Uncensored Renegades Launch Live from New York City with Kory Marchisotto

0:00Can I start actually by saying an enormous thank you to everyone that's come. This is slightly insane, really, because I think we put a post out. I say we put a post, Corey. I put a post out last week, didn't I? Corey's like, what have you done? What's going on? And less than a week, you've all arrived. So give yourselves a round of applause, actually. Thank you. And I would add to that, some of you actually came from CES, which is kind of nuts. So raise your hand if you got off a plane from CES. Okay, mad props from Vegas. That is a big deal. That is some serious commitment to your friends up here.

0:37So thank you. And just major gratitude for you guys, not just for being here, but we have no idea what we're doing. We have no idea what we're up to. And you all came out in major support. And your belief in us tells us that there's a there there. So thank you. We really appreciate it. Well, look, this was meant to be a big teaser, right? But I suspect you know who the guest is. And you might even know the names. My plan was to kind of do a big reveal. But let me get on to the podcast artwork here. Yes, a bit of background, really. I launched Uncensored CMO about six years ago. And it's always been my dream that Uncensored would be more than just talking about marketing.

1:15Because at the end of the day, to be successful, we have to be great leaders as well. And ever since I met Corey 18 months ago now, I think, in Cannes, she literally ticked every single box for me in terms of like a role model, not just a role model marketer, right? because functionally she is incredible and I'm such a passionate believer in challenger brands and disruption and doing things differently but what I love even more about Corey is her leadership ability to speak the truth you know to lead others and to really set the kind of standard for what leadership looks like so I'm really excited by this because if I could do a podcast with somebody else it would be Corey and so I was very pleased that when I pitched the idea she said yes so so How do we end up with renegades?

2:01Maybe we should explain the background to why renegades. Well, should we start with the fact that you already went rogue and did a post without telling me? So this relationship has kicked off with me opening LinkedIn and seeing him do a post about the one, can we go back one, the one with the question mark. And I'm like, oh, so we're doing this. So that's a renegade spirit from the onset of not having any rules. and I have an allergy for rules and the status quo. So it's perfectly on brand. But I thought we could spend a minute chatting. I've got some fun stats here about how that post did because it was pretty fun that you went rogue and then there was some good data behind that.

2:46So my personal favorite one, because I was reading it, I'm like, your audience is very global. You live in the UK. You've had how many CMOs on your podcast? Well, 230 guests in total, probably 100 CMOs. So I'm like, I don't know, maybe there's 1 % of people who will guess that it's Corey Marchisoto. 44 % of people guess that it was me. Isn't that bananas? I think that's super bonkers. And, you know, some of what came up from a sentiment perspective was overwhelmingly positive. We're like, that's a good signal. We like signals. High trust and anticipation. People love the idea that we were going to do a shorter length so that they could listen to it on their commute.

3:31I'm getting head nods. So people are super appreciating that we say 20 minutes ish. You'll see why when it launches, they're never 20. It's like we got from 27 to 26 to 25. I get excited at 25. I'm like, yeah, close enough. People also love a female voice of authority. Can we give it up for that? Not enough women out there in this space. So that's really good. And the other thing that came back in the data poll was the leather jackets. There is a lot of commentary about the leather jacket. Let's get the leather jacket back on. There we go. And then you had some other really good stats about who was engaging with the post that I thought was interesting.

4:15Yeah, this was really fascinating because obviously on LinkedIn you get to see who's responded to the post. Number one, we're founders. Number two, co-founders. So there's something about running a business and, you know, owning a business and the challenges that faces that this really taps into. I mean, and every good marketer as well should think like a business owner as well. Well, I think the other thing is uncensored, challenger brand, renegade. It's all thematically tied to entrepreneurship, which is where you're going to get a lot of founders. I mean, most of the entrepreneurial energy and the challenger comes from that scrappy startup, you know, basically make it or die kind of mentality, which is what allows challenger brands to say challenger brands.

5:01So I thought that was was pretty cool. And it was the number four engaged post in the last 30 days. And I'm like, we got to get this into the top three at least. Right. 100 percent. James, the audio is quite bad, apparently. The audio, it's a bit fishbowly. Everyone could huddle in a bit. You come to us. Yeah, get closer. Yeah. Or we scratch the recording and just do... The other idea is it's not going to be a podcast and we just make it about the audience. Oh, I just do it as a live film. I'm happy with that. Let the happy one seem to enjoy me. This is amazing. This is pretty cool, right? I loved it.

5:43Uh-oh. this is so good we have a photographer somewhere don't we yeah all right let's talk about topics and what we're going to talk about you said something to me when we first started this which really hit a nerve which is why don't we talk about the things that people are too afraid to talk about it's got to be relatable real talk real people so what i loved about john's podcast is you feel like it's a real conversation that adds real value to your everyday life. So when you listen to the podcast, you're like, I just got a little bit smarter and I'm gonna put that new intelligence into my work today.

6:23And you can actually see it and feel it in action. So we wanted it to be snackable, relatable, repeatable and valuable to the listener. And one of the things that both of us hear all the time and I'm sure anyone who's a CMO in the room or out there in the audience is marketers sound like corporate talking heads. And feedback that I get very often is that I actually speak like a human. And I find that to be really interesting. I'm like, when did humans stop sounding like humans? So we want to make sure that we always keep this rooted in humanity. We're here to serve the audience and we're here to tell folks about the stuff we wish people told us along our journey that would have helped us get further faster totally i mean we've already recorded 14 episodes haven't we which is a bit insane and and the brief was quite fun actually because when i was trying to convince cori to do this it's like one one thing i insisted on it must be live because the energy is so much greater and it must go out weekly because having done a podcast for six years people get into this routine and if it's not weekly you just get you just go up and down you never kind of grow sort of thing now Coy's a fairly busy person let's just say you know she has a fairly big job and she has to be in lots of places so we basically worked out how many hours are we going to be in the same place at the same time in the course of a year divide that by 52 and you get to 15 minutes so we decided well we ended up going 20 didn't we in the end sort of But that was the idea.

8:01So what we would love to happen, and this is where I think when we kind of finish this chat, I'd love to throw it out to you is we'd love this to be a community thing where everyone says, this is the question I'm too afraid to ask. I need help with this. So we were talking about, for example, what do I do when I've got a shitty boss? Or how do I respond when I get fired? You know, what happens when I fail and fail big? You know, these are the kind of things I'd love us to have a conversation about. or what happens when somebody in a meeting blows smoke in your face we're gonna make a whole episode out of that that actually happened to me i'm just gonna put that out there so you know and your fight or flight sets in and you don't know how to respond in the moment so this is really valuable information for our audience but one of the things maybe would be great is to take them on the journey of how did we get here because it started with you it did yeah well it's funny when When I'm looking for guests on the show, by the way, there are a few guests here, actually.

8:57So in this corner over here, we've got some former guests that do go there afterwards. But I have a very simple brief for Kerry, who does all the planning, guest planning for me, which is find me the most interesting person you can. Because when you're creating a podcast, you want to have engaging stories. You want to have real life experience. So it's not just about learning how to do it, but it's more about how you communicate that to the audience. And so I said to Kerry, right, get me the most kick-ass CMOs in America. Because obviously, you know, this is where the action happens. And so basically, I've been sort of trying to get Corey on the show for some time.

9:34And Cannes was the moment when it happened, right? Because you were doing something with Mike Cesario, weren't you? Yeah, I think we had just dropped our collab. That's right. Then we had the conversation on the podcast. And it was just that chemistry thing where I thought, Corey exemplifies everything that I would want to be as a CMO. As I say, I always joke because I got fired twice in the same year, about seven years ago. The reason I do this is because I couldn't become a... Well, actually, one of the topics we cover is what to do when you get fired, which is basically 18 minutes of me talking, right?

10:06There are other episodes, by the way, that are mostly Corey. But anyway, that's fun. I love that you're open about it. Like, how many people in this room have been fired? Right? Like it's not something that people feel comfortable talking about. It's part of the journey. And we want to be able to lift people up, be like, all right, you got fired. Here's five people who got fired. Go talk to them versus go hiding in a corner and thinking that you have to put your head down in shame. And this is where the humanity part comes in. But Carrie stalked me. She did. Like a psycho stalker to try to get me on the show.

10:41And eventually I listened to some episodes. I chatted with some folks that you had had on and they're like, oh, my God, absolutely get on there. Go do it. So I did the episode and I believe it was your second highest rated episode after Scott Galloway. It was. Yes.

11:02So as you'll hear us talk about often, we're following the signals, right? This was data and insights that led us here, which is a lot of what we talk about on the podcast is the formula for success, which starts with listening. And that's where that came from. So then John propositioned me for building this out. And of course, my number one thing was time. How are we going to get this done? And when you have yes energy and you believe in the thing, you figure it out. And I think that's kind of where we are right now is we're figuring it out. Well, we've already done, let me just add this up. We've done Cannes, Paris, London, New York.

11:47We're doing pretty well actually on the kind of world tour, aren't we? So why Renegades? Let's talk about the name because that's been a journey. That has been a journey. And there's quite a few people in this room right now who've been part of this journey, inputting, commenting, contributing both to the artwork as well as to the names. It's always the name, isn't it? Like whenever you're launching your product, the name takes forever. We've been through a few names. We've been through a few names. But you came up with Renegades, didn't you? And this is quite recently, actually. So what was it about Renegades that caught your imagination?

12:17I love your focus with Uncensored on challenger brands and the lessons that can be learned from challenger brands. And challenger brands are most often successful because they're run by Renegades. and one of the things that I think about on what needs to be true for somebody to be in a state of peak performance you have to be totally aligned with the frequency of the thing that you're into and when I think about Elf and why this perfectly aligned with who I am is because it is a company built on a renegade spirit from our initial founders 21 years ago to our current CEO who was who is really more a founder, you know, leans more toward founder, which is which is why we have such a founder entrepreneurial energy and spirit.

13:06And if you're going to try to help people along the journey of being OK to break with the status quo, that name is the transformative name. Like you're going to listen to this podcast if you want to do things differently, if you're willing to take the path of most resistance. And I think the name perfectly exemplifies what you're about, what I'm about, and what we have legitimacy and credibility to stand behind. Totally. And by the way, 16 other names were already taken. Not that I don't love this one. I actually do. And it, you know, there's a lot of difficulties that you have. And this is true for trademarking products.

13:49All of us who work in marketing know that the legal side of trying to get something is super complicated. Now, we should probably get to know each other a little bit, shouldn't we? Because I know something you do with your team is you've got some very interesting ways of kind of getting under the skin of the people in your team. So one of the things that I learned along the interview process, it started there and then it translates further, is people have a really hard time talking about themselves. And if you can somehow give them a way to talk about themselves without talking about themselves, you can get to know them further, deeper and faster than ever before.

14:27So I started on my interview journey by asking people to describe themselves as a drink. now people will automatically go to when I go to a bar I order a spicy margarita and that's not the idea it's not a drink that you like or a drink that you you have daily it's what does it have to say about who you are I have interviews where people are talking to me about their mother and their journey and their pathway and dark secrets I'm like whoa okay as soon as you give somebody a way of describing themselves through another vehicle, it changes the conversation. But then people got on to me. So now everybody knows to anticipate she's going to ask you what drink you are.

15:13So I have a new one that I'm going to ask you, which is to describe yourself as a spice. So you're in this spice cabinet and you've got to pick up the spice that describes John Evans and tell us what that spice has to say about you. now a random because you warned me you're going to ask me about a spice right and and i i did something i went on uh chat gpt actually i came up with first of all i came up with the answer i thought this is no word of blood i went on chat gpt and i said which spice would i be and it came up with an exact match for the spice i came up with which which was paprika i don't know why but there's something about there's something about the color of it and the intensity of flavor and the versatility of it which i absolutely love that makes any dish just taste better and and vibrant and just turn something that can be you could put it on chips for example right it could it could turn something quite boring into something quite sensational um now the rationale in chat gpt was a little bit boring actually i have to be honest it said that john likes to mix real world experience with theory and i was like what's that going to do with paprika i don't know how do you get from that to paprika but anyway but i love the fact that you got the spice right i thought that's really good what about you though so i'm an overachiever i asked three different ais what they would use to describe me only one of them landed on the one that i chose for myself if i had to pick one so perplexity which is actually my ai of choice of the moment chose saffron yeah right and i hope you're all thinking about what spice you are and it said that saffron is rare luminous and instantly recognizable and what it says about cory is she doesn't whisper she colors everything she touches i was like that's that's good deep right That's good.

17:12Perplexity knows me, so it's a little poetic. And it says that saffron infuses whatever it enters with vibrancy and a renegade spirit that has the ability to shift and in a business sense, turn a company into a culture. Then I asked ChatGPT. chat gpt said turmeric which by the way i didn't know how to spell until after we made a mistake on a key soul care golden cleanser that has turmeric in it and we put a lot of bottles to mark it without the first r we won't ever make that mistake again so yes turmeric with two r's and this one says turmeric because purposeful power um cory is bold without being loud transformative at her core warmth with an edge recognized for benefits not just taste and always leaves a mark and the last one was gemini and gemini chose crushed red pepper so i think we see a common a common thread here i'm obviously a little spicy and this one because i bring a renegade heat i didn't say the word renegade interesting that gemini chose that a lightning bolt impact, a kind heart with a kick, and a purpose-driven depth.

18:35So I thought actually AI did a pretty good job. So it's a great interview question, and it really helps people understand how to get behind the wall of the facade that we want to put up. Plus, everybody's overprepared, so you have to be ready to throw a question out that's going to help you get past the small talk. all right i'm going to ask you another question what makes you mental you know when you asked me this earlier i literally was went mental didn't i like and i don't know what this is this is going to be like totally first world problems i'm going to sound probably like a right old arse now when i say this but um i planned my trip over here so i've got um i i fly between ba or virgin i've got the loyalty card in both and i managed to get to gold status on Virgin which gets you into the by the way anyone who flies through terminal three the lounge Virgin lounge there is like nothing else it's amazing so I planned my trip here based on the fact that I've got a gold card I can get into the lounge it's all going to be lovely and that sort of thing anyway I didn't even think about checking and I got there got through and looked my app and it's like oh I've been downgraded to silver damn and then I realized that it hadn't updated for like my past eight flights it was missing like half my travel from a year and that's why i've been downgraded but i was just like i mean producer james will back me up on this because uh he was flying ba and we were messaging each other but it just like really irritated me now it's gonna sound like very deeperish i'm sure but um but that's just symbolic for me bad customer experience or bad customer service that doesn't live up to the reason you love the brand it's just earth shattering it just you know i i got really i'm never gonna fly virgin again i can't believe you know by the time i got on the plane it was all fine and i was having a great trip but i think the thing that makes me mad is any bad customer service where the promise the brand and the service don't match up and it's also the marketer in me because i then want to solve it so i then get involved with the staff going you know what you should be doing right now is you know giving me this and that you know and they must think who's this dude you know it makes me mental that the airlines can't figure out among the alliances how to make this a smooth frictionless way of connecting the dots between if I fly Delta or I fly somebody in the alliance, why can't I more easily connect these?

20:56So I actually think it's a pretty bad experience across all of the businesses, but I totally agree. That was actually my fourth on the list, was my list of things that make me mental is bad customer service. The first one for me as a New Yorker living in San Francisco is San Franciscans crossing the street. This makes me insane. And I have tried to do it their way. And I just can't no matter how hard I try. So for those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, they follow the rules, even if there are no cars. so they are standing on the street corner the light is not in your favor okay i get it but there's no cars what are you waiting for so i like rev up the engine and i'm like all right we're gonna cross right we're gonna cross right and they don't they wait until the hand says it's okay to cross i'm like i can't live like this it makes me insane can i put a case for that the San Franciscans over to you, right?

22:10Because you should try being an Englishman in New York. I almost got killed yesterday. I don't know. The cars are allowed to go over when it's your turn as a pedestrian. What's that about? This woman was like this far from me. I literally just steered all the way around me as I walked across. It scares the living daylights out of you because we expect to be in San Francisco, right? When it comes to New York, it's completely different. Completely different. How many English people have died in New York? Right. And thank God they say look both ways because obviously we look the way that we're used to.

22:42And then you forget the other way until you almost get run over. And then you're like, that's why they said that. The double whammy fingers, people. We're looking the wrong way as the car's going this way through a light. Yeah. All right. What's the second thing that makes you mental? Any admin whatsoever. Like, I've got the biggest expenses bill in the company, like by far, because I've got like three years. and I just cannot do it. My brain, James will back me up on this, my brain just doesn't compute in, I can't do processy things. You know, we have to sit down and concentrate on this and that and put this in and that.

23:18My brain just goes all over the place. I'm great at creative thoughts and joining dots that no one else thinks, but doing a process thing, I just can't stick at it. So I think I'm owed like 30 ,000 pounds or something. Well, the good news is you can fix that because folks around you can help you with the stuff that you're not i know but then they want things like receipts like this is really hard work like it's only because we went out for dinner last night and james was literally when i signed the check the bill like he literally is like take a photo of that you'll thank me later you know it's like five hundred dollars that i wouldn't have got back otherwise the second thing that makes me mental eating in bed oh i i cannot handle even for a second the thought of crumbs in your bed.

24:05I don't care if I'm in a hotel room. I don't care. There's no eating in bed, folks. Like none. Do not deliver me a tray in bed. Bring me breakfast. Breakfast in bed. Who came up with this idea? Are you out of your mind? Like, no, there cannot be. I'm sorry. There cannot be food in the bed. It's just it's totally unacceptable. When I was living in the dorm. I mean, essentially your dorm room is a bed, right? I mean, everybody literally has a bed and a desk. I had a friend who was, would wear his food and he was so crummy. So I went to the stores living downtown Manhattan at the time. And there was one of those like Gidgets and Gadgets places.

24:47And I got one of those little hand vacs and I would vacuum him because he was getting crumbs on my crouton, on my futon, my crouton. Croutons in bed are a bad idea also. So for me, like crumbs in the bed, it just makes me absolutely mental, almost as mental as my third thing. And then we'll finish on your third, which is my husband chewing gum. I can handle a lot of people chewing gum. I don't have a problem with gum chewing. I really don't. But when my husband choose gum like I want to punch him in the face what's your third thing my third thing's probably going to be um deciding what to wear and and the reason I only wear black now is just to remove any decision making in my life well there is a book the earned life since you're the the great book reader and the author his name escapes me right now we'll come back to it he is the executive coach for some of the greatest CEOs in the world.

25:52And one of the things that he talks about is you have to leave as much room for strategic decision making power as possible, which means you have to eliminate small decisions, as many of them as possible. And that's why Steve Jobs and a lot of CEOs, you'll see we're the same thing. They have a uniform. And it's actually a strategic decision. Because when you remove making yourself mental on what you're going to wear and how you're going to show up in the world, you're freeing up decision making capacity for the important stuff. And as I was reading this, I'm like, ladies, we've been putting ourselves at a disadvantage for a very long time, because we every day put a lot of decision making energy and muscle into how we present ourselves to the world so it's something I've been thinking a lot about of this idea of how do you remove all of those smaller decisions so that your brain is ready to handle the bigger stuff that comes your way you remind me actually Rory Sutherland to one of the most popular guests on the show as well I was interviewing him about a year ago, and we were on stage, and we had these tiny, tiny stools, you know, like pop bands might sit on them.

27:17They're about that wide. And he's a larger kind of guy, right? And he just said to me, he literally walked up, he said, get rid of them now, sort of thing. He said, I'll be spending 50 % of my cognitive load just balancing on this kind of stool, not wanting to fall off. So the reason podcasters have nice chairs like this is actually because you want someone to be comfortable and focused on what they're thinking about, not balancing, you know, balancing on a stage on the stool kind of thing. That makes total sense. All right, you ready for the third question? Go on, hit me with the third one. All right, the third question is, what do you do to recharge?

27:49So obviously recharging is critical. I think most of us come back from the holiday very fresh, very energetic, clear thinking, new ideas. And it's because we took five minutes over the break to disconnect. So how do you recharge? Where do you like plug in and get that energy field? Okay, well, unfortunately, I have to play on a complete stereotype here of the mammal, which if anyone doesn't know, is middle-aged man in Lycra. So it horrified me, the idea of wearing Lycra as a man, actually. And then I got into cycling and suddenly it gets uber-competitive about who's got the tightest Lycra and, you know, the most aerodynamic Lycra.

28:27And it's really expensive as well. It costs a fortune as well to get the proper gear. Anyway, personally, and this is probably a universal insight, I'm sure lots of people will be like this. But when you exercise, it just releases all the things that are going on your head. And because you're in a different kind of mindset, I find everything falls into place. So I'll be out on a long bike ride, you know, 50, 60 miles or whatever. The amount of ideas that will come to me or the solutions I'll have. And it feels like and also when I take time out of my working week to go on the kind of turbo trainer indoors, it feels like I'm cheating.

28:59like oh i should be working but the amount of value i get back in that hour because i'm not only looked after my body but i've given my mind an opportunity to kind of get into a different way of thinking i just find that hugely hugely energizing and you've been really into the cycling thing yeah well it's a bit scary actually because um about one of the one of the nice things about your podcast is people send you stuff right because they want you to talk about it so i've I've got like this. Like Lycra. Like this Whoop, by the way. Big shout out to Whoop. But Zwift, you know Zwift? They're like the indoor bikes.

29:33So it's a bit like Peloton where it's like a bike and you can race other people. Hugely competitive. It's very good. And the CMO there, Steve, wonderful guy, messaged James and I and said, oh, do you want to come and do a stage of the Tour de France? They sponsored the women's Tour de France, Tour de France avec Zwift. And we got to do a stage. we've got to do the hardest stage they don't pick an easy one right they pick what they call the queen stage which is the one with the most mountains in now i'd now on this route i'd never even done the equivalent of the first hill you know let alone the big mountain it kind of finished off um and what was cool about that is like i had to train really hard there was no excuses i had to go out and put the training in and i live in um near london where it's like pan flat there's there's no hills kind of thing so it was great because i got to get you know i got to train i got to go out and spend time with them and the day before which is so cool they put us in the team car uh following the women as they went on the race so we got to see all the action and i i couldn't believe how fast it was so we're in a car it felt like we're in a valley driving because you know the roads are mountainous and narrow but i say it's one of the best days of my life it was just very very cool and then the following day we actually did we did what they do is they close the race sorry They close the roads.

30:47And you have to do the course before the women catch you up. Right? So I didn't know this, by the way. I didn't know there was a time limit. Right? So James and I are taking our time. We're pacing ourselves. We're enjoying the scenery. We stop for a bite to eat. And then this red car pulls up. And it says, end of the race. And they're closing it down so the professional women are coming past. And this is like about 30 miles into 120 miles. so that we then had to pelt it all the way to the finish line and we got there with three minutes to spare before the the pros came whizzing vast so that was a bit scary oh my gosh for me the answer is nature and the more time i spend in nature the more i realize the wisdom of the whist the the whispering rhythm of everyday life and all of the answers are actually right in front of us we're just not looking for them.

31:41So I just had a beautiful holiday on Dominica, Dominica, which is not to be confused with the Dominican Republic. And it is called Nature Island. And I've got four peas that I took away from that trip. The first one is pineapples. And I had never seen a pineapple grow from the ground. So I was mesmerized by the fact that it is a single pineapple in a single small spiky plant and what that said to me is we don't put enough emphasis on the slow burn it takes two years for that plant to gift a pineapple and in this world of instinct gratification sometimes you need to step back and realize that nurturing the soil and watering the roots and all of the energy that you put behind something you may not see the result today but it's coming.

32:38The second one is parrots. So this one is because the nation's parrot, it's called the jacko parrot, is something that birders will come from far and wide to see. It's endemic to the island of Dominica. And we had just come back from hiking a waterfall and there were these two birders who had the telescopic lenses and they were full-on, you know, experts, the gear, the whole thing. I mean, they were like, you know, you with your lycra, they were really expensive, ready for action. And they were sitting there for hours. And as I'm waiting for my lemonade with fresh herbs to, you know, get energy after the hike, I was like, hey, you guys look disappointed.

33:23They're like, we've been here for hours. We haven't seen anything. And I'm like, what are you looking for? They're like parrots. I turned around and there's a jacko parrot 10 feet away from us in the tree. They were so reliant on their expertise that they missed what was right in front of their face. And that moment really made me pause and reflect on the fact that we can't have our expertise be a crutch that takes us away from being present and grounded. It was right there the whole time. And it took the eye of someone who was coming in without these preconceived notions that I need a telescopic lens and it has to be far away to see what was right in front of their faces.