The 411 on Toddler Discipline: Biting, Boundaries & What Actually Works (w/ Dr. Ari Brown)

19:05Dr. Ari Brown:Or it's frustration or emotional dysregulation. Okay. Okay.

19:09Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:I also, I think with us, what we also see with her, while she doesn't bite, she will hit us, is she does it for reaction. She'll laugh. And so I'll hold her up and like I'll have her by my face and she'll love to like play with my face and grab my face. And part of that will be like hitting and smacking the face. And I've never really known what to do about it because she's doing it, you know, funny enough, in a jolly way. And so understanding like don't give her the reaction in any way. Don't say stop. Either just give her a nice neutral look or put her down and reassess.

19:50Dr. Ari Brown:A lot of behaviors in this age group are to get your attention. So it's a great teaching moment to not get attention for that behavior or to give her a hug so that she sees that you don't. don't want her slapping your face. That's another way of doing it. Or you can be very brief in your words. No hitting. Just keep it short and sweet.

20:16Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:It's nice, though, to know if we're if if someone's listening to this and you've got the toddler that's biting and hitting, right, because they exist. There's there a dime a dozen from what I've gathered from my DMs, right? Just not being like, no, just not outright being like, no, do not do this. You know, Because that's too much and that's too much of a response. And that will ultimately likely drive more of it. Yeah. It's so interesting to know because it's the opposite of what you think you should do. Right. It's what you're telling us.

20:43Dr. Ari Brown:Right. And also to your point, don't laugh. Because sometimes, you know, again, it's so cute.

20:50Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:And she puts her hand in my mouth to try and grab my teeth. It's like the cutest thing ever.

20:54Dr. Ari Brown:But you can't laugh. Yeah. So A, you have to be the grown up. So you don't want to yell because you want them to learn. that's not what yelling is not a good form of communication you don't want your child to yell so you can try not to yell try not to yell act like a grown-up and don't laugh don't laugh

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22:33Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Go to edmunds.com slash appraisal. That's edmunds.com slash appraisal. Is it normal for toddlers to hit themselves?

22:44Dr. Ari Brown:Toddlers do a lot of bizarre things and parents wonder if they're normal and kids will literally bang their head or hit their head when they're feeling frustrated. We do it virtually. They do it in real life. They will also do some other interesting things. Sometimes they'll body rock. Sometimes they'll pick their belly buttons. Like they do some, you know, kind of like we might bite our nails. They can do that as well. These are all kind of bizarre behaviors that are a form of self-calming, which seems in the moment like, Like, oh, my gosh, is my kid going to hurt themselves? And most of the time they don't unless it's accidental.

23:23Dr. Ari Brown:So you just have to be aware that this does end at some point. So if these behaviors continue, that's when you might want to check in. And if there are other behaviors that go along with these kind of bizarro behaviors, you want to check in with your pediatrician.

23:39Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:And what do you do about them in the moment?

23:43Dr. Ari Brown:You put them in a safe place. I mean, the reality is, is they are using their bodies to kind of let go of all that emotion. And so as long as they're doing it in a safe place where they're not going to hurt themselves, it's fine to let them do that. And some kids will do that when they're winding down at night and they'll bang their heads in their, you know, crib or something. And you'll see it on the monitor. So a lot of it is just kind of their way of calming themselves. OK. So doing it in a safe way is OK. So you let them.

24:14Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:You don't need to intervene or anything. You just kind of let them do their thing if they're in a safe area. Yeah. Okay, interesting. So you're saying all these things I wouldn't think you would say. Okay. Is it normal for a toddler to tantrum in public? Wow.

24:29Dr. Ari Brown:Yes. Absolutely. And this is a message to all parents. Every kid has a temper tantrum, and they will do it in public, and other people are not looking at you. they're just really glad it's not their kid do not feel bad do not feel bad so normal and you can predict when a lot of tantrums are predictable you know if your child is tired or hungry or bored that's when you're going to see these outbursts and so as much as you can pre-game it and go okay we're not going to run this third errand because that's going to take my toddler over the edge you know you're going to do yourself a favor because you know that that's their tipping point

25:09Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:And importantly, what do you do when your child is having a tantrum in public? Right. Or in the home, because I assume the way you'd handle it in public, in theory, should be the same way you'd handle it at home.

25:23Dr. Ari Brown:You tell us. So it's important to manage the situation immediately. And if you are in public, that makes it a little bit challenging. So maybe you're going to go into the public bathroom or maybe you're going to step out to your car. Let your child settle down, and then you can attempt to go back to the grocery store and finish your shopping or whatever it is that you're doing. But I would manage it in the moment. I wouldn't ignore it. I wouldn't, you know, buy the candy bar because that's going to help your toddler's tantrum stop. That was the wrong, you know, that's the wrong choice, right? Because then they'll keep having a tantrum because then they're going to get the candy bar every time they go to the store.

26:02Dr. Ari Brown:So you want to make sure that you're choosing wisely when you're having that moment and taking them to a place to calm down. And then you can decide if you're going to resume whatever it was you were going to do. But they need that moment and you need to address it in that moment.

26:16Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:So I feel like there's more to unpack there in terms of actually how it's addressed. And so you see it happening. The goal becomes, okay, let's neutralize this situation by removing them from the place of chaos. So you remove them, whether you take them to another room in the house, whether you take them outside to the car, and then what's the best way to actually calm them that you've seen?

26:42Dr. Ari Brown:So it depends on the child. Some kids just need to let it out, and you can let them let it out because they're out of control, and they just need to explode and let it happen. Some kids really are comforted by physical touch. So you can take some big breaths, help them take Take some big breaths, bring them down to a calmer place. You can whisper or talk really quietly, or sometimes you're just going to hold them silently until they kind of get it back together. So different techniques work for different kids and kids with different temperaments are going to respond differently. So you're going to have to figure out which strategy works.

27:19Dr. Ari Brown:But at the end of the day, you're going to calm them down emotionally and physically, and then you can talk about it.

27:28Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:And that makes a lot of sense. And I guess on the other side, what are the things that you shouldn't be doing, a la buying them the candy bar, trying to put, you know, what's the saying? Duct tape on a... Lipstick? Not... No. Duct tape on a... A band-aid on like a leak? Yeah. What are the things you shouldn't do that may provide a short-term fixture but then come with medium to longer-term consequences?

28:01Dr. Ari Brown:That's a great question. So the candy bar example is a good one. If your child has a tantrum and then to pacify them you buy the candy bar because maybe that's what they're having the tantrum about, then you've just chosen to see that behavior again. so I would not select something to avoid conflict powerful and so never and ultimately what I think

28:25Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:what that ties down to thematically is never reward the tantrum correct don't reward well said good job never reward bad behavior good job okay we're learning reward good behavior try to ignore

28:38Dr. Ari Brown:or not validate the behavior you don't want to see okay and don't meet it with anger I assume Yeah. So remember, you're the grownup.

28:49Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Composure feels like it is the common consistency of parenting.

28:56Dr. Ari Brown:Yeah. Agree. And something that I think needs to be said is none of us are perfect. Totally. And we're going to make mistakes. As parents, we are going to make mistakes. It happens. None of us are perfect. So if you have a less than perfect moment and you yell or you do something that you really wish you could take back, you should apologize or tell your child, I messed up. I'm sorry. Right? But own it because you want your kid to own it, right? Totally. And you're your child's role model.

29:24Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:100%. Okay. Okay, man. I'm just imagining like we haven't had this we go to the store meltdown tantrum moment. Okay, here's a question though. one I know you said no one's looking but I have seen on occasion kids they're on the floor like kicking their legs they just need to get that out like if a toddler is on the floor tantruming leg kicking they look like they're swimming in a pool but it's on the floor do we pick are we would would you pick them up and go outside or would yeah you would and let them just continue yeah

29:56Dr. Ari Brown:I would probably not do that on aisle nine like I would go into the bathroom or go out to the car you know when you're at the restaurant walk outside there are plenty of parents walking around with their toddlers at restaurants that's what they're doing the whole party okay you regain

30:12Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:the composure and then you come back oh man oh Harrison the first time it happens because it's gonna happen um okay what's the number one thing not to do when your toddler is throwing a tantrum

30:24Dr. Ari Brown:I feel like we just did yeah don't have a tantrum yourself yeah you know you probably want to start

30:29Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:crying okay how do toddlers actually learn to self-regulate and how much of that depends on parents staying regulated themselves i guess clarifying we're kind of moving to a new section right now well that that feels like a phenomenal piggyback off of what we just talked about yeah but moving away from the the is this normal great so parents are the role model so that's the

30:54Dr. Ari Brown:first step is you want to teach your child how to have self-control in moments that don't go the way they want them to because life is that way. So you are the role model. Try to be the best person you can be to be the parent that you want your child to see. That's the very first thing. The second thing that I think is really important to point out is kids have different temperaments And if you have the easygoing child, wow. Like we all want the easygoing child, right? But a lot of kids are not easygoing. So those kids naturally have some tools in their toolbox and are better at calming themselves than a child who is more sensitive.

31:40Dr. Ari Brown:Those kids probably need more tools. And whatever those tools are, you're going to have to figure out because every kid is different. Maybe it's talking calmly. Maybe it's taking some deep breaths. Maybe it's that physical closeness that's, you know, calming for them. But you can be consistent about whatever strategy seems to work for your child and remind them, these are the things that you're going to do when I'm not here. Because, you know, your child is going to be at preschool. Your child's going to be somewhere else. and the more you give them those tools to self-regulate, they're going to employ them when you're not there to help them.

32:22Oh, that's really cute.

32:25Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:What's an example of a tool? Like would it be a blanket or? No, it's going to be like I love the taking big breath.

32:32Dr. Ari Brown:I mean some of this stuff is like taking big breaths. Okay. Yeah.

32:36Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Like we just stop and we take breaths.

32:37Dr. Ari Brown:Or having some positive self-talk like, you know, saying this is okay. It's going to be okay. I'm gonna you know and and these are these are this is a monologue that you can be saying to your child you know it's okay you're frustrated we're gonna find a solution and then your child can kind of have that in their brain it's okay I'm frustrated I'm gonna find a solution like these are the that's what you want is you want a child who's resilient when things aren't going their way and you have a positive view of and things will go on and it will be okay. Okay. I

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34:27Dr. Ari Brown:So I think parents have unrealistic expectations. That's the biggest issue is we are in a society where we can have anything we want in a moment, right? Like just order it. Like it's coming at the door in a couple hours, right? Order it on DoorDash. Right. Yes. So discipline does not work that way. And so parents have this, oh my gosh, I told them not to, you know, pull the dog's tail. And yet 20 more times they're pulling the dog's tail. So then they think, oh, my strategy isn't working. I should use a different strategy. And so I want every parent to hear this. You can't make a toddler eat, sleep, or poop on the potty.

35:10Dr. Ari Brown:It has to be their idea. And every parent needs to hear that you are planting the seeds of discipline. Do not expect your tree to grow overnight. Okay. It is not instant gratification.

35:22Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:It's like repetition to keep doing it.

35:24Dr. Ari Brown:Consistency is key. And you're going to look at your, like you have to have a leap of faith, right? And, and know that, you know, when your child is five or when they're 10, you can look back and go, oh, all of this work and effort really worked, but you're not going to see it in the moment. You were not going to see it in the moment.

35:43Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Everything with parenting, like you have to bake the baby for 10 months, like you can't not. and it's like with this discipline stuff like they're not going to stop throwing their food one day well one day they will but right then if the first time you do it like it's not they're not just going to be like okay no more yes you have to just keep doing it so repetition i actually love that answer like the biggest mistake is unrealistic expectations in a society that gets things very quickly yeah this is not one of them okay so on that note let's talk about do these classic punishments actually work?

36:17So the first one is, do timeouts work?

36:22Dr. Ari Brown:Depends on how you define timeouts. I feel like we're doing a lot of defining today. Okay, let's define it. So this is how I would view timeout. A timeout is like something in a sporting event. We're going to take a break, we're going to huddle, maybe we're going to have a little bit of water, and we're going to reset. That's a timeout. And so in that situation, I do think timeout is very effective. But I would pick the reason why you're choosing timeout. And I would say these are like red light offenses. So I'd pick red, yellow, and green in your box of what are these behaviors I don't want to see.

37:00Dr. Ari Brown:And red light is always going to be like my child might hurt themselves, they're in danger or they might hurt somebody else. That is an automatic timeout. And that might be a situation out in public or somewhere in your house. And if they are doing something that is absolutely not okay, you're going to stop in that moment. You call the timeout and either you're going to huddle or you're going to tell them what is wrong that is dangerous, but it's very quick and brief, and then we're going to reset, and then we're going to move on. Okay.

37:34Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:So you are not talking about a timeout in the classic sense, as I would call it, where you're facing the wall in timeout.

37:41Dr. Ari Brown:Yeah. Timeout where there's a naughty chair, that I would not recommend. I would not recommend a naughty chair. And first of all, your child's not going to sit in the naughty chair and stare at the corner. But because they're going to move around, they're not going to sit there. But the point is, is it's a break. And actually, timeout can be virtual, too. It's not a location, necessarily. It's we're taking a break from whatever it is that was the situation that was problematic. So yeah, I don't and timeout maybe and here's another example of a timeout is timeout is we're going to sit on my lap here for a minute.

38:18Dr. Ari Brown:And we're just going to take a pause. And we're not going to have a conversation because, again, conversation is attention. So if they're looking for attention and, you know, that was why they did whatever they did, you don't want to give them attention. But you can hold them physically on your lap. And that's a timeout, too, because it's a break and you're going to reset. It's funny. Your definition of timeout makes a lot of sense.

38:42Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Yeah. It's very much what we alluded to earlier of the aisle nine in the grocery store tantrum. How do you handle that? Yes. Let's take a step outside. Let's go to the car. Let's take deep breaths. Let's calm. But what we shouldn't do is say, all right, let's go stand in that corner. Face the wall for 10 minutes. Timer on. Yeah. What were you going to say, Jules? I was just going to say, I think last month you mentioned that you see the timeout as more of a tool for parental self-regulation.

39:17Dr. Ari Brown:Yes. I was going to comment about that too. Yes. Yeah. So the other way timeout works is for parents, because a lot of our emotions get wrapped up in the way that we manage the moment. And I would take emotion out of the equation to be able to manage a situation in a calm way. So let the parent take a timeout. That can be extremely effective. Oh, it's timeout.

39:42Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Yeah.

39:44Dr. Ari Brown:Go in the bedroom, get your composure, you know, put your own oxygen mask on first.

39:51Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Yeah.

39:52Dr. Ari Brown:Find that place and then go in because we don't want you to react. We want you to act, not react. And if you're not in that calm place, you're not going to be the best parent you can be.

40:03Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:I mean, that's for the parent makes a lot of sense, too. It's just like over and over again, and the parent has to stay calm, which I love. Like, anger doesn't get the right thing out of it. Okay, does spanking actually work?

40:19Dr. Ari Brown:No, and this is really important for people to know, is the data is clear on this, and no child development researcher would ever tell you that spanking is a good idea at this point. It only leads to negative behaviors in the child. And the first thing to know is you're your child's role model. So if you want them to learn that using physical force gets what you want, then that's what you're teaching them by spanking. So we don't recommend that. And if you look at long-term behavior outcomes in the child, it's more likely to lead to anxiety, antisocial behavior, and more physical aggression. And these are not things you want your child to have.

41:03Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:And bigger picture, it's the epitome of a parent not being able to keep their composure.

41:08Dr. Ari Brown:Exactly.

41:09Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:You don't know what else to do. Of all the things that you're saying parents should be focused on when it comes to discipline, composure has just been a consistent theme. And inherently, when you're spanking your kid, you're not composed. So we've talked about this, and I think Emily Oster told us, And then our own poll told us 50 % of American parents spank. So like why? Okay. Great question. Because I forget that the number is that high. It's that high. I assume that when you asked that, it was like, why are you asking that? No one spanks anymore. Yeah. So here's what I would say is I frequently hear, well, I was spanked as a child and I turned out okay.

41:57Dr. Ari Brown:And my comment to that is, I think you turned out okay despite being spanked, not because you were spanked. And you should probably evaluate the relationship that you want to have with your child. And as a parent myself, a lot of us come to parenting only with experience of having parents ourselves. And our parents, maybe they did some really great things and they did things right. and we want to do those same things as parents ourselves, but maybe they made some choices that we wouldn't repeat. And so this would be one I would say, take a look at what you really want to do with your child and your relationship with your child, even if you were spanked yourself, because there isn't really anything to support that being a valuable tool in your toolbox.

42:48And I think that's what our generation of parenting

42:51Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:is hopefully trying to do, even though the numbers, I can't, the 50 % still spanking. I'll say this, before we had Tate, before I even had the thought of being a parent, I used to think like, I don't know, will I spank my kid? Like, what are we doing these days? I have no idea. And then to learn there's nothing that says it's good. I mean, that's just, and then, well, once I had her, I was like, I could never spank this little thing. Oh no, never. Like it just would break my heart. But I think it's really important to know. Also, it's pretty crazy.

43:22Dr. Ari Brown:don't hit but then I'll hit you exactly it makes no confusing what what I will say and I think the reason why spanking is used not not to validate the spanking part of it is it's the goal is to set limits on your child's behavior but you can set limits and boundaries on your child's behavior without using physical force and there are a lot of tools that work that are positive that lead to better outcomes than spanking.

43:54Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Can you give us one? Because I do see a lot. I made a spanking video and one comment was you don't have a kid that needs to be spanked. Like you just don't have the little hell you and I had for those parents that think their kid is just a red light 10 out of 10. What's like an extreme thing you can do that does set a boundary that says no, you absolutely cannot jump off the first floor to the second floor.

44:21Dr. Ari Brown:Well, I mean, all of the things that we've talked about are setting, they're about setting boundaries, right? But what's like an intense one? You've got, you know, you've got a kid who, oh, sorry, go ahead.

44:32Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Can I try and answer that? Yeah. Because I feel like she's addressed. I feel like she's answered this. I think that's the whole point is like, if your kid is really acting up, don't meet that energy by getting riled up as well. Take them outside. Like if they're at a dance class and they're, you know, causing a bunch of ruckus, take them out of the dance class. Sit with them. Let their heart beat calm. No, but I'm talking like they're playing with matches and literally fires. And you need to be like, never again.

45:02Dr. Ari Brown:The big picture is natural consequences in a safe way. So you don't want your child to learn that they don't play with matches because they burn themselves. What you want them to learn is that is a line in the sand that is not negotiable. Make their world safer so they don't have access to the matches. That's the first thing I would say. But if they do access it, you act in that moment and you're very direct and you're very short and sweet about it, but this is not okay. You move them from the situation if the situation is what has lent them to that behavior that's dangerous. The next time you figure out how to make your world a little safer so you can avoid some of these things.

45:48Dr. Ari Brown:But some are unavoidable. And at that moment, you have to address it. But that's your line in the sand is, you know, your daughter running at the airport. It's not okay. Let's figure out a better way so she's safe and she doesn't get lost at the airport. Right. Okay.

46:04Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:And it's not going to one conversation, one handling of the moment isn't going to solve it. As you spoke to before. it ultimately takes time, which is why it's so important that we as parents are patient. Yeah. Okay. It makes sense. Okay. It's officially the month of love and we know you want to celebrate with the one you love the most, which is your dog. So celebrate the one you love the most by giving them the best, highest quality ingredients with Ollie. And yes, that's the kind to meal dogs actually will get excited about. It's real fresh food they'll love and devour, which is the best way to show them love every single day.

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47:50Dr. Ari Brown:It works when it makes sense because natural consequences is giving your child logic and teaching them that that ends up with something that they don't want to see. So it's a consequence that they don't want to see. So kids make choices. They're good choices. They're bad choices. Their bad choice leads to whatever, which is not the outcome they wanted. Thus, they learn from it. Now, scenario. You're throwing your food at the kitchen table. The answer is you're telling me you're done eating, so you're excused from the table. That's X to Y. Next time you'll remember if you wanted to eat, you don't throw your food.

48:30Dr. Ari Brown:That's easy, right? That makes sense. It's logical. If your child is acting up and then you take away their iPad, that makes no sense. That makes no sense. And you've also made the iPad some reward or some, you know, we don't want to make a screen something that they, you know, earn or whatever. It's a reward. But that makes no sense. Like taking away something that makes no sense does not teach them anything. Something that logically leads to a consequence that they didn't want like if they still wanted to stay at the kitchen table then they just learned that they need to stop throwing their food interesting so

49:08Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:make it make sense to them yeah and inherently i guess the way that ties back to spanking is spanking doesn't make sense to the child it's just like randomly why am i getting hit versus if like a child if if your child is playing with another kid and hits the other kid to get a toy they and you remove them, you give the toy back to the other kid and you take them out of the play area, the child then learns, okay, if I hit the other kid for the toy, I'm not going to get the toy. So the way to get the toy is to be patient and wait for my turn. Totally.

49:42Dr. Ari Brown:Good job. Yeah. You're an excellent student. Yeah. As are you. And that's why I'm like – I'm not as good.

49:47Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:The reason why I'm saying it aloud is to make sure that I'm digesting what you're saying and inherently it all makes sense. um yeah no i agree with that okay how we're gonna talk about the arrival of baby number two how does the arrival of a new sibling typically show up in behavior and discipline challenges

50:09Dr. Ari Brown:with a toddler yeah i think your freight train is coming and you guys haven't seen it yet um and and it's not necessarily i mean it's not a bad thing but tate is gonna tate is used to being you know, solo act and she gets all of your attention. And so what happens when another child enters the picture is that older child says, hey, wait a minute, I'm used to getting all the attention. And then they get frustrated and then they want attention. And so they will seek out ways to get attention. And any attention is attention, good or bad. So they may do some things that are maybe a little naughty or things that, you know, they wouldn't typically do because it gets a rise out of you.

50:54Dr. Ari Brown:So what I always tell families is be prepared. That's the first thing, you guys. Be prepared for this. And it's usually kind of a six-week transition once the baby's born. But as much as you can give her attention without her having to ask for it, that is really going to make things a lot better.

51:12Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Okay, so get ahead of it. But you're kind of describing the term rebellion. Do they rebel a little because they're like, wait, why are you guys changing that kid's diaper all the time like every morning it was just you and me oh it's sad i may eat my words on this okay you're gonna eat your words on this he's gonna say because she's with winnie all the time we we i think are in a bit of a unique situation no where there are she's with so every day she's with winning her peer and then over half the days there's another baby yates who's when he's little brother when he's little brother tell him it's still coming the reckoning But she sees us holding other babies all the time.

51:54Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Like these babies are at her house all the time. So I just think it's – I think that hopefully we're in a – it hits us a little lighter than normal. Are you posing this as a question? I'm making my prediction. Dr. Brown, what do you think? And then the last thing where I got to give you credit is a question is like in terms of giving the attention and not changing too much. One thing Alex did, which I loved, is she moved Tate's room like three or four weeks ago. So that way Tate now has her own room that she's getting comfortable with. And it's not like we move her room one day and the next day there's a baby there.

52:33Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:So like are there other things that parents should be doing like that to be prepared?

52:42Dr. Ari Brown:I think it's great that you have done some things beforehand. hand, but once the baby's born is really when I would be mindful of this because she has no concept of time or anything like that right now. But I think the best advice that I can give to you guys is when you have other people coming in, I don't know if you're having grandparents that are coming in, but people generally do that to help. A lot of times they'll hand the toddler over to the grandparents and outsource that role. And then the parents take care of the baby. I would recommend doing the opposite. Hand the baby over as much as you can.

53:22Dr. Ari Brown:And you guys go to the park with Tate or go to story time. Because again, the more you give her that attention that she craves,

53:31Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:she won't have to ask for it.

53:33Dr. Ari Brown:But it's the opposite of what parents do.

53:35Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:That's so smart. But let me ask you about this. So I had a friend tell me she had a toddler and then had a second baby. And one thing she had read was, let's say your toddler really wants attention and your newborn needs a diaper change. Give the toddler the attention and then change the newborn's diaper because the toddler will remember that you were always putting the newborn first. Well, she said, fast forward, my toddler thinks the world revolves around him. What do you think about that?

54:09Dr. Ari Brown:You know, I think kids learn patience. And it's interesting with families who have twins how patient those kids are because they don't get everything in the moment that they want it. And so I think that there's a balance that you can strike. But again, as much as you can pregame it, the better off you're going to be. A lot of times the toddler will decide that they urgently need something right when you're sitting down to feed the baby. And they watch, you know, they're watching what you're doing. And so they'll be like, oh, I suddenly need water. And you're like, I'm sitting here, you know, feeding a baby, right?

54:47Dr. Ari Brown:So as much as you can make everything ahead of time, like let's get everything ready for Tate. And also, this is another trick I like to recommend, is when you're feeding the baby, make it Tate's story time, your reading time. So Tate thinks it's her time on the couch. And she can turn the pages and you can read the book while you're sitting there feeding the baby. So she gets to share that time or even think it's her time when, in fact, it's the baby's feeding time.

55:15Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:That's a great idea. You should have seen the reaction you got on Jules' face with that one. That was smart. Okay, so let's go back to Harrison thinking that the reckoning is not coming because she's around Winnie a lot. I think it's going to be less. It's just a prediction. But I just want to ask Dr.

55:30Dr. Ari Brown:Brown, what do you think? I think you're going to see pushback no matter what, because even at the, you know, there are moments that she's with her friend and there are moments that you're holding the other baby. But she still knows that you guys are her people and, you know, you're the support staff for her. And now it's going to be shared. And there is a little bit of a, you know, it's like the five stages of grieving. They kind of go through it. And they're always nice to the baby. Like they don't, they're not mean to the baby. They're mean to parents. So they will take it out on you just a little bit.

56:04Dr. Ari Brown:So it may be a little less intense. And again, it depends on the temperament and your situation. But I think you're going to see some pushback.

56:12Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Yeah, I definitely, I'm not saying we're not seeing pushback. I'm saying like, I think it's going to be a little less than normal.

56:19Dr. Ari Brown:And what if Tate helps with diaper changes? That's great. Right. And the more you can make her feel important and she's participating. I mean these are all things that are going to make her feel good and get attention which is what she really wants.

56:33Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Yeah okay so we're going to have she's just going to help us with everything. I love the feeding time is story time. And I absolutely love with our family that's in town you guys take the baby. Yeah that to me is we'll take Tate is such a hack. Such a great one. Such a hack. Now you say it, it sounds so obvious, but I don't think we would have thought of that. We wouldn't have. We didn't think of that. You're welcome. And it's who doesn't want to watch a baby? It's a win, win, win, win, win, right? They get to hold the baby. Yeah. So that's really fun. Okay. For everyone trying to stick to those resolutions of eating better and getting more protein, I hear you, but you don't want to sacrifice on good food, do you?

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57:59Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:So you guys, trust me, you need Goodles mac and cheese in your life. Pick up Goodles on your next shopping trip. It's available nationwide at Target, Walmart, plus many other major grocery stores and retailers. And I promise you, it is so, so good. If you had to give overwhelmed parents a starting point, what are the first five rules or tools you'd want them to focus on? When it comes to discipline. When it comes to discipline, and Dr. Brown has 20 that will be in the show notes, but you're going to give us five. Wow.

58:31Dr. Ari Brown:It's hard to pick five. But I think, you know, take your own pulse first or put your oxygen mask on first is really important. be a good role model celebrate the behaviors you want to see okay don't reward the behaviors you don't want to see and don't back down to avoid conflict I like that and by don't reward behaviors

58:58Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:you don't want to see that includes acknowledging them in any capacity you get bit you don't say no don't bite me but you don't keep harping on them that's that's a form of reward which is what a lot of parents I don't think know I didn't know that it's attention attention of any kind is a reward don't buy the candy bar when they're having attention okay we've learned a lot this episode okay those were really good um okay this is probably my favorite question what happens when one parent is the good cop and the other is the bad cop how should couples handle discipline

59:31Dr. Ari Brown:agreements disagreements yeah that's so common it's so common I think it's important for families to figure out what the game plan is ahead of time. And you can always readjust, you know, look at what's working and what's not working, but have a unified game plan. And like your relationship, it's all about compromise, right? You're not going to get everything. You're not going to get everything that you want, but you have come up with a unified plan that you can agree on and you respect each other and you listen to each other's input and then you figure out what's working and what's not working and it's important for the child and also your relationship and I can't tell you how much relationship conflict I see when two parents are parenting differently and ignoring the other person's input right that is not good that's not good for the couple and it's not good for the kid because the kid gets mixed messages so here's where it comes into a problem with the kid is if you're giving mixed messages the softy always gets pushed because if there is wiggle room your child will find it oh so you're not doing your child a favor by being their buddy and being the good cop that's you're not okay that's really important i think to

1:00:54Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:year you're not doing them a favor by being like buddy buddy with because then you you're

1:00:59Dr. Ari Brown:inconsistent right you have to have consistent boundaries so your child knows where those boundaries are so if there's one boundary for one parent and another boundary for another tate's always going to go into the pantry when you're around totally but not when you're around

1:01:14Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:right so we have to align on like the the pantry's a no it's just a no decide you know make a decision stick to it well we had we had one come up last night we do mommy daughter dance class and I was just like out of breath and he had come to watch so he subbed in for me and there's this one part where there's stations and to me I was like well we have to go slide to walking over the bridge to the rocking chair back to the slide and I was sitting out though and Harrison was in the arena with her and he was just letting her repeat do the slide and I was like Harrison she has to follow the thing she has to follow the rules and go in order and he just shrugged and he was like or she can keep doing the slide and I was like no in my mind she must go in the order that the rest of the kids are going in but plenty of parents were letting their kids repeat do the slide and I and that was probably confusing to her because when mom was in there we had to go from the slide to the next thing but when dad was in there she could just do the slide over and over again yeah I mean she loved the slide why would we take that away from Yeah.

1:02:19Dr. Ari Brown:Kids will realize that there's some activities or some things they do with one parent and other things that they do with another parent. But I'm talking about boundaries. Like that's a little bit different than your dance situation unless those were the hard, fast rules. But I think one thing that's helpful for parents to look at is or one thing that's helpful for parents to ask is, is this essential? Right. Is this non-negotiable? Like is this dance class non-negotiable? like does it really i mean i think he's asking the question does it really matter whether she just did one or four different things in the obstacle course or whatever like and i asked

1:02:56Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:myself that i was like oh it doesn't matter it doesn't matter like and so that's a good point so ask yourself is this essential but now the pantry her her being told no pantry with him but yes pantry with me what do you think about that well maybe align oh well maybe there's a reason i had a reason the reason was choking hazards yeah and i think that that makes a lot of sense yeah yeah like there are things in there that she can just open and get into not negotiable yeah okay and so and a lot of it is meeting in the middle then i love it i think that's great okay um questions from the audience we've narrowed it down but oh this is a good one all right discipline related what is the best approach for feeding your child when they are refusing the meal offered to not create bad eating habits

1:03:45Dr. Ari Brown:Oh, this is a whole podcast. It's the next podcast, in fact. We're going to talk about this. So it's a great question. The short answer to that is this is what we're eating. If you don't want to eat it, meal's going to be served again in the next few hours. You know, there are opportunities. Kids eat five times a day. Even kindergartners eat three meals and two snacks. So every three hours, your kid's going to have a chance to eat something. but you can't force a toddler to eat sleep or poop on the potty. So if they don't want to eat, they're not going to eat. And maybe they're not hungry and maybe they're going to eat one good meal in a day or once every three days they're hungry, but do not make another meal.

1:04:25Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Okay. Cause then that will become a game.

1:04:27Dr. Ari Brown:No, because then you become a short order cook and then you eat one meal and your kids eating another meal and you do not need to cave. And this is also, you know, it falls under this same canopy of setting a boundary. You know, food is about, you're setting a limit. This is what we're eating. If you want it, here it is. If you don't, fine. You'll eat again later. Don't worry about it. And that's the, and that's the reason why parents become short order cooks is because they're worried their kid's not going to eat. If they're really hungry, they'll eat.

1:04:58Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Okay. Thank you. That's what I need to know. If they're really hungry, they will eat. Okay, done. How do you handle toddlers saying no to everything, to shoes, to the car seat, etc? No, no, no. Their favorite word becomes no, as you say.

1:05:12Dr. Ari Brown:Well, first, don't ask the question. So that's the key is the answer will always be no. Okay. So frame it. It's all about framing it. Which do you want to do first? Do you want to put your shoes on or you want to put your coat on let them decide because they want to be in charge so you've just let them be in charge and the answer is going to be something you want them to do so try to avoid asking the question that way that's the first thing the other thing is don't get into a power struggle because they will always win wow okay what it gives it give us an example of a

1:05:49Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:power struggle with the car seat?

1:05:51Dr. Ari Brown:So if you say, do you want to get in your car seat? And they say no, well, then you're a little bit stuck because you've got to get to preschool or you've got to get to the grocery store or whatever. So you don't make it optional. And we're going to do this. Now you can play a game. Let's see how fast we can get into the car seat. Or your stuffed animal is waiting for you in the car. So that's motivating her to get in the car. Or I love sticker charts. you get a sticker every time we do something that we want you to do. Like you come up with things that incentivize the behavior. But if you get into this, I want you to do this, and they don't want to, then it's no longer about the car seat.

1:06:33Dr. Ari Brown:It's all about the power. That's completely what the purpose of that pushback is, is I want to be in charge, and you're pushing me to do something I don't want to do.

1:06:42Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Love it. Okay, so we're not asking the question about the car seat. maybe we can say which stuffed animal do you want in your car seat but you're getting in the car seat okay that's phenomenal um kind of already did that one okay how do you teach them things to fear like stovetops outlets and other things that could harm them i would like to do this

1:07:05Dr. Ari Brown:without traumatizing them did you see the dad that tried to electrocute himself on tiktok because That was hilarious and scary at the same time. That was what the person, I cut it off, but that person referenced that in their question. Yeah, don't do that. Like, years of therapy for that poor child. Right, like it scared them.

1:07:26Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:He was trying to electrocute themselves to show the kid what could happen?

1:07:29Dr. Ari Brown:Yeah. Oh. I mean, he pretended. It was a, I mean, the guy, it was like, it was an Oscar-worthy performance. I mean, this guy like pretended he was electrocuted. He did not really get electrocuted. But at the end of the day, you can set limits without showing them what the consequence is, right? Right. And so it's off limits. It's not negotiable. They don't understand I could get hurt. They might understand it hurts or you could get hurt. So if you want to frame it in a very short and sweet way of expressing all of those things that are dangerous is I don't want you to get hurt. This could be dangerous.

1:08:09Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:very simple words yeah and you already see that like happening in a sense where she really really understands caliente and hot food like if we put down the food in front of her we say caliente she goes like this right and then like she'll wait one of the rare times she'll wait before eating and so it's like when it comes to the stove like she knows caliente is bad right like she knows that she doesn't want hot and so just caliente caliente and obviously not saying it once and assuming she's going to remember it forever but consistently saying it so it is funny i've noticed when a fireplace is on she does seem to know that that is scary inherently maybe maybe i'm making that up but it seems like she knows not to like walk over towards no totally the same way though that she doesn't understand if the if the oven door is down she doesn't know it's hot she doesn't know that that's hot because sometimes it's not hot sometimes it's not hot and so that is one we come in like we're very just like conscious of where she is at all times um okay last one and i think this is a good one oh well we've we've reviewed if if they begin to think something is funny you just because you taught like the pacifiers you taught them it was funny you have to stop reacting okay um why do they prefer one parent over the other parent especially when one hasn't done anything wrong

1:09:36Dr. Ari Brown:hmm um I think kids will pick a favorite during different phases of their life and when you're the favorite you're like oh my gosh can I just have a break and wait um and when you're not the favorite you feel kind of like chopped liver like how come my kid doesn't want to hang out with me but everybody gets a turn um and it and it's just a different phase of life but But again, don't be the softy to be your child's buddy. Your child is going to love you. And your child is going to love you even more if you set up really healthy boundaries for them because they turn into a great person thanks to your help.

1:10:13Dr. Ari Brown:Totally. But know that you will have a different relationship with your child during different phases of their life. Okay. That makes a lot of sense.

1:10:23Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:I mean, Tate was in a massive dada phase. She's now evened out. It's totally leveled out. Yeah, but it's funny because you're just like, that came out of nowhere. Just dada all the time. Okay, do you have any other questions or do you have anything else left to say?

1:10:36Dr. Ari Brown:I think the one thing that parents don't know is the terrible twos can start like literally at your child's first birthday. Or, and that's always a big surprise, or as late as, you know, three. But at some point your toddler is going to go through it. And I like to call it the terrific twos. I like that. Yeah. I like it a lot more. And there's three-nagers. Like, you're going to see it. And the reason why they wake up and act this way is it's their job to try to be independent and control. And these are all positive things. But you may see it real early. And it's always surprising to parents that their child is already testing them and their kid's only, you know, 12 or 13 months of age.

1:11:25Dr. Ari Brown:but you will see it at some point and celebrate it. I love that.

1:11:30Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Celebrate it. I love reframing it as the terrific twos, but I feel like now people listening are going to, they're just going to be on like alert too. Like what day is it going to start? And they're just going to wake up. And a form of the terrible twos or the terrific twos is they try manipulation. They start tantruming. Like what comes with the terrific twos?

1:11:51Dr. Ari Brown:Yeah. I mean, I had a mom literally call me because she was worried her 15-month-old had had a tantrum at Costco. And she was like, is something wrong with my child? I'm like, no, welcome. So it's going to happen. And it is kind of an overnight. Like they wake up the next morning and they have different attitudes. So you'll see it.

1:12:13Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:I really think we're starting to see it. Starting to see it. Not in the thick of it. I think we're starting to see it. Well, it's the terrific two, so that's perfect. Here we go. Yeah, 16, 17 months old. Okay, is there anything else? I think we have covered it.

1:12:31Dr. Ari Brown:I can't wait to visit with you guys next time.

1:12:33Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:I know, I know, I know. I feel just like so, I learned a ton. Yeah, this is really helpful. Thank you so much. Every time you come on, it is so helpful.

1:12:41Dr. Ari Brown:Okay, tell people where they can find you. You can find me online at Ari Brown MD, and my books are everywhere, Baby411. New edition just came out. Super excited. And online, I'm draribrown.com.

1:12:56Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Okay, there it is. Thank you, Dr. Brown. As always, we enjoyed it. Thank you so much.

1:13:01Dr. Ari Brown:Thank you.

1:13:02Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:And we are very excited for next month when we have Dr. Brown back on to talk about nutrition and eating habits, as you alluded to. That'll be a great episode. Thanks for listening to another episode of Two Parents in a Podcast powered by Just Media House. If you enjoyed the show, don't forget to like, subscribe, comment, rate and review. Stay connected on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube and Facebook at Two Parents in a Pod. Welcome to our home. Sorry it's so messy. New episodes Mondays and Thursdays. Monster Energy. Everybody knows White Monster, Zero Ultra. That's the OG. It kicked off this whole Zero Sugar Energy drink thing.

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