Baby Formula 101: Ingredients to look for & avoid, how it’s regulated & letting go of feeding guilt

0:00Welcome back to another episode of Two Parents in a Podcast. Today is probably going to be one of our most beneficial episodes. No pressure. Yeah, no pressure at all. We have the CEO of Bobbi, Laura Claire Modi, but we just can call her Laura, right? Yes, Laura's good. We're so thrilled to have you. We wanted to have you on for a very long time. And so I'm so happy that we finally made it happen in the great city of New York. Oh, delighted to be here. Thank you for coming. I'm going to read your actual, your formal intro. Okay. Okay. She is the co-founder and CEO of Bobby, a mom founded and mom led infant formula company inspired by her own feeding journey, which I figured it would be where we want to hear that story.

0:41Her goal is to build trust in formula by raising the bar on ingredient safety and standards in the U S to meet and surpass the European formulas that parents were secretly importing. Love it. love it I think one thing that parents do when they find out that they're pregnant is they do what we did and they start to google formulas they start to realize okay there's a whole bunch of stigmas out there on formulas there's a whole bunch of questions what if I can't breastfeed what if it mentally wrecks me what if I need formula and then therein lies the parental journey that we see so many of our friends go down you probably went down and we went down yeah yeah I mean I

1:20Laura Modi:I actually, I remember calling it like my mini PhD. I'd be like, it was two in the morning. I'm under the sheets. I'm like Googling these random ingredients. I found myself like deep on the web. And just, it was like feeling guilty and then being educated and just learning everything about the product and industry. So tell us the inception story of how from that moment to then starting Bobby. Why? What happened? I always joke. I never, I never grew up dreaming of starting a powdered milk company. Like this was not part of the agenda ever. And I had my daughter and I just, I wanted a breastfeed.

1:59Laura Modi:It was something I just assumed I could do, that my body could do. I think I grew up where my grandmother who breastfed her 13 kids, my mom breastfed her kids. I just, there was just this natural assumption I could do it. Totally. And I never, you probably remember this, but you don't get pregnant and then go, well what happens if that thing I want to do doesn't work yeah it's like an immediate shock to the system so when I did have her and I got mastitis which oh the cringe you can like I mean my nipples are hurting just thinking about it it's it's that infection that prevents you from being able to get all the breast milk you need and I found myself in a pharmacy choosing a product that I just didn't feel comfortable feeding her and then it led me on my mini phd so yeah entirely inspired by my daughter who now is trying to claim part of the business good for her she says she's like mom i'm really the founder as she should you are there you go yeah she can have her equity piece yeah i think that's that's you raised a smart one um okay she's irish if we're wondering like i'm always listening to podcasts being like what's the accent so we'll get that out of the way now um okay so from this if you're a new parent who's brand new to formula what's the simplest way to explain what formula actually is and how it's designed to mimic breast milk oh okay most simplistic okay is breast milk is made up of carbs proteins and fats okay and your formula needs to mimic the output of carbs proteins and fats um the word mimic is really important because it is designed to mimic it but it is not designed to be the same.

3:43Laura Modi:And for multiple reasons. Breast milk is dynamic and personal and different. Like your breast milk will be different to mine. Your breast milk on day one is going to be different to your breast milk on day 30. The colors are different. The colors are different. So, you know, I think it's really important that sometimes in the same sentence or the same breath, there's this question of how are they the same? How are they different? And actually, that's not the question. They're very different. They're two different products. And formula probably will never get as close to the dynamism and difference to breast milk.

4:20Laura Modi:All that said, it doesn't make it any lesser, which is very important. Yes, that's very important. Can you keep going on why it doesn't make it any lesser? Because it's fundamentally different, but it provides the same nutrient output that breast milk does. so while maybe the ingredient makeup and how dynamic it is is different your baby's still getting the carbs proteins and fats to develop and thrive okay because that's that's the biggest problem i think in question that parents have always always is that so let's go to ingredient labels because those feel overwhelming so what are the top three things parents should actually look for on the back of a formula can okay we'll go with carbs proteins and fats again okay carbs you want to find something without processed sugar, without corn syrup, without corn syrup solids.

5:06Laura Modi:Look for lactose. Lactose is the natural milk sugar that's found in breast milk. Actually, our breast milk is 50 % made up of lactose. Okay. Which is wild. I mean, I think for a lot of people they grow up thinking, oh, lactose isn't something you can tolerate. Actually, it's the majority of your breast milk. So you want to look for lactose. Okay. The other one is you want to look for something that's more whey dominant which means the protein whey which again is the dominant protein in in breast milk you want more whey and the last one is i would look for really good brain oils sort of like bringing this down what are the omega-3s omega-6s that you're getting you want dha okay and so you know this is one of the biggest differences in european and u.s formulas in europe It is mandated that you have DHA in infant formula.

6:00Laura Modi:And we're still waiting for the standards in the U.S. to catch up. When you go to look for ingredients in formula, what are the top three things you should avoid? Okay, back to our basics again. Avoid processed sugars like corn syrup. Try and look for 100 % lactose. By the way, that might be hard for certain sensitive formulas. So making sure we don't also discriminate. Okay. The other one is palm oil. Palm oil can lead to constipation. It can lead a baby to feeling uncomfortable. So I'd avoid that. And the other thing I would just avoid is avoid any formulas where there isn't a level of transparency into something like the way to casein mix, which is just the protein mix or some of the supply chain.

6:49Laura Modi:so even though on the surface you're going to turn around two cans and you're going to go technically look the same part of is you want to see a level of transparency into where the ingredients come from so a lot of parents wonder why formula ingredients can look so similar but cost so different high and low end right so what actually sets higher priced formulas apart okay i'm going to say something maybe this is controversial as the ceo of this formula company But at the end of the day, affordability and accessibility for the formula that works for you is the most important. So just to be very, very clear, yes, prices based on different choices are out there.

7:29Laura Modi:That does not mean that a lower price formula is any lesser than. Important to hear from you. Very important. And I will repeat that over and over again. And again, accessibility and affordability for something that is the sole nutrition is really, really important. And we need to offer choice. And that choice comes on a spectrum of different options. For us, we came into this and said that organic supply chain being USD Organic certified was really important. for certain ingredients let's use two of the main ingredients in formula that are organic are about five times the cost to source wow five times the cost to source what it does though it gives us that guarantee of being pesticide free non-gmo it comes with the certification that allows us to go this is meeting the standards of the formula that we want to create right but again i want to be really clear and i'm sure a lot of listeners i know i have this for certain choices of food where i'm like definitely organic couldn't care less right so it is really really important to to nuance that and also no one should be judged whether they choose something higher on the spectrum because their choice is that quality of ingredient versus not and i i've i'm glad you're saying that i do think though it is important to just okay you're doing organic which is why it's more correct so i do because there is the question of well the price the price Hashtag is more.

8:55So what does that mean? So thank you for clarifying.

8:57Laura Modi:And what comes with that is a certain level of confidence around the quality check marks that come with it. And every parent will choose what they want on that spectrum. If you're a last minute shopper like me, you know the feelings. The shelves are empties and you're running low on ideas. But Aura Frames is the solution you need with the gift that feels personal. It's the gift that keeps on giving. If you have somebody on your list who you're like, I don't know what to get them. They have everything. Aura Frames is perfect. It's the digital picture frame that sits on the counter and it shuffles through photos.

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10:07This deal is exclusive to our listeners and frames sell out fast, so order yours now to get it in time for the holidays. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. I think it would be really interesting to hear about the FDA's role in the formula industry, how that differs from other parts of the food industry. And I think we hear a lot about the FDA not updating their guidelines in X many years. I think that probably speaks to why you've seen so new age formulas like Bobby come to market. And then I think that would be really interesting to hear as to what you think the Bobby formula would look like on the most updated guidelines based off all the things we've learned about what are the best ingredients that we should be putting in our bodies.

10:59Yeah, because I think a lot of parents, they understand that the FDA, like I think we have a basic understanding that like us versus Europe is very different. I think that's frustrating, but I don't think we get it. So can you explain it? But it's also like my business versus your business. the FDA plays a totally different role. I'm in the snack business.

11:17Laura Modi:Yeah, yeah. Right. Oh, I'd love to be in the snack business. Okay, FDA. FDA is food and drug. Yep, okay. In its most simplistic fashion. Honestly, we needed to know that because I was like, what is it? Food and drugs. So think about a spectrum. You got food on one side, you got drugs on the other. Drugs, heavily regulated. Food, hardly not regulated at all by the FDA. Infant formula is right in the middle. And it's in its own category because it needs to be regulated, meaning approved to be in market and approved to meet the nutrient requirements that is required for a thriving baby consuming this as the sole nutrition.

11:54Laura Modi:But it's not as strict as drugs because at the end of the day, it's actually just food. So hence, it sort of lives in its own category, which is a really important distinction. Why it's also very important is you don't see many companies entering the space, let's say like the food industry, because to enter it, you have to get approval. You have to be able to meet all of the requirements from nutrients to safety to manufacturing requirements just to enter the market. So again, right in the middle, and you're not just regulated once, you're regulated on an ongoing basis. So the FDA will do their surprise visits, they'll show up to your facility, they'll make sure you're meeting it on an ongoing basis.

12:37Laura Modi:And I say this all the time, there's sometimes like a negative connotation sometimes to the FDA. But thank God the FDA exists, especially for regulating an important food like this. So critical. So that's the difference between snacks over here and infant formula right in the middle. Okay. Second part question was, oh, the difference, European FDA. Yeah, and do you wish ours would update? Yeah. So here's one fundamental difference. on like on the updating. Correct. That's the last time things were updated, so on and so forth. So I want to distinguish two things, which is the first is that the FDA sets certain standards and those are minimum requirements.

13:21Laura Modi:But that doesn't necessarily mean that companies aren't going beyond those minimums. So two very different things. For example, Bobby, we meet the European nutritional standards, but we also meet the minimum FDA requirements. Okay. Which is an important distinction. So let's bring you through the history of it. The FDA sets what they call their like nutrient requirements for infant formula. And they say, hey, iron levels, levels of protein, what does the recipe need to look like for all the vitamins and minerals? I believe there's 33 requirements you need to hit. And they set those. And then companies need to make sure that they meet that minimum.

14:05Laura Modi:The last time they meaningfully updated that was in the early 90s. What? That's too long? Well, I think one could push back and say science has evolved. And over the course of the last few decades, we've come to learn that something like DHA is important for a baby's cognitive development, their brain development. so one should argue that shouldn't these regulations be updated to now require DHA and that's different from a company let's say like Bobby that says even though it's not written in the rules we're still going to add it right so that in comparison to let's say in the EU they mandate that those minimums are being put in place and the last time they updated them was in 2019.

14:57In Europe?

14:58Laura Modi:In Europe. So then at every price point formulas have DHA over there? Yes, they do. Because they have to. Because they have to. And what does the process look like in terms of the approval of adding ingredients like DHA, but then swapping out potential ingredients, which I feel like we don't see much of, and maybe a good foray into seed oils. Ooh, a good foray in. Look, I think there's sometimes a myth that formulas are radically different in different countries. And I think what's unfortunate is US formula has almost created, there's this, again, myth that it is lesser than others globally. And that is just fundamentally not true.

15:48Okay, good. Then that's what we want to hear.

15:50Laura Modi:It really isn't. But because the standards themselves haven't been updated, that then gets perpetrated back into the product belief, which again is not true. So you want to distinguish those two things as being different. So let's talk about ingredients being taken out. You only want to take ingredients out or trade them off when you know you can still meet the output required for the carbs, proteins and fats. And when you look at the use of seed oils today, and let me just repeat this, every infant formula globally has seed oils in it. Okay, we're going to talk about this. Every single one of them.

16:31Laura Modi:And why? Because it has sort of the fatty acid blend that matches that of breast milk. And actually it's very hard to find another combination that can get you that output. So it's not just because seed oils are the one that's available or the seed oils are the ones that are cheaper. It's because it actually is. The mix of those oils together gets you the linoleic, bringing this down, fatty acid profile that matches breast milk. So it is really important for a baby's development to have that mix. There it is. I'm coming at this and I think we're coming at this very much the way you came at this.

17:14You know, you under the covers Googling. It's just very confusing. So I think it is really comforting to hear that globally seed oils are the standard. But I think this is the great time to dive into seed oils because it just feels like they've been villainized. They have. over the past couple years. And so why do you think that is? Okay.

17:44Laura Modi:So no ingredient should be treated equal either, right? Totally agree. So I'll give you an example of when we realized that the recipe that we have required seed oils, we went on the absolute mission to find the best seed oils. How they are farmed, processed, manufactured, is more important, almost more important than the ingredient itself. So for example, expeller pressed seed oils that is not as efficient, more costly, takes away the toxins as compared to maybe hexane expressed. And that is a faster way to extract the oil from the seed. so again in its simplest way the oil has to come from somewhere but is it coming from a family run farm who uses expeller press processing to get the ingredient or is it coming from a large batch a very efficient run system that uses hexane very important differences one of which may cause inflammation and gets a negative rap the other of which is purely just giving you the output you want now what a consumer barely goes into is you're not going down into chat gbt and going what is the um way of processing these oils that this company uses and actually for the most part companies aren't talking about this either right which is another piece of it um over the last year and especially with my own knowledge going deeper on this and how obsessed I mean, we are truly besotted with getting into the farming, the processing, who are we sourcing and getting the supply from.

19:33Laura Modi:And we're now looking at this going, actually, we think parents care about that, too. So we should be talking about it more. I think they do care about it. I've been impressed with the conversations I have with my friends about how they go about picking a formula. Interesting. So I'm very, and I do think that seed oils right now are the main conversation starter. They start with, what about these seed oils? So if I'm a parent and I say, okay, I'm going to choose a formula. And then you, so then what we should look at, we say seed oils need to be in there, actually. Today it does. Today, seed oils need to be in there.

20:09I already feel better. Okay, great, because they are in there, so I'm less frustrated. But now we need to look at the way that seed oils are made, produced, extracted. Extracted. Okay. Okay. And where do you get yours?

20:22Laura Modi:So what do you do? Yeah, well, we get it from a fifth generation Northern California family. And we visit the supplier. We see how they process them. It is more inefficient and it does cost more. But it gives us confidence that we're not using toxins or chemicals to get the oil out. But also, there's the other thing I would say, because I'm also like a four-time mom. I'm also under the belief that it is the job of the company and the brand to take that burden away. Like I should be losing sleep over producing the safest, cleanest, highest quality formula. So you don't have to be up asking Claude or ChatGBT in the middle of the night.

21:05Laura Modi:But there is a relationship you need to build for you to get that confidence. But I would like to believe that over time, consumers can gain that confidence through a sort of a faster, I can read the label. Or I go to the website quickly and consume it versus having to study. Well, I do think that this is why actually you doing podcasts and doing things, getting the information out there is important because then we can relax. Like we don't know what we don't know. And it's hard. You've got a million other things. So then you're researching formulas and it's a bit like deflating and like frustrating.

21:40Right. And so you turned in influencer or you turned to somebody that's just like, Hey, it's this one. And this is why, you know, like in formula is good. And here's why. And we're a big proponent that formula is great. Fed is best. That's our thing. Like I did breastfeed, but we were talking about it last night. It was mental warfare at some points, right?

21:56Laura Modi:Yeah. And it's hard on your body. And so to be able to say at this point formula has come this far, I think is amazing for moms. Huge. Huge. As the observer in the room, watching the way your mental health changed at the six month mark when you started combo feeding, it was a drastic difference. There are so many options on Masterclass to truly better your life. If there's a hobby you want to take on, if there's a new specialty you want to take on, Masterclass has it all. And it is a great gift to give to a friend, a family, or a loved one. And they'll really appreciate you giving them the gift that keeps on giving of knowledge and information, you guys.

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25:03Laura Modi:Oh, observant. Yeah. So what does that mean? Do you think, and that may be a good parlay into the question of if we saw updated regulations based off the latest science, what would Bobby's ingredient panel look like? Would it include seed oils? Yeah. Look, I would love to get to the place, love to get to the place where we can provide that nutrient mix output without having to use seed oils. So you should be in a position of constantly looking to innovate and evolve. As of today, that combination has not been studied enough to be able to say it definitely provides it. And we shouldn't be putting something casually into market that hasn't been properly studied.

25:49Laura Modi:I'm certainly on a mission to figure it out. And what do you think that could be? Probably a mix of different oils like olive oil, avocado oil, probably still a use of maybe, I mean, coconut oil will play a big role in it. But again, for our scientists to figure this out, this is, if you look at the history of infant formula and where it started to where it is today, it's evolved tremendously. There's been a lot of different ingredient changes. I mean, even again, sort of the use of bringing lactose in and taking corn syrup out. So I would never put a stake in the ground and say, we're not going to continue to see changes.

26:28Laura Modi:I think we have to. But one other thing I would say is, but no parent today should be buying themselves formula going, God, I wish I had my baby in four years. Like what they're buying today is perfectly safe. And it will provide all the nutrient output for your child. and you don't have to look at your first kid versus your fifth kid and go, you know, they got one thing that's better. I think that's where you start to play into the mental piece of it. And today's formula is perfectly great for your child. It's really reassuring to hear. I have one last question on this subject because I'm very interested and I think the listener will be.