Rory Sutherland & Rawdon Glover - How Jaguar pulled off a design & engineering miracle

0:00Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Uncensored CMO. Now I'm here at Jaguar HQ and this, ladies and gentlemen, is the new Jaguar in the flesh. It looks unbelievable. But not just in my sat here next to the new Jaguar, myself and Rory Sutherland have been on the test track to be driven in it and we can tell you it is unbelievable to drive. And in this episode of Uncensored CMO, we're going to be talking to Warden Glover, the managing director, to find all about how they designed it, how they achieved such performance and comfort, and all about their plans to launch it later this year. This is fascinating.

0:34You're going to love it. Here it is.

0:42So I'm really excited to be back here with you. And we've got a special guest joining us, Rory Sutherland as well, a big fan of Jaguar. I had six. Yeah, exactly. So you're the man to impress. Six Jags Rory. Six Jags Rory is his name. But thank you for hosting us. No, you're welcome. And letting us out on the test track. But let's start with the reviews. So obviously people have been in the car now, they've been driven around it, and the reviews have been incredible. I mean, best riding car ever, feels like an XJ. So what goes into creating the drive the way that it does? First of all, you need to have a really clear essence in terms of what is it that we need to have as that dynamic capability so it's great to have those sort of headlines but it's it's not just by chance um we spent hours distilling i guess the essence of what should a jaguar drive like i mean you've had you've had six jaguars you'll have a perspective but what we did is we said to the to the the team the engineering team the dynamicists the chassis guys these are the team that really decide how to drive said don't drive the classic cars of our history and our heritage um because we really want you to immerse you in that and and get to understand what a jaguar should be now clearly it's you know these are cars with very different technology etc but by getting into them and really understanding yeah not just in terms of okay refinement control performance delivery those things but more importantly how should a jaguar make you feel what's the essence of the brand what's the dna of the brand that's where we started and that really then has been the their challenge from then on in is okay how do we get how do we get incredible refinement how do we get a level of before we talk about power in reserve as a as a jaguar expression of old how much power do you need well you you always want to have some in reserve um how do you deliver that power we need to deliver it in a way that the driver always feels completely in control of actually what they're doing it's a lovely feeling that it's not about using resources it's knowing you have resources you can draw on it's the deposit account not the current account as i was saying you know and it's um and i think that deliberate self-restraint built into the early application of power is totally appropriate isn't it and a lot of because all EVs are relatively quick and we could have put all our effort into how do we get 0 to 60 in 2.4 whatever seconds so well actually no the impressive thing from a Jaguar is probably how it goes from 30 to 70 so yes it'll be quick 0 to 60 but actually the performance thereafter is and how we deliver that power is really important so first of all understand it and then effectively use the I guess the resources we've got are available.

3:33This is the most powerful Jaguar we will ever make, over a thousand horsepower. It's got three separate drive motors. The two at the back alone are capable of delivering 950 horsepower. So huge power potential, but it's then, don't abuse that, just understand how to deliver it and ensure that it's true to the brand. So that's really important. It's not just what you have, but how you spend it. It is, isn't it? Yes, how you use it. The real shock for me, though, was the comfort levels. Because the car is so low to the ground. It looks like a sports car. The wheels are obviously very large as well.

4:11You're expecting a harsh riding to be thrown around. But it's almost like being in an XJ. I mean, the comfort level. It's just astonishing. How do you get that balance between incredible performance and comfort? Yeah. So it's a lot about how the chassis is set up. And we'd spent hours in terms of rig testing and just finding different ways of exploring the full capabilities of what that vehicle can do. And actually, there's a lot of really interesting technical stories that we'll probably unveil at launch, just in how we've confounded some of those potentially, because you think it's got a super low bonnet, because normally what you do in suspension is the bigger the travel on the suspension, the easier you get to have that refinement to ride.

4:55but we've got a really really low on it so how have we done that and actually what they've done is and i'll i'll tease you with it there are some really just genius ways simple ways of right oh you've done that that's how that works that's why that's there and that's there so yeah there's there's just lots of um you know we talk about engineering ingenuity and that's the the challenge for our team because we're we're very very you know this car is very single-minded You know, how it looks is really important and it's design first, but it has to drive in a certain way and it has to have a certain level of range.

5:31So that's the challenge, if you like, that we've given to the engineers to say, OK, we understand the parameters. All of these things potentially conflict. We need to find a way where actually we can make them all live really harmoniously. I mean, Rory, it reminded me a bit of Will Godara's famous idea of choose conflicting goals, that sometimes actually trying to do things that appear contradictory actually forces you to be more creative and innovative. Yes. I mean, funnily enough, Roger L. Martin, the brilliant strategist, makes this point that, you know, resolving an apparent contradiction.

6:05you know an enormous amount of innovation happens when someone takes something where they assume a trade-off come at it obliquely and effectively realize that it needn't be a trade-off at all and it's a you know it's integrative thinking i think he calls it and it's a fantastic really really valuable skill but that's what fascinates me about electric cars in general which is the inherent contradiction we always assume which is kind of comfort versus performance effectively disappears. And other things, I think it's very interesting that ride and design and other things will come to the fore when, to an extent, performance is a bit of a given.

6:47So, you know, fundamentally, I think the way in which cars are evaluated needs to be... You mentioned the fact that 0-60 isn't a very relevant measure because you now have many, many cars that can do 0-60 in a time that nobody actually uses practically because it would be slightly insane. And the very metrics have to change, I think. But, I mean, the design integrity fascinates me, the extent to which you effectively design a car and then engineer to the design. Explain to me why Range Rovers, to me, and obviously, actually all of your line-up, but looks cohesive in a way that no other car does.

7:28You know, in other words, there's, you know, Everything else, you feel that actually it's been compromised to the simplicity of manufacture or, you know, the engineers have overridden some aesthetic decision. And that incredible kind of way in which, you know, a Range Rover looks like a polished stone in a way that everything else looks like a collection of parts. I find that really impressive. Well, one thing I've been noticing in all the press, well, not only is the car wrapped in zebra stripes, which looks completely striking, but you've been testing it on an ice lake in Sweden. Like what on earth?

8:04Yeah, I did wonder that too. Why a lake? Yeah, there's method in the madness. So testing vehicles on basically flat surfaces with very little grip is the best conditions for refining basically things like torque and power delivery. So for us to actually fine tune the handling of the car by taking it into those most extreme environments is optimal. And I guess, you know, in simple terms, if it can do what we need to do on an ice frozen lake in Sweden, you know, a wet rainy night in Stoke is not going to be a problem. But also for EVs, that sense of whether it's the battery efficiency, the battery charging, your cold start, you're putting it under the most exacting conditions.

8:53So it's cold weather testing at the same time. We also do hot weather testing. So we'll do stuff in the desert, which again, obviously the extreme heat, it brings all sorts of other challenges, which we need to make sure we can accommodate. But this car will be the most rigorously tested Jaguar in history. So for us, that sense of this, just real sense of painstaking, let's put it through its paces because it needs to be the best Jaguar ever. So let's take it to the harshest places on the planet. and really test it. So that's why we do it. I want to just add to any past Jaguar owners that the new one has an ice and snow mode.

9:29It does, yeah. Which, by the way, to anybody who owned a Jaguar in the 80s, 90s or 2000s, even you will admit this, on mud and snow, they were absolutely atrocious. Not their finest hour. Not their finest moment. In fact, if there was a quarter of an inch of snow at home, I used to leave my car at home and go and get a taxi. I was so terrified. Absolutely glorious in the wet, glorious in the dry, but ice or mud were a catastrophe. So this is very, very well. Of course, it's effectively a four-wheel track. It is, and as I say, the traction control, it just enables you to have a level of stability, and the grip goes to wherever you need it.

10:07So it'll be transformational in that sense. And the steering was quite tight as well. Is it four-wheel steering? Yes. All-wheel steering. So it's a long car, so the production car's over five metres, but it'll have the turning circle of a Fiat 500. So it's in terms of its maneuverability, which is that really important for Jaguar. You've got to feel comfortable in it. If you feel like I'm driving a big car, then that's not a Jaguar. You need to feel comfortable in it. So things like the all-wheel steer are really important. Well, this surprised me when we went out on the test track earlier and chatting to the engineer about it as well, because I said to him, how close is the real car to the concept, right?

10:42And he's like, no, no, no, we had to deliver the same thing. Because often when you see concept cars And then when you see the real car, they've evolved quite a lot, haven't they, between the concept. But this is very true, isn't it? So what challenges did that give the engineers to deliver on the design vision? Hundreds. I mean, a point you talked about opposing. With an EV, the more batteries you have, the more range you have, which is why most EVs are quite tall. Quite tall. Because you have a big stack. But we've said, actually, no, we want our car to be low riding. Our production car is 1.4 metres tall.

11:15That's really, that's pretty low. But we're also saying that's got to have 700 kilometers, 400 miles of range. So you have to confound logical thinking. So nobody else puts batteries ahead of the bulkhead. So a certain position in the cabin, because actually you want to keep them away from crash impact. Now for us, the choice then is, do we want to compromise on range or do we want to compromise on height? The answer is we don't actually want to do either. So we've found, we've patented it, we've found a completely new way. We've got a battery stack that's ahead of the bulkhead. But actually what we've had to then do is completely re-engineer how, in the event of an impact, how that energy is then managed.

12:00And again, that in itself, there's probably no logical reason why you do that. Apart from just an absolutely kind of diehard passion to say, no, we need to deliver on that concept. Now, that in itself gives us an extra 70 miles of range without any compromise to the height and the design of the vehicle. And for me, that's a great little analogy. That's the Jaguar story that's told over and over again. We've got our own dedicated platform for a relatively small number of vehicles. If you just look at that. And it's 850 volt, not 800. Yeah, that would be like a, you'd think that was an insane thing to do.

12:40But for us, we think that's the best way for us to compete. And the best way for us to win is kind of not doing it the way everybody else does. And, yeah, that's the Jaguar story. Who do you envisage as the target audience apart from me? Well, and John. I was going to say, yeah. John's in on it as well, I think. So, as you'd expect, big capital project. We do clinic, we research, we do that now. So people are open to EVs, first and foremost. There will be a group of people that are not open to EVs, and that group varies in terms of size and magnitude, depending where you are in the world. But then what we found is there are certain unifying mindsets.

13:24So one of the things, they're people that are, you know, they value crashmanship, they're interested in technology, but probably more important than anything else, they want a brand that's really individual. They want to stand out. that they want to be driving the same thing that everybody else is doing on their streets. So that desire for individuality and selecting a brand that actually speaks to them in that way. So that's when we talk about this sort of unifying mindset, that's most important. And to be honest, whether they are super wealthy in their 30s or an existing luxury car buyer in their 50s or 60s, it's that little bit about actually I want to have something that's a bit different and I want to have something that's got a narrative and a story and some real substance behind it, that's who we think will be buying these vehicles.

14:11Well, a good proof point. We had Noel Mack was here from Gymshark earlier. Yep. And he's a petrolhead, and he's got a completely restored, beautiful, pristine defender. And he's ardently, you know, kind of, you know, defender of that kind of thing. He walked in this morning and went, I'm buying that. Just like that. Saw it. I'm buying one. So I think you're seeing it in the flesh as well. it's just because it because it looks very much like a concept car design doesn't it when you see it in the flesh and realize it is as as advertised it's stunning isn't it yeah i think that sense of i think you know we talked earlier on about familiarity and does that help i i think it's more physicality uh actually it was interesting null's impact is well i've seen it on my phone but actually seeing it here it's one hell of a presence it's it's completely different so we have that time and i as you can imagine i've presented this to lots of journalists presented to lots of clients at places like goodwood and pebble and all over the world and the one thing with it we know is actually you know when you see it physically the the scale the presence the craft because actually it can look quite flat particularly in a in in in the in the color finishes but actually then you understand the precision how the intersections work the real detailing that's gone into that craft and the love that's gone into it you need to see it physically so that's that'll definitely be a it's a challenge for us in terms of right okay well how do we how do we get that across and how do we photograph the car so that's our next thing the photography of it has got to be able to capture all of those things i've just talked about and that's that's actually something we're literally uh taking on this week so it still has in an incredibly futuristic form that sort of British brand nod to the country house exterior, doesn't it?

15:54There's that slight, you know, that little bit of Robert Adam Portico to the thing. And I suppose it's in the lower proportions that you achieve that, isn't it? Proportions are everything, Rory. So in terms of the production vehicle, and actually same for the concept car, there are certain things that are important to us. So if you stack two wheels on top of each other, that's greater than the height of the car. So the relationship between overall height and wheel size, really important. Whoa, you're right. Then you've got the size of the front overhangs is tiny. The length of the bonnet is disproportionately long.

16:28It doesn't need to be. And most EVs don't because you don't need to put an engine in there. So we can have a really small cab forward bonnet. But you end up with a vehicle with a very, you know, a lot of EVs with a very sort of homogenous profile. Whereas for us getting that sense of scale. And that is where there's perhaps a nod to, if you think about some of the iconic vehicles in Jaguar's history, whether it's the E-Type or the XJS, etc. They all had really exuberant proportions. Yeah. And, you know, the roof line from the A-pillar all the way to the rear. You know, for us, we never wanted to try and sort of do a resto mod or ape the exact design of things we've done in the past.

17:04But it was more about understanding the essence of, you know, when the E-Type landed, it really shot people. They'd not seen anything like that. I've read some of the early auto cars. Auto cars are, you know, super important for the auto industry. it's one of the most influential and it's been around forever so i went back and read what did they say about xjs when it when it replaced e-type as a spiritual successor and it's like well they love the refinement the power we've just heard that but actually we're we're a bit concerned about how polarizing the design is yes and like now that's car is seen as a as an absolute classic in terms of its design its proportions the beautiful c pair at the back so that's in our DNA and that's I guess also part of our story and we talked about you know when we talked about first time around the sort of fury and have you left your history and heritage behind I think we've worked hard and we are communicating much more you know sort of overtly and I say look this is we talk we call them the origin stories whether it's that sort of breaking with convention whether it's the exuberance whether it's how the car drives whether it's our use of color these are all things you know and i i think brand management is about really peeling the kind of layers back of your brand and really understanding what are those notable high points you think this is the essence of our brand and this is what we're going to celebrate and this is what we're going to take forward into the 21st century yeah rather than which i think has has little integrity and little interest frankly people see through it if you think well we just want to make one that was really successful let's let's make a bit more of that let's make a bit more of that or try and do that with a with a battery makes that we've got no interest in doing that it's interesting your new spirit of jaguar campaign really shows that off doesn't it because when you do see xjs and you see e-type and you see the latest one all together you realize how similar the silhouettes are as you know the long bonnet and i also learned something new today about the is it called the premium gap the gap between the wheel and we're obsessed with premium the premium yeah i know but there's actually you know in terms of how far you've got from the back of the wheel to to the accelerator pedal yeah so the premium gap is is really where it'll be from where the effectively where the driver's foot will be to the to the center uh of the front wheel arch and it's actually what gives the car its presence in our opinion and the proportions of the premium gap on our vehicle is identical uh in terms of the overall length of the car to what we did on e-type so there's those little sort of nods to to the past without us saying well let's yeah And so you've managed to use the premium gap to house some of the batteries.

19:37Absolutely. By changing that. By changing how we manage the crash structure. And again, as I say, without that, we've just lost 70 miles of road. Very funny story from this. By the way, I want to explain. I live in the roof, okay, in the attic of a Robert Adam house. And it was built by George III's doctor. And the story was he didn't want the house to be too large because he was terrified the king would come and stay. but every house then in the 18th century had to have an enormous staircase. So the question he faced was this fantastic architectural problem, which is how do you have a suitably prestigious staircase, which is the premium gap of the 18th century, but in a small house you'd end up with a useless U-shape of rooms around the outside, all of which were too small.

20:23So what Adam did was he banged the staircase into the corner. So you came in through the front door and then you turned to the right. The staircase was in the corner, which occupies about a quarter of the size of the house. And then there's quite a useful L-shape of rooms all about 20 feet square that go around the outside. So that was the 18th century equivalent of your premium gap. Who knew?

20:48Reminds me of your James Watts story as well, doesn't it? Inventing the horsepower. Inventing the horsepower. Well, this is one of the questions which I was saying that the metrics have to change for electric cars. And I think things like the 20 to 80 percent charging time is silly because in the five years I've had electric cars, I don't think I've charged from 20 to 80 percent more than about twice. And, you know, I understand why those metrics develop. But one of the metrics I don't think we're understanding with electric cars is price, because most people will react to that car and say it's very expensive.

21:24but compared to a petrol car that could achieve the same thing it's actually a bargain isn't it okay so you know i went out and bought a car you know now i only bought the 600 not the 900 horsepower lotus elettra but it suddenly occurred to me that in petrol form if i'd wanted that car i probably would have had to pay three times as much if i wanted anything like the equivalent performance, quietness, everything else. And so this is another interesting question, which is one of the things we saw was people trading from an Audi to a Skoda, a petrol Audi to an electric Skoda. And everybody was completely bemused by this.

22:04And I said, well, the only awkward thing is, in some respects, an electric Skoda is probably better than a petrol Audi in all kinds of respects. In other words, when we're making this comparison between internal combustion engine cars and electric cars, it's in a sense, it's not an apples to apples comparison at all, is it? So that car is in some respects, given what you would have had to pay to obtain something like that in petrol form, it's actually a mere bagatelle. I realise your socialist viewers are not going to, if I'm there saying, you know, a£130 ,000 car, it's really not that expensive.

22:41But in some respects, no, it isn't, is it? But I think there's a point here about the purest view of the dynamics, because when you kicked off right at the start of the discussion, the response to the dynamics of the vehicle has been incredible. We're blown away. We were confident that actually reading it has been fantastic. But what I don't think people are still quite getting is it is able to do that because it's an electric vehicle. because you kind of say i love the way it drives but it's an electric vehicle well it is able to do all the things you love about it so there's probably four i mean i could give you lots but i'll give you like three or four so there in terms of the driving dynamics that car has so you know any dynamicist will tell you that they want 50 50 weight distribution well if you've got a rear or front mounted engine that's near on impossible of course yeah so with a with an electric car you can do that with our vehicle the way we've designed it the driver because your cab rearward the actual driver sits right on the center of gravity of the vehicle literally centimeters above it we've even created a foot garage in in row two which enables us to lower the position of the seat of the driver so you are literally on top of that so so the center of gravity is is everything we talked about the power it's got it's got three motors but not only is it does it give you that incredible power and an ability to deliver that power pretty much in any way you choose the ability to put the power where you need it so whether that's traction control or whether it's you know managing the torque and putting it whether it's front rear left right we ought to say torque vectoring it's mandatory to say that in any car program I was trying to avoid it we have to say experience we better mention AI and talk vectoring now we've done it we can put a big tick on that well my engineers will be happy thank you yes it's instantaneous it's done at a thousandth of a second so that sense around probably what you picked up on your drive is that sense of I'm going at high speed but I feel really comfortable because I'm sitting in the car not on the car as the consequence of that cylindrical gravity also, the car shrinks around you.

24:57It denies its size. You've got this incredible power, but it's delivered in a way that you've got utter confidence. Totally short-footed. I mean, freakishly. Those are all enabled because of being an EV. That's really important. And that's going to be a key message for us to really land as we get into this next phase of... And it's funny, isn't it? Because being electric, you think it's going to be very modern, very not Jaguar. And yet the ride feels like Jaguar. the kind of roll in the corners feels like Jaguar, the progression of the, it feels like a V12 almost, doesn't it? You know, in terms of how the power progresses, which is incredible.

25:32So you feel more Jaguar rather than less Jaguar when you're driving it, which is astonishing. I was getting flashbacks to my ownership of, you know, the last XJ I had, particularly in terms of the driving position and the sure-footedness as well. No, I mean, it's very strange because the idea, the purists who I, you know, I to some extent I understand it by the way I mean there are two things there's a love of motoring and there's a love of cars and they're slightly in conflict aren't they you know in other words you know I understand I to be honest I in order to get to work from Seven Oaks to London I support the electric train but I entirely respect those people who worship steam and locomotives because they are inherently very lovely and there is something about the internal combustion engine in all manner of ways of noise and smell which is inherently lovely but the idea that sir william lyons for example or henry ford if they were alive today would not be pursuing electric vehicles seems to me inherently ridiculous you know that actually henry ford did pursue an electric vehicle with edison the other thing i think is that the the capacity as you said all those things are made possible because of electrification it's not electric it's not in other words a compromise for environmental purposes it is genuinely um yeah and by the way the scope i think the other point i make obviously not so much relevant to jaguar land rover is the scope for widespread innovation in electric powered vehicles including things like the mic which i've test driven which i rather love you know now you know it's not a great motorway vehicle but you know if you lived in chelsea and your your entire sort of scope of operations was going to Dalesford organic and and Hullfoods okay it would be really rather an admirable thing now you can't do that well you can they did obviously there was the bubble car but you can do it elegantly in an electric vehicle in a way you never could with a miniaturized petrol engine and you know things like the Heathrow pod which I'm a huge devotee of you know and that's a form of transport that deserves to be explored much more because it's kind of halfway between a taxi and a bus you know It fills that kind of missing space.

27:46All of that is open to be explored with electric in a way that we kind of hit a dead end, I think. Well, so much of this is challenging people's existing perception. I mean, I know you got retweeted by Elon, didn't you, the other day, which is hilarious. But what's the point you're making about if you imagine you were launching petrol today? Yeah, if all cars were electric, which was the default. conceivably that i mean if you believe some people they argue that the early electric cars were more a marketing failure than they were a practical failure and the idea was they became seen as very feminine because you didn't have to crank start them because they were quiet they didn't spatter oil or over the place they were disproportionately popular with female car buyers at a time when female car buyers were probably three percent of the car buying market and there is a school of thought that says they actually got depositioned because of the imagery, the user imagery, not because of the inherent technology.

28:45But my point was, if you imagine a parallel universe where all cars were electric and you went along and recommended the internal combustion engine as a source of motive power, you know, the whole thing would seem ridiculous. You fill a tank with an inflammable liquid, you set fire to it, you need a gearbox, you need an oil filter, you need an air filter you need a radiator uh you need 117 moving parts rather than seven and you'd go well what are the advantages exactly you know um well is it quieter no is it you know is it better performance no is it cleaner no um it's really quick to refuel can you refuel it at home no no you can't refuel it at home that'd be insanely dangerous you can't have people with 200 gallons of of gasoline under their house so it's one of those reframings which you know i mean it'd be as absurd as suggesting in a sense you know um you know no one's suggesting petrol-powered drones really are they you know for the most part fundamentally everything has moved towards electrification the only reason the car didn't was the whole energy density question which is increasingly being solved year by year, you know, essentially.

30:01Yeah. I mean, just to pick up a couple of points there, that if you come out, once you get used to driving an electric car, the novelty of going back to a petrol station. Yeah. Seems crazy, doesn't it? It's like, yeah, you've got to go there, you've got to queue up, you've got to spend 10 minutes filling, then you've got to queue up and pay. My wife says this. You can get against us, maybe. I look at those people. I look at those people filling up, and it looks weird to me, she says. Yeah. Because, and even, I guess, with first generation range of, I don't know, 180 to 240, whatever, 94 % of people do all their charging at home.

30:34But next generation range, so this car's, let's say, 400 plus miles, you're only going to be charging at home pretty much. So this idea of range anxiety and inconvenience, I think, is a real fallacy. But you need to experience it to go through that process. And Roy, as you often say, we're always focusing on range. We should focus on anxiety. Reducing anxiety. I have a suggestion for the user interface, which is when you're above 70%, you really don't need to say 73%. I don't need to know that I've lost 1 % of my battery capacity when I go to the shops. Actually, 70%, you know, the petrol gauge only gave you a vague intimation.

31:12The app should probably tell you the individual percentage because you're actually charging and you need to know. But actually, that need when I'm driving around, you know, 60 % plus, 70 % plus will be fine. I don't need that level of granularity. And there are lots of other things where we could, you know, if you'd had good UX designers, the design of public charging stations originally in the early days was an absolute abomination. Yeah, everything's location. The location of them, yeah, it was absolutely hopeless. Effectively, I think range anxiety is hugely relevant to the buyer, to the user.

31:46It more or less disappears. So my wife's got one of the electric Mini Coopers, which only has a range of about 100 miles. because it's one of the relatively early ones. And even owning that in the entire time, it's five years of electric car ownership, we had range anxiety once and it suddenly occurred to us, well, we used to get petrol anxiety once every five years. It's not actually that new. No. And so it's one of those very strange things, which I think is massively important at the point of purchase, but almost irrelevant at the point of use. All right, all right. Sorry to interrupt this conversation.

32:21I promise you it's for a good cause. So I've just put a rather large deposit down on a very big venue in central London called the Outernet that can hold 400 people. It's an amazing venue. Now, we're going to be doing the very first uncensored CMO, The Calling. Now, what is The Calling? The Calling is your opportunity to join us live and be inspired by the world's best founders, the most inspirational CMOs and the best thought leaders. this is one day that will completely transform your career i promise it will be well worth it i'm so excited to be doing this and if you want to find out more details please go to the show notes and check it out and i really look forward to seeing you there it's on the 21st of april do not miss it now back to the show well i'd love to know your take on rodan on ferrari and lamborghini oh yeah it's fascinating how they've gone down different avenues haven't they because Ferrari's gone very retro and Lamborghini's gone hybrid.

33:23They have. And I mean, interestingly, this week, Bentley had talked about they're actually not going to go hybrid. Their first EV is going to be EV only. So it's a real mixed bag. It really is in terms of in terms of how people respond. And Rolls-Royce is slowing down on electrification, they claim. Is that right? I understand that. Yeah. Whereas I think for us, it's what we've been talking about all this whole conversation, really. We started off saying we want to make the best Jaguar possible. We maintain that all of those things that a Jaguar should have, all the things we've talked about, that grace, pace, space, power and reserve, all that sort of stuff, actually it's just much better for us to deliver that, as well as the design flexibility that it gives you in terms of package and how you can develop the proportions, et cetera.

34:15for us I mean other people will do what they will do and I think it's important that we continue to look left and right but more importantly I think we've got to be really clear on what we've set out to do and and you know we you know this is where we want to play and this is how we think we're going to win and absolutely absolutely stick to that and again go back to your very first question your very first statement is people have been blown away by the way the car drives you know This doesn't look like any other EV on the road, and certainly for a long period of time, I suspect, won't. And currently, I don't think it drives like many other EVIs.