The 411 on Toddler Nutrition & Eating: Starting Solids, Allergies & Picky Eaters (w/ Dr. Ari Brown)

16:50Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Like you get food scissors, right? Like we have a pair of scissors in our kitchen that are dedicated to food and you just put some of those in your diaper bag. Genius. Easy. So easy because you have the knife and the fork. I mean, it just takes long. And when they're hungry, they're hungry. And so just to kind of continue on the timeline, I think you've given us the directive. at six months you start introducing healthy foods in the right form in baby-friendly form factors. Are there any foods at six months to 12 or at six months that you should delay introducing because they're either healthy foods because they're per se a choking hazard or something else?

17:31Dr. Ari Brown:You're exactly right. Choking hazards because a baby's airway is about the size of a peanut. And so that's why you want to be really careful with things that they aren't that good at chewing and could potentially get lodged. So that would be a hot dog or a grape or a cherry tomato or a hard carrot or a big piece of steak. Like these are things that your baby is not going to be able to chew effectively and potentially it could get stuck in their airway. And popcorn. Popcorn, yeah.

18:04Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Plantain chips. Plantain chips, yes. Any kind of chip, I feel like, could break off in there, right? So their airway is the size of a peanut.

18:13Dr. Ari Brown:That is so small. It's about, yeah. I mean, it's the diameter, the diameter. So that's why you just need to be careful. And so one of the things, you know, well, one of the many things that parents are afraid of when they introduce solid food, one is allergy risk and the other is choking. and so I actually have like the size the dimensions in the baby 4-in-1 book and I'm like if you want to measure it here it is but if you want something to be in the palm of your child's hand you want it to be about the size of your finger so like an omelet stick or a little toast stick they can or zucchini or whatever avocado they can hold in their hand and when we're looking at choking Choking hazards, it's about the size of your pinky nail.

18:59Dr. Ari Brown:So it's about a quarter of an inch diameter. That's small. Yeah, it's small.

19:04Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Okay. So when it comes to choking too, I see, and we have one, what is that device called? Oh, those mashers? No, it's a pump that goes in your mouth like if they do choke. Do you think those really work?

19:19Dr. Ari Brown:Yeah, I've seen them. I don't know. Okay. I don't know. But here's what I do know is everyone should take an infant CPR class so that you're prepared, whether it's your own child or some other kid. Like, everyone should take CPR class.

19:34Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:We took one. We took a refresher because we took it too early. We took it before she was born. And then six months rolled around. We were like, what was that again? And so we took it again. And it did make us feel better. Just more equipped to know how to, you know, hit that middle of that back. Like, it was really – because I do think you're right. So, okay. So the, let's talk, we've got the two, let's, let's stay on choking. So what do parents need to know about choking when introducing foods and beyond? In summary, you should always

20:03Dr. Ari Brown:supervise your child when they're eating. Number one, don't give them too many items because sometimes they will actually start stockpiling them in their cheeks and not swallow them. So, you know, a couple at a time, make sure they swallow it and then they can have more. They can always have more. Have a CPR class. And then be aware of choking hazard foods. If you really want to offer some of these foods, you can cut them in quarters. But hot dogs, grapes, cherry tomatoes, those are kind of the obvious ones that a child might eat. Popcorn, raisins, peanuts in their true form, a hard carrot, hard piece of steak.

20:47Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:And what is the real risk with choking? Like I know it's probably it's most parents number one fear when it comes to feeding, and it was ours too. But what is the real? Do you have any statistics on choking?

21:00Dr. Ari Brown:There are about 10 ,000 ER visits a year due to choking and about 140 deaths a year. And those are usually kids under the age of five. So yeah, if you can't breathe, that is a problem. So that's the issue with choking.

21:19Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:So that's really interesting because I was about to ask like, how long should choking be a focus for parents? And that number going up to five is later than I would have thought. But it sounds like the choking risk is something that really does carry through. It's not just in those first, you know, three, six, nine months. And even now where Tate is eating, you know, so seamlessly, it still should really be top of radar for us.

21:54Dr. Ari Brown:Well, you just pay attention. You know, I mean, I'm sure she's very good at chewing food right now, But you just want to pay attention. And again, don't give her too much. Make sure she's swallowing it and make sure that they're bite-sized pieces.

22:08Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:And so at what point is it okay to leave a child unsupervised when eating?

22:15Dr. Ari Brown:Probably kindergarten. I mean, I think your greatest risk is probably under age three. I mean, a peanut-sized airway is small. And the airway does grow. Yeah, but still. When we're talking about a baby, it's the size of a peanut. It does grow as the baby, you know, as the child grows. But again, and they get more proficient at chewing. Right. So you've got two things in your favor with age.

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23:51Dr. Ari Brown:Let me make one more comment about choking because parents are fearful of choking, but there's a big difference between gagging and choking, and there will be gagging. So I just want to warn everybody that gagging is okay. That means your child doesn't know what to do with the food and it just comes out at you. So that's very different from can't move air because the food is lodged. So as your child is practicing, I mean, it's definitely a buzzkill for dinner when your kid pukes all over the table, but it might happen because they're learning.

24:24Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:And what are the signs to differentiate between the two?

24:28Dr. Ari Brown:Silence? Yeah, silence, right. Because if they're choking, they can't make noise. So that's what you're looking for.

24:34Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:If they're acting, they're trying to get it up and that's okay. Yes. And do you recommend, what age do you, what are your thoughts on this? Because I see a lot of controversy both ways. fastening them into the high chairs versus not fastening them in so you can pull them out easily

24:52Dr. Ari Brown:if they are choking perhaps i just saw this on tiktok did you guys just see that little strap thing where the kids are like anyway it's amazing that the products that are out there for babies and parents but anyway my take is for a high chair i like them to be secure because i did have one of my own children slide out because he wasn't belted in wasn't on my watch but okay

25:19Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:i wasn't home but if they choke what you just you got to be fast at getting them out okay yeah okay so you prefer to fasten them into the yeah then they're secure that's the point of it right i did i just see a lot of discourse about do fasten them and don't fasten them in so i wasn't sure okay so the other large fear around feeding your kid is when the allergens come into play right So what do parents need to know about allergies when introducing new foods?

25:48Dr. Ari Brown:We've learned a lot about introducing foods. And back when I started in practice, we used to tell people to wait to introduce eggs, wait to introduce seafood, wait to introduce peanuts. And now we're like, please, full speed ahead starting at six months, because the data is really clear that countries that actually introduce peanut products to babies had a much lower risk of peanut allergy than in the US and in the UK where we waited. So that is the memo to parents is please introduce these high allergy foods. The fear is not introducing them. Not, yes. So, and you want to keep it in the rotation too.

26:31Dr. Ari Brown:So it's not just one and done like, oh, we tried peanut butter and it was fine. Three times a week, peanut products and egg products starting at six months. And then all of the other high allergy foods, which I'm happy to rattle off, but you've got cow milk protein and you've got soy protein and wheat and sesame and shellfish and fish and tree nuts, peanuts, all of those foods you want to introduce. I just can't tell you that your kid's not going to have a shrimp allergy because you're introducing it and doing it three times a week. But we have real pretty clear data on peanut and egg products three times a week.

27:11Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:On different days? You don't want to do peanuts and eggs on the same meal the same day? Or does that not matter? So you can track if they do have a reaction?

27:20Dr. Ari Brown:Yeah. So that's a great and fair question. And again, what we used to tell people is one new food every two or three days. So if there's a problem, you'll know which food is the problem. And I think that really fed into this fearful feeding. And I want people to have fearless feeding. So just do it. Just do it. And if there's a problem, you go backwards, you go, okay, we're going to do an elimination, figure out what the problem was. But just full speed ahead. Because if you do one every two or three days, it's going to take you forever to get through all the foods. And the goal is just start all the foods and move on.

27:53Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:So there's this trend online where the first time people introduce peanut butter to their baby they drive and they sit outside the hospital and they give the peanut

28:03Dr. Ari Brown:butter there what do you think my office really i have patients who sit out in my parking lot to introduce peanut butter to their kids and i'm like all right whatever because they think they're

28:13Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:gonna eat it and then like five minutes later like stop breathing right but that's not the reality of how if if your kid does have an allergy how does it come to fruition what does that look like right

28:24Dr. Ari Brown:So a true reaction, hives, which look like big welts or they almost look like mosquito bites. They're popping up all over the place. Lip swelling, difficulty breathing, immediate and profuse vomiting. Those are red flags. Not my kid has this red area on their cheek, which, by the way, happens all the time because your kid is messy and there's food all over their face and it can be irritating. That is not a food allergy. Not a food allergy.

28:54Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Okay. And so if that can happen, let's say that does happen, then what does the parent do?

28:59Dr. Ari Brown:Right. So if they're actually having labored breathing, you call 911.

29:04Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Okay.

29:04Dr. Ari Brown:If they have hives, you can call your pediatrician. We're going to tell you to give, believe it or not, Zyrtec or Claritin for babies. Benadryl is really out of vogue now. That's the first generation antihistamine. It's very sedating. zyrtec or claritin is what we recommend and then we watch and we see and we don't use that food again we don't eat that food again and then we do some testing okay okay so that's the move so

29:33Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:that's what you're looking out for um okay that's very interesting do i mean do you have any questions on top of the allergies i will say this have you heard of these grow happy boxes

29:45Dr. Ari Brown:there are a lot of brands that have like dusting of all of the proteins yeah they have all the

29:50Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:allergies and they have they have little packets of them and so instead of keeping track of the foods we got the ours was called grow happy and we just took one out and gave her a packet of it a day do you like the idea of that i think conceptually it's fine there are a lot of brands

30:04Dr. Ari Brown:yeah okay are out there that do that um it's fine it's a it's a micro dose of all of these different food proteins um i would also encourage your child to enjoy food so that's the reason why I'm like, because I really want them to start eating real food. Right. Like make the shrimp. OK.

30:24Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Yeah. Give it to them. Yeah. Which is what we did, too, because I found it to be hard to track. But yeah. OK. OK. So there was a myth that I want. I think that we we buffed three myths in this. Myth number one is when you start introducing foods to your baby, you should do it by introducing the healthy foods that you're eating in a form factor for the baby, not like they need to eat specific A, B, or C. So that's myth one. Myth one was food is fun under one. Okay. Yes. So another myth is food is not fun under one. Food should be fun, but also So the nutritional components are very important. Myth number three is that you should not avoid introducing allergens to your child until a certain age.

31:22Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:You should start slowly introducing specifically eggs and peanuts at six months each three times a week in small doses. So any other myths that we should debunk or that you would like to debunk as it comes to babies and eating?

31:40Dr. Ari Brown:No, I think you did a great job. I just want to clarify one thing, though, is that when we talk about peanuts, people always say, but I can't do peanuts because it's a choking hazard. So how do you introduce peanut products? So either peanut butter or you can – and it has to be really thin because like a big glob of peanut butter is a choking hazard too. So thin spread of peanut butter or add some water, make it into a peanut sauce. Or you can buy like peanut flour and then you can mix it into things.

32:08Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Okay. That's smart. Those are good hacks. Yeah. We did, I think, pancake and we did them in little slivers with peanut butter in them. Yeah. And these little muffin things. Excellent. Chopped up. Okay. Now we're going to talk about the bottle really quickly. these are two listener questions and we have to cover them because milk and food is, I guess, interchangeable. When should bottles be fully cut? I tell people at that one-year well check, it's time to go. Okay. And then my son is 15 months and right now at the one-year mark, we switched to cow's milk from formula, but he refuses to drink it.

32:44Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:If he isn't drinking any milk at all, what do I do?

32:46Dr. Ari Brown:Eat yogurt and cheese. I mean, these are things that really keep parents stuff at night. So I think they deserve a little bit more commentary if you want to hear more. We do. Yeah. Okay. So because your child under age one is drinking breast milk or formula, and odds are even if you're breastfeeding, it's going to be in a bottle. Like parents really cling to that because it's their meal, right? But once your child turns one, milk is a beverage. It's not a meal. It does have nutrition in it, but you don't have to rely on it. That's why it's okay to get rid of the bottle because your kid doesn't have to chug eight ounces in 10 minutes.

33:27Dr. Ari Brown:I am fine with them sipping it out of a cup. So it's not as important. It's very different. So view it differently. And that said, if your child doesn't want to drink milk, it's fine. And they just need a source of fat, calcium, vitamin D. A nice, you know, plain or Greek yogurt or cheese is going to be a serving that's going to get them what they need. They don't have to drink the dairy. They can eat it.

33:52Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Okay. There it is. They don't have to drink the dairy. They can eat it. So that should help people have peace of mind. What's the latest trend in hiring, you ask? Skills-based hiring, which emphasizes capabilities over education and direct experiences. According to experts, this leads to faster hiring and better job performance. Well, if you're an employer who's adopted skills-based hiring, the best way to ensure that your applicants have the right skills is ZipRecruiter. ZipRecruiter recommends smart screening questions to help you hone in on the perfect match for your role. And right now, you can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Alex.

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35:11Dr. Ari Brown:The basic answer is three meals and two snacks a day. The reality is, is one of those meals is going to be a meal and the rest is going to be picked at or once every three days they eat. But the goal is offer three meals and two snacks a day.

35:25Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Because people, myself included, we think you're not getting enough food because dinner goes untouched.

35:30Dr. Ari Brown:but that's okay yes because the meal might have been breakfast or it might have been that mid afternoon snack which that's why snacks are really important because that may be the best meal of the day that snack may be the meal so you got to make sure that when you have the opportunity that you're

35:49Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:offering nutrient dense foods so they do not need to clean three plates and all the snacks throughout the day no i think that is so important that's the number one thing i think about all the time where I'm like, there's no way she can go to bed. She's got to be starving. And it's like, she's not. To me, what's also really important is like, I don't know where I feel like I've heard it, but I feel like I've heard like kind of, you should lean away from snacks if possible. But the idea that snacks are actually a critical part of a baby or toddler and a child's nutrition is great to know. Because yeah, I don't know why.

36:28Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:At some point I felt like I'd heard, like meals over snacks, but the snack can be the meal.

36:33Dr. Ari Brown:Sounds like it. Okay. Let me, let me add a couple of points to that. So one is that kids still need to eat about every three hours and you're going to have a pretty grumpy kid if you have to get them from one meal to the next. So, and there is some, you know, maybe there's an argument to be made for adults too, to have five small meals a day and not just three, but I don't take care of adults. So we're going to go back to the kids. So that's why every three hours feed them something, right? Now, they may not eat much breakfast, but man, they eat that mid-morning snack. So that mid-morning snack is not to just tie them over to the next meal.

37:15Dr. Ari Brown:That may be their best meal. So that's why I kind of explain it in those terms. And the snacks need to be, again, something nutrient dense, probably something with protein in it and not just a carb, but just depends on, you know, the day and where you are and what your kid's doing.

37:33Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:So good segue to our listener question, asking about the carbs versus, you know, what, what food groups are we feeding? So how much protein, carbs, fats do our babies need? I swear my baby only eats fruits and carbs. And I'm worried about her getting enough of a variety of nutrition.

37:48Dr. Ari Brown:Yeah. I try not to focus too much on the macronutrients, um, but I'm going going to give you just a rundown for babies and then toddlers. So babies under a year of age, breast milk infant formula is like 50 % fat, about 40 % carbs, and then about 8 to 10 % protein. And then a toddler still needs quite a bit of fat, believe it or not, but probably more 50 % carbs, 40 % fat. So those are a little bit reversed. And then, you know, maybe 10%. There's a range. But anyway, less protein, maybe maximum 20 % protein in their day. So you still need a lot of fat in a toddler's diet, good fat, because their brains are growing so much.

38:39Dr. Ari Brown:So that's the distribution. But you're going to just drive yourself crazy if you're trying to find a completely balanced meal at every meal and every day your child, it's going to be a wild card. What are they going to eat? What are they not going to eat? So I would try to look at how did I do over the week? Did my child eat this week? And as long as you're trying to find that healthy balance and being mindful that they might need more fat than we do as adults, I think you've accomplished your goal.

39:08Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Okay. So I consider myself pretty well versed in food. Like I understand my food groups, but even I need examples right now. So I can imagine the listener might too. If we're going to focus primarily on carbs and fat, but maybe you don't want to do chicken tenders, like, can you give me some examples of what would be ideal foods? Sure. Carbs?

39:26Dr. Ari Brown:Well, let's be clear about what carbs are, because it turns out not everybody understands what carbs are. People think carbs is like rice and bread. And guess what? Your banana is a carb, as are your green beans. So she won't eat a green. Okay, well, whatever, you know, fruits and vegetables are carbs. So when I'm saying, you know, they're eating a lot of carbs, I'm not just telling you to eat pasta and whatever, mac and cheese, right? Right, right. So they do need a decent amount of carbs, including fiber, which is really important. And they do need some good fat. So yes, there is fat in white meat and red meat.

40:05Dr. Ari Brown:There is fat in there. So it's not just protein. And eggs are a great source. Dairy, that's where that milk is coming in or yogurt. That's a good fat. Nuts, avocados, fatty fish. I mean, those have fats in them. They also have proteins in them, but they have fats in them as well.

40:26Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:We eat a pretty high fat diet.

40:30Dr. Ari Brown:just in a non-tradition,

40:31Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:in a way that people don't traditionally think about fat. Well, I like, yeah, I think, and I agree on that too, especially with carbs, but I do think I wanted to delineate between like, I don't know, chicken tenders and fruit for a source of carb.

40:47Dr. Ari Brown:Yeah, let's aim for just chicken without the tender part. Or I love actually, I'm glad you mentioned the air fryer. I love sticking like panko breadcrumbs and like flaxseeds. to air fryer like air fryer it looks like a chicken tender like you can frame it you know

41:04Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:i eat them yeah all the time with the breadcrumbs yeah cheese is another really good one yeah so dairy products yeah very very high fat um what um i i had something but i i forget it well okay i like this question though now that we're kind of talking about chicken tenders etc are there foods parents should limit or avoid at this age when they're one to two years old um i think specifically here we're talking about how important is nutrition i think is the general question there red dyes for example have a lot of attention this year and last year so what are some things you know and and then there's also this cheerios today are not the same cheerios we had 50 years ago there's more processing happening so what are foods that people should avoid giving their kids

41:54Dr. Ari Brown:I would say it's important to look at your own diet first because we want your child to eat what you guys are eating. But that makes an assumption that everybody's eating a healthy diet. So look at your own food first. And then, that said, offer a variety of foods that as much as you can prepare in the home. I know that's a hard leap for parents that are working especially. It's real hard, but the more you prepare in your home, the healthier it's going to be. Fresh foods, if possible, minimally processed if you're going to buy something that's in a package. And try to avoid fried foods. Chicken tenders, they're probably fried, and they're also processed.

42:39Dr. Ari Brown:So again, I'd rather you make your own chicken tenders with chicken and panko breadcrumbs in an air fryer, if that's what is a hit for your child.

42:50Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:and I do think this is one thing that we found so fascinating was you see goldfish and you associate that to be like that's what I'll give my little kid but like we don't eat goldfish so I love this concept of what would you eat because a lot of adults we try to make healthier choices and so the idea of feeding your kid the same way that you would want to feed you I you know I think is important like why why would the kid have the chicken tenders for dinner but then mom and dad have like a chicken and veggies. Right.

43:21Dr. Ari Brown:And you are building a foundation for your child. Turns out to be really important. No pressure. But you are building a foundation for lifelong eating habits. And this is your opportunity for those little tiny taste buds to develop a broad palate. And this is why, you know, this is what kudos to you guys. This is why Tate eats a variety of foods because that's what you're offering her with your seasonings, the way you have prepared it. So your kid should not be eating bland foods, not eating mac and cheese and chicken tenders while you're eating the beautiful salmon that you've prepared, right?

43:57Dr. Ari Brown:Like let her eat what you guys are, you know. So important to have a foundation of a broad palate and healthy eating habits because that's what is going to be their go-to, their default as they grow up and they make their own food decisions.

44:13Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Totally. Yeah. If everyone you know was talking about GLP ones and you are this close to trying them, but then you remember you prefer to keep needles as far away from you as possible and you prefer natural options over injections. Well, this podcast is sponsored by Veracity. Welcome to an all natural way to slim down, get energized and sharpen your focus. Veracity is revolutionizing health by tackling the root cause of so many issues, which is metabolism. With Veracity's drug-free, clinically proven, and doctor-formulated solutions, you can support your body's needs to live your healthiest life.

44:52Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:If your goal is weight loss, you need to try the Metabolism Ignite, which is the number one recommended GLP-1 booster and GLP-1 alternative. No side effects, no allergens. It's also natural, safe, and plant-based, and it's an aid that results in 85 % reduction in hunger and is clinically proven to lose on average nine pounds in 90 days. So make the switch to GLP ones the natural way head to veracityhealth.co and use code two parents for up to 60 % off your order. Once again, that's veracityhealth.co for up to 60 % off and make sure you use our promo code two parents so they know we sent you. I think speaking to our specific situation is like food has not been a pain point for us.

45:42Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:And to build off what you said in terms of our strategy, like our strategy has really been like make food that tastes awesome and is healthy that both we eat and she eats. And like, if we just slap like a piece of turkey in front of her, like that is going to just inherently get shut down over time versus like this morning we made egg bites and it was eggs, cheese, peppers and bacon. And like, I love them and she loved them and great balanced nutrition in them. And so I think that like one, why it hasn't been a pain point is because we've been very intentional about it to what you said. We do cook pretty much everything at home and we've read up a lot on, you know, the to-dos and the to-avoids.

46:42Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Sorry that we're tooting our own horn here. um the second thing that i found to be incredibly beneficial this to be much more recently is having her part of the meal process and having her cook now every morning we cook together and oh boy does she like see what's going on and know what's going on from like actually wanting it as it comes out of the oven to like under even just more developmental things like today after we put the cottage cheese in the eggs she like when i put it down and funny enough this was caught on video she took the lid she like as i was putting down she's grabbing the lid and like slamming it on so um i'm sure i'll get in trouble here for like being too talking good about us but i've found that this is an area that like hasn't been a pain point and i think we've done the way we've done things could be helpful to others.

47:38Dr. Ari Brown:Honestly, I think you guys are great role models. I mean, so I'm going to give you guys, I'm going to give you guys brownie points. You don't have to toot your own horn. I love the videos with you guys cooking together. And I think you're sending a great example for families who can't even fathom having their toddler in the kitchen and helping them. And you've proven that you have a toddler who knows like how to mix and knows how to put all the ingredients in. Like, that's awesome. And she's invested in the process. And so that's one of the things I always tell families, and we can talk about picky eaters, but one of the tricks is your kid is going to be much more interested in eating something if they've helped, you know, put the effort in to make it.

48:19Dr. Ari Brown:They're going to be invested. They want to know how it turned out.

48:22Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Totally. And where we're lucky is we have time. I mean, granted, this is happening at 5 a.m., but like, you know. I know so often it is so much of parenting is so hard, but starting with breakfast. There was a great LeBron James story about him turning his nutrition around. At some point in his career, he realized, hey, what I put my body drastically affects my performance on court. and the follow-up question was like, what advice do you have to someone else who's starting to turn their diet around? He's like, just start with breakfast. Oh, I like that. And so like what I found with Tate is I didn't know what to do in the morning.

49:09Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:And so it was like, okay, we have at some times like three hours to kale before the day gets going. And so that's where a lot of the cooking came from. So now it's like truly an hour of activities. I do think the conversation around food is really important. because as you're saying, like you are building the foundation for them. But why can you help draw a line of like, is it a gut microbiome? Like what are we, what's the underlying root here of what we're developing by putting healthier food options into their stomachs?

49:42Dr. Ari Brown:Well, you're correct that the microbiome is influenced by your dietary choices. So, I mean, I wish I could eat more, you know, kefir and kimchi and all these other things, but at least I eat yogurt. But like there are some really good microbiome foods and also prebiotics, which are fiber, which helps that, you know, nurturing the microbiome. So those are really important. But you're right, your metabolic health, that builds over time or deteriorates over time. And so if you are building a foundation for healthy food choices, that's just going to be what your child is used to eating. So I think that's the bigger commentary is that your child has certain likes and those are based on the experiences they have with food, those early introductions to foods.

50:34Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:And we know they're going to go to birthday parties and they're going to have pizza and they're going to have chips. And of course they are. But we always just say the meals that we can control will control. Yes.

50:44Dr. Ari Brown:And I do think we have to be realistic. And I always say this to families, like everything in moderation, like everything in moderation. So sometimes you are, you know, on the go and you're going to have a snack that is not a great, like whatever. Totally. But it is what it is. It's just that's not your staple. And actually that brings up a comment I want to make about what's in your pantry. Like foods in your pantry are a staple. If you have to go out and get it, it becomes a treat. So that's my go-to when I talk about ice cream. Like, it's okay to have ice cream. Your kid can have ice cream every once in a while.

51:20Dr. Ari Brown:But don't have it in your freezer because then you're going to eat it all the time. Right?

51:24Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:So make that something you go out and get. Okay, I like this topic of sugar. So this is a listener question. Is it important to stay away from sugar until two years old? I've heard that it's linked to healthier outcomes when the child's older. Right.

51:39Dr. Ari Brown:I think we are learning more about sugar and being more mindful of sugar. There are natural sugars. which are fine to eat. You just want to add sugar. And I do want to warn people about pouches because pouches are really popular. They're a go-to snack and they're pretty healthy-ish, but they usually have some form of fruit in them and added sugar. So just be really mindful of things that are maybe hidden sources of sugar.

52:06Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:I want to plug a brand here, unpaid, but they're amazing. One that we just love. I know who it is. Yeah. So I hear you on the pouches. There's a company called Serenity Foods. Oh, right. They do meat pouches. So like their pouches are like bison and sweet potato and salmon and like kale and these amazing blends. And those, we rarely ever, ever, ever use pouches at this point. Like, yeah, we rarely do. But when we have had to use them, that Serenity has been great. a ton of protein, a ton of fat, healthy carbs, healthy fat, versus different than those sugar-loaded ones. So I found a different one.

52:52Dr. Ari Brown:I like that.

52:53Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:There's the consistent rhetoric out there, which is do not give your child sugar for the first two years of their lives. And so just to clarify, your answer on that is as long as it's natural sugars, you're fine. but no added sugars um so that's kind of number one and then um is that correct yeah and no artificial sugars too okay thank you yes no added and no artificial sugars and then my um kind of less, maybe more niche follow-on question to that is what about adding more natural sweeteners? Is that something we should avoid? Like when I make her banana oat muffins, should I put some stevia in there, put a bit of maple syrup in there or no?

53:55Dr. Ari Brown:I probably wouldn't do stevia. If you're going to add a natural sugar, I mean, if you're going to do like agave nectar, you're going to do maple. I mean, you know, sometimes it really does add a little bit. I would just not do it for everything because we don't want that sweet flavor to be in everything. But I think in moderation, I think it's probably okay.

54:18Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Okay.

54:19Dr. Ari Brown:Because then they'll start to just want that, right? Who can blame them? We want to celebrate all the different flavors. Yeah. So everything doesn't have to be sweet.

54:28Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:I think that's a good point. Okay. I'm going to move. Oh, I think this is a good one. Well, I want to do the red dye. Yeah. So what's going on with red dye? Because it became the... I don't know anything about it. I just see red dye is the enemy. We're taking it out of food. Should we avoid red dye? Then I notice in Tylenol and Ibuprofen, they're now advertising dye-free. So what is the deal with red dye for children?

54:54Dr. Ari Brown:There are a lot of issues. I'm not going to go into all of them. I'm just going to say that there are health concerns, there are behavioral concerns. And do you really need to eat something that is artificially colored? I mean, I think that's my hard stop is like, does it really need to be artificially colored? And so that leads you to, is this an ultra processed food, which probably is baseline is not going to be as healthy as something that's fresh. So there are a variety of health concerns. Some dyes have been removed. I think that's great that other medications, there have been dye-free products that are on the market.

55:35Dr. Ari Brown:Now consumer demand is going to drive more of those. And I think that's a step in the right direction. Okay.

55:41Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:So you're saying if possible to avoid. Sure. For sure. Okay. Okay, great. We all have those moments as parents. You're out at a restaurant or a playground and all of a sudden your baby needs to be changed and they need to be changed right now. Your options are to change them in a tiny stall or the backseat of the car, but you need to do it quickly and there's no time to line up all those tiny snaps and that is where Magnetic Me comes in. These outfits use magnets instead of snaps, buttons, or zippers. You just line up the closures and you're done in seconds. You guys, magnetic me makes dressing time so much easier and more enjoyable for everyone.

56:19Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Parents, I'm telling you, you need these in your life. It is my favorite gift to give. Somebody gave it to me whenever I was pregnant with Tate. We absolutely loved our magnetic me. Plus here's the thing. The patterns are adorable and the fabric is so, so, so, so soft. And plus moms do not sleep on this. If you are breastfeeding, there's also like magnet closures for you it's the easiest most convenient way to breastfeed with their pajamas so make more time for connection with magnetic me these are a must have to make changing time easier on you and the baby right now new customers can get 15 % off site-wide at magneticme.com go check out all their cute prints you guys they are truly adorable don't wait get 15 % off at magneticme.com so now we're going to move to picky eating because I think the number one thing parents deal with when we're out of allergy land, we're not out of choking land, but it's not top of mind because they can chew their food more.

57:22Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:And one thing that I saw, because maybe you told me, was they get more picky because now that they can chew their food, they're not so focused on chewing it. Now they do want to pick They want to pick their foods and assert their autonomy. So enter really picky toddlers when it comes to eating. So why do toddlers suddenly refuse foods that they used to love?

57:44Dr. Ari Brown:I'm going to be honest. I have no idea. But they all do it. They all do it. So you can feel better that you're not alone in this. And they will want one thing for a few days or a month, and then they don't want it anymore. And I don't know. Maybe they're like, I'm tired of eating this. I just want to move on. But the one thing about picky eaters and the reason why toddlers are not interested in trying new foods, it's a term called neophobia. They're afraid of new things. And if you think about evolution, like these blueberries didn't kill me, so I'll keep eating those. But those red berries, I don't know what they are, right?

58:24Dr. Ari Brown:So it's a fear. It's true. And so that may be why they just eat the blueberries because that's safe. I feel good when I eat those.

58:34Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:That's really sweet. I didn't think about that. They're afraid. Is it not, though, build into what you were saying earlier on the importance of eating what your child is eating? Because if they then see you eating the red berries, it's going to just incline them to do the same?

58:50Dr. Ari Brown:That's exactly right. So if you don't eat your vegetables, don't expect your kid to eat vegetables. You got to eat them. you gotta be the role model right or you didn't die you didn't die you're safe what did you just

59:01Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:say well we or hide them in his food he hides which is what i do like the the egg bites like means he shreds broccoli broccoli cauliflower peppers into it rather than serve them independently because when we serve them independently she doesn't eat them funny enough i don't eat them but when we blend them we both eat them yeah fair so in terms of picky eating habits when it comes to a toddler? What's normal and what's not? Right. So in general, you can expect that your

59:33Dr. Ari Brown:child's going to eat one really good meal in a day or once every three days, they're famished and they eat really well. If you get a child who actually eats well at every meal, wow, that's a win, but I wouldn't expect it. And they don't eat calories per body weight. They don't eat as much as your baby did. So you have to kind of be prepared for that and not worry that your child is somehow going to be malnourished because they're not eating. If they're hungry, they're going to eat. If they're not hungry, they're not going to eat. So you provide the healthy meal. That's all you can do. They're the ones that are deciding to eat.

1:00:10Dr. Ari Brown:And we should repeat the mantra. You can't make a toddler eat, sleep, or poop on the potty. It has to be their idea.

1:00:17Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:So that's where this where it comes in of like, you make the healthy meal, you put it on the plate, they don't eat it, you don't go try a different meal that they're gonna they're not hungry, because if they're hungry, they will eat it.

1:00:28Dr. Ari Brown:Yes. So parents worry, and then they base that, you know, they bake, sorry, parents worry, and then they base their decisions on that concern that their child is going to be hungry, or they're not going to sleep at night, or they're going to shrivel away whatever and so then they start becoming a short order cook and so they make a different meal because the kid didn't like the first meal or they kind of chase them around the house to try to get them to eat or offer food 24 hours a day which i don't recommend if your child's hungry they're going to eat don't worry about it trust that if they're hungry they will eat

1:01:03Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:and the beauty of it is if we're all eating the same thing then you just eat it like i eat her played all the time when if she's if she's like said no and we're off to the races then i'm just like okay that's mine so i i do like i do like this can i ask a question yes like adults like i'm not picky on particular is what i say but like if i don't like something i'm actually not going to eat it so is there a time when a toddler like would be hungry and not eat it because they truly don't like something and and to build off of that i want to i just want to add like a specific example. Like I think if we put a plate of broccoli in front of Tate, she wouldn't really eat it.

1:01:46Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:And she would like choose to hold out until I think she'd 100 % try it, be like, ah, this isn't for me and hold out until like either the next meal or something new came in front of her.

1:01:59Dr. Ari Brown:Exactly. So I like to use the word selective. So you're a selective eater. I am. And there is a point where it becomes like a feeding aversion, and we can talk about that. But in general, kids may be selective eaters because they don't like the color or the flavor or the smell or the texture. And so one of the things which it sounds like you've done beautifully is called bridging. And so you bridge from their comfort color or texture into something that's palatable. and a comfort color or texture or whatever that you know is going to be a hit. So she doesn't like broccoli when it's sitting there on a plate looking like broccoli.

1:02:43Dr. Ari Brown:But when you stick it in the eggs, which she likes, she'll eat it. Yeah. And so it's just like learning from the broccoli example.

1:02:53Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:You don't give them the plate of broccoli again. Right. You try it a different way.

1:02:58Dr. Ari Brown:And this is a trial and error. And we all have our own food preferences. Right. Like I love creme brulee. I hate flan. It's the same ingredients. I just don't like it jiggles. Like I don't like that, right? Like we all have our quirks. So like that's a thing and that's okay. So your kid may have a specific preference and you can bridge. And that's where, you know, the air fryer and the, you know, whatever. Maybe they like crunchy food. So you're going to use panko breadcrumbs. Maybe they like smoother food. So you're going to make a sauce or a smoothie or a frittata or, you know, whatever you're going to make.

1:03:35Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:So just try them in different ways. But there is such thing as them not liking the food. But if they are hungry, trust they will eat. You would never just offer the plate of broccoli five meals in a row because that would be evil. Right. Yes. Nor would we ever offer one food. We do try to give three options. Any thoughts on like a safety snack or a safety food?

1:03:54Dr. Ari Brown:Yeah. So, okay. So say you guys are having, I don't know, we'll go back to the salmon. Say you're having salmon and you're having a vegetable or something. And she maybe eats salmon, but she's not going to eat the vegetable. Okay, well, maybe you always offer her favorite berries that she likes to eat. So that's your default. Or she gets a side of yogurt or whatever. Like that's okay to have one, you know, hit that, you know, she's going to eat, but she doesn't get seconds and thirds of the berries because she didn't want to eat the vegetable or didn't want to eat the salmon. Okay. That's good to know.

1:04:34Dr. Ari Brown:That's fine. But I'm not worried that she's not going to sleep at night because she didn't eat dinner. Right. Right. And I think that's the mindset a lot of parents have is, oh, I need to feed them because. They're starving and they're famished and it's like, no, they're, they're okay.

1:04:48Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Okay. And so not seconds or thirds of the favorite foods. Good to know. Okay. What's the number one thing parents do at mealtime that accidentally makes picky eating worse? Is it what you just said?

1:05:02Dr. Ari Brown:I think talking about the food. I think that's the big fail. Like don't make a thing about the food. Don't even talk about it. Just talk about your day. Talk about activities. because they're very smart and they're listening and they're watching. And if they know you want them to do something, they're absolutely not going to do it because then it's a power struggle. Then it's no longer about the food. Then it's about the power. Oh, I love that.

1:05:28Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:So just here's your food, here's our food, moving on. Yeah. Oh, that's great. Okay, so we're not going to – I mean, we just talked about this. We don't react to a lot of things. It's so funny how life works where like this self-fulfilling prophecy, like the nature of how that plays out in so many facets of of day-to-day whether it's like with us and work or with your babies and the biggest pain points you deal with and you just gotta be confident and trust the process yeah you make it a big deal it's

1:06:01Dr. Ari Brown:gonna become a big deal parenting's a mirror have a good game face um yeah no kidding that

1:06:07Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:we have to do that when she does a little it gives us a little love tap on the face we just don't react. Okay, this is this is the last question. I think this is a good one. So when should you introduce a multivitamin if you have a picky eater? Any suggestions on the best multivitamins for kids? Do they need a multivitamin?

1:06:26Dr. Ari Brown:That's a great question. Most kids, even your picky eaters do not need a multivitamin. As long as you get to a variety of foods. And again, look at over a week, that's pretty good. They don't need a multivitamin. Most people, all people need a vitamin D supplement. But as far as multivitamin, they don't need that. If you have a child who truly has a feeding aversion, who is being evaluated for a restrictive eating disorder, those kids, yes, they need multivitamins. And I don't have a brand preference.

1:07:02Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:And I think that that's, um, that's probably a really interesting thing to unpack is like on this curve you have, okay, you know, like, are you doing everything as a parent to best position your child to eat, but we can only do so much. Sometimes some children are easier with eating others are harder, but then there does become a point where, as you said, like it, what was the, what did you say? What was, what did you call it?

1:07:32Dr. Ari Brown:Disordered eating. Oh, a restrictive eating pattern.

1:07:35Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Like if you, if, if your child, yeah, I'd love to hear more about that. And like how you draw the line between this is a, a toddler being picky and we got to do everything we can as parents just to adjust and accommodate versus like we've crossed the line.

1:07:52Dr. Ari Brown:This is a really important topic. So I want parents to hear this is a lot of kids are picky and selective eaters, but you cross a line into an actual eating disorder or feeding aversion when you can't name five foods that your kid eats. You should be able to name at least 10 or 15 foods. That may be it, but that's a variety. Less than five foods, that really is an issue. And they may have significant texture issues. They avoid eating a certain color, flavor, smell. Like it's a no-go. Those kids really probably need additional help and support to identify if they actually have. it's it is a form of an eating disorder but it's a it's an avoidant restrictive eating pattern and some of those kids can get identified as early as age three so I'm always on I'm on the lookout for those kids and on the front line that's what we're looking for is is your kid just a picky eater it's fine your child will be fine or do we really have an issue that needs help and by the way there are professionals I default to I am not I am not the feeding specialist and that's when i make a referral to a feeding specialist to get help

1:09:11Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:totally kids totally i mean that makes but that okay so under five foods that they eat that is like a really good tip to know i didn't really know this was a thing yeah yeah i actually

1:09:21Dr. Ari Brown:had a kid who only ate one particular type of ice cream wow and that was no that's all he ate like he just ate ice cream it like that was yes yeah yeah so that that definitely qualifies and yeah you need to talk to somebody about that.

1:09:38Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Okay. I mean, that is like so fascinating.

1:09:40Dr. Ari Brown:And the other point that I'll make is that some people will have their child drinking a lot of milk and then they don't eat any food. And you really need to be careful of that is again, milk is a beverage. It's not a meal. So you need to put a cap on it, two cups a day, and the rest needs to be food and then water.

1:09:58Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:And are these, are you saying an actual one cup

1:10:01Dr. Ari Brown:measurement a cup is eight ounces okay right so not more than okay so not more than eight ounces a day milk no 16 16 ounces a day she's saying two cups but i'm cautious about saying that because people are like it's going in a bottle and so when i say ounces people vision bottle and i actually want it in a cup yeah you want it in a cup yeah yeah okay okay so yes so what are the

1:10:22Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:three what are what are the the key things a parent should do if their child is a picky eater

1:10:29Dr. Ari Brown:First is try bridging. So figure out what comfort texture or comfort color or flavor and work with that to kind of make a food look more like that. Be willing to offer them, you know, one go-to food, but the rest of the foods are things that the family is eating. And if you can't name at least, five or ten foods that your kid is willing to eat, you definitely need to check in with your pediatrician.

1:11:00Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Okay. This was very helpful. I mean, eating is, I think it becomes your world, right? Like, not your whole world, but a big part of your world. You like forks and things like that. Like, we learned to use the forks.

1:11:11Dr. Ari Brown:Do you want to talk about spoons really quick? Yes.

1:11:12Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:I would love to because we did something unconventional here, and now we're dealing with a very interesting situation.

1:11:18Dr. Ari Brown:What is that?

1:11:21Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:I would say that we never, we were very hands focused family. She ate with her hands up until she made the decision that now she wants to eat with the fork and spoon because she sees us doing it. So that transition to the fork and spoon is just happening like at 18 months. And it's just like it's never been a fight which i've just like absolutely loved but now the point is like she will like she'll want the fork or if i give her like last night we were at mendocino farms and i like went and i took the chicken to just give it to her and she like swatted away and then i put it on the fork and gave it to her and she ate it and she'll also use her own fork and spoon But like this is new and on her own doing.

1:12:15Dr. Ari Brown:I wouldn't have expected her to use utensils under 18 months. Okay, good to know. Okay.

1:12:20Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:So what do you want to talk about with this fork and spoon? You're not behind.

1:12:24Dr. Ari Brown:Okay, so this whole baby-led weaning, which I support the concepts of baby-led weaning or baby-led feeding as I like to say that. However, the purists do not believe that parents should offer food on a spoon. And I'm here to say, I don't care what you do. And some foods have to be served on a spoon. It's real hard for your child to pick them up. And yes, you can give them a preloaded spoon at six months. It's real hard to get it in their mouth. So the point and the reason why people are anti-spoon is they're afraid that parents are not going to see the child's satiety point and that they don't want to eat anymore and that you're overfeeding.

1:13:08Dr. Ari Brown:And I trust parents to watch their child's cues. And when your kid doesn't want to eat anymore, they're going to turn away or they're going to spit it out. So just watch your child. But you don't have to do all the feeding with a spoon, and your child doesn't have to do all the feeding themselves. Six to nine-month-olds are not very proficient. It's okay to help them if you feel so inclined.

1:13:29Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Yeah, and I think that that's how you get yogurt and cottage cheese in the mouth, is a preloaded spoon. So some people say, okay, so the purists are anti-spoon. But I feel like the purists with anything, just like they take a great concept and idea and they just take it too far. Okay, I'm happy to know. So at 18 months, though, it is normal to start wanting the fork in the spoon because you see mom and dad doing it.

1:13:55Dr. Ari Brown:Sure. Sure. And they should be able to, from a fine motor skill standpoint, be able to stab the food with their fork and get it into their mouth.

1:14:04Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:That is so funny because we are starting to stab the food. Okay. So this is the time for that. And I actually need to get more forks, but okay. I love hearing that.

1:14:13Dr. Ari Brown:You're right on time.

1:14:14Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Okay. So fork and spoon are good and you can preload them ahead of time and that is just fine according to you. Because if they're full, yeah, I mean, we don't take bites. We don't want that. okay is there anything else we missed no okay well dr brown as always you were fabulous full of information food is not fun under one it's it's fun but it's important it's important and also fun rephrase food isn't just fun under one there we go it's it's more than just fun because like food's fun right now still but it's also like everything yeah um thank you very much Tell people where to find you.

1:14:55Dr. Ari Brown:So I'm on social media at Ari Brown MD. And then you can find my books online, Baby 411, Toddler 411. And you can find me over at 411 Pediatrics here in Austin. She's the 411 girl.

1:15:10Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:That's how we find you. Thank you so much. Thanks for listening. That's my pleasure. Thanks for listening to another episode of Two Parents in a Podcast powered by Just Media House. If you enjoyed the show, don't forget to like, subscribe, comment, rate, and review. Stay connected on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and Facebook at Two Parents and a Pod. Welcome to our home. Sorry it's so messy. New episodes Mondays and Thursdays. This episode is brought to you by Athletic Brewing Company. No matter how you do game day, on the couch, in the crowd, or manning the snack table, Athletic Brewing fits right in.

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