Dean Saunders | Senegal Need The Diouf

11:45Jon Parkin:His voice started to get more and more angry and I kept trying flicks and tricks and I was giving it away. You know, you're drifting into one. I'm thinking the next one, I've just got to get hold of it and find an Aston Villa shirt. I laid it off halftime. We walk in at halftime. He said, Jim, is everyone in the dressing room? Jim Walker, the physio. He went, yes, gaffer. And he looks at me and he goes, see you. Get it in your thick head. You are no use to this football club playing with you back to goal. Why you insist on doing it? It's beyond me. It's beyond me. I went, I'm 27. Right, I've been at Liverpool.

12:25Jon Parkin:I'm not a kid. I thought, I'm not having that. You can't talk to me like I'm front. And he went, and by the way, just to make it worse, he went, and by the way, if any of you pass the ball to his feet, I'll bring you straight off. He's hopeless. Do not pass the ball to his feet. Put it in front of him. So I've gone at that, I'm not like you would. What do you sign me for then? I signed you to run towards their goalkeeper, not our goalkeeper. He goes, that's Jim. Get him out on the pitch. So we walk out. I'm nearly crying. I can't believe he's said that to me. I'm hopeless to my teammates don't pass to me so I'm walking out the tunnel Sean Teal and Paul McGrath the two centre backs and I went to him Tealy first time you get it just hit a diagonal over the top for me I'll step towards you and I'll spin just hit it over the top so we kicked off and it went Staunton McGrath Teal he never even looked just got it out of his feet diagonal I went towards the ball spun keeper come running off his line like an idiot lobbed him I scored from the kick-off and Ron Atkinson's on the pitch honest to God I went like this he's trying to claim the goal but he was right wasn't he he was right and he said and afterwards he's waiting for me I'm walking as I'm getting near the tunnel I can see him I'm thinking I'm not going to say anything to him out of order and we won out of order and he goes and as I'm walking he's going Dino Dino Dino You never know I'm your hero You are my hero You know I love you He puts his arm on me You know I love you Hey It worked didn't it It worked See See it worked So we get in the dressing room And he goes Lads He's gonna win us the league He's gonna win us the league And walks off And that's Full 360 I thought I still liked him After still It was funny You know what I mean It was like he's going to try and get around me and I'm not having it.

14:31Jon Parkin:It's like your mum and dad when they're trying to get around them. But he was right. And he said to me the next day, intelligent footballers avoid things they can't do. So I used to try and play. He used to listen to these managers, didn't he? I think it's 30 % coaching as a manager, 70 % man management, where things I say to you. like to convince you that what I'm saying is right and that you're a good player. I've got to make you think you're a good player and if you go off track, if you start running in behind down the channels, John, off you come. Don't know what it's going for. What are you doing that for?

15:15Jon Parkin:It's about ego then though. Idiot. I called you. What are you doing? If I wanted someone running down the channels, I'd put a whippet on. Ian Hume. Or Ryan Giggs. Do what you're good at.

15:27Dean Saunders:Yeah, I remember going back to when you were manager, we played crew in the Johnstons paint.

15:31Jon Parkin:Yeah.

15:32Dean Saunders:I think I must have scored in the last minute to equalise and he's gone over to the bench and went, if we're not careful, we're going to end up winning this.

15:38Jon Parkin:Do you want to get knocked out? Well, we were flying in League One one way. We were flying and I remember I said to the, what's the name of the kit woman? Oh, she's lovely. Tracy.

15:50Dean Saunders:Tracy.

15:51Jon Parkin:So I said to Tracy, listen, I'm going to play three kids in the crew. I said, we get red cards. the most important thing is we get out of League One. We're flying. I don't want any red cards. Injuries in this game. Johnson's paint. I started thinking, do I actually want that on my CV? Johnson's paint winner. I know I shouldn't say that, but I was thinking, Johnson's paint, like no one's going to, I'm not going to keep my job because I won the Johnson's paint. I'll keep my job if we win League One. So I said, get the three kids out of the youth team. I'll play them three. Anyway, when we got in the dressing room, number 40-odd, number 50-odd, number 60-odd, front three.

16:34Jon Parkin:And at the time, you could have a bet. I'm not saying I had a bet, right? I would get this clear before I went to the story. The spread betting, you could buy the shirt numbers of the goal scorers. So you could buy, you know, spread betting is, they'll say, right, the goals tonight, Doncaster will win 3-0 and Chris Brown will score two and John Parkin will score the other one. Chris Brown's number 10, John Parkin's number 9, 29. That's the spread, 29. You can go below it or above it. Now, I put a young youth team front three out, and I was thinking, the spread betting tonight, no one knows what the team is, only me and Tracy.

17:12Jon Parkin:She's put the numbers on the shirt. So you can't tell anybody or anything. And I thought, if ever it was a night where I'd never, ever done that, if ever it was a night where you can have a bet on the spread betting and no one knows it was that night but it went to pens didn't it and we we went on pens didn't we I think we did or did we lose on pens

17:33Dean Saunders:I can't remember but I remember it was Jordan Ball who we met at Mansfield I think we must have played Chesterfield in either round before or the round after and Ball he was on the bench never kicked a ball like in the first team but Dana put him on the bench and he must have come on after 70 minutes we had a corner he's come straight on first touch goal if he's like best manager of all

17:56Chris Brown:in Atkinson

17:58Jon Parkin:anyone number 68 I want fucking quits him I mean this as well management is 65 % luck it is you know Billy Sharp swivels on a volley in the last minute ball's bad cross behind him and Billy Sharp goes touch, move, volley bottom corner win 1-0 if he misses so there's a bit of luck injuries to your key players I think there's a lot of luck signed players like scored for everyone bar you you know like something's gone wrong anyway Jordan Ball's on the bench and their goalkeeper was getting treatment this is the true story their goalkeeper's getting treatment and Brian Carey comes up to me was it Rochdale or Chesterfield

18:41Dean Saunders:it was Chesterfield

18:42Jon Parkin:Chesterfield at home right worst game ever freezing cold and it was nil-nil we didn't look like scoring so Brian comes up to me he goes what are you thinking I said well we've got to do something haven't we we're at home and we've got to try and, let's try and, like, what can we do? He goes, well, we've got a striker on the bench. I said, who? He said, Jordan Ball. I said, which ones? I didn't even know. Right? He's out the youth team. He went, Jordan on the ender. And he's still getting treatment, the goalie. So I've gone, all right. I said, Jordan, come here. I said, you could be a hero here.

19:17Jon Parkin:I said, do you want a game? He went, yeah. I said, get your gear off then. get your gear off David Cottrell's bouncing the ball going to take the corner waiting for the keeper to get up so I went ref like you said he runs on doesn't break his stride heads it in near post he kept running in a straight line heads it in and the crowd was singing there's only one Jordan ball I went like that

19:45Chris Brown:what about me you get enough stick I didn't know his name

19:52Jon Parkin:I didn't know his name I didn't know his name honestly so you get a bit of luck like that and then I also oh I don't know if I can say this yeah I probably can I was manager at Wrexham right we're flying and I've got a player playing for me left winger who just dives non-stop couple of fans behind me going Saunders you need to get him off that out that Wrexham shirt he's a disgrace keeps diving every week. You keep picking him. Come on, Saunders. Get him out there. So every day in training, I don't give any fouls for him. Get up, stop. Stay on your feet, man. Referees are going to, they're not going to give you things on purpose.

20:28Anyway, Gateshead at home.

20:31Jon Parkin:I think it was Gateshead. I'll probably get that checked on me. I can't remember. It was about 30 years ago. I can't remember who it was. Trips him on the edge of the box and he dives. So I'm in the dugout here and the goal, it's that goal to the left there. and there's about 100 Wrexham fans behind me. There's another dive, Saunders. Get him off the pitch. He is a disgrace. You're letting the club down, Saunders. You keep picking him. He is an embarrassment to this football club and he bends it over the wall in the top corner. He took the free kick and bent it in the top corner and he runs into the corner flag on his knees, slides, and all the players are sliding into the corner flag and I never, ever have a go to the crowd.

21:16Jon Parkin:never bite and everyone's like celebrating on the all the fans like that jumping everyone's like that and I look like that and there's one bloke like he looks like Jockey Wilson and I just you know when you just look and his head's boiling and I thought what's wrong with him like he's like we're winning what have I done why is he so bitter and twisted angry so we won the game I went in my office afterwards I said to Brian Brian Bray, did you see that bloke in the crowd? He went, no. I said, honestly, absolute boiling head. I don't know what was wrong with him. He's going like that to me. With anger.

21:56Jon Parkin:For the audio, that's fuck off. Your anger, yeah. The steward comes in my office. Dean, there's a bloke outside, wants to have a word with you. I went, does he look like Jockey Wilson? He went, yeah. Boiling head. Yeah. He does. He looks like Jockey Wilson. I went, right, I'm going to go out. I said, come with me, Bray. And I said to the steward, come with me. I thought it's going to be kick off here. So I walked outside and he stood there. And I went, what? He went, I'd just like to apologise for my behaviour. Really sorry, Dean. I said, what was all that about? He goes, it's a long story, but I got to the game early today and I seen you drive in with your wife in the car and the jealousy just overcome me because I really fancy you.

22:50Jon Parkin:I went, imagine, I never expected it. I went, well, I'm not like that, mate. So I said, thanks for apologising anyway. I said, thanks very much. He goes, no, really sorry. He said, really sorry about that. I walked back in. I'd never forgot it. Honestly. And every now and again, I think, I never expected that coming. You don't do. I really fancy you football innit I'm not going to say I fancied your wife no jealousy fancied me can I understand why can I no no

23:23Chris Brown:we've heard so many stories from the Doncaster days with the lads obviously sharing them I mean if we could just talk through some of the thoughts behind the prizes what do we have TVs last hand at golf club

23:39Dean Saunders:DVDs Box of used electrical goods.

23:42Jon Parkin:Yeah.

23:42Chris Brown:And the big one?

23:43Jon Parkin:The racehorse.

23:44Chris Brown:The racehorse.

23:45Jon Parkin:Right, managing a football team, it's like any workplace. You've got to enjoy coming in. So I used to try and make it enjoyable for people to come in and look forward to training. And Friday morning was more important than Saturday because we used to have young v old and I'd say, right, prize for the winner. You can only vote if you're in the winning team for man of the match. There's a prize for man of the match, five minutes each way. so it was always an argument between two players how old are you? 27 right you're in that team oh no I'm not going in that team so there was always a bit of banter beforehand

24:18Chris Brown:you didn't want to be in the old team you'd always join in

24:21Jon Parkin:by the way so I would join in and Brian Carey my assistant would join in I thought right here we go so I had a set of Sports Direct Slazinger rubbish left handed golf clubs so I brought them in and a plasma TV didn't I so I said man the match where are you getting them from plasma's a bit a bit of a stretch well right honest to god right 28 inch it were and I mean this if you said to Jack Grealish who's on 300 grand a week reportedly what do you want do you want 100 grand or do you want a 42 inch plasma or a set of Pro V golf balls you go I'll have the balls everyone likes a TV or balls right everybody loves a TV even though they're only 300 quid to buy you know in curries so I would go plasma TV cost me 300 quid so the golf clubs he wins it doesn't he he's having his picture taken I like and it's a bit of banter the lads are going how have you won that and he's got like he's trying to hit the club he's having his photo taken so we're having a laugh and then I used to do you probably remember when I used to go match reporter in the Doncaster area what was his name Steve Osak Steve Osak this is not my words lads so I used to get a piece of paper like this He's given a match report on your performances today.

25:41Jon Parkin:He was standing out there behind the goal. I don't know if you've seen him, but he's given some marks.

25:45Chris Brown:But he's the actual reporter, Steve. Yeah, he's the name.

25:48Jon Parkin:So don't forget, it's not my words, it's Steve Osax. So let's go through. The losing team today, Chris Brown, three. Three out of ten. Immobile, probably got no chance of starting the game tomorrow. Not my words, Brown. Steve Osax wrote that. Out of order. How does he know what the team's going to be? David Saez couldn't trap a bag of cement. So I used to go two out of ten. So I used to go through. And then when we got to my team, our team, I'd go Brian Carey, eight. Commanding, commanding performance, conceded and international, played for Man United. And then when they come to me, I used to go, Saunders, now bear in mind, it's not my words.

26:29Jon Parkin:This is Steve Osak's wrote this. Saunders showed his class for five minutes. Can't keep playing with these dummies. he needs to go to another team where there's a bit more class around him 9 out of 10 must be thinking about playing himself tomorrow and the boys would have a laugh I used to put I used to put a hand grenade into a couple of players like during it it all seems like fun but there was thinking behind it I used to say like so I'd go John Parking even though I know I'm going to play him tomorrow I know I'm picking him the next day John Parkin 4 out of 10 try to get out try to get out the team tomorrow with that performance he only had 5 minutes to survive and that performance is going to probably get him out the team tomorrow we'll just see how he reacts tonight and we'll have a look at him in the morning and get him on the scales and if everything's alright he'll probably he'll probably start tomorrow

27:28Dean Saunders:it was usually on the bus a bus somewhere so we're playing away and we'd just be sat and you just hear the tap of the microphone I know it's coming we're looking forward

27:36Chris Brown:to it coming yeah

27:37Jon Parkin:it was hilarious and then because you've got to have a ruthless streak in you to be a manager it's in there so if we were in a bad run my comments would get worse you know what I mean and I'd start meaning a few of them and I'd say something like Elad's juif two out of ten if you don't want to be here just go and play for someone else I never wrote that it was Steve Osak wrote that juify not me but obviously looks that way to the crowd so I'd use it as putting I couldn't put the boot in but I enjoyed it we had these they were good lads like the lads I inherited at Doncaster as well were good pros and I had him Billy Painter Ian Hume and they just they were just too good for the league basically we'd be nil, nil, nil, nil and they would do something which no League One players could do the three of them Billy got you got a load of goals Billy got 18 I think and Humey got 15 David Cottrell 27 assists 17 goals and that were all just by luck you stumble upon it yeah like experience and I I know like we started playing that way and we played waltz all the way don't know if you remember that game Dean Dean first game of the season

28:59Dean Saunders:yeah

28:59Jon Parkin:and I had two weeks to put the back four together the team I didn't have a team two weeks before the game. So I thought, I can't get these on the training ground and get the back four going up and back and across. Rob, I went, Rob, you just defend where you want to defend today. I've watched these play against Wolves pre-season, Walsall. They play like Real Madrid, Barcelona, total football, out from the back. Let them have the ball in their half and we'll do them on the break. Let them cross it, force the ball wide, let them cross it. They had 68 % possession first game of the season. We beat them 3-0.

29:31Jon Parkin:Remember? You scored, didn't you? Cots scored from the halfway line. Yeah, breakaway. And I stumbled upon that, only because I never had time to get the back four.

29:42Chris Brown:You stumbled on it with experience as well, haven't you?

29:44Jon Parkin:Yeah, the first game of the season was that. So I went, that seems to work. We just beat them 3-0. They had the ball all day. In League One, the strikers miss. That's why they're in League One. Because they miss. they're not as consistent as Premier League strikers but the first game I can't claim it I was thinking what am I going to do today and I just we sat back and then I realised we can hit Brownie diagonal we can hit Cottrell and Bennett we can pop it through midfield into Ian Hume number 10 the two midfield players are good on the ball but can't run remember the game at Sheffield United where we couldn't get out we couldn't get out of our half and I said to Brian Kerry I've never said this before I said Brian I don't think we've got in their half for 45 minutes but it suits us we couldn't keep the ball right so if you can't keep the ball your full backs don't run out of position ever if you keep the ball and move up the pitch right back's overlapping crossing it to the left back they win the ball back off you counter attack goal so we just we just sat like that at Sheffield United for 90 minutes and we nicked that game I think

31:02Dean Saunders:I think it was 0-0 finished 0-0 but good result

31:05Jon Parkin:yeah they were top of the league and something like that but yeah I stumbled upon it and you never stop learning in football there's a group of players try and get some results with that lot

31:14Dean Saunders:get the best out of what you've got talk about man management you mentioned Dave Sayers then you signed was he from non-league was it Gainsborough or Bradford Park Avenue yeah but he made him feel like a 100 million pound player we used to take the piss in he fucking loves you like he'd score on a Saturday and he'd go there's only two people that can score that goal Frank Lampard and David Sayers and you could see because David technically wasn't great was he he knew his strengths

31:43Jon Parkin:aye for a goal yeah he was playing the reason I signed him I looked in his history and he scored eight goals for Bradford City one season and he got a few goals there for that club and a few goals for that club playing in midfield he always nicked a goal and I thought, we need someone who's going to run into the box. He had an eye for a goal and he was brave and he would work hard, wouldn't he? He would tackle and put his foot in and I used to call him son of Dean.

32:12Dean Saunders:Remember when you nick these trainers? Tell that one from all them. I can't remember that you tell it. I'm getting on my own nerves now, talking. You turned up and Dean had a new pair of brown leather boots and the pitch, it was between Christmas and New Year, so the pitch was horrific. chucking it down and on the sidelines it was just puddles everywhere so we've gone out to warm up come back in go out to start the game and one lad just went have you seen the gaffer he's put Dave Saez's trainers on that he's reported for the game but brand spanking white trainers stood in these puddles on the touchline because he didn't want to get his new boots wet

32:52Jon Parkin:he said gaffer you've ruined my trainers I said I paid for them

32:57Chris Brown:I give you that contract they were just riddled thinking you can never get them right

33:02Jon Parkin:never get the lace as wide as what the bin no but no he was a good character and he's only just finished playing Dave

33:11Dean Saunders:he was playing non-leaf

33:12Jon Parkin:Farsley in that wasn't he yeah he was in yeah Farsley

33:14Dean Saunders:bought your meetings that would be good doing the team preparation and this pool cue would come out of nowhere stop that and then he'd who's that pool cue off the wall chalk everywhere who's that Rhys Wabara gaffer write his name down it was Adam on a laptop with the eggs on at the back right have you done that right squiggle his name out put a name put a line through his name he will never play for this club make sure he never plays for this club and that was

33:45Jon Parkin:that was planned Southampton had Billy Sharp up front they had Lallana who's the lad Cork and Nigel Pearson was the manager and they'd done the three phases of play but they were pop, pop, pop and Ricky Lambert on his chest wingers come in off the line and they're just beating everyone up every week flying top of the league and then I was watching one of their games and Chris Marden never run back and normally he's a worker runs up and down the pitch and he never run back so I went look at him I'm sat there with Brian Kerry I'm going look at him not running back there he's let his man run goal let his man run can you believe that?

34:23Jon Parkin:I went, Chris Marsden, I actually like him. So I've done it to him as well. So I've gone, Brian, get that clip and put it on. Because I'm aiming it at David Cottrell. But I don't want to hammer him because he can't take it. He just needs pats on the back. David Cottrell non-stop. Kyle Bennett, opposite. Are you sure? Like if he pulled out the tackle or jump, give the ball away, off. whereas Cottrell he's like great talent his mind could go one way or the other if you shout at him he'd pack in maybe so I thought I'm gonna he's done it a couple of times Cottrell he's done it a few times I said right get that video on so I pretended I didn't know it was coming on Chris Marsden I went so look at this here we're playing this I said who's that there I got the pool cue I said who's that there top of the screen He's gone, Brian's gone, sir, Chris Marsden.

35:24Jon Parkin:I said, watch this. Watch. Still not running back. Let his man run. Don't care. Couldn't care what the score is. Not a winner. Loser. Adam, write that name down. Chris Marsden. And Adam, he's from university, right? He's not even getting paid. He's got the laptop. And he goes, I went, put a line through his name. Put a line through. if I ever try and sign him stop me he's never going to play for this club ever again that's how you get relegated players like that get you relegated and David Cottrell sat there and he knew he knew I was and a couple of days later he goes a bit harsh on Chris Marsden won't you gaffer I said yeah like I like him it was aimed at you I said it was aimed at you you lazy and he laughed but he got the message yeah because some players you can't remember Pascal Pascal Chimbonda

36:28if he said to me

36:29Jon Parkin:it's difficult to manage Pascal he's training and you've got like Stocky and Gilly like proper trainers every day all the same people put George Friend putting their foot in you and Pascal's walking about like you know what am I doing here playing for Doncaster at Spurs so we'd done a training session one day and he shouts he shouts something at someone and he gives the ball away I went Pascal that's your fault don't stop giving the ball away and he went something with F in it under his breath I'm sure it was F off so I can't have it so I went stop the game stop the game so I've got to walk over to him now right I've got about 20 yards and I'm thinking to myself, I can make this worse or I have to stand my ground here because I'm the manager and you can't have people telling you to F off.

37:25Jon Parkin:So I walked up to him close and I went, Pascal, don't ever tell me to F off on the training pitch ever again. I've got young players training here. If you do it, they'll do it. I said, and by the way, on Saturdays, if I come in the dressing room and I have a go at you, don't answer me back. You can't win. I won't allow you to win the argument, even if you're right. come and see me after training and I'll say, yeah, sorry, I was wrong. But not on the training ground, in front of everyone. Don't ever do that. And by the way, sometimes I might have a go at you, but I'm not really having a go at you.

38:01Jon Parkin:I'm having a go at David Cottrell, who sat next to you, who can't take criticism. But I know you can. So if I have a go at you half-time, Saturdays, or on training, I'm the manager, just come and see me afterwards and say I was wrong and I'll put all my hands up. Yeah, no problem, Guffer. No problem. Played Ipswich away Saturday. He does Trent Alexander defending at the back post twice. Right, 2-0 down. I come in and I'm thinking to myself, he's trained like that all week. Do you know what? I knew that was coming. As I'm walking in and I went, shut the door. I said, Pascal, talk me through that 45 minutes you've just put in there.

38:42Jon Parkin:And he went.

38:46Chris Brown:A wink.

38:48Jon Parkin:In front, and he's like this.

38:53Jon Parkin:And I didn't know what to do. Like, I had to go up to someone else because I couldn't say, what are you winking at? But all the lads are looking at him going, what's he winking at?

39:05Chris Brown:Did you sign Joof? Yeah.

39:07Jon Parkin:Yeah, Joofie, Joofie.

39:09Dean Saunders:Yeah. You know, you're doing your own work. He was likeable, wasn't he?

39:13Jon Parkin:Yeah. He was like, everyday funny. class player, like strong legs, roll the ball up the line to him. He played for Sam Allardyce, didn't he, at Bolton? And Hunt was playing right back. You should just roll the ball up the line to him. Pin the full-back, foul, foul. Or he'd roll inside because he was so strong. Really talented, but obviously he's playing for Doncaster in League One and he's just left Leeds and he thinks he should be playing for Paris Saint-Germain. Players test you every day. and they undermine you. Certain players undermine your authority. It's a test every day. If you lie to footballers, they'll cross the road to avoid you now, in the future.

39:58Jon Parkin:And that's what I always thought. If I see a player that I had playing for me, I'd like to think he doesn't cross the road to avoid me because if he does, it's been his own fault because he's done something disgraceful at the club and I've stamped on him. But Jufy comes to me, likeable rogue. Gaffer, I've got to go back to Senegal. I went, it's Monday morning. I went, what do you mean? He goes, there's an election going on. The president of Senegal needs the Juf at the side of him. The Juf. I went, I said, what do you mean? He goes, he needs me. if I'm not sat next to him he's going to lose the election and Senegal I don't know what's going to happen to the country if I don't go back to Senegal Senegal will crumble they need the juve the juve I was trying not to laugh right and I'm thinking I know you're lying I know you're lying but I tell you what then we've got a game Saturday make sure you're back Thursday don't let me down if you don't come back Thursday don't come back at all and don't tell anybody where you've gone.

41:15Jon Parkin:Don't tell anyone. So he's gone. I told Brian. I said, Brian, I've heard a classic. Brian's going, he never said that. I said, he did. And we're laughing our heads off. So we go in the canteen, Wednesday morning. Someone's got the remote control, flicking through the channels. Al Jazeera TV's on. There's Jufy with a white cape on, sat next to the president. The Jufy's endorsement. The Jufy was there.

41:42Jon Parkin:And the lads were going, Gaffer, it's, what, Jufy's on the telly there, is this a replay? I went, yeah, and I go, give me the remote. I said, it's a replay. Should we play that? He's not there. That was like years ago. And the boys were going, look, he's there. I told him not to tell anyone.

41:59Dean Saunders:Some of the characters that came in. You remember Lamine, Dayata?

42:04Jon Parkin:Oh, yeah.

42:04Dean Saunders:He must have been 52-year-old. we used to wind him up because when we said what's going on there like his legs were blatantly gone played for Real Madrid good for Real Madrid tickets he got him in the building

42:22Jon Parkin:he got me two tickets for my son

42:25Dean Saunders:he was never going to play I'm not going to start him

42:27Jon Parkin:but I'm not going to start him but he can get us tickets for Real Madrid so coming in Damien Placis remember him yeah he never got a game Damien he was like he see football happens like that we wanted the other striker at Olympiacos we were going to get Olympiacos' centre foot I forget his name if we got promoted up to the championship we could sign we had first shout on him if we signed Damian Placis who was playing for Olympiacos if you give him a chance we've signed him he's not done very well for us so the owner of Olympiacos or whoever it was I can't remember has gone that's how sometimes football happens can you take him and then do us a favour taking him and we'll give you the one you want in the summer and you do you do do deals like that sometimes yeah yeah and bearing in mind they can't be pathetic you know like the kit man signing the kit man like they've got he played for Liverpool but he weren't fit and

43:30Chris Brown:little advantages elsewhere yeah

43:33Jon Parkin:and you do things are going on I watch deals going through now. You go, Anthony. Anthony. How many million? 85 million for Anthony. I'm going, that can't be right.

43:49Chris Brown:Gentlemen, what a time to announce our partnership with Betano.

43:57Dean Saunders:Front of shirt sponsors of Aston Villa Football Club. They are. By the way, they're all over the gaff. Have you seen the orange? And the pictures. Yeah. I mean, you might think it's an energy drink.

44:09Chris Brown:No.

44:09Dean Saunders:But it's not, John.

44:10Chris Brown:No, no, no. You'll have seen them because you like them European nights because I think they sponsor the Europa Conference League and the Europa League.

44:18Dean Saunders:I certainly do. So that's where you've seen it. Just a quick one for me, Chris. Do we have an offer?

44:22Chris Brown:Of course we have an offer. Exclusive to another COSH listeners. All you've got to do, follow the link in the description. Get this. Bet£10, get£40 in free bets. Say that again. bet£10 get£40 in free bets don't get much better than that brilliant that's not the only treat either from Betano because we are going to the African Cup of Nations gentlemen

44:42Dean Saunders:yes we are I'll bring the sun cream I'll bring the speedos

44:45Chris Brown:we're going to final courtesy of Betano so we'll have a video out next week

44:50Dean Saunders:the link is in the description terms and conditions apply please gamble responsibly gambleaware.org

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45:56Dean Saunders:You mentioned Harps. Can you remember when, I don't know if you sent him in or you stopped the session because he deno'd you off? we was like that weren't we

46:07Jon Parkin:did he there's loads of things if I sat here all night and we had a beer you'd bring things up and I'd go I forgot about that I forgot about that as well I used to I mean one of the funny ones I seen Andy Townsend and he said remember Ron Atkinson when we at Villa with Brian Small left back I've gone yeah he goes remember how funny was that I went yeah so what happened if there was three goal gap in the 8v8 because we had an 8v8 every day up to the bank and back the losing team as the game's going on so what he didn't realise the team that was winning 3-0 they're suffering standing there waiting waiting for the and they're going like you're spoiling training gaffer like they're not saying it out loud so Kevin Richardson's gone Jim can we have a meeting with the gaffer me, Andy Townsend and Dean so we go in the gym and Jim comes in he's coming in now so Ron walks in and like you never get the last word in with him he's hilarious right like he's like 28 stone plays right wing every day his head's like a beetroot and like he's got one trick a step over and it never works and everybody tries not to pass to him because he kills it but he thinks he's brilliant right so Gaffer a couple of things just to improve training three goals and back is like spoiling training a bit he goes well if you don't want to run out there in the game we can run a different way it's up to you he goes yeah but Gaffer the team who's winning they've got they're suffering because he goes I've got a good idea why don't you play and I'll manage how about that for an idea that's a good idea is that it is that it and Andy Townsend went one more thing Gaffer Brian Small now Small he only played left back against Man United he didn't play he only played against Man United because Kanchelskis was that quick Steve Staunton didn't have the pace to court with him so he'd moved Steve Staunton up one to left wing and Smaller used to play no matter how he played he left him out next game he only played against Kanchelskis and Ron he's only 19 and he's in the first team dressing room he's a nervous wreck lovely lad quick as lightning but Ron's like making him a nervous wreck So Andy says, one more thing, Gaffer, Brian Smalls-Smally.

48:36Jon Parkin:Could you try giving him a pat on the back? Because you're hammering him every day and we've got to train with him and, like, he's a nervous wreck. He went, hang on a minute. What do you want me to do? He keeps giving the ball away. Well, yeah, just give him a pat on the back. Like, say, well done, like, now and again. Right, I've got a good idea again. You play, I'll manage. I've heard it all now. And he walks out, right, he storms off. And we have a game, we start the game off and he's warming up, running. No flicking his heels up like he's running. He's getting himself, he goes, right, are we ready?

49:11Jon Parkin:Are we ready, Jim? All right, let's get the game going. So we kick off and Smalley gets the ball and Ron's out wide on his own. And Smalley side foots it out of play. All he's got to do is put it in front of Ron and he shanks it out of play. Ron's gone like this.

49:29Jon Parkin:Smalley Unlucky Brian Unlucky Brian Keep your chin up pal Things will get better Unlucky pal It was my fault I run the wrong way Keep your chin up And as he walked off He went That's going to do him A lot of good isn't it

49:48Chris Brown:Brilliant I forgot about it

49:51Jon Parkin:Smalley would laugh his head off

49:52Chris Brown:While we're on Rob Did he have a sunbed in his office?

49:57Jon Parkin:Yeah. It was... Ron, if you want to know what shade he was, Dorito. You know a packet of Doritos? Gingery brown. Like tan. Same sunbed. His wife, Maggie, was on the same sunbed. He had a sunbed in his office with the goggles. I walked in his office once. He brought me off at Goodison. I'm going to see him Monday morning. I knocked the door. He's laying on the sunbed when I walked in. Come in! And he's on the sunbed with the goggles on. And I'm like, can I have a word? He goes, yeah, go on, go on. I went, well, get off the sunbed then. He goes, hang on a minute, 10 minutes a day, son. You're going to have to wait.

50:37Jon Parkin:So I went, well, he goes, come on, what do you want? I went, so he's laying on the sunbed. I went, why did you take me off? At Goodison. We were 1-0 up, right? And Jim Barron had told me, keep running. Kevin Ratcliffe and Derek Mountfield legs have gone. You'll score. You'll score a couple of goals later on in the game. Just keep running them. So I've hit the post, brought me off, 1-0. And I was like a petulant striker coming off. You know, like Cole Palmer when he walked off the other day. So I'm coming off. Even though we're 1-0 up and it's for the team, as I walked past him, he's like this, in the technical area.

51:14Jon Parkin:Didn't even look at me. So I breezed past him and as I got level with him, I went, that's a joke. Like you do. so Jim Barron chucks me a track suit and I carry it to the dugout and I'm sat now in the front row at Goodison and I'm going fuck unbelievable I said can't believe that Guy Whittenham's coming on and I was thinking to myself he's going to nick my goals that's how selfish I was thinking I bet like I've just run them ragged and Guy's going to come on and nick a couple of goals and I've just run them ragged for 90 minutes and the whistle went And as the whistle was about to go, Ron could hear me telling Jim, Jim, you told me.

51:57Jon Parkin:He comes and turns round. He walks round. He went, do you want to know why I took you off? Come down to the training ground tomorrow morning. Walk through the main doors. Turn right. At the end of the corridor, turn left. And at the end of that corridor, there's a door. And above the door, there's a plaque. It says manager. That's me. That's why I took you off, because I'm allowed to. you, you petulant little prick.

52:24Jon Parkin:So I went to see him on the Monday. I went, why did you take me off? He's on the sun, he won't get off a sunbed. I went, he goes, hey, pal, let's be honest. You weren't having the best of games, were you? I went, why are you saying that? I thought I'd done right. And he's laughing. Just imagine now, he's laughing. He goes, hey, how many shots did you have? I went, two. How many crosses did you put in? Two. Did he get hold of it most of the time? I went, 50-50. Well, you've not done your job then, have you? It's quite straightforward, son. It's quite straightforward. That's your job. I will never take you off if you do your job.

53:09Jon Parkin:Out you go. I walked out. But simple again.

53:14Dean Saunders:Yeah.

53:15Jon Parkin:Who's your favourite ever strike partner? Well, Mark Hughes, if you wanted to... So if you asked me to pick a team who I played with, my first name on the sheet would be Ian Rush because you're only as good as your strikers, no matter what level of football you play at. Mark Hughes, I would play alongside him, away from home. I remember we played Italy away. Ian Rush was playing for Juventus and Donadoni played. Do you remember Donadoni, Vialli? at the back they had Beresi Ancelotti and Ferry Maldini you know there was like what's his name Mancini was playing they had a ridiculous team they were going to the World Cup and it was a friendly for us and Ferry went right through the back of Marcuse's legs in the first five minutes ripped both his socks open Marcuse's calves were like a sheep weren't they he had like two sheeps on the back of his legs and honestly I don't know if I'd have described him as sheep.

54:13Jon Parkin:And he's gone through him and he had stud marks, perfect stud marks at both calves, up into the back of his knee. And he got up off the floor and he went, is that all you got? Is it? Is that all you got? He's going, and they were like spitting at us. And like, Rushy scored the winner. We won 1-0. And I thought, way from home. Dodgy, like turkey away. Anywhere where it's like a tough game. you want to play with Mark Hughes takes all the blows like a warrior then I played with Ryan Giggs who's like will-o'-the-wisp quicker with the ball than without it just freak of nature I play him on the right I play John Barnes on the left who's the best player I've ever played with like you've played with players in your career and you go I was like he's on a different level I don't know if I can't get the ball off I don't know if I play with him any you must have he must have played with a player and thought he's just ridiculous on the ball you can't get the ball off him John Barnes no matter how many men were around him he'd come out with the ball you wouldn't have to say keep the ball John like keep it turn out you wouldn't have to shout turn out he knew whether to beat you or and the more players around him he's just like natural brilliant and then I'd play midfield I'd have two guy who I played with at Blackburn who's like that a genius two guy great player I think Mark Hughes put him in his team imagine he played with Keane Ince Scholes and he put two guy in his team loved a fag yeah loved a fag at half time great I love a BAT here because I don't think

55:53Chris Brown:you played for Blackburn

55:54Jon Parkin:who two guy you did

55:55Chris Brown:I thought you said you played with him at Blackburn no I played with him at Galatasaray I was his coach

56:00Jon Parkin:at Blackburn but when I played with him at Galatasaray he had broken English right and they played they played like a back they played like hammering. But the full-backs would never hit a ball down the channel. Three months. I'm playing up front with Hakan Suka, another great player. I couldn't get a kick. Hakan, who's now the manager of Galatasaray, played right back. Good on the ball. Dribble inside. Back outside. Give it to Tugay. Tugay said to me, wherever I am on the pitch, I've seen you. Don't think I haven't seen you. Just run. And I'll get the ball to you. And I used to just, as the ball was on his way to him, I'd run ball had come over my shoulder Jan Molby the same I'd have Steve Nickel right back can play anywhere just a brilliant footballer played centre forward right wing right back centre half Paul McGrath Mark Wright left back I'd have Steve Staunton who's got every club in his bag you know that left handed set of Slazingers he's got every club like he'd just wait a pass and he'd find you 50 yards away or he'd float one down the channel with the right weight on it he wouldn't smash it into your feet you know when you come in off the centre half and it bounces off you and the manager goes get hold of it he knew like he'd pass it the right side of you just things that you can't teach and I'd have Neville Southall in goals and I played with Grobbler Peter Shilton Mark Bosnich Michel Prudhomme Brad Friedl I was lucky I played with some great keepers but Neville Southall would Neville would like for a period of about five years couldn't score past him in training

57:42Chris Brown:it's amazing how in high regard he's thought of because I was only young but he always looked heavy didn't he to be fair I don't think fucking you could score past him now by the way

57:53Jon Parkin:you've only got that far between each post haven't you do you know when you learn as you go along we played we played in Nuremberg West Germany against Wales Ryan Giggs is sub he's 17 and we've got to win the game to qualify so Marky who's played behind me and Ian Rush in like the number 10 position so the tactics were Terry Yorath right Dean you and Rushy stop the back five coming out stop the back five he goes yeah cut the wing backs off when we lose the ball you two cut the wing backs off and let the three centre-halves have it let them pass the ball into midfield and Sparky get in your starting blocks just take it in turns you're going to snap So, it kicked off.

58:38Jon Parkin:Stefan Reuter turns inside, rolls it into, just about to roll it into Matthias, who shows for it. And last second, he just runs up the right channel. And Samer comes from the centre-forward position into Matthias' spot and gets the ball. No one near him. So, Mark, he was just going, like, I can't. So, he goes, right, whoever comes deep now, Essenthal is doing it. so they were rotating in midfield it's the first time I've ever seen it and learnt it I remember thinking I can see what they're doing they just show for the ball run into the back four somebody comes out the back four into the hole they just come out of and you're all half and half everybody's in a position where you can't lay a glove and they're all technically brilliant and the wing backs are like lightning and then you've got them two up front Klinsman and Vola yeah I got sent off in that game yeah I did I kicked Thomas Stryker can't remember I just kicked out we lost 3-0 we were losing and we were out and I had it gone and Giggsie come on that was his first cap Giggsie come on as sub so I let the team down there do you know back then

59:50Chris Brown:we've had people on who's played for international teams I mean this respectfully like the lower and were it a bit of a holiday camp for you all the away trips

1:00:00Jon Parkin:Yeah, it was like, we're all Welsh and we used to drive like that Saturday night after the game, Premier League game, drive to Newport just to get there. We were that excited to see each other. We were like the pub team who could beat anyone. We used to believe we could beat anyone with our fans, Welsh fans, 70 ,000 in Cardiff, on the bus, Tom Jones songs all the way to the ground. Good to touch the green, green grass of home. We're all in the back going, come on. Yeah, we get there. And we played Germany in Cardiff and Rushy scored again. We won 1-0. and the tactics for the game, hilarious. Terry Orris, the manager, and we're in the dressing room.

1:00:50It's full, 77 ,000. And he goes, lads, before you go out on the pitch,

1:00:58Jon Parkin:hands up who's on a yellow card. Kevin Ratcliffe, like, they're all putting their hands up. Barry Orne's gone, I haven't. I haven't got one. He goes, are you sure? He goes, you haven't got a yellow. He goes, no. He goes, right, Barry, first chance you get, put one of their players in the crowd and let's get the crowd on outside. Come on, get out there. That was the tactics. And he's gone right through. Worst tackle ever. Watch it tonight. He played for Middlesbrough. Looks like Havertz. Played for Middlesbrough for a few years. Yeah. Christian Ziga. Christian Ziga. Barry Orn. I don't know where.

1:01:38Jon Parkin:Someone's rolled him a hospital ball into midfield and Barry Orne's just, it's the worst tackle ever. And Barry, like, oh, but... Yalla. Yeah, my son said to me, guess what? I just watched the Wales-Brazil game in Cardiff. Hilarious. I went, wait, he goes, you and Marcus, closing their back four down, both of you should have been sent off seven times. I went, wait, he goes, just leaving his foot in non-stop. I said, will he? He goes, yeah, Marcus, leaving his foot in and then stamping on him. As he's getting up off the floor. It's different rules now, isn't it?

1:02:15Chris Brown:Is there any truth that your wife thought you were going to Turkey on holiday?

1:02:20Jon Parkin:What happened? Graeme signed me five times, but he sold me to Aston Villa. And I had a close put in my contract that if a foreign club, because I thought I would have to go playing abroad at some point. If they come in, put a close in, a buyout. So Ron gave me another contract when I got to the end of that one. and the prices on the buyouts got lower. They made a bit of a mistake. And I didn't even know what the prices were. My agent knew and he told Graeme Souness, who's at Galatasaray now, and he said, if you put a bid in for Dean, two and a half million, you can get him for two and a half million.

1:02:59Jon Parkin:Two million it might have been. So Graeme rings me and I went, oh, you know, Galatasaray. He goes, do me a favour. Just come. And out of respect for him, he goes, just come and have a look round. Don't sign. Just have a look round. It's unbelievable. So I went. My wife was seven months pregnant. And she had to go. He goes, make sure you bring her because she's got to see where she's going to live. So we get off the plane. Like some fans picked me up, carried me across the tarmac. You know the belts where you get your suitcases? 10 ,000 Galatasaray fans Yellow smoke Red smoke Carry me through the airport Put me in a Mercedes About 40 of them Picked the Mercedes up And started I'm sat in the Mercedes Took me to the Polat Renaissance Hotel

1:03:53Chris Brown:Didn't carry it out No

1:03:56Jon Parkin:I can't Like you know Somebody will pull me up on that Took me to the To the hotel And then he said Right what are we going to do tonight We've got a training session At the ground why don't you come and watch see what the standard's like so I I go in the car and he goes hey Phil Bosma who's Graham's assistant went why don't you have a jog just have a loosener you're thinking about it at this stage I went what like on he goes yeah yeah he said like have a just have a jog just have a jog around the pitch with me he said you know get your legs if you want you know you can watch while we're jogging around underground innit Ali Samien Stadium.

1:04:38Jon Parkin:So you go underground. There's no traffic or nothing. So underground, and then you walk down a tunnel, up the steps, onto the pitch. And as I'm walking up the steps, I'm thinking... Sounds like there's a game on there. I could hear the crowd. I walked up, 43 ,000 people in the ground to see me sign. Honestly, they come to see me sign. They've told them all I'm going to sign. So I'm down, Paul, that gives me a Galatasaray fag. And he goes, just run round, Stadium Dean. You know, I said, I haven't even signed yet. He goes, no, just say it like as if you're saying hello. So I run round and as I'm running round, I'm thinking, and they're going behind the goal, they're going, Saunders, do-do-do, do-do-do-do-do, Saunders, do-do.

1:05:29And they go run over and go three punches, you know, way.

1:05:32Jon Parkin:And they all go way, way. Then I had to run to that side. They start singing, Saunders, do-do-do, do-do-do-do. And I had to come back. And when I come back, he's got like Adnan Polar, look like Imran Khan, big. he's got like a long cashmere brown coat on big cigar over his shoulders is this the owner the owner of the he's the president of Galatasaray and he owns the hotel nice bloke he's got a cigar about that big and like I'm looking at him thinking what I was thinking to myself what have you what have you done to me yeah go for a city break as I go back to him he went Dean well done if you don't signed there could be a problem.

1:06:16Jon Parkin:I went, Graham's gone laughing his head off. Graham laughing his head off. Philbo's laughing their heads off. I've gone, oh my God. They've announced I'm signed. I haven't. So then I thought I can get out of it by saying what type of houses have you got? So they showed us a house on the Bosphorus. Yeah, gated community. Four bedroom detached house on the Bosphorus. Lovely. It's like Switzerland, looking over. Lovely. My wife went home then, and she said, yeah, that's all right. And I said, I'm not signing. I'm going to negotiate my contract first. And then Graham says to me, right, this is the deal.

1:07:01Jon Parkin:This is the deal, right? He said, sign that, sign that, sign that, sign that. Yeah, get that. Yeah, right. Just sign that then. And I went, oh. And I signed it. And I enjoyed it, to be honest. I got 23 goals in 32 games. We won the Cup, the famous game, playing in a different country. Brilliant people, lovely. Everyone was nice to me. And my son, Callum, he was born in Istanbul, in the International Hospital. So they liked me more because I allowed my son to be born on their land. They couldn't believe I'd let my son be born in Turkey in their land. they saw themselves as like not as you know the football's not as good like the country's not as good but they saw themselves as a bit of like an underdogs have they ever been to Wales?

1:07:52Jon Parkin:yeah they've not been to not been to Merthyr fucking bleak up there by the way before someone jumps on me

1:07:58Chris Brown:and was the contract as good as the one that you were leaving or? well it was obviously you know

1:08:05Jon Parkin:it was like ridiculous money

1:08:07Chris Brown:yeah

1:08:08Jon Parkin:for what we were earning

1:08:12Chris Brown:unbelievable experience and at the time he was tax free out there

1:08:14Jon Parkin:funny you remember Hakan Unsel played for Blackburn left back played for Galatasaray and Turkey got 60 odd caps I think something like that he's playing for Galatasaray when he's 18 and the ball boy pulled the ball out of his hands right so the president come in afterwards Bukjeza Bukjeza Bukjeza Bukjeza to Hakan he starts crying I said what are you crying for he goes he's fined me$300 I'm only earning$150 and he's just fined me$300 he said I got no food I got no money nothing he was on$150 something like that so when he's young they're just happy to be at Galatasaray it's a chance to get out of where they are and like then once you produce they give you money

1:09:10Dean Saunders:that is iconic the one at the stick of the flag Graham yeah he runs past me

1:09:14Jon Parkin:Graham well I scored in the 118th minute something like that we beat them 1-0 at our stadium then we went there and lost 1-0 extra time and I scored in the 118th minute and we hardly had time to kick off and then I just happened to be by the Galatasaray fans they weren't many 62 ,000 they're about 500 not many because it's dangerous and someone threw a flag over and like Graham picked it up so we've like run round and then next thing I know like just celebrating with all the lads and like I'm like celebrating and I start like I'm by the tunnel not far halfway to the tunnel Graham's in the centre circle trying to stick it in the ground I think it's going to be a riot like not only have we just beat him and then he runs past me on the way off I said all the best and this fella jumped over the tunnel to get to Graham and he's gone knocked him out Sparkle broke his wrist Graham so we go in the dressing room after the game the lads are all opening champagne spraying it round the dressing room spraying it spraying it on Adnan Polat's cashmere coat funny when you're a player spraying it over his cigar and everything and I look across Graham's got his hand in an ice bucket he's got his hand in the ice bucket funny thing about that I was in there I looked at my right my mum and dad were in there in the dressing room my dad can get in anyway but I thought this is a new level he's got in the dressing room and I went what are you doing in here and they went oh kicked off outside because they went to the director's box thinking there's Galatasaray directors and all the families are all in there so they go the only safe place was the dressing room so there's security guards everywhere outside but they put all the families brought them in down to the dressing room the only place in the Fenobachi stadium where he's safe but Graeme he still can't go back there no Graeme what it's a risk going to Turkey yeah but to Galatasaray I imagine he's a god you know you know when they pull that big sheet across the back of the goal on European nights the T4 it's yellow and red with a silhouette of Graeme Souness the full width of the goal they still pull it across now and again yeah and did it ever get

1:11:44Chris Brown:too much over there like with the fans

1:11:45Jon Parkin:and stuff well yeah obviously like we played away games and they would know what route you go home and smash all the windows of the bus so on the way out of the ground we'd put our head on the floor bag above your head you know protect you from the glass don't get up until someone shouts from the front, we're on the motorway. But they would know the route to the motorway, building bricks through the windows. Yeah, and everything's in the newspaper. My first game played Vanspaw away, 100 degrees. We won 1-0, two guys scored, got up in the morning, having breakfast, someone handed me the newspaper.

1:12:26Jon Parkin:Saunders, z-do-do-do-do-do. So I went, what's that say? Big headlines. Saunders didn't sleep very well last night it was hot was it? I went that's the headline yeah yeah yeah so imagine what it was like after that someone's told him I said who told him that? someone he's got out he's got out he's got out yeah but I can't complain John I like do you know what if you try your best whatever you do football I tried my best I had faults in my game but if you try your best nobody can say anything can they you know you look in the mirror when you finish playing and you think I probably I couldn't have done much better than that I started at Swansea got released twice free transfer done my ACL in my left knee and I ended up playing for Liverpool and playing for Wales 75 times but it wasn't talent it was drive and then managing you just people say to me do you not get frustrated when players can't do what you do that's the favourite question they ask me I went no I don't expect players at Wrexham in the National League to be able to bury every chance they get but what I do expect is that they want to win as much as me that's the bit I couldn't get my head round and then you as you get older you think well they've lost their ambition to play at the top they're earning a living the lads so they're now earning a living they're not they're not trying to get into the Premier League they're 28 playing in the National League and don't expect them to be striving to they just need to pay their mortgage and they've got a job and they're doing the best they can but at the time that drives your mind you come in like half time do you not care what the score is?

1:14:22Jon Parkin:do you not care what the score is?

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1:17:47Chris Brown:Patrick Cliver. But when you left Liverpool, was it frosty when you left? When I left Liverpool? Yeah. Frosty? I mean, you were top goal scorer that season and then obviously soldiers of Villa.

1:18:01Jon Parkin:This is a lesson for everybody in life. And I can say it. Somebody from the Sun rung me. I'm not going to mention his name. And he said, if I give you£10 ,000, would you hammer Graham Souness in the sun next week? He sold you, would you hammer him? And I said no, no. I said I don't want to do that. Oh, it's 10 grand, it's a lot of money then. I went no, I said I'm not doing that, no. He put the phone down to me and he rang Graham Souness, who's his mate, and said I've just asked Dean Saunders to hammer you and he said no, right? Graham told his wife Karen guess what happened Deans they've offered him 10 grand he said no we're in Galatas right sitting in a wine bar one night having some food and Karen Graham's wife said to me do you know why Graham trusts you and keeps signing it you had a chance to put the boot in on him and you never and he knows you never he never mentioned it to me but his wife had a few drinks and she said that's his mate who worked for the Sun what goes round comes round doesn't it so mind you shouldn't have said that but personally at the time were you hurt when you left Liverpool yeah I was thinking like it was pride isn't it I'd scored 23 goals I brought Roger Hunt's goalscoring record in Europe I got 9 in the campaign and we won the FA Cup and I got an FA Cup won his medal I thought I'd done alright but Rushy was 30 and I was 27 I suppose he needed Graham needed a centre-half and he could sell me and he decided do you know what he's managers it's easy after the event isn't it we'd all pick a different team if I said to us the four of you now pick pick Man United's team for the next game we'd all pick a different team we would we'd get like most of it right but we'd all we'd all pick a different team and there's one singer one song it's me I'm the manager is an orchestra.

1:20:11Jon Parkin:You're on the violins, the drums, the trumpets. All of you would play. If I said you'd just play this song, you'd all play in the key that you want to play it in. So I'm in charge. We're all going to play in C. You're all brilliant, but you need to listen to me. And we all need to get on the same page, and then we've got a proper team. But if you all start doing your own thing, shit song. it's the same in management isn't it

1:20:38Dean Saunders:I don't think you can play a triangle on a seat can you 2.3 million to Villa yeah record signing

1:20:47Chris Brown:37 million today about 37 million might be more than that actually I think we did that a couple of years ago

1:20:54Jon Parkin:you can work it out easy I went to Liverpool for 2.9 million British record between two British clubs it was 2.9 million then so the British record now is Isaac 125 million and before him it was Rice so they'll be earning the most money and I was I knew I was because if you go for the British record you've got a few clubs chasing you they go like when my agent was going I'll get the don't worry I'll fill you your boots golf scorers innit

1:21:28Dean Saunders:I remember you used to get on to us when your manager said you need to be selfish lads about resting before a game. And you told us what you used to do on a Friday afternoon. You go to bed watching telly or whatever. And back then you only had one remote. So you used to get out of a driver golf club and just bang it on the floor. And that meant your missus had to change the channel on the telly because you were resting.

1:21:55Jon Parkin:It's worse than that. I had a portable TV in my room, in my bedroom, a little portable TV like that, tiny, no remote. So you had to click BBC One, click BBC Two. And then can you remember Eurosport come out and Screen Sport. Was it something Eurosport and Screen Sport? Satanta? No, before that, that was on the skybox in the living room. So I couldn't turn it over if I was in bed. So I used to have the driver. One bang was Eurosport. Two bangs were Screen Sport. And I went, I'm not getting out of bed. I am not going out of bed if you want I'll get out of bed if you want to go to Butlins on holidays or Barbados which one do you want I can get out now come down the stairs take all the strength out of my legs and go back up and then I don't score tomorrow and we're going to Butlins

1:22:53Dean Saunders:this is a random one but I was never a natural goal scorer I mean used to were how did you you know when you went on the pitch I used to get this when you joined in training what did you think in the game what was your thoughts on how you can get that goal or that chance whatever in general well

1:23:13Jon Parkin:I'm glad I'm talking to two strikers here because really the rest of them rubbish aren't they they're just odd carriers aren't they can you imagine playing at the back following people about tackling and heading it that's why they play at the back because they're not very good aren't they we're like artists good players in mid field. Decent players at the back. The lad with no coordination, stick him in goals. Same at school. Anyway, so I was, we all started off as strikers, didn't we? No one went to school when they were six going, I'm going to be a right back. We all like, the best part is putting the ball in the net.

1:23:53Jon Parkin:So I developed into, right, I'm a striker, I'm a goal scorer so I said to my son you know I knew I was going to get 18 goals before the season kicked off he goes go on then I said right in training every day I used to follow in shots off the keeper and when I was at Derby Arthur Cox wouldn't let me shoot I used to stand on the penalty spot and all I had to do was get the rebound he wouldn't let me shoot so the lads was shooting and I would walk in, you know, towards the keeper and if he spilled it, tap in. And I worked it out. It takes about 30 shots for one to come back to you. Or you might get two straight away, but it's normally averaging 30.

1:24:39Jon Parkin:So I thought, some mornings I didn't feel like doing it. And I thought, am I prepared to follow in 30 times for two goals? And if you add that up over your career, 300 games, say, you add it up at the end of your career, instead of having 280, you got 350 with no effort involved, just following in. So I got really good at working out Peter Shilton and he was the keeper, right? So to there in his post, saved everything. To his right, it stuck. Everything crosses stuck. He's right-handed. So his elbow there, when the ball went close to him, he'd sometimes spill it and I used to wait and I used to think this is the one this is the one and I got really good at it so in training in games I used to follow in everybody's shot no matter where anybody was shooting from I would expect the unexpected it's going to hit the post he's going to parry it over here and I would follow in so I'd get six goals a season doing that then goal kicks if I was playing with you too I used to get level with you and I used to gamble on every goal kick flick-ons and I'd run in behind, in behind.

1:25:54Jon Parkin:Sometimes you'd hit the centre half, you both miss it. Sometimes you'd flick it on, sometimes they'd flick it on. But I gambled on every one. I'm now on 12. Corners four, I used to stand on the keeper. So Arthur Cox was my manager again. He owes a lot of credit to what I achieved in football because his management of me, things he said to me, I still remember now. Who's the nearest man to the ball when the ball goes in the net? I went, is it a trick question? He went, no, who's the nearest man to the ball when it goes in? I went, goalkeeper. He goes, yeah, stand next to him and the ball will come to you.

1:26:32Jon Parkin:Stand next to him. They normally get their angles right. He said, so if you stand in front of the keeper, someone heads it, you'll get, so I stood. As soon as the corner was given, I used to stand on the keeper or I used to hold on to the post, hope nobody's seen me, and I used to sneak, and eventually I'd end up in front of the keeper. somebody dead it from the penalty spot and I'm in front of the keeper going just six a season without fail I'm now on 18 I haven't had a shot yet

1:27:04Jon Parkin:seriously it's easy isn't it I used to get brought down for six penalties a season I knew that because Arthur went you've stopped you've stopped running to the nearest post with the ball when you get through when you get through no one's going to catch you run to the nearest goal post as fast as you can and I'd run and like I'd kick it too far defenders would come desperate scythe me down penalty score four miss two I'm now on 22 that was it so my currency every year so when I went into training every day that's all I thought about but I go how can I get more then what if I'm a bit fitter so I can get loads in the 90th minute so I'm fitter than the centre backs so I'm not blowing I can still run over the top I've still got the strength in my legs to finish the chance because I'm fitter than you there's another one so what if I got stronger so I can hold people off when I'm through so I can just get my shot off instead of being like 10 stone weakest piss I can so I got on the weights and my legs and like and my whole life was how many goals am I going to score tomorrow and who's going to stop me?

1:28:21Jon Parkin:No, you're not. I knew every keeper, whether he was left-handed, right-handed, left-footed. I looked at all the goals they conceded. I was going to say, did you have a... Which side? Yeah, because of Peter Shilton. You had the blueprint for Peter Shilton. Yeah. Did you look at other keepers? Steve Ogrosovic, for example. Right, Steve Ogrosovic, don't try and go round him. Too big. His wingspan, if you pushed it round him, he could reach with his arm. But he's that big. His legs are open. So slot it down the sides of his legs or through his legs. So if I got through on Steve, Schmeichel started doing star jumps, didn't he?

1:28:55Chris Brown:Yeah.

1:28:56Jon Parkin:I used to meg him through his legs. Because after a few games, he was saving everything. You put one across him in the far corner and he sticks his leg out, toe pokes it away. But my drive, I don't know where I got it from. And obviously it sounds easy, doesn't it? But it can't be. It can't be. Otherwise, everyone would do it. But I obviously could tell where the ball was going next before the people who were marking me. This sounds bad, but I've got to be, I think most of us are. We're on the edge of, like, neurodiversion, ADHD or something. We're on the edge of it, I think. I'm on the, like, to be obsessed with football like you were, you were, and I was.

1:29:42Jon Parkin:I was, I'm, like, thinking differently. but you practice every day and you like football, football, football. Not everybody's like that. I think we're on the edge of being, you know what I'm trying to say. Obviously, we're not like autistic. We haven't got autism, but some players might have. Some players have got ADHD and can't like obsessed.

1:30:08Chris Brown:It's been ultra-focused on, well, it sounds like you were ultra-focused. like there's probably a psychologist at Man City getting paid 500 grand a year for telling strikers to put things in bite-sized, achievable goals, like you said, them little individual things, them 30 goal, 30 chances, it's going to drop in. People will be listening to this thinking,

1:30:27Jon Parkin:there's something wrong with me. Well, not just this, most things. But they think, is that like your life? You lived your life like that, yeah.

1:30:35Chris Brown:And so would you, you know, you said, it's three o 'clock Saturday, you've done everything right.

1:30:40Jon Parkin:So would you not go out on a Saturday night or not go out midweek with the lads? Never would I. Never drink after Thursday. Ever. Too worried that it's going to affect how I play Saturday. I was too worried.

1:30:52Chris Brown:He's not getting up to change channel. He's not going for a drink on Friday night.

1:30:57Jon Parkin:I think I scored 20 goals for Derby and I got a gold McDonald's credit card. Use it for a year. Order what you want. Imagine. You'd love it. I can imagine. And I never used it once. Never used it once. And my wife, she used to go in with the kids when I wasn't there. She wouldn't tell me. It's not really good food to eat, McDonald's chips. Not for an athlete. For an athlete. It's nice, but it's not. Backtracking. Yeah, but, yeah, I would eat. My mother used to make me steak and chips on a Thursday night because I was told by my dad, Thursday's more important than Friday. So you put the nourishment in Thursday, by Saturday you get the benefit.

1:31:42Jon Parkin:If you put it in Friday, it's too late.

1:31:44Dean Saunders:The thing is, I think you're obsessed as a manager because there's times a donk has to say if it was snowing outside or something and we'd have a bit of a later start, 11 o 'clock. We're driving in thinking there's no way we're training today. It's fucking six inches of snow. We think there's going to be a meeting, game tomorrow, job done. Pulling to the car park, ease on the lawnmower, on the thingy, getting rid of the snow from the pitch himself.

1:32:09Jon Parkin:For fuck's sake, that one man. Do you know what? Funny. Wrexham. We've got a 3G pitch at Wrexham, right? Do you remember when all the games got called off at Christmas that year? Was it 2011? Something like that. Remember all the games were off for ages? We could still train because we had the 3G pitch, right? It was snowing forever. And we had a tractor and one of them drag mats. So, listen to us on the pitch getting the snow off. Me, Brian Carey, Mal Purchase, the fitness coach, Steve Cooper, youth team coach, Joey Jones, youth team coach, Stuart Webber, who's now director of football, was at Norwich.

1:32:46Jon Parkin:He was a groundsman. Koops was Joey's assistant and we're all digging, right? Charlie, the groundsman, who's still the groundsman. And Kevin, who works for Charlie, who's still my gardener at my house. Hilarious, right? so we're trying to get the snow off to get training on it's like I'm out there I've got other things to do I've got training to organise, I'm out there digging the snow Kevin turns up half an hour late we've been digging for half an hour trying to get training on and they're all going like this, Brian and Joey Steve Cooper, they're all going oh here we go so I went Kev where have you been, the groundsman he goes ah jackknife the van I went say that again he went I jackknifed the van I said you can't jackknife a van you can jackknife a lorry a juggernaut I said you can't you've got a painter's van what do you mean you've jackknifed it he drove it into the ditch right and he's trying to make it sound worse I've jackknifed the van I went like they're all laughing all the lads right next day he's late again and they're all going oh my god he's going to get sacked I said I'm not he's taking a piss I said like it's too like comes in comes walking over with a shovel we're all we're all waiting I went go on fuel starvation

1:34:13Jon Parkin:they just burst on I went what? he's serious I went fuel starvation what do you mean you run out of petrol he went yeah he was trying to make that worse fuel starvation he's a groundsman he's still my Kev I'm glad because last week he was at the Wrexham game he's still doing the pitch but he went to the away game and I'm pleased for all of them at Wrexham because we had nothing no money Geraint the secretary the two groundsmen couldn't afford to repair the mowers training ground was couldn't afford to cut the grass and now they're flying aren't they two film stars gone in we thought it was a joke but brilliant

1:34:55Dean Saunders:they're still cutting your own hair they still do it but what You're still cutting your own hair?

1:34:59Jon Parkin:Yeah. How do you know? Is it that bad? Is it that bad?

1:35:05Dean Saunders:He'd come down and the lad's be like, ooh, that's a rascal. He'd be in the office giving it one of them.

1:35:15Jon Parkin:Do you know what? Can you remember Bobby Gould? We all had text, don't we? You know if you stand up in front of a group of players? It's done taking them long before they go, if he says that again, I'm going to burst out laughing. If he says that player's name again, or he says it wrong, you know, you're saying the player's name wrong or something, or you're laughing because Jufy's not even in the room when I'm having a meeting. We had a meeting one day and I was going, Jufy, you've got to close down better than that, son. And I'm pointing, I'm going, hey, where are you? He's not a gaffer. He's the president of Senegal.

1:35:53Jon Parkin:He hadn't turned up. I went, tell me he's here. No, no, he's not here. But, yeah, so you would have laughed at my stick or whatever. And other things, you'd laugh at every manager, didn't you? And I used to spot it as well. I was the spotter. Bobby Gould used to look at the floor all the time. Right? Hilarious. So he'd say something, and I swear to God, he could look at the floor for about five minutes without picking his head up. So he'd go, big game today, lads.

1:36:29Jon Parkin:Honestly, it only goes uncomfortably long. We're all like... And we played Brazil at home, right? And I'm running around on the pitch and he shouts, Dino! Dino! Get hold of it!

1:36:47And I went, Rushy, look at Gouldy looking at the floor.

1:36:51Jon Parkin:In the technical area in Cardiff, right? He's looking at the floor. I went, Giggsie. Look at Gouldy. Giggs, he went, speedy. Look at Gouldy. The whole team, we played in Brazil, the whole team, hysterical laughing. We managed to get it all around the team before he picked his head up.

1:37:14Jon Parkin:He's looking, I like Bobby. Enthusiastic. Imagine on the pitch, we're playing against Romario and all that. Giggs, he's laughing his head up. He goes, yes, look. We had a good laugh. I wouldn't change anything. Even now, I'm so lucky. I'm still earning a living talking about football. I managed, played. Would you go back into management? Yeah. We've been sitting here a long time now, but I am convinced. I'm not going to do it, but I am convinced. If you said to me, if you said to me now, how long would it take you to sort my football club out so that it's like we're proud of the players and we've got like a football club that's running properly.

1:38:02Jon Parkin:I say, well, if you give me five years, I would transform the attitude of every single player in the academy and the youth team and the first team. And if you forget the results, because we're going to have hiccups on the way, say it was, who could he say? Say it was Sheffield Wednesday. and I don't like pick up on that now. Someone's going to say, Saunders said he can show up the Sheffield Wednesday when there's about eight people tried on there. So I would say to him, and I'm not trying to get the Sheffield Wednesday job either. I would say to him, yeah, well, look, you're giving wages out to people who don't try.

1:38:40Jon Parkin:Some players don't care. They come in, they go in. You're like putting plasters over the wounds. I will go out at this club on the training ground at the academy, Tuesday nights, Thursday nights. and I will call them in and I've done it and I will say, right, to the coach and the tens, how do they do Saturday? And he go, we've got to be 2-0, Gaffer. Talk me through the goals. I go and they go, 10-year-olds. They go, oh, first one was a corner. I said, who's mounting the lad who scored? And they're all like, me. I said, well, don't let it happen next week. I said, and by the way, if any of these players, because I've got a list in my office, It's this long of 10-year-olds that want to play for Sheffield Wednesday.

1:39:27Anybody's lazy, just release them.

1:39:31Jon Parkin:Because you'll be playing for me soon. We've got 17-year-olds in the first team. Seven years, you'll be playing for me. Not if you're lazy, you won't be. And you've got to want to win. I walk off that pitch onto the under-12s. Say the same. I walk onto that pitch to the under-14s. You can say a bit more to them. And then I start going through, what's your job? 14-year-old. What's your job? Striker. How many goals you scored? 12. What's your target? 20. Yeah. If you don't get 20, I'll get someone who will. Because if strikers don't score, I get sacked. And three years, you're playing for me. If anybody's lazy, let me know because I've got a list in my office this big.

1:40:14Jon Parkin:Then I go on to the youth team, say the same. And eventually, five years, every single player that plays for Sheffield Wednesday has got a good attitude. You stamp them rules in without being like a dictator and then you encourage the skill. But the base of all this, if you play for Sheffield Wednesday and you turn up on a Thursday night and you've fallen asleep in the car before you get there, don't come. We want, like, lads who are going to have a go every day and if we lose, we lose because the other team have done us but it's not through lack of effort.

1:40:48Chris Brown:Get over the ball. five years I know

1:40:51Jon Parkin:well you won't survive five years because they want short term game would you I don't know

1:40:57Dean Saunders:if I've ever asked this but would you do exactly the same thing in terms of leaving a bit of context Donkles have just gone top of League 1 yeah New Year maybe New Year's day Wolves come in they were 18th ish in the championship yeah what was you thinking was it too good to turn down

1:41:15Jon Parkin:well I knew the budget was getting cut next year at Wolves The championship. If we got up to the championship. Oh, the Woodridge. Doncaster. We haven't got much money because obviously it was Terry Bramall, Dick Watson, John Ryan. They owned the club. Terry Bramall sold Keepmote Holdings for 700 million. Dick sadly passed away. Dick got 150 million. Terry got 170 million. Something like that. Don't quote me. Somebody will check that. And then John Ryan transformed the plastic surgeon and it was make yourself better, the company. Same thing. Yeah, Maya. His company was valued at 200 million. John is the oldest player to play for Doncaster.

1:41:58Jon Parkin:He played himself at Erieford and he loves the club. Dick liked the club, but Terry was more of a businessman. So we were going well in League One. We were going to win the league. It looked like we were going to win the league. And then teams come in through, don't they? and they put something in front of you where you go, oh, I didn't want that problem really, but it's a nice problem. So I went anyway. Wolves. I thought, can I afford to turn that down? Wolves, like massive club. And you lose six games at whatever club you're at, you can get sacked. You know, I would have been hounded out at Doncaster if you lost six on the bounce.

1:42:40Jon Parkin:So you know, you've got to leave at the right time. Anyway, Doncaster, I think, got 500 grand for me, compensation. They got me for nothing. So John Ryan said to me, Dean, you need to go. You should go. No bad feeling. You should go. It's the right thing to do. So I went, and obviously it never turned out. I was there three and a half months. I never signed one player, and I was promised I could sign eight because I thought I'm the fourth manager in 12 months. You've sacked three. Mick McCarthy Solbach Terry Connor 14 games 14 defeats Terry Mick McCarthy's been sacked Solbach brought a load of lads in from French lads who've never played in the championship right and I've got to try and sort it out I never signed one player I wasn't told the truth to be honest and then we're struggling aren't we three and a half months I got sacked and I think oh my god like three and a half months like disaster and I they put me on gardening leave and the worst bit was I went on gardening leave I couldn't get another job I weren't allowed to have another job so for 12 months I weren't allowed to manage anyone otherwise they stopped paying me and then they charged me 17 grand for my appearances on Sky so I had to pay I had to pay the money back and I was gutted one day and I'll never forget this.

1:44:13Jon Parkin:John Ryan rings me up, chairman of Doncaster. Dean, I want to buy you some food. Come to Nutsford, Chinese. I'll meet you there tomorrow night. So I went and John turned up with all his family. Lovely bloke, John, wasn't he? All his family and he went like this with a glass halfway through the meal. Bit quiet, everyone. I'd just like to present this to Dean and he presented me with the League One winner's medal he got me one he said it was down to you like obviously I thought it was going to be

1:44:49Chris Brown:a prawn cracker

1:44:51Jon Parkin:he gave me the he gave me the medal and he said well done Brian Flynn took over and done a great job and we managed to get up he said don't think I didn't that's probably the best thing I've had off an owner yeah it's good of him I appreciate what you've done thinking I've got a league winner's medal league one winner's medal but I weren't there on the day we won it yeah especially when it transpired as well I wish I'd have been there when everyone was celebrating you know at Brentford yeah

1:45:27Chris Brown:did you never say do you fancy coming back

1:45:30Jon Parkin:I've never applied for a job since I left Chesterfield and I got lied to there as well so I never signed actually I've never spent one pence on a footballer I've never paid a transfer fee I've managed six teams and I've never paid one pence for a player No wonder you're getting buggy-bottled No wonder I'm here today on this Well it's common sense isn't it I mean I've I've took jobs where I probably shouldn't have taken but you think I think I can like I just said to you Sheffield Wednesday I thought of the worst scenario Sheffield Wednesday bankrupt I I am 100 % confident and I'm not trying to get the Sheffield Wednesday job and if you offered to me, I'm going to say no, even if they did.

1:46:13Jon Parkin:In five years, if I was manager of that club, I would bring a team through that could play against anybody on the pitch. Work rate, effort, determination, players who want to play for Sheffield. I might not get the tactics right. I might not get team selection right because we all make mistakes. I might sign a couple of bad players, which we all do, but there's no one on the pitch. No passengers out there.

1:46:40Chris Brown:We've had so many pictures, so many stories of people unwrapping under the cosh O 'Neill Sportswear shirts over Christmas. I felt like Santa me, you know, like delivering these presents. Like the amount of people who sent photos in, buzzing with them.

1:46:58Dean Saunders:Do you think O 'Neill's have won Christmas or not?

1:47:02Chris Brown:Yeah, it's like coming when they were the Tamagotchi.

1:47:05Dean Saunders:Yeah. Just on the old shirts this year.

1:47:08Chris Brown:Well, there it is. Look at it. Beautiful. Beautiful. And if you want to sort your own team out, O 'Neill Sportswear is a place to go. Five-a-side team, 11-a-side team. Minimum of seven. Maximum of as many as you want. Many as you want or as many as you want. But the big thing is design to delivering. The key word there is design. You get to design your own kit. Put your own touch on it. Like we said before, 1-0 up before you even kicked off.

1:47:34Dean Saunders:I think they look good to play football in or do whatever you do, but also going into the pub, you're one of the luck, Chris. I think you look magnificent. One of them, pair of jeans, pair of trainers, job done. I tell you who would look nice in them with nothing else,

1:47:51Chris Brown:a beautiful lady. Oh, that's... Even not... You don't have to use the word beautiful, but an average-looking lady, I think, would be a beautiful lady wearing one of these.

1:48:05Chris Brown:I'm not wrong am I It's like a night A nightwear So you can be there A nightie At an intimate moment With your missus And you can be thinking of the lads Yeah Well the link's in the description If you want to sort yourself out With an under the costume Or sort your team out And get them all kitted out Maybe you've got a ladies team You'll have a full Eleven Beautiful ladies That'd be tough work for you Wouldn't it be again Managing them

1:48:30Dean Saunders:I haven't said a word In any of this I'm just being chucked under the bus

1:48:33Chris Brown:last minute. But yeah, the link's in the description. We can't recommend O 'Neill's enough. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast? Smart move. Being financially savvy? Smart move. Another smart move? Having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto. Bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state.

1:49:12Dean Saunders:I mean, we have got a big wolf's following, so we'll probably get shot for not asking. But what happened? Would you do anything different? What did you try and do? Bear in mind, you're taking over a struggling, changing room. Did you go with the same stuff you were doing at Donny? And it just didn't work?

1:49:27Jon Parkin:Well, obviously, I've been manager at Rexham before that. three years and I learnt a lot. And I definitely learnt. You know all this long throws now. Everybody don't realise. Have you played in non-league? No. Have you played at the end? You played, haven't you? Everybody thinks like they're not very good. But the managers who manage non-league teams, really clever. Like they actually know how to keep a job. One of the things I learnt, and you're not going to believe this when I tell you, Nathaniel Knight-Percival played for Shrewsbury, Peterborough. I signed him from Histon right on a free and he'd scored 11 goals playing left wing and he got 10 the season before something like that and 9 and I thought he'll get in the box obviously far post nice lad so I get him there brilliant in the air I get him there I said how do you score most of your goals then?

1:50:20Jon Parkin:he went oh regains I went regains? what's that? I said I've scored loads of goals I can't remember scoring a regain what's a regain? He goes, I couldn't believe what he said. He goes, and he's all innocent, as if everybody was doing it. He goes, what we do, we get the ball down the channels into the quality street, they call it. They call it quality street, and we get it down there, and then we try and force a throw-in or a corner. We try and force. If we get a throw-in, we try and throw it along the touchline so we can get a bit further down the touchline, so it goes out again. and then we get a long throw.

1:51:01So what we do, I stand on the halfway line, not interested.

1:51:07Jon Parkin:Two players stand, one on the byline, one on the corner of the six-yard box. We throw the ball into their box and we deliberately let them edit it out. We don't try and flick it on. And we ring this side of the box so you've got the thrower and three other players in a half circle. wherever that ball gets headed out the rules are it's one touch back post if anybody crosses it to the near post get off they'll bring you off the pitch he said and I used to creep from the halfway line I'd creep and I'd end up on the back post I'd either score or I'd head it back across the goal so I thought I'll use that and then I tried to play football when I first got there signed players from Liverpool Man City young lads started winning every week and then the teams worked it out.

1:51:56Jon Parkin:Let them have it. Started beating us 1-0, bullies. I had all silky football as young lads getting bullied by seasoned men. Let them have it, counter-attack. And then I gradually put a team together. It took me three years. I put a team together. Mark Crichton, Nathaniel Knight-Percival centre-half. Neil Ashton left back. Curtis Obeng, Neil Taylor left back. Lee Fowler Jay Harris Dean Keats three man midfield and up front Andy Murrell Gareth Taylor Andy Mangan Jake Spate Danny Wright that was my team and we like got 100 points and I mixed it up I done a bit of both so in answer to your question I went to Wolves

1:52:46Jon Parkin:I realised quickly there's three groups of players here maybe four but they all want to leave straight away don't want to be here but they all think they're Premier League players I've got Mick McCarthy's players earning 10 grand a week 9 grand a week and you've got Solbach don't know if I'm speaking out of turn here Solbach's players earning in the 30s and they know so they know so they've been helping Mick McCarthy every year Kevin Doyle's earning a bit more but they were running down the channels battling with Mick and then these lads have come in and they're on 30-odd grand a week and never played in the championship before.

1:53:27Jon Parkin:And they're going, and they're not very good, some of these. The players are thinking, I'm not saying that, the players are thinking they're not very good. So I went, which group am I going to appease to here? Do I go with Mick McCarthy's and get us winning again? Because we haven't won for ages and get us winning. And put it down the sides for Kevin Doyle and Ebanks Blake. Slide the ball down the slides, into the front, set back, cross, which how Mick played. And am I going to lift the whole club by doing it? Because they'll have a relief and it'll get them out of that rut. Or do we play total football?

1:53:58Jon Parkin:But I'm going to have to... Half of them are putting it down the channel and half of them are playing short. And it takes a while to get them all on the same hymn sheet. So, honestly, we've been winning every week at Doncaster. My first 10 games, 5 draws, 5 defeats. And 1 for 10. imagine, after three, I'm going, three games now, we haven't won. I got to ten, I'm thinking, and then we beat Millwall away, and we scored five, we won five games, I think. Ebanks, Blake got five goals, broke his leg, 3-0 up at Birmingham, broke his leg, down the channel, and never come back again, and, we slipped back, we slipped back then, so we won five, so I had 20 games, five defeats, five, sorry, five wins, five draws, ten defeats.

1:54:57Jon Parkin:And I got sacked. Which, the stakes are higher, aren't they, up walls? You've got a win.

1:55:01Dean Saunders:What were you like, you know, talking about your obsession, what were you like when you were ten without a win? Magic. Going home. I know.

1:55:07Jon Parkin:And, it's funny, because I work with Jamie O 'Hara now, right? So Jamie's got all sorts going on in his life, Jamie. He'll laugh at this when he sees it. So I work with him on Talksport. We have a bit of bander. It's because I was his manager. And I say, you got me the sack. And he goes, worst manager I've ever had. But I used to pick him. So like, anyway, we have a bit of banter. We play golf. Can't beat me at golf. It's four times now. So anyway, he's obviously got a great left foot. Played for Spurs. Pings it. You know, like, he's obviously talented, but he's not fit. I can see he's carrying weight.

1:55:46Jon Parkin:Right? So I went, if you get fit. So he walks on the training ground, first day. Imagine this, you laugh. He goes, right, Gaff, Cockney. All right, Gaff. I went, yeah, all right. I said, by the way, where's your best position? He went, anywhere. I went, what do you mean, anywhere? I said, you can play up front. He goes, better than some of this lot. It's his first words to me. So I just thought, here we go. So anyway, he played in most of the games. and when I got to 10, I thought that's it. I'm going to have to let some of these know. You can either walk out of the room and think I'm an idiot or you can take it on board when I'm about to tell you, but I'm going to tell you the truth.

1:56:28So I got a meeting and I started.

1:56:31Jon Parkin:I went round the room. I went, look, we should never be in this position. Were these your words, not the local reporters? No, these are my words. Not hot acts. These are my words. And I went, when you're little and you become a footballer, there's people you don't like playing against. There's someone who will come straight in your head and you don't like playing against them. That person, before, when you were at school or now, there'll be someone. I'll guarantee you that person is either really aggressive or really quick. It won't be anything else. So I went, have you ever asked yourselves what people think of you?

1:57:13Jon Parkin:Have you ever thought to yourself that people like playing against you? So I've gone, Jamie, walk out the room and think I'm an idiot or call me whatever you want. If I played against you now, I'd love to play against you. You're never going to hurt me. You're never going to run past me. I'm fitter than you now. And if you do get the ball, you're in the back four. You're in the back four. You're never going to run past me. And get this bit. In the 89th minute, because I'm fitter than you, I'll run past you and get on the end of a cross from midfield. And you'll let me run because you're not fit.

1:57:56he goes

1:57:57Jon Parkin:bit of an arse gaff I went Jamie I'm telling you now you've played for Spurs you've played for Portsmouth you've played in cup finals you're not doing what we're paying you to do you're not doing what you used to do you're not doing it we wouldn't be in this position all of you and I went round and I went round I went Sylvain Ebanks Blake Sylvain I wouldn't mind playing against you you're not going to run me in the channels the only problem with marketing you you might nick one on me in the 90th minute because you made a career doing it while you keep doing that I'll keep picking you but if you stop doing that no use to me just letting you know he's looking at me like that and I went Kevin Doyle I said Kev I've watched you leaving your foot in on a Premier League back four every one of them one after another and the goalkeeper chasing your own flick-ons like a man possessed at Molyneux ain't seen it where's he gone like they're all sitting there Roger Johnson Roger crowd eight Jamie and Roger so I went Roger

1:59:19Jon Parkin:Danny Bart the young lad sent off I went I wouldn't like to play against you you're going to try and hurt me every chance you get you're going to leave a bit on me and you head the ball out the box you might stop me scoring and I know you're trying every week wouldn't want to play against you son keep doing what you're doing so I went round the room and I thought if I get sacked I don't care I've got to tell them all because me I went by the way I'm going to get sacked here unless you unless you start pulling your finger out and we get some results I'm getting sacked not you so I'm just letting you know because I don't think some of you realise guys, how bad are you doing?

1:59:56Jon Parkin:We can't possibly be in this position. Wolves. Go up to my office. I went, I'm glad I've said that to Brian. Glad I said that. Got it off my chest. Next thing. One knock I got. Roger Johnson. He goes, what does that mean? I went, I'm glad you've come up to see me he went I'd love to play against you by the way I'd snap you in half he goes to me he goes I said exactly Rog do you know what you're the only one that's come up there I said to Brian didn't I Bri I bet Roger comes up to see me you won't be happy with that so well done son well done for coming to see me at least you care well done hey by the way you're our best player you're the only one show the rest of them get us out of trouble see you tomorrow walked out like that

2:00:51Chris Brown:I didn't expect it

2:00:53Jon Parkin:How could I get out of this? Yeah but you've got to tell players sometimes everybody thinks man management if I drew a picture of man management a manager he's got his arm around the player and he's going come on son come on you'll be alright you're a good player I know you're good you know you can do it sometimes man management is Jamie you might as well get your boots and go and play for someone else Don't come in tomorrow. You're not fit. Stealing money off the club.

2:01:25Chris Brown:That's going to get the best out of him.

2:01:26Jon Parkin:Yeah. You've identified him. He might go. He might go. He's right. I've let... I'm not living properly. I've let it slip. That's man management as well. Do you think that's the problem with footballers now? Nobody can take a fucking... 100%. Now, I'm on TalkSport, right? And Mourinho's arguing with Pogba on the back page of The Sun every day. He's late for training. He's like this, that.

2:01:50Dean Saunders:Remember, it was going on.

2:01:52Jon Parkin:And I'm going like Manny United used to be on the back page for gigs. Beckham, Andy Cole. Never in-house fighting. So I'm going, both of them need to leave. But I went, both of them should leave. Mourinho is not doing him any good and is not doing Pogba any good. And then he has a go at Martial. And then he says, Luke, sure, I'm playing the game for him. and I thought, that's one, two, three, four, five players you've nailed. Those five can't take it, so what they do, they go, by the way, you never signed me, Mourinho, somebody else signed me, so you're just having to go at me because you don't like me.

2:02:34It's not because I'm playing bad, you just don't like me,

2:02:37Jon Parkin:you're trying to get your own players in. So I know why you're having to go at me and I'm not having it. So they don't actually believe when you give them a bollocking, Pogba, he's going like this. Yeah, all right. You're trying to get me out. You're just trying to get... No, it's the way you're playing. You're playing shit. You're not trying. But they go around you back, the agents, there's five different agents. They phone the chief executive. Just to let you know, between me and you, the players are not having the manager anymore. Only takes one of them. He goes to the owner, listen to this.

2:03:13Jon Parkin:The owner might ring one of the players or the agent of another player, what's going on in the dressing room? So you've got to keep everybody on side, haven't you, somehow? You can only pick 11. There's 20-odd players in the club who actually go in, I'm a dickhead. Is that ego again, though, and player power? They're being too much? They're all on 300 grand a week. 200, 300, 500 Add it up, five players 300, 200, 100, 100 That's like 700 grand a week And Mourinho's on one And they're losing Let's just get rid of him When I'm trying to motivate you If I'm not the full stop If you've got nowhere else to go Apart from me I can make you better But if you've got something Another person above me Like they're trying to call him Head coach now aren't they Like I might be a dinosaur or for thinking that's how football should be run.

2:04:09Jon Parkin:No, you try running Boots the Chemist. There's only one boss in Boots the Chemist. Everybody runs when he walks in. Everybody jumps. It's like that on a training pitch. And if they think that they're going to sack you any minute, they're down tools. So do you think there's a manager in the Premier League now who has got that then?

2:04:30Chris Brown:Who has got that? Unai Emery. Authority team. Unai Emery. the players at Villa are shit scared not shit scared but if he says you're not fucking playing you've been shit they'll take that on board or he's been given the control to be able to do it there's one example

2:04:45Jon Parkin:which tells me all you need to know Harvey Elliott has gone to Aston Villa and not played so obviously he's not signed him and he's gone I'm not playing him you signed him I told you I didn't want him why would he sign Harvey Elliott and not play him surely he's a good player isn't he he's not played and they've tried to say it's 10 games and it it brings into a transfer fee doesn't it kicks in yeah the bye well play him 9 then tell him I'm only going to play you 9 I'm not signing you next year but he's not played him in 1 which means he's doing it on purpose they've signed him and Lindelof and Jadon Sancho right on the last day didn't they so I think Unai Emery has won he's won and maybe like they're intelligent enough to say he knows more about football than us

2:05:41Chris Brown:whether the manager whether he's signed me or not if I'm doing shit I think he's got a right to have a pop at me yeah I don't know if that's just a generation you'll think the same but John

2:05:53Jon Parkin:before you two play for me I tell you what I expect from you if I don't tell you you think you're doing alright that's a stock answer by the way how do you think you're doing I've been, all right, how do you work that out? When I met you, when I first met you, I said your job was get shots in, get crosses in, hold the ball up most of the time. Have you done that today? And you go, no. I go, you haven't done all right then, have you? You're kidding yourself. Pull your finger out. But if I just leave it, you don't know what your role is in the team, people blame, like, it's his fault. No, it's not me.

2:06:34Jon Parkin:Back forward too deep. Well, there's no pressure on the ball, is there? Oh, that's because they're not holding up up front. It just keeps coming back at us every time. Too deep. So it's just a... If you don't put the law down and tell people what's expected of them, that chaos happens. And that's why I'm not managing.

2:06:55Jon Parkin:Yeah.

2:06:58Chris Brown:One last one from me before we finish. And you can give us a one-word answer. That's fine. Bale or Giggs? Bale.

2:07:08Jon Parkin:Yeah, both brilliant. But I've coached Gareth Bale. I played with Ryan Giggs all my career. Genius. But Gareth Bale should have a statue of him in Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham, Newport. He got the country to the World Cup and the Euros on his own. Sorry to, like, obviously we had Ramsey, Joe Allen, Ledley. we had good players around him Ashley Williams but I've watched so many I've watched every game he's played for Wales he has won games on his own where we're playing dreadful and he goes he score any type of goal freak of nature and he got us to he got us to the World Cup on his own Ramsey he needed Aaron Ramsey to put him in Aaron Ramsey would see him early and Ramsey needed Gareth Bale to run early they needed each other they're both on FM so Gareth Bale's playing with players who are on AM you can run as much as you like the ball's not coming mate

2:08:08Dean Saunders:he used to use that one on his match reports on the bus different frequency 3 out of 10 I thought you were a football manager

2:08:16Jon Parkin:but yeah I would say Gareth Bale and nice lad as well lovely lad anyway

2:08:22Chris Brown:no thank you but by the way do you know this HMRC and that well fuck him off just you'll carry on being like how you are

2:08:29Dean Saunders:what did you say the stories are always based on true events.

2:08:32Jon Parkin:The story is based on a true story. I should say that. I should say, and thanks for inviting me on the podcast. And always remember, stories are for entertainment reasons and they're all based on a true story. Cheers, Dino. Thank you very much. Absolutely brilliant. Cheers.