Why brave creativity means business results according to GUT co-founder Anselmo Ramos

32:34I've got to spend it in the next two weeks. Like, it sounds crazy, but, you know, throw me an idea. And in fact, that's what, so I've only won two lines, right? So I know, you know, you're the king of can here. But I've only entered twice, I should just make that clear. but actually the the two lines i won was speculatively spending some money that i had left over at the end of the year and i spoke to the ecd and i said dude i got 250 000 pounds give me the best idea you got and i also said i don't need to approve it you have complete freedom

33:11Anselmo Ramos:to just make the vision that's in your head yeah and man that was the most successful thing creatively in terms of, you know, advertising you've ever done. Just goes to show. I think, you know, talking about approvals, right? That's one of the biggest struggles that we have. It's that the approval that happens in the meeting. It's becoming like super rare, man. It never happens, you know. It's like, I love it. Let's make it happen. It's so rare because sometimes, you know, But you have, especially in big companies, they have to align internally. They have to show to someone that needs to give a final blessing.

33:55Anselmo Ramos:And there are a lot of layers. And I think we're missing that beautiful moment, almost like a madman moment, where I love this idea. Let's make it happen. But I think it's going back to what we've talked about in terms of your gut. You're exactly right. the best ad I never made didn't get made because I didn't approve it immediately on the spot. So I remember it got pitched to me. I tingles down my spine. It was a magic. Culturally, it was such a good idea. It was at a particular moment. It was leaning into attention and culture. It was on brand. It was surprising. It was during the World Cup, whole things, right?

34:36All the things. it tingles down my spine and they pitched it and i'm just like that's a five-star ad i've just that is a five-star guaranteed right yeah we have to do this and we didn't and because i let myself after leaving the room going oh i must just check and it killed it because by the time i went through the oh does it align with our strategy oh does the ceo think this is a good idea oh what you know The moment I went through that cycle, within a week or two, we'd end up making the plan B idea, which was the safe idea. And we didn't even make that idea in the end because it just felt so underwhelming that at the end of it, we rerun the previous year's ad.

35:18And I'm just so gutted because I just didn't trust my gut in that moment. And I allowed the rational part just to take over and go through the approval process. And actually looking back as well, I think I had the authority to sign it off. I was doubting myself. It wasn't the case of I wasn't, I was the CMO, right? I could have done it. And in fact, with the previous example, I did do it. I signed it off. I remember saying to my CEO, the first time you see this ad, you'll see it on TV as a viewer. And he was like, I like it. He said, I like it. And it was the opposite to what I was expecting to get into trouble.

35:54And he was like, no, great. I love the fact that you're confident about it.

35:57Anselmo Ramos:I love that. And I didn't back myself the second time. and it's so annoying yeah it's it's really powerful when a client says i love this idea let's make it happen yeah it's very powerful so powerful and it doesn't happen that often and you know it's a lot of back and forth and overthinking in our job also part of our job is to try to instill confidence you know to in the clients to make to make it happen you know and also you know it's tricky because you know at the beginning of the agency because we are a brave agency for brave clients a lot of clients wouldn't come to us because they would say well we're not ready we're not a brave organization and it was very binary right oh people tend to think you're either bravery or not brave in a very binary way and and at that point we realized well it's not But it doesn't work like that.

36:55Anselmo Ramos:It's a journey. It's a choice. So at that point, I think it was year four, we created bravery scale. And the bravery scale is such a helpful tool because it goes from zero to 10. And zero is you are just completely fearful of life. You don't even leave your bed in the morning. And 10 is there's no other way to live. And five is sometimes brave, sometimes safe. and then, you know, we have conversations with clients and we ask them two things. We say, hey, where are you on the Braver scale? And, you know, from zero to 10. And there's no right answer, right? It's a feeling from a personal perspective.

37:37Anselmo Ramos:You forget your brand from a very personal perspective as a marketer. And they'll say like, well, I'm a six example or I'm a seven. Okay, cool. What about your brand now? Where's your brand on the Braver scale? And they'll say, well, my brand right now, it's a four, it's a three. And that's usually what happens. We've done that hundreds of times with many, many clients and brands. And the average is always six, seven for a personal perspective and three, four from a brand perspective. Wow, how interesting. That's just data. You just described the problem, right? That, exactly, that's the problem.

38:19The gap between personal ambition.

38:21Anselmo Ramos:We call that the bravery gap. The gap between your own bravery as a person, how you rate yourself, and the bravery of your brand that you are responsible for. And our job as an agency is to close that bravery gap. And from our experience, it takes one year to move up one stage. So if you are a three now, you can become an eight in five years, not overnight. because it's a process and it's not easy. But for us, it's a very interesting conversation to have at the beginning of the relationship, but also once a year. Because once a year, I would say, hey, we were at three next year. Are we at four now?

39:03Anselmo Ramos:I think we are. Okay, cool. Next year, five. That's such good framework. In fact, funnily enough, actually, you've sort of resolved something in my head, actually, because I spent seven years working at System 1, which is kind of creative ad testing. And people are like, but John, you're a really creative person. Why are you spending time testing creative, which is a very rational thing to do? Yeah. And I said, you're slightly misunderstanding the why here. Because actually, as a client, on the bravery scale, I'd be 6 '7". The business would be 3 '4", right? That would be the reality I'd face.

39:35Anselmo Ramos:Yeah. What I was doing was giving my internal stakeholders the rational case for bravery. So it wasn't necessarily, it wasn't I was marking the work. It wasn't that I was kind of like giving the creatives loads of feedback on their ideas. is that I wanted permission from the organization to raise that bar. So people misunderstood often because they'd be like, yeah, we don't want creative testing involved in this. And I'd be like, there's a different reason for doing it. And what you've articulated brilliantly for me, actually I was unconsciously doing this, was I was trying to close the bravery gap by taking away the fear, by using corporate measures and rational numbers to make the emotional happen.

40:19Anselmo Ramos:Yeah. Also, it's really interesting. We have a whole presentation, a two-hour presentation about the bravery scale. And it's like, okay, if you're a two, here are like three or four things you can do if you're a two to become a three. Or if you're a nine, here what you should be doing to stay at nine and don't go back to, you know, down the scale. so for every stage it's like three to four things you should be doing to move up or to stay up there so give me an example of what sort of things would you ask at the bottom of the scale versus off the scale as an example like examples if you are the bottom of the scale like really if you're like a two you need to start just um you know example watching everything you know and getting to know the industry and it's about advertising knowledge just watch everything for the category from you know from can lions from you know and then you know at the bottom of the scale invite guest speakers you know to come to your company and talk about it you know it's like really basic basic stuff and then if you move up a little bit let's say if you are a five we start saying things like okay maybe start maybe start internal awards to create healthy competition for your internal marketing teams for different brands and and countries that's one thing you can do or you create like abi has uh the creative spectrum like um a system that helps people talk about an idea Oh, is this like stereotypical or is this iconic?

42:00Anselmo Ramos:Oh, this is four. This is stereotypical. This is 10. It's iconic. You need common language internally and also with your partners. What's your creative ambition as a company? So write down the creative ambition. It's so many tips that a lot of clients don't have, a lot of brands don't have. And we are lucky. We work with great organizations and sometimes we take those tools and systems for granted. But a lot of companies don't have that. So it's like, okay, at this stage you should be doing this. You should be thinking about that. But yeah, it's a journey. It is. And it's daily. It's a conscious daily choice.

42:45The unexpected surprise for me going back to Kat, I did a talk two years ago with Adam Morgan called The Extraordinary Cost of Being Dull. Oh, yeah. And I was blown away by how many businesses who are three, four, wanted me and Adam to come and present to them. Because as soon as they framed not being brave as a cost, they got it. And they said, oh, can you present it to our finance team? Can you present it to our commercial team? Because suddenly it was language they understood. It's a costly thing to be at the bottom of that scale.

43:20Anselmo Ramos:Exactly. And it's not a risky thing to be at the top of the scale. The risky thing is not to be at the top of the scale. Exactly. The riskiest thing you can do is to be, you know. And John, which brings me to our business proposition. As an agency, our business proposition is very simple. It's bravery means business. Okay? That's it. What do we mean by that? We believe that brave creativity, that brave work drives business results. As simple as that. So if you understand that from a client perspective, from a CFO perspective, it's very effective. Because I'm going to spend less money and more people will talk about it.

44:02Anselmo Ramos:100%. Great. Who doesn't want that? Now, in order for me to deliver that, bravery means business, I need to reverse that line. And I need to understand your business to deliver bravery. Right? the more I understand about your business, you know, client, like your brand, your category, like, you know, the factory, how your product is made and price point, distribution, like everything, the more I can find opportunities to be brave for your brand and for your company. So that's how it works. We believe bravery means business, but the more I understand about your business, the more, the braver we can be together.

44:45Anselmo Ramos:I love that. It's as simple as that. It reminds me of the iconic story Sir John Hegarty tells of Audi. BBH had Audi for, I think, 30 years. It may still do, actually. And Vorsprung der Technik, as an idea, came from him being on a factory tour. And he saw the manual for how the machine was operated. So good. Isn't it? Like that closeness. So good. Closeness. Such an iconic line. It is, isn't it? Yeah. And just shows. There's a Japanese word called gemba, which is basically being where the decisions, being on the front line effectively. So whether it's in the factory floor, whether it's in front of your customers in the store, whatever.

45:24But they have this philosophy of make the decision where the action happens. Because the closer you are to the gemba, the shop floor, there's no distance between you and the information you need to make a decision. and I think as you get bigger as an organization, as the brand gets bigger, you start looking in, you start having internal politics and discussions. The more you spend time at the Gemba, every decision becomes obvious.

45:49Anselmo Ramos:I love that. Yeah, such a good concept. Yeah, stay close to the factory floor. Yeah, stay close to the factory floor. Now, I must talk about black t-shirts. You mentioned black t-shirts twice, right? Now, also going back to Cannes, I remember actually sticking on the Sir John Hegarty theme. so Orlando Wood and John Hegarty got together and they created this new course called Advertising Principles Explained trying to kind of train the industry and how to think and and all the evidence base for the kind of stuff we're talking about now the reason I tell that story is because I was in the big auditorium in the palais when they announced this it was amazing as I walked out I saw you and the entire gut team and what I think was about 500 black t-shirts piled up outside yeah so you're taking the black t-shirt idea to the extreme but yeah talk to me about where the black t-shirt idea came from it's a couple things um first of all it's so interesting how you nils and i you know we have this black tea club and we're all like fighting to see who started that trend nils if you're listening to this it wasn't you I know you think you are the OG, but I don't think so.

47:03Anselmo Ramos:Anyway, for us, it started for a couple of reasons. One, when we had Stefan Zagmeister and Jessica Walsh to design our logo, which was very expensive because we had nothing, and we were starting the agency, and it took me like two months to convince Gaston to spend money on that logo, on that beautiful logo. When they were presenting the logo to us, we were like oh my god we were so nervous because oh we're clients now you know we need to be brave clients but we have a question we said listen it's a beautiful logo but have you considered colors and jessica and stefan said no it's got you are about bravery it's black and white that's it It's black, secondary white.

47:51Anselmo Ramos:Okay. From that moment on, you know, that's all I wear. Wow. Because that's the brand. Yeah. It's about bravery. Yeah. So that's one thing. The second thing is like when Gaston and I, you know, we had to take a picture for Ad Age. And then the photographer said, okay, that's the logo. It's about bravery. Just wear black tees. Okay. And that was it. and and then became a thing you know it's really interesting like it's just to clarify okay it's not mandatory it's optional but if you go to any gun office it's like the 12 offices that we have you know across the globe i'll say that at any given time there's like half of the people wearing black teeth because they won not because it's just a thing it became a thing but now it's part of our identity and and i think it's really powerful you know it's not a uniform it's just something that we like i love it you know and you know it's really cute when we see sometimes a young team coming for an interview already wearing black t's it's amazing it's really cute that is amazing yeah love it well long live the black t-shirt that's for sure for sure Now, when we last met, we went out for a beer afterwards.

49:18Yeah. And we had a lovely chat because you were right in the middle of making probably one of the biggest decisions of your entire life.

49:25Anselmo Ramos:Yeah. You'd been approached, I think, at that point by Globement to acquire the business. And you were 50-50 and you and Gaston were thinking it through. And it was lovely, actually, to kind of be let inside, you know, your thought process, isn't it? and then a few weeks later you did the deal looking back what has changed as a result of that acquisition yeah I remember that I remember that beer that we had and um and me you know and when I was sharing with you I was 50 50 for me it was a process right when when I started God I was like yeah let's I was so happy to be independent for the first time in my career I could do whatever the hell I wanted.

50:09Anselmo Ramos:So I was just enjoying the moment. I was like, I want to be indie forever. Like why then? Let's just be indie forever. So when GlobeBund called us, and by the way, they still are, one of our clients. So yeah, so we had a call. Gaston and I, we had a call with them. It was like, okay, I think it's a call about the relationship or the campaign. And they said, yeah, we want to acquire God. I was like, what? it's kind of too soon you know it's been like five years and it's not common for a client to consider even consider acquiring you know its own agency and then you know at first i didn't want to and gaston wanted to and then we talked about it we we you know we spent a weekend together with them asking everything and it was great you know we had some approaches over the years from typical holding companies, we always said no.

51:08Anselmo Ramos:But in this case, it was different. It's a tech company. It's one of our clients. We actually know them for three years. We've been selling ideas to them. We know them. And it's one of our clients. It's a tech company. They don't do what we do. It's very complementary, actually, because it's very strategic and complementary. because now if you think about creativity and tech, we can offer both to our clients. We can do everything you need from, everything brands need from a tech perspective, from a digital perspective, and also comms. So it's very complementary, very strategic. So yeah, that happened like three years ago.

51:54Anselmo Ramos:And it has been incredible because they leave us alone. they don't do what we do. We don't do what they do. It's very different, right? We are learning a lot, like a lot from a tech perspective, from an AI perspective now. Like it's incredible the amount of stuff we are learning, like new things. The language is completely different, the way they talk, you know, they are engineers and it's really interesting. We're learning a lot. They're also learning with us how to sell better what they do, or how to package in a more interesting way what they do. So it's been incredible. Haven't they brought the marketing services under Gut in terms of positioning as well?

52:41So does that mean that Gut is the brand that customers engage with and you provide access to the system?

52:46Anselmo Ramos:Yes, so that happened last year, in the middle of last year. They had acquired a couple of companies before Gut, a digital marketing company, a media company, you know, health and pharma. And at some point they offered us, why don't, you know, you guys take care of everything? And we call that the gut network. And we said, okay, I love saying yes to things that I haven't done before. For me, it's one of the secrets of life. You know, it's something that we haven't done before and it fell right. So we said yes. And that's exactly what we're doing right now. you know so god now because of that deal we have 2 000 people and we have 12 offices and it's crazy and and now what's happening is we are learning a lot with marketing services because they're bringing capabilities that we didn't have before and they're very smart very talented so we're learning a lot and now we are just a more interesting agency for our clients because we can offer a lot of things that we couldn't before at the same time we're teaching them the gutsy way of doing things yeah you know like okay our values our principles and we have everything written down we i think we do a lot of things wrong but one thing that we do right is we capture everything we do yeah we have lots of decks and documents and you know everything there's We have a name for everything.

54:26Anselmo Ramos:We have a label for everything. So we capture everything. And now we're teaching them and trying to inspire them. Okay, this is God. This is how we operate. So it's been a beautiful exchange of knowledge and experiences. And we are still doing it. It's been like six months, eight months. We're still doing it because it's a lot of people, a lot of markets, a lot of capabilities. It's a beautiful challenge. the other day I was talking to Gaston when I joined Ogilvy Brazil like a long time ago my challenge was to revive a culture you know, no one was talking about David Ogilvy so the job number one was hey, David Ogilvy said amazing things all we had to do was live up to everything that he said the culture was there, it was just no one was talking about it, right when we started David, it was about starting a culture within a culture because it was about the first name of the same person.

55:28Anselmo Ramos:So it was like a subculture. That was David. Gut was the first time that we started a culture from scratch. Blank page, you can design whatever you want. And it was a beautiful experience, right? You design from scratch, whatever you want. Now, it's like, okay, It's about expanding a culture, which is a new phase for us. How do you expand the gut culture to new markets, to new capabilities? But also, how do you assimilate other cultures? So we are learning a lot. We're obsessed about culture. Everything's about culture. If you have a strong culture as a company, everything else is a consequence of that.

56:14Anselmo Ramos:every decision the way you operate how you present how you talk to clients it's all about your culture so that's what's happening right now i'm super excited that's so important i mean the other the other thing thought that occurs as you talk about that is we rarely think about what kind of exit we want when we start something because when you start a business i guess like me with this is right you know you you're so excited about doing yes and not thinking where you're going and i mean one of the best experiences I ever had in private equity was where on day one, literally turning up at the factory with the team, very first day, the private equity company said, we're going to write the exit document.

56:51They call it the investment memorandum, you know, that would be sent out to potential people to buy. The first question was, who would we like to buy us? In what circumstances? Why? And what would have to be true for them to acquire us at this level? And then we wrote, what people would we need? What factory capacity would we need? What brand would we need? what innovation would we need to demonstrate, what supply chain skills would we need to have. And what was amazing about it is we ended up, after a day workshopping it, it was one page. And I've never been so clear about what I'm here to do.

57:22So almost if you start with the end in mind and work back, suddenly all your decisions become very obvious. Well, of course we'd do this. Of course we'd enter this market in this way by doing it like this. We'd bring forward this capital investment. We'd hire these kind of people. But it's a question I think when I meet founders and people in the scale-ups that, you know, you rarely ask the question, what happens next? Where does this go? It's important to ask.

57:46Anselmo Ramos:Yeah, it's an important question because there's no one model, right? There are many models. You can be indie forever. You can get acquired. You can, you know, prepare the second generation. It could become a family business. You have so many different business models and they're all valid. It depends on what's right for you. In our case, we chose to get acquired not by the whole company. No, we didn't want that. But a tech company, that was interesting. That's interesting. Especially if you look at what's happening now, you know, with tech and AI. Of course, yeah. So, yes, it makes a lot of sense, you know.

58:22It makes so much sense because the amount of squeeze on the creative industries as well and the amount of expansion in tech, kind of positioning the creative insight and opportunity and thinking into that tech space, I can do it. Yeah.

58:35Anselmo Ramos:So it's about creativity and tech together like never before. So there's nothing we can't do really. I love that. Now, we must talk a bit about the work. Yeah. I don't want to miss the opportunity to talk about the work. And I'd love to talk about Stellar, partly because it's a brand I love and I'm a big fan of the kind of work you do. And I think your work on Stellar shows a strength in depth as well creatively because you've done so many things and you've touched in so many areas. And partly as well, while I like it, it's a real example of gut. So everything you've done on that brand has emotion at the heart.

59:11And my colleague Orlando, who wrote this amazing book called Look Out, would describe it as right brain featured. Yeah. Right brain features. So, I mean, he talks about, you know, stories and characters and music and humor and references to the past. All these things that are true in culture, whether it's going to the movie, the theater, books, literature, all those kind of things. which are really good let's start with the artois probability yeah this is probably the first well you tell me actually i mean this is the first um bit of your work that got on my radar

59:42Anselmo Ramos:yes it won a grand prix at can it was a grand prix yes was that one because stella i think it was your first global account as well wasn't it yes was that the first breakthrough bit of work on the brand yeah stella to i is very special for us for many reasons well first of all as an ed I grew up in this business admiring all the Stella work from the UK, reassuringly expensive. It was incredible. My first gold at the one show was for Stella. And that was the year that my second daughter was born. And she's named Stella. Is she? Yeah, so my Ednard friends tell me, I think we know what she's named Stella.

1:00:34Anselmo Ramos:So the fact that now we are the global AOR for Stella is very emotional for me. And yes, it was our first global AOR. So we work with Stella in many countries and we made it got offices and it's a very special relationship. We have a group of people called House of Stella and is half clients, half agency. And we just are the guardians of the brand. Love that. Yeah, it's beautiful and it works beautifully. And it's very special. And the auto-operability was one of the first ideas we did. And yes, you got a grand praying can. It's very surprising as well. Just explain it briefly because anyone who's not seen it, go check it out if you haven't seen it.

1:01:22It's very, very clever. It's quite a surprising idea, but very clever.

1:01:26Anselmo Ramos:It's a very simple idea. Stelartois, they've been around forever, you know, since the 1300s. And it's a very simple observation. If you look at classic paintings, you know, oil paintings, in a lot of them you see beer, right? A glass of beer. And we said, wait a minute. If Stelartois has been around since the 1300s, maybe that beer could be a Stelartois. It's just a very simple observation. And by the way, the best ideas, they are born like that, right? And then we said, okay, what if we just go deeper and using tech, we actually create the Artois probability. What's the probability of that beer in that painting be a Stelartois based on many different kinds of data?

1:02:20Anselmo Ramos:proximity, you know, from the brewery or the color of the liquid. And it's just like a different data, right? And then we created that, the Artois probability. So we'll see like a painting from Renoir and say, well, that painting has 75 % of Artois probability. That's it. That's brilliant. That's the idea. Very simple. and it also it's very interesting because that's creative data is creative and tech that's the core of the idea and also that painting is worth more right which is yes which is the concept yeah which is the concept of the brand you know this beer is worth more so yeah that's one of the first ideas and what i like about that as well is it does something that so few brands do which is look into its past to guide its future and like so many brands have got this rich history and heritage but everyone wants to change rather than going what have i already got yes in my brand dna history in the archives that i can use it's such a creative yes john some in most cases the answer is in the past when you look at brands right because sometimes we are like obsessed with the new obsessed with the next and we try to reinvent too much like hey what if the brand is about this now it's completely not related to the foundations of the brand so when you go back in history and you really study what the brand is all about and why the brand was founded and the founder story usually the answer is there but yes you're right now talking about history another one i i love this one from last year where you took wimbledon right as well as an idea now wimbledon is so british so consistent so much about heritage and tradition and when you watch tennis players anywhere else in the world they're wearing bright colors they're you know everyone wears different kit you go to wimbledon and everyone has to wear whites the umpire has to wear the green and you know purple and all the rest of it and it's the wimbledon brand must have the tightest brand guidelines on the planet you know and in fact in years ago i worked on the robinsons brand and we were a sponsor for 80 years um you know so there's always a bottle of robinson's under the umpire's chair and they have a you know it back in the day these the players used to have a drink of it before they played but i love how you took the constraint of the wimbledon tradition and actually used it for some packaging and calls inspiration didn't you yeah that was such a great idea it was very simple again to your point wimbledon has a lot of rules okay what if we just embrace them you know um and that was a very simple idea the white can for stellar trois and it's it's very design driven and it was a beautiful beautiful collaboration with jkr so thanks jkr we love working with you and i think it's a great example of two agencies were collaborating for a brand.

1:05:28Anselmo Ramos:And it was just a very simple idea, but the idea kept growing and growing. The whole thing became about that. And we did out of home and social posts, everything around the white can. And now this year, we're going even bigger with the idea. So it almost becomes a platform. So yeah, we love that one. It's very simple. And I think people often forget how important packaging is as a media channel. It's your biggest media channel. And if you can combine your media and your packaging together, boom, you've got something that just works brilliantly. A great example of that. The other thing, the other partnership as well that you've created, which I think has been amazing, is the Beckham partnership.

1:06:08Anselmo Ramos:Oh, yeah. And I loved your Times Square outdoor poster, which just had his hand. Yes. And even Beckham's hand was recognizable in that shot as well. Yeah, that was a great, that was a simple idea. It was a gold lion. Very simple idea. You know, that was like, you know, a partnership with Dave Beckham. And the execution is so simple. It's just his hand holding the beer. And it's about, you know, this is the new face for Stelartois. Unfortunately, his face was a bit distracting, right? It's simple. It's very simple because you can see it's him. You don't need to see his face. It's his hand, his tattoos, right?

1:06:51Anselmo Ramos:Very, very simple. but yeah it's it's uh it's a great relationship you know they it's a great beer it's a great brand but also again going back to relationships we have a great relationship and we all want the same things yeah so it's easier that way it's always hard but it's slightly easier right when you have all those things in place and the other thing you're doing there as well which which comes on to my next one is the role of humor oh yeah and i i noticed it i know this from um spending seven years on the system on databases we don't use humor enough and if you were to divide that divide all the 120 000 ads whatever is on that database between those that use humor and those that don't the humor ad score an average of 3.4 versus 2.4 that you've got a whole star uplift because as human beings we'd love to be entertained yeah and humor is makes us feel more it makes us things more memorable we're more likely to tell other people if we've got a joke yeah now your most recent campaign as well i really love this and it demonstrates probably everything we've talked about in terms of emotion and creating that but it's so simple and a lot of your ideas are you you know you you make a really simple idea and really focus on execution but your recent one about celebrations where you've got david in a bar drinking the beer and then it's like this slow motion you can see everyone's faces and reaction and you've got this amazing music and that's something i think as well actually going into what makes advertising work is the power of music as well well yeah it's huge isn't it 50 yeah i mean i checked this one out in the system on database so it's the it was the it was number 58 out of 2 ,518 beer ads in the in the in the u.s wow so it's in the top tiny little percentage okay good so it really really cuts yeah but that was so emotive isn't it you know taking one scene and making people feel yeah something and again when you have um clear brand positioning and brand line like in this case worth more everything is easier so okay we have david is the world cup what happens when you celebrate a goal well you spill beer because you jump and then you are super happy and just spilling beer all over not if i have installed or two you're gonna be a little more contained right so that speaks to the idea everyone's jumping up and down and spilling beer everywhere and david is just holding to his stella because it's worth it i love the craft though in that because oh yeah it's the juxtaposition because that moment is chaotic, noisy, disruptive.

1:09:33Anselmo Ramos:Slow motion, music. It's all about execution. And you've done the opposite, which is everything goes in slow motion. The orchestral kind of music over the top makes it feel like it's the end of an orchestra. It's a simple premise. The best ideas are, what if we just do that? It's just one line. It's just a nugget. And then, yes, it's how we're going to bring that to life, which is the craft. But they always start with just a simple thought. It's just like, yeah, I think this is something here. But yeah. I think what's interesting about this and actually all the stellar examples we've given is that you actually reduce, the idea is reduced first, isn't it?

1:10:15Yeah. And then you sort of blow up the execution, but you come down to what's the simplest articulation of the idea and the insight. Exactly. And then how do we exaggerate that in beautiful ways?

1:10:26Anselmo Ramos:We're always looking for a simple idea. So it's just a line. But then the execution, the craft, it's everything. How do you bring that to life? I've learned that a lot, actually, in my career, is how important. This is where I think AI doesn't work. Because often you start with a nugget of an idea, but actually the process you go through, even like picking a director or the treatment or the editing, so much of the idea either grows or reduces. in that process of back and forwards and inputs and testing and so on. And that, I think, in the age of AI, we're losing that because you go straight to the execution, right?

1:11:07And you lose the ability for that craft, that process of craft.

1:11:11Anselmo Ramos:For me, AI is a great selling tool. That's basically what it is for now, for us as an agency. It's not a creative tool. It's unique humans to come up. You know, I ask the creatives, Hi, guys, you tried to use AI, right? To answer this brief. Yeah, but it doesn't work. It's not good. It's not fresh enough. It's not guts enough. It's not brave enough. It's just, it's not. But to help you to sell an idea, amazing. It's incredible. It helps a lot. You know, it's just, everything's faster. And it helps clients to visualize things, right? So they don't have to, you don't have to read a script. You can just show a video.

1:11:57Oh, that's, that's, you've hit something there. Because actually one of the, one of the challenges I've always had selling in creative ideas is I've been able in my head to imagine how this ends up. And what I realized when I'm presenting to people that aren't as creative, let's say, they're more rational. They react to the stimulus.

1:12:15Anselmo Ramos:Yeah. They go, why have you got this like cartoon image? And I don't forget about the cartoon image. I know. That's just like a, you know, that's just like a scamp or it's a sketch, right? Yeah. Think about the idea and how, you know, all that sort of thing. But so many people get stuck in the execution of the early stage of the idea and they can't make the mental leap to the possibilities. And AI just jumps over that because you just create this what looks like a Hollywood movie. Yeah. Oh, I love it. It's amazing. You know, the thing we sell, we sell ideas for a living. That's what we do. Ideas are very fragile and they're very hard to explain.

1:12:48Anselmo Ramos:They're hard to visualize and to see the potential behind it. It's so hard to sell ideas. Right. And AI helps you because, okay, it's more tangible. I can see it. I can feel something. Also, it's easier to sell internally, right? So a client takes that video and they can just forward to the CEO or to whoever needs to see it. It's just easier, right? You don't rely on a creative performing and reading a script. Sometimes there's still value on that, but it's just, I think AI accelerates the selling process. Yeah. And that's great. I love that. Yeah. That's really spot on. Well, maybe to round us off then, and thank you, this has been such a cool conversation.

1:13:33Always a pleasure. I touched on so many things. I could talk for hours. I know, I know. I'm feeling that too. I hardly touched on loads of your great work. But anyone listening and watching this, go to the GUT website, download it, lose yourself in the case studies. I mean, I haven't even talked about my favorite ones from DoorDash even. anyway um go look up guard door dash and be inspired it's very very cool stuff um maybe just to round us off what's the single best bit of advice you've ever been given in your life

1:14:03Anselmo Ramos:i think you know to not be afraid to think big right like don't be afraid and just think as big as you can and I think I'm pretty good at that but you know I think that nowadays right when I think about young talent starting the business I think that's very important you know like dream big like really do just dream as big as you can you know because without a dream you do know what to do your life you know you wake up every day it's like what's the point you know what i'm doing this why i'm going to work you know you put on alarm clock and you dress yourself and you go to work why what's the what's the dream that's driving you like because it's very hard so i think when you dream big it just everything else it's easier because you have a goal and anything that's not helping you achieving that dream you should eliminate i think that was a very good advice but you know i think when it my advice for young people starting the business right now is dream big have a focus because sometimes you know oh i i can do everything well yes but when you focus on something just one thing it's just easier you know to get somewhere because just doing one thing.

1:15:31Anselmo Ramos:I'm not doing 10 different things. The other thing I feel is, and I feel that with my daughters and, you know, and their friends, I'll try to find, especially in the creative industry, you know, I'll try to find a balance between consuming and creating because we consume so much and so easy and it's amazing the amount of you know memes and videos and TV shows and films it's so easy so you're always consuming but if you don't stop and create you're not creating value for your life so I think you need to find in a very conscious way if you're young yeah like a balance between consuming and creating.

1:16:22Anselmo Ramos:I'm gonna consume this in a very conscious way because I think there's value here, I'm learning. But I'm gonna set aside time to create, to write a script, to write a movie, to shoot something. I think that's very important. And the other thing that, you know, I was talking to that, I was talking about that with Gaston yesterday at this very same table because we had a founder's retreat yesterday at this table in Miami. I think, and maybe because of social media, I feel that a lot of young talent lacks self-esteem. And I think they should believe in themselves. Just have more self-esteem in what you do and in what you're writing, your drawing, your writing, your photo, your film.

1:17:13Anselmo Ramos:Just have a little more confidence. You know, don't allow social media to undermine your self-esteem. You know, just be yourself. There's no one else like you, right? So be yourself. Express that in whatever form you want. Have a little more self-esteem. Don't allow, you know, social media to undermine that because we need more self-esteem in the creative industry. We really do. We really do. Amen to that. The only thing I was going to add, actually, is you were talking. I was thinking what would I say to that is don't wait. Because as a, so I started my business full time, age of 51. Yeah. Imagine if I'd done it at the age of 31, you know what I mean?

1:17:58And I've waited too long for the perfect circumstances to come around. And you learn by taking the jump.

1:18:05Anselmo Ramos:I agree. Back to your self-esteem point, even though you don't feel ready, when you take the jump, you become ready. And you learn so much more by taking the jump. I agree so much quicker couldn't agree more do not wait I took too long I started David when I was 42 I started God when I was 47 it's been amazing cannot complain but start earlier yeah you are never ready yeah no one is ever ready there's no perfect condition never it's always I'm perfect condition like forever and there's no perfect timing so if there's no perfect timing and if there's always a imperfect condition do we now start now don't wait too long it's never going to be perfect there there's always something to fix by the way you have to embrace that right if you're going to start somebody you have to learn how to love problems because you're always fixing things there's always something broken or that needs to needs your attention and that's part of having a business that's part of you know creating something so and it's beautiful love it and selma mate thank you so much thanks john it's been such a blast to catch up again hopefully won't leave it quite as long next time for the next installment but uh congratulations on the continued success of guts thank you so much and everything you're doing and thanks for showing us what's possible thank you appreciate it thanks for having me again for the second time and congrats on everything.

1:19:38Anselmo Ramos:Thanks, man. Appreciate it.

1:20:07Every week we pick one topic, spend 20 minutes trying to fix it. So check out that. It's in your feed, Uncensored Renegades. And finally, I want to give a huge thank you to my sponsor, System 1. They generously provide so much support for this podcast. It would not happen without them. So big thanks and lots of love to System 1. I'll see you next time.

1:20:29Where did you get your black t-shirts from?

1:20:31Anselmo Ramos:Oh, you want the brand? Buck Mason. You're Buck Mason. What about you, John? Rhys. Interesting. Have you got a Rhys t-shirt? No. I should send you one because I know that's a British brand. I don't know this one. We'll compare. Let's compare. Brands of black teas. That's the next step of the black tea discussion. Today we're going to compare brands of black teas.