying serial killer I have a feeling people are going to have a lot of hot takes on this one Yeah, because it's, I get the concern Of being like, no, it is fucking weird Well, and you did gender flip it too Yeah, exactly But again, she's not putting an air tag on his car She's just like trying to meet him And like have him catch a hint and ask her out Which, girl, you could have just asked him out Yeah Like don't let the gender roles and those stereotypes Sure Keep you from asking someone out Totally but would he have even been interested like you kind of had to play this long game for him to even ask you out it's like going to his house and trying to get him over the 4th of July thing like not crazy at all like that's totally normal being like I have a crush on the neighbor I want him to come over to my sister's thing oh my god so many people see a hot guy walking their dog and are like he's so hot I've literally this was in high school I used to rollerblade by this hot guy's house in my neighborhood Oh, yeah.

1:37:23Constantly hoping he'd see me out. Never worked. My girlfriend was friends with him. Like oddly, they started talking on Instagram way back in the day. And I was like, Katie, will you please like ask him out for me for my birthday present? All I want for my birthday is a date with him. And she fucking did. Didn't happen in high school, but I ended up hooking up with him in college and he dated for a while. See, there you go. Like, but I'm like, I used to rollerblade past his house constantly. And I told him that. Yeah. And he was like, you did? And I was like, yeah, I thought you were so cute.

1:37:57But see, that's, they're so harmless. Like, I really think it's so harmless. And it's like kind of adorable, you know? Like the idea that being like, you know what it is? I think that OP, there's a little bit of a like, wow, am I just so unbelievably hot that like, wow, she really stalks me. like that it bothers me about it the writing of it being like yeah and then like she's drunk with her friends and she reveals her whole plan that I was the hottest guy in the neighborhood that she's stocked to find it's like well no she had a crush on you then you guys like fell in love and got engaged like yeah well and it wasn't like a stranger like she was genuinely interacting with you in normal ways too like yeah the fourth of July thing is a great example where it's like no she invited you over to try to get to know you.

1:38:42She just didn't want to ask you out. She wanted you to ask her out and it took a while to get there. OP really does have a problem with the word stalking though, because there's a couple other comments like she orchestrated her schedule to go grocery shopping when I did, go to a coffee shop I did, started using the running trail around the neighborhood and she hates running outside. She has described her behavior as stalking and still does today. She just does not see it as a big deal. I think it is the word. I think it's the word stalking. I stalked him. Right. I had a crush on you, so I went to places I thought I might see you, right?

1:39:20I think it's also that if you went to a coffee shop because the person you had a crush on might be there and they aren't there, that's just as normal as you going there and running into them. The phone story is the only one that's pretty weird, but I think it's weird and like, oh yeah, it's totally weird that you did that because you had such a crush on this person that you pretended you lost your phone like that's totally weird yeah that's a little aggressive it's totally aggressive but it reminds me of the jim and pam thing in the office where he's like remember that summer you uh taught me how to drive stick i've been driving sticks since high school it's a little bit like you know it's a white lie yeah it's like a white lie to spend time around this person and it's like well no like is jim a stalker i don't think so i think it's just like yeah it is a little white lie and i get that but it almost feels like he's being like now her whole thing has changed and i think it's sort of it's just like she had a crush on you and she was head over heels and it just depends on the context you're looking at it you know yeah well i think too where's the line like the formal definition of stalking a pattern of repeated unwanted attention harassment or contact directed at a specific person that causes them to feel threatened, intimidated, or distressed?

1:40:34I think it's the, also the unwanted. If she had asked him out and he had been like, no, I'm not really interested. And then she was showing up that it would be different. That would be really, that's like where I'm like, okay, no, no, you turned her down. Then it became unwanted, repetitive. Like, I think also like, yeah, the part of this that is, that rings a little bit strange to me is like, he's like, so basically I just answered her questions all night long. And it's like, are you sure you weren't like also kind of like, this is the person that you got engaged to. You sure you weren't a little bit flirting back with them at the, like, like, I think it's, it puts all the onus on this person instead of being like, yeah, I went to this barbecue and I like had a really nice conversation with this, one of my neighbors to like, that is rewritten as she asked me all these questions.

1:41:19I just spent the whole night answering her questions. I think that is a little bit disingenuous considering that he eventually went to be engaged to this person. Yeah. You know? Like, do you like her even? Do you like her even? Yeah. Or did you just like the attention she gave you? Yeah, that's interesting. Like, do you like her? Right. I don't know. I think this, honestly, though, will be relationship ending for OP, given how he feels about it, which your feelings are your feelings at the end of the day. Yeah, totally. I think this is a good opportunity for her to be like, well, yeah, like, that's how I found you but like if you don't love me now then the relationship then we shouldn't be together but i think that yeah i sense i smell just a little hint of him being like wow i'm so awesome you stalked me like i probably could do like somebody else probably like me that way or something i don't know i don't know why i feel that way i know well a lot of comments they're all over the place yeah and i'm by the way again i'm happy to be proven wrong in the comment this is a lot of ways you could look at this i'm not personally attached don't yell at Don't be mad.

1:42:22Don't be mad at me. So someone goes, I don't know. I mean, the way you framed it obviously sounds like a stalker, but if it were framed slightly different, this would just sound like you met a cute girl who lives in your town and started dating. Yeah. I'm not saying she didn't stalk you, but you described situations where she asks you a lot of questions about yourself, as one does when they're attracted to a person and wants to get to know them, and you seemed willing to provide the answers without any problem on these occasions. If you weren't and she was getting your info via another method, then I would see a big problem.

1:42:49Undeniably, showing up at your spots is weird. no matter how you dice it. But if I live in the same city as a man I'm attracted to, and he told me he goes to X grocery store on Tuesdays for a few minutes from my house, and I have Tuesday off, well, I need groceries too. So frankly, I see no issue with doing my grocery run on a Tuesday in hopes that I might see him and strike up a conversation. There's bounds to it, but hopefully you get my point. I think it's important to note, OP, whether or not your girlfriend lived in this town before she met you and moved in with you, or if she spent a lot of time at her sister's home before you moved across the street.

1:43:17If not, then it's weird. If so, then I think she was drunk and chose an unfortunate choice of words. But ultimately, you get to decide what you're comfy with or not. Yeah, right. It's like, I do feel that ultimately, it is up to him to be like, how do you feel about it? If this is too weird for you, then don't get married. But I just sort of am, I think there's a lot of situations that probably are very similar to this that people would just describe as normal. Like, is it weird to look somebody up on Instagram and see like, what their past relationship was if it's in the Instagram thing because everybody does that.

1:43:50And that's, I think, just a facet of dating in the internet world. But it would be weird to be like, okay, what's their address? Let me look at their address. Okay, now I'm looking at Street View. There is always a line and I think it's the malicious. It's like what crosses over the line to being malicious or make you feel scared, intimidated, or threatened or something. Yeah. Someone responds to that and they go, hey, you're fucking weird for not disavowing this. That person was downvoted negative 28. The previous comment had 427. So more positive versus whatever. Yeah. And the person responds and goes, I'm weird for thinking critically.

1:44:27OP literally hasn't given enough info for strangers on the web to discern whether or not this person is a stalker. I'm more concerned that you think you have the info to make blanket statements about a situation. OP responds. All I know is that she orchestrated her schedule to go grocery shopping when I did. Coffee shop, whatever. They read that comment. she has described her behavior as stalking and the same person responds okay so you have your answer what exactly do you want everyone here to do agree with you and sob and shit on your partner not the point of this sub but it doesn't sound like you need advice either you seem pretty set on how you feel so you should already know what to do that's a good point op says i came here to see if anyone has had a similar experience and figured out ways to work through it or has some solid advice on how to work through it.

1:45:13If I did not want to work through this, there would be no reason to come here. I do not have my answer. I do not think simply telling posters, get over it, is the point of this sub either. But I don't think that they said to get over it. I think that they just said like, you know, it's the way you slice it. You can look at it two different ways. And so someone replies to OP and says, I think you need to ask more questions from her. Did she park outside your house and watch you? Did she drive behind you undetected so she could pop out at the right times to determine your schedule? Did she make up lies about her interests or herself in order to package herself like a product she wanted to sell you?

1:45:52If so, you might feel a certain way about that. Did she fish for info in order to design opportunities to connect? Was she persistent in placing herself in front of you until you saw her as an option? That feels very different. And if she's still fundamentally the person you got to know and fell in love with, I'd be grateful that she was so persistent. This mostly to me would hinge on if she's really the person she's presented herself to be, or if she was crafty in creating opportunities to present herself to you. Yeah. That I think is the line there that was like, if she's the person you fell in love with still, then I don't think it necessarily matters that how they fell in love.

1:46:32But I also think, you know what it is? There is something about the writing of the way he tells the story that is a purity test as if he's never done anything that toes the line between like, yeah, I was a little wild. I had a crush on this person and I looked them up on this way. and I am sort of in the mind that I think everybody has a you know not everyone's a perfect person we've all kind of you know okay hello but we've all done things that are sort of in the morally gray when and by morally gray I don't mean like you know keying their car I mean like yeah like I like you know yeah sure I found the I saw that they liked this coffee shop on Instagram so I decided to go there in case I ran into my crush yeah like that's a pretty normal but a little bit weird thing to do around somebody you have a crush on.

1:47:18Absolutely. Comments are kind of going crazy on it. That's wild. I know. People do ask, like, why not go to couples counseling? Sure. Which I think is a great idea. Yeah, definitely. OP does respond, though. She has zero interest in doing that. She feels no need to discuss this further. She thinks I am being completely ridiculous. I mean, yeah. When you're in an argument, not a good way to sort of work it out with your partner. But yeah. No, and the response to that is dismissing your feelings like that is a huge red flag. And I agree. And it is understandable that she would be defensive and maybe embarrassed now knowing his reaction.

1:47:57But if you're not going to address your partner's feelings, then that is a big concern. Well, you know, it's like they say that crazy people don't wonder if they're crazy. or it's like you like it's like if you were gut checking being like oh my god is this crazy like no i just did something totally crazy it's like what you that's good to do like if she's like oh my gosh i can't believe i'm going to the coffee shop and then he's like wait you stalked me and she's like no i know it was totally crazy i'm sorry i had a crush on you like i get it i totally get it i just wanted to be like that would be a normal way to kind of get through it yeah but i think by her being like i don't want to discuss any further i didn't do anything wrong then it's like oh maybe that is maybe that actually is bad like now that i'm like yeah you can't defend everybody acts morally gray but you can't pretend that it's not exactly well especially because op does say too which this is interesting op didn't even get that she was interested in him because and this is quote from their comment because the level of engagement she showed is just politeness where I'm from.

1:49:03So I took it as politeness. Hmm. Okay. So it's like she really was just kind of being nice and in front of him. Yeah. But then I'm like, girl, why didn't you just ask him out? Yeah. On some level, you have to just kind of bite the bullet and be like, hey. Ask him out versus, you're spending a lot of your time showing up at all these places. We're spending all this money on groceries, on coffee. I know. Damn. Make it at home. Someone does say she was interested in you. Why didn't she ask you out? Some women think that a man has to ask them out and will go through lengths to try to plant the seed in their heads.

1:49:41It's 2026. Women are allowed to ask men out too, lol. I prefer that she'd take initiative rather than try to manufacture some scheme to get me to ask her out. That's happened to me multiple times as an adult and it feels childish every time. So good note for those out there. Yeah. Just shoot your shot. Shoot your shot. Don't stalk. Don't stalk. Shoot your shot. And that's merch. Like, okay. But I do think like there is a lot of comments pointing out like if gender roles were reversed, people would tell you to run. And, you know, hey, there's a lot of validity in that too. I think also, again, it's up to him.

1:50:21If he feels weird about it, then he feels weird about it. You know, we're not in this situation. So I could be like, he's writing the situation in a way that, you know, he was never into it. But also it's, if he was just like, no, I got a weird feeling by it. And it actually made me recontextualize some things and it felt a little strange. Then that's strange to you. And you either have to work it out or you have to leave the relationship. And I, you know, respect to that. What would you do if you found out your wife had done this? I wouldn't be that surprised. No, I think I just, I mean, my wife is like, you know.

1:50:52How did you meet? We met at a party organically or so I thought. but no we actually met it's a good example of like go to the party it was a party that I was not going to go to and I'm like you know what it's Friday I'd moved to LA not that long ago and I went and it was a friend of mine from high school's roommate's birthday oh my god like such a mutual and I was like oh yeah I guess I'll go to that and then I was there for an hour and I was like I'm kind of tired I want to go home and I was like you know what I don't know that many people let me stay for one more hour and then I met her and then we like, you know, within two weeks we're dating each other.

1:51:29And then I moved in after three months and you know, Oh my gosh, you, yeah, you knew. I know. Well, it was three months thing is funny. Cause I was like, I also was, we were both unemployed and like didn't have any money. So we were like, I mean, I can move in. I wasn't on a lease or anything. I was like, let me just move in. And she was like, that's great. Like we like clearly love each other, but like, if this doesn't work out, I guess you just leave, you know? So it was like, there wasn't that much wrapped up in it. I didn't have any stuff. I, you know, you really just came out here on a hope and a hope and a dream yeah I because I was working at BuzzFeed when I first moved out to LA and then I got laid off and was like like my program ended and I didn't get rehired so I was like all right well I guess I'll fall in love and then I did that's magical yeah I don't know what I would think I guess if it was these specific examples I'd just be like ah I get it I'm really cute.

1:52:17He tried. But if it was like following me in a car and sitting in a bush. Yeah. Like now I'm like, I'm married. I'm in it seven years deep. Like, but even if I found out when I was engaged, I don't know. I don't know how I would feel. It's just like. Yeah. You'd have to have been, I think in my mind, no one detail could recontextualize the entire breadth of our relationship. So I think it'd be like, oh, that's kind of weird. But like, I don't think I would be like, oh my gosh, my reality is shattering. Like every single thing about you, I don't know is true. And it's like, you would really have to be a sociopath, like a complete sociopath or psychopath to have, you know, we have so much time together that nothing could recontextualize all of it.

1:53:03But I also, I think my wife is like insane in the best way. I think I'd just be like, oh yeah, that makes sense. I'm so curious what all of you think out there. Would you even consider this stalking. Like I I'm like, I'm so curious if this is even stalking. I'm not invalidating OP's feelings, but I'm so, I need all your thoughts on this one. And, and all of these stories today. I mean, the cabin story was like bringing me flashbacks from a story I've had years ago about someone who was like, am I wrong for not letting my husband bring our baby to an off-grid cabin? And there were bats there, but it was his child and he still, it was a whole thing.

1:53:40so I'm like I'm having a lot of flashbacks today I know you're gonna have hot thoughts in the comments so let me see him let me see those hot thotties in the comments let me see him Miles thank you so much for being here thank you so much for having me Morgan where can people find you people can listen to my podcast Perfect Person you can start with Morgan's episode Morgan was a very lovely guest and you can check my YouTube channel where I make all sorts of different types of content but right now we're making a series called Graveyard Shift where we review 24 hour restaurants after midnight and we interview the patrons and staff and we eat the food and it's very kind of vibey and night shifty.

1:54:14Can I volunteer? Please? Oh my gosh, I would love to have you on. I literally, I just want to go eat a pancake. Are you a night owl? Yeah. Oh, then you'd be perfect. Yeah. We start shooting at usually like around 12 and then we go to three in the morning. Those are my best hours. That's literally when I shine. We'll have to have you on. It'll be so fun, but I will link that episode. Angela, our good friend Angela has also been on a lot of the Smosh crew, so you guys will definitely love it. I'll put all of Miles' links in the description. other than that until next time guys bye bye bye

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