Why Amazon Dropped Its OpenAI Movie; Data Center Workers Are Fighting Back

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3:08It doesn't matter how big or how small, we want to hear from you and get you answers. Okay, on to the show. Welcome to Wired's Uncanny Valley. I'm Zoe Schiffer, Director of Business and Industry. I'm Brian Barrett, Executive Editor. And I'm Leah Figer, Director of Politics and Science. Today on the show, AI and Hollywood. We're discussing Amazon's MGM Studios' sudden decision to drop the OpenAI biographical movie just as they were wrapping up production. At the same time, Google's DeepMind is investing$75 million to develop AI tools with the film studio A24. The AI and film industries are becoming increasingly intertwined, and we're ready to take a look at where this is all headed.

3:50We'll also dive into some recent controversies regarding data centers. As national and local backlash against data center construction increases, some electricians are even refusing to work on them. And they're not alone. A group of Amazon workers claim they are being investigated for speaking out in favor of regulation. And if you've been listening to the show in recent weeks or reading Wired, you know that we've been covering the unfolding internal crisis at Meta very closely. This week we had another scoop. the controversial system that tracked employees' every keystroke and screen activity has been paused after the company leaked sensitive data from it internally.

4:26We'll get into whether this series of frustrating incidents could actually lead to change within the company. And later in the show, we'll get an update on how the talks between Anthropic and the government seem to be improving now that CEO Dario Omidai isn't in the room.

4:46Okay, guys, I am so excited to talk about the business with this movie Artificial, which was suddenly dropped by Amazon's MGM Studios. So to get everyone up to speed, Artificial is a film by the director of Call Me By Your Name and Challengers, two great movies if I do say so, and it's a biographical drama about open AI and specifically The Blip, which was this moment in November 2023 when Sam Altman was abruptly fired by his board of directors and then swiftly rehired after basically the whole company revolted. I genuinely cannot believe they made an entire movie about this. It's been described as the social network, but for the AI age, the movie features a star-studded cast with Andrew Garfield as Sam Altman and Monica Barbaro as the former OpenAI CTO Mira Morati.

5:30The movie was like mid budget. I think they spent$40 million on production, but it was basically almost done when Amazon announced that they were dropping the film, saying, quote, it would be better served if it were released by another studio. The decision has been drawing criticism because it's seen as Amazon basically doing a solid for Sam Altman, who the movie portrays pretty badly. I have to know what you guys think. I have so many thoughts immediately. One, Andrew Garfield. We knew that. We knew it was always going to be him. Like playing whiny tech bros is absolutely in his wheelhouse. He famously played the Facebook co-founder who was kind of pushed out by Mark Zuckerberg in the social network.

6:10I think there's some context here too, which is that Amazon has$50 billion invested in open AI, right? So like in terms of like when they say, you know, the movie will be better served by another studio, I think what they really mean is the studio will be better served by another movie, right? This is really like arm's length at this. What really strikes me about it is something that we've known is coming and like has been happening. But the extent to which the film industry and the tech industry are intertwined right now. Amazon owns MGM. Paramount is being acquired by the Ellison family. Larry Ellison, obviously the founder of Oracle.

6:48So all these sort of tech billionaires are now sort of totally intertwined with the movie industry, which is really going to determine what movies get made and what don't. And this is like a really glaring example of that. Yeah, I mean, I can speak firsthand that there were many a Twitter Elon Musk film project that were, you know, in talks, but very difficult to get that to the screen for obvious reasons. You know, I do think the film was, everything we heard was that it was going to be unflattering for Sam Altman. In fact, the blip is pretty unflattering for Sam Altman because the reason that a lot of Sam Altman's executives turned on him and orchestrated what has been called like a coup was that they perceived him to be duplicitous, to lie, to tell different people different things based on what he thought they wanted them to hear.

7:39And in the film, it really seems like Ilya Sutskover, who is the former chief scientist of OpenAI, really comes off as the hero. He's gone on to found another company that's really focused on safe artificial intelligence. And so, you know, it doesn't entirely surprise me that this was going to be a complicated project for Amazon to champion. In addition to the investment that you just talked about, Brian, they've also struck a$38 billion compute deal somewhat recently. Anne Samaltman was a guest at Jeff Bezos' wedding last year. Like, it's personal, it's financial, it's all of these things. Right.

8:17And you sort of hope, like, the idealized version of this, right, is the same, that they would treat it the same way as they maybe treat the media industry when you have these billionaires taking over these companies, where it's sort of a hands-off, you do what you do, I trust the art, I'm doing this because I believe in it. That's not the case. It's less and less the case in the media industry as well. Jeff Bezos obviously has made some pretty big changes at the Washington Post, that there's sort of this exertion of influence that you, in an ideal world, would not be happening. Like, powerful interests have owned Hollywood companies for a long time.

8:47But, you know, this is sort of just such an overt case. Yeah, and I think that for open AI, they're really sensitive right now to public opinion. They feel like, and they're not the only ones, Anthropik feels this way, too, that AI is increasingly unpopular. there's already been some talks about like Sam Altman being ousted again before open AI goes public as soon as this year, probably next year. And so I think that they're, you know, while you might say like, oh, they can just like brush this off, they're focused on other things, like they're used to bad media articles and, you know, perhaps negative portrayals.

9:21I think that they're increasingly trying to control the message. And also the medium, right? I think there's the other deal that happened this week that drew a lot of eyebrows was Google DeepMind announcing a $75 million investment in A24, beloved indie darling, to create AI tools. Leah, I know you feel strongly and sadly about this. Yeah, but the thing is, I kind of hate A24. It's already so programmatic anyway. I'm like, ah, yes, another film in this exact sepia tone that has these exact actors playing these exact roles. The minute that I saw that it was A24 getting into bed with Google DeepMind.

10:01I was like, perfect. This was like already an algorithm waiting to happen. Of course, they're going to give it to the bots. Well, this content is made for me. I'm a huge fan of A24. However, I've talked to a lot of people in Hollywood about this because there have been all of these deals. And yet, you know, we've seen OpenAI and these big AI labs kind of hint that we will be able to produce films with AI really soon. And then you actually see an AI-generated film, and you're like, certainly not. But what I am hearing is that AI is being used more and more for like very specific purposes. It's things like storyboarding.

10:39And I believe that in the press release, Google DeepMind and A24 kind of mentioned that as like a possible use case. It's things like rotoscoping, like basically very labor intensive, specific areas of the film development process that used to take a lot of human labor and were really expensive and you can genuinely automate. Those are, you know, as far as some people think, like really good use cases for AI. And I think we will start to see more and more shots, like specific shots on the big screen that are AI generated. I think I would be very surprised if we see like a feature length film on the big screen that's AI generated start to finish and is anything other than like a one-off gimmick.

11:20there's an ick factor in realizing that something that you engaged with was AI generated and you didn't know that I actually think is important not to dismiss. And then there's the like, can it actually create something that is quality enough to appear in that type of context? I do think too, one thing that, this gets to your point earlier, Zoe, that when people see that there's a deal for$75 million, you assume that it's to train AI. You assume that it's going to be, oh, now Google's going to absorb all of A24's stuff into the Borg. But it's not that. So it is like, it's interesting that it's still controversial, obviously, but that it is really for those like trying to find those purpose built tools to support the creation of non-AI film, which gets lost.

12:07Yeah, you need a human. I think there was fear that like Google would be training its models on the A24 catalog. And that's specifically not part of the deal. I think probably Google wanted access to that IP if I had to guess, but it would be a really bad brand move for A24 to give them that access. We've talked about how everything's connected. File one more connection under this. A24 has Thrive Capital as one of its investors. That is a venture capital firm owned by Josh Kushner, brother of Jared Kushner. Thrive has OpenAI as a major investment, holds a major stake in SpaceX. Warner Brothers about to be owned by the Ellison family.

12:45Oh, just a lot going on in terms of everybody owned by anybody related to everybody. Film industry trying to cozy up to AI. There are other people that hate it for all sorts of different reasons, too. Beyond creativity concerns, there is an ongoing pattern that we've been keeping an eye on, the sustained and increasing backlash against data centers across the country. Today, more than 40 % of homes in the U.S. are within five miles of an operating data center, according to a Pew Research Center analysis. And the construction boom just keeps going as the big AI companies devote billions and billions of dollars towards infrastructure to keep up with the demand.

13:22Wired has reported about residents pushing back against data center construction in their communities from everything that it brings, from higher electricity bills to water scarcity, noise, you name it. So workers that are, in theory, the ones implementing these projects are actually pushing back, too, in any way they can. Have you guys been following this? Yeah, it's been interesting to see this evolution. I think we've talked a lot about communities pushing back, and that remains an important story. But we've had a couple of stories on Wired, and there have been stories elsewhere about, you know, people who are directly involved.

13:58Carolyn Haskins, Wired staff writer, had a great look at how electricians, right? Electricians are crucial to building data centers. Some of them are now saying, wait a minute, does this make you a sellout? Does working on a data center mean that you are kind of betraying broader principles, not just electrician principles, just human principles? You're missing the best part of that story, which was when the electrician said that it's really hard to date once he tells people that he's an electrician who works on data centers. It's like Cybertrucks. It's like owning a Cybertruck. It really did remind me of that.

14:28Working on a data center is the new owning a Cybertruck. The difficult thing about this, I think, I mean, so yeah, people don't want to live near data centers. Like they spike your energy bills, they're loud and bright and take all sorts of resources. Like I think that makes a lot of sense. In terms of countrywide economic initiatives, data centers in some ways feel like all we have. Am I going to get skewered for saying that? I'm just like, this is like the big thing. AI is the big thing that America is betting on. And I think it's complicated to like try and slow that down or roll that back rather than try and push for them to like be less horrible to live near.

15:14But I think here's the thing. I agree. This is what's like the building of data centers and investment in AI is the U.S. economy at this point. And when that goes away, it's going to be really, really painful. I think a lot of the pushback, though, which is that there's not really much direct economic benefit for you locally if a data center comes. Usually when you have like, oh, they're bringing a railroad into town, at least you get added commerce from the railroad, right? This is what happened. I'm old enough. This is the one railroad example that I'll accept. Yes, good. I made it. So I think that's part of it.

15:45I think at the same time, you know, you've got people inside these companies who are leading the charge. So it's not just people directly affected. It's people who actually stand to benefit from this stuff, both the electricians, people inside Amazon. For example, some Amazon employees recently urged the Seattle City Council to regulate data centers. So even people with presumably a financial interest in this stuff are pushing back. I get what you're saying, Zoe, but I think there is a certain, it makes sense to me that people are saying, wait, hold up, because it's not an economy that everybody's able to participate in.

16:16No, totally. I want to be clear. I completely understand the pushback. If one of these were built in my neighborhood, I would be pushing back. I think it's totally legitimate not to want to live near them. I just think the situation is complicated when so much of our economy now hinges on this industry. It's not a reason not to regulate, but I think it's going to be very complicated to roll it back. I've also been curious, and Leah, I'm curious on your perspective on this, just to see which politicians have really— I was kind of struck that Bernie Sanders has become a really vocal opponent to data centers.

16:50Yeah. Senator Bernie Sanders and Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, AOC, they introduced the Data Center Moratorium Act, which would halt the construction of new AI data centers until there were like actual national safeguards. This sounds in so many ways like a very baked for left wing issue. But shockingly, this is pretty bipartisan. There are folks from all sides of the aisle getting involved because their constituents are reaching out and going, what are you doing in my name? What are you doing in my backyard? How is this benefiting me? How is this hurting me? So it's I think the thing that I've been most shocked by is the bipartisanship of this.

17:29It's interesting because I feel like, and this is purely my speculation, but just based on how OpenAI talked about data centers, really came out in front during the first day of the Trump administration kind of championing big data center build -out projects. I was like, I'm reading Chris Lehane, the company's chief global affairs officer, previously very high up at Airbnb and a political fixer before that, as like this was something that he and OpenAI might have thought was going to be really beneficial for the company. It was like an America first build baby build kind of message. We're giving jobs to everyone.

18:05They just misread the moment. They did not realize how toxic this issue was going to be. And now it's very hard to kind of change their stance when they've been releasing press releases every time there was a new data center. Now it's like, uh-oh, we got to, you know, keep it quiet because people really don't like this. And to your point, they can't like roll it back either way until you can put data centers in space because they need the compute. Which, by the way, is going to be really difficult to do. If not, impossible. Zoe, is there any chance that the sort of internal dissent, right? Electricians saying, I don't think so.

18:39Workers inside of companies saying, hey, we don't like data centers either. Any chance that that changes anything at all in terms of the trajectory for these buildouts, for these companies, for the spending? I would be very surprised. I don't want to say absolutely not because we have seen examples where, you know, famously Google workers kind of all came together, pushed back on Project Maven, some of the like censored search projects for China and what have you. and actually got those launches paused. Just real quick, Project Maven was working with the Pentagon, basically, right? Using Google tech for the DOD.

19:12Exactly, exactly. So yeah, it's happened before it could happen again. What I would say is two things. One, the pushback we've seen from the hourly workers has been minimal when you look at the entire workforce. They are bringing in thousands of peoples. I've heard that they're paying much higher rates than people typically get on these jobs. And so I think for an industry that has historically, like, needed a lot of work, I think there will be people who are willing to, like, work on these projects. And then we'll hear little pockets of dissent and pushback, which, again, is newsworthy and relevant.

19:46And it's not no one. But, like, I still think they're able to hire thousands and thousands of people. I would also say that on the corporate level, while we are starting to see more pushback, more vocal opposition from corporate workers in terms of what their companies are doing, it's still at a far lower level than it was around 2018. Especially when the job market is radically different now for these engineers. And I think a few years ago, there was a turning point, too, where Google fired a bunch of people for protesting, whereas before they had sort of allowed it, you know, tacitly sort of let it happen.

20:20I will say there is one thing that will get management to listen to employees, and that is a colossal screw-up, which we saw at Meta recently. We've talked before about how Meta installed software on employee devices to track every keystroke, all the screen activity, basically full surveillance on its employees to help train AI. This week, Wired broke the news that the company apparently left potentially sensitive information from those sessions exposed and accessible to anyone inside Meta. So if you're a Metta employee, everything you did on your screen could be viewed by any of your coworkers.

20:56Can you imagine? No, and I feel like we have to just like back up a little further even and lay this out for people. So Mark Zuckerberg feels like he is behind in the AI race. He invests billions of dollars in building up this new AI lab, spending so much money on specific talent, giving them so many resources to, like, catch up and build frontier models. Then the company says, we're spending so much on the AI buildout that we actually have to lay off a whole bunch of you, 10 % of the workforce. 8 ,000 people. Right, 8 ,000 people. Then they say, by the way, you're going to have surveillance tech installed in your laptop to track your keystrokes, whether you like it or not, to train the models that that fancy AI lab that just, you know, was connected to all these layoffs are trying to build.

21:45And then, oh, by the way, we left all of that data exposed accidentally. But we will be holding a hackathon in a few months to increase morale. The one thing that came out of this that is maybe a silver lining or a good thing is that Meta did announce that they are pausing the data gathering program while they investigate what exactly happened here. But it's a pause. It's a pause. They did say pause. Then we updated that story later that very night. And like they made it very they had not said anything company wide about the leak. We had been hearing about it from a bunch of different sources.

22:17They were still keeping it pretty locked down. And then late at night, we finally got the message that they had sent out. And they very much said, we're going to evaluate, you know, what happened here, make sure it doesn't happen again before we relaunch kind of the tools was the message. The guy who's been the face of a lot of those apologies is Meta CTO Andrew Bosworth, known as Boz. And it sort of burns a little bit extra because before this happened, before this internal leak happened, people had asked him straight up, like, isn't this potentially dangerous from a privacy perspective? and he told employees, actually it's tightly controlled and we use the same protection standards and storage systems and access controls as other sensitive data sets, which makes you worry about the other sensitive data sets that Meta is sitting on.

23:00Completely. I'm excited for the feature that we assigned that's titled Boz and his Metamates. I feel like Brian, I don't know, it just seems like a story that you would say yes to. It's right. Can't stress enough that Metamates is what people call each other inside of Meta. Do you guys want to hear leaked audio of Mark Zuckerberg discussing the training initiative with employees last month and why he thought it was essential? Always. We're in a phase where basically the AI models learn from watching really smart people do things. In general, the average intelligence of the people who are at this company is significantly higher than the average set of people that you can get to do tasks.

23:44So if we're trying to teach the models coding, for example, then having people internally build tools or solve tasks that help teach the model how to code, we think is going to dramatically increase our model's coding ability faster than what others in the industry have the capability to do who don't have thousands and thousands of extremely strong engineers at their company. It's giving, you're actually so good at taking meeting notes that we just, we wanted to, you're just, you're great at it. So we had to give you that job. Like you, you all are, you all are going to be so good at replacing yourselves with AI that we're going to let you do that even faster.

24:23Can we talk about another AI company? Oh my gosh. Yeah. Your dream, Zoe. You go away for a little bit of time and you're ready to just talk AI all the time. One of us. One of us. Well, it has to do with Anthropic and the U.S. government. As we know, Anthropic has had a bit of a dust-up with the Trump administration over their most advanced models, Fable 5 and Mythos 5, after the National Security Agency affirmed that there were ways to jailbreak and disable the security guardrails in these models. Since then, both sides have been trying to find a way forward. Sometimes there has appeared to be movement, other times less so.

25:05But recently, Wired's Hugo Lowell reported for his newsletter, Inner Loop, that the administration has had multiple calls with Anthropic in recent days, appears to be making some moves, some encouraging moves. But it's mainly all due to the fact that they don't have to interact with the company's CEO anymore, Dario Omidai. This quote is going to stay with me forever, you guys, because the administration is very excited that Tom Brown, Anthropics co-founder and Anthropics public policy chief Sarah Heck, have been leading the outreach. This is the quote about this that we have from an official. I'm never going to get over it.