The power of kindness with Kory Marchisotto [Uncensored Renegades]

0:00Kory Marchisotto:Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Uncensored Renegades. This is the 20-minute podcast where Kory Marchisotto and myself tackle one big question every week. I hope you enjoy this. Now, if you are enjoying it, I've got one request to make. We're putting this out on the current Uncensored feed for a limited time only. So if you're enjoying it, go over to Uncensored Renegades, hit subscribe and never miss an episode. Anyway, without further ado, let's get into it. K-Boss What's up? We're back Hi We're back at it I feel like we need a I think we need one of those like tour t-shirts that they have you know the bands when you go and see them London, Milan, Paris, New York Here we are in New York Is that where we are right now?

0:42I think so

0:43Kory Marchisotto:I've stopped counting now I don't know where I am or what time zone it is But something struck me the other day actually thinking about Elf because I do quite a lot now because you know you've introduced me to this whole new world Your mission about being bold disruptors with kind hearts It struck me because I don't think I've seen a brand declare themselves as kind. Was that a conscious thing that you decided to do? It was a very conscious thing. When I started the company almost seven years ago now, there wasn't a codified ethos. There was a set of principles, practices, beliefs. It wasn't codified.

1:20And what I wanted to do was take all the magic I was seeing around me and work together with a team that could put that into words that could become a shared language that could be repeatable, that could be a magnetic attraction for others, whether it's shoppers or employees or partners that we were going to force multiply with. And the magic that I was finding right at the top was really more about a persona. If I had to describe the company in a persona, what would that persona be? And what we came down to is Elf is a bold disruptor with a kind heart. The bold disruptor part is actually not unique.

2:04There are other companies that are bold disruptors. What we were finding, though, is that they were fearless, which is a key part of being a bold disruptor, but they were also heartless. and we, on the other hand, were heartful. So putting the two together was critical because the way in which we are doing the bold disruption is with kindness. And it was a really interesting conversation because when you actually boil that down and you say, okay, make a list of companies or people that are bold disruptors, you're gonna have a short list. Then you say, okay, we'll make a list of companies or people that are kind hearts, the list gets a little bit longer.

2:48But then you say, show me the intersection between those things, bold disruptors with kind hearts. And that's where you find the unicorns.

3:00Kory Marchisotto:Because it's a very, very unusual combination. I mean, when you think about disruption, you tend to think about kind of breaking things, moving at speed, being aggressive, you know undermining the competition it's quite sort of aggressive and challenging cutthroat difficult you know environment to be in kind isn't a word that I would kind of drop into that scenario so I just wonder how do you define kind in that in that context of because kindness in you know we're not talking about kind of being slow or like making everyone feel good you know but we actually because you know you've had 25 26 quarters now 26 26 quarters congratulations You were ringing the bell, weren't you, down at Stock Exchange just last week, weren't you, celebrating your success?

3:45Kory Marchisotto:So it doesn't mean compromising and being nice to everyone, does it? So I love that you just brought up the word nice because I think this is actually a really important point of distinction. There is a very big difference between being nice and being kind. So when you think about being nice, very oftentimes that means leaving things out. People think that being nice is not telling somebody they have a stain on their shirt or broccoli in their teeth or, you know, a smear on, you know, you're being nice. You don't want to say anything. The kind thing to do is to tell somebody you have broccoli in your teeth.

4:19And even when you think this, you bring this into the business world, being nice is actually having somebody who's not in the right role stay in that role, which is not good for them or good for the company. being kind is letting them go. So this is a really important distinction. Kindness can't just be about a single gesture. It has to be a habit. It has to be a practice, a principle, something that people are engaging with on a regular basis. And when you think about what ELF does, everything that we're doing is purpose-driven. And it comes from a place of trying to make the world a better place for every eye, lip and face.

5:02And that's where the kindness part is. What are the games that we need to change to make them more fair and equitable, whether it's the boardroom or the playing fields or access to equity? That's kindness. Kindness is saying there is a game here that many people are being excluded from. What if we change the game to make it inclusive, accessible and positive for everyone.

5:27Kory Marchisotto:I love the way you frame that as competitive advantage because you understand and care about your customer more deeply than your competitors do and therefore unearths lots of insight. A book I'm obsessed with at the moment, I don't know if you've read it, Unreasonable Hospitality, Will Godara. He and his partner created the world's number one Michelin starred restaurant. And what was fascinating about their story is, you know, they were trained chefs and, And, you know, they kind of, you know, got an amazing training. And I think they got to number 50. And Will, as he tells the story, went along to the celebration, the top 50 restaurants in the world.

6:01Kory Marchisotto:And what he realized is he looked around and everyone was doing the same thing in terms of food. And he worked out he could not beat them based on the food. So he said, I'm going to beat them based on the service. And what he decided to do was double down on understanding what every individual customer was there for. so for example and loads of amazing stories in the book but like there's a there's a couple on that wedding anniversary and they've they've they've come to a restaurant and they suddenly remember they left the champagne in the freezer they're going to chill it down so so he's like hand me your keys and he sends someone around to take it out the freezer but it didn't stop there that's the obvious thing you know what he did is he brought a hamper round for the you know round to leave in their house to wish them a very happy anniversaries when they woke up the next day They had a breakfast already prepared for them.

6:49Kory Marchisotto:And the whole book is about going above and beyond really understanding and caring for your customer. And, you know, they broke a lot of the rules of restaurant, you know, restaurateur, whatever it's called, you know, in terms of the way they dress and the way they serve and all the kind of pomp and circumstance and really, really cared about the individual. I thought it's really because, you know, in that context, kindness actually is a kind of, you know, way of delivering better customer service and understanding your customer. Yeah, for sure. And it takes courage to care, as my friend Billie Jean King says so eloquently, because you're setting yourself up when you actually care.

7:24You could be setting yourself up for letdown. So it really takes a lot of courage to put your heart into the thing that you're doing, right? Because now you're making it emotional. You're making it a personal connection with people and their stories and their experiences and their moments. So there is a bravery required in putting yourself out there, which by definition becomes an act of vulnerability. That gentleman who went to that person's house had to be thinking about, well, what are they going to love? And he has to change the way he sees the world right now to put himself in the shoes of empathetically with what it is that would make these two individuals very happy in this moment.

8:02And you brought up competition before, which I think is really interesting because the widely held belief is that we have to be at war with our competitors. And actually, our kind heart takes us in the opposite direction. We actually force multiply with people in our orbit. And I don't see why more people can't do that. So, for example, there is a brand called Beekman 1802 that is actually selling kindness. And when you ask the founders about the business that they're in, they'll tell you, we're not selling products. We're selling kindness. And everything in their brand starts from the point of kindness.

8:43So much so that they actually created a kindness curriculum.

8:47Kory Marchisotto:Wow. So as a company that is a bold disruptor with a kind heart, I wanted to do my leadership offsite. So I called them up. I called Josh and Brent. Those are the founders of Beekman 1802. And I said, I know you have a kindness curriculum. Kindness is a huge part of what we're doing, of who we are. I'd love to bring my team to your kindness curriculum. So here we are at the house of a quote unquote competitor learning from them how to exercise kindness, how to increase our kindness gestures. And what I found really fascinating is people think kindness is this soft skill. It's this idea of just using these heartful gestures.

9:31There's actually a science to kindness. And I'm actually going to look at my notes because I could never say this without what came from Dr. Brent. And Dr. Brent said that more exposure to kindness creates epigenetic differences and inherent changes to our DNA. So in fact, kindness changes you and it changes you in meaningful ways. And the kindness has to start with you. So if you think about if I am kind to myself in the morning before I leave the house, if I pour kindness into myself, if I pour kindness into my space, then when I get to the office or whatever environment that I'm in for the day, then I'm going to be able to also pour kindness into others.

10:17So that ripple effect then transpires. So if I'm kind to you, then now you're going to be kind to others and you can see how that ripples.

10:26Kory Marchisotto:The thought you just put in my head, actually, as you said that, was when you give things away like that and you're kind to others, you do feel better yourself, don't you? There's something about that, you know, that actually it does change you. That brings a certain satisfaction, happiness and de-stress and so on with it. So you probably live a better life yourself, even though you're kind of giving, you know, focusing on giving things away. There's probably some truth to that, isn't there? Yeah. And the other thing that they taught us, which I thought was fascinating, is that there's one thing that is standing between people and acts of kindness.

11:03What do you think that one thing is?

11:05Kory Marchisotto:Being British, I would say. I hadn't noticed that you were British. I hadn't noticed that you were British. Exactly. No one listening to your clock that day. I would say embarrassment or something like that because like I tell you a lot of times I've thought about doing something kind for someone else and I've not done it because I don't know how they're going to react. And I think, oh, this could be awkward. I was probably being very British. I'm sure like, you know, in America, they're much more likely to be kind. But I don't know. I just think it's like that uncertainty of what response will I get.

11:35Fear of embarrassment.

11:37Kory Marchisotto:Makes sense. So we refrain from being kind to others because we're afraid of being embarrassed. What if the person doesn't respond well to that act of kindness? Or again, it's an act of vulnerability. So it means now we're open to judgment and fear of judgment and fear of embarrassment. So you have to put that aside to be able to act with a kind heart and just think to yourself, what is going to be the kind gesture to make in this moment that's going to have a meaningful impact on the other person? I was interviewing John Amici on the podcast last week. he's got a new book out called It's Not Magic, The Ordinary Skills of Extraordinary Leaders.

12:18Kory Marchisotto:Beautifully written, absolutely beautifully written. One of the chapters is on vulnerability. And it took me a while to learn this lesson, but actually vulnerability is a skill of a leader. Being able to say, I don't know, but I know you probably do. Being able to give credit away and go, you know, brilliant job that you just did there. Or the ability to pass on and share knowledge, not keep it and protect it, you know, that kind of vulnerability. And to say, if you're feeling scared in a moment or you don't know the answers, that kind of thing. That's actually strength. But it's portrayed, you know, we've been trained to kind of see that as weakness.

12:50Kory Marchisotto:But actually vulnerability, I think, is a huge leadership skill. For sure. And I think it's something that people don't exercise enough for the same reason. Again, if I put myself out there on the line, do I feel like I'm naked in the snow and I'm showing everybody something that they don't normally see? It is very hard for us to be able to say, I was wrong. I need advice. I don't know. And there is a training behind that that we grow up with and how we first get into the workplace and all of the things that are programmed into us. And I think a lot of what we have to learn is how to deprogram.

13:33In order for you to pick up a new habit, you can't just put it on top of something else that is already a fundamentally held belief, you actually have to deprogram the other thing first and then reprogram in another direction. And when you think about the simple things, even just from like boys and girls growing up, like boys don't cry, you can't show your feelings, you have to show up strong. And these are the kinds of myths, if you will, or belief systems that you have to stand back and say, how do I meet the moment? What does this person need from me right now? And then act accordingly like your restaurant example.

14:15These people need this thing right now, and I'm going to take it even a step further to make this something very memorable that was customized for them and their moment.

14:25Kory Marchisotto:Well, just like you're saying earlier about what's the reason why you wouldn't be kind in fear of embarrassment, similar with vulnerability, actually, not knowing what the reaction is going to be. It's very uncomfortable, isn't it, when you're vulnerable with people that work for you. I remember being in that situation before and finding it really, really uncomfortable. But the reaction was incredible. Honestly, it just completely changed the relationship out with the team at the time. If you don't put personal stuff out there, it's hard for people then to relate with personal stuff back. So I often find that when you're willing to say, hey, this is what's going on with me right now.

15:01So I'll give you a perfect example. My mom was diagnosed with cancer and we're going through chemo treatments. And it's important for people around me to know that. And as soon as you open that door and you say, hey, this is what's going on with me right now. I'm going to need to take a couple of trips to Miami. I'm dealing with this situation. All of a sudden, you see that everybody wants to talk and have that shared moment of what's going on with them. And the more that you understand what is going on behind the person right now, the better you can work together as a team and the better you can support each other.

15:38So talking about kindness, and I'll bring this full circle, I had shared that with my team. And it turns out that one of the folks that work for me, her name is Milani, her daughter, her 10-year-old daughter actually crochets coverings for cancer patients who are losing their hair. And she went home and she told her daughter that my mom was going through cancer treatments and she had lost her hair. And her 10-year-old daughter crocheted my mother hats to wear while she was going through this process of losing her hair. Talk about kindness. That is an act of kindness. So I went to Florida. I brought my mom the hats.

16:19She opened it, read the card, you know, put them on and I videoed it to share with Andrea, who's Melani's daughter. And then my mom wrote her a beautiful thank you note telling her how it felt. So an act of kindness followed another act of kindness. And Andrea felt so special that she had gotten this handwritten note from the boss's mother. You know, so think about that ripple effect. And that just came from me sharing a real life moment that was happening for me.

16:49Kory Marchisotto:We're going back to the, fear of embarrassment while stopping kindness. In that situation, your vulnerability took away the fear of embarrassment because you've been vulnerable first. It gives people permission, doesn't it, to then step in and be kind in response to that, which creates the virtual circle. The other thought I had as thinking about the role of kindness is actually how powerful it can be through your career, but also as you do business development. I mean, I found, I mean, even just like doing this podcast as a small example, the more you give away and help other people, whether they're kind of looking for a job or they need some advice or, you know, they want to ask your technical expertise on something.

17:26Kory Marchisotto:Generally speaking, the more you give away, the more that comes back in ways you never imagined, whether it's a recommendation to kind of join a, you know, join a group or speak on a stage or whatever it is. You know what I mean? It's incredibly powerful that you kind of give to the world and then the kind of world gives back many times over. And I think we forget that, that, you know, it can also be sensible business to be kind, you know. And that's the stuff people remember. So even when you haven't seen somebody in a long time or a moment comes up where things are going to pay them back as you're talking about, usually where they go to is a moment of kindness.

18:02They never forgot that moment when something happened to them and you exercise this gesture of care that stood out in their life. And those are the things that people remember, that hold on to and that shine throughout their journeys.

18:19Kory Marchisotto:So true. So, yeah, so true. I mean, talking about your mom, I remember my mom died sadly suddenly when I was about 27. And I remember having to take three weeks off work. and the weird thing was when I came back to work they didn't I think they'd not mentioned why I was off so everyone thought I was on holiday so when I got back everyone was saying do you have a good holiday and I was so cut up about it and emotional I found it hard to say but the I can tell you precisely and there were only three people in the company that ever said anything to me but I remember those people I remember what they said I remember their bravery saying it you know it meant so much you know what I mean and they weren't necessarily three people close to me either They weren't like on my team or anything.

19:01Kory Marchisotto:They're just people that just were brave enough to go, we heard what happened. And, you know, we're there for you sort of thing. You say, you're right. You never forget. Yeah. And when you think about the gestures of care or the moments of kindness that have happened throughout your career, they don't have to be these big monumental things. Somebody did something wonderful and you know this weekend is their anniversary. You can say to them, hey, go expense a meal on me this weekend. sending somebody flowers when you know they're having a tough week and it's full of color and you say, you know, sending this to brighten up your week.

19:35Or there are so many little things that can be done that show how much you care. And I think a lot of it just comes down to the fact that you see them, that you recognize that this is something that they may need from you right now. And that can come in many different sizes, shapes and forms. Sometimes it's an affirmation that they can repeat in the morning that is that helped you through a certain moment in your life. It's the recognition that you care about them, that you see them beyond the fact that they are at this job to do this task and deliver this result, but that they're actually a human and that you're having a human to human connection.

20:20Kory Marchisotto:And I suppose the other point to make is the The loyalty that also breeds to you as a boss is incredible or to the team. It doesn't have to be like boss to employee. It could be across the team. But the loyalty that creates some simple gesture can then be paid back enormously in terms of someone's loyalty to the cause and the business as well. So it kind of makes good business sense as well as human sense, isn't it? Yeah, it's funny that you should say that because Melani, who I was talking about, whose daughter crocheted my mom the hat, She's on her third tour with me across three different companies, and her daughter has watched the journey.

20:56So, you know, I've been her boss for a long time, right? So this is important, and it reverberates just outside of what happens in the office. And she overhears, because of COVID and how much we were at home, she overhears our conversations, our one-on-ones, the stuff her mom does for a living. and we do a lot of cruelty-free markings and bring forward the double certified cruelty-free we have on our visual merchandising and her mom is our head of visual merchandising. So she constantly heard that Elf is cruelty-free and at school they asked her to do a project to focus on something she cared about and she actually chose to study cruelty-free, why that matters, why that's important.