Frank Sinclair | Banged Up Abroad

16:59Frank Sinclair:Oh mate.

17:00The Undr The Cosh Team:Oh fuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was all sorts going on.

17:02Frank Sinclair:It's Guantanamo, bitch.

17:04The Undr The Cosh Team:Yeah, there was some brutal stuff going on. Not too many stuff I can talk about but there was things where that happened in the boot room and if you was a bit out of order and you needed sorting out the light would go off in the boot room and then it would all go off in there on a player. So it was brutal. all that's toughening up off the pitch but i'm guessing playing against mick harford in training must have toughened you're up on the pitch as well yeah mick mick played with some tough players you know when i was coming through um we had some real monsters in our team big kenneth moncoo do you remember him the big dutch southampton yeah went to southampton so i had him there big erlen jonsson the viking um norway there were some real big lads there and obviously mickey harford as well as tough as they came in.

17:53The Undr The Cosh Team:I've seen him take some, he used to take some beatings off some real tough center half and just, you know, get up, brush it off and keep going. I'd be looking from the other end of the pitch thinking I don't know how he's dealing with that. But he was unbelievable. And there's, I've got a little bit of a story that, I don't know whether he was winding me up, but I was having a chat with him and we were talking about how tough it is and he loves the battle and all that sort of stuff. And I says, how do you do all that? He goes, it's the vinegar. And I was like, what do you mean? It's the vinegar.

18:22The Undr The Cosh Team:He goes, it's the vinegar, son. He goes, do you know when you used to make, you know when you used to have conkers as a kid and you used to put them in, there was that old thing where you used to put them in the, to try and harden them. Yeah, you try and harden them up, didn't you? You put them in the vinegar, leave them overnight, you get out and in your head, this conkers unbeatable. Do you know what I mean? It was one of them. So he used to say that on a Friday night, he'd sit and chat football with his dad and he'd get a vase of vinegar, two of them. and he'd sit chatting with his dad and he'd stick his elbows in the vinegar.

18:53The Undr The Cosh Team:And he'd sit there like that, having a chat for a couple of hours with his dad like that. And he goes, these, tough as nails, these are. I'm looking at it and going, all right, Mick, cheers for that. I'm off, mate. He was an absolute nutcase. Would he let you have one in training though? We all did. We didn't hold back in training. And that was something that was just part of the club. You trained how you played. and if you injured someone, you injured somebody. It was just part and parcel. You had to take it. You'd get injured as much in training, you know, in my younger days at Chelsea as you would in games because that's how competitive it was.

19:31The Undr The Cosh Team:You didn't want to lose any five of the sides. It was just real, real competitive growing up.

19:36Frank Sinclair:Would you know about it if you didn't?

19:39The Undr The Cosh Team:Yeah, yeah, you had to be at it. You had to be at it. When you've got people like Dennis Wise in your team, you have to be at it all the time. and, you know, people get onto you. Vinnie Jones, these are people that want to win every time they go out and train and stuff like that. And they're not putting back on any tackles. It was a team full of animals, wasn't it? Yeah, it was some tough...

20:00Frank Sinclair:Surely Vinnie's not taking people waste out, though, in training. I don't know about waste out. He's varnishing his helmet.

20:07The Undr The Cosh Team:Not waste out, but Vinnie didn't hold back in training either. It was part and parcel. It was part and parcel of the environment that we were trying to create because if you could do that in training, it was easier to do on a Saturday. And that was the mindset at the time.

20:21Frank Sinclair:Did you ever see it go too far where somebody's done someone

20:24The Undr The Cosh Team:and, oh no, he's not having that and fixed the cuffs? Oh, yeah. The one that stands out, there's a couple actually, I think Kerry Dixon and Graham Lassau. Graham Lassau? Yeah. Fuck it. You could slap him about me a cup. He had a bit of a temper on him, Graham Lassau. Bergerac, we used to call him. for obvious reasons. He had a bit of a temper on him. And I think either he's left one on Kerry and Kerry's not too happy about it. And they square up. Kerry gives him a little push or whatever. Next minute, Graham Lassau's throwing combinations at him. And he's like the size difference between them as well.

21:06The Undr The Cosh Team:He's a lump Kerry, six foot three, six foot four. Graham's not the biggest, but they're having a good go. So there was that one. then all the boys piling and obviously you give them five six seconds to throw a few we'll just find out who might win that one and then you all dive in and stop it but then there was one that I'll never forget to be honest it was Erlen Jonson and uh who was it Erlen Jonson I've got to get this one right he's had a scrap with someone and it was like it was like what Joshua and uh Tyson and Fury's going to be. Whoever the other guy was, I can't think of who it was now.

21:46The Undr The Cosh Team:But there were two monsters fighting. It was one of them. I'm not sure if I want to get involved in this. I'll stand off a bit longer. Yeah, I'm not sure if I want to. I might get one here trying to pull these two apart. It was Erling Janssen. I don't know if that was Kerry again, you know. I'm not sure if that was Kerry again. That surprised me with the show. I thought it had been one who'd like... Well, do you remember he had that fight? Do you remember when he was at Blackburn and he had that fight? Was it Perez? Batty. Who? David Batty, wasn't it? Well, he had one with David Batty for Blackburn, but remember the one he got sent off?

22:19Frank Sinclair:On the field with Perez.

22:22The Undr The Cosh Team:No, he had one with Perez. Him and Perez are throwing proper punches at each other where they've both gone to get a throw-in or something and they're fighting for the ball and the ball drops down and the next minute, Graham Nassau's throwing combinations again. Perez from Arsenal? Robert Perez? No, do you remember? Was there like a long-haired lad that used to play for Blackburn called Perez, a midfielder? Or am I getting his name wrong? He had really long hair. I think his name was Perez as well. Midfielder for Blackburn.

22:51Frank Sinclair:That surprised me. I would have thought.

22:53The Undr The Cosh Team:He was at Chelsea that one and they both got red cards for it. And then, yeah, he'd had one with one of his own teammates. He had, like I said, he was quite an emotional kid. And, you know, when he left Chelsea to go to Blackburn, and he threw his shirt on the floor for getting substituted or whatever it was, and he took his shirt off on the pitch and threw it on the floor and walked off. Never played for Chelsea until he came back to the club. Didn't play again for Chelsea. Got signed by Blackburn for five million, was it? No, for 500 grand or something. Went and played for Blackburn, won the league, and then came back to Chelsea for five million.

23:27The Undr The Cosh Team:So that was a bad bit of business by Ken Bates, wasn't it? But there you go, yeah.

23:32Frank Sinclair:He's featured a lot, hasn't he, Ken, recently?

23:34The Undr The Cosh Team:Yeah, Ken Batesy. How was he? I liked him. He was a strange old geezer, very old fashioned in his ways. But one thing you'd say about Batesy was he looked after the players. He loved the players. So anything you needed, Batesy would do his best to get it for you. You know, so he looked after his players, but apart from his players and his football club, didn't give a damn about anybody else. That's how he was. So a lot of people disliked him, but everything he'd done was for Chelsea, really. You got your bit of a run at Chelsea.

24:05Frank Sinclair:and then I don't know if we've been done here, but the loan to West Brom, second game, nine game ban for headbutting a referee.

24:13The Undr The Cosh Team:Yeah. Yeah. Well, you have to see this yourself, mate. It was unreal. First of all, I didn't want to go on it because I'd had a little, like you said, a little run in the team. I think I played the last three or four games of that season, made my debut, played last three or four games that season. So next season I'm thinking, right, I'm going to have a go here. And then we signed, was it Tommy Boyd, the left back from Celtic? It was Scottish International. And he came in and he was right footed. And I swear no one knew. So they signed someone who thought it was a left back because he was playing for Celtic at left back at the time.

24:51The Undr The Cosh Team:He was actually right footed, could play left back, but he wasn't right. So he was like you? Yeah, a little bit like me. And then he came in, we started pre-season. And I'm saying I'm better than him. Then obviously Bobby Campbell rings me and says, West Brom want to take you on loan. I think I've just turned 19, I think I was. And he goes, West Brom want to take you on loan. I think it'd be good for you to go and get loads of games and then come back and all that, which I didn't get loads of games for obvious reasons. But I didn't want to go. I said, I don't want to go, Gaffer. I'm like, I'm one position away from, in my eyes, I'm one position away from getting in the team.

25:31The Undr The Cosh Team:And he's gone, now you're going. because you're going and that's it.

25:34Frank Sinclair:Sorry, Frank. Was it a month loan or was it an end of the season loan?

25:38The Undr The Cosh Team:Three-month loan, originally. It was a three-month loan and then it was going to, we'd see how it went and take it from there. And to be fair, it was a brilliant experience for me. I loved it. West Brom were in League Two at the time and I loved the time there. The fans took to me and everything. And then I think I got caught up in the emotions of how important every game was. And we're playing Exeter away, this particular game. and we're winning 1-0, and it's the last minute of the game, and the ref gives a penalty, not for anything to do with me. I'm nothing to do with the penalty, but the refs give a penalty, and it's clearly not a penalty.

26:14The Undr The Cosh Team:And what I've done was I'm running back towards the goal, and the referee's pointed and give the pen. And as he's done that, I've gone to remonstrate with him to say that's never been a pen. He's not seen me, turned around and just ran away. like he ran in the opposite towards me and we just bumped into each other but he's a little bit smaller than me and he's gone on the floor and I've gone oh bloody hell sorry ref blah blah gone to pick him up like that and as he's getting up he's gone you've headbutted me I've gone what you can see it you google it you can see what happens and he's gone he's gone you've headbutted me and they took the red card and sent me off I'm like ref what you're doing that's never been a headbutt like that and he's gone anyway he's gone yeah you're off so he sent me off I think they missed the penalty and we won the game um so I've gone in the changing rooms Bobby Gould's gone listen that's ridiculous blah blah blah we'll see what we can do about that um so I got hauled up into the FA I didn't realize how serious it was until the next day afterwards I thought to myself I'm gonna get a free game ban I'll probably do the games and then I'll get back playing and then I'll go back to Chelsea.

27:26The Undr The Cosh Team:The next morning I was on the front page of every paper saying, ban him for life. Seriously. And I was like, I woke up, I woke up like thinking my career was over at 19. Like every paper front and back, ban him for life, fuck this, boom, boom, boom, and all that sort of stuff. And I'm like, whoa. So I spoke to Chelsea and they've said, get your ass back here. So I went back to Chelsea. They, to be fair, they were brilliant. They supported me with it. West Brom supported me with it. We went to the FA. We used the video as evidence. That's how confident we were. We showed the video and they've looked at the video.

28:04The Undr The Cosh Team:Whoever was on that panel, I don't want to say too much about the FA, right? But whoever was on that panel, they've looked at the video and how they can't see that's an accent, I don't know. But they're obviously going to back the referee. He's come in and said, yeah, that was deliberate. You can see he's running to me and he's stuck his head in and all this. And I'm looking at the Giza going, mate, you're bang out of order because he knows it was an accident so i ended up getting the ban that i got um eight games yeah i think it was eight games i think nine here nine games yeah it was nine games and i think that was the long that was the longest ban that an individual player got up until cantonar's kung fu kick that was the longest ban it's not really a record you want either is it not really so i went back to chelsea and got my head down and just trained and luckily

28:50Frank Sinclair:that's what got you in trouble in first place pardon that's what got you in trouble in first

28:53The Undr The Cosh Team:place yeah and then um obviously like i got my chance at chelsea not too long after that um but that was tough because for nine however long weeks it took me to get my nine mat i think it was nearly like two and a half months or something like that i'm just training and i can't play games and that i remember that being really hard to to deal with um but yeah i got through it I got through it but the club was brilliant is it right there was a different

29:20Frank Sinclair:manager it was Ian Porterville had taken over yeah when you went back yeah so do you feel like you were having to start again in a way um not really because I was around them all do you know what I

29:32The Undr The Cosh Team:mean when I went back I've trained him with the first team every day um getting to know obviously the new gaffer he likes me it's obvious he keeps telling me just keep yourself fit you're gonna get your chance and then obviously my chance comes in quite a horrific incident really I get my next opportunity in Chelsea's team because of Paul Elliott's injury in the Dean Saunders tackle which was you know it was a horrific tackle from both sides I think Paul went in quite hard Dean's went in to protect himself I don't think knowing him how I know him I don't think he meant it but it was horrible he went in with his studs high and he's caught him and he's obviously ended his career with that tackle and then I get my opportunity off the back of that so I start playing centre half for the rest of that season my debut was live on sorry my debut my next game back in the team was live on Sky Sports and we got Man City away and we beat them one nil away from home Man City are going quite well at the time David White's scoring for City for fun and and he's playing for England now.

30:40The Undr The Cosh Team:He's got in the England team, and Ian Porterfield on my first game asked me to do a man-marking job on him, and to be fair, he didn't get a kick, and I had a brilliant game, and I think got man-and-match from Sky for that game. Beat them 1-0, and then that was me up and running then. I was in the team every week. I think I got player of the year that season.

30:58Frank Sinclair:Did you?

30:58The Undr The Cosh Team:Yeah.

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32:43Frank Sinclair:Score more with the college-branded Venmo debit card and earn up to 5 % cash back with Venmo Stash. Got paid back? With the Venmo debit card, you can instantly access your balance and spend on what you want, like game day snacks, gear, tickets, and more. The more you do, the more cash back you can earn. Plus, there's no monthly fee or minimum balance. Sign up now at Venmo.com slash college card. The Venmo Mastercard is issued by the Bancorp Bank NA. Select schools available. Venmo stash terms and exclusions apply at venmo.me slash stash terms. Max$100 cash back per month. How was it when Glen Oddle come in?

33:18Frank Sinclair:Because, you know, Glen Oddle as a player, and what you're saying about the mentality of Chelsea at the time.

33:26The Undr The Cosh Team:Yeah.

33:27Frank Sinclair:It sounds contrasting. in

33:31The Undr The Cosh Team:no I think Glenn obviously the flair player that he was for me he was ahead of his time when it came to tactically with the game but he wanted a bit of steel about his team as well he wanted you to be able to play but he wanted you to be able to defend and at the same time he really encouraged you to be in their half of the pitch to try things and express yourself so he had a nice balance of both so I think when he came in it suited him obviously he started playing when he first came in and he'd left Swindon after getting Swindon promoted. He was playing as a sweeper at the time and then he came into Chelsea and he wanted to play as a sweeper, which I was thinking to myself, you need to play midfield.

34:12The Undr The Cosh Team:You're that good. Still? Yeah, you're that good still. Why are you playing at the back? You need to play midfield. But what he wanted to do was orchestrate and be the one that started it all and created the way we build it as a team in possession. and he wanted to do all of that side of it rather than, you know, being further up the pitch, which was, it was interesting because there was times where I remember I used to play, I'd play either right or left and Steve Clarke would play either right or left because we were both happy to play either side of Glenn. So it depended who the opponents were, we tried to match up, which would be best for us to play against.

34:54The Undr The Cosh Team:And there was times where Glenn Odell would start at the back, but then you'd see him out on the right wing and the thing is you can't say nothing it's the gaffer do you know what I mean I was about to ask that could you give him a fuck no you just had to leave him and let him get on with it because he was that good you know he might be on right wing for a couple of minutes but he might create something for you do you know what I mean so you left him to his own devices but then me and Clark we just had an agreement listen when he goes when he goes walkies let's just go to a back four do you know what I mean and that's what we've done fucking get back in here You're a fucking idiot.

35:26The Undr The Cosh Team:I know, yeah. But no, you couldn't say anything to him. You know, and there was a similar experience with Rudol in later on in my career as well. But Glenn, what a tactician. The way, the detail and the information he gave us on the training ground. We started playing in Europe because obviously we got to the 94 Cup final and lost to Man United in that game. But we qualified for, I think Man United done the double that year. So we got into Europe as well. so now you know he's pitting himself against European teams and we've done really well we got to the semi-final of the Cup Winners' Cup that that 94-95 season so it just showed with a team that was you know didn't have many stars in it I think Glen Oldham came in and he obviously signed Rudolet later on he signed Glendipol pardon was Glendipol

36:16Frank Sinclair:do you think oh yeah 100 %

36:18The Undr The Cosh Team:100 %

36:19Frank Sinclair:Mark Hughes coming in yeah he's a legend

36:21The Undr The Cosh Team:wasn't he he was a legend for me the most talented English footballer ever. And there's the argument with him and Paul Gascoigne, probably. But for me, it's Glenn Oddle. I just think that the way football was then, he wasn't appreciated for how good he actually was. If he was Brazilian, he'd have a hundred cats for Brazil, Glenn Oddle. Do you know what I mean? He was that good.

36:42Frank Sinclair:And what about as a manager though? Because a lot of people are saying he was an unbelievable manager. Why do you think it never really, especially with England, he never really kicked on as a manager?

36:53The Undr The Cosh Team:Everything on the pitch was unreal, but I think his man management skills weren't great. So he wasn't really a people's person. He weren't great in conversation off the pitch and that side. That's the side that I thought let him down a little bit. And he'd probably be one of the first to admit that as well. He was a perfectionist and he got frustrated that other players couldn't do what he could do because he'd show you things in training and expected to do it. Like Peter Shrees was his assistant and we'd have a training session and he'd go, right, lads, what I want you to do is I want you to get the ball, flick it up in the air, trap it behind your head, flick it back up, volley out there, run in the box and I want to volley, the scissors volley for a finish or something crazy like that, right?

37:41The Undr The Cosh Team:So we all stood there with our balls going, who's going first? And then Glenn would go, oh, I'll tell you what, I'll go first and he'd do it. He would do it and then everyone would go, who's going next? Do you know what I mean? But he had that ability that not many players had because what Peter Shrooms asked him to do, he would do it and it would be pinpoint everything he'd done and you'd just go, wow, what a player. Do you know what I mean? He found that.

38:06Frank Sinclair:It's like when someone nails it on karaoke in it and then you just take your name off the table.

38:12The Undr The Cosh Team:Exactly. It was one of them demos. Glenn's demos. You didn't want to be second in the line, mate.

38:16Frank Sinclair:But that is a really bad fault, though, of that, innit? You know, when you're that good and you get frustrated that people aren't, that's like the worst thing you can do, really. As a manager. As a manager.

38:28The Undr The Cosh Team:Yeah, as a manager, because you're expecting people to do things they can't do. Yeah. And, you know, the best managers get the best out of what they've got to work with, innit, really.

38:37Frank Sinclair:Could you go and see him, you know, if he leaves you out and you feel it was unjust, could you go and see him? And would it be awkward?

38:43The Undr The Cosh Team:It would be awkward. It would be awkward because I don't remember Glenn Odell ever admitting that he was wrong with anything, even when I knew he was wrong. I'll give you an example. What was it? I got sent off against Man United straight red for a horrific tackle on Brian McClure. And what it was, was that was the season that we were getting to the cup final, the 94 cup final. and before the game, we've got Man United at Stamford Bridge. Before the game, Glen Oddle pulls me in his office and he says, oh, come to my office. I want to have a word with you. So I've gone in his office and he's gone to me.

39:23The Undr The Cosh Team:Do you realise you're on four bookings? And I went, oh, right, yeah. And he's gone. Now, the semi-final of the FA Cup is in three weeks' time. The closer we get to it, the more it's going to be a problem with you playing on four bookings. Don't want you to miss that game. So we went, I suggest you take a yeller today. Yeah, take a yeller today. You'll get your one match ban. Then it starts afresh and you're easy then going forward because I could get a yeller at a drop of a hat. Do you know what I mean? It weren't difficult to me. I had 10 yellers by Christmas every year. Do you know what I mean?

40:02The Undr The Cosh Team:So I went, okay, not a problem. So I've gone into the game thinking, all right, at some stage, I've just got to do something silly and just get a yellow card and then I'll get my ban out the way and then bang, I know I'm sweet for the semi-final EFA Cup. So we're playing the game, we get beat 5-0 and then with about five minutes to go, I've realised, oh, Sugar, I've got to get yellow, haven't I? So as soon as I've seen that, someone's laid a ball to Brian McLear and I've just gone running out of the back four, steaming at him and all I'm trying to do is just leave a bit on him but I've totally took him out.

40:37The Undr The Cosh Team:He's tumbling in the air and all the Man United players come steaming in at me. It was like a naughty tackle. But it was one of them that I caught him. He seen me and jumped. So I've not caught him full on. I've caught him and just twisted him in the air, spun him in the air sort of thing. Anyway, I get a straight red for that. So I'm booing. I'm not happy. I'm thinking, you idiot. Boom, I'll go off the pitch. I get a straight red. I end up getting a three-game ban and I'm back for... It worked anyway. because I'm back for the semi-final. Do you know what I mean? So I had a free game ban, but I'm back for the game that I didn't want to miss or the gaffer didn't want me to miss anyway, like that.

41:18The Undr The Cosh Team:So he's pulled me in his office after the game again and he's gone, what the hell was that all about? I've gone, what are you talking about? You're the one that told me to get a yeller. Do you know what I mean? And he's gone, nah, I'm not having that. That's out of order. And then I'm going, gaffer. You did get a fresh fresh. Yeah. I'm like, gaffer, you told me to get a yeller. I've lost my head because we're losing 5-0 and I've gone over the top. That can't be my fault because if you never told me to get a yeller, I wouldn't have done that. Do you know what I mean? And he wouldn't have it. And he says, well, I'm finding you anyway.

41:49The Undr The Cosh Team:Do you know what I mean? He's got to take some responsibility.

41:52Frank Sinclair:At least 40%, I think. 50-50 if it's a yeller. Yeah. 60-40 because obviously Brian McLear is still doing a triple salco. Don't know. Simple instructions. Get a yeller. I know. Got a red.

42:09The Undr The Cosh Team:yeah that was glenn he wouldn't he wouldn't he wouldn't take that and i love glenn he's been brilliant to me since i've been in coaching and used it and and you know picked his brains on stuff when i first started um he's always been a top man to all the players that he he worked with he's always been there for him and it's just a shame that this country hasn't utilized his his knowledge of the game better than it has when you think about you know how many clubs he's managed and stuff and how long he managed England for he should have been at England for a lot longer and I think the country's football would have been in a better place

42:46Frank Sinclair:it sounded like he just needed a man manager with him

42:48The Undr The Cosh Team:yeah probably

42:49Frank Sinclair:someone who the lads could turn to

42:50The Undr The Cosh Team:yeah yeah I think so

42:51Frank Sinclair:was it John Gorman he had with him did he have him at Chelsea no not at Chelsea

42:55The Undr The Cosh Team:at Tottenham so he had Peter who did he have Glen Oldwell was Peter Shreves he had Peter Shreves which again wasn't really a man sort of like around the players sort of thing. He wasn't great at that either, to be honest. So that's probably what was missing, that social side. Talking of social side, I remember seeing you out

43:17Frank Sinclair:when you were at Burnley nearly every Tuesday night in Manchester. Have you always been like that? Have you always liked the pint? Yeah, that's how I grew up.

43:25The Undr The Cosh Team:It's the era I grew up in. Especially when you grow up with so many young players, all doing really well for ourselves in London, playing for the biggest team. I think one of the worst things that could have happened to us was the best club in London was called Browns in Covent Garden. And it was the top club. When you went in there, you saw all the film stars. You saw all the EastEnders lot. You saw all the singers and all that sort of stuff. And the geezer I owned, it was a mad Chelsea fan, Jake Payanotu. So he'd invite the Chelsea boys down. And you felt like you was a Hollywood star going in all these gaffes all the time.

44:01The Undr The Cosh Team:There were so many people that couldn't get in it. Top players couldn't get in Browns because they just let Chelsea players in. You lot, see you later. So we grew up, I started going there from 18 years of age. As soon as I got in the first team, we would like, again, it was that chemistry that we had, you know, and that spirit that we had between ourselves. The same way we were, you know, off the pitch, sorry, on the pitch, we were like that off the pitch as well. we went out as a group like religiously religiously yeah just want to go back to that i mean it's

44:34Frank Sinclair:probably the first day that i remember being 12 13 year old was when he started signing the labouf and zola and all that how was it for you when these bigotters are coming in yeah i loved

44:45The Undr The Cosh Team:it i was buzzing you know i mean the first one obviously was rude all it when we signed rude all it and i didn't know he had signed i literally saw him walk in the door at chelsea none of the players knew that it signed so he's just walked in and he's going hello lovely boys and all that and i'm going no that's that was his thing he called everybody lovely boy that was his that was his thing he said everyone was their name was lovely boy hi lovely boy hello lovely boy you okay like that and um you know he walked in and me and eddie newton was stood there and we're looking down the corridor and we're going is that rude on it couldn't believe it that we'd signed him signed Dan Petrescu, top, top international player from Sheffield Wednesday.

45:31The Undr The Cosh Team:Obviously, Sparky come in as well. And we're thinking, you know, how come these players are coming to Chelsea? This is totally foreign to us. You know what I mean? We've always been homegrown. You know, the odd player comes into the club that's got a bit of a reputation. But now we're starting to sign Frank Lebus, Gianfranco Zolas, Robby Di Matteo, Vialli. and they wanted to learn some, you know, Jan Franco couldn't speak a word of English when he came to us and Dennis Wise very quickly learned him all the swear words.

46:04Frank Sinclair:It's childish, isn't it?

46:05The Undr The Cosh Team:Yeah, learned him all the swear words, early doors. But they wanted to know everything about London and stuff like that. You got Rude down to Browns. Pardon?

46:16Frank Sinclair:You got Rude down to Browns. I did.

46:17The Undr The Cosh Team:I got him everywhere because, you know, Rude, When Rude first came, they chucked him in the Hilton Hotel. So our training ground was Harlington by Heathrow Airport. And there was a big Hilton on the roundabout. And they just stuck him in this hotel. It's the middle of nowhere. One Sunday, I picked him up. And Trevor Nelson was a really good friend of mine, the DJ, Trevor Nelson. And he was DJing in Ealing Boulevards. It's quite a funny story, this one, actually. So he's DJing all the Ealing Boulevards. I've gone to him, look, I'm taking Rude Ullit out. We're going to go for a bite to eat. I'll take him to Ealing.

46:54The Undr The Cosh Team:We'll have something to eat and we'll pop in your gaff that you're in. Like that. I'll go, but you've got to make sure that because people are going to go berserk when they see Rude Ullit in there. Like that. So we've gone, I've picked him up at the hotel. We've driven into Ealing and I've gone, what do you fancy eating? He goes, any type of Italian. He's just come from AC Milan and he, so he wants Italian food. So we've gone on the main road. I've parked the car up and we've seen this Italian and I've gone, go on, let's get in there. So we've walked in this gaff and as we've walked in there, I'm looked in the place, Wimbledon are in there.

47:28The Undr The Cosh Team:And I've walked in with him and I quite, I know Roger Joseph to speak to quite well out of the group of them. I think Robbie Earle was there as well, Marcus Gale, people like that.

47:36Frank Sinclair:So they're still quite nasty bastards.

47:38The Undr The Cosh Team:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Old Bull team, they've always been that, haven't they? So as I've walked in, like, I've walked in with Ruud on it and you can see them all looking like that. The eyes go like that. Is that Rude like that? So straight away, Roger Joseph, he's called me over. It's like that. So Rude's got the, we've got the table. Rude's sat down. I've gone, Rude, give me a minute. I'm just going to go and see these lads over there. All right. So I've gone over and I've gone, all right, boys, how are you? You okay? And they've gone, yeah. Is that Rude Ollett over there? We got like that. I've gone, yeah, yeah.

48:07The Undr The Cosh Team:I'm just taking him to, I can't remember, Ealing Boulevards. I'm taking them to Ealing Boulevards. Trevor's playing down there later. They were going the same place like that. So I've gone, yeah, yeah, we're going there later on. They've gone, hey, Frank, get him over here. Say hello to us, like that. So I've gone, all right, I'll give it a go. I've never been in this position with Rude before, so I don't know how he's going to react. So I walk back over. I've gone, Rude. He's gone, yeah, I've gone, listen, those lads over there, that's Wimbledon. They play in the same league as us. And I've gone, they want to say hello to you.

48:39The Undr The Cosh Team:You go over and say hello, like that. He's gone, no. He's gone, no. and I've gone no I mean just quickly go and say hello and then come back and we'll just he's gone no I don't want to like that and I thought oh there's a problem here by the way like that so I've gone back to the lads I've gone that's this and he's a bit shy he don't really want to say anything but they weren't happy because they're watching me when I'm talking to him and they know he's he's paying them off he's a big hit exactly he's a big hit he's a big hit yeah so they know he's paying them off no I can't I can't you know sort this out at all to try and style it out and make it out like as if whatever it is um so we play Wimbledon and uh we get there we get in the changing rooms I hear a little whisper that they've got a book running the first one to get a yeller for doing rude I heard a story that it's got back to me somehow so I've gone back in the changing rooms I've gone rude listen you know today with Wimbledon and that.

49:41The Undr The Cosh Team:Remember them boys that I said to you to say hello to, he's gone, yeah, yeah. He's gone, I've gone, they're after you today. They're running a book on the first person that can do you. So you better be careful when you're out there. He goes, no problem. No problem. So we go out there and I'm not being funny. Not one of them could get anywhere near him. They couldn't get near him. He absolutely was skipping past them with the ball. We ended up beating them I think we beat them 3-0 on the day and I'm looking at him and I'm seeing them and you can tell they're trying their hardest to kick him but they just can't get anywhere near him like that and I'm just thinking this geezer is just too good do you know what I mean but yeah it was a funny one though I can imagine him getting more frustrated as well than going I've tried my best

50:25Frank Sinclair:I've tried my best you do him I can't fucking get near him

50:28The Undr The Cosh Team:exactly

50:28Frank Sinclair:as you were telling that story I can imagine him going over going alright lovely boys

50:34The Undr The Cosh Team:didn't expect the custard no exactly unreal John Spencer

50:39Frank Sinclair:was the John Spencer

50:40The Undr The Cosh Team:please release me yeah that was his song wasn't it when obviously we signed John Spencer was a top player by the way he was really good really small tiny well we had I think we had the record for the the smallest two strikers you've ever had in the Premier League and it was him and Mark Steen they played together as a pair I think both of them at best were 5 foot 5 each of them do you know what I mean really small but a handful both of them could run both of them quality on the ball but obviously Steno went on with his career but John Spencer was still with us until we signed Gianfranco Zola and obviously Rudolet signed Gianfranco and Rudolet you know he doesn't want Spenny at the club no more because he knows he's a if he's not going to play he's going to be a problem a big big problem like that so you know a little bit a little big problem yeah so um so it got to the stage where spenny's just doing anything to wind rudol it up so he starts singing this song every time training's finished whether he's been involved in the session or not or he's been with the bomb squad whatever it might be he comes back in and he has his shower and he's got this where our change rooms was it was a good 50 meter walk to the showers and back all right along the corridors at Harlow in the old training ground.

52:00The Undr The Cosh Team:And he'd sing at the top of his voice. He'd sing, please release me, let me go. We don't love me anymore. And he would sing it so loud. It would give you an headache. And he'd sing it for 10 minutes on the spin. So then Rood on it was like, he didn't know what to do about it. So then Rood made his own song up. So Rood on it is the manager. Because he's player manager, He's still trained. So he's having a shower. He's walking up and down and he's singing. La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la. So he's singing that back at him instead of trying. He don't know how else to sort him out. So we've got this going on in the change rooms and we're all looking around going, this is nuts.

52:45The Undr The Cosh Team:Childish. Yeah, very childish. Very childish behavior. No rude. Very, very childish behavior. Obviously, he got his move to QPR and then started banging in goals for them. but he was a top, top character in John Spencer. What a guy. What a guy.

53:01Frank Sinclair:Sorry, because you know when they did start bringing these players in, like obviously your massive names, did they come for the door? Or did the club just get an influx of money to sign them?

53:15The Undr The Cosh Team:I think Chelsea's selling point was it was the most fashionable club in London because of where it was. West London, you've got Harrods, a stone throw away. you're in the middle of you know London you've got everything in London at your disposal so that was a selling point it was also a sleeping giant if you think as Chelsea in the 70s won the European Cup and stuff like that it's also a sleeping giant we started to produce a team that could challenge by mid to late 90s we'd become a force that could you know challenge all the big teams in in the country and even 94 when we lost that cup final to Man United, we lost 4-0 in the final, but we actually done the double over Man United in the league that year.

54:00The Undr The Cosh Team:We were up there as a top team and for half a game against them, we were the better team. We hit the crossbar, just couldn't score the first goal again. And then, you know, they obviously come on and were brilliant in the second half and it took two penalties to give them the lead in the game. But we were able to compete with the top teams because for me that Man United team was the best Man United team of all time I can't think of a better team you had Bruce, Pallister, Irwin, Parker as a back four Keenan Ince in midfield Giggs one side can Chelsea's the other side and up front you had

54:37Frank Sinclair:Marcuse and Cantona where does he rank in terms of the hardest player to play against in your career, Cantona?

54:44The Undr The Cosh Team:Yeah, he's up there. He's up there because the one thing when I played against Cantona, I played against all the best players in this country. You know, Thierry Henry, Ian Wright, Alan Shearer, Teddy Sheringham, all the top players I played against them. The thing with Cantona, he just made you nervous because you didn't know what he was going to do. Cantona, he used to do things. I remember once he chested one on the halfway line at Stamford Bridge and he's chested it and volleyed it without looking and it took one bounce went over Dmitry Karin when we had the Russian goalkeeper and it hit the crossbar and went over the crossbar and I looked and went how's he even when's he seen that he's off the line do you know what I mean it's like unreal he must have been scanning him for about three or four minutes before that before he's actually done it because he didn't look and I thought wow this geezer he's a handful yeah he must have got a bit of stick Karin for them fucking bottoms

55:41Frank Sinclair:Take them off, man. You know what I mean? With a fucking professional outfit. Which else are you like? You've got Arrods just right out of the car and you're playing grey jacket bottoms.

55:49The Undr The Cosh Team:Yeah, no, but you know what it was? He had issues with his knees. So he had, I think he had some operations which left really bad scar tissue on his knees. So the first bottoms that he, because when he first came, I was thinking, why is he wearing them bottoms? blah blah blah but then he explained it that he had to wear the padding so he had the bottoms with the you know that like bike paddings you know when he used to ride the BMX yeah the goalkeeper pads like so he was protecting his knees so that's why he was doing it but no one I apologize

56:22Frank Sinclair:I thought he used to twat I didn't want to get cold didn't want to get dirty yeah fucking little curly mullet

56:30The Undr The Cosh Team:what a keeper by the way he was one of the most athletic keepers that I ever played

56:35Frank Sinclair:I can't remember if he'd been raped at all either.

56:37The Undr The Cosh Team:No, he was a good 6 '1", 6 '2", but he just had a spring on him. That was unbelievable. Unbelievable.

56:44Frank Sinclair:You know when you needed that yellow card?

56:47The Undr The Cosh Team:Yeah.

56:47Frank Sinclair:You know what you should have done?

56:48The Undr The Cosh Team:Go on.

56:49Frank Sinclair:Pulled your shorts down. Yeah.

56:51The Undr The Cosh Team:I tried that one. I tried that one. Could have saved a lot of hassle. Yeah, and I nearly got a ban for that as well. Do you not remember the goal at Coventry? Yeah. Do you remember that one? Yeah.

57:02Frank Sinclair:Not only because I've got it written down here.

57:04The Undr The Cosh Team:It's amazing. So probably one, again, probably one of my best goals for Chelsea. It was the first game of the season, I think it was. Yeah, because it was the 9th of August. So it would have been the first game of the season. The reason I know that is because my daughter was born on the 10th of August, the day after. And I'm thinking in my head, imagine if something happened today that I was in the papers. It would be on my daughter's birthday if it comes out tomorrow's papers. you know just because all the football used to come out in the Sunday morning papers didn't it so I'm thinking what could I do today to get in the papers on the Sunday without taking a ban you know what I mean sort of thing so anyway I scored a goal and something just came over me and I just I didn't plan that that celebration I just started doing this silly walk and next minute I just dropped my shorts down to my ankles and continue doing it and all the players you can see them laughing in the background but it worked a treat my daughter was born the next day and I remember being in the hospital all the Sunday papers turn up I'm on the back page with me shorts around my ankles and it's on the 10th of August 1997 the day my daughter was born so it was unbelievable the way it worked yeah yeah exactly she's a bit embarrassed about that but it was um it was incredible yeah it's like you know when you

58:27Frank Sinclair:You bid for his shit, but you've just come back from shops and left your shopping at Doe with toilet roll. And then you've got to do that. The shuffle. Or Amazon comes.

58:39The Undr The Cosh Team:But I'll tell you what was funny in that game. We ended up getting beat. Dion Dublin scores a hat-trick, and we got beat 3-2. And we come in the change rooms afterwards, and Rudolet blames my celebration why we got beat. I'm like, what are you talking about, mate? We've got beat, and that's it. How can you blame my goal and celebration for why we got beat? But that was how he was. Instead of digging out Frank Leboeuf, who weren't marking him in the box for two headers, he'd pick on, try and pick on one of the weaklings. Do you know what I mean? So sometimes he was a bit like that as well.

59:13Frank Sinclair:And did you nearly get a ban for it, did you say?

59:15The Undr The Cosh Team:I went to the FA. They hauled me up at the FA. This time I was all right. By accident. I didn't put my belt on. No, I just, you know what? I went in there. We're not taking the video. No. we didn't take a video this time but I went in there and I just ate humble pie and just said listen I'm really sorry listen I don't score many goals and it just got to me and I didn't know what to do in celebration and the next minute I've done that I'm not telling them that it's my daughter's birthday or any of that side of it because then they're saying you planned it do you know what I mean so I just threw that out of it and said listen I don't score many goals do you know what I mean not in my own net anyway in the right net so so I've just got carried away and to be fair they kind of saw the funny side of it and I just got I got a fine got a slap on the wrist and a little fine so I was quite happy with that result yeah

1:00:03Frank Sinclair:by the way I still remember that FA Cup final like it was yesterday the was it 35 seconds or something Dimitri's goal that one yeah so just to build up all the pressure for him to score after 30 seconds you must have been oh

1:00:16The Undr The Cosh Team:yeah there was a bit of pressure on this because Middlesbrough were good at that time they had the likes of Giannino Ravinelli up front They had top players who was the Brazilian in midfield with them. Emerson. Emerson. So they had some real good players in their side. But the goal, I remember they've taken kickoff and they've given it straight to us. And then I think Wisey slips Di Matteo in. I'm on the right hand side and I just start bombing it. There is space. The world's opened up and I'm just thinking if he turns out and slides me, I'm going to get to the byline and get a crossing so I'm full pelt on the right hand side and Dimitri is travelling up the middle of the pitch and as I'm running I'm thinking well slide me then slide me there's no one there and I'm seeing him and he's opening it out and I'm thinking you ain't going to shoot from there and as he goes to shoot I'm ready to hammer him what are you doing next minute I just see it dipping hits the crossbar and goes in and we just all go mad we're chasing him all around the pitch weren't we he was the quickest he ever running by the way I couldn't catch him but it was a brilliant day for the football club because obviously we hadn't won nothing for something like 38 years or something like that.

1:01:30The Undr The Cosh Team:We had top supporters and they deserved that day, I thought.

1:01:34Frank Sinclair:Do you know, when you look back on leaving, do you see it as, you know, when they started bringing the bigots in 95, 96, do you see it as you had two or three years of playing with these players? Yeah. Or is there any kind of thing, I wish I didn't have to leave? Yeah, of course. You know what I'm trying to say?

1:01:51The Undr The Cosh Team:I was heartbroken when I left. I was heartbroken when I left Chelsea. And when you get that conversation with the manager saying that a club's accepted a bid for you, I was devastated and I couldn't believe it. And the agent told me about it. I think the thing was as well, we signed Marcel Desailly, Ferreira from Barcelona, Desailly from AC Milan, maybe. And we signed Michael Laudrup, wasn't it? Yeah, we signed Laudrup as well. So three top players. For me, that's just adding to a good squad. That's what I saw it as. all pre-season I played through pre-season. So I'd either play right back or I'd play centre-half with Marcel Desailly.

1:02:38The Undr The Cosh Team:And I just saw myself like, yeah, I'm still going to play. I've got to play somewhere in the team. Do you know what I mean? I've just, dad, I've just won the FA Cup. We've just won the Cup Winners' Cup. And I've just scored in the Cup Final, in the League Cup Final as well, scored the winner in that. So then I go to a World Cup, come back I'm gonna play that's in my head so we done preseason I played all the games through preseason and it was like the last week we was on tour somewhere and the agent rang me and said you Chelsea just accepted a bid off Leicester City for you I was like what you talk I thought it was a wind-up and like what you're talking about he's gone yet they they've said that they need to recoup some money for the play the money they've shelled out for some of the the big hitters obviously they've just signed and they want to take the the bid that Leicester had brought in for you and I was devastated had you been looked after contract wise by the club the year before I signed a five-year deal and the next season is my temp season so I'm entitled to a testimonial and I'm thinking I've been there since I was 11 so these all these things are going through going through me head and um but as as I said before I didn't want to hear Luca say that to me I wanted him to say listen leave it to me you ain't going anywhere and I didn't get that so I obviously thought okay well if he's saying I can go if I want to but oh I can stay I might as well explore what Lester is all about um so I spoke to me agent and we arranged to go up the motorway and speak to Martin O 'Neill.

1:04:18Frank Sinclair:We had a lot of lads on who've played under O 'Neill and they talk about his man management style. Is there any examples how he was with you where he made you feel 10 foot tall?

1:04:30The Undr The Cosh Team:The first time I met him. First time I met him. So we arranged to meet him on the M1 and me and my agent go up to meet him, him and John Robinson. We meet at a hotel and walk in with my agent, walking towards him. And when I get in the distance of he can, I can hear him and he can hear me coming like that. He taps John Robinson. He goes, John, look, look, can you believe he's here? So I hear him that as I'm walking towards him, right, straight up. He's gone, can you believe he's here? Like that. So I sat down and he's gone, I can't believe you're here, son. And he went to me, apart from Tony Adams, Steve Bald, and I think he said Des Walker, I think he said, was it Des Walker he said?

1:05:18The Undr The Cosh Team:I can't remember who the other player was. He said one more player. He goes, you're the best defender in the Premier League. So straight away, I feel like, ooh. I've gone from that rejection that I've just had and having to leave to someone telling me I'm pretty much the best thing since sliced bread. So straight away, I'm buying it. I want to hear what else. Even if it's full of shit.

1:05:40Frank Sinclair:Give me more. Give me more.

1:05:42The Undr The Cosh Team:Well, funny enough, I told Matt Elliott and he said, oh, he said the same to me. He said, when I told Matt earlier, he went, yeah, he said the same to me.

1:05:56The Undr The Cosh Team:But it don't matter whether he said it before. At that moment, I needed to hear that because of obviously the rejection of leaving Chelsea. So I sit down and straight away, then this was masterful from him, by the way. straight away it's almost like you know when you got your salt and peppers and stuff just anything that's on the table he says to me like doesn't talk about money doesn't talk about anything else you ask me how i am blah blah blah what do i what's my vices was one of the first questions what's your vice i said listen i like a drink i like a night out but i'm not i'm not in that case do you know what i mean like that and he's gone oh you're fitting straight away with the lads That's even better to win.

1:06:38Frank Sinclair:He's the best defender in the Premier League.

1:06:40The Undr The Cosh Team:You'll fit in straight away. And then he starts talking about the team. Just sign big Jerry Taggart. He will run for a brick wall for me. Like that. Nice left foot. Matt Elliott, big centre half. Says he can't run. But he's good on the ball and he never loses an header. Like that. And he says, there, that's you. We play three at the back. That's you. There. And then he starts talking about Neil Lennon. uh field zagaragius steve guppy the best crosser of a ball from the left hand side on that side and then he goes robbie savage run all day boom and boom he goes do you know anything about robbie savage and i goes no i don't i don't really know him like like that and he goes okay well listen he's another one run for a brick wall for you run all day energy to burn just don't ever give him the football and I went what?

1:07:34The Undr The Cosh Team:he said just don't give him the ball and what do you mean? he said don't give him the ball like that he does his thing in the team give the ball to our best players give the ball to Muzi give the ball to Lenny give the ball to Hesk like that so I went alright then yeah fair enough like that so I mean Sav had a brilliant career and he was better than don't give him the ball by the way but that's what what Martin O 'Neill wanted you to do was play to your strengths he didn't particularly want me to have the ball, but he wanted me to play against the quickest players in the opposition and he wanted me to defend.

1:08:06The Undr The Cosh Team:We ended the conversation and I remember walking out of there and I feel unbelievable compared to what I felt like driving up the motorway, obviously just leaving Chelsea. And then I went, by the way, we didn't say anything. He didn't say anything about how much I'm going to be on. We didn't speak money once. And yet he's still,

1:08:29Frank Sinclair:you personally come away from that thinking, I want to sign.

1:08:32The Undr The Cosh Team:I'm going to sign for him. I'm going to sign for him. I want to sign for him. But we didn't mention one penny. So I've obviously left it to my agent. He's gone, listen, don't worry. You'll be on more money than yours on at Chelsea. You'll be looked after. So I went, that's fine for me then. That's good enough for me. So I went down the road and I think, I can't remember what day that was on, but within the two or three days, I was up there and my debut was against Man United away. But it's hard work, isn't it?

1:08:56Frank Sinclair:Like being chucked into a team but you know, you're not a pre-season. Like you see, you're not maybe knowing some of the lines. I honestly,

1:09:04The Undr The Cosh Team:because I'm a nightmare with names, me. I'm a nightmare with names and I honestly played at Old Trafford and I didn't know everybody's name in the team when I was playing in that game. You know, when you've got to think, oh, what's his name again?

1:09:18Frank Sinclair:Which one's Savage? Yeah. Oh, shit. Honestly, yeah. I passed him the fucking ball. He's going to go mad with me.

1:09:24The Undr The Cosh Team:Yeah, exactly. But I didn't know everybody's name. I remember distinctly being on the pitch and knowing, just at a drop of out, I can't say everybody's name because I'd only trained twice with him.

1:09:34Frank Sinclair:You didn't go a lovely boy, did you? Who? You didn't go a lovely boy.

1:09:37The Undr The Cosh Team:I should have gone around just calling everybody lovely boy. That's a terrible start.

1:09:42Frank Sinclair:He's a strange one, isn't he, Frank? Yeah,

1:09:45The Undr The Cosh Team:exactly.

1:09:46Frank Sinclair:Did you fit straight in though? Yeah, I did. When you settled in?

1:09:48The Undr The Cosh Team:Yeah, obviously knowing Muzzy straight away, me and Muzzy grew up together so that was class and then the boys got to know very quickly that I'd be involved in the social and it was a social and a half when you think about your Jerry Taggerts your Muzzies your Neil Lennons top players but we used to go out we had a we had a Sunday club you had to be there by 11 o 'clock for every for every for every five minutes you were late you had to do a shot soon as you walked through the door so it was brutal that's a nice school

1:10:23Frank Sinclair:that's even nicer than getting in the the wicker basket under the water that bastard fucking hell

1:10:30The Undr The Cosh Team:so it was it was brutal school and we'd we'd come out we'd meet up at 11 o 'clock and we'd sit in this one particular pub and we'd leave and it'd be dark when we left and that was every Sunday in this gaff

1:10:43Frank Sinclair:and what were you like what was like the training like on the Monday

1:10:46The Undr The Cosh Team:yeah we'd get through it we'd get through it I was always one of them if I went out I trained harder and you'd do enough and Martin O 'Neill the one thing you'd say about him was he wasn't that bothered about what you've done during the week as long as you've done the business on a Saturday if you're winning on a Saturday he hasn't got a problem with you so there was never a problem with that we didn't really see the gaffer Martin O 'Neill during the week you'd see him on a Tuesday because we had Wednesday off and you know you're doing some running. He'd have his stopwatch around. He's got that rugby jersey on, and he's got the Brian Clough rugby jersey on, and he'd have the stopwatch on, and you'd see him coming, and you'd go, oh, no, here he comes.

1:11:28The Undr The Cosh Team:Here he comes. You might be having a 5-0 or whatever you're doing, and then he'd just come bowling out. John Robinson, 10 yards behind him, with a fag in his mouth. I can picture it like it was yesterday. And they'd come, wherever you were, he'd come directly, beeline straight for you. Whatever you're doing, it would just stop, and he'd go right lads get on the line like that and the thing was it wasn't you know nowadays you've got all the templates for running and everything's on you know um calculated and all that it just make it up it would and there was a couple of trees in the training ground right and he literally would go right round that tree and back and it might be a 200 yard run do you know i mean he's he's not measuring anything at all and then you just run around that tree and you just try and make sure you're not in emilies group because he can run forever and he's quick as anything so i'll just try and whenever when whenever he says right two groups one going at a time if i see hess going that way i'll just start sliding

1:12:31The Undr The Cosh Team:i'm sliding in the other direction i want to be in matt elliott's group yeah exactly exactly you want to man mark matt elliott for that or walshy or jerry tags as well they're not great runners but But anyway, so, and he'd be round that tree and back. So you do that. And then he'd go, right, group two, go. And then he'd do that again. And then he'd be looking at, and then he'd be looking around and he'd see another obstacle over there. And he'd be round that and back, like. And so you do like whatever amount of runs and you'd be battered in, battered. And he'd go, right, you deserved your day off.

1:13:03The Undr The Cosh Team:See you Thursday. And then he'd be in again. And then you wouldn't see him until Saturday in the changing rooms.

1:13:11Frank Sinclair:We've had so many pictures, so many stories of people unwrapping the, under the cosh, O 'Neill sportswear shirts over Christmas. I felt like Santa me, you know, like delivering these presents. Like the amount of people who sent photos in, buzzing with them out. Do you think O 'Neill's have won Christmas or not? Yeah, it's like coming when they were the Tamagotchi. Yeah. Just O 'Neill's shirts this year. Well, there it is. Look at it. Beautiful. beautiful and if you want to sort your own team out O 'Neill Sportswear is a place to go 5 a side team 11 a side team minimum of 7 maximum of as many as you want many as you want or as many as you want but the big thing is design to deliver in the the key word there is design that you get to design your own kit put your own touch on it like we said before 1-0 up before you've even kicked off I think they look good to play football in or do whatever you do but also going into the pub you're one of the luck Chris I think you look magnificent one of them pair of jeans pair of trainers job done I tell you who would look nice in them with nothing else a beautiful lady even not you don't have to use the word beautiful but an average looking lady I think would be a beautiful lady wearing one of these I'm not wrong am I it's like a night a nightwear so you can be there at an intimate moment with your missus and you can be thinking of the lads.

1:14:45Frank Sinclair:Yeah. Well, the link's in the description if you want to sort yourself out with an under the costume or sort your team out and get them all kitted out. Maybe you've got a ladies team. You'll have a full 11 beautiful ladies. That'd be tough work for you, wouldn't it? Managing them. I haven't said a word in any of this and I'm just being chucked under the bus last minute. But yeah, the link's in the description. We can't recommend O 'Neill's enough.

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1:16:13Frank Sinclair:Did you know that if you got a result and there was no Tuesday game that the chances were you were getting Monday off? Yeah, there was a bit of that at Villa.

1:16:19The Undr The Cosh Team:Yeah, yeah, it'd give you loads of days off if you're winning, loads of days off. See you, sometimes we'd try and get a see you Wednesday out of him. Not really good result, do you know what I mean? See you Wednesday, gaffer. See you Wednesday, gaffer. Like that, don't take the P, you. Like, do you know what I mean? See you Tuesday, like that. So it was like that.

1:16:40Frank Sinclair:try see Thursday Wednesday

1:16:44The Undr The Cosh Team:no but he would he'd give you he'd give you days off if you deserved it which is brilliant man because you I don't know if you try even harder but it's nice to think if we win this game we might be off to Tuesday innit and then you get somehow you produce a result yeah did you ever get on the bad side of him yeah obviously the biggest one is when he left me out the cup final was that your first season That's my first season. So we get to the cup final. We've got Spurs. So I'm thinking in my head, I've just left the club where I've played in three cup finals in three seasons there. Oh, sorry. Two cup finals in three seasons because I missed the cup in this cup final injured.

1:17:30The Undr The Cosh Team:So I missed that game, but I played every game up until it. I think I missed the semifinal in the final, played every other game, still got a medal. So I thought I'd played my part in that. Obviously, he's played in the League Cup final, won that, played in the FA Cup final the year before that, won that. We get to a cup final in my first season at Leicester. And I've played my part in that. I've played in every round. And we get there. And we go away the week before. I think I didn't go on the trip because that was a trip with Stan Collymore with the old fire extinguisher one. I wasn't there.

1:18:07The Undr The Cosh Team:I wasn't there. I don't know where I was. I think I might have had a game for Jamaica. I think I had an international game for Jamaica. So I was away in Jamaica. I played in a game and I was coming back the same time the team were coming back from being away. So I missed the whole antics of the fire extinguisher, but obviously heard all about it with Big Stan. He was a brilliant, brilliant footballer and a brilliant guy. He fitted right into our group. Probably a little bit too much to be honest, like, do you know what I mean? But yeah, Martin O 'Neill rang me and said, the lads have been sent home from Namanga.

1:18:46The Undr The Cosh Team:Like he says, I don't know what's happened, blah, blah, blah. But he says, as soon as you get back, we need to start preparing for this game, blah, blah, blah. So I come back, there's been murders, it's sorted out. Now we're focusing on the final. And we traveled down the day before the game. I remember distinctly we get to the hotel and we're in the hotel and the gaffer goes, lads, do what you want for the afternoon. We got down quite early. I think we trained really early and we wanted to miss the traffic. So we get down south quite early. I've not been back down for a little while. So he says, you can do what you want for the afternoon.

1:19:27The Undr The Cosh Team:So all the lads checked in our rooms and all that. And I'm going, lads, what are you doing? What are you doing? Blah, blah, blah. and they've worked out there's a cinema across the road so a few lads are going oh we're going to go over there and we're going to go and watch a film or something like that and I'm like nah fuck that I'm not doing that I'm not going to watch a movie I've come down to London I'm not going to watch a movie

1:19:45Frank Sinclair:the thing is they're on best behaviour as well aren't they you're always a bit smug if everybody's in trouble and you're not yeah exactly I can get away with a bit more

1:19:54The Undr The Cosh Team:if I was in the manga there's no way I would have gone to London shopping you know what I mean so I decided I go reception And I says, listen, how long does it take to get into London if I taxi? She said, oh, half hour, 45 minutes max. I've gone, yeah, that'll do me. I've got the afternoon to myself. I know we're not in till six, seven o 'clock for a meal. I've got the day to myself. So I go into London, meet up with a friend. We go and do a bit of shopping. I have a bite to eat while I'm there. So when I decide to go back to the hotel, I'm stuck in traffic coming out of West London and it took me nearly two hours to get back.

1:20:36The Undr The Cosh Team:So I get back quarter past seven. Team meeting was at seven o 'clock. I'm ringing the boys, I'm texting the lads, the couple of the lads have texted me, Andrew Impey, he's texting me, where are you? Boom, boom, boom. I'm saying, just tell him I'm like, yeah, just stall it for us. I'm going to be there soon. I'm thinking I'm going to get there before the meeting starts. As long as I get in before the meeting, happy days like that. I ended up getting there quarter past. No one can stall no more. He gets on and does the team meeting without me. So I walk in the hotel and he's sat in reception. So meeting's done and I'm walking in and I've got bags, carrier bags, I've got bags like that.

1:21:17The Undr The Cosh Team:I'm walking in and I'm thinking to myself, what I probably should have done was fucking ditched them outside and walked in the hotel.

1:21:25Frank Sinclair:You're talking a lot of bags. Julia Roberts.

1:21:27The Undr The Cosh Team:I've got free air. I'm talking Julia Roberts' job. I've got at least four in each hand. Like Harrods bags, do you know what I mean? And I come bowling in. And I'm sure I'm right with this one. The gaffer was sat in reception with whoever the England manager was at the time. King Kev? Can't remember. Something tells me it was Terry Venables.

1:21:57Frank Sinclair:France 98 that was Hoddle

1:21:59The Undr The Cosh Team:that was Hoddle

1:22:00Frank Sinclair:he lost his job after that so whoever came in well Benibals were 96 wasn't he yeah so it would have been brilliant so it would have been Keegan

1:22:08The Undr The Cosh Team:so it must have been Keegan or something I have to clue I can't remember who'd have no it weren't him it weren't him maybe you weren't England manager right maybe you weren't England manager right

1:22:24Frank Sinclair:you fucked us French manager at a hotel. Maybe he wasn't England manager,

1:22:32The Undr The Cosh Team:but he was sat with Terry Venables. That's what I do remember. He sat with Terry Venables in the reception. And I've walked in with these bags and he's just got up and give me a skimful. He's just pointing at me, screaming at me. You're a disgrace, blah, blah, blah. What you've been doing and all that. And I've gone gaffer. I'm sorry. I just went shopping and I'm trying to... He put the bags down. I'm like, yeah, I've dropped the bags, dropped the bags. And I'm trying to explain, but I can't get a word in. He's screaming, he's frothing at the mouth and everything. And I've gone, you know what?

1:23:06The Undr The Cosh Team:I better just get off here. So I've just picked the bags up and I've just walked off, made a beeline to go right. And I swear I've turned around and I've said to him, listen, maybe I might be in the wrong, but you're in the wrong for speaking to me like that in front of him because it's got nothing to do with him. that must have been the worst thing I've ever said in my life. He started screaming more. He started getting louder in the hotel. So I've just picked my bag up and I've walked off. And I remember going back up to my room, obviously all the lads have boomed straight in my room like that.

1:23:38The Undr The Cosh Team:I've gone, I've had a stinker lads. I goes, I'm not playing tomorrow. And the boys are going, don't be stupid. What are you talking about? And big Matt Elliott's in the room. And he's gone, he's gone, now you'll be all right. You'll be all right. Just stay in your room. Boom, boom, boom. You'll be all right. I just had this feeling for the rest of the night, I could hardly sleep. And then we wake up, we always traditionally, whenever we was away, as most teams do, you go the 11 o 'clock walk, then you have breakfast in the morning, you don't really see anybody. I think I might've had breakfast in my room, I didn't want to see the gaffer just in case I bumped into him.

1:24:11The Undr The Cosh Team:And then I come down for the 11 o 'clock walk, I'm in my tracksuit, I come down to the reception, Martin O 'Neill stood over in the corner with Steve Walford and John Robertson and he's gone frank like that. and I've looked up, he's gone, come here, like that, he's given me the old curly finger one, like that, and my heart just dropped. And I just said, yes, Gaffer, he's gone, you're not involved today, and I don't want you on the coach, so you can go home. So I'm thinking, what do I do now? I can't get in my house, because all my family are at Wembley. So I've got my keys. All I've got is my gear and my tracksuit on.

1:24:51The Undr The Cosh Team:so I just got in a taxi and I took a taxi to Kingston so my mate's got a pub and I literally get in this taxi and by 12 12 30 ish I'm outside his pub in Kingston and I walk in and I've got these bags I've got these bags I've got me club tracksuit on I've got these I was bags and I've got my my bag my travel bag like that and i walk in this uh pub that is in and the game's on the big screen and the teams just walked out to go on the pitch like they're out on the pitch and they're seeing it on the big screen and my mate who runs the pub stood behind the bar and he's looked at me and he's looked at the screen and he's turned back around and he's gone what the fuck are you doing here like that and I've gone mate I'll tell you about it just get me a pint so I literally stood in my club tracksuit and watched the game watched the boys get beat 1-0 and I was gutted for the lads because I really wanted them to still win the game um but you like me no top yeah got some decent clubber out of it yeah but it was really expensive because obviously I got done a couple weeks wages and all sorts and all that sort of stuff nearly left the club at that point I thought

1:26:06Frank Sinclair:Can you, Kareemah at Leicester might be over?

1:26:09The Undr The Cosh Team:Totally. After that, we can't mend that in my head. We cannot mend that. And I think my agent spoke to the club and they gave me two or three days off. And then I came in the back end of that week with my agent to see the manager. And I think I'm going in there to talk to him about my exit plan. He had a pop at me. I had a pot bucket in because I said to him, listen, if you'd played me and we won, you wouldn't say fuck all. Do you know what I mean? So that was my argument to it. You didn't have to leave me out. And he's saying, no, you're a disgrace, blah, blah, blah. Which looking back now, I was totally wrong.

1:26:50The Undr The Cosh Team:You can't miss a team meeting, especially one as important as that. Do you know what I mean? So of course I was totally wrong at the point of that happening. But me being a young player and thinking, well, I could have still won you that game. That's what's going through my head. So we had it out. And then after that, it died down. And then I started playing again. And then the rest of that season, my attitude was, I'm going to show you. I'm going to show you what you missed. So I was really good for the rest of that season because I had that edge, that extra edge. And then obviously, we went back the next year and won it.

1:27:30The Undr The Cosh Team:and he gave me that nod that I knew he appreciated that one, I'd stayed and two, the effort I'd put in since that thing because really that could have broke a lot. Any relationship between a manager and player has left me out the biggest game. I've got admiration for him though,

1:27:48Frank Sinclair:for doing it. You know, like putting...

1:27:50The Undr The Cosh Team:Yeah. Looking back at it now, I've been a manager myself and he'd done exactly the right thing because if he lets me play in that, he can lose control of the whole dressing room because if I can get away with that, then what else can other players get away with? So I got it later on in life. Did Stan play?

1:28:08Frank Sinclair:Fire extinguisher Stan?

1:28:09The Undr The Cosh Team:No, he was cup tied. Oh, and Stan? He was cup tied, so he could have... Yeah. Fire extinguisher Stan. He was cup tied. Well, I saw Tags told that story, didn't he? And I obviously weren't there, so I don't know what happened. But all I heard was the whole hotel was a mess because he let off in. It was one of those powdered fire extinguishers that just filled the whole room up or something. So everyone was walking around like snowmen, the people working there and that. They're just all in white. So he absolutely ruined the gaff. Like, do you know what I mean?

1:28:39Frank Sinclair:He said he fitted in at Leicester, but could you see why he's maybe seen as an acquired taste elsewhere? Was he a complex character? I loved Stan.

1:28:47The Undr The Cosh Team:I've gotten so well with him. I was probably one of the closest players to him when he joined Leicester. I accepted him for what he was. He's a little bit different from most people. I'll tell you what, But if he never broke his ankle, the relationship that he was getting, him and Emil Heskey, they were tearing teams apart. And then Stan got there, he broke his ankle and never really recovered from that, how he should have done. And by the time he did get fit, Hesk went to Liverpool. But going back to Stan, the question about Stan, I got really close to him off the pitch as well. You know, stayed at his house and stuff like that.

1:29:20The Undr The Cosh Team:He was a great guy, really misunderstood by certain people. but I liked him and I just respected one his intelligence and two his ability as a footballer was unreal I remember

1:29:33Frank Sinclair:I look at Leicester in two ways was that obviously the O 'Neill thing and then when Taylor took over it just seemed to be all of a sudden be toxic there yeah would that be right just

1:29:44The Undr The Cosh Team:yeah I don't know if it was toxic but I think we just as a football club we lost our way because of Martin O 'Neill leaving Taylor come in and And it was just difficult for him to replace someone with that respect from the players. And I don't think the players bought into what Taylor was going to do. He was a great guy, you know, a brilliant person. But the respect that Martin O 'Neill could look at you and you'd know, you're in trouble here. Do you know what I mean? And you knew to be aware of that. But Peter Taylor didn't have that with the players. And nobody did that, came in after Martin, to be fair.

1:30:23The Undr The Cosh Team:So it was always going to be difficult for whoever took over that situation. We fell apart, you know. We were going into a new stadium. So I think the club had spent 80 million on the Walker Stadium. So we stopped buying players, stopped investing on the pitch because of the money that went into the stadium. That's obviously going to have an impact on the quality of the team that you're putting together. So that coincided with new manager and all that side of it, losing some good players. So that was a big thing. I stuck around with it because I really did believe that we still had enough to get back promoted when we did get relegated and we did at first attempt, but then we got relegated again.

1:31:06The Undr The Cosh Team:And that was the season that I left because of, obviously, all the antics that happened in La Manga the second time. Can we speak about that? Yeah, of course. What was the crack with that? It's a strange one, really, because, again, we always used to go away in like weird times of the season and that. And we chose -

1:31:26Frank Sinclair:Like a bad place to go as well.

1:31:28The Undr The Cosh Team:Yeah, especially what we've had - Especially what we've had there before with the whole stand situation. I was surprised we went back to the manga. I wasn't that, didn't really want to go. Didn't think we needed to go. But we went on this trip anyway. Mickey Adams decided to take us there. And the first day we get there, we walk into reception. We see three girls, three black girls sat down, quite provocatively dressed and didn't really pay no attention to them. We go, we check into our rooms, we go up to our rooms and then we get told that a meal's been organised for the players. So we all go for a meal together.

1:32:10The Undr The Cosh Team:And when we sit down to have this meal, these three girls turn up and sit at a table from there to there. So they're sat there, so they're following us. straight away we know there's something a bit dodgy about this um Stefan Freund starts speaking in German to them so he's obviously heard their lingo and I think their German African descent or whatever it is and Stefan's going nah they're all right they are they're German girls blah blah blah we're not really taking that much notice we're just chatting I think they come and join the end of the table speaking to Stefan few players and that we think they're harmless us we go off to another gaff they come we end up back at the nightclub in the hotel so we go back to the hotel and downstairs is a nightclub so we all pile in there there's some more drinks we should have gone bed to be fair there's some more drinks you can have so this is probably one o 'clock in the morning boom and we go down there we're all sat around drinking blah blah blah the girls are still around the lads having a laugh nothing major and then there's a few arguments between the couple of players and the girls because they're trying to induce players to spend money um I'll put it politely like that and boys ain't having it and then before you know it there's a few arguments they storm off they come back and try and get involved again they get pied off again and next minute like the lads it's about two three in the morning now we've had a couple hours down there we had a skin fall we've got to go up we're training in the morning so we're going up to our rooms somehow they get on our floor knocking on doors trying to get in rooms and the boys are piling them off you know um to cut long story short nothing really happened and then the next morning we get up and we've got some of the lads have got golf some of the lads are training so if you wanted to play golf you could go but if you don't want to play golf you've got a train i'm not a golfer that's an horrendous train that's as bad as it gets yeah exactly

1:34:14The Undr The Cosh Team:you can't blag it that you're a golfer if you're not do you know what i mean so i'm not a golfer so i'm coming down expecting to train a few of the lads are down in the golfing gear and everything like that and we get to reception where we've had breakfast we get to reception and then And Mickey Adams comes over and goes, oh, lads, there's a problem last night. So we're all looking like, what's going on? He's gone, it's serious. Some girls are accusing players of raping him. And I'm like, what are you talking about? So he's gone, but he doesn't explain who the girls were. So in my head, I'm thinking, because boys had split off and gone in their own ways like that, I'm thinking when we left, I'm not even thinking about these girls.

1:34:56The Undr The Cosh Team:I'm thinking when we left like like who weren't with us like that could have been accused of being raped so I'm thinking to myself I know there was a few lads that went off and done their own thing you're Les Ferdinands you're Andrew Impeas and blah blah blah they went off and had a meal somewhere else so I'm thinking oh they ain't got themselves in trouble not even thinking about these and then he explains who the girls are and we're like well that's not happened so what the hell is that all about he goes don't worry we'll sort it out because all the boys are going nothing's happened Gaffa do you know what I mean so he goes away with the reception guy boom and boom next minute the police come back demanding all our passports we're all reluctantly going why do you want our passports like he goes the police just want them so what they've done is the police have got a bunch of passports take them to the girls who have made the complaint in the police station and literally lay them all down and told them to pick who allegedly had done something to them so they're picking players like there was players that they picked that weren't even out do you know what i mean so it was just like this is just the fast this it can't be going on any longer than this so they pick a few lads that weren't even with us on the night out and then they just go 10 or 11 players these lot are the ones that have sexually assorted us or whatever it was and we're looking around going this is crazy so their story was we get them all in a room blah blah blah and thinking about the hotel it's like it's open to the public so if this is happening people in their rooms along the ways would hear something happening for sure so it's not happened they've made it up um you're one of the ten i'm one of the ten so we go down to the police station to make a statement so we're told and when we get there we get arrested and we're put in the cells at the police station and for further inquiries we end up spending the night in there the whole day so now we're thinking this is serious we're overnight all the players are there no one's been to see us or say anything the next morning these two guy a guy and a woman comes in and says we're gonna help the club's got us to represent you and help you get out of this trouble and one day became two days still in the cell still in the cell all of us 11 of us in two cells and we're right next to each other and these are like you know the old school dungeon site type with brick walls with the metal things it's like old school this is this is um so we're in there together like trying to keep our spirits up and laugh about it when we know this is serious like why we've been in there for two days and then um on the third day they come back to us the third morning after saying we would get you'll be out by tomorrow the first day second day you'll be out by tomorrow third day they come and they say right we've got got some good news and some bad news.

1:37:47The Undr The Cosh Team:And they said, the good news is seven of you are leaving. The bad news is three of you have got to stay because they're saying this is actual right by you, you three people. And we're all thinking, who's this gonna be now? Just playing the one of the seven. I was numb by then. I didn't, I just don't know what's going on. I've never been in a prison in my life. Do you know what I mean? So I'm just numb. I'm thinking, what is going on here? I can't believe this is happening to us. So anyway, she reads out the names of the people that can leave. And she says the three people that have to stay, Keith Gillespie, myself and Paul Dickoff, you three have to stay.

1:38:34And I'm thinking, oh my God, what is going on?

1:38:36The Undr The Cosh Team:So the rest of the lads, we're literally hugging each other and they're going, don't worry, we'll get you out of here, blah, blah, blah, and all that side of it. So they leave and then we're in there and then the woman goes out, she comes back and she goes, you're going to now be escorted to a real prison. Now, when we get to the prison, they sit us down, they go, listen, this is big news over here now. You're in every newspaper, you're all over the TV, blah, blah, blah. The people in prison, they're reading stories that three English Premier League players have just raped three girls. so they're going to be after you so you got to be careful we're probably going to have to segregate you from everybody in the prison so he's like okay so they left they put us together to be fair in one cell which was it was a two-bed cell if you imagine bunk beds and they actually got another bunk bed and stuck it on top of that one to make it free so all of us would stay because we'd none of us wanted to be apart from each other so the three of us stayed in this cell and it was like day four I think by day four I think my agent came to see me with my family my mum flew over my sister flew over wife flew over and I remember just going to see him and I sat down opposite him and they all burst out in tears you know I mean I'm the other side of one of those glass things so you can't touch them or anything like that and I just went listen and I'm not bothered what happens here as long as you believe I ain't done nothing.

1:40:09The Undr The Cosh Team:And all three of them says, we know you ain't done this. So as soon as that was said, weight off my shoulders because I know they believe me, I don't care about it and I don't give a fuck about anybody else. And then we went back to prison and then we was there four, five, six, seven days. And then we hear we're getting out today and we've literally been segregated. we've eaten on our own because they don't trust the other prisoners so we've had to eat but then the other prisoners are getting the hump with us because we're eating before them which means they got to take longer to get their food so now they're starting to throw stuff at you and anytime they get an opportunity to do spit at you or whatever they're doing anything they can because they you know we're spoiling their routines or whatever it might be and then it wasn't until the day before we were leaving that we got let out into the normal uh people around because they're starting to get wind of hang on these girls are prostitutes they've been done before blah blah blah um they tried it on with another team uh in in spain as well so now it's got wind that actually yeah it's unraveling so now they're they're all right with us so they've said we think you'll be all right when you go out so we go out into the normal thing still be a bit yeah it was a bit wary um but they start just asking questions only a couple of people can speak english but like there's a gathering of like 25 guys around you and then one's asking him to ask us like what happened blah blah blah so we're telling the story and then he's translating it back to them and then they're going ah see see so they're understanding what's going on so then they were fine with us you know i mean we we didn't have a problem after that then the next day we get told you'll be out today we don't know why we go to the court and we find out that the girls have done a runner so instead of facing the court thing they've got their asses out of spain back to germany or wherever they went never to be seen again they didn't want to take it any further because they knew it was unraveling that who they were and what they were all about some people were doing their investigations on them we didn't know this at the time but outside people are starting to be thorough about what what they were all about um and then so they knew that it wasn't going to go much further it was a harsh lesson to learn about leaving yourself in vulnerable situations with people that you don't know um that was the biggest thing for me that i took away from it um career

1:42:44Frank Sinclair:family just all those yeah everything and obviously i left lester i mean my agent was negotiating a

1:42:50The Undr The Cosh Team:new contract at Leicester at the time because I was out of contract that year and obviously those conversations stopped because off the back of that you know I think I was thrown under the bus myself and Keith Gillespie were thrown under the bus and it was almost like it was because of us it happened which was rubbish we was out as a team and we stayed as a team all night and then we went back to our hotel which we're quite entitled to do which every team does so we were thrown under the bus by the football club feel like down yeah 100 100 especially when everyone knows you ain't done nothing because they're there do you know what i mean so they've seen it as you've thrown the club in is it district yeah yes where what would be done and which was funny enough well paul dickhoff who was in the prison for the same time as us came back and started playing again I didn't play for a good four or five weeks so I was given to Steve Cottrell me me and Keith Gillespie Steve Cottrell was a coach and he had to look after us so the boys were training in the morning we had to turn up in the afternoon train on our own with Steve Cottrell he would run us I think he had the instructions to try and break us as best as he could by Mickey Adams, right?

1:44:15The Undr The Cosh Team:Because he told me that later on. And there was no sort of like any type of aftercare with us, how we felt about the whole situation, how that had damaged us as individuals. There was none of that from the football club. And then I kept my head down and I just worked and worked and worked. the results weren't getting any better I was in a relegation battle and then Mickey Adams called me back into the team for the last couple of games and I play in them and I think he had no choice really because they were struggling that much and I think I played the last two or three games and we still got relegated it was too late anyway but I just felt like really let down by Mickey Adams especially him being the manager you know what what got me was the fact that he left the country and left us behind.

1:45:08The Undr The Cosh Team:I couldn't get that because I've been a manager and I know how the manager has to lead the team. But if my boys are in that situation, I ain't leaving the country without them. And I'm making a stand. I'm keeping my team there. And I might end up getting a sack off the back of this because I make this decision. But I'm telling whoever I have to tell at Leicester, we are not going without them because they ain't done anything. and that's what I would have stood by and I was just disappointed by the club and especially Mickey Adams the fact that he left us in the lurch.

1:45:45Frank Sinclair:Was there a thing? Oh, it's not funny at all, but did Scowcroft and Walker get mixed up? Yeah. Is that that incident?

1:45:52The Undr The Cosh Team:Both blonde, both blonde-eared, didn't they? Like, obviously Walk's, Walk's hair was, no, what happened was, it wasn't Scowcroft and Walker's, there's a story about Scowcroft. It was Stefan Freund and Ian Walker, right? Ian Walker didn't come out. Stefan Freund was out because he's German, isn't he? He's talking to the girls. But they both got long blonde hair. So they picked Walk out, Walks out, and said, and thought that was Stefan Freund. But they don't look the same, but they've just got the same blonde hair. scowcroft got pulled into it because he was just pulled out as one of the things but one of the funny things was with scurry amongst all this madness that's going on with scurry was one of the seven lads that got released and when the woman came in to tell us about it we've been told that we had to put up a bond of 70 000 euros so it was a sticky situation and then when the seven of us got when the seven got told that they were being released and the three of us were there all the lads are hugging us like i touched on and saying don't worry about it you'll be out soon blah blah blah and scully's just walked off over to the bird that was in the in the uh that was meant to be representing us and he said excuse me by the way am i going to get my 70 grand back like that that's all you're bothered about that's all you're bothered about you can laugh about it now

1:47:30Frank Sinclair:excuse me love

1:47:31The Undr The Cosh Team:yeah exactly I'm on the floor mate Matty Ellick's picking me off the floor and Scoey's gone said that and when you think at the time it didn't even register but when you think back and we all talked about it when we got out what about Scoey by the way We started slaughtering him from then.

1:47:50Frank Sinclair:We're having a break to talk about our very, very good friends at NordVPN. Apparently sign-ups are going through the roof, by the way. Are they? You know, with this new legislation. Mm-hmm. To Norway. Holland, he's on now. Oh, is he? He was in a pair of clogs when I picked him up yesterday. Got a couple of tulips in me. But if you don't know what NordVPN is, well you can vouch your location to anywhere in the world which is Andy now if you want to watch sports mainly you know maybe it's on in other countries or there's a series you want to watch not available in this country or you're abroad and you want to catch up on uh so you might uh yeah they had a they had a joke yeah they were just back to me um my mother Alas's mum and dad they're in Benidorm at minute and you know what they watched Corridale Monday night Corridale When two giants come together.

1:48:47Frank Sinclair:What do you mean? At the same time? Yeah, they interacted on an episode. Obviously, they didn't go in the Spanish hotel. NordVPN, they both hustled around the phone. 10 o 'clock Sunday night in Benidorm, because it's an hour in front. And while they were watching it, didn't have to worry about anybody tapping into the bank details or the passwords or anything, because with NordVPN, you've got that extra, extra security as well. Stops anybody getting in, nicking out. Have you got an offer, Chris? Of course we've got an offer. We've always got an offer. All you've got to do is follow the link in the description, nordvpn.com slash kosh, and you get a heavy, heavy discount.

1:49:25Frank Sinclair:Super heavy discount. Plus a 30-day money back, no risk guarantee. I can't imagine anybody using NordVPN for a few days and going, it's not for me, this. Get downloaded. The world moves fast. Your workday? Even faster. Pitching products, drafting reports, analyzing data. Microsoft 365 Copilot is your AI assistant for work. Built into Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and other Microsoft 365 apps you use. Helping you quickly write, analyze, create, and summarize. So you can cut through clutter and clear a path to your best work. Learn more at Microsoft.com slash M365 Copilot. Start your day with Quaker Protein Instant Oatmeal.

1:50:13Frank Sinclair:The instant oatmeal ready to help you tackle whatever your day brings. Like wrinkling your toddler into their car seat. That was fun. Coaching your sixth grader's soccer team. Go girls! And carrying all the groceries in one trip. Try Quaker Protein Instant Oatmeal, Granola, and Bars. Great taste and a good source of protein. Quaker. Bring out the good. I'm trying to think how many lads we've had who've been to a World Cup. 98? Yeah. Is it? Yeah. 28 caps for Jamaica. Yes. Was that from your mum or dad's side?

1:50:52The Undr The Cosh Team:Both. Both are Jamaican. All right. Yeah. My mum's born in Jamaica. She came over in the Windrush 60s. Yeah. Made her life for herself over there as a student. I just ended up working in the hospitals for over 30 years. So done really well for herself. And we've always been proud Jamaicans. I've been going to Jamaica since I was really young. Obviously, growing up, I always wanted to play for England. That was a dream like everybody else's dream. Do you know what I mean? I didn't really get the opportunity as an England youth to get games for them. and it's kind of got to when I sort of like that time when it started to get really successful for Chelsea and we're winning things and stuff and I'm still not getting looking and I'm thinking to myself, there's some good players, don't get me wrong, you're Gary Nevels and people that are a little bit younger than me have got in the team and there's some good full-backs and centre-halves playing for England, but I thought I was as good as them.

1:51:51The Undr The Cosh Team:And the Jamaica have been knocking on the door for a while? I had interest, I'd heard interest. Obviously, I knew that a few players had started to go over that were English born, but started representing them, the likes of Fitzroy Simpson, Dion Burton and Paul Hall. But the manager sort of like rang me and basically invited me to, well, first of all, he rang to see if I would be interested in playing. And I said, yeah, possibly. But then he said, I think that the squad's good enough to qualify. So I'm only going to call you if we qualify for the World Cup. I don't want you to play in any qualifiers.

1:52:33The Undr The Cosh Team:And I thought that was a bit of a strange one because what about the lads that have got Jamaica to the World Cup? Do you know what I mean? So anyway, I kept my eye on it. And as soon as they qualified, he ran me back and literally said, I'm coming to England. I'm coming to watch Chelsea v Derby. So I says, okay, I'll see you with Chelsea. Do you know what I mean? So he came to the game. I had a really good game that day. and he just said, I want you to be a part of our squad, blah, blah, blah. My big question behind me was, wow, this is a, my big thing at the time was what an opportunity to play in France at night, yeah, World Cup, unbelievable.

1:53:10The Undr The Cosh Team:But then in the back of my mind, I'm just keep thinking to myself, someone's missing out for me to go. This is the original John Terry, isn't it?

1:53:17Frank Sinclair:Yeah.

1:53:19The Undr The Cosh Team:Someone's missing out for me to go. So I'm thinking like, how's that going to work? Do you know what I mean? How am I going to be received? by the rest of the squad or even, you know, whatever. And then he just explained, he said, listen, this World Cup is bigger than any individual that's playing in it. He said, this is about the country and this is about us representing the country in the best possible way. And he said, the players, whether they play or not, will all benefit from the World Cup. So he says, because it puts us on the map, players will start to get opportunities all around Europe to create and he was right when you think about ricardo gardner for example after that world cup he got moved to bolton for two and a half million quid unbelievable player that i noticed at the time but he would never have been seen if it weren't for us qualifying for that world cup and the interest that came with that so i got what he's saying so i took to it and i went okay i'll come over so i came over and i think my first call up was for the gold cup didn't know much about it but it was CONCACAF and it was in America and we were going to play Brazil, USA and Mexico, three games, my first three games for them in one tournament in the CONCACAF Gold Cup and I'm thinking wow first game for Jamaica was against Brazil, I'm playing against Denilson who's the most expensive player in the world at the time, it was from Real Betis, I'm marking him right back, he's playing left wing and they beat us 1-0, but we'd done all right in the game.

1:54:53The Undr The Cosh Team:And it was a great trip and we'd done well against Mexico and that as well. So I just thought, yeah, this is a bit of me, this. So I thought, yeah, let's go for it. And the players that seemed to look like they weren't going to get in the squad still took to us as well. So they obviously had been told and And they knew the script that if they qualified that they're probably going to bring in some so-called better players, you know, to replace them. And they still were fine with us. You know, some of the lads that they were brilliant lads and they still worked their socks off in the squads, even though knowing that they probably weren't going to go.

1:55:33The Undr The Cosh Team:So we had to fully respect that as well. And it was a brilliant decision because France night, you know, it was an incredible, you know, thing to be a part of, to play in the World Cup. I played in all three games. And, you know, even though obviously we took a hiding off Argentina, lost 5-0, Batistuta scored a hat-trick. We were playing against one of the top teams in the world. We still done okay in the game and we knew that. Croatia was the second game. We lost 3-1 narrowly. We was 1-1 at halftime. And then they scored from a corner directly. So we lose that game 3-1, but we really were competitive in that.

1:56:15The Undr The Cosh Team:And then we beat Japan and we beat Japan 2-0. So to go away from the World Cup on three points because you beat Japan, we just changed the narrative of football in Jamaica and the respect that. It's been great going back. Oh, when we went back, it was unbelievable. We flew back into Jamaica and the airport must have had 100 ,000 people there to greet us, to come back. We were like heroes. and the build up to it as well, like playing in the CONCACAF competition, going around the world and playing against the best teams to prepare for the World Cup. I just, it was things that happened that I've seen in my life that wouldn't have happened if I didn't.

1:56:57The Undr The Cosh Team:So I thoroughly enjoyed it and then I carried on playing for, I think my last game for Jamaica was 2000 and I think it was 2004 and we played Brazil at the Walker Stadium. And that was my last game. And I played against Ronaldo, R9. He played up front for him. They beat us one there. In your pocket. Yeah. I've done all right in that game. I've done all right. But, you know, just to say that you've played against R9 was unbelievable. I played against Brazil three times in my career. So I played in two Gold Cups. And then I played in a friendly at Walker Stadium. and in those three games, Danilson, the most expensive player in the world, R9 and Romario in the Rose Bowl in America in front of 120 ,000 people.

1:57:51The Undr The Cosh Team:So, you know, these are the things that are unbelievable experiences. So I loved it.

1:57:56Frank Sinclair:I remember that story of Jamaica as well in the 98 World Cup. I heard a Jamaica shirt.

1:58:00The Undr The Cosh Team:Yeah, we was everyone's second team. Yeah. We was everyone's second team. I got them on the back. Sorry, mate. Did you? Yeah, I bet you did. They were some player, Bibby. And it's really funny, actually, because Chris Powell was pushing to get in the squad and he's playing in the Premier League for Derby at the time. Really good player. Ricardo Gardner kept Chris Powell out of that squad. Chris Powell ends up playing for England, which is incredible. But that just shows how good Bibby was.

1:58:29Frank Sinclair:Do you know when you went back from France 98 to Jamaica, did you just go back for a party? because it's only 50 minutes from Paris to London, you know, to get home. You just think, fuck it. I want to see the celebration.

1:58:42The Undr The Cosh Team:You've got to go back. I've got to be a part of those celebrations. It's the most, like, you speak to any Jamaican person and the two most talked about things in sport is probably Jamaica, getting to a World Cup and then all the achievements of... Usain. Usain Bolt. Yeah, that's the next thing. And, you know, I've been out with Usain in Manchester before because he's really good friends with Ricciardo Gardner. So I've been in his company before and he's calling me a legend because he watched me play in the World Cup. And I'm going, nah, mate, you're the legend, do you know what I mean? Sort of thing.

1:59:21The Undr The Cosh Team:But he remembers distinctly saying, I remember watching you. I was about, I don't know, 12 or something like that. And I'm watching you play in the World Cup, Sinclair on your back. and he's going, I was just besotted by it all and all that sort of stuff. And he's talking to me like that. So that just shows how big it was at the time. It's in the memory of probably the most famous person ever to come out of Jamaica.

1:59:43Frank Sinclair:Tell you what, laying it all out on the table, mate. It's some career. It's a bit of a rollercoaster, isn't it?

1:59:48The Undr The Cosh Team:Yeah, up and downs. Learned so much from it. I'm glad that I use that experience now to try and help younger players that are coming through now. there's not much that I haven't seen so yeah I'll try and give that back to the players and make sure definitely they don't make the same mistakes I made but obviously I think I can use that as a good something good to come out of some bad situations if the ball comes in the box get your head on it head it head it head it mate don't leave it for someone else don't put your shorts down don't put your shorts down don't head but referees Don't end fuck refs, yeah.

2:00:28The Undr The Cosh Team:That's another one. Trying.

2:00:30Frank Sinclair:Who was the best drinker in that Sunday team at Leicester? As you've got some big...

2:00:36The Undr The Cosh Team:Yeah.

2:00:37Frank Sinclair:You've got some big candidates.

2:00:38The Undr The Cosh Team:There were some... I couldn't pick... I couldn't pick between Jerry Taggart, Steve Walsh and Matt Elliott. Big lads. And Neil Lennon on the... I've never seen anyone drink so much Guinness. I don't know where he used to put it because you know Guinness is filling, isn't it? I used to have two pints of Guinness and I'm like, I'm done for the night. You know what I mean? I'm full. And Neil Lennon could go through eight, nine pints of Guinness. I think the very first Sunday, the Sunday club that I joined, I got a pint. Jerry Taggart got it for me because I remember that. Jerry Taggart got it. I got in there, just squeezed in just in time so I didn't have to do a shot as soon as he turned up, which is a good thing.

2:01:25The Undr The Cosh Team:and then Jerry Taggart put a pint down. He's gone, here Cinco, here's your pint. Like that. So I went, oh, top man. So I had a sip of it like that and I put it back down and Tags put his down and it was empty. And I looked at him and I looked at him and then he's just sat down and then someone's gone to get him another pint. And I'm thinking to myself, I've only just touched that. So now I'm trying to drink at the pace of them, which I just can't do. They're banging down nine, 10 pints. And I'm on my second and third struggling badly because I'm not, I just don't, I don't particularly like beer anyway.

2:02:02The Undr The Cosh Team:Don't particularly taste nice. Do you know what I mean? It's just a cheap way of obviously having a good time in it. Like, but yeah, there was some good drinkers and some good, like we sat around and spoke football all day. Do you know what I mean? We'd talk about football. It wasn't just, we just sit there. We'd talk about how we're doing, what can we do better? Who's playing shit? Do you know what I mean? who's got to liven up and it was just all football related all the way through so it was it was great company for each other good times definitely almost like a

2:02:34Frank Sinclair:Martin O 'Neill team tactics talk then weren't it yeah not just a piss up

2:02:38The Undr The Cosh Team:yeah you'd get fine Martin O 'Neill knew that you didn't go out with the lads you'd get fine for not going out seriously you'd get in trouble for not going that's what you want from your manager yeah definitely

2:02:50Frank Sinclair:top man Frank top man first thank you very much really appreciate it really enjoyed it yeah thanks a lot it's been great thank you for having us

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