Tylenol during pregnancy, vaccines & what really matters for your baby’s health (with Dr. Ari Brown)

15:05Dr. Ari Brown:George Foreman grill. Yes. That kind of thing. Tastes pretty good too. It tastes better.

15:09Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:But I do that anyways because I'm constantly afraid of food poisoning. What's your thoughts on wine, alcohol? Okay.

15:16Dr. Ari Brown:Now I'm going to tell you I like having a glass of wine. And so I'm not going to lie. I get it. But also, I hate to tell you that there is no safe level of alcohol at any stage of life. This is, I mean, this is legit. And then when you take it to the next step, which is during pregnancy, there's only risk and not real reward. So I don't recommend that during pregnancy. Sorry. Don't say sorry to me.

15:44Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Nothing sounds worse. You know what I mean? Like I'm like, oh my God, the thought of it. But I know a lot of people wonder. And I know that they say over in Europe, you can have a glass of wine or two glasses of wine a day and it'll never reach the baby. And here's the thing. All I gather is hearsay from people, right? Like I have no idea. So that's why I wanted to ask you.

16:03Dr. Ari Brown:I do want to point out one thing though, because this is a really important, I think that we all as parents, particularly moms, but dads get credit too for having this guilt. Like I feel guilty that I did X, Y, or Z. And I will say one of the really common things about pregnancy is that 50 % of pregnancies are unplanned. And the reason why more babies are born in August and September is, guess what? People are having holiday parties. And so, I mean, this is legit. Thanks for giving it to me, baby. Totally. It's real. And so the reality check is you might have been drinking when you conceived this child.

16:43Dr. Ari Brown:and then you look back and go, oh my gosh, I had a wild office party and then whatever. Anyway, so do not look back and go, oh my gosh, I did this to my child. Again, we all are doing our best. But if you do have some inkling that you might actually not be actively trying not to get pregnant, you might want to consider drinking at the party. And also, please start taking prenatal vitamins. If you are childbearing age, start taking prenatal vitamins because you never know. And it's important.

17:18Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Okay, that's interesting. And I think the other thing is I have a lot of friends and this happened to me with Tate too. There was like a week where you don't know you're pregnant because you don't have the symptoms yet. Right. And so you do you go out to dinner and like you have some glasses of wine. And then you do you look back and you're like, oh my gosh but it's like you didn't know right and I like that you're saying it's okay um yes

17:40Dr. Ari Brown:it is okay um there is something also and I'm not going to get too technical here called the all or nothing um experience when it comes to um effects of the embryo and the fetus and so sometimes those experiences end up being devastating and you never knew you were pregnant and you have you know a a miscarriage you didn't even know because then you just have a period. So sometimes if you, you know, end up having some event and you did, you know, have a bunch of drinks or whatever, maybe that's going to be like, didn't work out for the baby anyway. So, and you might never, never even know. So there are sometimes, you know, some impacts and then no impacts.

18:25Dr. Ari Brown:So just don't look back, you know, just don't, okay, you move on and going forward, maybe, you know, you now, Now you know, so you're going to be mindful of the choices that you make.

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20:13Dr. Ari Brown:Yes.

20:14Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Yes, okay.

20:14Dr. Ari Brown:Okay. I know I may alienate some people, but raw milk is a bad idea. Louis Pasteur is rolling over in his grave right now. So the good things that, you know, the nutrients that you're getting in your raw milk, okay, but the risk is all of the diseases. And I want to give you guys a visual that may gross you out. And that is that birds and cows sometimes hang out together out on farms. And during that big bird flu outbreak, they actually contaminated some of the cow feed. And then the cows ended up with mastitis with their bird flu. And guess where that milk is coming out? It's coming out of their teats.

21:03Dr. Ari Brown:So that is absolutely contaminated raw milk. So if you want to have that visual in mind, this is one of the many reasons raw milk I would not recommend ever to anyone. In general. To anyone. Pregnant or not. To anyone. But I would absolutely not recommend it to somebody who is pregnant. And for the same token, soft cheeses, again, you have this potential for food poisoning. And so pasteurized cheeses is, and I would always recommend. The other thing I will say is sometimes people get, you know, these great smoothies that have, you know, some things that are not pasteurized in them. And you just, you may not be thinking about that, but when you're pregnant, you might want to think about that a little bit more.

21:51Dr. Ari Brown:Yeah. And also while we're talking about drinks, sometimes the question comes up on how much caffeine can I have? Yes, that is one. Yeah. So just your regular cup of coffee, cup of tea is fine. Would not recommend an energy drink. Not recommend those highly caffeinated drinks because it elevates your heart rate. It elevates the blood flow. And all of that is, you know, going through your placenta and everything. So we don't want to get your baby, you know, amped up. Right.

22:21Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Yes. Okay. And then what about Tylenol, ibuprofen, things like that?

22:26Dr. Ari Brown:Wow. Wow. Wow, so timely. Okay, so I've been so busy the past couple of weeks. Let me tell you, it's been an interesting journey on this conversation. But ibuprofen is not recommended. And the reason why it's not recommended is it can actually impact your platelet function. And so we don't want you to be taking ibuprofen. The Tylenol issue is an interesting one. And I'm going to say that the ACOG guidelines, which is the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, have always recommended, and I'm going to use the correct word, acetaminophen, and I know how to pronounce it, acetaminophen.

23:13Dr. Ari Brown:That product you want to use if you have a significant issue for pain or fever. It's not meant to be used lightly. It's meant to be used judiciously. and you want to use it at the lowest dose possible. But of all of the pain medications, it is considered the safest. You always want to talk to your doctor if you're having a problem. But there are situations where you may need that medication. The interesting point that I want to make that I think doesn't get, you know, you hear a sound bite or you just see a quick reel or whatever, But I think the important point that people need to realize is that fever during pregnancy is potentially a problem and can impact the fetus.

24:00Dr. Ari Brown:And so a lot of times people have fever because they have an infection. And so the infection can actually cause different developmental outcomes depending on the stage of pregnancy that you're at. So the infection as well as the fever because you don't want to cook the baby. and so that's why we don't recommend hot tubs at high temperatures. So we don't want to have fever in pregnancy. We don't want to have infections in pregnancy if we can avoid it. And again, these things are sometimes unavoidable. But interestingly, that's when you're giving the Tylenol. So this is not a causal situation. So if you're looking at is there an increased risk of whatever you're looking at, if you're looking at autism or other neurodevelopmental outcomes, it may be the situation that happened in pregnancy that led to it and then all people are talking about is the medication but it there is not a causal relationship that's very interesting yeah

24:56Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:so so let me let me make sure that i'm i'm digesting what you're saying the right way because it feels um very interesting that like it doesn't feel like we're actually getting a black and white answer here. It is, hey, during pregnancy, you want to be avoiding painkillers if possible. Of course. If you do need to take one because, you know, you are going through XYZ. Or have a fever. Have a fever, then Tylenol is safest. But the way you think about Tylenol as someone pregnant versus someone not pregnant should be very different. correct okay okay which like that to me is is you know and i think just given the the polarization of social media like that's just not i think a lot of what we're seeing online which is you're seeing either one end of the spectrum which is you know avoid this thing at all cost it's linked to autism what are you doing versus the other end of the spectrum where you're seeing videos of people taking tylenol to kind of try and prove the the other side wrong and so i think that's a very helpful and timely, timely response.

26:08Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:How, what do you say to people when they, how do you recommend pregnancy when you have a young baby, like parenthood in general? How do you tell people to best separate real medical advice versus like internet noise? Cause we do, we see a bunch of just 30 second reels, which is Tylenol causes autism and people like I took it while I was pregnant, you know, and it freaks them out and it scares them, but they don't have 24 hour access to a pediatrician. So how do people delineate between the two?

26:39Dr. Ari Brown:But you do, you do have 24 hour. So, so here's the thing is who are you, who's in your algorithm? So, so literally I just, I just came back from the American Academy of Pediatrics national meeting and they have a new, and I'm very involved with the AAP and I'm a spokesperson. And they have a new campaign of here are pediatricians you can trust. And we have a whole list and we have a QR code. And if you go to healthychildren.org, it says here's the whole group of people you can trust for evidence-based, real talk information. And so I think, you know, no matter what you're doing online, whether it's about health or, you know, I don't know how to fix your car or whatever, Like, where's the source, right?

27:30Dr. Ari Brown:Like, that should be the very first question that you ask yourself is, who is this source and why should I trust them, right? So, but yes, at least from, you know, pediatric guidance, I am in a cadre of people who have used our voices to try to help families navigate the difficulties and real challenges of sorting out fact-based information. and it's getting harder every day.

27:58Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:It's getting harder. Where do we find the list? Because I want it and I know the listeners are going to want it.

28:01Dr. Ari Brown:So go to healthychildren.org. Okay. And it'll say, you know, trusted pediatricians, whatever. And you can have the entire list of people to follow. And of course, I'm going to tell you, you should follow me. And you and plug yourself.

28:13Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:And maybe we put that in the show notes. That would be great. Okay. Because I think it's so important. And it was a large part of the excitement of us having you on is your reputation as a trusted source. Thank you. The pedigree of training that you do have, which is why we love getting into the meat and bones of all this. I have a question to potentially ask on your behalf. Okay. So Alex has long documented that during her pregnancies, she deals with very intense nausea. and I'd say, you know, it feels like generally pretty, pretty severe pregnancy symptoms. Depression and anxiety. My anxiety immediately spikes.

29:00Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:That's how I knew I was pregnant was I looked at him and I was like, we're having a great day. And I was like, I just want to cry. I feel so depressed and I'm so anxious. And we said, it sounds a lot like when we found out we were pregnant with Tate and I took a pregnancy test and it was positive. So yeah, I would say definitely get hit with symptoms.

29:18Dr. Ari Brown:You're not alone.

29:20Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Right, which is –

29:21Dr. Ari Brown:Yeah.

29:21Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:But I think you know about nausea, but I don't think – I didn't know depression – pre-partum depression or anxiety could be a thing. I also had it postpartum, but I had it more severely pregnant.

29:32Dr. Ari Brown:I think the number is like 1 in 10. I mean, super common. Yeah. Super common.

29:37Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:And where I give Alex a lot of credit is even on the hard days, she puts her best foot forward to – I don't need the credit in the episode. yeah but but this is so sweet though no you should include it you know to do things like this morning which uh was was definitely a a slower morning like every you know waking up getting uh a walk in you know when she's having those cravings um you know in doing her best to get you know to supplement with like the protein and the cleaner foods, doing stuff like journaling. I feel like I'm saying everything you're doing, which is kind of weird, but what else?

30:20Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Go, he loves a list. What else, you know, for women who are dealing with symptoms like nausea, depression, do you think they should be doing? Or is it like this is the reality of life and you're just going to, you're just, the struggle's just going to be there.

30:39Dr. Ari Brown:out through? Yeah, I would never say that. I would never say that. And know that, you know, some people have mild symptoms that are manageable, and some of them are incapacitating. And that is not something that should be ignored. And so you absolutely need to talk to your obstetrician. And maybe you're going to end up talking to a mental health provider, a therapist, And maybe you're going to actually even need medication during pregnancy, which, again, you know, if you need it, you need it. And that is important. But these are conversations you need to have with your doctor, and you need to not keep it inside.

31:18Dr. Ari Brown:And I think that, again, this is, you know, me talking as a mom who, again, I think we all act as martyrs. Like, who made us martyrs? I don't know. But, like, I'm done with it. Like, we should not be martyrs, right? We should own ourselves and go, you know what? Self-care is really important. And I am feeling this way. And you are making such a huge sacrifice in your life, right? Because you're watching all the things that you can eat and can't eat. And you're trying to take care of this baby. And that's a huge responsibility. But at the same token, the best way to take care of that baby is to take care of yourself.

31:54Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Yeah, it is a form of self-care. I love that you said that. I haven't heard that. like a lot of people um and I follow a lot of people that talk openly about how they had to get on anti-anxiety or antidepressants whenever they were pregnant and how they struggled with it at first but then they were like it it really is the most important thing I can do for myself and so I think calling it a form of self-care is really beautiful yeah thank you for that yeah what's softer than cashmere but warmer than wool it's not a riddle it's an alpaca hoodie and I had to check it out after hearing some of my favorite podcasters talking about Paka.

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33:45Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:So what decisions during pregnancy actually affect your baby when they do come into the world? Versus not.

33:56Dr. Ari Brown:Versus not. So I think that it's a lot about lifestyle. And it turns out that before even becoming pregnant, lifestyle choices, you know, if you can plan ahead. it's always good to be kind of optimized, kind of getting ready for the race. So that's the first suggestion. And then when you are in the race, taking care of your body as best you can, which again, sometimes means sacrificing, you know, some, you know, skincare treatments or hair treatments that you're like, Oh, is it really bad to do this or this? And you kind of look at the risk benefit to maybe some vices that people have that maybe, you know, it would probably be It'd be better not to be having those vices anyway, but particularly during pregnancy because it may impact the baby.

34:47Dr. Ari Brown:Nutrition, exercise, all of those things because, you know, the more you take care of yourself, the more that you can raise a healthy growing baby inside of you. I can't give you a list of X causes Y and all of those things, but I think in general that's the message. I will say, and I know we're going to have a conversation about this later, but there are some things you can do proactively while you're pregnant, and you will get a laundry list of things that you can do. And I would highly recommend, depending on the season, if you're eligible to get the RSV vaccine, you can during pregnancy, and I would recommend it.

35:25Dr. Ari Brown:And then there's getting the whooping cough booster, and then there's getting flu vaccine. I mean, those are things that are going to come at you, again, during certain times of year, always the whooping cough vaccine. But those are things that you want to think about and talk to your obstetrician about. Okay. Okay.

35:44Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:I have a question. When you first have the baby, you're in the hospital and they offer three things. Vitamin K or D? Okay. Vitamin K. Hep B. Hep B. Yep. And there's a third. Eye ointment. Eye ointment. Do you recommend giving the baby all three of those? Yes. Okay. That was an astounding yes. Okay. Okay. good to know no hesitation and no hesitation because heppy is the one that i feel like i know i know like we're told don't like don't do that yeah and we can also talk about vitamin k and we

36:18Dr. Ari Brown:can talk about eye ointment um which one you want to tackle the heppy one first and then we can circle back to those other two um because i think people do need clarity and they want to understand the why right yeah it's scary you're in there and they offer and you're like here's the why okay Okay. So there are three ways that hepatitis B virus is transmitted through blood, through bodily fluids and through birth. Okay. So that is one of the top three ways. And if you have good prenatal care, which and we can look at worldwide countries and I'm not judging the U.S. versus other countries, But other countries do have better prenatal care, not meaning that we don't offer it, but that people don't access it.

37:06Dr. Ari Brown:So you probably are going to have this ideal, perfect, you know, prenatal care because the minute you turn pregnant, you're going to run off and get your OB appointment. That's not true of everybody who delivers a baby. I wish that was true of everybody. But in your first trimester, you are going to get tested to see if you have hepatitis B or not. and if you don't hopefully you're going to continue through your pregnancy and still not have it but hepatitis b is known as the silent epidemic and the reason why it's known as the silent epidemic is that you can acquire hepatitis b you don't have to be a high risk person it's not from having sex all the time or being an iv drug abuser or being a health care provider there are there are other things my mother-in-law got hepatitis b from having podiatry surgery hate to tell you.

37:55Dr. Ari Brown:So yes, so it happens. It can happen incidentally, blood, bodily fluid, and that doesn't mean it's sexually transmitted. It could be on a toothbrush. It spreads. It can be blood on the playground. You don't, like there are ways, and again, I don't like to gross people out, but there are other ways to acquire it. So that said, you can get tested for hepatitis B in the first trimester if you have great prenatal care, which is awesome. You can get tested at delivery again, But the problem is there is a certain subset of people who don't know that they got hepatitis B during pregnancy. The test is falsely negative.

38:33Dr. Ari Brown:And then you have potentially given the baby hepatitis B at delivery just from being born. And that kid has a 90 % risk of having chronic hepatitis lifetime. So that's the reason why. And then you can say, well, you know, if we have good prenatal care and we can test, you know, can we custom tailor, you know, our experience? And there is an argument to be made for that. But when you universally recommend it, you universally protect all babies. And so that's why that recommendation is there. And it's not just a U.S. recommendation. It's actually the World Health Organization that recommends it.

39:13Dr. Ari Brown:So I think we kind of live in a bubble in the U.S. and we think, well, why do we do this and why do other countries do whatever? The other countries who don't have universal hepatitis B recommendations at birth are the countries who have universal health care. And so that means that everybody gets prenatal care. So, like, I think it's, you know, some of it is just we want to protect everybody. And so that's the argument to be made for the birth dose. But the reason why, you know, you don't want to wait. Say you decide I'm not going to do this hepatitis B at birth. I feel very strongly about it.

39:46Dr. Ari Brown:We've tested. We're negative. so why would you want to give hepatitis B at two weeks of life or two months and, you know, starting at that point? The reason why is that there is an exposure, maybe not to you, maybe to a family member who doesn't know they have it. Again, you don't always know you have hepatitis B in the early timeframe. So that's why we recommend it. And that's why we want to protect all kids. Or blood on the playground. Yeah. I mean, you don't, you never know. Like Like kids get bloody noses, child care providers. Like I can come with a laundry list of theoretical ways that your child could get it.

40:22Dr. Ari Brown:And since this came out in 1991, that's how long we've had this recommendation. This is not new. It's not new, people. 1991, we have essentially eliminated hepatitis B in kids in that age group. So we've not really seen hepatitis B in young children and adults since we have started. So it's actually a generation where we've removed a really bad disease, which, by the way, causes liver cancer, too. So this is a cancer vaccine. Wow.

40:52Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:And I think it's a pretty natural transition into continuing the discussion on vaccines. And I think a lot of the parental mindset that resonates with our peers is we as parents want our babies to be very, very safe. And I think 20 years ago, 10 years ago, I think the news that people saw was, you know, pretty unequivocally supportive of vaccines. And I think now that there's there's just a lot of confusion because we're seeing a lot more. We're seeing a lot more people come out and address their concerns around around vaccines. And our personal view on this has been like. Tate has all her vaccines.

41:52Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:This isn't our battle to fight. Yeah. Because this isn't our training. Yeah. And and so it's very hard for us to go against. No, but we're curious about it. And when you get online and you scroll and you're a new parent, you see a bunch of fear mongering, a bunch of misinformation on vaccines and you don't know where to go. And it's also it's not just, you know, I don't want to just keep this in social. It's not just social media. No, it's not. You're now getting news, several news publications that are that are. Sorry. Let's ask. Let's ask. OK. So what's the deal with vaccines? What's the long and the short of vaccines from two very confused parents who see a lot of information?

42:33Dr. Ari Brown:No, I love it. And, you know, and I've listened to some of your stuff. And I think you guys are absolutely rational and seeking answers. And I really appreciate that. Because I think as a parent, you just want to do the right thing for your kid. And you want to protect them. And, you know, circling back to this guilt, like, well, what if I do this and then this happens? And so the way I always try to frame these conversations is, well, what if you don't put your kid in the car seat and then you're in a car accident? So the if when it comes to vaccines is these diseases are horrible. And what I can't, you know, again, you know, I can provide imaging for you guys that you guys don't, you know, the things that you don't see.

43:22Dr. Ari Brown:But as somebody in pediatrics for 30 years, I've seen some stuff, real bad stuff. And these are vaccine preventable diseases. And so, you know, I watched a kid die of chicken pox. You know, I have been working in the ICU with kids who have whooping cough. It is the scariest, most heartbreaking thing. And then when I look back at, well, we don't want our kids to have these diseases. is that's the part that I think parents don't really appreciate it. And that's because vaccines do their job. And so it's like that waiter that, you know, shows up and they're wearing the black and they take your plate away.

44:00Dr. Ari Brown:And like suddenly you're, you know, it's like they just do their job and you don't see it. They're just invisible. And vaccines work that same way. Like they have quietly done their job. And so when parents ask me, and again, I've been doing this a really long time, you know, well, why do we have so many of these diseases? So in my career, I've watched three different forms of bacterial meningitis be vaccine preventable. So we have had Hib meningitis vaccine that came out in the 80s, which I was in medical school in the 80s. We had Prevnar, which is strep meningitis, come out in the 90s. And then we have a teen, preteen meningitis for an Iseria meningococcal.

44:42Dr. Ari Brown:And so when parents are like, well, I want to do this one or I want to do this, I'm like, which form of meningitis do you want your kid to have? Like literally we're protecting you against, you know, we used to do spinal taps all the time when kids and when kids would come in with fevers, which, and I do have to like, I'll share this with you guys is when I was in my training, it was routine when we had a, you know, young child come into the ER with a fever of 104. And it wasn't obvious where the source of the fever was coming. We would do spinal taps because we would be worried that these babies would have meningitis.

45:15Dr. Ari Brown:I haven't done a spinal tap in, you know, decades. And that is not standard of care in the ER. And so if we see these vaccine rates go down, these diseases will come back. And so I don't want to kind of scare people because this is not, you know, like, I don't want to use scare tactics for, you know, fear mongering. But the reality is, is the next generation of pediatricians had better start learning how to do spinal taps again because when your kid who maybe even is vaccinated has a fever because we're going to see it in the community that's going to be standard of care again is everyone's going to get a spinal tap to make sure they don't have meningitis so so the diseases are real you don't see them because of vaccines and when you're trying to protect your kids as parents i can't emphasize enough that this is such an important and safe and effective way to do it and the studies have been done, but you do hear a lot of sound bites that sound really scary.

46:12Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:And so...

46:13Dr. Ari Brown:Really well said. Thanks.

46:15Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Very well said. But to kind of think about, all right, well, what would the other side say back to that? And I think the question would be, okay, so phenomenal that rates of disease where vaccines or administrative gone down, but what about the effects of those vaccines and creating new types of problems? And the one that I feel like always comes up and came up earlier today is autism. And so now we have autism rates that are at all time highs. And so like how, and I think it, I, I, maybe you'd agree, maybe you disagree. It does feel like the state of health in the U.S. is in the worst place it's largely ever been.

47:08Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:And so what do you think is driving that? What do you think vaccines roles in that is, if anything? Yeah.

47:20Dr. Ari Brown:So, you know, we were talking earlier about Tylenol and we're talking about causality. Yeah. And I think that's the key word here, too, is, you know, things have changed in the past 20 years, more people are drinking bottled water, more people have access to a Whole Foods grocery store, does Whole Foods cause autism? You know, like, like, that's the, that's the question. So you're saying, okay, you know, we have more people diagnosed with autism, and we have more vaccines, but that doesn't mean that more vaccines are causing autism. And I think that there are a lot of factors, and we can talk about autism at length, because I think it's a really important conversation topic, but those two things are not related.

48:04Dr. Ari Brown:And so if you're seeing an increase in, you know, whatever disease rate or whatever, it's not because we have more vaccines available. Those two things are, and there are actually studies that have shown that as well. So like, you know, the science has been looked at, and this is not the first rodeo. Let me tell you, And like, again, I go back to I've been doing this for 30 years. So this is 2.0 version. 1.0 version was in 1998, 1999. And then Jenny McCarthy showed up. I was around for all of that. Super fun, let me tell you. But, you know, that was 1.0 version of I'm worried about this. And when those questions were raised, which, you know, you should ask questions.

48:49Dr. Ari Brown:I mean, that's what science is, is we are continually asking questions. Totally. And why I have to update my books every two years. Like, always ask questions. So important. So those questions were raised. And then science, which is not very good at PR, by the way. We're not very good at PR. So, like, they should have gotten a good crisis PR person in at that point. But what science said at that point was, huh, that's interesting. Let's look at that. And so then it took until 2004 for all of the governing medical organizations worldwide, because again, this is not a U.S. thing, worldwide. And in 2004, came out and said, these are the studies.

49:31Dr. Ari Brown:We have looked at this. We have looked at these questions. And there is not an association here. And so the science really came to the table and answered it and answered it pretty thoroughly. And we have another 20 years of that science because we don't just close the door. And there's nothing that has continually, you know, nothing has validated that other theory, right? So we're coming back to this version 2.0 for a variety of reasons and why it's happening at this moment. But I would say social media and algorithms and silos have not helped because now it's amplified those messages. but this is not a new, this is, this is like a bad Hollywood movie that was never good to begin with.

50:12Dr. Ari Brown:And now it's a remake.

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52:52Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:I think there'd be no better form of content if you would ever be open to it. for you to talk to someone who is anti-vax and to have a healthy two-way conversation. Because a big thing for me, based off what you just said is, and I think what we've lost the ability to do in today's day and age is ask questions. And I think people are scared to ask the vaccine question because then we get pinned as anti-vaxxers and I'm not an anti-vaxxer. I'm just a, let's make, as you alluded to, science has changed a lot in the last 20 years Let's make sure that something, whatever's being administered, isn't something that we thought was saved 20 years ago and isn't today.

53:31Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Yeah. So. Love that. But let's. You're vaccine curious. We're vaccine curious. Yes. I know what. Yeah. I think that we're definitely vaccine curious. it's very nice to hear you firmly standing behind the medical system as it pertains to the treatment of children because you hear a lot of people on one end sharing a different side of the story. It's scary. It's scary and we need the people with your pedigree who understand the science, which we don't, to make sure that the reason why we're here is being shared.

54:23Dr. Ari Brown:Can I jump in and say one thing about that? Is that it's very hard to know the numbers when you're looking at your social media feeds or having conversations at dinner parties with friends. And so if you look at the – like this is data. This is data, okay? If you look at U.S. vaccination rates and parents who choose not to vaccinate their kids, like completely not vaccinate their kids in the U.S., what do you think that percentage is?

54:55Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:They choose to not fully not? Not vaccinate.

54:58Dr. Ari Brown:Completely reject vaccines for their kids.

55:02Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:So my impression is it would be very, very, very, very low. the only reason why that would not be would because of the same subset of people that don't have access to the good like the the pre the point well taken the pregnancy care so if you're going to say um what's your percent uh under a percent how much under one percent under one

55:35Dr. Ari Brown:percent oh 1.2 percent ding ding ding you win 1.2 percent so all of this chatter all of this chatter about i'm not vaccinated blah blah blah blah blah those are very loud voices but the actual numbers are really small and yeah what are we seeing yeah in that 1.2 percent of children and how that compares to they reject kind of traditional health care yeah i mean there there There is a demographic, you know, and those people just completely reject traditional health care. Yeah. And vaccines are part of that. So, you know, the numbers are concerning, but the numbers are concerning because we know that as vaccination rates fall.

56:20Dr. Ari Brown:So say, you know, 95 percent of our kindergartners are getting the measles vaccine and it drops to 92.5 percent, which is still a really high number. the reason why we start, you know, sending out the red flags is like, hey, you actually need to have protection in the entire community to protect your child from this disease from penetrating. So if you look at, you know, here we are in Texas, and we look at the measles outbreak that happened, it was in a very under vaccinated community. So that's why public health rises to sound the alarm is like, hey, we're at 92.5 % of, you know, kindergartners, that puts us at risk.

56:59Dr. Ari Brown:So, So it turns out that part of this choice that people make, part of it is choosing to vaccinate your own kid. But you also want to make sure your neighbor does it.

57:09Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Right.

57:09Dr. Ari Brown:Because our communities rely on each other.

57:13Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Okay, that's really important. Yes. Because we have a lot of dinner table conversations with people in our communities. So that's why it's important. But that's why this conversation is important. Right. Why do you think the health situation in the U.S., particularly with children, is as bad as it is if it isn't vaccines?

57:36Dr. Ari Brown:So that's a very complicated question with probably a complicated answer. But I'm going to say I'm going to give you a simple answer. And the simple answer is this, is that when people ask me, how can I keep my child healthy or how can I be healthy? it turns out it's pretty low-hanging fruit. It's eating well, it's exercise, and it's sleep. Those are three really important things. And when you take that for a child, what you're eating turns out to be really, really important. And I think that we have foods. I mean, I think we're busy and we end up buying things that are packaged instead of prepared in the home.

58:19Dr. Ari Brown:I think if you can prepare more food in the home, I know it takes a lot of work and time. That's important. But, you know, so trying to have foods that you've prepared that are not processed and packaged, I think makes a big difference. Making sure that activity, physical activity is a part of your daily life and making sure your kid gets enough sleep, it turns out to be super important.

58:40Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:One thing that we're on big time right now with Tate is she's starting solid foods. And what we step back and realized was like Cheetos are directly associated with kids. You know, like you think kid food, right? You think like little pizzas and you think Cheetos and you think like chicken nuggets and like, that's what kids eat. But when I eat that, I feel like crap. And so we thought, and I have to give the credit to you because I don't know that I would have really thought about her diet. And we think about her diet at nauseam now because when I eat chicken tenders and Cheetos and pizza, I feel horrible and I have brain fog.

59:17Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:And so what we've really done with her is she almost eats paleo for lack of a better term and we cook it all at home. And if we don't, we read the label and we like the serenity foods because we think it's, it's pretty clean. But that's maybe 1 % of her diet at this point. Yeah. 99 % of her diet, we cook at home and she eats what we eat and it, and it's, we, We really were focused on it. But so I want to ask you, how important is the diet and what is the best thing you can do for your kid when they're starting to eat solid foods?

59:46Dr. Ari Brown:So I'm making an assumption that you eat good food. And that's, you know, that you can't always assume that parents take care of themselves. But I think it all does fall back to self-care is you all should be eating a healthy diet. And if you're eating a healthy diet, your kids should be eating what you're eating. And I tell people that starting at six months when we start introducing solid food, because parents will spend all this time making baby food for their kids, or they'll use pouches, which I don't recommend pouches, by the way. Another conversation for another day. Great to know. But they will really lean in to preparing all these healthy things for their kids.

1:00:28Dr. Ari Brown:But then the kid's eating something completely different than what the parent's eating. I'm like, what do you eat? And they're like, oh, I picked up whatever. Like, if you just make one meal for everybody, then your child actually develops a palate for the way you prepare food. And then everyone eats the same thing. So that's what I try to instill in my families and my practice. And what I tell people in my books is just let your kid eat what you're eating. But you have to assume that you're eating something healthy.

1:00:56Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:But it does matter.

1:00:57Dr. Ari Brown:It matters what they eat. Absolutely. Absolutely. And you are helping them develop this palate. And so this is the problem is that when, you know, kids are eating, and this is why one of the reasons why I don't love pouches. Well, I'm just going to say it. There's two reasons why I don't like pouches. One is your kid is sucking their food and they're not learning how to move food around in their mouth. And turns out that's an important skill. So that's number one. And number two is the pouches are usually mixed with some sort of fruit juice or something in it to make it more palatable. And if that's the only way you can get your kid to eat spinach or something, okay.

1:01:30Dr. Ari Brown:But then they start to develop a palate for only something that has been sweetened. And we want them to have a wide array of different foods they're willing to eat. And so what I typically see is if I have a child who is eating whatever bland food, then when they become toddlers, they only want to eat the chicken nuggets and the pizza. And we don't want that. We want them to enjoy food. Food is a multisensory experience and also one where you're having those key emotional and social moments with your child when you're sitting down to a family meal. So, so many reasons to take the time, make the food, have everyone eat it.

1:02:11Dr. Ari Brown:And no pressure, no pressure at all. You eat it or you don't want to eat it, but this is what we're serving. Yeah, I love it. I think it's really important.

1:02:18Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Our experience with food and her has been very, very positive. and it's been fun and and i think the day one realization was hey like as alex said we know how eating crap makes us feel and so it's created this cycle of because we're making her good food we're also eating that good food that's awesome it's nice win-win and it's been a win-win and and you know i think like one of the nicest part of it nicest parts of it is it hasn't actually been any incremental work because it's one meal for uh we're meal prepping more which is nice for the family let's take you back to food or in and it's not really food but liquid food yes breast milk versus formula what are your thoughts okay so i will say that the american academy of pediatrics

1:03:15Dr. Ari Brown:recommends breastfeeding exclusively for the first six months of life and continuing to breastfeed for up to two years or beyond should you decide to continue to do that. And I think every major medical organization around the globe would recommend the same thing. And that's because there is something special about breast milk. Breast milk is made for human babies, and it's the perfect food, and there's nothing exactly like it. However, there are a lot of reasons why women cannot or choose not to breastfeed. And my goal at the end of the day is to feed your baby and have them be well nourished.

1:03:54Dr. Ari Brown:And we are so fortunate in this day and age to have an infant formula that can approximate breast milk and help your baby grow and thrive. And so when I have families who are not exclusively breastfeeding, they're combo feeding or whatever reason choose to, you know, feed their baby formula, I remind them that they are doing a great job of feeding their baby, nourishing their baby, and their baby will grow and thrive. So this is completely guilt free, judgment free. But I would be remiss not to say, you know, if you can breastfeed, and it's an option for you. It's, you know, it's got all kinds of great things in it for your baby.

1:04:32Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Okay, I have one more question. And it's I hope it's not a can of worms. And I hope you can answer it maybe be simply, but what is your thoughts on screen time for kids?

1:04:43Dr. Ari Brown:You know, I am just literally, full disclosure, we do not have a conversation about the questions, but I feel like you're totally feeding me these questions. So like, thank you. Well, thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Seriously. And so full disclosure, I wrote the 2011 policy statement for the AAP on screen time in kids. That is so cool. Yeah. And I will tell you that like people like were throwing arrows at me or whatever, shooting arrows at me when it came out. And they're like, has Elmo ever killed a toddler? Like really? I mean, that was the question that I was getting when I was doing all the media about it.

1:05:22Dr. Ari Brown:But the recommendation for young children and screen time is kids under age two may find screen time entertaining, but it's not educational. And so be very mindful that you're not, you know, doing your baby or your young child a favor by even if it's a developmentally appropriate show, because it gets lost in translation. And so that's the point. And so as your child starts to get a little older and you do want to start some screen time, I highly recommend co-viewing. Because what co-viewing means is you're actually sitting down with your child, because when you're watching a program together, then A, it's a social experience.

1:06:03Dr. Ari Brown:but B, you can talk about it. And then it really does become an educational experience. So while most parents would love to just turn on, you know, a short form video so they can like get dinner made or take a shower. And believe me, I totally get that. Don't feel guilty about it. There are other things that you can do and other things your child can do. So I highly encourage independent playtime or talking to your child while you're cooking dinner. So they're doing whatever they're doing in the living room and you're still talking to them. And I do have to say one more thing because I love the things that you do on TikTok with your daughter.

1:06:39Dr. Ari Brown:And it turns out that talk time is so important and parents don't realize the value of it. And so when the screen is on, when it's your screen time and it's background TV or whatever, talk time goes down by 85%. And so that's what parents need. So it's not just screen time for your kid, but it's your own screen time. Watch it later when your kid is awake. Just talk to them. This is what I'm doing over here. Let's pick out this outfit. The stuff that you do is so valuable. And I'm not even sure you know that you're doing that. But you are setting such a great example for other parents.

1:07:16Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Well, thank you for saying that because I have learned how valuable it is now, right? And I have learned that there are massive benefits to it. And I do hope it helps other parents say, okay, I never thought about just sitting here and talking. but narrating if we're at the grocery store narrating making dinner to her has now become a practice for us i didn't know what i was doing but thank you for saying that yes so and limit

1:07:39Dr. Ari Brown:screen time it is pandora's box once you open it can't close it feels like it it feels like it

1:07:44Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:yeah we um we're definitely aligned on on the screen time she's not uh but it's easier said than done and you don't know like isn't it crazy like we don't if we hadn't have researched it we would have just been like of course yeah watch a cartoon um you know what my one final question is is in your 30 years you've seen a lot you've written what do you what do you call it you wrote what the 2011 what on screen policy statement policy you've written policy you're just like you're you are so in the know so my last question is there's a lot of parents listening i think their future parents and their current parents.

1:08:25Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:What is the one thing you want to say to leave the parents with? What's your one lasting thing we didn't cover?

1:08:35Dr. Ari Brown:Parenting is the hardest job and thankless job. Thankless. But it is the hardest job you will ever have, but it's also the most rewarding. So take time.

1:08:52Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Good energy in. Good energy out.

1:09:00Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Storm, zero sugar, 200 milligrams of caffeine and immunity support. Storm, energy for life.

1:09:07Dr. Ari Brown:To cherish those moments because when you are in the trenches, especially if you guys have a toddler, When you are in the trenches, sometimes you feel like you are having an epic fail. And if you look at the long game, it is the most rewarding thing you will ever have in your life.

1:09:29Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:That's really sweet. Yesterday, there was like a bunch of noise happening at our house with babies. And I sat there and I thought about this video I had seen of a mom whose all her kids had left for college. She said, I would give anything for this house to be loud again. And I thought we should really enjoy these moments. Yes. Thank you for saying that. You can't have too many reminders. Okay, so on behalf of parents, thank you. Because you make it welcoming and easy is not the right word, but you make parenting approachable. And thank you for this episode because I think people are going to gain so much from it.

1:10:06Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:Thank you so much. We really appreciate you being here. And thank you for the data-driven points, for explaining vaccines to us, for explaining breast milk, diet, all of that. I really, really, really appreciate it. This is very valuable. Thanks so much for having me. Thank you for being here. Thanks for listening to another episode of Two Parents and a Podcast powered by Just Media House. If you enjoyed the show, don't forget to like, subscribe, comment, rate, and review. Stay connected on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and Facebook at Two Parents and a Pod. Welcome to our home. Sorry it's so messy.

1:10:38Two Parents & A Podcast Hosts:New episodes Mondays and Thursdays.