Martyn Waghorn | Diouff, Roy Keane & a Knife

32:39He's like, oh, don't worry, I like you a lot. I'm thinking, I've gone in there, I've got him, I've come out thinking he's my best mate. He's one of the managers that I just really knew how to speak to people, and you couldn't really be angry at him because he's a fucking legend, really, at the end of the day. And he's like, I know you want to go and play, I'll find you a club and all this, and it ultimately did help us get out. But we used to do this training session, and he used to love betting for five pounds, so you used to do Old Vee on a Friday and we're playing for£5 and everyone was like it was class he obviously must have made so much money in the lads we had a good squad but just the value of winning£5 off your mates was like come on we're going to war day before a game, lads smashing each other and if you score a world he'd be like he was just like a big kid he was class honestly just a really good guy really good guy you got did you get am I right in saying you got young player of the year while on lawn yeah so you can understand why the club yeah I had a good relationship with the fans again like wherever I went I just tried to work hard essentially I know it's like it's an easy thing to say but I might have good days but I always lived by like Bally and what the gaffer like what he said it was like you're going to have good days you're going to have bad days you've got your legs will always run do you know what I mean just run around for us work hard give 100 % and that's what fans want and I think I try to live most of my career like that, to be honest.

34:04Yeah, I had a good relationship with the fans. We'd done well. Unfortunately, I missed a penalty in the play-off semi-finals. But I just had a good connection with the majority of the fans wherever I went, really. So it was a really nice club for me. Were you all right? Because at what age would you have been? Just talking about missing that penalty. Were you all right brushing it off? No, it was tough, to be honest. If I'm being honest, I got away with it because Kermigand had done the chip before us, didn't he? so he got the brunt of it all and like how can you like do that to a fucking 19 year old kid I'm thinking yeah fucking thank god you'd have done that because if I missed the pen I would have been deviled but Stevie Howard like the boys like that mate it was like it was like World War 3 and they're dressing him up as they were going to kill you and like it was mental did the keeper just stay still just no he stood still just yeah popped it down yeah when I'm seeing this guy had the hardest shot in football he had the hardest shot in football and everyone's just thinking he's just going to welly this like he's going to take the goalie with him and the fucker dinks it and everyone's like and I'm thinking mate you've just I'm 19 you've just killed not I didn't think of my age but I'm thinking you've just killed me I've got a score to keep us in it and I was oh yeah it was a tough period because I actually had loved the time there and the fact that that was my last game it was away in Cardiff I didn't really get to see like your loan's up in it essentially in the playoffs like you don't get a chance to see it like to heart anyone didn't get to see nobody from the club nobody from like that was there they helped us all the time packed up my flat and left left all the lads like just up and left and it was quite tough to take as a 19 year old like I had a lot of memories and it was a tough way to end but obviously going back it was I didn't know I was going to go back so quickly but yeah it was nice to go back Who were the first assessment to Jan for the chip?

35:54Fucking who wasn't it was like a cue it was like waiting for a chippy like waiting for the first one to go in to like batter him and like I don't I don't think he came in the dressing room for a while afterwards like the people like even like Nige fuming they're like I think that would say like you just go off to leave him alone for a little bit but like lads like big bonuses on the line for these people like bear in mind they were in League 1 the year before just got promoted to the championship managed to get the semi-finals like we had a real chance to obviously go up and he does this and the lads like it's fucking cost me this all this money wages like everything was on the line for everyone and it was a fucking hostile dressing room afterwards.

36:33I can't even remember him coming in for a long time afterwards. People might be thinking that's harsh because everybody misses penalties, but you just put your foot through it, didn't you? Unless you flip Messi or someone. You're Messi or someone, you've got something about you. But the state of the game or what it is, like, mate, there's just zero signs of him doing anything like that. Mate, six yards out in training, you'd kick the ball, ask any of the GKs, like Connie Logan or Casper or whatever, he would kick it in the face as hard as I could from the dink it in the semi-final it's like what?

37:05Mental Keeper's done his own work and he's known for absolutely levering it I think he stayed middle just because he's going to well yet and he's played right into his hands Did he leave that summer? No so he was back the next year because he'd signed oh it was a frosty pre-season Yeah, can you imagine nobody wanting to run with him or talk to him? I think the fact that obviously, because Nigel left and a new manager come in, a lot of it got swept under the carpet a little bit, but it was, yeah, it was tough. You must have been buzzing when Pearson came back though, were you? Yeah, so Sven was there.

37:41Sven got us on loan to Hull with Pearson, so I went to Hull for a little bit. But I had a bit of a tough time injuries. I went away with the 21s, England 21s. Somebody got injured, I came on after like five minutes, freezing cold. I like, tore my hand me off the bone, so then I had like a bad spell there, came back and I missed about six months of the season like being missed Trett or missed, my rehab was shite, whatever. But now I just then went back to Leicester, so I was unknown from Leicester, I went back, honestly he looked after his class. I got sent unknown again, I like, I wanted to leave, like, because I was one of these, I didn't want to just sit around and be a bench, like I was young, I wanted to go and play, so I was always, then we signed Vardy we signed Nuge Chris Wood Jermaine Beckford was there so we had like a lot of good strikers you feeling yourself so I was just falling down so I was like can I leave he's like no you can't and then I probably started being a bit of a dick in training like young kid immature kicking balls just the usual to just probably tossing training off a little bit looking back now it's probably been a bit of a weapon do you know what I mean and then I eventually got out on loan in the January I think I went to Wigan maybe one of my loans yeah I've got Wigan here I had a spell in Millwall there at some point as well didn't I forgot about them a lot of clubs aren't you by the way on the fly that was a fun one my debut at Wigan we played we played Derby at home at Millwall it came on I scored within like 10 minutes I'm thinking yeah I'm off here go and take a corner for us Millwall fans I work on you I'm thinking are these my fans where's the Derby fans they're battering me yeah I've just scored on my debut like what that was a hostile place to go and play they enjoyed that mentality innit yeah I loved the way they played like proper like just old school footy get forward have a bit of a scrap have a tear up fans loved it when you were a kid going on loan was always exciting like I loved going playing somewhere else and just trying something different like you say I wasn't wanting to go and sit on a bench like I know lads have sat on benches and settled for just go and train go through the motions it wasn't me like I trained 100 % every day and I'd smash people like I'll have a proper go I just loved competing do you know what I mean and if I had to go and move like it probably wasn't help to the family or whatever because it's fucking here there and everywhere I was the whole the UK on me me list do you know what I mean but I just still a young lad here aren't you yeah I was 23 Millwall yeah 23 Millwall no 22 Millwall 23 Wigan then I went to Rangers 25 I'd been a lot of places by I don't know whether that was personality-wise or just disliked my managers.

40:19As I get a bit older, I'm starting to question a bit of both. I feel like I had a good relationship with a lot of managers. I just wanted to go and play. I wasn't happy just not playing. I loved playing and scoring. Did Leicester win the league while you were on loan? Yeah, so when they went up in the champ, I was on loan at Wigan. When we got the same in there. I got playoffs that year as well, but yeah, they went up that year and I left. Did you get a medal then? That's one thing. I've always wanted to... I should have got a medal, but I never got a medal. Mate, that's good. Yeah. That was the same at Sunderland, you know.

40:52Oh, really? When Keane... I left in the January. Yeah. I must have played... I think I played 17, 18 games. I got the bonus from going up. Yeah. But after I was like, haven't you a medal here? I should have had another medal. Yeah. Which would you rather have? You're right, John. You can jump your medal at your half, can't you? Get out of here, I'm both. Yeah. can't imagine your wild t-shirts yeah i wonder if you can you write a strongly worded letter she's like the picture i think so i'm sure she's twitter followers yeah so you you should have gotten one as well did you play enough games i would have i yeah unless i didn't i don't see bonus yeah i got a bonus yeah oh that's why that's why you've not pursued it ever since yeah money's not everything lads we want the memory silverware remember to remember that you never got your medal yeah drowned in it yeah so did you sign under Uwe Rosler so it was a funny story signing with Uwe so mate so I'm trying to get out whatever my agent was close with Uwe it's like are we going to interested in you they were mid-table at the time so yeah I'll meet him I'll have a conversation I'll meet him at some services I don't know I don't know what I can't remember what services station there was but he's very like proper intense like loved the game so detailed and i'm sat there just like am i going to play where do you see he's playing mate he's got like salt and pepper he's got like a bottle of water he's got ketchup in the back three and like he's showing all these formations i'm on burger king's table and he's got like there's frank the truck in his he's like we go there you go there I was thinking yeah let's do it and I've got my sub let's go let's go so like from the first moment my agent was like he's intense but you love him he loves you like loves the way you play whatever spoke really well whatever got there and fuck me he was intense like proper really good really good manager and like got the game but he could lose a lad straight away I think he chopped a few of the lads from the squad straight away he got rid of Holtley up top he was like big personalities I questioned him I didn't do it he just boshed them Was he intense in a good way?

43:14Nah probably too too intense it was one of his first real popular jobs wasn't it did he have Fleetwood beforehand or was he at Brentford was it before Brentford but you had like that Wigan team at the time had big personalities you had like Scotty Carson James Perch like James McLean, Cal McManamon, Ben Watson in midfield, like James McArthur, Jordy Gomez, like it was a big team with a fuller personality so I think it was, for them boys quite older and the creator like, get on with this like, madman was quite intense but we went in there, I was like, I think we were 14th, we went on this mad run and we managed to nick in the playoffs with like three games to go, it was like incredible, everyone's like, I don't know how we're doing this but we're just winning games, we're overrunning teams, It was hard work, but it was full on.

44:02But he started to lose the lads in the pre-season. But is he losing? I mean, he's got the lads on board, really. He's got on that run first of all. Yeah. But we've done so well. But then I think all these older lads were out of contract. So you had a big turnaround to players. And then I think we went to Germany and we played this pre-season game. I can't remember who it was. We got beat. so the next day was meant to be recovery bike cool down day I think we ended up doing about a fucking 40 mile bike ride because he was fuming so like we were just set off in Germany on this road a proper bike ride no a proper bike ride like it turned into like a casual the first and he's like I don't think we've done the first 10k quick enough or something he's like boys it's got to be faster so the lads like turn the wheels turn the wheels and I swear to god about an hour and a half later we're in the middle of the sticks like I was thinking we've got to get back here there's Uwe turned around helmet on just paddling away every past seven we've got to fucking catch up and he's like if anybody doesn't come back within five minutes of my time like carnage so then like half an hour later I get back down the road and everyone's like where the fuck's Cal Mac Cal Mac Manimum he's like somebody had to go back from his bike had broke down but nobody knew where he was he's like I don't fucking ride bikes lad he doesn't know to do the change or nothing.

45:27He just sat down. He sat beside the hood. I think that would be me, though. He's like, I don't want to fix bikes, lad. And he's just like, just sat there. Almost like protesting. Just like, bike there. It was funny, man. I think he just picked his bike up and was like, somebody ought to fix it from. But the running was hard. And he had this drill where you do a bit of shape and that. And you'd have a ball under his arm. And then you'd press the mannequin. and you had like follow him he'd be like mate he would sprint to these mannequins and if not one person sprinted he would like he would dig you out so everyone was like sweating and he'd be like why are you not so Cal and Matt he was like why are you not following me Cal was like I don't know what you're doing lad so the M2 just clashed all the time Cal was a good player but he wasn't like the most tactically aware of what was going on so the M2 just just clashed all the time it was funny but he he was so intense I think he lost a lot of the lads by...

46:24I thought he was brilliant. I thought he was class. What happened when he got sacked, Rossler? I think everyone got wind of what was going on. So we were doing this mental warm-up, just so old school. I think we'd end up doing about 8 or 9k in the warm-up alone. Running across pitchers, roly-poly's, right hand down, left hand down, jump in the air, chest on the floor. I think he was pissed off with me that you thought, I'm going to just annihilate them. I actually got injured I got one-on-one with the keeper I took down I think I dislocated my shoulder at the time I was inside in the treatment room And I see Uwe hobbling in the dressing room And he goes Ah, my cough I think I pulled my cough So he's sat there on the physio bed like this Ice on next to me I'm like Yeah, I got a fight He's like, ah, my cough And the chairman comes down He goes Uwe, can I have a quick word with you?

47:19Dave Whelan Dave Whelan at the time Goes up like half an hour later comes back down the ice on his leg he goes I've been sacked

47:29and like I'm sat there I've got my I've got my sling on his gas in the air I'm like sorry and then I can't I can't even remember I don't know if he went back out or he went he just left but that's that's how I remember him getting sacked and yeah but after that long the water's coming out the bag of the ice. Jibbling up, following him around everywhere. But the thing is, I had a lot of respect from him because I liked the way he played. I loved his intensity. I did. I thought he was crazy. He was mad, but he was a great guy. I generally still speak to this day. I think he's crack, but he was funny, man.

48:14Was it just that he lost the dressing room at that point? Because like you said, you made playoffs. Yeah. He's fallen off a cliff. We lost the dressing room, yeah, and just losing results. And we were losing, we weren't great, to be honest. A lot of changes, we were playing some crap stuff. And yeah, obviously the manager gets it. I just felt pretty awkward when he's walked in and I've been sad. Imagine him with his box, you know, with his stuff in and he's just limping to care. It was sad. You felt sorry for him, but at the time I was thinking, you just made me do fucking roly-polies for about half an hour.

48:50so yeah but the professional though he's still finishing his ice yeah he's still on his 20 minute ice pack I know well I mean red raw yeah I don't think he's left too long who come in after then then Malky come in Malky McKay a lot of good stuff top man top man yeah I got I got I got on my own oh dear but I was I was injured because I had my shoulder I had about like three months out with that so I missed a large chunk of the game time with him. But yeah, if I'm being honest, I didn't really get trained that much of them or come across that much. I just spoke to them and they, you know, I was like, they come in the treatment room every now and then, don't they say, I'm talking, how are you, how are you doing?

49:31It's just like, yeah, sound. But we, again, we were struggling. We were losing still bottom three. Like it was tough for them. And I don't think you really had the impact that you would have probably wanted on the team. And I don't know, I think we were just like in that much of a way of losing. It was really difficult to, even when a new manager came in to get kind of out of it so it was tough I just finished on that relegation so it's obviously not funny I came back from my shoulder I'd planned to have shoulder surgery easy for me to say in the summer but I managed to get back there's like five games left I was like I'm going to try it I'll strap it up get through it I think I came on against Fulham away we got beat up but I came on thought I'd done alright so Gary Caldwell was the manager this time Malke you'd laugh Gary Caldwell how long were you then Malky he's only in for like two or three months yeah if that maybe but top man yeah great guy and I thought I'd done well so I thought I'm going to start Millwall away I think and I might start next game didn't start head loss fuming I come on ten minutes to go go one on one the keeper the keeper comes out slides I catch it I jump up I stand on the keeper's head because I've got like head loss proper stamped on his face on purpose on purpose straight red off obviously the situation the lads are getting rellowed I come on back from four months out straight red like Terence back for me game back I'm getting married in the summer I get done with the week's wages Gaz was like sorry Waggy Cal got done the week's wages earlier in the season for like misconduct he said I'm going to have to do the same I was like Gaz I'm getting married in the summer can you not do that please he's like no I'm going to have to I was like oh for fuck's sake so yeah There was just like a treacherous end to the season for me.

51:19Like the sack in the shoulder, red card, week's wage. Do you want to apologise to the goalie? Oh, no, you deserved it. Eight goalies, fucking idiots. Do me tits in. But yeah, so then the next season come round, we were, I was in Spain, and then Mark Wobberden just got the job in Scotland. with Davey Weir. And they started to sign a few English boys, like Rob Keenan, Wes Froddenham went in there. And then I think my agent knew Mark and showed an interest. And I was like, stay in League One, Wigan, no disrespect, but all go to the Rangers, like a massive club. I was like, yeah, get us out. Do everything I can to get up there.

52:07Rangers in the Championship. So they're in the Championship, yeah. So they went, obviously, third division, well, League Two, League One, Championship. in the field to get out that year so they'd sacked whoever it was I can't remember who it was and they obviously went for a full change I went with Warburton and obviously when you have an interest from someone I was thinking I don't really care where they are like it's a massive club to go and you look up the history and one thing I probably took for granted is I didn't realise how big it was being from like the UK how big going to like Rangers or Celtic was do I mean like it's it's massive it's everything and you do research on the history what they've won the players and the size of the stadium and I'm telling you mate when I first arrived to like the Ibrox to sign I didn't ask to make it it was like fuck me this is like it's a proper club this I never I never really experienced it I think Sunderland's a big club but I was there as a kid so I used to it but when I turned up there I was like fuck this I need to be half decent yeah because it's there's a lot on it Did you not have a fear of sort of going up there and getting lost?

53:11Yes, I did, but... Rangers are big enough of a poll, too. Yeah, a big enough club to... I think if I do... I thought, right, if I do well, yeah, Rangers, then I was thinking like two, three years down the line, if I get promoted, if I do well in the SPL or we're managing to get into Europe, Europe opens another door, essentially, do you know what I mean? So I was thinking, yeah, it's a big risk on the back of having a pretty shitty season. It's probably a good opportunity. I thought, what's going to be worse, going there and getting lost at a big club or having another shit year in League One and we don't do anything with Wigan.

53:42I was probably just weighing them both up and I thought, it's a no-brainer really to try and get up there and have a good year really. Did you hit the ground running? Yeah, so I started off really well. I think I was on about 20 goals by February. So I had a really good year, but then I'd done my PCL. We played Kilmar, Nick, in the Cup. So I went through one-on-one, got a penalty and I've landed on the AstroTurf and I've done my PCL. So I've took this penalty with a snap PCL. I kicked the ball and I felt like my leg wobble. So I've sat down and I was like, I'm done here. So unfortunately, I missed like four months.

54:22Three and a half months. Came back for the, I think it was the Scottish Cup final. Came back for me first game back or second game back. I had a fucking, we had a stink. We were 1-0 up and I think we ended up losing 2-1. I can't really remember. Who was that against? Hibs. We lost to Hibs last minute. because we got promoted like really early we had like I don't know seven or eight games maybe even more we got like the league was done so the whole build up was for this because we beat Celtic in the semi-final that was probably that was probably the worst thing that we could have done is beat Celtic in the semi-final obviously it was an amazing achievement but one it probably kicked them up the arse to get rid of that Ronnie Dyle they brought Brendan Rodgers in the next year so they were probably thinking we need to go again yeah and readdress it because we were Championship Rangers and just turned them over at Hampton like we battered them actually and then the next year we're building up to the final it was just I don't know I think we took the foot off the gas if I'm being honest and probably just thought it's Hibs we've beat them four times already this year we'll do it again do you know what I mean so yeah we were probably a little bit naive in that final I would sorry I would play in a way like no disrespect he's going to probably sound a bit disrespect you know these shitty grounds and against shitty teams.

55:40Mentally, it must be... My debut for Rangers played Alouar Athletic away, Chops is playing for Alouar. Do you know when there's like air bubbles in the Astro, the ball doesn't even run properly, I'm thinking, what the fuck is going on, yeah? So that was bad enough playing the game, I think we might have won, whatever. After the game, we're getting rushed off the pitch by the stewards, like, oh, you've got to come off the pitch now. Thinking, why are we getting rushed off? Just like, play the game. They've rented it out to the local community, so the community are coming on in like quarter to six.

56:08So we're getting mushed out of the stadium so the kids can come and play in the park afterwards. It was mental. It was a real eye-opener at some places, but it was part and parcel of it, I guess, being down there. I suppose it's a proper catch-22, isn't it? You're playing for Rangers when you're playing at Ibrox. Yeah, but what's incredible... Then there's a part of you in them kind of scenarios where you're like, what am I doing here? I mean, mentally, it must be tough. It was tough, but the Rangers, Rangers, I think Rangers and Celtic, they got allocation three quarters of every away ground.

56:40So they took over every grounding anyway. So it just felt like a party really. It was class to the following. It was a joke. When you got promoted, was there an expectation to challenge Celtic? Straight away. I think we only had about 14, 15 days off at the end of the season because they brought in this Bedford Cup League Cup, whatever it was, or some cups. So we only had about 10 proper days off and we were straight back into it. But literally from the moment we won the league, it was like Rangers are challenging Celtic next season. Are Rangers going to win the league? So straight away, the spotlight was on of us to beat Celtic, essentially.

57:20That's all that mattered in Rangers beating Celtic. It doesn't matter. Obviously, they had to beat everyone else, but the old firm was life or death, do you know what I mean? And it was tough. They were good that year. It's hard to admit it, but Brendan came in and signed the Scotty Sinclair. They had a right good go of rejuvenating the squad because I hadn't had to do it for four years. Essentially, Rangers were knowing that level going up, unfortunately. How many times did you play with them that season? Four in the league and one in the Cup five times. I think we drew with them once. Got batted first game that day, placed 5-1 or something.

57:59It was tough. because we signed Joey, didn't we? We signed Joey Barton, Clint Hill, Nico Crenshaw. So we had big personalities and Joey was like spouting his mouth like, oh, we're going to win and beat, like battering Scott Brown in the press, like he's only Scotland, they're going to find Scotland easy and all this. And the gaffer's like, Joey, you need to be quiet. It's not like England, you can't just say stuff. It's getting out there. And Scott gave him the absolute run around and it was a tough, tough day. but yeah it was hard because there was expectation on us week in week out and I think the gaffer found it hard the lads found it hard you struggle with it yeah stuff off the field like I got like fights every other weekend my missus had to like smack a few so we were out we were out in this club in Glasgow it was like a private members club and a bunch of like ten lads come over to us in this club all like Celtic fans having a go at us, whatever.

59:00That's intimidating. Yeah, it was intense. Just showing your missus? A few couples, a few of the other couples were out and that, but it was just me at the time and my missus was seeing us. She's like, what the fuck's going on? Yeah, whatever. And she decks one of the guys and one of the guys stands up. I'm the only rangers finding this because she's decked the only rangers out of 10 lads. But it was tough. There's times at the park shoving my kids over. I got followed out of like a chip shop once there's a video online just just get just getting just pure abuse um followed out of a chip shop yeah so about so i went went and bought a chippy for family and that on an evening one night and then some fans had like started giving a shit for yourself as well yeah no no no i got salad in that night but that's a sausage from my own yeah and it got followed and yeah i reacted like what the fuck are you doing like i said something to him on the camera and it was just really really hard like being like a working class person dead family orientated like quite private in that that sense at the time like it was really difficult to be that exposed i i played a game one time i went to the shopping bought like a pop into a mars bar something got in the press like welcome preparation for the weekends is like popping chocolate and it was it was it was so it was so intense was that before or after you were caught with a I'm fully chippy.

1:00:27No, that was, so that was the second season. When things aren't going great, they started to dig up everything. Yeah. So it was hard. They're good games to play, aren't they? Incredible. The first one I witnessed, I was injured for the semi-final that we won at Hampden. It was the best atmosphere I've ever been in. And then the Parkhead game, first game was, the first game the next season was class. But they've changed it now. The seating arrangement's different, but the first match at Ibrox, Celtic are going to get the all. all over the one end. I can't describe you the noise of like, when you go to the stadium and you can't hear anything, I'm telling you the noise is deafening for 90 minutes.

1:01:06It's incredible. And you get smashed or you get nailed or something. The row is, it's classmate. It's never experienced anything like it. Would you say Barton was a positive influence on the change room or a negative? No, he was wild. I think he spent more time in the gaffer's office than he did fucking playing at the time. hard one because I got on well with him as an individual I spoke to him quite well but he was just he had his own ways I think he came in and we were doing set plays one day and we had ways of doing set plays like the way Davey we had doing it and everyone was on board and Joey was like I don't do it that way we didn't do that at Burnley we don't do this so he just clashed and everything and then he would disagree with like the way the training was or you get megged in training he grips people up in training you know like you're just like the gaffer that joey can't go on like this and you talk about rangers in the press or he'd i think he just thought it was going to be so much easier than what it was and it was hard he eventually got he left after like three months then he got sacked or something or something happened within the board and yeah they terminate his contract because he just there's an argument every single day i got to the point where like your train in the gaffer would be like wobbling on the side be like shaking and said he'd be like joey in my office mate and then they were just like they were like getting torn off by their head teacher like they were just fucking just trudging together like come on and like three hours later they would come back down and yeah it was just I think it was hard because like you had Kenny Miller Lee Wallace like big personalities of Rangers that like were Mr Rangers essentially and then Joey knew what it meant yeah come in and like started giving it big and whatever I'd done this so I think there was a clash there between player wise and then it was hard for the gaffer I was stuck between The Rock and The Hard Place really Well, you said the lads didn't like him then?

1:02:56Yes and no. I think complete split camp. Scottish lads probably hated him. English lads got on all right with him, but he was a bit of a dick. But on his day, he was all right. He could speak to anyone. I think he just had a lot of stuff going on as well. I think he struggled off the field himself with a lot of stuff. Didn't get into it too much. You're probably aware of some stories in the way he is now, whatever, and some of his interviews. I've seen bits of that when I played with him, but you don't really sit down in dressing rooms and have deep conversations with his last day. It's very surface level, isn't it?

1:03:26So he was all right. Got on well with him, but in the manager's office must have been a different story. But were Warburton quite strong with him, though? I'd probably say probably not strong enough. So good, so good, so good. New summer arrivals are at Nordstrom Rack stores now. Get ready to save big with up to 60 % off brands like Rag & Bone, Levi's, Adidas, and Free People. Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first, and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. They say you can tell a lot about a person by the contents of their freezer.

1:04:09So, what does a bottle of Jägermeister say? It says you have standards. You don't cut corners. And you like your Jägermeister shots the way they're meant to be enjoyed. Ice cold. As for the frozen taquitos and mystery leftovers, we'll keep that between us. Drink it cold, or don't drink it at all. Jägermeister. Damn, that's cold. Drink responsibly. Jägermeister liqueur, 35 % alcohol by volume. Imported by Masked Jägermeister, U.S. White Plains, New York. Did you ask to leave? Did you want to come back down south? So I fell out with Wobberdon, so I was struggling with stuff off the field. Not going into it too much, but yeah, I was struggling.

1:04:47And then he left. He got sacked. Green Murty came in, got a little bit better. Then we brought in this Pedro Kachina guy. Pre-season was like in at six o 'clock, train, breakfast, train, lunch, train. He was like old school. and they signed when I'm saying they signed a couple of strikers Alfredo Morellas do you remember him Alfredo Morellas him another guy I can't even remember his name sounds bad so I like fell down the picking order but he was alright so I wanted to say I was like Pedro I'm fourth choice now whatever can I leave I've got an offer from down south I want to go I want to go back down essentially and he was like yeah not a problem if they can get this fee I'll let you go I remember I had no word of lie I think I had my car packed for about two weeks ready to ready to get to get down because it just dragged on for whatever reason and then it was it was if switch at run for us and mc mccarthy car was packed and it got a grade and then i drove down to ipswich through the night at glasgow i left glasgow like 11 o 'clock drove to ipswich i had to be there for nine o 'clock went drove stayed down signed trained we had Luton this was a Monday we had Luton in the cup the next day drove straight to Luton I was just I was just that relieved to kind of get out the situation and go and play again I hadn't slept for like 24 hours and then got the Luton game out the way trained Thursday Friday we do Old V Young Yellow Bib Mick McCarthy and I had an absolute stink I would now say I have one of the worst sessions so we do the session whatever and the gaffer pulls us in and goes if you ever train like that again is my number nine you'll not pay again for this club like I know you're a great lad you've had a tough week it's been long that is completely unacceptable you are never ever paying for me again if you perform like that again I was like yeah totally agree I was crap when I say that I had a nuke couldn't control the ball couldn't hit the target nothing I just had a stinger nuke but then straight away we got on straight away like what a great guy and essentially I thank him a lot for like where I went on to go in my career like just so supportive the way he trained we got on we got in class he's a great guy like from being out of favour at Rangers yeah you've trajectory again aren't you at Ipswich leading goal scorer it's funny the conversation so me agent rang Mick about me wages or whatever and I'm sure the conversation was something like fucking that much he's fucking done nothing for 18 months he best be worth his fucking money by the way so my agent was like I think you might need to perform down here because they're fucking not happy with what you're paying but then like as the season gone on I think Mick McCarthy in the interview says it's the best fucking 200 grand he's ever spent or whatever so that was that was quite nice reassuring and then yeah I think again I had maybe 12 goals in the champ by Christmas nearly double of figures assists I just had a really good year again and I was good Mick left the end of that the end of that season there's a lot of stuff going on off the field and I was really settled.

1:07:56I wanted to stay there, I wanted to play there and yeah, he ended up leaving and I left the following, I left that summer, yeah. I know they've come back now but at that time it was a disgrace the treatment he got, wasn't it? Mental. I couldn't believe it. And I think he tolerated it for so long but it got to the point where I think we were like eighth and the fans are still keying in him or having a go at him and he's just like, I'm on this budget, whatever, I'm always competing playoffs. I totally get his frustrations, but it's just bizarre because obviously they got Hurst in, got relegated, and he makes a joke about it, doesn't he?

1:08:33But I can't get my head around the way clubs and fans do stuff at times. Yeah, it's baffling because we were probably ready to then go again next year with maybe a couple of other players. The squad was settled, really, which needed maybe one or two other players, and he would have got them because of who he was, essentially. Imagine if there's a manager that likes you. and playing you, and you're doing well, and then that manager goes. There's been a lot who have been fucking buzzing that's not going. Yeah, not only you're like, it doesn't affect us that much, I'm not that arsed, but even when he left, when he got, when someone were bottom of the, I mean, they were the lowest ever points.

1:09:09The training ground was just, everybody, players, staff, was just gutted. Yeah. When Mick left some man. I see, he had such an impact, like you say, again, I think this speaks volumes when people at the stadium, trainer going, it has a massive effect on them and it tore the club apart. One of the biggest parties I had was when Malky got potted at Gardive. I'd been left fucking 18 months and there were eight fucking knees up. What was the crack with Middlesbrough? Did you nearly sign for them? Yeah, so that was almost done. So basically, Hurst came in, Paul Hurst came in, we didn't clash, but I told him, we had a night out in Spain on pre-season I was like I'm not paying for you essentially who you brought in is crap so he how many drinks have you had?

1:10:00no he was dead open like we'll speak about it to this day and like him and his assistant Doigie but what he'd done he came in we had a good year and his Shrewsbury team he came in he's like my Shrewsbury team would have beat you a lot last year he's I think so on straight away he set off on the wrong foot so give him a chance whatever but a couple of pre-season games like here's the game I'm not playing for you I'm going like I've got interested in this he's like yeah yeah sound whatever long story short like the longer it went on Borough came in for us Sheffield United came in for us Ipswich owner Marcus Evans I think it was got as close with Gibson at Borough so that essentially got agreed and I didn't know about it so first game of the season I can't remember we might have been Blackburn I think I got left out and Tony Mowbray he's the manager I might have been Blackburn at the time he goes I've heard you've signed for Borough I was like have I?

1:10:54he's like my house is for sale back home if you want to go and take it off I was like Tony I don't even know if I've signed for Borough so I finished the game ring the chairman he's like yeah you're going to Borough I was like I don't want to go to Borough I think Derby had rang that morning I said I want to go to Derby because they played Friday night spoke to me and Saturday morning, Derby are in for us. I'm like, I don't want to go to Borough. He's like, you're going to Borough? I was like, I'm not going to Borough. I had a conversation with Tony Poulis, so this is probably why. He rang, he's like, hi Waggie, Tony here.

1:11:30I was like, nice to speak to you, Tony. I was saying, he's like, I'm looking forward to seeing you, training Monday. Speak to you later, bye. And that was the conversation. I rang Major, I'm not going there. the most demoralising conversation I've just had. And then I speak to Frank on the other hand, like energy is unbelievable. Like this is what we're going to do. We're going to be here. I've come in so excited. I've watched you play all last year, seen all your clips. So I ring Mark and say like, I'm not going borough. He's like, you're going borough. He said, if you don't go borough, the deal's off.

1:12:01I'm not selling you and you can stay here. And I ring Major and I was like, fuck, like I want to go Derby. But Major was like, sit tight. Don't worry. I'll get the deal done. So mate, when I say, when I say I'm sat on the couch, sweating for about 48 hours. I am on the couch, pacing the room up and down. I genuinely couldn't leave the house because I wanted to work so much. Mate, it was life-changing. Everything that was happening was life-changing for my family. I was like, I can't afford for this deal to go through. I was like, I'm going to have to go to Borough. Me and John were like, I'm going to have to go to Borough.

1:12:32He was like, you're fucking not going to Borough. Trust us, I'm going to get you to Derby. And was it all from that conversation? Yeah, I couldn't. It didn't sit right. Everyone's going, you're going home, you're going back up north. I was like it was more than that like I just didn't feel it was right and then the conversation with Frank I've had just night and day I want to go and play for him he's a legend isn't he like this is somebody that I want to go and play for the thing is Tony will have done his own work on you as well he'll have done all that he'll have done all that I think it was just the timing he's going out of training yeah I'll speak to you later I've heard you coming down I don't know I just didn't get I imagine being told that you're going somewhere as well can get you back on it yeah I couldn't I couldn't believe it you know nothing about it somebody else says I knew they were in for us, but like, yeah, I've heard you going.

1:13:14So unless people were talking about it in the scenes, I was like, am I? Like, yeah, mental. Financially, was it much better? It was better at Borough. Was it? Yeah. But I just wanted to go and play for Frank and Derby. Then I got the call, mate. Honestly, it was the happiest fucking phone call I've ever had. Obviously, being from Wimbledon, whatever, I know there's going to be a lot of change going on, but yeah, it was life changing. The drive up there, it was fucking, it was class. Literally singing all the way in the car music, bastard, like this. It was class. Just going back a little bit, have you had a conversation with the manager where you've said, your signing's a shit, I'm not, I don't fancy it.

1:13:53What was the context? The context was, he's like, why do you want to leave? So you'd already said you want to leave? Yeah, I told him to the pre-season games already that I wanted to go. Take away from the manager, whatever, it was nothing to do with the club. I got told already out there that I was going to get sold. like I had value in us and the chairman wanted the money back paying 200 grand and I think they got like 5 mil for it so I think he was adamant to sell us anyway so this has nothing to do with the club itself or whatever it was purely the manager and I was honest with him I was like I don't want to be here I've got interest in this from better clubs I've been told that I'm getting sold so I'm going essentially and So the wheels were already in motion I just had visions of you just after a few drinks on this pre-season gaffer let's have a word over an apple sour he pulled me over and the captain was here he's like what can I do to make you stay I was like well a couple of players got big deals at the time and I didn't get it at the end of the year I think Didsy might have had it or I'm not sure I don't know but Spart the goalkeeper might have had it I was like well that deal fucking should have been mine essentially so if you want to give us one of those then I might stay they're alright actually he's like we'll give it a go We're like, we're not doing that.

1:15:10I was like, well, it's not all about the money, but this is life-changing. I've got teams that are in for us, and the squad's completely different to how it was last year. I've seen, I'm just not happy here. He's like, yeah, all right, fair enough. I was like, yeah, sound. He's like, do you want another pint? I was like, yeah. Is that the sound? Do you think he came in trying to be authoritative, but just did it in the talk the wrong way? Yeah, completely wrong way. You're coming from Shrewsbury to Ipswich. and I get it because I think people come and managers come places or go to the clubs and I think they want to stamp the authority and I do get it it must be hard maybe taking that step up because it's a big club a lot of expectation I think you want to make an impression don't you but I think some people don't know how to do it or they might not do it in the right way I've actually spoke to them since then and say how things are handled was probably the wrong way but I wanted to move you wanted your way I wanted my way it's footy essentially isn't it people do what we've got to do to get enough what they want and he he wanted to do what he done so yeah i think he he done it he had his way of doing it i just think he done it done it wrong at the time and i didn't want to be a part of it essentially frank live up to your expectations yeah quality the the environment that he caused that he yeah that he caused was was the probably the second best dressing room put on the best dressing room like winners mentality cut all like the people out that he didn't want a part of.

1:16:35I joined late in pre-season, so I missed all their pre-season. A few of the lads with the 21s he got rid of. He brought in Tamori, Wilson, Mason Mount, I signed, Jack Marriott signed. Just training was a completely different level to anything I've experienced, like the dressing room, the club. It just felt like, obviously you go to Rangers for Stachan, whatever, but he brought like this mentality to the club like you don't lose like you win you work hard you like it just like felt like a proper club again and what a great person and what a lovely guy he was he was class everything on the field off the field I wasn't I went in there didn't perform great when I first came in I had a conversation after the break like he's like I love you respect you as like yeah I was like I need to work hard I need to do more to get in his team was like yeah i trust you i know you will and i got back in the team worked hard he was just like he got like how players and personalities weren't he's like he had his fair few disagreements he said and falling out whatever but he respected hard work and people that would would own it and like stand up for it and i think i done that and i think that's why we got on we got on quite well just remember that semi-final against leeds did you play both games no so i i was injured for the for the both for the both legs so I scored in the game to nail to get in the playoffs I scored the first goal there when I fingered but I missed both legs but I was in I was in the way end for the Leeds game I was in the with the fans it was fucking it was mental what a night that's probably that's probably the best night as a fan I've had as a as a football fan watching that match just the emotions and what was on it and how we've done it because it was Spygate that year as well.

1:18:29So obviously they came spying on us. We played them. Were you aware of any of it? No, so we seen like security of one around the thing. And this is just a Leeds fan just fucking lying down in the bushes. But we were training because I think it was the day before a game. I think it was the day before we played them. But that was that. Was he in a Leeds shirt? Yeah, he was in trackie. Trackie? Little trackie, yeah. You might have had a Leeds club car. That could have been like a vicious rumour. I didn't say that. Pissed Paul if it is, innit? Yeah. The track's all bad enough, we're not in the car.

1:19:01He ain't giving a job with a guy five, is he? But they had that, then we went to their place. I think we got turned over off them again at their place. Just the way the whole season was set up with Leeds, they got beat at their place, they battered our changing rooms, they took the piss out of our place in the first leg. So when we turned them over, it was fucking incredible. the state that we left that dressing room in was wild really. It was shocking, but great night. Did you get fit for the final then? Yeah, so I got back for the final. Gutted I didn't start, if I'm being honest. I understand why I didn't start.

1:19:40Me and Jack Murray, Jack Murray came on, scored two goals, didn't he? Done really well. But he essentially chose the same team that done what they'd done in the semis. So I kind of got it. but yeah, it was a tough one because I was fit. I just said, just give us 60 minutes or let us just run out, gas out for as much as I could, but he just chose the other team and unfortunately we're lost. Did you get on? Yeah, I got on. There was a bit of a controversy over the goal, so Jack Marriott gets the goal, it's on the right run now, Jack Marriott gets the goal, but it actually hits me on the way in, so I go off celebrating a kid scored at Wembley and Jack Murray gets the goal which I was officially officially gets the goal when you're getting your medal put that at the bottom of the email P.S.

1:20:31I also scored I wasn't going to give that to me but no I feel when me and Jack came on there was just two strikers focal points and if we had five more minutes I think we would have got a goal for a draw and who knows what would have happened if Sinans and all that but what a day it was a shame because our squad should have really went up if I may be honest we had some team How did you greet Rooney when he come in? So Rooney Captain you this week Can you remember when I met you in that closet? No so when so Philip Kotgau Frank left Philip Kotgau took over then everyone was like I think we played Huddersfield away we first gave him the season and the news is coming through when they're like the lads chat Wayne Rooney's signing for Derby like no chance no chance of fucking Rooney coming yeah and then next morning I think we went for recovery he comes in the dressing room like just barge in the dressing room like introducing himself like yeah I'm coming from DC I'm signing and we were like what the fuck Wayne Rooney's in the dressing room you didn't have a big lollipop in the dressing room no I didn't but yeah honestly just the most surreal like 48 hours obviously the talk of it all coming in and then in being there, it was mental.

1:21:52And then to play alongside him, we got on really well. Like, we used to play PlayStation with him. He was just a good, one of the lads, good guy. Were you still, obviously, everything you've achieved playing, were you still a bit in awe? Yeah, I think everyone was. It was only natural, like, it's fucking Wayne Rooney. I've been looking to play with some really good players, but when I've seen somebody come in and, like, dictate training and how the game is played, I've never seen anything like it. His knowledge, the way he sees the game, his ability. As a player? As a player. When he came in as a player?

1:22:29When he came in as a player, yeah. So very similar to what Joey Barton's done, but in a positive way. But he had the right way of doing it, yeah. Honestly, the way he spoke, he's a bit like a golfer. I can hit this shot. If I want to do this pass, I'll hit it this way. If I want to take a free kick. So we used to do a free kick game. and he used to just go three free kicks this day and whatever, he'd be like, oh yeah, I'm just going to do this straight little dipper and just put it in the stanch or I'm going to do it this way in the stanch. I've never seen anybody hit a football the way he hit a football with so much which it was incredible to watch.

1:23:04And it'd be like, so what a really big learning lesson was for me, so I would be in shape against him, whatever and he played as a sixth inning he dictated, so he's like, Waggy, I'm going to play the game for 10 minutes in the shape, you'll not get anywhere near us, but I'll talk to you afterwards, like how I done it. And when I say like, he knew how the game was going to go before the game was even started. It was phenomenal. I was like, how the fuck are you? He's like, one, because I know how striker plays. I know what you do. He's like, you weren't as good as me. Like, I know how I'm going to do it.

1:23:36It's just the way he received it, what he's going to do. Mate, he was zing balls. Like he was going to hit it over there and you're just like, was it this way? And like, everyone's like, where the fuck's that ball come from? he was a joke he was like yeah I just I don't know how I just see the game in a different way I just know how to do it I know what's going to happen That's not even his proper position either was it? To be able to be who he was to do that it was so much ease it was frightening and on that note before about baldy smashing someone we had a young lad Jason Knight and Waza's doing possession we're doing this small side of the game in the 90s like young kid from Ireland and he nails Waza.

1:24:15When I'm saying he launches into Waza, everyone's like, what is going to happen, yeah? Waza just stands up and shakes off. Night use class, just gets up, looks at him, gets up and just runs away. Waza, at the end of the session, he just goes, fucking love that. That was the best thing any kid could ever do to us. I've got so much respect. I think he made him captain the next year or something. Just loved him, mate. He just loved that personality. he stand up and smashes like yeah i'm all for it so he's class because some all the pros could flip at that yeah yeah but mate he would he would kneel was i would still nail people like stand on you and like he just hated losing so he i think it's just the way he was when he like and he just he just loved it so when you're at that level and you're playing with players who are not as good as you which obviously basically nobody else is but what is actually like i'll help you or you need to be better than that.

1:25:09No, he would dig you out afterwards, but like in a good way, but like he got it, you understood that. I think he knew he wasn't like on obviously his peak physical level or whatever. So I think he accommodated in some sense, but he got the best out of it. We were poor at the time and when he came in, he left over, went on quite a good run. He just brought the levels of like training up, the game up. And I think we probably, well, I did as a player, I think I can't fucking go on the pitch with Rooney and be shy, do you know what I mean? So I think everyone's kind of, personal pride at State to a certain level and everyone kind of got on board with it.

1:25:41He had a massive impact when he first came in and he got us to a good spot again. Because that's understanding on a personal level and characters, isn't it? Because we've heard numerous times about players of a certain level getting frustrated. You'd never dig anybody out or it was never personal or you'd never be addicted. I would say openly, you'd never criticise anyone. If you were shit, you would tell you. and that's fine, that's just the way it was. And yeah, we played looting away once and we were getting battered. And we had the assistant Liam Racine at the time and Waza's coming fuming, like just belted the table and the tea and mug coffee station, whatever, the milk jugs just went flying all over Rosie.

1:26:29And Waza's fuming, kicking off, whatever. And Rosie's standing there and just milk, dripping off his nose and Raza like catches his eye like nailing the lads Raza like catches his eye starts to smirk he's like Rosie fucking wipe your nose oh mate it was so funny because it was such a serious moment and like Rosie's like doing this and like just water milk dripping off his nose oh mate but like but then he'd but then he'd like he'd laugh at me like come on lads like that wasn't good enough let's go again so you dig you out but you're never too serious with the man he was funny man funny I remember outside looking in that Young was a sitting duck when he signed as a player he was struggling to get a result you thought he's got his name written all over his job he was always going to get in when he essentially he was always going to get in I remember you slaughtering Derby because you stayed up didn't you and it was like you got promoted so we got playoffs the second year second year we were shit And then the third year, when Raz was in charge, we stayed up last day of the season.

1:27:36We beat Chef Wed at home. Probably one of my personal favourite days as a footballer that day. But we were knowing, yeah, good enough for the team and what Derby expects and who we had and what we'd done. We were shite, to be honest. I actually had a really shit year as well. But it was just one of those times where you couldn't run the results together. Yeah, it was tough. But we managed to stay up. Yeah, we were really poor. On that, I don't really think you can celebrate like you've won promotion for staying up. Because you've obviously been shit, haven't you? Yeah, yeah. Just not as shit as three other teams.

1:28:18I think you can if you've scored the goal that keeps them up, though. Yeah, I enjoyed it. Personally, I scored two to stay up that day. But, yeah, we celebrated with the fans a little bit, but then put some perspective on it. We've stayed in the league. It's no win, yeah, good enough. So it was quite an anti-climax because we were like, should we go out? And everyone was just like, no, we're just going to go home and chill out. Actually, it's not that big of an achievement really. So yeah, it was a bit of an anti-climax. Did he really have that mentality as well? Was he like, come on? Yeah, no, he was buzzing because we obviously stayed up and whatever.

1:28:56But he knew deep down it wasn't good enough. and I think we're in between the lines now. I think externally there's stuff going on because we struggled financially the year after that. Yeah, there was stuff going on and then we eventually got relegated. Were all that a knock-on from Frank's team? Yeah, so... They had a proper bash with Frank's team. Yeah, I think financially it all stemmed down from then. Just missed out and then... Just missed out the money and then obviously money stops. And I actually think was I paid for a lot of stuff, trips and hotels and food and stuff, he fucked out quite a bit and nobody really knows about it.

1:29:31But yeah, I think he actually helped the club a bit himself, which is incredible really. But it all stemmed from, yeah, probably the Franks team. Off the back of that penalty, keeping the club up, was that your last game as well? So, yeah. So I was negotiating a new deal before COVID came. That got put in the back burner. I was like, yeah, Sam, we'll get the season out of the way. Blah, blah, blah. but a new contract never came round and then I got to quite late in the window. I hadn't signed anywhere. I was speaking to the club and they were like, we can't financially do anything at the minute.

1:30:09One day they said, Bargo, we can only do three. I was essentially free, but I was like, I'm sorry, I was actually building a house, getting settled, I've got a couple of offers, I'm probably going to have to move on. They were like, yeah, it's the way it is. like from that like I never went back into the club again like I thought I was just going to be there so all my stuff was there I ended up signing for Coventry quite late in the window and but if I'm being honest it's something that I never really want to do I didn't want to leave Derby I just not my hand was forced but I had to make a decision to like for my family and to move on and be like yeah I'm gonna have to to leave and yeah it was as soon as honestly as soon as I left it sounds bad I just me agent I was like next opportunity I can to get back I need I need to go back really and yeah it was it was tough.

1:30:58Did you see Jokeres winning the award for the best striker in Europe in four years time when you played with him? Mentality wise yes he was a machine ability wise at the time no I could go on for days about me fucking time with carving the arguments that I had with the manager and stuff. Vic was unbelievable. His attitude, work rate, like everything that he'd done, I could see him being a top striker. No way did I think within like three years you'd be like at Sporting, Champions League, whatever. But his drive and his will to want to be, yeah, he was so focused, like I am going to be the best.

1:31:43And I was like, yeah, all right, mate, yeah, good luck, whatever. and um yeah well yes and no he said it with that much conviction he was like mate when he trained he was evil he was just like he had this look you've seen him play he had this look in his eyes he's like i'm gonna kill you like he's mad but he he believed in himself and yeah incredible what what a great guy as well he's he's he's a funny guy um but he trained like every day was fucking the last day he's going to play footy. And the gaffer's like, fucking got the game tomorrow, Vic. He's like, no, no, I need to score five goals. No, I need to score this.

1:32:23I need to do this. He was just, he was relentless. And it's all down to hard work and fairness to him. He was a machine, right? Could you not get on with Mark Robbins? Fucking how long we got. Robbins was a weird one. So I've left Derby. Heard Coventry in for us. I met him, so he lives in Derby. I met him at the Starbucks on the roundabout down the bottom from his house. We have a great chat. How I see myself, I communicate, I help, I talk, I play the game as I'm in it. I see it, I speak how I'm in it. He's like, yeah, that's what we need. We've come up, we've just stayed up. We've got young Vic, we've got Matty Gordon, we've got Tyler Walker.

1:33:05We need a bit of experience to help. And I was like, this is perfect, this is my role. He's like, you might not play every game, but you may be nine, whatever. I was like, not a problem, I'm like, great, sounds perfect. So then, without going, like, fucking so PC, whatever, like, we had a clash with the COVID injection, so that, we had a bit of beef there. The assistant manager, so I'm talking, like, oh, Vic, there's a bit of a talking, like, as a striker would to your mates or whatever, the assistant stops as AD Vivas, we and him clashed as well. are you the manager, are you the coach I was like no I, he was like well fucking shut up then, I was like who are you talking to, I was like I'm just trying to he was like do you want the whistle are you the, mate just like and then I felt like the gaffer never really backed us in that situation, I was like you've signed us to like do this role and now I'm getting fucking annihilated for doing it, like how how fucked up is that kind of thing you're going to say anything, he's like nah just listen to him, I was like well know so like we just put it head straight away and I don't think he's I don't think he's a bad person I just think like it he had a bit of control over him and he just he just ran the sort of show essentially and and he's a dick vivash do you come across him no yeah he's a head you know he's a dick no I said oh I mean it and he is a dick yes no it weren't my opinion and he's a dick do you know what wagging up like him is a dick no yeah essentially but I didn't I think I was so blinded because it was weird because he'd be like I'm going to have a word I think I can get you back in the team but essentially he was just fucking talking shite to us do you know what I mean and he was fucking the mug me having to go up the gaffer but it was probably the two of them and then we just clasped on so much like yeah fuck yeah tough time I don't think it was him per se, but we just didn't get on.

1:35:07Yeah, funny. Have you still got your eyes on getting back to Derby at some point? My contractor was running out at Coventry. I had a short spell out of Huddersfield, came back. My contractor was up, but Blackpool were in for us, but I wanted to go to Derby, so I was just fucking playing the game. I was speaking to the manager, Paul Warren, and I was speaking to Alex Critchley at Blackpool, I agreed everything there. I had more years there more money whatever I was like Gaffa had like warning I was like I want to come to Derby but you're fucking making this hard work and he's like well it's fucking up to you so I was like right I'm going I'm going Blackpool I'm going to pack the car I'm going to go now so I was driving in the car I was ringing him I'm fucking going Blackpool I can see the tower I can see it it ended up becoming a bit of a running joke because like you weren't fucking going Blackpool you weren't fucking our car park were you I was like, yeah, I'm driving to the training ground again.

1:36:03You're making seagull noises. Donkey bells. I got me fish and chips again for fucking majors. I got them for back pool. But no, I always wanted... So weirdly, how it worked out essentially is Craig Forsyth is his testimonial. But they were playing Stoke in a testimonial match and they got like me, Dave Nugent back, Craig Bryson, Bradley Johnson. and so we all played in this testimonial for him and I actually done alright because I could fucking still play, do you know what I mean? And the conversation's kind of semi-snowboard from there and I got invited to come and train with the lads for a couple of weeks.

1:36:41Mate, at this point I was running around like a local park and kids are fucking breaking up from school. I'm playing fucking 5-0s with kids in the fucking park and I'm thinking, someone's got to change, I need to try and get into a club and train again. And luckily I had this testimonial, done alright, invited us into training and then once I was in, I thought once I'm in, I'm going to sign. Do you know what I mean? I was honestly buzzing to be back. I had a lot of lead from Fuzzy's testimonial, so I've got to still thank Fuzzy to this day for that. I need to ask you about Fotheringham, man. Is that true?

1:37:12Fotheringham, Huddersfield. Do you know what? I remember being in a YouTube hole, just watching Mark Fotheringham press conferences. He's just Moorish, isn't he? Yeah, he's a comedy gold, isn't he? But weirdly, before I signed for Huddersfield, we were in Portugal and Huddersfield were there and they were doing this training session. When I'm saying there's this training session, this was like fucking Huddersfield. Harry has running around his footy pitch. They were doing this end-to-end phase of play when the lads are goosed, mate, and it's like, more, I need more, I need more. You just, you're relentless.

1:37:46English or Scottish or German accent. Scottish, German, English, the full camaraderie of it all, I think, to be honest. And then my agent rings us. so my agent rings and saying Huddersfield are in for you and I fell out with Carver at this time so I've waived like a lot of bonuses like the gaffer's like you're not going until you pay you've got your this like I don't care like I want to go and leave I'll give you my money I'm not really arsed so I give the club the money went to Huddersfield with Father Nermil and met Kenny Miller so I knew Kenny Miller he was his assistant he's like are you ready for this I was like ready for what he's like it's fucking hard I was like could have told us this fucking two weeks ago so yeah I was like, yeah, I am ready for that.

1:38:27I'm desperate to get out, ready to play in that again. But here's another one. He was so intense. But with Uwe, there was kind of a method behind the madness. But with Mark, like, I didn't really see the method behind the madness, if that makes sense. Just madness. Yeah, just madness. And he was full on. But when he spoke to him on an individual level, it was really good. Like, the information was good. I think, yeah, this is good stuff. but the translation from off the field on the pitch, everyone was just like all over the shop. And I think, again, in an environment, you lost the lads straight away.

1:39:06And once you do that with the running, the information, everything that's going on, it's hard to pull it back then. It's really difficult. That's the most, talk's a good game, don't it? Yeah, yeah. And you just said there, he'll say the right things, but then you get on the trainer pitch and you're like, what the fuck's this? What's going on, yeah. it was like just bodies everywhere like and just people running left right and centre see that must be hard for Kenny as well because Kenny's got to implement what the gaffer wants but knowing full well really fucking this is out I think Kenny's on board with it I do and weirdly they did compliment each other really well but it just didn't it just didn't work again going into a club where we're down the bottom it's probably not what you need you just need somebody to steady the ship really which is what we got with Neil Warner coming in top, top tier.

1:39:54That's what the club needed. They didn't need like a madness. Yeah, they didn't need everything all over the shop. They were quite a basic team in terms of what they were, like very drilled 4-4-2. Like that's what they were. They just didn't need bodies flying everywhere. If we knew more about our sleep, what would we do differently? Would we go to bed at a consistent time or take steps to reduce interruptions to our sleep? With Sleep Score, Apple Watch measures your bedtime consistency, interruptions, and sleep duration. Then, every morning it combines these factors into an easy-to-understand score from 1 to 100.

1:40:28So you'll know how to take the quality of your sleep from OK to very high. Know your sleep score with Apple Watch. iPhone 11 or later required. What was the story about going back? Did you just turn up? Yeah. We might as well sign him. The Derby one, yeah. So, yeah, essentially, basically. It's a car back again. I had like a two-month spell at Northampton. So I played Northampton. I actually announced my retirement in February. Done a high rocks. I was just like pottering like the next steps or whatever. I went to a derby game. And I went down to the pitch side to see the lads. Seeing like Jeff Henrik, he'd just been signed.

1:41:06Yeah, seeing Fozzie, like a few of the old lads chatting away. And then used to be the gaffer comes out and he goes, Hi, Waggie, how you doing? I was like, yeah, great. He's like, what are you doing? I was like, honestly just chilling. Like, got a high rocks next week. He's like, come in and train. I was like oh you see I've just retired like not really what I want to do he's like don't be fucking daft we need players like you and around the place so if you're sure I'm like yeah I'll ring you tomorrow so he's like yeah no that was it so I rang my agent I was like is this fucking real like is this happening he's like I think so he's texted us saying there's Waggy coming in on Monday I was like I'll ring him yeah I guess I'm going to have to ring him he's like Waggy spoke to Storzy like the player lays on everything sorted your kit's going to be ready see you tomorrow morning 9 o 'clock I was like well I've got to drop the kit he's like yeah not a problem see you when you get in so come in mate it was unbelievable mate I was like I was like a cheerleader I was playing table tennis I was playing pool I was fucking was this a paid role?

1:42:05yeah I signed a short term deal to essentially train and like just fucking be about the place be about the place but like what he loved like I spoke to you he's like I'm going in there to like fucking get the lads going essentially like I don't like losing and like I don't like where the club is whatever he's like yeah that's what I need I need you to like drive standards or like yeah I was I was flying around training like nailing people like getting onto people and it's what you what you wanted you want like the experience me Jeff Henrik Eric Peters you needed like players like that to keep driving training and I fucking loved it I loved the place and I knew a lot of the lads from like my second time I was there it was just easy to just slip in and like just bring a good bit of energy like I had a laugh off the pitch but when I trained like I was nailing people in you want you want you want the people yeah so yeah I was just like absolute not a problem five was loved it it's almost like bringing a fan in yeah squad but can play a lot I won the lucky dip last weekend so I'm coming in for a few weeks sponsor a fan are they talking another year for this year?

1:43:16no nah come on youngster there's time yeah you've never lost a couple of weeks I tell you what I went last night I tried to have another conversation no in fairness the training role it's a good little gig and you see some ex-players like Tom Widdleston like Jay Spear and they've done like the B team 21's coaching it's not something I would be opposed to if I'm putting it out there if anybody's watching no like it's a good little gig like because you get trained still stay active staying around the environment you learn like I'm doing my coaching stuff so it is a good one but I've just not really kind of pursued it as such yet so we'll get you a job now a couple of laps at car park after this you'll be in I'm not fit enough.

1:44:00I've done the high rocks. I'm fit. I'm ready to go. See if he wants a non-playing member. Yeah, a non-playing. Yeah, okay. It's only an hour for me. Morale booster. Team spirit. Yeah. It goes a long way, that team spirit. The long-term coaching, getting in. Yeah, I want to do my individual strike and stuff, if I'm honest. Being a part of a... It's a strike, you're quite selfish, aren't you? I think being a part of a coaching set-up It's not really what I want to do at the minute. I think there's a role for that B team or individual striking stuff. I enjoyed it. I loved that as a striker. I worked with a guy called Aaron Russell.

1:44:42And I loved all that individual stuff. Just as a striker, I just feel a little bit good. So I would love to do maybe some of that in the future. Was that the England fella? Yeah, he was. By the way, he was fucking crap. I played with him at Michael's Field. He was shit. Couldn't be a fucking band, or was? he could fucking finish when I worked in a battle by the way well something must have happened then who got him in no I just looked for somebody oh did you I researched him yeah good looking fella isn't he yeah he had a bit about him didn't he but he was over in America for a few years I think he studied while he was over there and yeah it was just class so I would like to do something like that I think it's good I think it's right guys you just want that bit of individual stuff and a bit of finishing and it doesn't get neglected you do custom finishing drills you do finishing drills but I think they're just a little bit token and a bit generic at times and the way the game is now, the game's transitioning to set-piece coaches in it, throwing specialists, who the fuck has a throwing specialist?

1:45:33All this, so I think it is going that way and yeah, if I can help in any way, I think I would like to do something like that. That's jealousy, that. Yeah. Because he's better looking. He's a good looking fucker as well, wasn't he? Tries bringing him down. He does it with me all the time. I'm telling you, he was shit. Look at his record at Macclesfield. Basically, one in 40. I'm going to look at it when we finish if you're still speaking tell him I said hello on you you might listen to it you might get wind of it I bet you're very good looking the bastard he's a prick he's a prick top man wagging top man for that thank you very much for that mate we enjoyed that it was class thanks very much don't forget he sends his regards to David Graham as well tell his family I said hello at the wedding and I need that 50 quid off you brownie phone let's run the cash point oh thanks to all dwyer's as well in derby yeah for letting us use it we're here for the venue shout out steve o 'brien he knows who he is yes anybody else selling anything john stop playing with your mickey