Charlie Adam | Taking Blackpool To Court

36:08Well, no because I was at one of the big clubs Yeah So I experienced like the big club mentality I'd played in the Champions League I'd played for the national team so I didn't see the big thing about in England and then I realised when I came here I was thinking wow it's you know honestly in my career I never ever wanted to go back never never I had one opportunity to go one opportunity I thought I had the right chance to go back to Rangers at the time with Steve Eben's manager and I was desperate for it it just didn't happen but eventually you go back for reasons to go back and play for your boyhood club which was a dream and I managed to do that you know but when I come to England it was like to realise what was here and to see so many different clubs and opportunities were incredible you know had you been looked after sorry had you been looked after at Rangers contract wise you know we talk about it loads but coming through the ranks yeah they never really get what they deserve erm oh yeah no I had a good yeah I had a good contract I went so my first steel when I was 16.

37:15So I was moving away from home and everybody, I think at that time we're on like£72.50 and I got£150 a week and I was like rich. Do you know what I mean? I felt like, because I was getting more than everybody else and I was getting digs paid for me. I actually stayed when I was growing. I was very lucky that at that time I moved into a house with Davy Moyes' mum and dad. So that was my digs landlord and lady, like landlord and I used to stay with them and I loved it and they looked after me and old Davey would do anything for me, he was honestly like another dad to me as a young player he did the need to in that but when I was going home at that period of time, he'd always say to me, what time are you getting trained back, I'll pick you up, so he'd drive from Bearsden at night, pick me up at 10 o 'clock at night making sure I didn't get the train home from Glasgow go out to Bears Den he'd pick me up drive me there he'd pick me up in the morning get me up in the morning take me to the training ground that's brilliant always on the end of the phone for me if I needed picking up because I couldn't drive at that time would do anything for me like and I see him like as a like a bit of a father figure as an older guy you know what I mean as an amazing person amazing family him and Joan were like the second mum and dad to me like growing up and eventually my first apartment I bought I bought off them do you know what I mean my first apartment I bought was off them in Bears Den and just amazing people and like I say now you can see working in and around that Moyes family why Davey's been so successful in terms of hard work his dedication to the game and yeah they were just massive influences on me they were a massive influence on me as a young player just how they looked after me as a young kid because that had a massive impact on your career as well when you talk about being homesick and everything you've got somebody really looking after you they've done everything for me like I was treated like another son to them do you know what I mean I wouldn't have said your pace was one of your your biggest strengths no until I saw a video of you running away from a John Park in Deepdale brilliant wasn't it it was the clash of the titans wasn't it I had to have a fucking shot look at myself was that the one when I scored no I think it might have been that game I think it was the same game no but do you know what that was the same game wasn't it I can't remember it was the one game you left it for dust and all that much I won the back foot I won the back foot when I set off me and you we weren't blessed with the best of builds were we it was our it was never going to break no fucking records no we weren't beating that mile run that that lad did recently what was it 3.22 or something like that me and you will not be beating that will we it's going to win car yeah but yeah no so I remember it yeah I actually remember like for me that was the goal that I think if you score a goal against a local rival I think that the big thing for the Blackpool fans and I remember that day like it was just a because my dad had 20 quid on me to score the first goal and to win 1-0 and that was like it's all in my mind now and that was like one of the biggest things ever like and we come back to Lytham I was living in Lytham at the time come back and we had a few beers after and it was just a brilliant day it was roasting hot and we beat Preston 1-0 and obviously to be able to run away for yourself and McKenna and people like that was probably not the biggest thing I remember the goal yeah is it a fair analogy do you think to say that that Blackpool team that you came into was at quite a few misfits in the I think we were a bunch of rejects really in terms of how the group come together we were all released we were all in different ways stages of our careers but what we were we were good players but we were good good people to each other do you know what I mean we looked after each other we had some good nights out together I remember like some of the bits, we'd come off an away game and that, and we'd just go straight out after a game and have a few pints.

41:10The amount of Sunday sessions we'd have, you know, watching the football on a Sunday with all the lads, 10, 12ers in the county in Lytham. Who's at the far front of that, building that team in Sunday clubs? Building the team, the social club. That would be myself, Evo, Cranes, Baps. Andy Reid was big of it when we were in Premier League. He used to bring guitar and that. We'd have a few pints, about two or three three hours of it and then Reedy would go right my missus is bringing a guitar and we'd all think fine bring a guitar I thought you were going to say the kids I've got to go home so she'd bring a guitar and we'd sit in the county and Reedy was a brilliant singer and he'd just sit on his guitar and we'd all sing like Oasis and different songs and all it was just brilliant and just real good camaraderie between us so there was always about 10 or 12 there was Dobbs and that we'd all go have a few pints watch the game and just a great team spirit but we had good players in that group and just come together on that real special season for the championship was unbelievable.

42:09Would Reedy's missus leave the guitar and get off? Oh no, she'd leave the guitar and go home and that. No, no, no. There'd be no women or that. All the lads would just come a few pints, leave the guitar and we'd just start singing. We'd be in the county like seven, eight o 'clock at night and then we'd be up training the next day, no problem. That would happen maybe once or twice a month. What's your favourite Ian Ollaway story? where do we start I think the best one for me was we'd played and you hear it we'd played Derby away in Boxing Day and they had like Robbie Savage and people like that and so I always felt it was a challenge when you see when you come up against people like Savage and people like that with good careers I always felt like this is my time I need to go and show these people I'm better than them and blah blah blah so that was my drive and my motivation when I come up against these players in the championship like if they had a wee bit of a good career I was like I need to be better than them if I want to get a move I need to be better than them so this one time we go there we trained on boxing day he said right we'll meet at the hotel pre-match blah blah blah and he just come in just goes right lads basically there's 11 teddy bears in there if your name's underneath you're starting if there are no the rest of these are all subs so we just go in this room so like we were sitting having pre-match we go in the next room and there was 11 teddy bears set out 4-3-3 formation and basically that you pick up your teddy bear pick up your name tag and that was you if you were playing you were playing if no the rest of the sub and that was his team talk we just went and played we won 2-0 like you say what the bigger teddies for bigger players are no no no they were all the same size so he's obviously you win at the fair Taylor Fletcher Park is up front you have to lift it up but no it was just yeah just things like that you're just at the box you know what I mean and then again some days we'd come in we used to train at FILE Rugby Club and there were some days we'd never really have a meeting after training we went right lads we're having a meeting at two o 'clock and lads like what's this so we'd go upstairs have a meeting telly's there and he'd come and he'd sit have you ever watched Coach Carter yeah fucking hell so long a film innit so we get off sat in there whole staff players and that get there switch the telly on Coach Carter lads watch this so we were thinking he's only watching it for ten minutes or whatever two hours later we watched the whole thing put the telly on put the telly off put the lights on he's crying his eyes out like so emotional and that's what he was he was so emotional so when we come into training we didn't know what you know he was coming in was it an emotional guy was it a a guy that was just going to come in and batter everything that was going on so any so like in a day we'd come in train maybe he's coming for half nine sometimes we wouldn't get training till like half twelve one o 'clock because he'd come in and go start having a meeting he'd go on and he'd have a sheet of paper up on the wall and he'd start drawing things and talking about like politics what was on the telly the night before was having a problem with his kids you know his kids are deaf and he was having a problem with the kids at school and he'd come in and talk to us about it and he'd just go on about random things but just go on a tangent with things and then go out on the grass and you'd think that nothing had happened just start coaching and we were talking about it all day I went in to see the lads all day in terms of the training ground at Blackpool it's the second time I've been back since I left in you know 12 years or whatever it's been how long it's been and probably I've been in twice now since the boys have gone in actually and the difference in there compared and we were talking about it all day like the difference that these lads have got now to what we had and it was just it was incredible but we were just talking about the first thing we talked about was the stories that we had as a group of players the people we had how we got on the games that we won the games that we lost but it was just a special time and it's a special it's a very very good football club do you think see that pissed me off by the way not starting to laugh I don't know if I'm just grumpy but I'd be like fuck it this is shit what am I doing but again that's what I'm saying is you win games and everybody accepts it when you start losing games everybody's like wow what's this gaffer now but he just stuck to it and it was just we were winning some games and to be fair we were going alright because we were favourites to get relegated actually but we were going alright in the season it wasn't as if we were in the playoffs for a lot of the season we ended up only in the playoffs the last couple of games of the season do you know what I mean so it was just how he got the best at us as people and as a group of players it was just really special to see and feel and yeah we were just different like it was just a different football club like we were talking about our day doing the bleep test one day right and this is how bad it was at the time there was a car at the side of the pitch cars at the side of the pitch what's this for he put the tape in and put the bleep test on and his motor switched the car on and turned it full blast so we can get the, you know, the beeps?

46:59Because we had no, like, stereo or nothing. Had to use his car at the side of the pitch for the beeps. See what he's on. Yeah. No, no, no. So, he's like, turned up full blast and I'm like, level 15. And that was coming at his car at the side of the pitch. If it was level 15, I would be sat in his car. Honestly, it was just, like, Blackpool, like, to get to the Premier League, the stoke, like, amazing how we managed to get there. Like, we'd, we'd come up on a Friday, right, and we'd get on the bus and we'd travel, let's say we were traveling to Plymouth and there'd be Mackey's or KFC on the bus.

47:30That was our like lunch and eating that and that. And that was just how we, that's how we were. We'd just accept it. We'd get to the hotel and the food was like, we complained once, right? On a away trip. The food was terrible. Past and chicken. And he kicked off like, you disrespectful, not good enough. Like, so the lads like, he kicked off saying, you're eating it, blah, blah, the food was he's kicking off at the players from moaning the chef no no kicking off at the players from moaning her and he was like you're disrespectful this is what we are this is what we've got don't think you're too good for you don't think you're big time and all that so so that same night the lads some of the lads hadn't eaten so lads were going out to bring pizzas and that bring Chris and all that back so this night I think it was Fletch Fletch and Brett were sharing or Fletch and Keith were sharing.

48:28No, it would have been, yeah, something like that anyway. And Fletch was like, he's not the healthiest to eat. So the room serviced up. So he got, I think it might have been a burger and chips and that and a pint of lager on a Friday night. This was just like one of the games that they'd had and all he'd seen it. And he took it up to the room and knocked on the door and went, enjoy lads on me played the game with them just went all right okay then enjoy it and you end up scoring you end up winning the game the next day and that just things like that but you imagine that it was a manager they'd be kicking off but that's just where it was like we were there was like three or four lads five lads in that group that were like really dedicated to the food and that looking after a cell would just go in the gym like the gym was it wasn't even a gym like the the weights were like rusty and all that just like terrible the gym the facilities were terrible right but we we got on with it but we had good players and um yeah it was just this like another example is the kit man was a taxi driver at the time walesy you know walesy was he impressed at time no no so walesy was like he was a taxi driver but he used to do the kit for us as well so we had to use washer own kit as well so what he did was because he would like doing taxiing so we'd have a game on a Saturday maybe he'd have a taxi a run to the airport on a Sunday morning so he'd say to a couple of people by the way just need to nip into the stadium on the way to the airport and that so he'd pick them up say he'd pick them up in like Clevelies and take them to Manchester Airport he'd come in put the washing in for the lads in terms of the kit wash their kit jump in the room and then take them to the airport drive back and then bring the washing at the washing machine and that just the way it was kit was just it was just the way we were as a football club but to get promoted to that to get to the playoffs and to beat a team like Naughton Forest and then Cardiff was was just unbelievable it almost seems as though from an outsider that all helped you really yeah yeah we were just against everybody was against us we just felt we made it as if like it was it was them against us and that was our mentality and we played some good bits on the way we'd you know good players at the time you're at Cranes you had Evo Rob Edwards played a little bit Big Ben Burgess Played at the top end of the pitch DJ Campbell Fardy Gary Taylor Fletcher Just all contributed into the team Jell-O in goals Just a team that was real quality But again Just a good team spirit And again I talk about it all the time If you've got a good team spirit It gives you a real good chance And when you look back In terms of how these players Are looked after now You know You think Can you imagine if we actually had I look let's say go back a couple of weeks I was there to training two immaculate pitches new gym facilities are good they're trying to build it I'm thinking imagine we had this it was just irrigation system and that for water and that we never had any of that do you think that would have worked?

51:34no possibly not possibly not I think that is what it was and that I say we had we had a milkman as a groundsman and you know and that's what saying took your edges to cut the lawn Just holes in the pitch We had just one hose And that was just the way it was And it was just Yeah, it was just different But we got on with it And it was key to what we were trying to do I mean, even that play-off final Just summed you up, didn't it? Yeah In a nutshell You scored two, we'll score three Yeah, and that was just the way we played If we conceded two goals We'll score three Just because of the players that we had And to be fair We got Nottingham Forest And the other team It was Leicester and Cardiff In the semi-final And to be fair We didn't even want Leicester because they had a good side at that time.

52:19They had Knockhart, they had Kermi Oglu was at the midfielder, they had Kasper Schmeichel in goals, Wes Morgan at the back. They had good players and we felt they were probably the strongest team in it all. And we got Nottingham Forest and we'd beat Nottingham Forest in the season, 1-0 at the city ground early in the season. And there was always a wee bit of rivalry between us and it was quite a needly match. Did you go off in the tunnel? Yeah, I went off in the tunnel on the second leg. But in the first leg, they went 1-0 up. Chris Cohn scored a brilliant goal. And I scored a penalty and then Keith scored a scluffy goal that City was celebrating as if it was like World Cup.

52:56But it was brilliant. So we took a 2-1 lead there. And we enjoyed it. And I could see Billy, you know, Billy Davis. You're an angry man, isn't he? And he was giving it to us on the way down the tunnel on the first leg saying, we'll get you back to the city ground and we'll batter you there and that. And we were like, yeah, yeah, no problem. So what happened is, we got we got to the city ground and they tried to play a few mind games and that we'd come to the tunnel early but the referee blues whistled a couple times Mark Clattenburg and I said to Mark we need to get them out and they started playing and they opened the door and they were just waiting on us trying to play the mind games and that and then closed the door again and I said Mark I'm not having it so I went and banged on the door so I battered the door says get out of here come on nothing to be afraid of like we'll beat you anyway don't worry about it and out walks where's Morgan I'm like reverse maybe not the best thing but we banged the door come on let's go and then it just become a little bit needly do you know what I mean and they scored early and to be fair like you say they scored early and we just come back and we got into the game and we battered them on the night we deserved it and we like again we enjoyed it come back went to the local casino and the lads had like two or three days on it and I had a few beers so we went to the casino until about six in the morning a few of the lads come back and there's a few of the lads walking back at like nine o 'clock in the morning through Lhythm with the tracksuits on just straight into the pub just for two or three days after the semi-final just got on it enjoyed it because we didn't know got to play a final you never know what would happen and then obviously we'd seen the night before that Cardiff had beat Leicester obviously tried that chip did he missed the penalty and that and we knew that if we'd got Cardiff we'd played really well against them in the two games in the league and we knew that if we got Cardiff there would be a right chance we didn't really want to play Leicester and we obviously beat Forest played Cardiff and that was it and then yeah that was the game and we travelled into Wembley and trained before the game and at that time Peter Wickham you know again was he was probably one of the best players in the championship at that time scoring goals for fun free kicks and unbelievable player and I'd scored a couple of free kicks that season but I had a lot but some of them were terrible and we were training and in the last sort of time we were doing a little bit of set plays and we were hitting free kicks at the end and Ollie just sort of teased me a little bit and he went Peter Whittingham, he's probably the best free kick take in the league and I was like this was inside the pitch just before and I just said, and basically it was like identical to where I was the next day and I says, don't worry about Peter Whittingham Peter Whittingham can I do this and I've just bent this thing in the top corner my last kick of the training I just walked off walked on the bus boots on walked off got on the bus and then honestly identically next day same free kick I put it in the top corner similar to what I'd scored the day before and I was like one of these guys I was a visioner a guy that would think or see things before games and I was I was always visualising things before a game thinking if this happened what would I do and blah blah and ultimately that happened the day before and then ultimately on the day it happened again and it was just an incredible feeling to see us win that to go up and then realise that we were on 5 million quid bonus to get promoted double your wages and it was like we'd won the lottery like because during that season we were going well and we were winning games and we were close enough to play us but no close enough and boys were like that because what's always spoke about was the five million bonus and lads were going we're buying Ferraris we're going to buy Bentleys and all that like because it was big money at the time to us like some of the lads I think end up getting like 400 grand in bonuses for getting promoted it was massive money and it was just an unbelievable unbelievable day for the club and then to come back here and see the supporters were amazing and then you're thinking right hopefully this changes but it actually got worse when we got in the Premier League in terms of still washing our own kit fighting for bonuses and we got no bonuses during the season we beat Liverpool twice at Anfield got no bonuses we only got a bonus to stay up in the Premier League another 5 million so it was just like and then ultimately for the bonuses we had to fight for the bonus at the end of the season you were Falkle Point as a representative of the players yeah because during that season of the championship season I had to close my contract where if we'd if we'd stayed up if we'd gained if we stayed up in that season on the next available payday I was due£25 ,000 that was my bonus for staying up and I was due a bonus for getting promoted as well so I was my share of playing the games was part of that£5 million so we got safe about April time so I went to the owner and I said listen you owe me that bonus he went He said, you're not paying it.

58:02So I left it and just sort of left it a little bit. And obviously by that time, we got promoted. So he used that and he said, you're not getting that bonus. You got promoted. You never stayed up. I says, but if you look at the clause in the contract, it says he will be paid£25 ,000 on the day of survival and paid in the next available payday, which was the next month. Never paid me it. so all of a sudden there was four or five had the same sort of clause and I said I'm having him I'm taking him to court here so I got lawyers I got a lawyer I got a barrister everything and I fought him fought him fought him fought him for it and then so at the end of the trial and I had to go to a hearing in court and basically it was like me, my agent the barrister, lawyer Matt Williams Carol Oyster in a room in the FA in London and I'm fighting against them for the bonus and he was like adamant he wasn't paying me so I'd looked at different clauses and that thinking right well what do I want so I said well for me that we looked at it and think well that's a breach of contract so if you breach your contract then you can leave on a free and I had to close my contract so if any of the top four clubs in the Premier League or any top four clubs in Premier League in England wanted to buy me it was, this was it I can go so this is a story for later on so I obviously had that bonus payment never got it sued him I won the court case cost me 35 grand the lawyer's visa so it actually cost me 10 grand but it was it's a win but it was the principle it was the principle that I had to fight for it would you see him around the ground like much days all the time frosty no not frosty no just that was the way they are and that's the way it was but at that time they'd done browning for the club in terms of the way they made they kept the club a little float put a lot of money into it fancied a problem which is fine but ultimately supporting the players but yeah it became a bit of a problem in terms of that because it was just his way of trying to go well we've got more money than you so we're going to go and I could just sort of bully you into it and I was like no no I'm going all the way with him so the gaffer was raging at the time I'd done it with you?

1:00:18yeah with me yeah it's like nah I wasn't happy I thought he'd be raging at the Oysters nah the lads haven't got their head on the game so I'd gone to the we were in the Premier League at this time, so it'd gone. We'd got promoted and that, and then we had to haggle for the five million. What, that you already agreed? Ah, yeah, that was another issue. He wanted, ah, we can't pay you to August and blah, blah, blah, because we don't get the money from the Premier League till August. And it'd become a problem, like the lads were fighting and that, and then there was different ways, ah, this and that.

1:00:49So we knew it was just, it was a hard way and that, and I was thinking, this is going to get messy again here. So anyway, I'd sued them got there and we'd play in a game and it was in the hotel I got told my agent phoned me about 6 o 'clock one night on a Friday night said by the way you've won this case so I've gone in everybody's having dinner and I was like I was singing show me the money like and the lads are like cheering and he Ollie was raging like said disrespectful to the group to this club to the players and I said well why he forced me to sue him for the money like you know that's wrong nah you're wrong you shouldn't have done it and I said whatever anyway so we won so it petered out a little bit but obviously then we had problems in terms of getting the big bonus and it wasn't until August and then all of a sudden one day he'd come in just gave us a cheque the lads had cheques for like 300-400 grand and I was straight to the bank thinking first one in thinking is this going to burn yeah but to be fair we got our money in that but and then we negotiated the Premier League it was just like so difficult he was like nah we're not getting any bonuses during the season we're playing against like Man United Liverpool and that and we were thinking if we beat any of these mate we surely would do a bonus like it's 5 million to stay up and that was it but we obviously got doubled our wages and he felt that that was a bonus and that so it was like alright okay and just imagine it like Wacky Races all these Blackpool players pulling up outside bank with a chip chipping people up all the way so the managers like that to us at the time don't want you buying flash cars don't want you buying cars and that big man Ollie turns up Bentley he drives body seller Bentley and that you know like for getting promoted to the Premier League do you know what I kind of get his attitude the season before with the shit gym and washing their own training kit like us against the world type of thing but the next season surely he's got to be going to the ball and going these lads are getting us promoted and take your side and go that's fucking out of order but again you don't like you think ultimately you know he's got a promoter he's got them 100 million and he's done the best thing ever for that football club you don't know what conversations are like with the ownership you know what I mean just got into the Premier League and yeah again nothing changed for us we were still washing our own kit went to Devon for a pre-season trip and that was another monster terrible pre-season trip we went to Devon right and we were just bringing in trialists and that and we were in the hotels and this summed us up we were in two separate hotels so half the players were in one hotel half the players were in another we played a game and this guy just turned up with his boots and that it was only the waiter from the hotel all he said he said to the gaffer on a night or something played a few games and that do you mind if I come down and I was like yeah in you come try a listen to that a waiter from the hotel so he's training that's what we were at and it was just it was just a shambles like the tough of the tough but we got on with it like it was never and I remember playing Aki in a pre-season friendly and that and it was just the pitch was terrible and that I was thinking how are we actually going to survive this with the players that we obviously got promoted in that and then to be fair to them at the back end of the window we just signed loads of players of the last week and Marlon Airwood beat brought different players in and to be fair to the lads they've done brown for us we beat Wigan on the first day of the season 4-0 and then that was probably the worst thing that could have happened because come 5 o 'clock we were top of the league 4-0 up what did we do?

1:04:19Straight out in Leather wouldn't we? we thought we were top Premier League players and then the reality kicked in we got to beat 6-0 for Arsenal the following week but just an amazing time an amazing football club that you know is really close to me and like I say hopefully now they can get on a journey where they can be successful because it's had some tough times over the years and they've got an ownership now that looks to want to invest in it and you know they've got good people at the helm in terms of the Cranes and Evo and Dobbs and Tomo who hopefully they can do well this year because it's been a tough couple of years for the club in terms of where they've been.

1:04:57Just seeing there, you got relegated with 39 points. Yeah. So I know you said it took a nose dive pretty quickly, but you did well. Yeah, we've done really well in the Premier League. I think we got 27 or 28 points by Christmas. Yeah, I remember thinking, they've actually fucked us up here. Yeah. So we, massively. I think that was the highest ever, I think 39 points for a long, long time was the highest relegation number in the Premier League. And yeah, it was tough, but there were loads of factors in terms of that. That was the season that I nearly went to Liverpool in that Christmas time as well.

1:05:33Jan? Yeah. Was there other clubs in, Jan, as well? I had Tottenham late. So at the time, I obviously started the season really well. and then so at that November time I knew Liverpool were interested and I was like it was massive to go to Liverpool it was like Kenny was the manager I think Kenny just no Roy Hodgson was the manager and he got sacked and Kenny's first game was against Blackpool and we beat them that night at Bloomfield Road and they had Torres people like that so after that time in that November to January time I knew that Liverpool were interested I was desperate to make it happen and again that January I made a big fuss to try and make it happen about the Oysters so I had that clause in my contract where one of the top four clubs in the country could come and take me for you know I could speak to them and at that time when the clause was there at that time in January Liverpool were fifth in the league and the Oysters said to me you can't go to Liverpool I said why they're fifth in the league they're not in the top four but we all think as a top four club it's Liverpool you know United at the time Chelsea like Arsenal they're the big four and now it's now it's the details in the contract now it's the details in the contract yeah but they're fifth in the league you said top four you know big four they're no fourth in the league they're fifth and what was the fee I think it was I think it was five or six million I mean we all do respect like from Blackpool to West Ham would be an incredible move wouldn't it yeah do you know somebody at that level you know like well probably Stoke could have been an incredible move absolutely and that was like saying is like I was I was going from like four or five times my money life changing financially for me and family and it was life changing for us like massive so I was I was I kicked off I like went to see him and he went no you're not having it so I just the last day of the window I said because it was trying to go he was like making bids no you're the kind of goal we're not going to let you go if I lose you it's going to cost me 100 million so why would I want to accept 6 million you've still got an odd year and you're contracted at the end of the season so I could sell you at the end of the season so it was because become a bit of counter so the last day of the window I got to the training ground started training I just said to Gaffer Gaffer I walked off pitch I said to my agent meet me at the stadium so I went to the stadium banged on his door went in his office I said I am not leaving until you sell me to Liverpool sat in his office from about 20 past half past 11 one morning to about 8 or 9 o 'clock at night upstairs just being a piss saying I'm leaving I want to leave I want to leave no you're not going I'm not going to let you go is he in the office?

1:08:33he's in his office downstairs and my agent was upstairs with me and him Matt Williams were in the office the manager were all there and I was saying like let me go and I was like no I've heard enough money blah blah blah so I said right fine that's a long time yeah it was a long time you need to order some food yeah I had a few I was bored mate but I still had my training gear on so I'd sat there with my training gear all day with my agent so this time there was a few clubs come in got a call from an Italian agent saying AC Milan would you be interested in going to AC Milan and I was like this is like AC Milan of course I would but then so So I gave up the ghost at the last minute.

1:09:13So probably about, this was about nine o 'clock, I went, this is not happening. So I left, went home, and I got a message from Jamie Redknapp saying, my dad wants to talk to you, Harry Redknapp. Where at Tottenham? Tottenham were in Premier League at this time. They had been in the top four. Right, so they meet the criteria. Might have been, yeah. But they were going to pay a fee, whatever it was, but there was complications in that. so they'd said to me they'd already spoke to Blackpool so I got in the car went back to the back to the the McDonald's car park just next to the stadium I didn't actually go back to the stadium went back to the McDonald's car park to wait for Harry Redknapp to tell me to go so I goes back into the stadium say talking to me the bid and I used to went no they've known and I was like well this is not happening so I was like got a tail between my legs back home so the next two days later on the next day we're playing we were playing Sunday West Brom we were actually playing West Brom at the stadium live on Sky and so the deals both deals are off nothing happens sleep on it got a game scored a penalty the next day and yeah just kept playing and to be fair scored a lot of goals for that back end of the season really and we never just never performed we had a few injuries we lost a goalkeeper Jillo was massive for us in terms of how he started the season for it's done really well and we got a goalkeeper.

1:10:39We brought a goalkeeper in from Ghana and Richard Kingston and yeah, threw a couple of goals in with Denny. So he was having a problem like in Ghana with his ex-wife or something like that and she put a curse on him supposedly like from a witch doctor or something like that. The bastards are there. It would have been him getting sent to Blackpool. Yeah, yeah. So she said she'd put a curse on him and that and all that was happening. so I think there was a time we had an opportunity to rumours are we had an opportunity to sign Shea Given on loan for the goalkeeper and I was thinking that could save us getting Shea on loan from Man City I think it was on big money but we couldn't afford it so we didn't do it back end of the season we lost so many games Is he resorting to the cuss?

1:11:24You know like when you're like oh come on man the cuss lads it's the cuss what am I supposed to do the split-ass in Gareth has put me up Some of the goals we lost were poor but we got beat most some games and that it was difficult but we beat Liverpool home and away which was massive for us I think we were 2-1 up against Man United at half time and then they brought Giggs and Berbatov and Hernandez on and they won 3-2 and it was just yeah they were the moments that you think playing against these best players were unbelievable you know A quick break gents from one of our favourites The creme de la creme of VPN services.

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1:14:46Was there never a sensible conversation with the Oystens where he could actually, like you'd sit down and he'd say, listen, Charlie, just give us the end of the season and we'll let you go. I'm not sure sensible and the Oystens go together. No. Nah. If Blackpool has stayed up? No, I was always, I was going to Liverpool. But they could have, you had another year on your contract. I still had another year on my contract, yeah. but yeah they probably just gone in from all summer yeah I'm just sitting there I'm going I'm going I'm going I'm going I'm going I'm going I'm going I'm going I'm going I'm going I'm going I'm going yeah relegation probably was on a personal probably was was a good thing because then they're thinking right need to sell you yeah I got 6-7 million and then I think they add on so it was about 8 or 9 million in the end but it was nah listen I want Blackpool to stay up for the lads for myself you know it was it would have been something special if we'd stayed up it would have been something special because then ultimately you never know where the club would have been now do you know what I mean they've had so many great days now from that but they've had a lot of tough days so anyway that season we got relegated I went away in the summer and then come back it was obviously during that summer I knew that there was negotiations happening and there was one meeting that was needed to happen that happened at Preston Marriott between Damien Camoli, I think it was club secretary, Matt Williams and Carl Oyston.

1:16:18And I knew that was happening at a certain time. And basically, Carl said to Liverpool, we'll come to this meeting. If you don't agree a fee, what we want, then the deal's off. So I knew what was going on. I was like, but the fair play at Liverpool, I always kept in contact between that January and the summer saying, we want you, blah, blah. Sorry, is Liverpool number one choice for you? Because obviously we've had talks of SC Milan, Yeah, no, Liverpool was, you know, I was... Above and beyond. Kenny was the manager. They had a host of top players, you know what I mean? So that was my number one choice.

1:16:51And that deal, obviously they got the deal done and got the phone call and I was going to Liverpool, which was an amazing achievement. Might be a daft question, but the Liverpool move, a dream move. Yeah. Was there any bit of you at any point that missed the rusty weights, missed the 10 pints in the county, missed the no real pressure of playing with great lads in a great dressing room. I missed the lads daily. These were like, we were like brothers, the way we had a good time and that. No, I was going in like, mate. First trip was going to Asia on a tour, mate. this big private jet we had everything it was a death question fuck you fuck you Brett we got everything at Liverpool but it took me six weeks to feel comfortable in the environment like I was feel like a place we're the players yeah so it was like I was sat here it was me Bellamy to one side Carragher to the other and I was in the middle between the two of them Stevie was over there Dirk Coy Glenn Johnson Pepe Reiner just won the World Cup Euros top players Dan Agher Martin Skirtle they all played in the Premier League I'd played against them Luis Suarez he just sat there and I was like a bit overawed for me in terms of going into that dressing room but it took me easily six weeks to feel really comfortable and then start playing and going into that environment but I only had a year there but you know you could see how these boys were elite the mentality standards and training how they looked after us I was just was just top of the level.

1:18:38The problem with that is normally the first time you get to know lads is on a night art innit. I presume you didn't have a night art in Asia or did you? Oh we had a night art in Asia yeah. But first you're like fuck it go get pissed be your normal self and then for the next day or two it's like good lad him. Yeah. You know what I mean? No they are doing that that's one thing that Stevie was good at Stevie was very good at organising like dinners and that for the lads and the girlfriends and wives and you know we go different restaurants every now and then Stevie just couldn't go out with the lads so you'd have to go to a restaurant book it out but he was very good at that to bring all the lads and everybody together to go there and you know really down to earth guys you know what I mean his career speaks for himself but just the human side just them all do you know what I mean being around them was really good but yeah again these lads the younger ones myself Andy who else would be there Kelly John Flanagan the lads would go to have a night out in Liverpool on a Saturday night but it was very rare but it was still a good time we were good lads you talked about facilities and private jets and everything yeah is there any truth you turned up to sign in a transit van oh yeah so so that time I never I never drove so I never passed my test until I was like I'd been 24 25 just so everybody had everybody done everything for Masters and my missus would drive me everywhere so this time my missus and I knew that obviously that meeting was happening I was at home my missus had gone she was at Trafford Centre she was in Manchester or something and I wasn't driving so I knew the meeting I got a call from my agent saying oh Liverpool want you to go there now for a medical blah blah so I was like suit on sure blah blah phoned one of my mates who was a builder at the time yeah and he was on a building site and I phoned him up said mate you're not going to believe it I says, great of fee, I need you to take me to Liverpool.

1:20:37He says, mate, I'm in my work van. I said, mate, that's good enough for me. So he turns up in my house and this white van, right, with his boots on, shorts on, he's like, where am I going? I says, we're going to, to, to the training ground, Kirby, to the training ground for the, to the academy. So we drive there in the white van and that. So he gets into the training ground and I jump out the van and I say to my mate, I'll see you later, right? So he gets out, bro, so he drives off and that. next minute Kenny drops in with this beautiful Mercedes and that and luckily you've never seen it dust on your ass I'm standing there, I've got suit on, shirt on that ready to go, ready for the medical and that and he, obviously I'd met him before but I was quite nervous to see him again because before I was so he showed me around the training ground at the academy and that and wasn't like where it was now in terms of the axe at the top end so we were at Melwood at the time so he took me there, showed me around, met me a few staff Then I went to a hospital to have the medical and different things like that.

1:21:36Because I'd done the medical, it was like six hours in these scanning machines. It was forever, right? So I get to the medical, done it, and said, there's a problem with your knee. I went, oh, no. But obviously my playing history in the last two years, I'd played 70 or 80 games or something, so it was fine. No problem. They were a wee bit worried. Seeing it on the scan, they were a bit worried. I said, my agent, this could be off here. I was panicking this was late 12 o 'clock at night the surgeon came in and went nah you'll be fine you'll be alright if there's any problems at least we know it's there but his playing over the last couple of years has shown that he's played enough games this will not affect him and so I was like buzzing and then signs the paper in the office and that yeah and it was a Liverpool player it was just really surreal do you know what I mean but yeah got the deal done signed and then like you say myself Jordan Henderson Stuart Downing sort of signed in the same similar week it was good So when you've signed and you've gone home back to either home or the hotel one month where you're just like fucking hell what's just happened?

1:22:43Yeah I got home and cried like emotional from my mum and dad to say like done like that was the moment you know what I mean it was like I'd worked I'd worked so hard but I'd been able to relive that I'm going back to one of the big clubs in the world here and by the way I think what helped me was that I'd been at Rangers so I knew that it was a big club but to then realise and it's not until now you're away from it in terms of how they look after former players now is realising how special that football club is you know I was there for a year played nearly I think I played 38 40 nearly 40 games I was very lucky I was one of a certain amount of players that's managed to pull that jersey on and again everybody talks about Liverpool being historic European trophies and that history and that connection in that club is just really special and the people there are amazing you know and these great players that you see and you hear about it was a real special time to actually be there and going like I said we played we'd done a training session in Asia and there was 80 ,000 fans there at a training session and it was just massive like just incredible to be there do you know what I mean and there's no about the private jets and that but like to be flown around the world you know an elite player at the elite level that top level of the Premier League was special and again like you say the pressure coming up against City at that time Chelsea you know I remember we beat Chelsea at Stamford Bridge and stuff like that it was just against United the rivalry between they two was incredible you know What was your favourite game in Liverpoolshire?

1:24:25Favourite game in Liverpoolshire winning the Carabao Cup against Cardiff at Wembley was special even though I missed the penalty I think scoring my first goal against Bolton at Anfield in front of the Kop right foot was really special and again it's like they're the moments that you remember like before the game they were singing You'll Never Walk Alone I could see my mum and dad and my dad was like fully gone in tears before the game and that's when I knew that something like that was big for me do you know what I mean because I always looked up to my dad like my dad was like whatever my dad said that was for me was the big thing and when I lost him that was like fuck it that was the biggest dagger in my life like that never it killed me for a couple of years in terms of that and it took me a while to get over it but he to see him crying fully crying like at Anfield to make my debut there and to score in front of the cup was they are the things that you remember in your career that yeah winning trophies now but the small family things were the big thing for me you know was there anything when you signed to Liverpool do you ever think tell you what I'm going to fucking treat me centre that and you treat your centre away or you've worked all that way to get there and you think fuck it I'm going to buy myself that yeah I bought a nice car nice watch but that was it really and again it was like and that's the thing is like you go you're going out I wasn't driving eventually I passed my test and I bought myself a Range Rover and then you go in and you see lads in Ferrari he's not and you think and it's normal it's normal at most clubs you go well I might get myself another car and end up having two cars and do you really actually need it probably no but you go with what the other boys are so I bought myself a Bentley as well but I treated myself like and that was the best I don't think there's anything wrong with that by the way no no no it's not a bad first car is it you have to you have to treat yourself but like yeah the big things like I went from probably top shop to Prada and things like that.

1:26:31Do you know what I mean? You put your different clothes on. My gear was horrendous. I look back at some of the photos. I think some of the things I bought. You was going shopping with Brett? Oh yeah, to be fair. But yeah, some of the things I bought, baggy jeans and that. But you treat yourself, don't you? You think it's an award and opportunity to look after things and look after people, mum and dad, and buy them a house and stuff like that. That was important for me. but yeah you try and keep up with the Joneses and that's I think that's normal in fitball do you know what I mean I think yeah when I bought my Bentley I was like really proud of it like I enjoyed it I loved it man

1:27:08Quick break gents because I've got a bit of a confession one I've actually been using I'll say it a bit of Claude AI to help us out with the notes for the episodes a little bit see I don't think it is a confession I don't mind you getting better at your job. I've improved. The stats and that. I'm glad you said that because I've got a few extra stats from Claude himself. I sent him your dinner, John. Have you got them there? Chris Bowne's last professional goal came in April 2014. He has watched change since that time. Pint of milk costs 46p. It's now 90p to a pound. England have had four managers.

1:27:49Watford have had 20 managers. Probably more by the time this goes there. petrol was 129.7 a litre and the UK has consumed between 90 and 100 billion pints. A lot has changed in that time. How old was you, Bellingham, at that time? Ten.

1:28:09No, it's been a game changer, hasn't it? Organising our emails, like the co-working side of things, sorting out the drafts, again, sorting out the notes and the stats, for each episode. I don't think there's a better AI system out there. Would you mind if I tell you a bit more about it? Go for it. I want to get this right, though. Claude is the AI for minds that don't stop at good enough. That's me. It's the collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and thinks with you. Whether you're debugging code at midnight or strategizing your next business move, Claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter.

1:28:49Well, for problems worth solving, get started at claude.ai.co. Your job has just got so much easier, hasn't it? Nationwide is so much more than a great insurance company. They're one of America's largest financial services companies. Just like I'm so much more than quarterback Peyton Manning. I'm also Peyton Manning. Insurance and financial services together? It's a masterpiece. Peyton Manning does it again. For your insurance and financial needs, Nationwide is on your side.

1:29:47Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18+. We spoke about Barry Ferguson before and the standards that he... Any examples of that happening at Liverpool with, I'm going to say, Gerard Carragher and obviously Bellamy's there. Any where they just thought, maybe to you or the other young lads, where this is kind of Liverpool. Yeah, no, no, it was just the daily, just the way they trained every day. Like, I don't know, like, Carragher and Suarez, mate, used to kick lumps at each other.

1:30:27Lumps at each other. The battles that they had was unbelievable, but it was for the best of each other. Brought the best of each other and that was the way Suarez was. South American, like, aggressive, passion. Carragher was the same, like, but it was just, Stevie would, yeah, if the standards weren't ready and that, they weren't like passing drills or different things they'd come down your Bellers was the same Bellers was like I remember one situation he had to go up one of the young lads and Cara pulled him up and said like you're over the top in that there and different things but that's what you have to do and that's the elite level like it's a different environment you have to try and drive these boys and these standards and I think it comes from the captain it comes from the leaders within the group but now these boys were driving the standards every day in terms of how they did but again having a laugh and a joke these boys would have a laugh and a joke I remember like Pepe and Dirk like going and picking people up and throwing them in the swimming pool and all that and having a laugh and a joke and part of that was the part of growing part of being there and that's the camaraderie within the group it was it was a good group good group of lads you know what I mean but training standards Liverpool and the expectations is that you need to win every game we had John Joe on and he spoke about the time he let like leaving the club and Henderson was getting spoke about leaving, going to Fulham, I think it was.

1:31:47But that was the same time I left. Yeah. I remember being a bit of a shock, you leaving. What was your story? So I had, when John Joe was there before me, so part of the deal when I went from Blackpool to Liverpool was John Joe and another lad come on loan to Blackpool. So John Joe come and played on loan in Blackpool in that championship season. He got relegated and then got to the playoff final against West Ham. So that was part of the deal. they got two loans as part of the deal and then I I went to America with the pre-season with Brendan Brendan Kenny had left Brendan had come in and I got married that summer and Brendan had come in and gone back for pre-season went to America and I was remember the Raheem Sterling comment I was there at the time that's when I was there and he flipped his lid but I was in the meeting when he'd done the envelopes about the three players about three players in here three people who let us in there this year I don't know if it was about a codology or if there was anything in it or what trained hard I was alright it was fine played against Hearts in the UEFA Cup come back in the second leg and I wasn't in the squad so went to see him and he went you can leave says the club need money so we're going to sell you in hindsight I probably should have said no do you know what I'm going to stay and see what happens probably never might never have played but you never know injuries or whatever I probably wouldn't have played and then January we were coming in probably I could have went and loaned somewhere else Stoke come in they paid I think they paid 4 million for me or something like that and I went to Stoke and it goes in the training ground and the first thing Penance said to me was what have you signed here for it's not what you want for a new player is it so it was like so then that was probably in my queue to go yeah maybe I've not made the right decision here and I signed there and it was probably one of the best decisions I've ever made because I ended up being there for seven years after the first year I loved the next four or five years of it and the back end was tough because the relegation and then different things happened during that but for that four or five years I had under Mark Hughes was the best time it was brilliant Was it tough under Pulis?

1:34:08It was it was good I started alright I remember again first game played at Wigan come on for 15 minutes on the train one day and then that was the so that tough time that was my tough time I lost my dad that Christmas of it and basically my dad committed suicide which was like what never ever people know my dad and it was this hardy guy big guy but really soft inside and you know quite an emotional person but that was a shock to me like suicide what so it was like just obviously that was a difficult time for us and then then that happened and then I missed one game against Tottenham because obviously funeral and blah blah come back this was December come January he pulled me in the office Tony and said this is no work out for us this is no work out for you you can leave and I was like what I phoned my agent I said they just told me I could leave and again I had four years left in my contract so I'd been through that emotional rollercoaster tough time family and all that and I was like I'm not going to leave but a few clubs wanted to take me on loan and that and I was like do I really want to move but my agent then looked at it and went by the way you cannae leave and I went why he says because you cannae play for three clubs in one season so I'd already played for Liverpool and Europa the UEFA Cup in the August before leaving and then I'd played for Stoke so then January I couldn't play for that third club so that stopped me leaving so basically I never played again until like March time April the back end of the season and we were near the bottom of the league I think we were about fourth or fifth in the Premier League bottom of the league near the bottom of the league got a chance of getting relegated here and he chucked me in against QPR away on the right wing and we won 2-0 and then we won a few games and I stayed up and then he left that summer and Mark come in and then it just sort of snowballed from there and then it changed and then I played a few games and for that three years we've done really well we finished top ten in the Premier League and it was a great time with the lads, good group of lads Mark Bowen, Eddie Nidzviki Damien Road and people like that it was a great time for us as a club but obviously again after that I think it was the third or fourth year we struggled, we started the season poorly, we got beat from Coventry in the FA Cup and he got sacked and then there was a bit of a decline in the club in terms of after that too many managers too quickly you know Do you think it was overlooked how well he did Hughes at Stoke?

1:36:47I think it just become the norm I think when you finish top ten for three years in a row I think it just becomes the norm expectation of where you are and where you should have been I think obviously the previous year before I went there I think did Stoke get into Europe under Tony They got to the FA Cup final They got to the FA Cup final didn't they and they got into Europe and again and it was difficult so yeah that three years top ten they had a tough time and then yeah they obviously made a change and it was going like that and we sort of went in a different direction we signed a lot of British players but then then we sort of branched it a little bit and we bought Arnautovic Shaqiri Bojan was that one?

1:37:26Bojan he was an unbelievable player unbelievable player and I just wish he never had done the injury he did he'd done his cruciate against Rochdale in a game one night and yeah it was a difficult time for him his career and because the things he was doing for us just was taking us to be fair Shaqiri and Arnautovic were the same they were taking us to another level but then we started to sign people like Hesse and Afalai and it just become there was a you know Mboula we signed for 18 million or something like that which just didn't get the dynamics of the football club and it became tough for us and unfortunately and in the end we ended up getting relegated which was a huge blow for the club because they're still there now which is a problem, you know.

1:38:11Did you ever forget the Charlie How's the Family from Tony? A lot of time. Yeah. It's actually like laughable, isn't it? So we, so we'd, so at that time Michael Owen came into the club so we ended up buying a horse and we called it How's the Family, huh? Yeah. So we bought a horse, How's the Family? off the back of Tony saying that to the players and that all the time Hells Bells Hells Bells yeah so we'd so we bought a horse and we called it after that and yeah it was yeah just there are the things you do when you're in the Premier League just daft things you do he certainly got his own way of doing things oh yeah it was difficult it was difficult in terms of how like how it was done but it was successful wasn't it you find a way of winning football matches and there's no right way and wrong way he was successful in the time he did it of course we all want to play the right way but he understood what Stolk was as a football club what it is as the people it was successful I just felt that it was I felt it was difficult in terms of the thing that I'd been through in terms of my personal life to then say a month later that you can leave was not what you expect from your manager but by the way I got great support from physios and people around the club as well so it was difficult but it was it was tough but he had a way of doing it and he was successful and he had a brilliant career in over a thousand games so who is it for us to criticise you know what I mean he's that's the way it is but no fair play to Tony he'd done brilliant for Stoke and all the jobs he's had Was there a bit of you in the early days where you just thought why the fuck did you sign us and what he wanted yeah yeah I think so I think it becomes yeah that's of course you think that and you know but again like you say he probably gone the other way and gone right well I've got Whelan Dean Whitehead I'm trying to think who else was in midfield at that time there was a couple of other lads he was trying to well these lads got me here and they were doing well for me and maybe I was on the performative level that he thought I was going to come or whatever or maybe maybe that's what it was so it was difficult but you know you go your own ways and obviously he left which probably for me was a good thing because if he'd never I probably would have had to leave that summer The thing is obviously you mentioned Whitehead and Whelan they're just really good simple players if you know what I mean If you're trying stuff that he's not telling you to do that's when the problems start Yeah but that's when the problems come do you know what I mean and like I say they had Matty Etherington on one side Johnny Walters people like that who'd done brownie for them to get them promoted you know Shawcross and Huth Begovic at the goal so real nuclear suspying the team which got them real success and maybe he had and he performed to what he expected or I wasn't doing what he wanted and he made that decision but I just felt that I probably could have dealt with that a little bit differently and that's the only regret really I had but no regrets to join the club because I had an amazing time there and great people and great football club and how to put his looks like how to put his dummy at he was a character but top player I think he should have played at one of the top clubs in terms of a United or a Liverpool.

1:41:32He had the character for that. He had the personality. Shaqiri obviously went and played for Liverpool and he had the talent and he scored some great goals and that. But Arnie was, he was, he was, he was as mad as a box of frogs like at times. He'd just turn up one day, he had this red Bentley and then it turned up, it was green. He just wrapped it, different colour. But just, he was a great lad, you know what I mean? He wasn't a bad lad. that was my perception of him I've never met him so that might have been the perception from the big dogs possibly but his talent and what he's shown and what he's okay he ended up playing for Milan and played at big clubs but I just felt could he really go and play at a Man United and play in the Premier League for a long time and he had that talent he had that quality but he was a great lad he was a good lad and he was top player you spoke earlier about your willingness to learn about just watching stuff and speaking to people.

1:42:31And I think it's an outstanding word, this. What, the parched crack? Yeah. How did you feel about it? Do you know what? It was one of these, right, for years. It's obviously been going on for years and I had no clue about it. No clue whatsoever. So to be fair to the lads, they'd kept it going. And I was one of these players that wanted to know why and how and what are we doing this for? How are we doing? What is this for? Tactics. I was always asking the manager coaches, like, why are we playing like this? Because I always thought about the game and I always tried to think about being a coach and a manager as well.

1:43:09So I was always thinking that. But ultimately, the lads come up with that when I was pre-season or during the season when it was roasting hot. And you know what? You don't actually realise it, but when you're speaking to a manager or whatever, everybody's still watching and observing what you're doing. And so, yeah, the name parts come round, but it was only when the podcast, Crouchy's podcast come out, and then it got mentioned. And I just got a message one night from somebody saying, are you parched? It's between Fibber's lap. Yeah, so I was like, what is this? So I watched a few episodes in that, and parched was everywhere.

1:43:46I was like, so I messaged Crouchy. I said, big fella, parched. What's this all about? He went, well, Chaz. And then he, so he messaged me back saying it, and I went, right, do you fancy doing the podcast to reveal it? I said, yeah, I'm up for a bit of fun and a laugh, you know what I mean? I'll take it on the chin and that. So that's where it come from, yeah. So it's not been mentioned on this podcast for a while, but yeah, a lot of people ask me about it. So they ask me, even now, the odd people have asked me about it, do you know what I mean? But yeah, no, it was just one of these things. See, we said busy bastard.

1:44:21Yeah, you would. That's what you would say. Fuck that busy bastard. Yeah, but I would be the same, man. I would be the same but actually until you're in that moment you're like what's he doing why would you keep talking to the manager and the coaches but I was just like trying to like if it was a passenger or a possession like what's the size and what would they and that's for our tacticals and all that did you watch it because I was real enjoyed the game and it was just always I was always thinking about coaching I always wanted to be a manager I always wanted to be a coach so yeah so I'm a part coach or manager it's a great word it's unbelievable how to come up with it isn't it the bad thing is if you didn't start a podcast you'd probably never find out never that it was never known about no because it was never like I never ever heard that during the training ground or anything like that it was never you know like here comes parts or whatever like yeah you'd think somebody had just like to each other so it's probably gone on for years it is worrying that what people might be saying about you though isn't it that you don't know no all your actions the problem is social media now you can't get away with anything in it at least it's all in the memory now and is that still the number one aspiration to be a number one yeah eventually I wanted to go back in as a manager yeah I had a coach I enjoy my role that I'm doing now in terms of I look at since I've retired four years four years ago I retired the experiences I've had in that four years have been you know some people don't get them in a lifetime do you know what I mean so when I retired I end up going back I went into Burnley company was the manager so again I learned from him and Beller seeing how they trained how they coached I left there to become a head coach at Fleetwood so I went on my standing on my own two feet to make the mistakes and that and that experience was amazing I think I got 50 games close to 50 games there different things in terms of injuries and problems that we had was a big factor in that and selling players I think we in a year I think I sold something like over a million pounds worth of transfers in terms of players in a year had to cut the budget we went in we were 12 points behind we finished the season three points got relegated gone into League 2 tried to rebuild the team and the group and then three or four of your big players get injured then it becomes difficult when you've got a smaller squad and results and performances were dictated by that as well so that was difficult but people say you're not managed until you've been sacked and you learn from that and you grow and how do you get better and then I I was out of work and Davey had obviously come out of West Ham at that time as well and I had a few chats with him over that time and then one day obviously I seen that he was going into Everton and then got a call saying that he would like me to go in with him and I went in the set play, coach did a bit of set plays but it was just the experience of gaining from him and Billy and Alan Irvin, Billy McKinley, Leighton Baines obviously was a legend of the club there, learning how they done it and understand what real pressure was.

1:47:22I never ever felt that, never ever seen David Moyes under pressure. Just how calm he was around the players, how he was with the players, how simplified he made it for the players. It's something that you take out and how they work and we could see why he's had the amount of games and the career he's had because of his way of dealing with people and players. I got the opportunity to go back into Burnley with Scott Parker who was there. So again, I was helping now with the coach 21s and the loans and different things. So again, that was, when I went into Fleetwood, I probably never had enough coaching experience.

1:47:59So I was never really ready for that coaching. I was happy to lead and organise and develop, but to be on the grass on that daily basis, I had 18 months of coaching. and it was probably, it wasn't enough really or a year I had, it wasn't enough in terms of going and really setting the team what was right and I've gained that experience by going into coach again back with the under-21s at Burnley now and I feel myself growing and developing and let's say the dream now hopefully one day is to go back as a head coach but I always think that every day is an opportunity to learn and grow and now we've got a new manager to develop and I learned a lot from Scott.

1:48:40Who have you taken the most from? Manager. The most? Maybe good and bad. Yeah. It's hard to people that you... There's people that I wouldn't take anything from that I've worked with in terms of the way they treat people and how they look after people. There's ways of, if you want to get rid of a player, putting them under 21s players and stuff like that. I had that moment once in my career that I didn't feel comfortable with. But people like Alex McLeish, who I look up to as a big mentor in terms of how he was, because he gave me my debut for Rangers, gave me my debut for Scotland. WaterSmith in terms of the standards and the professionalism, what it means to play for Rangers.

1:49:28Again, just the journeys in terms of how you play and how you want to develop, because coaching's about, for me, it's about learning all the time. So when I come out of the game, I looked at it and I thought right I went and I seen Vincent come to work and I thought that was the way that you need to work and then you see different ways and again you use your own experiences now that there's different ways to win football matches but as long as you have your core principles and ideas of what you want from it everything else around it is a jigsaw that you build as you grow and develop so I take a lot from every person that I've worked with and I've used possibly I'm the coach in the parts of coaching I was just thinking that for fuck's sake Charlie so I was a passer player but now I'm a passer coaching but yeah that's how that's how I feel but yeah no it's just it's just the longevity then what's next what's next exciting but what's next who's bringing the next bit everybody said Spain win the World Cup but it's amazing how they actually won the World Cup playing tiki-taki again and you know being able to not get bullied from the Argentinians and they found a way didn't they but yeah Fitbo sees it different and I see it totally different from other people but you have to be prepared and ready for the next opportunity Good luck mate Thank you I can't even say his name Alise Alise Michael Alise yeah Did you think he's not really bad this kid He was good He was good He needed a nudge and I said it recently on a podcast He needed a nudge in terms of Persona was like he knew he was a good player but he had if you actually look at his background in terms he was at City he was at Chelsea he was a young kid gone to Reading he was a talent but again young players need an opportunity and got the opportunity at Reading he was flitting in and out when I was there but he was still a young player and then got that moment to go and show and of course I didn't think he was going to go and play for France at a World Cup or hit the heights with Bayern Munich in the Champions League he did but fair play to him but that move from from Reading to Palace and then growing as a player at Palace to show in that team he did with Eze and people like that to then now, you know, being one of the best young talents in the world is phenomenal and it'll be interesting to see how he does now in terms of, you know, I think he's got a good manager to develop him and grow him in company in terms of the work he's done and, you know, he can, he might be one of the next Galacticos at Real Madrid, I don't know, but he's definitely got the X factor and, yeah, it was good to see him him do well unfortunately for him he disappointed in the last sort of game against England but you can see his talent that he's got now what he's showing you know well cheers mate top man thank you very much good luck can I drink no I'm good I'm alright I wouldn't mind a cup of tea but I'm alright thank you very much cheers pal thank you

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