Lyle Taylor | Refusing To Take The Knee, Scapegoated By Charlton & Unstoppable Penalties | Undr The Cosh

36:32It was for the big picture. And from a footballing point of view, it didn't go great. But football, you don't really have a great deal of control over that all the time. Putting you on the spot, Chrissie, what are you doing? In Lyle's position? I was just going to say I can completely understand, you know, when you've been through what you've gone through, then you go into self-preservation mode and looking after your own and your family. Was there ever a moment of weakness when Charlton offered you that contract that was the same? No. Was there ever – was you that far gone? That's the breaking point, I think.

37:14On to my question next time. I think in that period, that point then I'd have gone, yeah, I'll sign the Charlton contract. But it was a weird one for me because I'd never had an injury issue before in my career. And it sounds ridiculous, but that LCO injury at 29 and a half was my first injury. So I just thought, I'll get over it. Yeah. I don't think I'm twisting in that situation. No. See, you're a better man than me because even the, like, might have all worked at Gwyneth Forrest I'm still thinking he's an absolute cunt I'm not speaking to him ever again who? Bowyer's you're stubborn though aren't you you know the yeah head of recruitment Gallon yeah I'm never speaking to him again and if I see him I'm making it obvious what a cunt I think he is even though it's worked out alright I've just not got that in my in my locker to say alright sound yeah see but so I think the only reason I can probably, what I can put it down to is the fact that I didn't hold on to that, is Kenny Jacket released me from Millwall as an 18 year old.

38:26I was three months, five months into a contract, four months into a contract. It was Christmas, I think. And I was three months before my birthday in March. So at that point, Kenny Jacket has come to me and said, and I believe his words were, you're not experienced enough now I'm 18 years old I'm a first year pro at Millwall I'm on I think I was on 110 pound a week like experience how do I get experience if I don't play I'd been out on loan to the conference Eastbourne Borough I'd scored on Satanta as it was back then my first goal in men's football I'd had a couple of loans and And the manager says to me, you're not experienced enough.

39:15So from that point until I think the next time I saw or played against Kenny Jackett's team, he was the Wolves manager and I was at Sheffield United. And my hatred for him and his decision had fueled everything that had gone on. So I'd have probably been 23. 23, yeah, 23 at that point when I've then played against his Wolves team. And Joe Gallon, Steve Gallon's brother, who was his assistant manager, comes up to me and says, well done, Lyle. We told you you'd never make it. And you know what? You've done really well for yourself. And at that point, I let go of years and years of hatred that had driven me.

40:06and that was what I used as fuel to get me to that point. I think in that moment, it was vindication of what I'd been able to prove. But did that anger get you to where you eventually got? 100%. Because the anger drove me to the point of him saying that and then it was, okay, I have a talent. I have a gift. I've been able to prove those who doubted me wrong. Now this is for me. I went to Scumforpe and it didn't work out. And then I went to Wimbledon and it clicked. It clicked for me under Neil Ardley. It clicked. And me and Neil Ardley, we butted heads because I thought things should be done a certain way.

40:58I got frustrated because I didn't think, I thought players should be better than they were. and I expected better than some of those players were able to give. I then started working with a psychologist, Steve Sylvester, and he taught me that you had to sacrifice yourself for the good of the group and leave your ego at the door. That's very difficult for a striker because we're ego-driven. It's about goals. We put the ball in the net. We are, we wear nine on our back. We are top dog. I carry the hopes and dreams of a fan base because I'm the striker. But he taught me a different way. And that then matured me because I stopped expecting people to do stuff, especially at Wimbledon, that they weren't capable of doing.

41:54Did it alienate you when you were a bit like that from the rest of the lads? It caused problems. It caused problems. my first year at Wimbledon we we just played Accrington in the playoff semifinal the first leg the manager takes me off at this point I'm top scorer I don't even know what it was 22, 23 goals so far that season we've Tom Beer as young lad at Wimbledon has just come on and scored against Accrington in the playoff semifinal first leg we then have the end of season do end of season end of season awards dinner and all that with the fans and Wimbledon being a fan owned club it's a bigger thing than at the majority of clubs that I've played for and I didn't get player of the season didn't get players player of the season I didn't get supporters player of the season but I've scored 22 goals and got 10 assists or whatever it is I am the man like how dare you not give me that you're silt on that yeah no no no You know, looking away from the stage.

43:01It's like when a camera goes on, it loses in Oscars. Yeah. And you're like.

43:08My head was in the bin. In the bin. And it was almost like, how dare you disrespect me? How dare you? I love your honesty. And I remember after that, my head was gone and everyone could see that my head was gone, but nobody knew why. So we turn up for training. We've got a second leg of the playoff semifinals. I think we were 1-0 up. I think Tom scored the winner. We won that game 1-0. And the manager pulls me because you can see I'm angry. So we go for a walk around the training ground. I didn't find this out until a lot later but while we're walking around the training ground there's a meeting going on inside and the boys are having a meeting and the meeting goes kind of from what I was told the meeting was kind of like look Lyle's going to be an arsehole he's being an arsehole but whatever he gives you just take it because we're going to need him to win these playoffs we go up to Akrington Bayo scores the we go to I think we went 2-0 down quite quickly or we went 1-0 down really early and then kid Mingoya I think Josh Windas played in that game and Mingoya scores an absolute well If my memory serves right, that's how it went.

44:31Get to go into extra time, the floodlights go out. We're like, oh, here we go, yeah. There's some bullshit going on here. Jake Reeves picks the ball up, goes on a mazy, shoots. Keeper parries it. Reevo rugby tackles his man to hold him down on the floor on the edge of the box. I follow it in, score the winner. Scenes. Mental. It's my first. Is this definitely what happened? Are the floodlights back on now? The floodlights are on. Some people can see this.

45:05In my own mind, it's pandemonium. This is playoff semi-final, extra time. These are the things that dreams are made of. This is my first experience of the playoffs in the Football League. Afterwards, we celebrate and whatever's going on is going on. We go to Wembley. We play Plymouth. I score the first one. Bale scores the second one. We've done it. We've won the playoffs. in that moment i think everything changed for me i stopped being the angry person who just wanted to argue and verbally abuse everyone when they did something wrong and kind of i suppose became a man i stopped being a little little kid little bitchy whiny fucking you think you're too good you think you're better than everyone else kid and kind of became a a man do you think that's why you had so many clubs like pretty much you signed for a club for a year yeah people's perception him is yeah really good player but it's a fucking dickhead he's probably not worth the asshole i had a lot to say for myself the only difference was is i still have a lot to say for myself and even at charlton and wimbledon and forest and and subsequent places that i've been i've still had a lot to say for myself the only difference is i earned the right to say it when i was younger i hadn't earned the right at Sheffield United at Scunthorpe at Millwall I'd have an opinion I didn't have the right to have an opinion because I hadn't earned the right to have it yet I hadn't proven myself to anyone so you're just a kid with an ego problem I can see that now and I've been able to see that for years now but I still can't change who I am because without who I was I wouldn't be who I am now I wouldn't have got to where I've got to now without being hard-headed and stubborn and nah, fuck you.

46:48I'll prove you wrong. To play professional football, you have to be elite in mind and body and ability. I only had two out of the three. You won't figure that out for yourself which one I'm fucking lucky. But to get to a good level, you've played many fucking games, did you? but you to have a career for an extended period of time the average career i think is only eight years long so to have a career for extended period of time you have to be able to become whatever you have to be able to become to one survive and two to flourish and i found a way was that person a nice person probably not do i regret it no i think i know the answer to this but would you do anything different with charlton leaving the way you did if i could guarantee that i wouldn't have got injured i'd have played the problem was is i just had the first injury scare of my career didn't know what injury looked like before that would i do anything different no i made the decisions i made with all of the information available to me did it work out ideally no the ideal would have been play even if i'd have played one of those games and we'd have won play one of those games get the point but we haven't got crystal ball because obviously charlton got relegated yeah i think that's where a lot they did everything's as well because the when they got relegated i was at the driving range at the o2 and there was charlton fans at the driving range as well.

48:31And I remember the result come through and I got out of there quick. I think that might have been a mistake, that one, one of the driving range. I was like... Maybe just say it out. No, but it was an impossibility that they were going down. I think, well, the swing on the last day, you'd have to have a look, but I think the swing on the last day was that Barnsley had to beat Forest and Brentford in their last two games or something like that. I watched the game, Brentford on the Tuesday night, if you remember. Late goal. Yeah. So, and Charlton were basically like, you don't even need a point. You're good.

49:09And it just went really wrong really quick. But no, I don't think I'd change anything. I didn't want Charlton to get relegated. Now, bear in mind, in those nine games post-restart, there was some mental open goals missed by Charlton players. I'm not going to name names, but there's some people who have to carry a lot of blame. And I mean, I'm talking chances your nan puts away. So they don't get the blame. But it is what it is. You could say it was criminal of them not to offer you a contract as soon as you got promoted. Well, we asked for a contract. We went in and asked for a new contract. That was the most mental part of it.

50:00It was like, are you going to then build this club towards actually some success in the future? And I think the reason he didn't is he'd had, the owner at the time, the Belgian owner, had had fans protesting outside his company in Belgium or his offices in Belgium. They'd wanted him gone for years. And I think effectively the problem he had was it was easier to sell a League One club than it was to sell a championship club because he didn't want to blow the wages up. He didn't want to pay big money. So there was no real big money being earned at the club. So it was kind of like, I'm going to keep this on a League One budget.

50:41And Lee Bowyer done wonders, by the way. At one point that season, we had 10, 12 injuries. We had kids 16, 17 years old playing and on the bench. Like Lebo, you've done wonders. The only way, the only reason it got to the last day of that season was because of the manager and his way of driving the team. And he was able to motivate men. And he was brilliant at it. so really it's testament to his ability and his capabilities that it even got to that point because the owner pretty much left the club on his knees and then obviously the the fake shake and and sourful they should make a film on that but you know catch me if you can yeah i used to see him in panacea organizing nights in circle and that and the next thing he's on sky sports news in a suit buying Charlene Mental time that was Have you ever seen him looking so smart?

51:47I honestly haven't He looks absolutely fantastic What's he got on? He has got the new 25-26 under the cosh strip I tell you what it's giving me 2002 England vibes Beckham Beckham Greece Against Greece Funny enough Chris When I looked at you in that, the last person I thought of was David Beckham. But you do look good. The new shirts, out now and available on our website and on the O 'Neill Sportswear site. Can I introduce the away kid? We have designed them ourselves. Bit South American for me, I feel. Don't know why I'm getting them vibes, but I like it. Twice you've said vibes and I don't like that word, you know that.

52:31I'm not getting any vibes, I'm just seeing two lovely kits. I'm not getting vibes at all. I'm not getting to communicate it, Chris. But we've mentioned it many, many times. O 'Neill Sportswear supported the last three series of the podcast. And if you want to get your own team kitted out, how many can you get minimum order? Minimum order, seven. Seven? About as many as you want from here. How quick can you get them on your doorstep? Four to six weeks from design to delivery. If you're looking for a bit of a size guide, that is a medium. It is a medium. That Chris has got on. Loose fit, I'd recommend.

53:04No, but the link's in the description. If you want to sort your own team out or get an under-the-cost shirt, click away and you can get some out. Great present. Yes. Oh, sugar, yeah. What a Christmas present that'd be. And you can still buy the older kits. You can. If you like them more, that's sound. We're not here to judge whether you like this one better than the last one. Get whichever ones you want. So the link's in the description. Get yourself involved. And a massive thanks, as always, to O 'Neill Sportswear for supporting us.

53:38Just jumping back a little bit to Wimbledon because the trajectory, like the change of, not fortunes, but the trajectory of your career, do you put it down to that changing mentality like you mentioned? Because like we said, there's so many clubs bouncing back and forth up until that point at Wimbledon and then you just seem to get that stability, scoring goals. Changing mentality, also a change of the people around me. Jake Reeves, who was central midfielder at the club and is club captain at Wimbledon now, best mate in football. He was a massive, calming influence on me. We used to go to the gym after training together and he would be my sounding board.

54:24Simon Bassey, who was the coach, he'd actually... What was the reason when you say a sounding board? Yeah, Jake was, yeah. Yeah, he really was. He was a very good footballer, very accomplished technically, came through at Brentford. So he was one of those kind of players who was very comfortable on the ball, but also used to run like a dog. Reeves, he could understand my frustrations while also being younger than me and being less angry than me and be able to put it into context for me. Simon Bassey, who was the coach. Bas had followed my career to Scotland and back and everywhere. And Bas was incredible for me, an incredible coach.

55:08Neil Cox, who I didn't have a great relationship with in the first year because I was an arsehole. I was the one who treated people badly and said things that you shouldn't say. Neil Cox, in the second year, introduced me to my agent. And me and Coxie then grew a relationship from that point of, based off of respect. Because Coxie won't take nice shit, would he? No, no. Coxie is an incredible bloke. Incredible bloke. Neil Ardley was the manager. He was brilliant for me. Probably allowed me to get away with too much. I remember one instance we were playing, it must have been a Tuesday, we were playing a small-sided tournament and there was a team that was majority made up of players who weren't in the team and they actually won the small-sided tournament and I went off.

55:59They were there like shoving it down your throat, taking the pictures and all of that. And I was like, oh yeah, finally I played a game and won, have you? And like stormed off the pitch. Got him. It's a big bit. Got him. I hate losing. Told you, mate. I hate losing. I'm not voting for him for my player of the year. And even down to like training games, I hated losing. The fact that I'd lost did not sit well with me at all. So yeah, no, I'd throw my toys out of the pram. Toys would be well out of the pram. But Steve Sylvester, the psychologist, was another one who was massive for me. And there was a real mix of people in that dressing room, senior players like Paul Robinson, Bayo Akinfenwa.

56:44I remember Bayo beating me up in the dressing room. I literally beat me up, broke my watch because we were playing Yeoval at home and I used to poke the bear. I loved poking. I still love poking the bear. If I can get a bite out of you, it's brilliant. And I kept poking the bear. I kept poking and poking and poking and Bale eventually lost it. And he's got me in the corner of the dressing room and he's just wailing on me, bang, bang. And I'm covered up like this in a ball and he broke my watch. And I was like, it got broken up in the end. I can't remember who broke it up, but it would have been the staff member coming and like that's enough what's going on in here before a game.

57:29Mental. Mental. But I kept poking the bear so I deserved it. But it was like a there's a totting up process of all of your experiences in life they turn you into what you are. And I eventually learnt to be a little bit less of an arsehole. Could you check? Criticism. yeah because that was what from anyone like you know like so say i'm playing up front with you and i'm like fucking hell you're fucking having a fucking shit would you go well he's right or you go fuck you i'm not if i felt i was playing badly it could have gone really wrong really quick because i could have gone under being the younger me the really angry me would go all right then watch this I'll show you so I think it was always with me it was all about timing it was all about timing and who it was coming from if it was coming from somebody I respected as a man as a player then it landed better if it was coming from somebody that I thought hang on you can't lace my boots then I did it it went left it went left he's featured heavily in the last few months Marin Marin Agnes is it yes from Forest how was he when you were there scary man scary man he does look a bit is that the one who's there now yeah he's got an aura about him I remember him being on the side of the pitch watching training I think it would have been quite early in pre-season in my second year.

59:16So Chris Hewton was still the manager and Mr. Maranakus is stood on the side and he's got like he's got people with him whether they security and his left hand right hand god only knows but i remember him watching training and he's i mean he's only six foot tall but he's a big man and he's you know he's there when he's there and i remember walking up to him after training and mr maranaka shook his hand i hightailed it into that dressing I got out of there as quickly as I could. Because you hear the stories, who knows if they're true? I don't know. But you hear the stories and it kind of shapes the way you perceive someone.

59:57And yeah, there's an aura about Mr. Maranakis. Do you carry a gun? I don't know. I don't want to know. You carry guns under them, Greeks and that. You really don't want to know. He looks like he could make you disappear, doesn't he? Not every Greek person, obviously. I've just done like you've seen the owners in the past Turkey's the same there was a bloke who stormed the pitch to have a conversation with a referee with a gun in his waist and a holster you're like hang on but no he's but what he's done for that football club is amazing amazing I mean Forrest were stuck outside of the Premier League for what was it 23 years or something like that and it's really good to see them have the success they're having I hope now Sean Dyche is in there.

1:00:45I really hope that he can turn their fortunes around. What did you need from your manager to get the best out of here? A cuddle majority of the time. I look back at the managers I've had. The ones that I've done really well managed me well, but they were also really good managers of men and motivators.

1:01:33So, it's no surprise to me where I've done well and why I've done well where I've done well. I have tended to respond better to a cupping of the testicles. Do you know before you've seen this guy at Wimbledon, this psychologist guy, you must have flown back at managers over the years then. Yeah. And it never ended well. And it always ended badly for me because I'd always have something to say. Yeah, you're having a go at me. yeah but he's done this and it's like passing the buck and passing the blame just what is it if they're going to go at you when you think you've done well they've done all right and they've still let it go at you i can imagine that like steam coming out of you yes yeah but then there's times where you have done well and then there's no reward for that and that's probably worse at forest when we played bristol city that night at ashton gate and i've scored twice in in I've come on in like the 80th minute and I've scored twice in 47 seconds which at that time I don't know if it's changed now but it was a second off the world record gutted because scoring twice in a game something but scoring twice in like less than a minute is like what on earth has just happened you're 1-0 down all of a sudden you're 2-1 up and you've scored both goals you know wow this is mental it's an injury time as well yeah it was like 91 and 92 or something like that but it was 47 seconds between the two goals um so we played fulham at home that was like the tuesday or wednesday night we played fulham at home that weekend and i think we got beat four nil four one something like that and i'm sat on the bench i never even got off the bench so i thought i was gonna be starting i'm sat here for 90 minutes watching this like This Cooper.

1:03:28Yeah. And that's probably worse than being told you need to do more and you feel like you've had a good game. Because I've got categoric proof that I did really good stuff. 47 seconds worth of proof. I can send you the video. One clip. We don't even have to send you two clips. Give this book a record. You know what I mean? It's a second off in the red book. and it's like that's even worse but it's football there's no rhyme or reason in this game i did because boy you sign you for birmingham for what you can do on the pitch but i'm also guessing he brought you in because you've had an opinion and you'll not ruffle a few feathers but maybe that expectations yeah how was it with traw you in that dressing room the dressing room was fine there was never any issue between me and Troy and I only say that because Troy being his opinionated himself and Birmingham fan and whatever but we were very much in step because we wanted to achieve the same thing which was keep the club in the league and then I think Troy got a little bit of shit after I'd gone back to Forest and then tried to throw my name in and oh I've scored one less goal than Lyle or something like that and it was like eh why why are you bringing me into this?

1:04:55It's nothing to do with me. We were fine. And I mean, I haven't spoken to Troy since, but you'd have to ask him if I don't, I doubt there's a problem. I don't think there's a problem. I just didn't really understand why my name got thrown into the conversation when people had said, well, you've not scored enough goals. And it was like, well, I played this many games more than Lyle and only scored one goal less or two goals less. And it was like, well, well, well, well, I'm not your competition. Like we were teammates pulling, the same direction so i don't know where that came from but if anyone's got an issue with me then take it out of themselves i don't care excuse my ignorance to you but what was your what was the crap with the black lives matter initiative did you refuse to take any from the start no so my initial with black lives matter was black lives matter the statement it's three words as a statement i i have zero issue with that you are 100 right so yeah black lives do matter And then post-COVID world shutdown, information starts becoming weaponized and disinformation and misinformation keep getting put out there.

1:06:22So I took my time, obviously, post-George Floyd riots and all of that and cities burning in America and things going really, really bad. across the world because of that. So I took time to actually go onto the Black Lives Matter website and read what they said their mission statement was. And in reading it, it didn't sit well with me. And I mean, we'd be paraphrasing at this point because I couldn't tell you what I said word for word. But Black Lives Matter was set up by a group of three people who saw no place in the home for a man, the nuclear family for a man. I believe, unless I'm incorrect, they were three lesbian women who set up Black Lives Matter.

1:07:25And then Black Lives Matter then took all of the funding and they were found to be buying themselves. So at this point I've gone, nah, I ain't kneeling. No point. What you're trying to do is right. The vehicle you're using to try and get to where you're trying to get to is wrong, in my opinion. So I said, look, I'm not kneeling. Obviously, I think it was Wilf Zaha said, I'm not kneeling, but I'm standing in power. Whatever. Okay, fine. No problem. everyone is able and and able to to take it in whichever way they want to so i remember speaking to chris hutan about it and uh and saying to him look i'm not i'm not kneeling and uh he said to me he said lyle your politics don't line up with my politics and the club are in line with me okay it means nothing to me could that have potentially hurt me at not in forest yet possibly but i stand by what i believe in and i believe i've been proven right in the the time from then to now because black lives matter but the people the founders were found to be in embezzling money and buying properties and taking money out of the charitable fund and doing this and doing that so yeah okay I was proven right but could that have potentially cost me yeah would I do it again knowing the outcome yeah because I did what I thought was right and the same way with everything else that I've done I did what I thought was right and I had made my opinion known and I stood on that.

1:09:17And that was my kind of view on Black Lives Matter. The statement to this day is correct. Don't get me wrong on that. Are there racial inequalities in the world? Yes, there are. Are there gender inequalities in the world? Yes, there are. So do we live in a world that's perfect? Absolutely not. Are we a long, long way from it? Yes, yeah. We're miles away from a perfect world. And I don't want to politicize this conversation because you're never going to agree with everything that everyone else says. But as it stands right now, we live in a country that's in an absolute mess. The statement Black Lives Matter is correct.

1:10:01Yes, 100%. The group, the company, the charitable foundation, whatever it is, is that correct? In my opinion, no. Do you feel like it forced you to politicize your career at that point in Forrest and Chrissy Hewton's eyes? Maybe so. Maybe so. I remember I was asked to go on LBC one morning on my way into training. I had a conversation with Nick Ferrari. And it was that day that I got pulled into the manager's office and he said to me, he said, you're not allowed to do any press from now on unless it's run by me. so yeah then so yeah it did it have an effect yes it did but i still wouldn't change it because if we don't if we can't have an opinion politically or otherwise and we can't speak that opinion even if it is to be shot down or to be uh debated then what are we doing this is not a democracy anymore is that not is that not is that a communist society you're straight into 1984 whoa and i mean unfortunately we're living in a country where the police are now arresting people for herty words as it were so i think we're along 12 000 people whatever it was in the last year so So I think, no, we're a long way from being in a place where we need to be as a society, as a country.

1:11:39But the world is in a real mess at the moment. A real mess. I think it's a shame as well. I know Phil Foden's come out this week, last week. And he's just saying, just let us play football. You know, that's people's escape. Football's the escape. And I think it was about the rainbow. So Armand, obviously he's not saying he stands with what it stands for, but don't politicise the game. It's people's escape. But they pick and choose though. They pick and choose. When Mesut Ozil was campaigning for the Uyghur Muslims in China, I believe it was, being genocided or killed or mistreated, he was then ostracised by Arsenal.

1:12:24but when it comes to the ukrainian flag that was flown around all of the football clubs in the country when it comes to like russia doing what russia did that was condemned completely condemned by the footballing body when it comes to uh rainbow laces that is is pushed when it comes to uh her game two that is pushed so they pick and choose when they want to do it and when they don't Whatever fits the agenda. And that's the issue. You either go, we're not politicizing this game at all, or we're going to go from this viewpoint, whether it be leftist, whether it be right, whether it be central and leaning either side, we're going to go from this viewpoint.

1:13:06But the problem is, is when you pick and choose, you're going to get people's backs up. Now, I'm not saying that we shouldn't push for rainbow laces and equality, gender equality, whatever the term would be. I'm not saying that we shouldn't push for Her Game 2 to be recognised. I'm just saying we either go one way with it or we go the other way with it. So Phil Foden, in my opinion, is right. Don't politicise me when it suits you, but if I have something to say like Mesut Ozil did, you then shut me down and say I can't talk. So that's then when you're in a bit of a sticky situation. I mean, obviously we'll go on to something a bit more serious.

1:13:52Does Steve Cooper look like Schmeagel we know? I've just seen his tracksuit. No comment. Do you know what? He was one of the best footballing minds I've come across. the way he would uh set the team up and get his coaching points across was like nothing i've ever seen and i know steve ranz who was the head analyst was uh was was also massive in terms of how they delivered their message and how they would help set the team up but yeah wow that was steve cooper really opened my eyes to another level of coaching that i hadn't been privy to before if you needed to bounce your location to somewhere else in the world for whatever reason who would you use that's an excellent question I think it's an easy one to answer though NordVPN for me every time that's the only one I've ever used every time and you've been using it a lot I know that we all have Chris we all have for whatever reasons never thought I'd go to Norway but lovely country but it's perfect if you're watching sport you want to watch sports in a that's been shown in another country.

1:15:07Bouncy location anywhere in the world. You're there. You're watching, or you're abroad. You want to watch Emmerdale? Get on your app. Bouncy location back to the UK. Hey-ho, let's go. The best one I use it for that time when I were away and I watched the Ryder Cup. Yeah. Obviously on the Sky go. Not available in this location, it says, doesn't it, when you want to watch Sky abroad. I'll tell you what else you can do. A little tip as well. Bouncy location somewhere else when you're booking flights or hotels and stuff. It's cheaper in other countries. I mean, there might be concerns out there that security isn't as strong as others.

1:15:40What would you say to that, Chris? Let me put them concerns to rest. Because NordVPN, renowned for having outstanding security. Nobody's getting in, nobody's hacking, getting your bank details, your passwords. Just rest at ease. To be honest with you, I didn't even know people could do that. But until I got involved with the NordVPN. Is it watertight? Watertight. Link's in the description. And we've got a special, special offer. By using the code COSH, you get a heavy, heavy discount and a 30-day money-back guarantee. Just follow that link in the description. And are you still playing for Montserrat?

1:16:19What's the crap there? As it stands, we've got no manager and no games until September 26. So I don't even know. I don't know what's going on. I haven't heard from anybody at the FA from September 2024. Are they taking applicants? We could do a job there. The new manager got put in place, and his assistant manager used to work at Charlton in the academy or the community or whatever it was, so I knew him, Damo. So the new manager got put in place for two games. That was the first time I found out that Lee Bowie wasn't the manager, and no one told me anything. So that happened. he took charge of those two games.

1:17:01I think the team did okay. I didn't play in those. And then two weeks ago, he got the job as Trinidad and Tobago's women's team manager. I don't know what's happened there. So I put a message in the group and everyone was like, I don't know. I don't know. Is that because it's just that relaxed? Oh, the Caribbean is horizontal. That must have, does not drive you mad? Honestly, it it drives me up the wall you cannot get anything done on any sort of timescale they just yeah will you have a play by mick rothborn yes so so baz was assistant manager to um um donaghy yes willie willie so willie was the manager and and and baz was his assistant and he was a character and oh my god he was a character uh i've got some mental videos in my phone like singing and dancing and doing just crazy stuff he was he was brilliant and willie willie was was so good as as the manager he kind of tapped into he used to he had he had this one he had he said this once about Montserrat and he said uh he said about us being poor but proud it was like everyone was just like what on earth have you just said but it just became like an in joke yeah lads brilliant we're poor but proud we are and it became kind of like us his record as The manager was unbelievable.

1:18:44We won games that we should never have even been in. And there was boys who didn't even play football. Boys who were playing non-league football, like training once a week and playing a game in the park effectively. And we were going out there and we were taking it to like your El Salvador's and teams like it was bonkers. And in all seriousness, we would spend all day around the pool drinking. We'd go and train in the evening and our game would be the next day. So we'd actually, on the day of the game, we'd do it right and we'd hydrate and do it properly. But we just, it was like, it was like stag do every time we went away.

1:19:21It was just carnage. Did you have any pushback from any managers? They're going playing. Yeah, Lee Bowie, funnily enough. So when I signed for the club, we, I think it would have been the September international break. So the first international break of that season, I think we played Wickham. And he said to me, he said, Lyle, you cannot go on international break. I need you. We've got a massive game against Wickham. So I've gone, all right, fine. I'll stay. I'll play. I think we beat Wickham. I think I scored in that game. The rest of the boys have gone away on international duty. Obviously then five years later or whatever it was, Lee Bowie becomes the manager of Montserrat.

1:20:00And he's like, Lyle, can you come away? No, I can't. The manager said no. The manager said he needs me. And he's like, no, Lyle, I need you to come. No, no, no. The manager said no. Do you remember when the tables were turned, bro? So it was funny. But, yeah, there was a little bit of pushback because you're flying halfway around the world. It's a lot of connecting flights in the Caribbean as well. Like we'd fly to New York and then down to Antigua and then across or Miami to Antigua and then across because – You're not knackered when you got that light. Yeah, no, gone. Absolutely gone. But post-dag-doll.

1:20:34I don't mind traveling post-dag-doll. Even on three hours sleep, you're in the pool with a bottle in your hand, don't you? But post-COVID, it got worse because we used to fly BA to Antigua, and then all of a sudden BA aren't flying to Antigua anymore. So it just became a nightmare logistically. And as you can imagine, logistics and the Caribbean being horizontal don't go well. So yeah, it was a nightmare. I was big Stevie Fletcher at Bournemouth. I don't know him at all but he just looks like one of us to me Fletcher's interesting he was a superhero a mortal superhero Fletcher was funny man funny funny man I remember being told a story of him shaving his bum hole at the back of the bus that seems dangerous in full view of everybody else and it was like what?

1:21:31I can imagine these four bum holes used to get shaved and all do you reckon you're going that way or reach around? No, he went legs of Kimber, one on each seat, sat in the middle, in the middle at the back of the bus. Drivers are looking for a mirror. I've just gone through a tunnel. And it was just like, I, at that point, at that point, it was like, what? Like that, there's no way that's true. Yeah. Okay, fine, brilliant. He'll come on, by the way. He will? Yeah, well, I want to see him shave his arse all night. I'm bothered about his football stuff. Did Leibor want you to stay at Birmingham?

1:22:09I don't know. I don't know if it was ever an option. Looking back at it now, if I'd have been given the opportunity to stay at Birmingham, I would, in hindsight, have loved to have stayed. I'd gone really well with the fans. The fans were brilliant. They took to me really well as well. But at the same time, I'd gone back into a pre-season where Forrest had been promoted to the Premier League, a place I'd never been before. And in pre-season, I did really well. And there was players saying, you've got to be given an opportunity. And I sat on a bench at Newcastle on the opening day of the season, didn't get on.

1:22:47And I remember speaking to Steve Cooper because he told me pretty early on in that pre-season, it might have even been the first day, like find yourself a new home. And I was like, okay. I spoke to my agent and he went, do you fancy forcing your way in I went yeah go on then I'll force my way into his plans I'm going to win the running I'm going to be the best player at the club in pre-season and I did really well in that pre-season I do believe I was the top scorer in pre-season at the club and then I sat on the bench and I'm like hang on but I'd said to Steve Cooper I said just give me one appearance in the Premier League I said and I will walk away from this football club not a problem and he did it.

1:23:32I sat on the bench first game of the season and he could have brought me on and he didn't. Second game of the season where West Ham at home sat on the bench again and we didn't even make all of the subs and we beat West Ham 1-0 at home. I think we got beat by Newcastle 2-0 or whatever it was. I mean, that was the atmosphere. Wow. I've been to St. James' Park a few times. I've done some work, some CoCom's work and stuff like that And the atmosphere there was something else. But as a player, my God, the hairs on your arms, the back of your neck, stand up. The place is so loud. It's incredible. And that was like, whoa.

1:24:14But he gave that one appearance to other players in the dressing room that he'd also told to leave. I remember Cafu had been told the same thing and he played in that game at Newcastle. So he got off the bench and the West Ham game at home, he could have brought me on. And I only asked for one minute and he didn't grant me that. And it's, I have my shirt from those two games, my Red Forest shirt, no sponsors. And I will frame that shirt with Taylor 33, Premier League lettering and numbering. And I will frame that shirt. And I will frame that shirt as a reminder, you don't always get what you deserve.

1:25:06And you are not always in control of what you do get. And that's why I will frame that shirt. And I'll keep that shirt forever as a reminder of that. Not because I've got my name in Premier League letters and numbers. Oh, that's something for me to celebrate. yeah it is something to celebrate this is where I got to but it's more of a reminder of you don't always get what it is that you've earned the right to See I can't believe you've not told me if he looks like fucking Schmingle I'll give you the minute fair enough back him up but come on Schmingle put me on for what he did yeah no it doesn't look like him if he'd give me that minute I'd have said no he doesn't but no no there's opportunities to leave during that year or did you always think I'm going to keep pushing?

1:25:56No, no. Get that minute. So after that second game, the Premier League squads had to be announced. I think it was. So the 25-man squad has to be announced. So at that point, there was then an opportunity for me to go to Turkey. So I had everything agreed with a Turkish club. And it was going to be an 18-month deal. um forest were gonna pay me up whatever they were gonna pay me up and it was done and everything was was uh signed off on i packed my suitcase the dog was not happy not like kebabs suitcase comes out and he's like what's going on here so i've packed my i've packed my case everything's agreed agent calls me they don't want us to act as your agent in this deal he said we don't care as long as you get what it is that we've agreed so okay pack your bags carry on packing calls me back it must have been an hour deals off the manager wants you to use his agent because he wants a different striker the manager of this football club in turkey wants because he wants a different striker who his agent looks after as well.

1:27:15But he's agreed that they can have you as long as he gets 100 grand out of the deal. What was that? What are you even talking about? None of this makes any sense. You're just saying words at me at this point. And where's the 100 grand have to come from, you? 100 grand would have come out of my contract. So the way it works in Turkey is, let's say you agree, let's say an 18-month deal, you agree they're going to pay you for ease of maths, 100 grand a month. So over that 18 months, they give you 100 grand each month for 18 months. You end up with 1.8. He wanted to take 100 grand out of that because they then pay your tax.

1:27:55So you get whatever it is that's agreed with you, you get. But then they pay your tax on their side of it, the football club. So, okay, so you agree 100, that's 100. So he wanted to take 100 out of that for himself. on top of me using his agent and it was like what i've never heard of anything like this because football in in in england is regulated in britain is regulated we were covered by the pfa we have a governing body we've got fifa over the top of it you've got uefa you've got the fa the scottish fa the welsh fa whatever it might be and it was just like what how does that work So at that point I was like, yeah, I'm not going anywhere then.

1:28:45So I stayed. And then I had to train in the afternoons on my own. I was training at like two o 'clock on my own, me and one of the physios. Played football golf pretty much every day. And that was the year where we had the World Cup was in the December. and I remember going in and speaking to Steve Cooper about me being allowed to train with the first team while the players who went to the World Cup were at the World Cup and it was eventually agreed. Ross, who was then in as like CEO or whatever he was, had taken me to Falkirk when I was 21. so I had a long-standing relationship with him so managed to kind of wiggle my way back into training for that two-week period uh while the the the boys were at the world cup so I went back in trained did well uh and then the first team were flying to Valencia to play against Valencia in in in a friendly in that that like just before Christmas I think it was like the 17th of December something like that.

1:29:57I was supposed to be off, but we had another deal lined up with another Turkish club. So because they've obviously seen that I've not played and I wasn't allowed to play in the 21s in that period from like August to December, they wanted to check that I was fit. So they wanted me to play in a 21s game. So there was a 21s game on the Monday. I believe it was up at Hull. and uh this was the thursday so i was supposed to be off the thursday in the friday saturday sunday with the kids and the first team were away and whatever uh or was i supposed to be off the thursday and friday in the saturday sunday whatever it was it was but the kids were training in the dome it snowed and everything was frozen over where no more than 30 seconds from the end of the training session a ball's been clipped long inside on the astroturf i've jumped controlled it landed as I've landed I've tried to then turn and I've just heard this like popping bang noise instantly it's the only thing that you can hear go pop is your crucia couldn't get a scan because the first team were in Spain the rest of the boys are in at a world cup I'm technically not a first team player because I'm not registered so it's like well you're on the academy budget now so you get a scan whenever the academy can manage to get you a scan obviously don't have the same pool as the first team if I was the first team player I'd have been in a scanner half an hour later but it was what it was so I think I ended up getting a scan like three days later turns out it wasn't my cruise ship I'd broken my leg my femur had smashed the top of my tibia and it It cracked in and down.

1:31:47So I got a broken leg. I ain't going to Turkey now, am I? I'm not playing Monday. I'm not going to be able to show a lanyard spore or whoever it was that I'm fit. That's me done. Then came the really hard part, which was we're not going to treat you. You can go to... Is this all got a Schmeagel, this? Well, I don't know. I don't know. It must be coming from above. Why is Schmeagel making him train on an afternoon? Is that what we're calling him now? Yeah, Schmeagel. Not corporate Schmeagel. Even more so than that. I don't know where it came from. I'm not going to treat you. I don't know who it came from.

1:32:26It was a case of you can go to, there's a clinic, an injury clinic somewhere in Italy. It was like, you can go there. I was like, well, why would I go there? You've got to treat me. Nah, you can go there, but you've got to pay for your flights and hotel. Okay, well, that doesn't make any sense. I'm not going there, am I? So whatever it is, it is. You've got to treat me. If you're not going to treat me, then we can take this to court and we can go that way with it, but you legally have to treat me. So whatever. So they ended up sending me to St. George's Park. Now, for me to get the treatment I needed at St.

1:33:07George's Park, they had to pay like 1400 pound a week for me to be one-to-one with a physio at game changer and those guys at game changer were godsends i know like you say about parking this anger and all that sort of shit and you were on about how well you want forest to to do and all that but i'd be like fuck you but it wasn't those so so the people that did that aren't the people that are there. Is it not Mr. Keriakis, whatever he's called? Well, okay, so Maranakis owns the football club. Maranakis don't get involved in the day-to-day and what's going on in Lyle Taylor's world. But he's still the owner, isn't he?

1:33:53He is, but... Okay, so if your Amazon parcel don't turn up, do you go and blame Bezos? If I got his fucking number, I would, yes. If I stood outside a training pitch. If I stood up by my garden. No, he didn't. Jeff you fucking you bald cunt come and sort this out but that's that's kind of just how it how it's gone for me I still have a bit of a grudge against Forrest thinking I signed you in good faith yeah and you've twatted me off and they paid me every month on time and they have given me experiences and got me to a place in the Premier League that I would never have got to or may never have got to otherwise.

1:34:37A place that, was I ever good enough to get to? I don't know. We'll never know because what happened happened. Was I good enough to play in the Premier League for 10 minutes? I don't know. We'll never know. So I can hold on to all of the anger and I can be really pissed off that things didn't go my way, but wouldn't that just be me being the petulant love from 10 years ago? Yeah, but I still think it's total bollocks, don't you? They're a Premier League club and they're not paying for one of the players. Yeah, that's shit. No, but legally, they then had to, but they made it as difficult as they possibly could.

1:35:12Why? It's just hassle, isn't it? No, why exactly? John's 43 and still petulant. I think that's what this comes down to. Why exactly? But whether they treat me like that or they don't, do you think they actually care enough of what I feel? Because I don't believe they do. I just believe it's just a duty of care of being one of your players, your employees. But then when I went back after the injury, Ross Wilson treated me really well because he did what he could do. I asked to play in the 21s and I had been told that I wasn't allowed to play in the 21s and Ross used his weight and my previous relationship with him used his weight to get me games in the 21s.

1:35:53He asked me, he said, are you ready? Do you feel physically capable? Yes, I do. Please play me. I need people to know that I've not just been inactive for a year. Because at this point, no one knows I've broken my leg. Because I'm not in the first team anyway, so it doesn't make a difference. I've not been registered to play, so it doesn't make a difference. People look at it and go, well, why did Lyle not get out in January? I wasn't able to. When I looked at it, I thought you'd just sat out. Wasn't able to get out. No, I broke my leg. That year of inactivity ended with me playing in League One for Wickham, playing in League One for Cambridge, dropping down to League Two.

1:36:27if I if that hadn't happened and I'd have gone to Birmingham I might have signed a two-year deal at Birmingham and might have played in the championship I might still be in the championship because players that left Forrest when I left Forrest Steve Cook for example still playing in the championship now Cook he's only a year younger than me Colback Jack Colback only retired or has he even retired he left qpr the summer just gone so where would i possibly be but we can sit here and say that until the cows come home i'm where i am i'm happy where i am i'm able to look myself in the mirror and be happy with what i have and what i am and who i am still fucking peace of mind for me peace of mind and happiness trump everything for me yeah and i'm just that gorgeous I'm pissed off for him.

1:37:20Let these things go. I'm fucking furious for him. I want a chin fucking Kenny jacket and all that. Jacket's having it. Fucking umpty dumpty head. He's still on pens. Still on pens. I can get behind that. Have you seen the technique? No. Where did it come from? So we got some penalties at Charlton because we had some players that were rapid, lightning quick and tricky. I'm good at diving. I'm really good at diving. First one, get bogged. They could sell it. They could. And obviously, Lee Bowie signed me as his number nine. He said, my number nine takes penalties. End of discussion. Okay, fine. I'll be on pens then.

1:38:02I think I missed two out of five so far that season. And I was like, this is unacceptable. You've got a shot from 12 yards. There has to be a better way than just running up to the ball, picking a side and going, right, this is what I'm doing. So I worked with Andy Marshall, who was the goalkeeper coach, and Dylan Phillips, who was our goalkeeper. And we slowed it down so that I could be more accurate and that the goalkeeper wouldn't be able to guess and go so early. But it got slower and slower and slower to the point it became a walk. Now, I'm not going to sit here and tell you what I look for, but I look at one thing, and the goalkeepers that I've practiced my penalties with at every club I've been with, they know exactly what it is.

1:38:46A lot of the players know exactly what it is. But I look at one thing and one thing only. But by me walking up to the ball, I can still kick the ball hard enough that you can't reach the corner of the goal as the goalkeeper unless you go early, in which case I can still change my mind because I don't know which way I'm going. I'm watching one part of you as the goalkeeper. So it started out as a, I need to be more accurate i need to be able to pick out a certain part of the goal choose a certain part of the goal and pick out that part of the goal more consistently by slowing down how quickly i approach the ball so it slowed down until i got to the point of i am strolling up to the ball now and there it is it's gone in again um but i i don't know how many penalties i've taken since and I think it's 25 or so and I've not missed.

1:39:40So it works. So even if I miss, and don't get me wrong, when I miss, it's going to get put on Twitter or put on Instagram and I'm going to look on R. But the fact of the matter is, is the technique works. It bears fruit. It's like the walk. It's the walk when you need a piss, when you desperately need a wee. Like the waddle. Yeah. Or nearly missing the bus when you don't want to run. That kind of war. We need to get on to fucking Tuchel, don't we then? Get in America next year with lads. It works. And I think it was just after I started doing it, Ivan started doing what Ivan, Ivan Tony started doing what Ivan does.

1:40:19Now, I had a bit of banter with Ivan during lockdown that we'd have a penalty shootout, me and him, me against him. And it never came to anything. But it's interesting because his technique works and he's missed one. and he looked an arse when he missed it. But his technique still works. I used to hate taking pens, mate. I used to take them, but I used to hate them. See, if I miss him, I'm a look-alright cunt. See, but that's like the beauty of the technique is I don't look at penalties now going, if I miss. If we get a penalty, okay, it's nil-nil. No, it's not. It's one-nil. I haven't even taken it yet.

1:40:59It's one-nil. In fact, let's just save all this time. let's run back to halfway line like on Kess come on I've got the ball put it down on the thing and we're good to go but that's how it is because I am supremely confident and you have to be confident to take penalties in the way I take penalties but eventually I'll miss that's what it is I was hoping I was hoping for the pink hair today being October and you said your fancies have been with the pink hair it's it's not as easy as it has just dye your hair pink. There's a lot that has to go into it with cancer research being on board and checking on sponsors and kit suppliers.

1:41:43And it's been relatively easy because Hummel, when I, when we were at Charlton, we were Hummel and they were really, really good and really helpful. And Tracy Lee burn, who was player liaison officer was a juggernaut. So she wouldn't even sleep until stuff was done. So she was amazing. But then I went to Nottingham Forest and it became Macron because Macron was our kit supplier. So that was kind of that. But then when I went to Colchester, we were Macron again. So there was already that pre-existing relationship. So when I leave and I come to Chelmsford and it's Surridge now, it's not quite as easy to get stuff done when you're out of the league.

1:42:28so it was it was quite difficult now is it something we can possibly work towards doing next year yeah yeah and i think it would be well adopted but my god i'm gonna get dogs abuse in non-league is that right you raised 80 grand you've raised 80 grand for cancer research yeah brilliant it all came from what is my own personal story was was people in my family having cancer beating cancer having cancer and passing away um and i did it for a really selfish reason and i i stand by the fact that it was a selfish reason but it's something that affects so many more people now than it ever should i think we're we're probably about one in two unfortunately i think we'd have all seen people deteriorating through having cancer so i did it for a selfish reason that became kind of a driver, a social driver at the clubs I was at and even other clubs to be fair.

1:43:28People of other clubs wanting to join in because it's something that's touched them personally and I've had some horrific stories come my way because of it. People losing family members, mums, dads, kids, nieces, nephews, whatever it might be, husbands. but at the same time you kind of know you're doing something good by having the conversation because don't forget when I was doing this at forest we were in like there was a cost of living crisis people were weren't able to heat their homes and put food on their tables so at that point I'm saying to people look this isn't about the money raised it's about having the conversation if I can have the conversation or make one person have the conversation I've done the right thing by wearing pink boots and having my hair bright pink.

1:44:14And it's mad because as soon as I dye it pink, I'm like, what on earth have I done? I thought you were going to go the other way and think, fuck me, it looks well. No, but then after two or three days, I'm like, yeah, I'll look the nuts. But the upkeep is mental. And you can ruin a bathroom. I've ruined a bathroom. And the dyed grout pink that can't be got out. and yeah but no it's uh it's an amazing cause uh and they do some incredible work cancer research uk and the people that i've been able to meet and share stories with along the way have been amazing fair play now what uh what you can do just carry on playing as long as you can or i've always said when the body can't do what the mind wants it to do it's time for me to call it when I can see something and I can't do it quick enough, I'm going to call it.

1:45:08But at the same time, I know there's a lot of life to live after football. And I've seen what players can become after football, where they play until the wheels fall off and their knees give up and their hips and their ankles. I don't want to be, I don't think disabled is the right word. I don't want to be less impaired Yeah, I don't want to be less bodily able for the next 30 years or 40 years of life, should I be lucky enough to make it that long. So I don't want to play until I'm broken. That's not the goal for me. There's a lot of life and a lot of things that I want to experience after football.

1:45:54I don't want to be broken. Good stuff, mate. Thank you very much. Yeah, thank you very much for coming on. Appreciate your honesty now. Thank you for having me. Refreshing. Appreciate that. Still Schmeagles. Jacket's still getting it. Yeah, Jacket's still a come.

1:46:13Did you know that we've got almost 200 unreleased episodes on Patreon? Do you know that, Chris? Which are your favourites? I'm going to give you Ron Atkinson. Yes. Yakubu. Mark Rossley, part two. One of my personal favourite. For anybody that doesn't know, what is Patreon? Patreon is the app that not only helps support the podcast, but also gives you access to, like I said, almost 200 unreleased episodes and an extra two every month. I like it because we get away with a lot of stuff on Patreon that we wouldn't normally on YouTube. And we've set up a community chat. Yes, with the Friday Club, some of the images on there.

1:47:00yeah Patreon's great for growing our Friday Club that's why we're here helping the Friday Club grow and the regular series and I like that community being together on there as well where everyone's chatting and having a laugh about the episodes and it's cheap very cheap I'd say cheaper than what a pint yeah yeah a toastie these days from an expensive coffee shop expensive retailer and a coffee yeah A coffee, a scented candle, they're expensive.

1:47:37A bag for life, maybe. What else is that about that price? I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what's about that price. A wine cooler in the shape of a cowboy boot. Yes. That is expensive then these days. I think it's when your legs jump. Anything else? No, just sign up. Or a pie. A pie. It's cheaper than a pie. The money's shot. No, but it is about supporting the podcast. And like we said, it just helps us create... Oh, Bag for Life, yeah, with a cat on it. It helps us keep creating the podcast. And we just really appreciate it and just builds that community, doesn't it? Well done, John. £14.99.

1:48:24It's not that expensive. £3.50 plus vat. There we go. so you can actually buy quite a few wine cooler cowboy boots so if you want to sign up just download the Patreon app search under the cosh you'll be straight in there and like we've said if it weren't for the Patreons up to this point well I don't think we'd be still creating this podcast would we? so thank you and get yourself involved

1:48:58Thank you.