Jason Cundy | The Art Of Winding Up Fans | Feud With Alan Sugar | Spurs & O’Hara | Undr The Cosh

29:40yeah or your mom's best friend family members friends and all that yeah would it be something that you can't go to Tottenham? Well, look, you grew up as a Chelsea fan hating Spurs. That's how it is. They hate us. We hate them. And it still is. It's alive and well.

30:02But basically, Chelsea made their choices, and I had to make mine. And as a fan, as all fans, we have this idea that football clubs are, you know, they all let us down, don't they? You know, with ticket prices or the way they treat us or the way they're selling players or sort of a manager. They all let us down. But actually, when you're in the inside, you learn quickly that it's a ruthless industry and you are literally, it doesn't matter that I support Chelsea all my life. It doesn't matter I wanted to play for Chelsea. It doesn't matter my only dream was to ever stay at the football club. It didn't matter to Ken Bates.

30:41It didn't matter to him. What mattered, that Spurs made an offer, He wanted to accept it and he wanted me to go. Well, then you have to learn very quickly that those choices sometimes are taken out of your hands. It's not right now. Players now have far more control over their career. You can't force a player out of a club. And I was young and I got literally, you had no time to think. My head was spinning. But that was the decision and Terry made me feel welcome, I suppose. And that was Chelsea. Porters didn't. Batesy wanted me gone. Terry wanted me to sign. and you've got to go where you wanted, not where you're not wanted.

31:18And can you remember, obviously, you don't have to disclose it, but was the contract at Tottenham far better than the one at Chelsea? Yeah. Yeah, that was, yeah. But that, but I later... Makes it a bit more sweet, doesn't it? Well, it always softens the blow. Yeah. It always softens the blow. But what I did find out, the reason Chelsea gave me a five, four and a half year contract, you don't know these things at the time. But one of the reasons that Spurs apparently were showing interest back in the November before I signed the contract. Right. And you think, okay, you give me, you know, most contracts three and a half years, you know, I signed the November, so that was back into that season and three more.

31:57They gave me an extra year. I think that was probably to secure a fee or certainly tie me into a situation where they had lots of control. Yeah. But you don't know that at the time. Was Terry Vanderbilt on time, by the way, for your meeting? what have I been late today no no we had somebody on who that was Frank right was it not Frank I don't think it was Frank someone was going to sign for Tottenham right agreed to meet at a hotel with Venables and he was half an hour late right so he didn't sign right he may oh really like that was it oh right I don't remember that no and I think he turned up with the attitude of you want to sign anyway you want to sign for me why do you want to sign for me or do you want to play for me sorry oh really and all that so he fucked it off oh really well I saw him so he must have been on time oh the contact with that good you didn't give a fuck he was there nah it sounds come on you want Terry can I just clarify as well I meant her cousin not your cousin it's going to blow my mind that whole life so did Eric do the deal then no John Hollings did yeah yeah John Hollings I didn't know Eric I know Eric but I didn't know him if that makes sense I didn't any bitterness go on Chrissie I've done you a few times did you have a conversation with Ken Bates at all like during this period did you?

33:13No and you know what I always got on very well with Batesy and it probably would have been when I retired that I bumped into Batesy afterwards and every now and then he's still seen around Stamford Bridge and I've got a lot of time for Ken and the first time I saw him we hugged one another it's like how are you you know I've got no ill feeling to him because that's football that's business that's how football works I've got no I don't hold any umbrage with him or the club or porters, God rest his soul, but I've got no real feeling about anything because that's, as you grow, as you get older in football, you grow up and you learn, it's a horrible business.

33:51It's a really, the financial side of football is the, fans don't see it. Fans only see the players, you know, the wages they get to hear about. But when you're on the inside and you are literally a piece of meat that can be sold or made profit from or your value has fallen there for the club when they get rid of you, So that's the science. I've got no problem with Batesy at all. So I imagine, so this is obviously March. I imagine it took till the summer when you probably sat on a sun lounge and you're already thinking, fuck me, I've just signed for Tottenham. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you go from one dressing room, obviously from all my mates.

34:27I've been there since I was 11, grew up in the academy, resis, first teams. It was my second home. It still is, actually. I'm very lucky. It's my second home. and to then go to Spurs, you know, I played at Spurs many times, but to then go there and go training, it was very odd. Really, very strange scenario. You know, you've got new teammates. There were a couple of lads I kind of knew, Justin Ennebra. God rest his soul as well. I got to know very well with Steve Sedgley. Paul Stewart was there at the time. Kasky? Did you know Kasky? Yeah, I know Kasky was on your show. Kasky was younger than me.

35:01Yep. Kasky was in the youth team. Obviously, Sol Campbell come through at that time as well. But I make friends quite easily. I'm not, you know, and I got on well with a lot of the boys. A bit in the straight way. Yeah, I did, yeah, yeah, yeah. But that back end of the season, March till the end of the season, so that was last Thursday in March, so it was about seven or eight games maybe, maybe-ish, and then the season broke, and then I went away on holiday, and then come back, and that's really where the disaster started. Going into the dressing room, the lads are not arsed, have they? The lads are not arsed.

35:36No, they don't care. They know the crap. No, no. I got on really well with Naeem as well. People that you play against that you don't know, some of them are different stages of their career. Gazza was there at that time because Gazza, the move that he was going to go to Lazio, the knee injury picked up. So Gazza was finishing his rehab. But I knew Gazza from years before from a family I met when I was on holiday as a kid. who used to babysit Gaza. What a hardy horse. Yeah, how bizarre is that, right? And I met, so I went to, so I was in the Chelsea's youth team and I met this fan from Newcastle with young kids and me and my mates were both playing in the academy at the time and they got to chat and said, we know Gaza, it's Paul Gascoigne.

36:23I'd heard of this kid, right? Yeah, I've heard of him. And then Newcastle played Wimbledon at Plough Lane. I don't think it was the Vinnie Jones. I don't think it was that one. It was a night game. And I went up, but I knew you'd heard of this kid Gazza, right? This was before Gazza was Gazza. Yeah. And I went up and went to go and watch him play at Plough Lane. So I lived in Wimbledon. So Plough Lane, for me, is a 15-minute walk from my mum and dad's house. But they kept in contact. The family came down to watch the game and they got me tickets. So I thought, I'm going to watch this kid Gazza, right?

36:59So he'd have been young. well, he was the best player on the pitch. I'm not just saying that. He was. And, you know, I'm watching again. Because back then, you never used to watch all the games. There was no social media. You heard, but you didn't know. But this kid, Gazza, and I watched him throughout the game. I'm like, you know, this kid is, we are talking about a serious young footballer. You've got half a chance this life. And then afterwards, so funny. So afterwards, we came out and I was with the family. And Gazza came out. and it was the first time I met Gaza and I would have been, I reckon I was 17 and then you fast forward four years, five years.

37:39I've joined Spurs and Gaza's there and I played against Gaza a few, obviously, because, you know, the Chelsea played against him and I went up and spoke to him and he remembered meeting me, which was like, oh my God, you remember, yeah. But he remembered that particular day and our paths crossed bizarrely years later at Spurs but then of course he never played for Spurs again because his transfer to Lazio went through on the back end of that 92 season. I remember Cass telling us and it was a bit of a bombshell that Sedgley was more of a nutcase than Gascoigne. Oh, Sedg. Oh, Sedg was one of my best mates.

38:15Oh yeah. Well, you want stories, don't you? Funny. Yeah, Sedg. So me and Sedg clicked straight away. I actually played with Sedg at Spurs and eventually we both played together at Ipswich. And yeah, I've been on holiday with Sedg been to New York with Sedg been to Ibiza with Sedg been to did he come to Mustagdu he come to Mustagdu to Dublin yeah I think have you got enough from Cas alright Cas can tell you all you need to know I think I've seen that where Cas was talking about Sedg and Sedg is yeah Sedg was him and Gaz are by the counts before I turned up but they used to just egg one another arm didn't you tell me about where Sedg Did you just eat the things out the toilet?

39:02The urano cakes? Yeah, he used to eat them. Did he tell you about that? He said he used to chew them up. And swallow it up. I don't know. Do you need that? Is that naughty? I'm a celebrity. Yeah. You want a meal for, lads? Yeah, he said he used to pick them up, chew them. That's dangerous when you've got two of them. You know, when it gets to outdoing each other. Yeah, egging on. Yeah. Yeah, I think your Sedge was, yeah, very fond of Sedge. How was Alan Sugar to deal with? Well, I mean, I never really got to know Alan Sugar because he was the owner. He didn't spend any time with us. But when he sacked Terry Venables, you remember that Terry Venables and him, they were in a business meet or some business thing fell apart.

39:53It was towards the end of a season. I can't remember what year. was it 93, I think? And he sacked Terry Venables. And Terry Venables went, I think he took him to court. It was a really messy court case, really horrible. And months later, there was this war going on publicly. I can remember it being in press, weren't it? It was terrible stuff. And there was this war going on between Terry Venables and Nana Sugar. Are you Team Sugar or Team Venables? That was how it felt. It was kind of quiet. Yeah, I think it was a little bit like that at that time, right? And so this Saturday morning I woke up and the flat I was living in where you just get all the papers delivered.

40:37And the papers had come through the front door and I'd go down there. And I'd pick it up and all of the newspapers, in particular the Red Tops, all backsplash, remember the sun. there's a photograph of me and a photograph of Andy Gray, who used to be at Palace, Venice Ball, Andy Gray, who used to be at Palace, midfielder. And there was one or two other players and the headline was waste of money. Right? There's a pair of us. I've seen her. What the fuck is this? Jesus Christ. So, as I've read it, Alan Sugar is now using, he's weaponized me and Andy Gray and one or two other players that Venner's had signed that hadn't quite worked out.

41:22And he's now using us in a way to get to the message across the fans. Well, Terry Venner was fucked up. He bought this plan and that. That didn't work. That's why we got rid of him, right? And I'm reading it. And he absolutely slaughtered us. Completely slaughtered us, right? And I'm a player at the club. So is Andy Gray. There were two other lads who I can't remember. But he is absolutely, the backsplash. But it was over all the newspapers. Not just one. It was over all the back pages. And we're playing, I've got, you know, as a player, you're duty bound to go to the games and watch the first team.

41:54That was, you know, you're expected to do that. And I'm reading that and I'm like, this is just, he's slaughtered us. And I'm like, last thing I want to do is get a shower, get a suit, get changed, drive to North London and go and watch Spurs play. And I'm there and I'm like, what do I do? Do I go? Do I not go? And I'm like, no, I've got to go. I cannot. I have to face the music at some stage. I've got to face people at some stage. For as embarrassing, as humiliating as I felt at that time, I'm like, I've got to go. I can't. I can't. I can't. I can't. So I drove. And the reason I'm saying I think it's Benny Knight is I remember speaking to Paul Park, and I think he was at Benny Knight at the time, I'm pretty sure he was.

42:39And when I got to the club, everyone, it was such a weird scenario because everyone's seen it. you know it's like a waste of money it's like I mean he might have had a point right I'm not saying that I'm wrong right at that particular time right right I'm not it's okay but it was the way it was delivered right and you think Jesus Christ I've got so I thought no fuck it I'm going to go in I'm so glad that I went because you know you've got to face it whenever it was written I got no control over that it's his opinion it told you a little bit about how bitter it was that I was used as a pawn. But get this.

43:21Come out the tunnel, changing room, and there was a lift in reception at Spurs. I don't even remember the old Spurs. Never were. So, right, so I, then, so there was a box that the ex-players or the injured players, the injured players would go and watch the game in, right? So I pressed, I'm waiting in the lift, and there were only little small lifts, only little small lifts there, so I'm going to go up to another floor. I pressed the, sitting there waiting about half hour, 40 minutes till kick off, doors open who's in the lift? Alan Sugar Alan Sugar is standing there and I look up and our eyes meet and it's as I'm standing there I'm like I am so fucking glad I came in today that I didn't sit at home moping, feel sorry for myself and I got in the lift, it's only a tight lift It wasn't big at all, like maybe five, six people, if that.

44:16And I got in. There's just me and him in the lift. The door was closed. Not a word was spoken. Not one word was spoken between the pair of us. And I remember standing there and I, maybe looking back, should I have said something? Should he have said, I don't know. But the fact that I got him, I looked him in the eyes, he would have probably been the last person he expected to see getting in the lift. And I got in that lift with him. and it was such a weird feeling. You've slaughtered me on the back pages of all the national papers and now I'm standing, you know, half a foot away from you and I got out and, but I've got no problem with him.

44:54That's football. You know, we had to do what we had to do. If I met Alan now, I wouldn't have a problem with him at all. It's just how it out. I think I'm going behind him and breathing down his ear. You know, just, he's in the back of his, not saying out, I think that'd be worse. just to look as if he hasn't addressed it either as if he's just stayed quiet didn't say I would now I don't know whose job it was to say anything I mean we locked up I couldn't believe it it's like this is it's like if you'd planned it if you'd planned this particular moment who do you want in the lift I'd probably say I don't really want to see Alan Sugar but the fact that it was him in the lift and our eyes locked and I just got in and didn't say a word and then I got out.

45:40It's like, it's, I don't know, I know he's a bit of a bullshy old, you know, you know what, but I'm pretty sure he would have felt a bit uncomfortable. Yeah. Pretty sure. You'd like to think a little bit of sweat, wouldn't you? Yeah, Just a, well, I was waiting for your fire, but that, yeah.

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47:48Oh, and room service to feel like. Because at Hilton, hospitality feels like. Your cabana's ready. Would you like fresh towels? It matters where you stay. book now at Hilton.com Hilton for this day Straight away did you get injured pretty much straight away when you got Spurs? Well I joined Spurs 92 that first season I played the first I don't know how many games but I wasn't playing well I knew I wasn't playing well and then I picked up a knee injury November, December I think and I had an operation keyhole operation on my right knee and And I just, it wasn't, it wasn't, I wasn't right. I wasn't right.

48:34I didn't, it just didn't feel right. One or two games didn't go. And I was, I was struggling. I could feel myself struggling, but then the knee injury come along. And then the back end of that season, which would have been 92, 93, I picked up a back injury, which on the back of the knee, and I wasn't training. I couldn't train, couldn't get fit, couldn't stay fit, couldn't I missed a lot of football at the back end of that season they did say the medical team said look have a rest the back injury should rest over the summer which I did and then come back and I did a whole pre-season actually and that was obviously his first pre-season was Steve Perriman and I did a whole pre-season and then two weeks I think or week and a half before the season started we're doing a little um circle rondo where you know you chase the ball and my back went and it disabled me to the point that I couldn't get off the floor.

49:25My back went. This pain shot through my legs, through my back. And I was completely disabled on the floor. Couldn't move. And I was scared. I thought, what is this? This has just come from that, from just one quick movement. And I went down and I couldn't move. And then the medical team had to come over. It was so bad. There was a port cabin near the car park where the training ground was, the old Spurs training ground, Page Lane. And they had to help. So they had to put their arms around me. And I'm trying to get across. And the pain, I couldn't tell you, was so bad it worried me. Then the numbness started to subside.

50:10And I started to feel a bit better. But the pain was just ridiculous. And this thing kept on for, well, I was out for, All of that season, I didn't play once, wasn't fit at any point throughout that period with Aussie. And I come back on the training again, and it's got to a stage where I'm obviously now worried. I don't think I'm going to play again. And I went off the rails. I went, there was a period throughout that summer, that summer 93, 94 season. and throughout that back end of that time I was living I was living just off the King's Road in Chelsea where I was living on my own I split my girlfriend I must have been a disaster to live with because I was so worried about my future and I did come to the I didn't think I'd play again and I went off the rails I would go out pretty much every night anyone that wanted to meet for a drink anyone that would want to go out and party anyone that would want to go out and to nightclub um i knew i wasn't going to train next day i know i know i wasn't going to play next saturday i know i wasn't going to play in three months because it i was this injury was and by the way went undiagnosed i was just going to say undiagnosed they didn't know what was wrong and i was doing in i was i was they had scans on my back and for the first six months i was doing exercises this is a joke this is a joke that were making my as i found out later making the situation worse I had a I had well I had scoliosis which is a curvature of the spine which was eventually seen but the problem was I had a bulging disc the bulging disc sits out one side and sits and touches the nerve and I would go through I would drive to North London before I lived in Chelsea and I'd drive to North London and I'd get out the car and me trying to straighten up to get out the car would take a couple of minutes just to just to get from the back or the hangover it was the both no the hangover made it better that was the weird thing you know old grandpa's old medicine dancing at two o 'clock in the morning i'll be able to train today i could dance i don't worry about that but i it's you know it's a it was a cocktail of me young money knowing i had no real um responsibilities and I went off the rails I it was a dangerous time for me and looking back very frightening that that and Spurs the medical team back then they were a bunch of cowboys absolute charlatans didn't you know they they they had no in the in the medical industry there is this thing about I'm always right I don't know if you've seen much of this I don't know it's still physio i'm always right you know you've got this you've got that right and these these these physios at that particular time were the clowns absolute jokers and everyone does a pop at darren anderson about calling him signal right i i i know those physios so there's a reason why he was called that because those clowns didn't know what they were doing and there was this one physio i'm not going to name names of some you know i've got to let it go but they know they are but this one particular time with my back um i he put he put um there was a broom right and he held this broom from the bottom of my spine up now what most brooms you'd do you'd expect to come out the top of the head right and he put this and he followed my spine and it come out here it's broom come out here and he laughed he's laughing and he's getting picked have a look at this have a look at this look at this look at his look at his look where the broom comes out all right you're a physio a premier league football club you you're you're finding my back funny that i've been out for x amount of months and you'll you think this is this is funny and i had many rows with them and i'd i'd i'd lost the you know i'd had so many i'd i had no trust in them and i didn't know where my career was going and i had no idea what my life looked like beyond the contract that I had and I couldn't see myself ever getting fit so I then went to go and see it got to a stage it was where obviously this is shit for everyone Spurs me everyone this is a terrible scenario for everyone I'm not just saying it was bad for me it's bad for them and I then said well I've got to go they said we need an operation right I said okay so I went to going to see three different surgeons.

54:56At least one of the surgeons I went to go visit. No representation from Spurs came with me, at least one. So I've got on my own. So we're going to Harley Street, go to this place, go to that place. And I've got the X-rays up, and you can see this, that, and the other, and then, right, this surgeon, right, what are you going to do? Well, I'm going to remove the disc. Right, okay. Went to the next surgeon. Next one, going to give me a fusion. I think it was a fusion. It's going to fuse the spine to the pelvis. All right, okay, next one. And he comes up with another operation. So I've gone to three different surgeons.

55:28Three different ideas. Three different ideas, right? Three different operations. And I'm... I'm not the wiser. How am I? What does this mean? Tell me what this means. Who do I choose? It's like pick a card. What card do you want? And are you getting advice from the physios? I don't. When you've got these three options. You're completely gone with them. But they're the ones that have got to get me fit, don't forget. They're the ones who's my career and then placed in their hands at that particular time. And I've got no trust in them. And then I had a meeting with Ozzy. this was 90 this is Aussie's second starts Aussie's second season I think it is yeah and we and then I was so of these three surgeons I've now got to make a decision based on what I've been given which operation do you want I'm now expecting to make a decision call on this about what operation do you want well how do I know what do I know what's best for me so then on the I was told you've got to next week we're on a decision from you, right?

56:34So me and the physios now are falling out. We're not speaking. I'm going in every day, not talking. It's broken down the relationship completely. I've got no allies at the club. No one cares about me. They just want to, they want to sort me out, stitch me up, sell me, which is fine. I get it. But I have to, once I leave here, I have to have a career. Yeah. So on the Monday morning, go in early. The injured players always go in early. Go in. Ozzy wants a word. Can you go and see him? So I go in, I think I know what this is about, operation. Made your mind up. I don't want to do the Aussie impression.

57:10But do you want to, yeah, made your mind up. Like I said, I've not. No, I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't know what I'm going to do. This is a fucking, this is an Aussie idea, Les. Asking a player, have you decided which operation you're going to have? Correct, correct, correct. And I then, after this conversation with the physios, that there's three different operations to solve one problem. Now, one of those might be right. Which one? Two of those could be wrong. And I actually asked, the last time I was with the surgeon and I was on my own, I said to him, what if it doesn't work? And he said, you're in trouble.

57:47And I said to him, does that mean I'm fucked? And he said, yes. I'm not choosing him. Right? So that's why I said, am I fucked? He didn't use those words. I put those words in his mouth and he said yes. right so now Aussie on the Monday morning calls me in decided what operation no Aussie Tuesday morning Aussie Aussie wants a word Wednesday Thursday they're trying to bully me now into making so no one can force me to have this operation no one can pin you down and say you have to have this operation right because there are three options on the Friday I am I'm I'm kind of they're trying to they're browbeat me they're bullying me they're trying my career's on the line, my life, I don't know what this looks like, I don't know what operation to have, I don't know based on the influence I've got.

58:36How can I make this call? So I phoned the PFA. I was in tears, phoned the PFA. Here's the scenario, here's what I'm faced with. And they were nothing short of fucking amazing. They contact Spurs, tell Spurs what you're up to. How can this man, how can this young man make this decision? There are three operations that have been offered. spoke to all the notes everything um and the uh the club so once you do that once you i've then gone over the club's head but i had to because i had no allies i had no support no friends they they let me to rot didn't care about me mentally i was out drinking i was out of my you know there were periods of that that time where i was a lost soul not completely lost i didn't know where my life was going and the pfa stepped in and they were nothing short of magnificent and they spoke to the club you can't do this you can't you know we're getting involved in this situation so soon the physios hear about this you can only imagine what they were like i hadn't spoken to them their pride was hurt um so i the pfa then um spoke to spurs and there was this negotiation going on the pfa said right here's what we're going to do we're going to send you to an independent physiotherapist and an independent surgeon at harley street the surgeon and said, right, right, we want to try and get through this without an operation.

1:00:03All right, it's a last resort, not a first option. I'm going to send you to go and see a woman, the London clinic called Helen Payne. She's a physio. I want you to go and see her. Same thing, went to go and see her. So, went there, went to go and see her. So, slipped off pants, walked up and down about maybe half, a dozen, ten times, walked up and down. So, she could see my back. One shoulder was up here, one was down here. my back was a mess she could see it my one foot was pointing out the way i walked she kept wanting she'd right okay right i can see what's wrong with you right you need intense physio you need intense physio don't need an operation yet that that might come but you don't need it yet so i then went back to spurs and the pfa and the pfa then spoke phone spurs said right jason needs intense physio for six to eight weeks at harley street with this hell and pain at london clinic and the club said no no no we're not doing that so then i'm now stuck in a situation where this this physiotherapy is costing whatever it's going to cost i mean in the grand scheme of things not a lot of money but thousands right yeah so then the pfa then said um i will pay half of it so i I was going to have a meeting with Ozzy Ardiles.

1:01:20We had a night game at White Hart Lane. And Spurs got beat at that particular time. It was a night game. I can't remember what night game it was, but it was that 93 seed. Before we got sacked, it was in the... Anyway, I can't remember. It felt like a night game. So I've then gone and had a meeting with Ozzy Ardiles and I had this meeting with Ozzy about, can't speak to Ozzy if Spurs will pay half after the game. So I hang around after the game. Whatever happened. I can't remember the result, but Ozzy was in a bad mood, right? Probably got beat. Go in. He knows the meeting's there. You know, maybe two hours after the game ended, so it was late.

1:01:58I sit down with Ozzy, and I said, Ozzy, here's the deal. The PFA are happy to go half and half. Will you go half and half? He stood up, said no, and walked out. Right? And I'm like, luckily, Ozzy got sacked. Not long. Not long. Not long after. I'm not even sure it was Aussie's choice, to be honest with you. But if you think about the Alan Sugar story, about how it all starts from the top, about how I was perceived at the club, right? I'm now battling on it. I'm putting out fires. I'm fighting everyone at the club. The physios hate me because I've now gone to Harley Street. Then something happened.

1:02:35Gary Francis came in. But the club then agreed to pay half of this. So the PFA are paying half. Spurs are now agreeing to pay half, right? So I go away. and I've now got six to eight weeks to save my career. The agreement was if I don't come out of this after this physiotherapy, this intense physiotherapy routine, I then have to open an operation, which is fine. I'm with that. But all the work I was then going to put in is going to leave me in really good stead for the operation. So this hard work's in the bank and I'm going to come out, come into this operation, whatever I need and have the operation and then come out of it.

1:03:11And hopefully that's enough to see me through. So anyway, through this intense course and I worked my absolute, and I had vision. I had like a real directive. I'd real like. And you started staying in? Yeah. Oh no, I've got purpose. You've got a focus. I've got something to get myself back and fit. I can now see that there's light at the end of this tunnel that I can actually get my career back on track. And I would go in and the physios hated me. They wouldn't speak to me. Those charlatans. They wouldn't speak. And I was literally on my own. I would go in, stretch exercise work at home, stretch exercise work at home, Spurs then I would go to Harley Street she would work my ass off for two hours she would in every of course every day you do a little bit more you do a little bit more you do a little bit more so I was doing five days a week then weekends at home right never had a back operation and did that for the rest of my career and I didn't need an operation and those fuckers tried to make me have an operation I didn't need and had I not gone to the PFA I would probably have ended my career at 24 with a bad back and no one would ever give a fuck yet those fuckers would have told you that i need one of those three operations and the pfa thank you very much boys because they saved my career so did helen payne it's like just a like a total travesty of duty of care in it oh no there's no care there was no care but that come from alan sugar because i do think that that article that he done that that press release that he done i think carry a lot of clout about how i was perceived at the club.

1:04:43And I had to fight. I had to fight to save my career. I had to fight to save what... Like I said, I didn't think I'd play again. But I went on. I never had a back problem again. Never. Because I did these exercises every single day. Never throughout the rest of my career did I have a back problem. Yeah, it kept me out for over 18 months at Spurs and they just wanted to operate. I mean, I'm no surgeon, but a fusion doesn't sound... Oh, my. I mean, all of it sounds terrible, right? Yeah. But a back operation, you can't reverse a back operation. If that was wrong, you fucked, aren't you? Oh, completely.

1:05:15And that's what that physio said, if this doesn't work. And he said, you're in trouble. And I said, don't I fuck? Yeah. I normally ask people, what were people's favourite games? And I'm looking at this first game for Tottenham back after three years against Blackburn. Yeah, come off the bench. That must have been like... Well, yeah, that was... Yeah, and somehow, I mean, what was the time difference there? What's the gap between the two games? It says three seasons. There you go, right. There you go. There must be a sense of pride. Yeah. And I was also back playing for the reserve, but they wanted me sold.

1:05:49And I get that. And it was a disaster of a move for everyone concerned. But the injury that I was out, which was probably all things considered, it was over two years that I was out. you know just you know and then that period then trying to get fit back in the reserves trusting your body again learning to trust your body learning to trust you know but having to work to maintain that and then I went on to the Palace which was great fun for a month I bet you fucking ate Tottenham don't you I'm Chelsea you were alright when you signed that fucking contract I can imagine like even your sexual performers takes a dive as well you know when you've got a bad back most importantly you're out regular you can't wipe your arse no seriously to be fair mate I'm like that now I'm like that now no but you know you try and do anything yeah put your trousers on it's yeah that was a but look at me now got to speak about your goal against Sip Switch yeah we had somebody say are you gutted it didn't win player of the goal of the season no I tell you what, I'm disappointed it wasn't in goal of the month, though.

1:07:06But Graham Stewart won that, I think. He scored for Chelsea against Sheffield Wednesday, I certainly remember. But it was just, look, it's a fluke. Come off my shin, ankle, caught a thermal and went over to Grey Forest. It was a clearance. That was basically it. It was a clearance. How far out was it? It was just inside their half. So it was seven or eight yards inside their half. Jason Dizelle was coming towards the ball. and I remember thinking, if you challenge, I'm going to go through you as well. And then he, for some reason, didn't bother and I've just gone with both. One of those freak but funny moments.

1:07:46That lawn at Palace, did you see that as a point of, right, I've been through all this shit. Yeah. It's a chance to kick on. Yeah. Yeah, I loved it. I mean, that was my first time that I got... So we played... I seem to remember Stoke away. we played stoke and that was uh my first game back my first start which would probably been three and a half three years well over three years three and a half years something like that's a big chunk of someone's career yeah and i loved it absolutely loved it felt very emotional mom and dad come along to watch it very emotional because i didn't think i would see that i know you mentioned the blackburn game but actually it was that game where i you know starting 11 off the bench that kind of really felt I'd worked to get to this point.

1:08:33I've gone through a lot. And yeah, I mean, the four games that we played, I loved it there. There was a view for a permanent deal. I think the fee was arranged for about 500 ,000. And we played one three drew one in the four games at Palace. And, you know, that's not bad, you know, that's really, and I played well. I could feel myself like there was a desire because you never quite know how you can return. You're not quite sure. I did notice though. I lost. I was always very quick. I did notice that I wasn't quite as sharp and I did feel that I wasn't as quick over that two yards, five yards, 50 yards.

1:09:17I could feel that, but I was still quick, which I could still get away with. Yeah. And then the deals, you know, from what I understand it, Stevie Copper was manager. And then the loan period was up. And then I was like expecting just to sign for Palace. Stevie Copple phoned me. He was manager at the time. He said to me, look, there's a bit of an issue. Ron Nodes was chairman of Palace at the time, has received a message from Alan Sugar. The deal they agreed, this is my understanding on it, of it, that the deal they agreed, now Alan Sugar wants more money. Because he's obviously seen it's gone like, fuck you, Alan.

1:10:00Why is he wanting money for you? Surely it's... Well, you would have thought so, right? You'd have thought, I mean, maybe... A couple hundred grand. Maybe he still had told me this is porn with Terry Venables. I don't know, right? But anyway, Ron Nodes and Alan Sugar, they couldn't agree a fee. Something happened. You're never privy to these things, right? But Stevie Coppall said to me, The deal was not what they agreed. Now Alan Sugar wants more money. And Ron Nodes being Ron Nodes, hard-nosed businessman, done with a budge, Alan Sugar, done with a budge. And I'm stuck in the middle now, but you'd have thought Alan Sugar would want to get rid of me, wouldn't you?

1:10:37Bearing in mind what he thought me. Four years ago, whatever it was, he slaughtered me in the press. But he wants money for someone that's a waste of money. Now I'm like, anyway. They couldn't agree. And then that following week, um stevie couple phones me and said look we haven't spoken um in personal terms can we have an agreement on this now can we so i can go back to ron nodes say look here's what he wants so they knew he had my contract the spurs and he said we match that will it be you know would that be okay and i'm like yeah just match it it's fine done let's just let's yeah don't anymore let's get this still done so he goes back to ron nodes tells ron nodes that look here's what we're dealing with I think it would have been a three and a half year contract or something like whatever it was and then goes back to Alan Sugar and the pair of them can sort out a fee and I never joined I never joined and it was You're a better man than me mate because if you were saying you'd like say hello to Alan Sugar now Life's too short I'm not and that's that's the football industry now and I get it but I can't there's no point in me spending time worrying about hating on anything or anyone it's you know It happened.

1:11:49I get it. I understand it. I know the industry. It's a horrible industry. I understand what Alan Sugar's doing. He wants more money. Fine. That's how it works. I happen to be in the middle. But football would get caught in the middle. You know, now we're something. Look what's happened to Raheem Sterling recently. Right? Okay, he's far more. He got a bigger payoff. But, you know, sometimes players get caught up in situations that are no fault of their own. But he's already took you to the wolves, hasn't he? Already took you to the wolves before that. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, that's... He was obviously wanted to get this bitter battle with Terry Venables.

1:12:24He wanted to use something to throw enough, you know, and happen to be... I was weaponised in that particular part, but... I'm with you, John. I'm not hugging him either. No. I just think he'd just get a couple of hundred grand back. Yeah, he couldn't agree with me. Here's the thing. You never quite know what... It might have been Ron Nodes that tried to drive the... You never know, right? Yeah. You don't know. But, you know, it's fine. And then sugar. Look, if I saw Rosie, I'd say hello to him. It don't bother me. I'm not bitter over that now. I've moved on.

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1:15:51When you do get to Ipswich, you talked about that starting 11 at Palace, but 49 games, I think, in that second season at Ipswich, you're back. Yeah, yeah. So I think it's the most I've played at any point in my career in one season. Loved it. Absolutely loved it. Fitted in straight away. I lived in London still, but drove about an hour and a half drive. Still do my back exercises when I got there, which was an important part of, especially driving. So to wake up, do them, drive, do them as soon as I get there. And I loved it. It was brilliant. Slotted in straight away. They made the deal permanent.

1:16:32Really happy to do that. Brilliant football club. And then in the February the following year, which was in the 90s, what was that, 97? 97? Yeah. 97. I, yeah, I was sitting watching EastEnders at home. And as men do, you sit there, a pair of shorts on, just, you know, playing. Especially when Peggy comes on. I went, can't you? I like the older one. It might have been Willie or Wellard. I don't know.

1:17:09Anyway, I just sit there and then I just noticed that one of my balls was like, okay, why is that? So I don't look and it's like this left-hand ball was like twice the size and heavy and hard. I'm like, but I had some stitches in my shin and I was on antibiotics because my glands were up on that side. I had a bit of an infection in there. and I just thought well that's just you know the glands are up that left hand side the balls it's something to do with that but it felt very odd so I showed the the physio the next morning and I lifted up you know and it looked quite funny because one side was down here and one side was up there and it's like really noticeable like a ball bearing and he's laughed and I'm like it looks funny doesn't it looks a bit weird he's like yeah look at it yeah and And this was on the Thursday, I think we come back training on Thursday.

1:18:07I might have noticed on the Wednesday day off. And on the Saturday, we were playing at home and it had grown again. Like, you know, in 24 hours, it's really quite big now. It's like, what? So I showed the team had been selected and this would have been around about, I reckon about half one quarter to two three o 'clock kickoff so I'm in there having a rub doing what I need to do to prepare for the game and the doctor comes in Dr Lazar who came in and he said look I've showed you about this your ball show me how you know come down you know it's something you do as a footballer you're not concerned he's having a fiddle and then with I reckon within less than ten seconds he's gone right you can't play what do you mean I can't play I'm playing no right we need to get you the doctors right we need to and I'm like what are you on about I'm playing right whatever happens I'm playing right let's talk about this after the game there's only an hour you know 90 plus whatever you know it's like three hours time we'll have this conversation don't need it now and but I it worried me about how the how he how quick yeah yeah it worried me I was very concerned about how and I saw his face you know this was a doctor that was concerned about what he felt and saw and he tried this is this is what really alerted me he then tried to get me to see a doctor sorry a scan I do apologize a scan at the hospital after the game so let's say three four five so I'm not getting out there till six so they so let's say half six quarter seven early I'm getting a scan.

1:19:57No scan. Couldn't do it. Right? But he told me this after the game. But I remember we played Oxford at home. And I remember when the ball went dead, my concentration momentarily elapsed. And I remember just staring at the grass, thinking, what is this? What is this? Because his reaction. For a millisecond, a millisecond, I thought cancer. But it literally was a flash. But I remember thinking, no. For a millisecond. And anyway, Monday morning, he then arranges for me, nine o 'clock at the private hospital in Ipswich. A scan has been organized. You know, you're going to go there and, you know, you need to be seen.

1:20:41Fine. Got there just before nine. There was two nurses waiting at the front of the hospital. And it was, you know, it wasn't a big hospital. It just wasn't a big place. And I'm like, oh, they're out. and as I get there, they're waiting for me. I'm thinking, that's... Not for an autograph. Not for... Do you want to sign bull?

1:21:09I've done that joke a few times.

1:21:14So they're there waiting and they said, come in. I had to fill out the form, blah, blah, blah. Sign it. And then I have an ultrasound and they go in. So the appointments are nine. I've got them about five, two. I'm lying on the bed at 9 o 'clock Ultrasound comes out He's got this screen up Does that Little bit of gel on the He's doing the thing And he's going Yep Yep It's going to have to come out Yep It's got to come out What are you on about? What I'm like My palms Do you ever get sweaty palms? You do, don't you? Right? That's where you're worried, right? I've never had sweaty palms before My palms started sweating And I'm What do you mean it's got to come out?

1:21:54What you know what what's i'm on my own no one's with me he said uh there's a it's a tumor and it's it's going to have to come out and of course you hear the word tumor there's only one thing you think after right it's cancer i said right is it cancer he said we don't know but we have to it's going to have to come out because and i remember sitting there thinking shit it's my luck i mean what have i done in previous life you know i've just got to Ipswich, loving my football again. Had lots of injuries and various different ailments. So I then drive home. So that's it. They arranged. They couldn't do it that day.

1:22:31The next morning, they arranged for the operations. This is Tuesday morning. They're removing the testicle. I then had to phone George Burley from the doctor, from the physio, spoke to them, told them the situation. They were brilliant. They were absolutely brilliant. By the way, I do think, look back now about how the medical care that I'd had at Spurs, had I been dying, had I had this illness when I was at Spurs, I'm not so sure it would have gone very well because of the incompetence. And this was only six months after I left Spurs. Had I had it six months earlier, I couldn't tell you what treatment I would have got.

1:23:13This might have gone on for six months, maybe, I don't know, however long. untreated, and look, because of, and I do think that, genuinely do feel that spurs were, the incompetence at that time that I suffered, that I went through, would not surprise me had this just gone now, you'll be fine, it'll be a couple of pills, you know, you'll be fine. Ipswich, nah, straight in, bang, and the difference in care between the two was, from my own personal experience, unrecognisable between the pair. Ipswich were nothing short about that just brilliant for me and i uh had the operation and then i find out uh 10 days later i'd already decided that it was cancer because just the circumstances it it ticked all the boxes everything about it you know there were certain little things that you that that my circumstances pointed to there was no internet back then by the way this is yeah you might have caught it sooner right exactly exactly yeah and I but I they removed the one ten days later I went up to I went up with with my wife funnily enough when I went back from from having the scan I phoned my brother on the way back and he laughed I'm having your ball removed what are you having your ball removed you know people's reaction was very different my mum and dad were in tears my wife was at that time was in tears and I'm like I didn't feel scared and I think look again going back over that period I went through with my back injury at Tottenham I genuinely feel that I that that prepared me for the illness I think it genuinely put me yeah I think it if I could if I could get through that at that dark those moments where I'd been didn't think my career was ever going to turn to play again I was out drinking I genuinely feel that that left me or put me in such a good position that I could deal and cope with anything.

1:25:15And that, when it turned up, when I was diagnosed with cancer, it didn't bizarrely scare me. I can't even comprehend getting that news. But like you said, everything that you've been through previous to that has... I think so. Yeah, it left me. And I wasn't, bizarrely, I wasn't scared at all. Maybe because I was, you know, young and there's always that bit of arrogance, isn't there, about, you know, nothing can touch me kind of attitude. But my wife, obviously, and I get it, you know, everything pointed to cancer. And we were told 10 days later that it was cancerous. It was called seminoma. It was the less aggressive of the cancers I could have had.

1:25:58It was the less aggressive of the two. And then I went for a course of radiotherapy. But in between that time, I had to free some sperm. so because chemotherapy can make you sterile. My wife and I, we'd already had a baby at the time, but we wanted another one. So I'm like, well, you can't conceive again for another year after chemotherapy. That's what we were told. This is my chemo. Couldn't do it for another year. So, right, we'll make good use this weekend, right? You asked me a Viagra. No internet. before i have the before i have the chemotherapy right so anyway we we tried many times to get her pregnant over that weekend um because you know we had to wait we had to wait another year before we could fine so anyway i then go i have to go up to a place called born hall in cambridge where you've got to go and literally have a wank in a bottle right and i don't know you guys have ever done it right i'm looking around there's one or two you might have done

1:27:10just sweating all the sheets really but it's it's you know you you go into a room there's a bed and there's a there's a like a chest of drawers right and they give you a bottle right and there's you know this and you open the drawer up and there's some decent material to be fair. I mean, it covers all bases. I mean, there's a lot going on in this drawer. I don't know what to say. Some people need some real encouragement.

1:27:46I only went to the top two. That was enough for me. That was enough. Farmers Weekly. Oh, fucking hell, it always been in here before me. There was some seriously bad material at the bottom of that, which I never got to, thank God. But then it's quite, it's really weird. But then you literally have to put this jar into this envelope and you hand it over to this nurse and you leave. Anyway, I get a phone call. We've driven all the way to bloody Cambridge to get a phone call. We lived in North London at the time. They had to throw it away, right? Because they said that it was such a bad sample because we'd been shagging all weekend.

1:28:26nothing left in the tattoo there was nothing there nothing on empty there was absolutely nothing of any value right so I've now got I'm suffering the humiliation they threw it away that is a classic you've left it out all on the pitch haven't you you've left everything on the pitch can't give any more you can't I could give no more right so then I had to I had to then wait they said give it three days right so I went up three days later and to be fair when I look back it was a little bit the first one was like someone spat in it I do remember thinking at the time it's not your best mate you've done better I do remember thinking you could have done better yeah I do remember looking going not sure let us reload yeah but then the next slot I remember going okay there we go I can see there's he's back it had been replenished Just pass it over.

1:29:25Yes. That is my best sample. There's no new soap in here. I can't do any more for you than that. That is my best sample. Well, put it this way. I never got the phone call when I got back up. Yeah, so I had to freeze the sperm, which was... Did you ever use it? I did. Yeah. The sperm was frozen in 1997. That was when I had the chemo. And I met my second wife in 2010. She didn't have children. and that sperm was frozen for 17 years and 18 years later, little Leonardo pops out. Ah, that's incredible, man. Yeah, that's the future. I'm going to get my missus to listen to this bit because if we've got some mints that's been in the bottom of the freezer for any longer than six weeks, she throws the fucker out.

1:30:10We've got 17 years of Harry Monk and it still fucking works, and it still works a treat. And defrosted him. And yeah, the second time of trying, out pops little Leonardo. So he was frozen for nearly 18 years. Yeah. That's incredible, isn't it? Yeah. So. Nuts. Unfortunately, I can't say that anymore. He came out with an acid on his nose. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I had cancer again. I didn't mean I had cancer twice. Just after I retired in 2001, I got it again in the other side, another testicle which happens to less i believe less than 100 men a year in the country that you can have tested the country on one side it doesn't return it appears and it happens to very few men in the country but my oncologist i had a biopsy on the other side in 2001 2002 and then the biopsy returned pre-cancerous cells and they said to me it's not a question of when it's sorry if it's when it's definitely coming back it could come back tomorrow could come back next week next month next year or in five years but one thing is for sure you're going to get cancer again on the other side what do you want to do about it i'm like well what were choices she said uh the oncologist said well you know radiotherapy by this time i'd already had my second son with my first wife um and they said well you have to go through a course of radiotherapy which was six to eight weeks I've seen radio therapy twice a week going down to South Hampton and having the other ball zapped and they killed it therefore killing the precancerous cells and so yeah I mean lucky I've only got two balls right have you had three I've probably had a throw time that's right that's right can they take the other one off can you can you go around ballers well that is when you're in big trouble right yeah as a man yeah you can lose one and fly one engine as i have been and i've got about three quarters of the other one left because the biopsy so i'm just flying on three quarters of an engine but you don't want to lose both balls as a man because that causes i mean i have to take hormone replacement gel every day yeah yeah that's something that i have to have to have to take because of my hormone levels are obviously not Great.

1:32:38Good singers, though. Good singers, if you're on your boat. Yes, yeah. Get the eye notes. They used to castrate them, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, castrato, I think, is it? Castrato. I think that's, yeah, because they castrate them, yeah. Fully useless information. I don't know a lot of shit. It's true. Yeah, you're right. They used to do that. Little Italian boys used to castrate them. Don't back him up. Keep their voice on, yeah. This won't go out, will it? So me saying you getting 49 games, you're back, bypassing all the cancer period of that time, you really are back. Yes. With an exclamation mark there.

1:33:18Yeah. And that's the following season was the most I played in that season ever. But I've been through various, there were reasons I didn't play before we discussed. but yeah that season was was my favourite season should have got promoted that year again that first game back in the starting 11 yeah oh after the after the chemotherapy was yeah I struggled badly we played Bradford away and I was blowing out my backside yeah it's you know obviously everyone knows it's quite it's a powerful drug chemotherapy but it hit me longer and harder than I thought it would I think I'm not sure of any games you played consecutive for Chelsea but it was the first run of your career really of 49, did you say?

1:34:03Yeah. 49 games. You fought your games for Chelsea, then the shit show that happened. Yeah, yeah. Then you've just got banged. We're talking, what, six, seven years between that period that my career just wasted, just on ice, just completely wasted. Kayak gets my flight, hotel and rental car right so I can tune out travel advice that's just plain wrong. Bro, Skycoin, way better than points. Never fly during a Scorpio full moon. Just tell the manager you'll sue. Instant room upgrade. Stop taking bad travel advice. Start comparing hundreds of sites with Kayak and get your trip right. Bad advice? You talking to me?

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1:35:17www.tacobel.com visit Taco Bell. Get two today. At participating US Taco Bell locations for a limited time only while supplies last. Do you like it down at Portsmouth? I mean, I wasn't there long, got injured. Yeah, I mean, I broke my ankle at Ipswich in my last year and never got back into the team again and I was only 29, I think, when I went to Pompey and then I was there six months and then I picked up the knee injury which forced me to retire from the game and I enjoyed it as much as I could. Like I said, I was only in around the first team for six months and then I got, which was a cartilage on the anterior side, on the outside split.

1:36:06In the end, I did, I become quite exhausted with trying to get fit. You know, I've got, I've just become tired of not being fit, staying fit, and then trying to get fit. It takes a lot. It's the mental strain as well, trying to get back. Yeah. Once I have this information from the surgeon saying that, look, this is, I'm not going to lie to you, this is quite serious. You might not play again. once that and I had time to digest it and then speak to Pompey um no well they were absolute I mean you want to know that but the situation with Pompey well they so I signed up a three-year contract to Pompey in the 99 I picked up the injury in December it was actually in the training ground boxing day 99 and it was quite obvious quite early that this injury was going to probably retire me.

1:37:07So I still had two and a half years left on my contract. So Pompey then are trying to rush me through this retirement, right? But the conversation was it might retire you. It's going to. There's a danger. So all of a sudden, Pompey have got in their head that, oh, he's retiring. Let's get him retired as soon as possible. Well, they're now trying to force me to retire. And of course, all they have to pay, once you force someone to retire, all they have to pay is six months of the contract. That's all they've got to pay. And I'm now thinking, right, I need the PFA again. The PFA dug the outhold at Pompey.

1:37:44That's a spurs. You've got to do the same with Pompey. So the PFA stepped in. Again, they were magnificent for me. Pompey were, he said, you have to allow me, Jason, to fight for his career because it doesn't guarantee he's going to retire. You've got to give him at least a year to fight for his career. Right? And that's fair. Well, the troubles I had with them, the PFA stepped in and said, right, no, you're not retiring. He's going to work his backside off to get fit like he did at Spurs. He's going to try and get this back. We don't know what damage it is. It's not like it's an injury where you lose an ankle, lose a leg or foot, right?

1:38:25You're retiring. This was not that. You can fight to get his career back. but it also became quite obvious to everyone that it might be best for everyone that we do look at that route but we're not looking at it it might be a long-term vision so this this goes as is playing a bit of a game they owed me two and a half years of my contract then they would have had to pay me i think another month after that so there was a fee plus they had me insured I had myself insured. And there was this, there was a pot of what I was worth retired, right? And the pot where they had my insurance, my wages, what it was worth.

1:39:06There was a lump there. And somewhere in that lump would have been my package. You go, right, we'll do that deal there, right? So you save money. You get the insurance. You only pay up so much of my contract, but I then get a chunk of the insurance as well. and eventually, but some of the stunts they pulled as well, Pompey, honestly. Were it Mandarich then? Mandarich, yeah. I think it was his first signing actually at Pompey. But, you know, they're all at it. The football, they're all at it. I'm not, again, no problem with Pompey. They're all at it. They're all, they're all trying to get the best deal as Alan Sugar was trying to do and Pompey were trying to do.

1:39:47It's fine. I don't got no, no, but you're not going to browbeat me. You're not going to kick me out this door. And eventually, the package they first offered me to what I got was just, you know, you couldn't compare the two. Trying to palm me off with six months' money. That's what they're trying to do. As if they've calculated how much you were retired. Yeah, but I was worth more retired than I was fit. Because they would have saved money on the contract. They'd have got insurance money. But then you've got to give me some. I'm entitled to some of that. So that was how that was carved up. but you know your positivity is horrible you've been for the ringer throughout your career haven't you and the fact that you'd say oh I've given him a hug no problem I don't hold anything against him you could easily get be bitter I don't yeah I mean I'm not bitter like that at all I don't see you know I'm not that way inclined I've squeezed a lot into my life there's a lot that's gone on you know did you have a plan after after football when it comes to that point where you're looking?

1:40:53Are you like, what's next? No. So the deal was eventually done. Were it a relief? Yeah. It was sad. Not on the deal, but on the whole last 15 years. Yeah. Fuck it, I'm done with it all. Yeah, it shouldn't have ended like that. But there was a relief because I don't have to go through what – you know, football really, it's work, it's hard work, but it shouldn't be – I found it, it was such a effort just to get fit and stay fit. And that bit's not enjoyable. The enjoyable bits are training with the lads on a Monday to Friday, playing on a Saturday. They're the good bits. But, you know, the staying behind, you know, working, when you're injured, getting in early, having to do exercises, you know, five days a week to save my career, which I had to do throughout the rest of my career, which I was happy to do but it wasn't the kind of the fun kind of got sucked out of it a little bit for me I found and people ask me do you miss football I've said well I miss the money but I don't I don't miss football I miss the lads I miss the camaraderie I miss being around you know chaps and messing about and you know what was the journey from finishing to have you been at TalkSport 20 a year?

1:42:1921 this this March what was that window so when I retired I came out of football quite bitter actually I didn't watch football for probably a year and my youngest I just had another boy middle son and I just was lucky enough I could just spend time away didn't watch football and didn't work didn't do anything just bought him up for the first year and a good friend of mine I was at Chelsea with Damien Matthew was at coaching at Chelsea's academy and he phoned me and he said look come on get yourself out of this come down and I went to go and watch it was a night game Chelsea played Spurs in the Carroll in the League Cup it was the game where Hasselbank scored a perfect hat-trick left foot right foot ahead and that was the first game I went back and he said come down and I went there and I'm like I miss this I've missed this this is like great and he said come and coach in the academy and Neil Barth was there at the time I met Barthie and Barthie welcomed me and I started coaching you know with with the younger younger kids worked with Dame under 12 started doing you know doing my badges got my A for B went on loads of coaching courses was was enthused by being back in the game and then I started getting more work through Talk Sport and it happened because I went on a radio show with uh and Talk Sport maybe back in 2002 after my second bout of cancer, I think, and to talk about it.

1:43:46And I went on there and spoke, and the producer afterwards said to me, look, you know, quite like the way you sound on there. Would you be happy to come and do a few bits with us? I'm like, yeah, you know, let me know. I'll be, you know, fine. And I didn't get a phone call for about a year, and then all of a sudden, I get this phone call out of the blue, and it was when Jose Marine, sorry, when Roman Abramovich joined, and then Jose joined. So this is like 03 when Roman turned up and 04 when Jose rocked up. And of course, I was coaching the academy and I was a bit of an in for talk sport. So the Moose used to phone me up, right?

1:44:24And then I'll get other reporters phone me up when, because Chelsea were the big news. And all of a sudden I started to get more and more work because I was a bit of an in, coaching the academy, ex-player, and Chelsea were the biggest news in town. never been done before Roman doing unprecedented signing players literally three or four a day wasn't it remember that period it was nuts and I started getting more and more work I started finding that they were whenever they wanted a Chelsea story they'd come to me I'd answer the phone do a little bit and then I got invited in my first show was on a Sunday evening with Adrian Durham and then they started giving me more work coming in started doing stuff And then before I knew it, Tony Cascarino got sacked from drive.

1:45:12I don't know why. And they said, can you do drive for the end of the season? It was the day before Chelsea beat Liverpool in the Carling Cup final in Wales. And they got me to come in and did the show. And then on that Monday, I did drive for the end of that season. I did drive for the rest of that for like six, maybe 16 weeks. And then, you know, fast forward 21 years later, I'm still there. They can't get rid of me. I'm still there. He even announced your death. Oh, that was Goldstein. Yeah. Yeah, that was Goldstein. He said that I died on a boat, right? Yeah. Yeah, he... I think at the time he probably regretted it.

1:45:52I'm not sure he does now, but yeah. It was a bit of a nut story. Yeah. I don't know the way he'd say it. Yeah, people were blowing flowers outside Stamford Bridge. People were like, seriously. I bet there weren't any outside of the White Hart Lane, were there? Alan Sugar didn't write any flowers. What, they're setting fucking fireworks off around Tottenham for it? They were celebrating. So that's like a sliding door moment for the better then, isn't it? Yeah. If you're not going in with the coaching, you'd have probably never got on to that. No, no. Yeah, and you know, I'm so lucky. I love it.

1:46:30I'm very lucky. Yeah. I mean, you boys work in the same industry, right? it's fun. It's great fun. It's... It looks good, with O 'Hara. Do you wind him up? You know when he storms out the studio, is that... I love it, right? I mean, I hate Spurs. He hates me. He hates Chelsea. Spurs hate Chelsea. Chelsea hates Spurs. It's great fun. Spurs get beat. I mean, the ammo I've had over the last couple of years, that poor thing. Honestly, I... I do. There are days, right? There are days, right? Spurs got beat again, especially on the big hands, right? Last season. My God, that was... I'm going to work rubbing my hands thinking, and he must go to work a bit scared.

1:47:08Like, you know, oh my God, it's happening again. It's going to happen again. It's like the one in a changing room, isn't it? Where you know, if you know you're going to get a reaction, you just keep prodding and keep prodding. You know, it's going to go, yeah, they were shit. Yeah. But they're shit every week. That was the thing last year. Every single week. And they kind of replicate it now, except in Europe. There's something weird about Spurs, right? in their domestic form is fucking terrible but they go into Europe and it's like turn into Superman it's like what have we done this yeah so now he's we get on well I'm very lucky we get on very well it's great it's great fun I'm actually hoping Tottenham play Chelsea in the Champions League just to watch you two oh my god that'd be amazing that'd be amazing if you win yeah might have worth phoning in Colin Isiki on that one yeah if they win Did you play in the darts competition, by the way?

1:48:01Yeah. That Saunders won? Yeah. Did you know he's been invited on the tour? I heard. Someone told me that. Yeah, is that a wind-up? He told us within 13 seconds of being in the room with him. He's won this little tournament, and within 10 minutes he'll be giving us tips. He's so good. Stance, release. Honestly, he's just, I love working with Dino. He's such a free spirit, and you give him the floor, and you don't get it back, by the way. he'll dominate the floor and he'll tell you hey Jace Jace so Jace hey Jace and then you know I used to do this thing called Tactics with Dino we used to when the visuals first come in at Talks Ball and I'd have these chairs set up like on a corner and he'd be see this chair here Jace so I'd say this chair and he'd push the chair and he's like Mark in a chair he would talk you through he'd defend a set piece near post corner right he would go through that and he wouldn't he wouldn't see the you know he sees the funny side but he's great news This sounds like...

1:49:01It's not the PDC. What's the other one? The one at the lakeside? BDC? Yeah, he's been invited to the world thingy. I did hear that. So it's real, is it? It could be a Goldstein special. I'm hoping it's a Goldstein special. Right, the wind-up. But he's practicing. He's got himself a shirt done out with the Welsh dragon on the back. Yeah, the storyteller. Based on a true story. No, there's some... I mean, the characters at TalkSport are amazing. I mean, we're very lucky. It's a great place to work. Great fun. So you're there tonight. What's the show you're doing tonight? 10 o 'clock tonight. We just reflect on all that's happened in midweek, Champions League, and look ahead to this weekend coming up.

1:49:46The thing about football, as you guys know, there's always something to talk about. Even international break, that is a bit thin on the ground at times, but there's always something. Football gives you this energy, these stories. Back pages have got to do something. It's got to be a story in the back page. It's kind of a blank back page, right, in the newspapers. There's something. It's some bigger than others, obviously, but we're very lucky. There's always a chairman willing to chuck somebody under the bus, isn't there, for getting it? Do you write the, has anyone seen it yourself? I recommend some.

1:50:20The producer and the AP write them. But if there's something that stands out, I will recommend it. Like a famous fan is always a good idea. But the new ones are good. Like if you might get something with, I don't know, let me think, maybe Bristol City. I don't know, just pulled them out. If they get turned over by, you know. Trying to find stuff on them is hard. You know, who cares? you know Bristol's the good ones are like Spurs, West Ham Newcastle Man United, Liverpool What was the one when you dressed was it a clown you dressed up Oh yeah I've done yeah I've got the clown's outfit now I've never seen the masks we've got the masks now we went on we had to go to South Korea these masks you send these photographs they took about two and a half months to come over right and by the time so we had Big Ang by the time it got over Big Ang got set from Forrest so we'd send these photos he didn't even by the time that we sent over for the masks to come on by the time it'd come back he'd been in the job and got sacked out of a job by the time they get himself so was the mask was the mask Big Ange?

1:51:29Big Ange we got Big Ange we got the Arteta one gets a lot of use the Amarin one that's that's no use anymore I know but the Telov Telov we're all going to do with these now there's going to be a bank job done at Halifax Big Andrew hammering looks like he saw that

1:51:52he's got 5 ,000 fucking hands man you're not going to believe this two Premier League managers robbed the bank they just had the pay-ups and all they didn't even need the money oh but they're so good the Arteta one gets a lot of work well not as much work as I like they've been excellent this season yeah there'll be some new ones for the World Cup I expect it's funny because if O 'Hara's host and you can see him trying to keep his laughing before he... Yes, he knows he's coming. We've done the Arteta when they got beat by Man United a couple of weekends ago. That was great fun. That was such good fun.

1:52:31Like I said, they don't come out often enough, Arteta, because they've been so good. Yeah, that's a problem, isn't it? Especially if you've got too many of them. Before the show, are you just thinking, right, I'm going to just drop a couple of grenades and get the fans wound up. Well, yeah, I mean, the problem is, right, so football matters to everyone. It matters to all of us, right? But we all take football too seriously. I don't know why anyone ever cares about what I think about Liverpool, right? But I suppose because I've got a voice and I like taking a piss. It's great fun, you know, getting stuck into them.

1:53:06Yeah, and if you can, there's many different ways to saying someone or your team is shit, right? There are, there's many ways to say. See, on my show, I'm saying they are shit. Right. You've gone route one, right? Not for her, John. And that's fine. And I get that because you've got there early. But there's many ways to say or just pull them apart a different way. And then the best one is where you blame the fans. Right.

1:53:37Wow. That's just lights off. Wow. You want to go there. if it's quiet if it's quiet if it's quiet one night Anfield and they get beat and you go you go Liverpool fans you've got to take a little bit of that wow

1:53:54wow you watch the you watch the lines go crazy you're blaming us for a defeat I've actually got one how about you cheer a bit louder what is this Anfield roar here so much about well thank you very much mate really enjoyed that Well, thank you, guys. It's been brilliant. I loved it. Absolutely loved it. Yeah, I've watched a lot of these, and, you know, that's right. You're nice.

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