Newborn hot takes (vaccines, formula vs. breastfeeding & visitors in the first week)

0:29This episode is brought to you by Ferrero. To put that angry ball of fire on mute. Columbia's OmniShade technology is engineered to protect you from the sun's harsh rays that can burn and damage your skin. The sun is relentless, but so is our gear. Level up your summer at Columbia.com to spend more time outside and less time slathering on aloe lotion. You're welcome. Columbia. Engineered for whatever. I think we may mix it up a little bit this week. I may start Bicker of the Week off the top. Oh. Because we have a live, a live Bic, or when I mean live, in the past 12 hours. What is that? I forgot.

1:07One of the most wild pre-bedtime moves. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay, wait. Start the episode, H. Start it so you can. No, no, you start it. What do I say again, Jules? No. I'll give you each time. Welcome back. To another episode. Of Two Parents and a Podcast. Okay, I'm down to tag team it with you. I feel like that wasn't official enough. Welcome back to another episode of Two Parents and a Podcast. okay you're you're officially your wheels are turning go so uh over over we've historically been like independent tv show bedtime people like we've operated on our own worlds pre-bedtime but in the past i like i guess super hold on and this is actually a bit of a mind blow we've never really watched a show together we watched short series together um the one where All Her Fault we watched together and then we watched Heated Rivalry together and then we watched the one that was around All Her Fault, the other one.

2:03But like maybe four or five shows at an aggregate we watched together as a couple. And not for bed. And now what I'm getting to - And not for bed, correct. Because I'm kind of registering all this real time is none of those are really pre-bed time. So the new routine that we're in is watching a show together pre-bed yeah it's really fun and paradise is we is we just finished and it's so good so we should probably do a bit of a paradise debrief but then we've moved on to the second season of your friends and neighbors your friends and neighbors thank you very much and what i realized in paradise is one thing that you do that is just like, I need to know if I'm out of the norm or you're out of the norm is with how like sometime between halfway through the episode or like, there'll be eight minutes left to 12 minutes left.

2:57You'll just hit the, you'll just turn the TV off and say, all right, time to go to bed. And you don't finish the episode before we go to bed, You go to bed mid-episode and the difference is I'll fall asleep in the middle of an episode, but you'll just – you'll pull the ripcord halfway through. Like is that – that can't be the norm. So I think that the overwhelming majority are going to chime in and say that's like serial killer behavior. But here's what you have to understand. My insomnia is like so bad right now that I'm afraid of bedtime. OK, so when I start to get tired and like I'm like, oh, I think I could fall asleep.

3:36I have to pause everything. It has to go dark and I have to go to bed. And so is this a pregnancy thing or like in, let's say, eight weeks when we restart our next show? Is are you going to are you going to is this going to continue? No, I I'm maybe I this is what I don't love. the problem with getting to the end of an episode is they bait you to where you have to watch the next episode and then you're up until 2 a.m so stopping it in the middle is like you're not tempted to keep going it's funny i'm actually on board for this and and paradise is the best example of it because that was just cliffhanger after cliffhanger you have you're like i have to see what happens next and so i i'm actually on board with this behavior i just it it blew my mind when I processed what was going on.

4:25Yeah, I'm not afraid to stop it in the middle. I just, I think it's the best time to stop it. And when I get tired, I like to stop it. What time are you watching this bedtime show at? We start at nine. Like, I think that that's even the weirdest behavior is like watching a new, a net new show to go to bed. I would never watch something new for the first time to go to bed. When would you watch it? There's no other time during the day. I guess it's a little different. You guys are parents, but like a seven 30 after Tate goes to bed is probably when i would watch like a new show and then i'd throw on like a friend but i would agree i would agree 7 30 to 9 is a new show slot and then post 9 is brainless tv watching that's when you go right to the reality tv but i think what i think jules has to account for is our five to seven is not for us or our take us to bed at eight now so our five to eight is now dedicated to park food and so some activity like there's no you time from eight to nine is now kind of like admin like take us to bed at eight from eight to nine we have admin admin like clean up organization we're cleaning you're con because they're just they're messes and then at nine is is when we're finally putting our feet up and it's crazy i know i know who would have thought But let's do, should we do Paradise recap?

5:46No, I have another bicker of the week that I'd like to submit into the jury. Well, you're always right right now. Correct. So we have fruit flies. Harrison thinks everybody has fruit flies. I don't. Do you guys have fruit flies? I think everyone in, it's so buggy in Texas. So they're both nodding. And it's been raining for like. The rain I think is a bit because I have these, I have these apple cider vinegar traps everywhere right now. Here's the bicker. Here's the bicker. I think those traps make it worse. I saw you put sugar in the traps. I think you're drawing more of them. I think that you're putting the traps right by the sink.

6:25Well, that's because they come out of the sink. They're killing me. I'm dying. But what the traps are doing is they're keeping them in the sink area. No, they're killing them. The traps are killing them. I think that this is Jules' example of when we do something and we make it worse by doing it. We talked about that on the last episode. Do I? Now I'm remembering this, though. Now that Jules is reminding me that they come out of the sink, which I knew, can't you do something to your drain? What if we get a sink cover? Boiling water. Yeah, not a cover, but you can pour stuff down it. Yes, we're going to do boiling water down the sink.

7:04we are going to get rid of these fruit flies they are driving me absolutely like you weren't invited here why are you coming over to my bread i don't notice them things like that don't bother me they drive me insane like they're and they just they come over to where you are it's just like it's so invasive i have another question yes not a bicker i was just thinking this do you think tate knows your guys's names no no because they're never using when is she going to learn them tate okay i think about this a lot jules tate does not know our first name she just knows that we're mama and dada toddlers don't know their parents first names and what i've realized even more so is tate knows winnie's parents better than she knows most of the planet she does not know what to call them like i will point at them and i'll be like who is that and she'll just be like ah and i'm like you don't know that her name that's the name the the next name that she will clock for us will be whatever winnie calls us and so that will be what she defaults our name to that isn't mama dada but we review names all the time like we got the girl across the street we review her name we're constantly reviewing people on the block's name she knows who lives at houses but then when that person comes outside she doesn't necessarily know like we have a kelsey she doesn't necessarily know if that's kelsey or not she's just gonna to start calling neighbor t neighbor t she getting like she can't like maybe we could call him t but she loves him like she loves him yes like a second father but no she does not know his name yeah i was just thinking about that like when do you learn your parents name it's so cute because right now it's just mama dada mama dada she's been she's in a really cute face okay h you as the driver of the episode need to give the people what we're talking about today okay please give me the rundown what no you give them the rundown you have the ipad well honey do you want it sure okay thank you the one thing i do want to talk about is um i mean i assume what's on the docket is how we're feeling going into baby number two okay so yeah we're talking about feelings into baby two we're giving a little bieber update uh and some other internet drama are we talking about alex and Alex?

9:27I'm not sure. We'll see if we get there. People are calling it Licks versus Lex. I love that. I love the Licks versus Lex. Okay. We are going to talk Night Nurse and some comment stuff. Maybe you can get to some Q &A. There's something at the very bottom that I wanted to talk about which is, oh, the newborn rapid fire. Okay. I loved that. Alright, let's do it. Let's do the newborn rapid fire now. Okay. Quick ad break and if you're like, why are you wearing that shirt? Harrison had, he has a call right now and he needed to be wearing not a tie-dye shirt because it's like a serious call. So I'm now wearing the tie-dye shirt to read the ad.

10:02So same day, but you know, anyways. Okay. Let's talk about Quince, you guys, because everyone's doing a little spring reset right now and I'm doing a maternity meets postpartum reset in my closet. And here's what I'm focusing on. I'm focusing on quality over quantity, building a wardrobe of pieces that are well-made, versatile, and easy to reach for every single day because then, especially as a parent, you just remove the decision-making and you're like, boom, I know that's going to look good. It's timeless and it's well-made and that's where Quince comes in. Quince makes beautiful everyday pieces using premium materials with 100 % European linen, organic cotton, and super soft denim with style starting around$50.

10:42You guys, here's the thing. These things are designer quality, but they don't have the price tag of the designer items. And you might say, how do they do that? They partner direct with factories. So they're able to pass on the savings to you and I. So refresh your wardrobe with Quince. Go to quince.com slash Alex for free shipping and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. Go to quince.com slash Alex for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash Alex. Let me just say this too. I forgot how hard the last week of pregnancy was. And I have a lot of people in my pregnancy class with me that are texting me and we're all due.

11:24I mean, like we're within two days of each other. And we're one thing that we all have in common that we've all forgotten is like, we are so anxious. Like we're so on edge. And the other thing I forgot is the lack of energy. Like you don't have a lot of energy during pregnancy in general but one of my friends like i went to target and i came home and i just started crying because i was so tired and i and i just your body once you have the baby and you get pregnant again you and there's some scientific evidence that people are always dming me your body does you forget and then you get back in it and you get back in that last week and i'm sure i felt this way with tate but i'm feeling it just so the days are every day feels like about a week well you're champ and I'm proud of you but it's just crazy like one of my friends texted me and she was like I am so anxious and I was like thank you for texting me that because having friends when you're pregnant and these do literally within one or two days of you is so helpful because you're feeling the same thing and just to have those feelings validated is like it's just like such a relief you know I'm so glad that that you have a community of support to to help you navigate to help you navigate this.

12:36I didn't have it so much with Tate, but I'm so, because we were moving and I had like my very best friend was pregnant with me, which was amazing, but she didn't live in the same city as me. And like one of the girls that's due literally the day after me lives behind, like directly behind us. So that's been incredible. Okay, hand me back the iPad because I'll do, not that, not that. Oh, sorry, I dropped the iPad. Hold on. I got it. No, no, no, no, no, no. It's okay. okay all right uh rapid fire newborn parenting hot takes okay yes letting a newborn cry it out yes or no it's not for us honey we struggle with this no so so i i think that one of the things i was most surprised about about parenting is how much or how good of a read you can have on your baby and to me her cries are uh not all cries are created equal and there's cries that i'm comfortable with and there's cries that i'm not comfortable with and so to me there really is a line between when i am comfortable letting her cry versus when i'm not comfortable letting her cry within the guise of this specific question if it's like cried out leave her in the room for the night that was a no for us uh but i'm kind of putting a new a bit of a different twist on when your baby cries how do you handle it so so for me letting a newborn cried out is a no because now the internet is very divided on this a lot of people are for the cried out method and i'm good with that i don't care i'm just answering this as me personally i couldn't handle it and i was like we have to go get that baby because she needs us then out of the newborn phase when she could say dad that mama and she was crying I was like I gotta go get her so like I understand if people do this but for us personally answering this question like I don't have the heart for it I can't do it I gotta go pick up that baby yeah I totally misunderstood that question so I'll I'll chime in and say I agree with everything that you just said but we'll add the secondary caveat that not all cries are created equal yes but I at the beginning for us I do want you to remember that i think they were okay um okay co-sleeping in the same bed yes or no

14:59we don't do it if done safely then seems like works for a lot of people so but but but make sure you're doing it safely well i read a statistic it was actually an emily oster piece i think if i'm mistaken on that then i'm sorry but i do believe it was emily oster that said most people are going to their pediatrician lying about whether or not they co-sleep because a lot of people do co-sleep and they just they hear it's bad so they say that they don't co-sleeping is actually can be very very very beneficial and there were a lot of mornings where we would go and get tate and then she would sleep on your chest i don't know if that counts as co-sleeping but we loved doing that but we are way too paranoid to sleep with the baby in our bed but i do want to say if again this is one of those things if people do the co-sleeping I hear a lot of good things about it we're too scared yep and she would sleep on my chest while I was awake correct she would sleep on your chest while you were awake um but that was some of the sweetest like it's a really sweet thing to have them sleep with you it's like really really sweet um okay formula feeding versus breastfeeding I will take this one both is great I like the saying fed is best however we did just interview somebody and they were saying, uh, Kyla and Courtney and their lactation, um, experts.

16:16And they were saying that they don't like the term fed is best because what they like is saying, be educated and be empowered and then make your decision. But I have to say formula versus breast milk, whatever you decide, be proud of your choice because both are beautiful and formulas come such a long way. So I'm, I'm so happy with both of these. I will answer personally, baby number one we were exclusive breast milk for the first six months and then we combo fed baby number two who's coming very soon um i want to do about an 80 20 because doing full breast milk was mentally very hard on me and i pumped just enough but i think formula feeding versus breastfeeding i don't even think there should be a verse i think it should be and and my commentary here is listen to your partner and support them what's your saying shut the fuck up yeah sorry let me re-clare by that because that could have been perceived you shut the fuck up when it comes to breastfeeding it is the guy's it is the guy's responsibility to shut the fuck up and listen and and then be supportive and be supportive i like that kyla said she's gonna put that on the t-shirt i loved it i loved when she said that it was so and here's the thing like formula feeding versus breast it's this is such a hot topic on the internet and i i gotta say like I don't get that.

17:35Just the mom has like a gut instinct of which one she wants to do. Great. I get why it's a hot topic. Why? This is probably a time for me to shut the fuck up. Okay. Listen, like I get why it's a hot topic because you have, you have studies on one end and studies on the other end. And anytime you have, you have a variety of studies about a topic and that is, and they're generally related to health and well-being like you're gonna have both sides get really be very vocal what i would like to see here is us to keep the train on the track with this debate though so let me explain it to you this way i think some people online get so charged at the mom and they're like you didn't try you did your baby a disservice and i'm like no no no no no where i can get behind it and i don't think there's an argument is if you put one drop of breast milk under a microscope and one drop of formula under a microscope, there is no argument that the breast milk has antibodies directly for the baby.

18:39And like, we understand that, right? However, I think the biggest caveat is if you lined up a bunch of five-year-olds, you would not be able to tell who was formula fed versus breast fed. And I think it's important to remember, like take the mom out of the equation and then just look at it from a simple molecule versus molecule. Okay, great. But But I don't know why online has to go so hard at like the mom failed the baby. It's like what on earth? Like, no, that is like so not welcome here. Like, of course, we can acknowledge one is genetically coming from the mom, right? Like made for the baby.

19:16But they're both. They both give you all the nutrients that you need, and they're both really good for you. Let's talk about parallel, you guys, because in my first pregnancy, I had to research everything. thing and I found out that most prenatals aren't created equal. But here's the thing, parallel past every test I threw at them. They're OBGYN founded, third party tested, clean label project winner. And here's the thing, I was sold and you will be too. Parallel changes as your pregnancy changes. So here's the thing, there's a separate pack for trying to conceive, egg freezing, first trimester, second trimester, third trimester, and postpartum because your body is different in all of those stages so it needs something different for example in the first trimester you get a premium prenatal and extra b6 plus ginger for the nausea because let me tell you what most of the time in the first trimester you're gonna have a little bit of nausea in your third trimester you get a premium prenatal and probiotics to support mom's gut health and baby's microbiome develop here's the best part about it they come in little packs like this if If you're listening to me, I'm holding like a little, it just looks like a little packet.

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21:02Okay, vaccinating on schedule. Yes or no? Smash or pass?

21:10This is, so we've followed the vaccine schedule. And so we need to start with that. What I'll say is I'm very upset with the medical community right now. And upset actually probably isn't the right word. It's more so confused. And the reason why I'm confused is because when Tate was born, we were told by a pediatrician, by everyone, when it comes to the vaccine schedule, you follow the CDC guidelines. Correct. Right? That was what was pushed on us with our pediatrician. We were told we didn't have a choice. We were told if we're going to be part of their program that we follow the CDC's guidelines.

21:56And I have texts showing this. Yes, correct. Now, the CDC goes and they change their guidelines. In January, they updated them. They updated them. And a lot of doctors came out and said, well, we don't like these new updates. We don't like the supporting evidence behind these updates or the lack thereof. And so we're going to stick with the AAP's schedule. And historically, the AAP... American Academy of Pediatrics. And the CDC had the same recommended schedule. Where it got really confusing for us is we weren't told when Tate was born to follow the AAP. we're explicitly told to follow the cdc and so now you're saying to follow the aap and take 15 months old and they're just like we don't do the cdc anymore now we're the aap it's like like socially they were just calling it the seat like i think that then they should have said i know this we followed the cdc and the aap's recommended guidelines they used the cdc as the source of truth.

23:02And this is very wide and broad based. So to be clear, our stance on the matter, we are now following the AAP's recommended schedule for vaccines. It is upsetting to me to jump from one source of truth to another, the way in which we did and the way in which it was explained. So the way it boils down to me in my head is yes, Tate is up to date on all of her vaccines and will remain that way. However, it is frustrating as a parent because there's a lot of discourse online about vaccines cause X. You shouldn't vaccinate because of Y. My kid was vaccinated and this happened. And that it gets, it's fear-mongering and it gets in your head and it really scares you.

23:52So then you say, well, where do I go to find my information? And then you go to the CDC and the CDC switches. And so you're just chasing your tail. But what it boils down to that we've learned through interviewing people is people that the people that don't vaccinate are loud, but they're not a large percent of them, which I do find a lot of comfort in because like we eradicated polio. So like, I just would like to keep it that way. And having kids that are vaccinated, I think is just the safest, best way. And like with our limited medical knowledge, Like that's just what we're doing. Yeah. Yeah.

24:25There's, there's no doubt. I, yeah, I, I don't, I don't think I have anything else. Chase from the secret lives of Mormon wives. Okay. I don't know. I didn't, I haven't, I've only watched the first season, so I think he's a polarizing guy. Right. But one of his videos did come across my desk and he was like, um, cause I think that maybe Ozempic and trizeptite are very popular in Utah. Okay. And he was like, listen, I, you know, and I think maybe not vaccinating is also very popular in Utah. And he had a really fun video. It was a great one. He was like, Hey, listen, moms, I'm all for you guys looking good, but this stuff, it's not regulated by the FDA and you're just taking needles and jabbing it.

25:11But then when it comes to your kids, you're like no vaccines. And he's like, and we got rid of a lot of diseases, but here we are. We're just putting in the ocean. And I thought it was like the funniest video ever because he had like a point. He had a bit of a point to that. Yeah. And that really does land. Like when we look at all the stuff that we put into our bodies and then inherently this stuff that has a whole heap of testing behind it gets a tremendous amount of pushback. And that's why inherently we have followed it from day one. I'm just saying when one government organization changes their recommendation, the way in which they work together was very disappointing to me and I think left parents very confused.

25:58And I think there's still a lot of education that needs to happen on delineating between what course of action parents should be going down. It's also scary when they come over to vaccinate your kid. Well, our pediatrician comes to our house. But when you so that's why I say when they come over. But when you go to the doctor's office or they come over and you're about to vaccinate your kid and you see this needle, but it's like your most precious thing on the planet and there's nothing you care about more. You say, of course, I'm going to I'm of course, I'm going to vaccinate my kid, of course.

26:32And then it comes time to do it. And you do start to second guess yourself. Like, did I research this as much as I possibly could? It's really scary. Like what's going to happen? And so the online discourse behind it, it's super scary. But it's, I think what like to get a little more. So is getting polio. To get a little more tactical with it. Like I relied on the CDC to be my source of truth. That gets pulled away. I'm told by a whole bunch of people to go AP. And so I felt like what we then needed to do was find a doctor who was our source of truth. And who aggregated the information. Who actually understood the science.

27:09And so what our source of truth has become is Dr. Ari Brown. And so why we went with the AAP over the CDC is because we trust her and she told us to do that. And so I think it's a really unique dynamic where like the source of truth has gone now uniquely to an individual for us personally. but I think that's why it's important like we can't find the information online because we don't know like you and I are so far from medically trained and that's her profession so like I do think you have to find somebody that you value and trust and then go with them and for us that is her and we're lucky to have her totally and what I'll the last thing I'll say is without Dr.

27:59Brown, I have no idea what we would have done on the CDC versus AP thing. Because I was so confused. That was confusing and frustrating. Okay. Sleep training before four months. Yes or no? I'll go first. No for me. I think it's a little early. I don't think they know what's going on. They've been in the womb for nine, 10 months, and then they come out and we're like training them into sleeping somehow doesn't fit for me. But I will say I don't fundamentally have a problem with it. If a friend's doing it, do your thing 21. But for me, I just think those are the newborn trenches and I'm good to ride those out.

28:40Coming into Tate, I think that we expected we would sleep train and then we pivoted on that hard and decided not to. Obviously dabbled with the 5, 10, 15, but didn't take it any further than that. I think a lot of that was also luck and how quickly she did go to sleep and how quickly she took to the snoo. What I will say when it comes to baby two, like while we are so adamant that like we won't sleep train it, a lot of what this comes back to, to me is like feeling out your kid. And so I am very curious as to what's going to happen, like when he comes and how we're going to feel about, about leaving him in the crib.

29:19And is it like five minutes is too much or do we feel comfortable leaving him in there for 30 minutes? Because I feel like if he's kind of in there and making like some small little noises, it's very different than if he's in there and he's like frantic. And so like what I've learned with parenting, one of my big takeaways, you know, and it starts from, from, from the pregnant, from the, uh, becoming pregnant to the pregnancy journey to raising the kids is how different everyone's experience is. And so I do think with a lot of these things, like I do want, there's a lot of them to look at on a case by case basis.

29:58Like obviously there's the black and whites of like, we're not going to spank our kids. Correct. But then I think there are the case-by-case matters, and I think the SLEEP program is one of those. I do want to say this, actually, also. I agree with everything you just said. We're big on case-by-case basis. Two of our friends asked us the other day. They said, hey, we want all your advice on parenting a newborn. And I loved Harrison's answer. He was like, we don't have any. You will be able to figure it out. You have to do things on your own. Yeah, we can recommend which stroller we liked the most, But like other than that, parents' intuition is the best, I think.

30:39Emily Oster's like number one suggestion for parents is trust yourself. Trust yourself. But I want to say this about the sleep training thing. Which is like – sorry. No. Yep. Well, on the sleep training, I do want to say this. We cannot answer this in the first four months without caveating we had a night nurse with Tate. And we're going to have a night nurse with this little guy. our first night nurse her name was Stacy and I loved her to death and the only reason we're not using her again was because she moved and she was she did have a method she was doing I don't exactly know what it was because we were in a complete fog I do think she by the time she had left Tate was sleeping six seven hours she would try to She would do these stretches with her.

31:27So Stacey did have a bit of a method going on there. I don't want to call it sleep training, but she was doing something other than just putting her in the snooze, taking her out when she was crying. I have a question. Yeah. Will Tate wake up when the baby's crying, or is she just out of the world when she's sleeping? So we have such a good case study on this, because Winnie sleeps in later than Tate, but wakes up from her nap earlier than Tate. Tate sleeps right through it. And when he sleeps in the baby boy's crib right now. So they sleep the exact distance apart. I don't think it'll like, Tate can sleep through when she, these babies, that's where the term, so there's this funny thing online going through is just like, I slept like a baby last night, which is like woke up every two hours and cried.

32:18The other side of that is when they are sleeping, she's knocked out. So I don't think she'll wake up. Do you? I don't think so at all. No, I don't think so. Okay. Visitors in the first week of having a newborn, yes or no? Open door invite to family. Non-family needs to wait on the invitation. I agree with this. I think that visitors in the first week in the form of family is one of the most beautiful circle of life moments. It's joyous for them. And I love that. I love that moment. And like, and it does take a village because you think we're going to bring the baby home and they're just going to sleep.

33:05No, I remember when Harris and I first walked in the door with Tate, we looked at each other. We had the dock at us sitting there and we just stared at each other. And we were like, what do we do now? Then you, then, you know, the baby's hungry. Mom's trying to figure out the milk situation if she's pumping or breastfeeding. Then mom's hungry and then dad's hungry. I mean, it just goes so fast. So having family there, one, they want to be there, two, it's a beautiful thing. When it comes – second baby is different for me than first baby. Second baby, I would like to think I'm going to be like, come over if you want to.

33:35I know some people have like a germ issue. They're worried about that, but I don't know, not so much. I think that from a friend perspective, it's on the friends to wait to be invited over. 100%. Versus to say like, hey, can I come see the baby? Or when can I come, just like we will tell you. Yeah, I think the when can I come see the baby text is probably okay to send like, what, two weeks after the fact? Totally. But yeah, I think as a friend, you're in sit-by mode. Fully aligned. And I'll say one great move that does happen the week of that I encourage people to do is when you get a text the week of being like, hey, if there's anything I can help with this week, we're around.

34:22Let me know. It's a really, really nice text because like chances are you're never going to be taken up on it. And anyone who sent that type of text into it, like they definitely hold a special place with me. I, and I have to say this about my friends this week. Guys as well. Yes. I'm talking about guys texting me. Like even some of your friends, partners. No, our community this week has been so incredible. Just like, what can I bring you? Dropping off stuff already. Like they've just been the best in the text. And we've got a friend that's giving us a countdown. He texted, he texted a five on Monday.