MAD//Fest LIVE - how to ride the storm with Britain’s leading retail CMO’s

0:28Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Uncensored CMO. how do you operate successfully as a marketer in these very challenging times? I've got the CMO from Veri, from Boots, from Audi and from Morrisons all talking about the challenges they face. It's a really, really exciting conversation. And I know you're going to get tons out of it. And for a bonus bit as well, we're wandering around Madfest trying to catch up with a few people finding out what's going on as well. So I managed to catch up with the Heineken CMO as well to find out what they're doing at the moment. And also an exclusive for you from JC Deco and Specsavers and System 1 who are launching some brand new research.

1:00live from Madfest stage. So there's a lot in this episode. I hope you enjoy it. I certainly had loads of fun making it. We're going to do something quite special in the next 20 minutes. We're going to record an episode of the Uncensored CMO live here, and you are the audience, and you're going to be participating. Does that sound good? Now, I've got four very experienced, very talented CMOs to introduce and have a conversation with about how to market in difficult times. And I'd like to and I'd like you to give an enormous mad fest, hash, unsent to CMO welcome. I'm going to introduce them one by one.

1:36First, and let's see who gets the loudest cheer, because they're a little bit competitive. We've got Jessica Myers from Very. Everybody.

1:53You've brought your crew, haven't you? I can tell, right? How much of the audience did you bring? Oh, nobody. It's just a natural shout. Exactly. Okay. Second, we have a man who currently is unemployed, but used to be the marketing director of Audi, Adam Zavales, everybody.

2:21I've been told, by the way, not to mention where he's going for his next job. we won't talk about that I promise alright number three our CMO Alex Rogerson all the way from Morrison's ladies and gentlemen

2:40welcome Alex now last but not least he's been on the stage before or a few the wonderful Pete Markey from Boots ladies and gentlemen

2:59Now, it's fair to say it's been a... Oh, by the way, just a quick thing to say. Do me a quick favor. In the next 17 minutes, just head over to wherever you subscribe to podcasts. Uncensored CMO. Give it a subscribe, if you will. Thank you very much. Plug over. Right, it's been a challenging time for marketers in the last few years. I think, you know, unprecedented times and all that sort of thing. Jess, let's start with you. You've recently joined a rather large online retailer a few months ago, haven't you? I have. That must be quite challenging. I mean, talk about picking your moment. Well, I think there are serendipitous moments that come together.

3:37So before I was at Vary, I've been at Vary for nine months. My entire career has been in financial services. So I have worked for large retail banks, challenger retail banks, so really always in marketing roles. And a wonderful opportunity came up to join Veri. And if you were here earlier, you would hear me speak about how Veri is a multi-category integrated retailer. So we offer retail department store online for our customers, but we couple it with financial services and flexible ways to pay. So I joined the organization nine months ago, and it has been quite the ride. I imagine it has been.

4:15So if you've got one tip for people in terms of succeeding in an online retailer in a senior marketing role, what would your tip be? I think the tips are probably the same no matter which marketing role you're sitting in. You know, the power comes from having that deep customer obsession and being the customer ambassador and coupling that with deep commercial acumen. Marketing is the sweet spot, isn't it, between art and science and marketers' roles around delivering accelerated business growth for the business. So whether you're an online retailer, a high street retailer or a hybrid, our jobs are all the same.

4:52We just use different tactics and different channels. Now, High Street, it's not exactly been a garden of roses, has it, the last few years? I mean, surely everyone knows the High Street is dead. Pete? Thanks, John, for that not remotely loaded question. The High Street, I think, has definitely still got a really big role to play. So I look after marketing in boots, 175 years old next year. And what we've seen post-pandemic is lots of people coming back in stores again. but for slightly different reasons. So people still come in and get their regular shot but it's a lot more about the experience in store.

5:30So I'll give you just one example, major plug for number seven. We do something called Pro Derm Scan in store. It's free, you wander in, it's a plug on to an iPhone, our beauty specialists use it and we'll give you four different areas to improve in your skin regime. I apparently have amazing pores, just so I tell you that. Four out five on pores as you can tell. But you walk away the whole regime, it's free to do that's an experience you can't do anywhere else and then you walk away with a regime that's unique to you and we did that with a number of other suppliers too we also do specific events that are only available sometimes in store for boots advantage card so i i think stores definitely have a role to play you can probably all identify with that you're a weekend or an holiday go what am i going to do we'll go to the shops go to a shopping center we'll go somewhere it's become more of an event and a moment again but i think as retailers you have to give people a reason to go it's not you can't just expect them that you have to create moments create events create opportunities and know what matters in your customers lives so the final example i'll give there's no one here that looks remotely over 40 but if you were you could wander into a boot store and get a free health mot today blood pressure check body mass index check completely free of charge you walk away with your results you do stuff with it again another reason to come out and do stuff in store um so if you forget everything else from here get a free health check get your skin scanned it's all good but reasons to come in so you need to create those moments i love the plug for boots there that's amazing now we have sat side by side ladies and gentlemen two fierce competitors although it's fair to say adam you don't currently work for audi do you i don't but we have the former marketing director for audi and we have the head of marketing as well for morrison's now a grocery is a very very competitive industry isn't it you're watching each other literally day by day competing maybe start with you adam um what were the biggest challenges when you were working at Audi and how did you overcome them?

7:17I think one of the biggest challenges way back when I first started there was convincing people of the quality. So everyone knew we were cheap, but there are people associated cheap with just poor quality. So how did we convince people of that? So everything we did over the years from like brands campaign, showing people these brands that people thought, are they imported? Are they made up? What are they? But actually, they were just as good a quality as some of the brands that people knew and love. but obviously significantly cheaper. Swap and save real families really seeing that they could save money and have a fantastic lifestyle.

7:52Very relevant today in the cost of living crisis. Showing people that are a great supporter of Britain, even though Aldi, Albrecht Discount, which is a German company, actually is a great supporter of Britain, so sponsoring Team GB. So all of these things started to layer up, and we can talk about Christmas, But all of these things started to layer up to convince people that Aldi actually was good quality as well as being low prices. So, you know, it's riders of the storm. Probably Aldi kind of created the storm in many ways because we were the disruptor who came in and shook up the market for the likes of Alex and others.

8:30Well, maybe we should continue there. You talked about Christmas and you've got, I think it's fair to say, certainly based on the system, one database, is the most successful Christmas ad of many years. I noticed you decided to leave, you know, just as you got right to the top of our scoring system, so well done. It'd be hard to, you know, leave on a high, as it were. What was the logic with that campaign? Because, you know, as far as I understand, you decided to do a John Lewis, right, which seems a bit of an insane move to do. You're a discount retailer, and you want to make the best Christmas ad of all time.

9:01I mean, where's the logic in that? It's back to, you know, how do you convince people that anything that you might perceive to be a weakness of the brand is actually, actually were pretty good at that as well. And you looked at John Lewis, who were the bellwether of communications from, what, 2010, 2011 onwards. How could we do our thing, but do it in an Aldi way? They were selling 70 pound Monty the Penguins, I think, in 2014. And that wouldn't be right for us. So the guys at McCann came up with Kevin the Carrot. You know, a seven pence carrot, you know, became the hero of our campaign. but he also worked at both a brand level and a tactical level as well.

9:41And the beauty of Kevin has been that he's been able to evolve through the years. So he's told all sorts of different stories, typically with Aldi parodying lots of famous films and going into all sorts of scrapes, but it gives longevity to the campaign, and people resonate because it goes back to those heartwarming, nostalgic things that we all look for at Christmas. Well, just quickly before we bring Alex in, I'd love to find out how Morrison's cope with this. As marketers, we love to talk about advertising, right? But tell me, how did it actually deliver results? Can you prove that advertising made a difference to the market share of Aldi?

10:17Yeah, look, Aldi's growth is well documented. But internally, we're able to do two things, actually. One was with developing campaigns, working with System 1, being able to look at what do customers think of the campaign as we developed it. but also importantly internally getting the CEO and the rest of the board to buy into the objectivity of what customers are saying. Not what we think, what customers are saying. And then the results themselves, you know, Audi had their best ever Christmases off the back of Kevin. Hence it became a very easy decision to get into its seventh and who knows what they'll do this year now.

10:52Who knows without you? It'd be interesting to see. I must ask you, Alex, obviously you're sat next to a former competitor. It must be a really interesting situation you find yourself in. But you've brought back a campaign for Morrison's. What was the thinking behind that? Absolutely. Look, it was a pure marketing science decision. So obviously, you know, more reasons to shop at Morrison's is a well-known brand line. And every time I'd be out in our shops, our customers would say, when are you bringing it back? Or our colleagues would. But we did a distinctive brand asset audit with Mountain View.

11:26and through that piece of work it was really clear that when we tested all the brand lines in the marketplace more reasons to shop still resonated still one of the highest amounts of equity in the category it hasn't been used for nearly 20 years so when we were armed with that insight it was a no-brainer to bring that to the business and bring it back as our brand line now we must talk a little bit about cost of living crisis and pricing and things like that and I just like to say Jess I was on the website earlier a quick tip by the way if you're of my age, pair of Levi 501s, less than£40. It cost more when I was 18.

12:01It's amazing. But how have you approached the cost of living crisis as an online retailer? In a variety of ways. Cost of living crisis is a real challenge for all consumers. We're seeing it especially with our very customer. We're hearing it a lot through the research groups about how they're dipping into their savings. The family budget is becoming tight. But the real interesting insight into our customer is that she is female, she's the household hero, she juggles the family and supports their needs, and she wants to make sure they're fully kitted out in everything the family needs. And that's why she comes to Vary, right?

12:36She comes to Vary because she can shop 2 ,000 brands over multiple categories, but she really values our flexible ways to pay that allows her flexibility in buying now, paying later, or spreading the cost. So us, it's about understanding how, as a responsible lender, we can support her to provide for the family, but also tapping into really interesting insights. So our customer has a passion for fashion, absolutely loves the latest style. So we've really thought about how we innovate for the customer. So we've launched things like our Everyday range, which is a value-based range for the customer, really great quality products.

13:1285 % of the range is about£30 or less. So she can get great staples, but also how can we help support her from a fashion perspective? But again, how do you buy one outfit, style it in a variety of different ways to give her real effectiveness with that? So a couple of examples, but lots of ways to get. It's about value for us, about value and buying into the value of the brand, not about driving to the bottom from a price perspective. It's amazing to have all that data. I know, Pete, from a Boots perspective, you have this incredible insight into your consumer, don't you, via the Advantage cards.

13:43So how do you use that data to make good marketing decisions? I think they said the Boots Advantage card is 26 years old this year, which is incredible. It's one of the oldest loyalty cards in the UK and one of the most well-known. And what's great is our customers trust us with that data because we know all about their health and beauty regimes really. And therefore we can use that data to serve them with the best products, the best deals, the best offers at exactly the right moment. That really matters. The team and I talk a lot about mass personalization. How do we personalize more and more of our content.

14:14When you know the brands people love, the products they love, it just makes that communication even more meaningful. We now, we've just grown the Advantage Card based by one and a half million additional cardholders in the last year. And that's come by overhauling that proposition. So you still get points, but you now get immediate discount at point of purchase with something called Price Advantage. So if you're in store online, see the little pink ticket sign, you immediately get a discount with your Advantage Card. So re-energizing, re-promoting that program has helped grow it too. And last year, we put the Advantage card on TV in our ad campaign for the first time in 25 years, the last time in Christmas 1997.

14:51It's a jewel in the crown, and it's worked really well for us. And to finally answer your point, John, I think the other reason it matters is myself and Ollie, who's in the audience and the team, we run something called Boots Media Group. So we're also, they very have a similar thing. We're also media owners ourselves. That data matters because the suppliers that work with us, the L 'Oreal's, the Procter & Gamble's, the Johnson & Johnson's, Unilever's want to work with us because we've got access to relationships and data that they don't have. So growing is important because it helps our business grow, it helps our suppliers grow, and it helps our media inventory grow as well.

15:24So it's sort of this lovely, healthy circle of growth, which is why we're very focused on loyalty, very focused on building those deeper relationships and serving customers with the right message at exactly the right time. Now, you all work in very competitive environments. You know, you've got cost increases coming at you. You've got consumers with less money in their pocket to spend. I mean, maybe I'll go to the grocery sector here because it gets very intense. How do you make the case when, you know, you work for retailers that are literally making decisions every day based on what, you know, your competitors are doing?

15:53How do you make the case for brand building and marketing? I mean, maybe start with you. Yeah, sure. I think we're quite fortunate at Morrisons. I think our leadership team are really aligned on how brands grow and how to invest to grow in the brand. So the argument's been pretty much won at Morrisons. Even though every single penny rightly is scrutinized at the moment because every penny that's spared should go into price and serving customers, you know we've grown absolute investment year on year and grown share of voice you know in that against that really tough backdrop of of every penny mattering because ultimately you know reminding your customers why you exist making your customers feel like you know proud of the brand that they work for uh that they shop with uh is really is more important now rather than less important so yeah so so it's something that the whole leadership team is aligned on I mean, I imagine Audi must be pretty challenging, right?

16:56So discount retailer, famous for kind of low margin, low price. You know, German's not famous for spending a lot of money on advertising when they could put it in store, right? So how did you convince the business to get behind, you know, sort of what might be seen as very expensive, high production, you know, glamorous? You know, you're not talking about the price in Kevin ads, are you? Yeah, I think, as Alex says, I mean, there's a lot of evidence out there. So using that evidence, bringing that evidence into the boardroom and proving it works, doing tests to demonstrate that actually it gets a return for our business as well.

17:28But what I was saying earlier around some of the gaps in what Aldi had to overcome, that required a lot of brand communication. And of course, fortunately for Aldi as a brand, price is part of their DNA. Price is part of the brand. So when you think about campaigns like Light Brand Swap and Save, even Kevin at Christmas, you can have a wonderful Christmas at a very low price. Price is part of that conversation. So it's almost, there's a bit of a blurring almost. It's not maybe that traditional that you see in other sectors of brand plus performance. A lot of it is doing kind of both jobs, even though we know distinctly in comms we're separating those messages out.

18:07So it became a kind of easy job in the end because we proved it over time. And the leadership team, very similar to what Alex was saying, the leadership team saw that and therefore bought into it and invested in because they could see the growth that was coming on the bottom line, which was at the end of the day why we're here. Yeah. Let me put maybe a little bit more challenging question to you. So you've all reached very senior positions in your respective industries and in your career. If you were a younger marketer and you wanted to achieve the kind of career success you've had, what would be your top tip?

18:39I'll start with Pete. We'll work this way around. Okay. I've got all the easy questions today, haven't I? I think the top tip is just being incredibly curious about the business you're in. The best marketers I've seen succeed go into business and just reach out, build a really strong network, connect with other parts of the business, understand how the business makes money and have influence in other, whether it's getting involved in things like diversity, equity and inclusion, or I'll give you a random example actually. So early on in my career, I got to dress up as a goldfish. So I worked for a brand called British Gas.

19:12We launched a goldfish credit card, and I got asked to dress as a goldfish with orange tights on, run through a conference giving out leaflets, and high-fiving the executive. Now, it sounds stupid, but that got me noticed. And so I think find those things that make you stand out, distinct if different, get involved with them, and just show that passion and curiosity for the business. You never know where that will take you. And get as broad an experience as you can, as early as you can. Amazing. All right, go on, Alex. Top that. Yeah, look, I definitely haven't dressed as a goldfish. Not yet. I don't know how I can top that.

19:41I'll have to try that one on Monday. Look, my advice would be, and this is specifically in retail, but I guess it applies to lots of businesses, which would be really spend the time understanding the economics of the business that you're in, because otherwise marketers can feel a little bit disconnected from the reality of the business. And I think if you spend that time to understand how the business works, how it makes money, and then how you can then add value to that and build and grow, then you'll be much more respected when you come to have those tricky conversations. It's getting harder and harder, isn't it?

20:15Yeah. Because I think those are two brilliant ones. And I guess slightly different then, early in my career, I was moving from, I mean, I was agency side, actually, from TBWA to McCann Group. And I was thinking, what should I do? What should I do? And I spoke to with one of the directors, and he said, look, Adam, whatever decision you make, it's the right decision. I'm trying to work it. What's he telling me? Should I stay, go? He said, look, I'm not telling you, but when you make that decision, go for it, you know, and don't look back. And even if it turns out to be the wrong decision, you'll learn something in those six months that will take you on to the next role.

20:51So I think whatever decisions you take, whether it's career, whether it's decisions on campaigns or strategy, just, you know, commit to it and go for it and don't think, well, should I have done that other thing? And I guess that's a life lesson that I've taken with me, you know, even now quite recently about what I'm going to do next. So, yeah. All I can say is you must have the most manicured garden known to man. I mean, how long is your gardening leave? Yeah, it's been a while. It's been a while. So, yeah, I've been getting the scissors out and cutting it. But I'm very excited about my new role, which we can't talk about.

21:25I'm going to keep in my back pocket. This time next year, maybe. You might have arrived. Jess. I've had time to think. Three things sprung to mind. So you talked about commercial. So the commercial acumen is incredibly important. A marketer cannot rock up to the boardroom and not understand how the business makes money. If you're presenting a campaign you don't know what's going to deliver, you're dead in the water. Point number two, collaboration. The most important relationship I have with the CFO, see back to point one, but when you're doing marketing activity you need to bring the organization across with you get far and wide bring people on the journey with you and the third one's be a change maker that's my third seed change maker how do you show resiliency how do you balance the art and science how do you disrupt and innovate learn test grow and keep going so commercial collaboration you've done this change no i haven't actually but i'm going to use it again you heard it here first.

22:20That's amazing. Well, we start there, ladies and gentlemen. So top advice, be commercial, collaborate and create change. Get on with it and dress like a goldfish. There you go. That's top advice. Unfortunately, we've run out of time, ladies and gentlemen, but I'd just like to give a huge round of applause for our four very willing CMOs. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with some of the UK's most high profile CMOs in retail. Now, for something a little bit different, I went around MadFest backstage to talk to a few people and find out what's been going on and what breaking news have we got from MadFest.

22:54So a couple of really interesting conversations here. Firstly, with the CMO of Heineken, and then we've got JC Deco, Specsavers and System One collaborating to break some new research on how to make the perfect poster. Here it is. I'm joined here by Michael Ghislaine, the CMO of Heineken UK. Michael, welcome. Thank you. So what's your impressions of MadFest so far? Absolutely crazy. I mean, I arrived and they were queuing literally right down the road. So I was fearing I wouldn't get in for my own speaking engagements. They let you in finally. Well, thankfully, there's a celebrity entrance around the side.

23:29But yeah, really busy, great home. Hard to believe it's only four or five years going now. It feels like an institution. It's amazing, isn't it? And there's a real buzz here, isn't there? And it's great to see a marketing event with such high energy, such good lineup of speakers and so much interesting topics to cover. You work in beer, obviously, and I believe one in four beers. And cider. And cider. Don't forget the cider. What are the challenges you've faced over the last few years? Because it's been a pretty rocky road, I suspect, isn't it, for someone in your position? Yeah, it's been heavy going, I guess, from an industry point of view.

24:04We've had COVID and, of course, a lot of industries have been adversely affected. But when it knocks out the hospitality sector or the auto home, which is where 75 percent of the value in our categories, you know, in terms of retail sales is in the entree. When that goes dark, you feel it. And then, of course, as we emerge from that and we dust ourselves down, we get hit by a tsunami of inflation. And this is it's a an energy intensive business and a labor intensive business. It's a heavy industry. So really, you know, we get knocked down. We get back up again. We get knocked down. but I'm glad to say three years down the line, we're faring pretty well.