Rob Lee | "There Will Never Be A Manager Like Keegan"

20:48Rob Lee:I hated it. I hated all that. I went to Newcastle. On a Friday, we had an eight-a-side. Keegan and McDermott picked up the teams like you were at school. I'll have him. You have him. I'll have him. No goalies. We had little five-a-side goals, and then we'd done it for 40 minutes, I think. Like really, really high intensity, 40 minutes. He said, right, see you all tomorrow. And I remember going to Bez. I said, what about corners and free kicks and stuff? And, you know, Bez has been best. Well, I'll go and ask the Gaffer sort of thing. So I went over and said, Gaffer, who's taking corners and free kicks?

21:22Rob Lee:And he just went, so if you're playing well, just take one. That is what, that Keegan throughout, we never did corners, we never did free kicks. It was just if you're playing well, just go and take it. It's man before, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, it was madness. I never did any tactics at all. His team talks were brilliant and make you feel 10 foot tall, but never about the opposition, never. It was always about, yeah, you should beat these. You're better than these, you should beat these. None of them were getting my team. It's a risky move, that, isn't it? Because I'll say it because there's one of the lads to switch off and not listen.

21:58Either pick and up or whatever.

22:00Rob Lee:Well, so the same, Derek for Zachary, he tried to sort of like give a little bit of, you know, these are the four biggest lads, so you pick up. The rest of you just sort of like, go where you like. It's almost like Sunday league stuff, isn't it? Yeah, it was, yeah. You're big. You'll pick the big one up. It was the big ones, yeah. And then we didn't have a big one. We used to, would you believe, Bess used to be the other marker because no one else would ever concentrate. I even remember when Keegan had left and we had Kenny came in and obviously he knew, we had David Batty playing for us and Alan Shearer and that.

22:32Rob Lee:So he knew bats and stuff and we used to, he'd done a little bit more of like, corners and free kicks. I remember him just saying to Dave Batty, he said, right, you're on the edge of the air, and he went there, fuck off. And he used to send bats away with a ball, and he'd just keep it up. Because he used to fuck around like that. So as he was doing corners, he'd be pinching people, and he'd be laughing his head off and telling jokes and singing. So Kenny used to say, fuck off. You're there at the corner. Now go away. And he'd go away for 20 minutes until we'd finish, and he'd come back, and he'd join in the far side.

23:04Just before you signed. I mean, it must be true because loads of people have asked, did Keegan try and convince you that Newcastle was closer to London than Middlesbrough?

23:14Rob Lee:He did. Yeah, he did. Yeah. And he succeeded, to be fair. Worked your treat. That was me, didn't that. I actually went to, Lenny Lawrence had gone to Middlesbrough the year before, just as the Premier League started. So Middlesbrough were in the Premier League. And I said to Kerbs, listen, I want to go. and he said, I'd speak to Billy Bonds because I wanted to go to West Ham when I was a West Ham fan. Billy wouldn't put the money up. Billy only offered a 500 grand so he wouldn't come up to the 700. Middlesbrough came in, offered 700 so I had to fly up to Middlesbrough and meet Lenny up in Middlesbrough and I remember meeting him and I think, yeah, I really don't want to come here.

23:57Rob Lee:I mean, you're in the Premier League, you wanted to play me in the 10 position where I wanted to play but it just didn't feel right. I was like, it was cold, it was horrible got off the got off the flight at Teesside Airport it was a horrible airport yeah and I just I just like it was raining it was horrible I'm not coming north I ain't going north at all so I came back and then I remember Curbs rigging me up at home what are you doing I said I ain't I tell you what I said I ain't going north I said it is it is bleak up there bleak and then he said well he said Keegan's coming for you now so I said and I genuinely went where is he because I last time I heard he was playing golf in Marbella so he said Newcastle I said I ain't going so I'm not going he said we just want to speak to you I said well I'll speak to him but I ain't going and Keegan was like you know he was my hero I had pictures of him I was a West Ham fan you know Liverpool team were just my hero they were just him Terry McDermott these were like idols of mine I remember him getting on the phone and he went Rob I said yeah so why don't you come to Newcastle I said well I spoke to him so I don't really want to, and he went, he said, I've booked a flight for you for tomorrow morning.

25:07Rob Lee:I said, I'll see you tomorrow afternoon. I went, okay. And I got on a flight next morning, went up to, I remember taking my wife up, went up to Newcastle and I just met Keegan at the St. James's Park. I remember whispering to my wife, I said, give me a couple of hours or we'll be out of here. So I went in to see Keegan. He could always persuade you to do whatever he wanted you to do, you know what I mean? And he knew I was, you know, he's my hero. And he just said, oh, I know you were signing to Middlesbrough, but Newcastle was closer to London than Middlesbrough. I went, is it? Yeah. He said, I can get you home quicker.

25:44Rob Lee:So I went, oh, right, okay. So I came down the stairs with your wife and said, I said, pack your bags, just sign three and a half years. And then it wasn't until I was driving up the A1, I went, fucking past Middlesbrough.

25:58Rob Lee:Now we're out of Newcastle, wasn't it? The thing is, it was grim. You know, when you cross over the bridge, Middlesbrough, it used to be the ICI. The ICI, yeah. And Ayrson Park wasn't exactly, you know, the riverside that's now. It was Ayrson Park. It was falling down. It was, yeah, it wasn't. If West Ham had have matched the fee, would you have been a West Ham player? Yeah, I would have gone. I would have gone immediately, yeah. Yeah, without a doubt, yeah. The only thing that took me to Newcastle was Keegan. anybody else anybody else in charge I wouldn't have even I wouldn't have gone anywhere near it no which is strange because it's the best decision I ever made yeah even the fact that you used to be a striker then you were on the wing even the fact that it was him that moved you into midfield he's obviously seen somebody in you hasn't he it's a thing well honestly I swear to God he came up to me after about a week and he just went just pulled me on the side and said we're going to play for England I went fuck off got a best fucking hell And he went and said, are you going to play for England?

27:01Rob Lee:You are. And I was like, well, okay, yeah, great. When he says it, someone like, it's like, Keegan is this, you know, the first superstar of football. And all of a sudden, my confidence went through the roof and I was scoring goals and playing well every single week. So, you know, once we got in the, once we went out and got in the Premier League, then I think it was just after that, I got called up by Terry Venables. So it was mad, absolutely mad. Even if he's blagging you, even if he's just blowing smoke up your arse the fact that it's giving you that boost oh yeah massive yeah massive yeah I don't know if he told it to all the lads to give him a boost but well I don't think he told it to Bez so yeah and we've been I think that's 18 months two years I was getting picked for England yeah so mad the amount of messages we got saying still is Newcastle's greatest ever midfielder honestly well I'm glad Bruno left because he was catching up with me I think and that Tonali get him gone and out get rid of those two yeah no listen I had you know I had 10 great years the first five years with Keegan were the best years of my life just the way that not just on the pitch off the pitch as well because the lads were all the lads still you know we still got a big group chat there's still 11 of us on it so that's quite rare isn't it to have it that big is really weird so whenever we go up to Newcastle and I still go up and do some corporate stuff Bez works there Lee Clark lives there Steve Watson and lives there.

28:27Rob Lee:Steve Howe is still up there. We always get together. It's just like you've never been away. It's like, tell the same jokes, tell the same stories. Who's the one, the annoying one, that always puts them stupid jokes and memes and that in? There's one in every WhatsApp group. Yeah, it's normally Bez. You open one up and there's a, oh! For fuck's sake, he's done me again. You're kidding, Bez. It's always, anything's always Bez. Bez was the entertainment manager. He used to arrange everything. and some of the things he used to come up with. One year he came up with what we were going to do. So he always used to go, sometimes we'd do fancy dress.

29:03Rob Lee:We'd go to Newcastle, all in fancy dress. One year we bought a ball, bought a football and we were doing Keeping Up Withers around Newcastle. And then we went in a shop and we were doing Keeping Up Withers in the shop. We're all like, everybody's in fancy dress, everybody. I mean, Alan Shearer, it was his first year. He dressed up, it's the thickest thing he ever did. he put a wig on and a stash and then put a Newcastle shirt on and went as Terry McDermott. But he's in a Newcastle shirt now so all they can see is Alan Shearer 15 million in a Newcastle shirt so obviously he got mobbed everywhere so it was, and then one year he said, oh what are we going to do this year?

29:41Rob Lee:We're going to hire a boat, he said. We're going to hire a boat on the Tyne and we're going to all go down the Tyne and get a magician in and a hypnotist and it was an absolute nightmare. I remember Philip Albert trying to get on this boat. He fell down. You know, between the dock and the boat, he fell down there. So we just about grabbed him. Honestly, he could have killed himself. Then we had the hypnotist on and he went down like, lads are all pissed. He went down absolutely, outrageously badly. And he's going, well, don't behave yourself, lads. I'm getting off. Well, where are you going? Where are you going?

30:16Rob Lee:He's stuck in him. He's stuck in a boat and the lads were caning him. I mean, this is all like Bez's great ideas of like, this is what we do this year. Somebody mentioned Albert, did he used to get called Viz? What was the magazine? Viz. Viz. Yeah, yeah. Could he only, did he used to speak like that or something? Yeah, that's right, yeah. Yeah, well, he actually spelt like, you know, like the guy from Hello, Hello. That's how he actually, yeah. Hello. That's how he, but then he, we used to put Sid the Sexist on and he loved it. so away trips Bez would put like again Bez we'd like it'd tape it'd tapes in those days MTV or anything that was on telly and we'd bring because our trips were you know from Newcastle in those days it used to take us eight hours to get down so people would bring like videos on and stuff like that and Bez would bring Viz on and Sid the sexist and Philip Albert just loved it loved it absolutely loved it and it wasn't we actually I think we got the videos banned when Tino put a video on.

31:20Rob Lee:Yeah, we were all going to ask you about this one. Yeah, so Tino put a video on. I saw Tino about two weeks ago at the Liverpool game. Me and Bess reminded him of, he put this video on. And honestly, it's just hardcore porn, basically. And Keegan's going mad. Arthur Cox is going mad. And he's going, oh, no, no, it's okay. It's my girlfriend. And he was going out of an Italian porn star. And he used to bring him in the bar as well with the wives and girlfriends. where do you look how do you look how do you look at somebody in a bar when you've seen somebody else putting it up in a half where do you look you're talking about work as well have you been working this week yeah what do you do then

32:07that must have been an unbelievable title I remember him signing Asprey

32:11Rob Lee:it was unbelievable yeah we used to you used to sat Keegan because Keegan was really good because he used to like But he'd say to you, who do you think is good? Who should we get next? I remember him asking me, who would you like to play in midfield with? And I was playing with Lee Clark at the time, and Clark was doing brilliant. And I said, well, the ones in England are Paul Ince or David Batty. And then four weeks later, we only got David Batty. He said the same to Andy Cole about, that's why we got Darren Peacock. Who gave you the most trouble? Darren Peacock was the hardest to get Darren Peacock.

32:43but managers should listen to players because players know

32:47Rob Lee:do you know you know if you're playing when you're playing he's good your players know so he was like really he'd take in what he's but then when we when we ever tried to get him to buy another centre half he would yeah he bought a Spreer instead I think so I'll tell you what we need to say a big thank you to go on Betano of course the heroes best book in the world the legends not only because they sponsor this series and all the series. But obviously they were sponsoring the World Cup. We are then, we wouldn't have got there, would we? They got us to the World Cup. They're everywhere. They've just announced a partnership with Tottenham.

33:25And yet again, they're betting partner of the Europa League and Europa Conference League. Does that mean they're going to be all the way around the Tottenham Stadium then? Yes, but tell them what it's not. It is not categorically an energy drink. No. It's bright orange, that board that goes around the ground, but it's not an energy. It looks like one, doesn't it? It does, to the untrained eye. I've got one question, though. Have we got an offer? Of course we've got an offer. Because looking after Under the Cosh listeners and viewers, as always, what's you going to do? Bet£10 and get this. Get£40 in free bets in your pot.

33:59And what do we need to do? All you've got to do is click on the link, sign up, put your tenner in, get£40 in free bets. Please gamble responsibly. T's and C's apply. 18 plus. gambleaware.org It was just I mean I watched the Liverpool Newcastle the 4-3 a few weeks ago and it was like a different sport than what you see

34:30Rob Lee:I always stop it at 3-0 But it's just 100 mile an hour Yeah it was When I spoke to John Barnes, he says the same thing. It's like a schoolboy game. You know, when you're at school, it's either you'll attack, then we'll attack, then you'll attack, then we'll attack. It was exciting. Yeah. No, it was – I mean, honestly, most of our games were like – they think that was a – most of our games were like that because that's why Keegan wanted you to play. He wouldn't let you run it in the corner. He wanted us to score three, four. Every game he used to say to us, you know, before we went out, he'd say, go and entertain the crowd.

35:09Rob Lee:He said, this is an entertainment, go and entertain them. I think that's brilliant for the attackers, the attacking-minded players. Yeah, that's what Darren Peacock says, yeah. Defenders must have been pulling his ponytail off, wasn't he? Yeah, we didn't really have defenders because we obviously had Bez on one side, he used to bomb forward. Warren Barton on the other side, he used to bomb forward. Philippe Albert, who sometimes was past me in midfield, and so we used to have Darren Peacock. And then we had Steve Auer, who used to come in as well. between those three we'd had probably Darren Peacock Steve Howe was more of a he wasn't the best defender he was more of a ball playing centre half so he used to leave him on his own we used to all just fly forward and then if they scored okay we'll score two here if they've got two we'll get three it's like that's the way he played football I watched the first half an hour of Chelsea Arsenal the other day that's the first time in ages that a game's been like that and it didn't last very long but just end to end for half an hour and it was class I think if you watch it now I rarely watch Premier League football now it just bores me even kids coming through it's all the stats oh I don't want to give the ball away I don't want to give the ball away because my stats will go down I think well I saw Kevin De Bruyne an interview last year and he went if somebody asked him about stats he said if my stats passing stats are 100 % he said I'm not doing my job you know he said I've got to put at the ball at risk.

36:36Rob Lee:I played with Peter Beardsley, honestly. I swear to God, Peter Beardsley's passing stats on some games would have been awful. And I remember saying to him, he'd say having a stink for Peter was having a stink. He kept trying to get this ball through. And he went to me, Rob, if I get through once out of 10, we'd score, we'd win 1-0. And I think kids now are worried about losing the ball and trying to start. Yeah, no one takes a risk anyway. It's always this, keep the ball, pass the ball, keep your stats up. and I think the excitement has gone out of the game, I think. I think that time must have been class as a young lad, you know, with the key side.

37:12And I know we've had a lot of lads up like Clark, Ian, Steve, Watson. Where were you in the, did you resist the urge to be out? Yeah.

37:21Rob Lee:I was probably mid-table, I think. Yeah, I wasn't like the Geordies. I wasn't sort of like, yeah, I was married, still married. so I did something right. But yeah, so we'd go out. We'd go out on a Monday. All the lads would go out on a Monday. Then on the Saturdays, we'd go out with the wives and we'd still go mad sort of thing, but still we'd take the wives with us sort of thing. So I was probably mid-table, yeah. Why Monday? Yeah, with training. I'd actually seen you out once. Because the way we looked at it, the way we'd go out Mondays and drink, everybody had to come. So Peter Beers had to come, everybody had to come.

38:01Rob Lee:Peter used to drive people home. I remember him driving Keith Gillespie was usually the first to fall over so he'd drive him home and then he'd come back and then he'd drive someone else he's not just taking everyone no then drive somebody else home and then Keith would come back

38:20Rob Lee:the way we looked here was sort of like everybody had to turn up train next day everyone had to turn up so it was and the way we looked we'd run our balls off next day not because Keen would but you'd have a nine a side eight a side and then you'd be fine by the Wednesday. You have the day off Wednesday and then you're back on it Thursday sort of thing. Did that in a way build a camaraderie? The fact that everybody's got to do it. Everybody's hanging out their arse. Yeah, it did because we used to meet in an Italian restaurant called Uno's down on the quayside where we know the owner. We'd all go down there.

38:52Rob Lee:The whole team would be there. All have a meal. Some would be drinking, some wouldn't. Ginola would be having red wine, but it'd still be there. and Bez didn't even used to drink in those days. We used to have to take Bez, two bottles of Asti's Pimenti. Do you remember Asti's Pimenti? What's that? It's like cheap pop. Yeah, it's like cheap champagne. Yeah, it's cheap champagne sort of thing. And so all he drank was Asti's Pimenti. So we used to take two bottles with us and we'd stick it behind the bar. So every time we had a beer, he had a little drop of Asti's Pimenti. Then we'd move on. We'd take our bottles with us.

39:29Rob Lee:And that's all he drank. And he drinks every fucking thing now. You know, if you're in the park as a young 'un, that's your go-to because it's cheap. Yeah. Right. And it gets you pissed quickly. Yeah. So talking about that game being a different game, it's a completely different game on and off the field, isn't it? Yeah, I think so. I mean, we'd go out and obviously we're in Newcastle. You'd get mobbed by everybody. but we didn't mind it it wasn't a problem it wasn't a problem it wasn't a problem it wasn't a problem it wasn't a problem it wasn't a problem it wasn't a problem it wouldn't bother us I don't think you ever see anyone I interviewed Bruno the other last season and Joe Linton and Isak I said what do you do in the afternoons do the lads get together no so I walked the dogs I said is that it yeah yeah I don't know if that's just the way that football is these days I'm not sure but what was the standard like did Keegan know for one that you were out Mondays oh yeah Yeah, because he'd get all the stories.

40:28Rob Lee:He used to get all the stories. So he'd get people complaining about us. So every time we'd come in on the Tuesday, he might leave it till the Thursday, and then he'd drag people in. So he had a little office, him, Arthur, Terry. He used to drag them in, and usually it's Steve Howey. Steve Howey! So he'd go in, and then he'd close the door. I've heard what happened. Steve Howey's like, what? We've heard what's happened, so you might as well spill the beans. What have you heard, Gaffer? Why? You know what went on, Steve. and then Steve Edwards blew out exactly what went on no Steve he doesn't really know he's sort of like you need to learn Steve but yeah and he'd drag us all in like one by one it's sort of like like you know a jokey thing it just he'd go like what happened I heard about you what happened and it just it'd be like because we were winning every game he wasn't bothered as long as we as long as we won the games he was and we trained hard which is what we did and he didn't mind it you know you said that he used to ask for your opinion on who to play with.

41:28Did he, I'm just thinking about Andy Cole when Andy Cole left. Would he consult with any of the players about selling him?

41:36Rob Lee:No. No, that's something that if Andy Cole, if somebody didn't want to be at the club, he wasn't bothered who you were. You know what I mean? So Coley would make noises. You know, Coley walked out a few times and I think he just had enough. And I think he always wanted Les Ferdinand always. Did it cause any friction that in the dressing room? One of the lads wanting to go when you've got that so much unity? I think it happens in football, doesn't it? I think people knew Coley was sort of like, he was brilliant for us. He was great, scored so many goals but I think when he got his head turned by Manchester United it didn't bother the lads.

42:15Rob Lee:It wasn't a thing, oh no, we've lost him now. We've lost his goals. Keegan always had another plan. Always, if we lose, I think he thought that people were getting on to us. Because when Andy Cole first came in, he used to say, listen, you never saw Coley chase back. You never saw Coley come back in the box of corners and stuff like that. They do now. You stay there, Coley. Yeah. They'll get you the ball. You stay in the box. Don't you run in wide. All this lot, I've got all this lot to get you the goal. Get you the ball, you score. And that's what we did. We used to run around and create chances and try and pass to Coley in the box.

42:50Rob Lee:And nine times out of 10, he'd score. I know you said that that's how it was under Keegan and it were enjoyable and that, but were there ever a point where you think, tell you what, do you know, if we just did a bit, you know, set pieces or tactical play, if we just did a bit, we'd be even better. Never. Never, honestly. Not once, no. Not even after the, when United caught you? No, we just continued to play. We just continued to play the way we play. That's the way we play. We couldn't play any other way. because of the players he brought in, we couldn't play any. We couldn't tell Philip Elba to sit back in there and you sit there.

43:28Rob Lee:Do you know what I mean? It's sort of like it's, you know, David, you chase back a little bit. Don't go forward. It's just the way we played. That's the way he liked football being played, you know, which the lads loved it. Honestly, it was like playing school football for another five years. That's the way. When I was a kid growing up, if I could imagine myself playing football, that's how I'd want to play football in a professional game but I don't think anybody's ever done it. Nobody ever remembers who finished second apart from our year. Yeah, that's true. Never. And I get so, honestly, so many people when I'm a one holiday and I loved your Newcastle.

44:06Rob Lee:I wasn't a Newcastle fan but I loved your team. They can name the whole team. They can name the whole team. It's madness. Consider we didn't win. We didn't win the league. We lost it. We had a 12-point lead. They still remember our team. And it's because of the way we played football. Quick break, gents. NorVPN has been absolutely saving my life. But just back from holiday, managed to watch Bolton kick off the season. No problem. With the under the cosh derby, wasn't it? It was, yeah. Good start to the season. Yeah. So if you don't know what VPN is, alls I did while I were there. Got the NorVPN on.

44:47Then I could watch my wondrous TV. Did you bounce it back? I bounced it back. I bounced my location back to the UK, watched the match. Tell you what, the only thing that's better than Big Brother is the Nigerian Big Brother. I'm currently watching the Nigerian Big Brother. It is sensational. So you're bouncing the other way. Yeah. I'm in Nigeria. Well, not only can you bounce your location to anywhere in the world so you can watch them TV programmes, watch them different subscription sites from different places. Sport for me. Yeah. but also your passwords, your pin numbers, everything, under lock and key, extra security system with no VPN.

45:26It's unbelievable. I've not had any trouble with any of them hackers. Have we got an offer? We've always got an offer, John. I know that. All you've got to do is follow the link in the description and you get a heavy, heavy discount and a 30-day money-back guarantee. But I can't understand why anybody would want the money back. You won't need it. No.

45:48Bruncher on timeframes we were talking before you come were you there when somebody shaved Kilcline's Tash off

45:54Rob Lee:I was at the club yeah but I wasn't I didn't go on holiday with them no I always kept away from their holidays did you? yeah so was it not a club holiday? no it was just one promotion and obviously all the lads arranged to go away but you know I went down south but for the first three years I loved it in Newcastle but I needed to get home so the last game my car was packed up and I was down the A1 for the whole of the six weeks. For the first three, four years I did that. As soon as it finished, I went. I went home, yeah. We're straight home and I didn't go back to the day we trained, yeah. Imagine in that Griswold's Christmas car.

46:35Yeah, yeah.

46:37Rob Lee:It was packed up totally. As soon as the game finished, I was in the car. Riding all wheels. Off I go, yeah. After about three years, probably three years, I just started liking it up there. I just loved it up there. And yeah, I never looked back really. I lived in Durham and Chesley's suite for the whole time. I kept out of Newcastle, but I always loved it up there, yeah. On about, because it used to be Hoffel, wasn't it? It was Durham, Hoffel, where you was trained. Chesley and... At... I'm trying to think of the name of it. It was the university there. University, yeah. Was it an open thing where you just got...

47:15Rob Lee:Yeah, it was open, yeah. It was a university. It was actually a university campus, yeah. So we used to... I remember Ginola coming in. I just signed Ginola. But obviously, we changed the same place as the university students changed. So me and Bez are getting changed. And then there's a university guy, like young kid, long hair, and Paul Key. Ginola's coming. He's took his top off. He's ripped. He's looking like that. He's like, get in the hell. He said, you English players don't look after yourselves, do you? I mean, no, he's not one of the players. He's looking for a stupid ass, aren't he? He's coming to be a badminton, I think.

47:55Rob Lee:So it was totally open, yeah. School holidays, we'd have 4 ,000 kids and their mums and dads. And in the end, they used to bring ice cream vans in and burger vans. And I remember one we're training. so you know like the Whitehalls final our eight aside would be four deep of like people watching our training and I remember Keegan and McDermott they were sitting on top of the burger van with a burger just watching the watching the training this is just and then Keegan would say he always said it every time we sort of like we it was finished so there was 4 ,000 fans there right sign all the autographs and this is on a Friday sign them all And you think, fucking hell, what's all these autographs?

48:43Rob Lee:And he made you stay out there. And he made you stay out there, yeah. And sign autographs for all the fans, yeah. It just sounds like... It's Mike Bassett-esque, innit? It just sounds like really good fun. Yeah. It sounds like the best club in the world. I think he got it all from Shankly. He loved Bill Shankly. Loved him. And everything was like Bill Shankly. You know, like, this is how he used to do it. This is the eight of sides that we used to do at Liverpool. So everything was about how they did it at Liverpool. he had to have it like, you know, to the extent, because they used to join in.

49:11Rob Lee:I used to love it when some people would like, players don't like managers joining in. I loved it. So when Keegan and Terry joined, I loved it. You know, I'd be trying to pull your back. And I'd say, yeah, you're not that good. You're not that good. And he's giving it all that. But then we had Venner's. When it got to such a high standard, Barry Renison, he was a captain, he said, Gaffer, you can't play anymore. Keegan's like, well, you can't play anymore. It makes it lopsided. King was devastated devastated because he loved it he loved it I was going to say it was nobody worried about potential spies and stuff but then you weren't doing anything tactical anyway no that's what I say now all this spy but to be fair he wouldn't even he wasn't bothered he wasn't bothered about anybody seeing what we did because he always says we're better than them so we've got better players and he always said to me I remember he said to me he went Rob he said nine times out of ten if you've got the better players he said you'll win the game so do you know like in training you've got all these fans and that did it ever boil off away somebody kicked somebody and there were a bit of a scuffle but just all the fans have seen it well it was a time that we'd like to say it was like an eight aside and then it was Brian Kilcline it was went in for a slide tackle I think it was somebody jumped jumped out of the way and he went straight through about four sets of kids like a slide honestly a slide sliding tackle because they were Right on the line, he'd come flying in, jumped out.

50:36Rob Lee:Four sets of kids have gone down on the pitch. Get up. Yeah, gone down. So we think, oh, no, he's injured the kids. But they've all jumped up. Loved it. Frank, Frank, you're climbing me there. Great. It was just unbelievable like that, yeah. Like you said, with Ginola and other players coming in, it must have been an eye-opener from other clubs that they've come to and it made me a lot more professional. Yeah, when they got to Maiden Castle, they must have thought, God, what is this? The pitch that we trained was unbelievable. It was like a carpet, even in those days. It was just the fact that anybody could go in.

51:13Rob Lee:I don't think they got that. Trying to get to your car, trying to get out, can be a pain in the backside. It was just a great atmosphere. Honestly, we'd go in, and I'd never played tennis. I was 25, 26. I'd never played head tennis. So I turned up my first day and we used to go, you go, you're in Maiden Castle. So there's like a gym, basically it's just a gym. So you're on a gym floor. There's no, it's not 4G. And Keegan's got like a, like a badminton net set up and it is him and Terry are playing against two of the lads, like head tennis. This is at nine in the morning. And I remember walking past and Keegan said, Rob Lee, Rob Lee.

51:56He said, get yourself a partner.

51:58Rob Lee:I don't know anyone. I'm like, just got here. I don't know anyone. So Franz Carr was walking by. By the way, I was taking his place. So that wasn't going down well. So we teamed up to play this at tennis. And honestly, Terry and Kevin were so good at this fucking at tennis. And I was like, oh, my God. They could beat us. And then they're jumping up and down like this. How much do we pay for him? How much do we pay for him? So I kept trying to find another partner until I found Bez. And then we started playing them. but we'd play them from nine in the morning until quarter past ten and they would go out and train at half past ten.

52:34Rob Lee:So he would be, he'd be like, no, if we were beating them, one more set. Gaffer, we're training in like ten minutes. No, one more set. Come on, one more set. So we'd do this for an hour and a half before we even went out to train. It was just, I just loved it. I loved it. We had had tennis tournaments like before training, yeah, on, on gymnasium floors. Like it was. People, people won't understand how competitive these, that tennis things used to be. I remember the Charlie Early Centre. Did you ever play there? It was just port-a-cubbins. And they made a court and there was no net like you're on about.

53:09They used to have them wooden boxes and just put them across as the net. And it was always Peter Reid and Adrian Heath against Bobby Saxton and Ricky Sprager. Yeah, yeah. We used to, it was tiny. I mean, there was no health and safety. There was bikes that just move everything to the side and all the youth team would just watch. and the amount of arguments and fight that used to be between staff, like the manager of the club.

53:33Rob Lee:Yeah, yeah. I mean, they got beat. I mean, we started to beat them, me and Bez, started to beat them. And then Bez went over on his ankle, remember, and Keegan went, right, you just can't play now. You know, you can't play anymore, Bez, you can't play. And it's only because he didn't want us to keep beating them. That's what he said, yeah. No, you can't play, Bez, you can't play this week. So then they'd be top again. They'd be jumping around, well, we're the best again. but I loved it I used to get in at like I used to try and get in at half eight to just kind of get on the head tennis court because it was obviously winner stays on and they'd always win and you'd have to get in at half eight to stay on the pips I think it's like you mentioned sorry we mentioned him earlier and he's just totally gone off the radar David Batty like is he a weirdo or you know what he's a great guy but he always said to me he said and I used to you know be good friends with him of England and stuff.

54:27Rob Lee:But he always said, once I finish football, you'll never see me again. Yeah, yeah, all right, bats, yeah. Okay. Never seen him again. Never seen him. Yeah, never seen him. Actually, the last time we saw him was at Gary Spee's funeral. So that's how long ago that was. And I remember him saying to him, I said, oh, bats, we should keep in contact. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He said, you know, he said, give me your phone number. Give me your phone. He went, oh, I haven't got a phone. I went, when you haven't got a phone, he said, oh, me and my missus share it and she's got it today. And it's sort of like, it's only, I don't know, where's Speedo?

55:01Rob Lee:10, 12 years ago. So that's the last time I've ever seen him. I can't imagine the sex noises will go down well if she's got the phone back there. No, but when you saw it, it was an old phone. It was like a Nokia. So it couldn't text. It couldn't take videos. It was like, yeah, it was just like a really old phone. Like one of the first ones out. Did he not used to watch ridiculous stuff on his laptop well he loved accidents didn't he by all accounts yeah like oh if there were an accident on the motorway he'd be buzzing on the court he loved all that he was massively into like you know super bikes he loved his super bikes when nobody liked super bikes so he'd be watching like these big bikes going round and and he also watched CFAX a lot C?

55:45Rob Lee:yeah he'd sit in there and watch CFAX I'd go in his room in England he'd be watching CFAX nothing happens No, but his agent or his financial advisor put him into the, and his finances had been into the, so he'd be watching all the money go up and down in the seat. Watching stocks and shares. Stocks and shares, yeah. Absolutely, yeah. The footsie, he'd be watching the footsie. Oh, he's going upstairs watching the footsie. Oh, he's playing. The footsie. Honestly, he was the funniest guy ever, but just a strange guy. Funny guy. Great player. Great player. But he never left Wetherby. He never left.

56:26Rob Lee:So he travelled an hour and 20 minutes to Newcastle. As soon as training finished, he straight home an hour and 20 minutes and come back the next day an hour and 20 minutes. Never had a wash bag. Never, ever had a wash bag. Just used to nick the lad stuff. Toothbrush? Toothbrush? No. Nothing. He used to drink nothing. Nothing. He was unbelievable. but just a really great guy. As I say, people underestimate how good he was at football. He was a proper player. He's an enigma, isn't he? I can just imagine him swimming around in a big bath at his home in weathering, like Scrooge McDuck, just on his own, really happy with his own swimming in money.

57:07Rob Lee:His whole career, he played with Blackburn, Lees, he never left Wetherby, never. I wonder if it's worth just walking around Wetherby, see if you can drop on him, just to see him. He's not a big foot. It's like a photo through the bushes. I mean, you talked about Kevin Keegan's powers of persuasion. Was it right that he persuaded Ginola not to sign for Barcelona? It was. We just signed Alan. So we were actually just about to get on the flight to the Far East. So we were going to Japan, China, Singapore. So John Hall had this thing about selling shirts way before anybody else did. So this was in 96.

57:58Rob Lee:Keegan had to get off the flight. We knew something was going on. And he got off the flight and signed Alan for 15 million quid, which at the time was like a world record. And I think they had to pay it all up front as well. There was no paying it over five years. It was a whole lot up front. and I remember we were going so he met us in Japan then we had to fly to China but he wasn't allowed to fly with us because we couldn't afford the insurance so all the lads flew and then he flew with the directors and it was mad so he had arrived later on because we couldn't afford the insurance of all the players and Alan Shearer so Jesus it was mad it was madness and then I think Barcelona came for Gianola and Keegan said to him just give me one more year he said we'll win the league give me one more year we've got Alan Shearer that's it now and so he did and then you know Keegan left in the January which didn't go down well with Ginola or Alan I don't think I was looking as well at the time frame and that's like Ronaldo Luis Figo Rivaldo hereafter I think they want treble and all yeah did they yeah Cheers, Kev.

59:12Rob Lee:Yeah, he can persuade you to do some stuff. Gaffer. Did you, going back to that, the 12-point season, were you involved in the Man United game at home? Yes. I was going to ask you if you could play one game again, what would it be? Is that up there? Because you've batted them for a while. Oh, we batted them. We batted them. Honestly, it's the best goalkeeping display I've ever seen from Schmeichel. It was unbelievable. You speak to the Man U players now, the ones that played we battered them absolutely battered them and Schmeichel was unbelievable unbelievable I've never seen a performance like it and then and then Cantona comes up and scores that's all we used to hear when they're chasing us down all we used to hear was Schmeichel's been brilliant and Cantona scored never won 1-0 and we're getting three all draws and losing 4-3 and winning 3-2 and it's that's all we heard yeah they didn't play well today but Cantona scored and it was just after he'd come back from his band, didn't he?

1:00:10Rob Lee:So it killed us all. If he had come back from the band, we'd have been all right. They let him back from his band and he was on fire. I mean, I think, you know, when it goes, why do you lose? If you look at their record from Christmas onwards, I think they won 13 out of 15 games. Same as what we did, I think, on the way up. They just, they were relentless. Relentless, yeah. And we were sort of like, again, struggling with three threes and Man City, we got three three. and then Blackburn beat us 2-1 sort of thing. So we did well to even compete with them, really. Because where we'd come in a short space of time, two, three years before that, we were in the championship.

1:00:54And probably loosely liken it to when Liverpool were always really good under Klopp, but City were just that little bit better, weren't they? Yeah. For a spell. Yeah. And it's probably quite similar to the Ouse, wasn't it? No, listen, people ask me, you know,

1:01:10Rob Lee:and I genuinely answer the question, I'd rather not have won the league, but play like we played. And I love the way we played, you know what I mean? I wouldn't have switched it. If you said to me, oh, you can tag a league, winner's medal, but you've got some of the games, you're going 1-0, 1-0, and boring. I genuinely wouldn't do it. I honestly loved the whole time of playing that way. I just loved it. I wouldn't, and I say, if we'd have won it, I don't think I'd have had more people coming up to me now if we'd have won it, like, boringly, or playing now, you know, like, how good we were, the people that come up to me even now, like, 30 years later.

1:01:49It was just a great way of playing.

1:01:52Rob Lee:We'll never see football play like that again, I don't think. So do you know when you went away with England, were you like, shit, this? It's fucking boring. Well, yeah, we didn't like doing all the set plays and stuff. There were lads that would say, what do you do? No, we don't do any of this. Did you think we were taking the piss? Yeah, yeah. You must do this. No, we don't do any of this. No, don't do anything. Yeah, yeah. So it was strange, yeah. What was your favourite time with England? I think my favourite time was under Glenn Hoddle, where I think I should... Euro 96 was probably, I think, when I was at my peak.

1:02:27Rob Lee:So we just lost a title. I think I should have gone to... Well, I should have played in Euro 96, I think. That was my sort of time. When the World Cup came two years later, I was probably in my early 30s then. But I loved playing with Glenn Oddle, for Glenn Oddle. I mean, he played three in the middle, which suited me down the ground. I played, Incy played, and then Gazza played. So we had Incy sitting, me bombing forward, and Gazza just doing whatever Gazza wanted to do, basically. So I loved playing with the way he played. He had three at the back and three in the midfield and wingbacks, and I loved it.

1:03:03Rob Lee:I loved it but I think I was at my best although we'd lost the 12 point lead and you know Euro 96 was when I was at my best really The only time I've heard people speak about was Gary Neville on about the squad selection for 98 and it sounds ruthless for a start with the other Gazza situation Yeah Were you nailed on to Gore or were you one of them that was a No. A toss-up? No, because obviously I got left out. There's no easy way of telling people you're in there. Because Euro 96, we went away to obviously Hong Kong. Is that the famous Schellingham picture? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the same as Joe Bananas and all that.

1:03:49Rob Lee:Gazza's birthday and ripped shirts. So we was away there. And Terry Brenner was told me when I was out in Singapore or Hong Kong, So I had a 13-hour flight back with two or three others. I can't remember who they were, but knowing that you had to sit with all the lads, you had to go back, knowing that it was sort of like you're not even in the squad, which was 13 hours of pure, especially when Gaz is fucking around and Wise is fucking around. Do you know what I mean? It's probably one of the worst moments of my career, and then you got a 13-hour trip back. So when you, so 98, when we was at the Manga, Glenn Ordo had this idea that we'd all go in sporadically.

1:04:35Rob Lee:So every 10 minutes, so you'd have to be like Alan Go, Teddy, Incy, and then you'd all go down into his room, see him. But I was by no means assured of it. Definitely wasn't. And again, I was thinking, oh, I could get left out again here, by the way. And it wasn't until I'm going down the corridor and all of a sudden and there's a massive queue of all the lads. Something's kicked off here. And then we'd heard that Gaz had just bashed up the room and stuff. But I was pretty lucky because as I was going towards the door and you're thinking, oh, God, I hope it don't happen again. And I remember John Gorman, who was at the door letting people in, as I'm walking through the door, he just winked at me like that.

1:05:23And I was like, oh, thank the fuck for that.

1:05:25Rob Lee:He's like, I've got a dodgy eye around him. And then, so I was lucky I was in. But yeah, it was a great experience. I mean, brilliant experience. Going to a World Cup was just an amazing experience. But I knew the World Cup. I sort of like knew there were some good players coming through. I remember, it's funny how you sort of like see it, because we played Poland away, a World Cup qualifier. Just before we went to the Tour Noir. And we were, so it was me, Incy, Gaz, we're in midfield. playing against Poe we need a win in Katowice and I probably played I did I played my best England game ever my best England game ever and I broke my toe during the game we won 2-0 we're now flying off to the Tournoir and Glenn had taken a few young Glenn used to put a few youngsters in the squad and all that and I remember we played Italy in the first game of the Tournoir and he pulled me and said oh listen let your toe rest you sort of like put a couple of youngsters in I said yeah no problem and I watched this kid play this little ginger kid play.

1:06:25Rob Lee:And it was Paul Scholes and he ripped Italy apart. And I looked across the bay and I said, I ain't got a long ear by the way. You just know it's coming. You just sort of like, you can see these youngsters coming. Next generation coming through. Yeah, you see them coming through. And I just looked at him and I thought, wow, you just ripped Italy apart at a young age, wherever you were. So I knew this was my last foray as an England player. How good were that night out in Singapore? Were it a good one? It was Hong Kong. Hong Kong. Oh, bananas. Yeah, it was mad. I sort of kept on the periphery of all of it, really.

1:07:03Rob Lee:There was a few who got involved with it all. But yeah, it was mad for some people. I can't remember because I'm not sure that I was told already that I was out of the squad sort of thing, so I wasn't really in the mood for it. I went out. I went out with them. We were all in the same place, but I didn't get involved in the dentist's chair and stuff like that. How we were about it. He was all over it, yeah. He's on the portal, aren't we? He was all over it. Yeah, you tell Steve not to get involved, he'll get involved. He's not the brightest. You were talking about signing shirts and stuff before.

1:07:42Was there something with Des Hamilton and Shearer's shirt?

1:07:46Rob Lee:Yeah, that was Des. Des was a great guy who signed him for Bradford. I think Kenny signed him for Bradford. And I was injured. And Des had come in and just signed for Bradford, and I was getting injured. And Alan used to get given loads of gear and buy expensive tops. And he'd come in this Armani top. I think it was all white, with white and blue stripes. It looked like an England top, basically. But he's going, oh, look at my top. Look, he's great. So I'd get changed and go out. And I'm getting treatment. and then I thought, fuck this. So I got his top off. I went to Des Hamilton and I said, oh, Des, just sign this England top for us.

1:08:25Rob Lee:So he signed Des Hamilton and I stuck it back on Alan's peg. And now I'm waiting like a little schoolboy now, waiting for Alan to come in because he's going to go fucking hate shit. And he's come in and he's telling me how many goals he's scored in training because he kept count of those as well. And he's come in, he's got change, he's got his jeans on and all that. and he, who the fucking hell's done this? And I went, Merck, says Des Amiton on there.

1:08:58Rob Lee:So Alan's only, he's only repercussing on anybody. He used to cut your clothes off. So he'd cut your jeans all the way up. He'd cut your trainers, he'd cut your socks, he'd cut your top. And I just remember Des Amiton walking out like Robinson Crusoe. all his gear just totally fucking been attacked by a tiger that's a good on that who's done this bless him as well he's just doing his job yeah of course great guys well when Alan did arrive did you just think fucking hell we've got a great chance now yeah we thought that was the I thought that was we only needed you know one player the only player was signed you know when you think we've got Les Fern and Alan Shearer up front you know you've got you used to come out you know I used to walk down the you know the tunnel and I used to look at the defenders who were playing against fuck me who do I pick up because normally you've got one big one and one's good in the air they're both good in the air they're both quick both strong and you see them thinking fuck you know am I picking up here by the way and together they were just like you know give an average ball they'll make it look great because they could hold it up and get behind they can head it and on top of that we had Peter Beards behind that and Espria and Ginola and Keith Gillespie we just had we just had a phenomenal team and it was just I was looking through some old programs the other day and I had to ring Bez I said we played a European game and I think I can't think it was Bernds Farrow I said you over the cup and I looked at our team and I couldn't even work out where everyone was playing.

1:10:43Rob Lee:Honestly, I couldn't work out because the actual team was, there was Ginola played, Esprit played, Beardsley played, I played, Lee Clark played, Allen played, Les played, Philippe Albert played. And I was trying to work out and I said, Beards, can you work out our team? And he went, oh, yeah, I think we played, he said, I think we played, Tino Esprit was right wing back, Ginola was left wing back. and I think no chance of like yeah we had Steve Steve Watson was like our centre half I think Lee Clark played honestly I couldn't work out how we played this game 1-4-0 I remember we were just trying to play everybody we were trying to play everybody in the team I remember somebody asking Keegan did you ever think that because everybody used to say Ferdinand and Shearer wouldn't work together and he went I signed them because everyone was saying that I'd make it work Yeah.

1:11:39And they were you, weren't they?

1:11:40Rob Lee:Honestly, they were the best pairing I've ever seen. I mean that, the best pairing I've ever seen. Because they, to say they were both quick, they were both strong, both scored goals. Alan was probably the best finisher. You know, Les had an unbelievable leap. But Alan would get you, you know, he was a goal scorer. Les would get you some great goals, great headers and stuff. But, you know, I think they played one season ago. They got, I don't know what they got, 40, 50 goals, I think they got. It's madness. We've had Tony Cotty on and he, we are admitting it, said that if they lost 4-3 but he scored an act-trick, he was still happy.

1:12:18Would Alan like that? Oh, God, yeah, of course he was. That's all strike, isn't it?

1:12:24Rob Lee:Yeah, God, he just lived for scoring goals. He loved it. I think Bobby Robson's first home game, he played Sheffield Wednesday at home. and we won, well actually we won in the end, we won 8-0 but we were 5-0 up, 6-0 up, I think it was, we had a young kid came on and the young kid called Paul Robinson, he dribbled through and got brought down for a penalty, Ellen's got four goals and he's gone, how do you mind if I take it? He went, fuck off. He said, I'm the penalty taker. And he scored his fifth goal, he got five. He was having none of it, he was the goal scorer, he wanted to score goals, yeah.

1:13:06Quick break, gents, because I've got a bit of a confession. Go on. I've actually been using, I'll say it, a bit of Claude AI to help us out with the notes for the episodes a little bit. See, I don't think it is a confession. I don't mind you getting better at your job. I've improved. The stats and that. I'm glad you said that because I got a few extra stats from Claude himself. I sent him your dinner, John. Have you got them there? Chris Bowne's last professional goal came in April 2014. Here's what's changed since that time. Pint of milk cost 46p. It's now 90p to a pound. England have had four managers.

1:13:47Watford have had 20 managers. Probably more by the time this goes out. Petrol was 129.7 a litre. And the UK has consumed between 90 and 100 billion pints. A lot has changed in that time. How old was you in Bellingham at that time? 10.

1:14:08No, it's been a game changer, hasn't it? Organising our emails, like the co-working side of things, sorting out the drafts again, sorting out the notes and the stats for each episode. I don't think there's a better AI system out there. Would you mind if I tell you a bit more about it? Go for it. I want to get this right, though. Claude is the AI for minds that don't stop at good enough. That's me. It's the collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and things with you. Whether you're debugging code at midnight or strategizing your next business move, Claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter.

1:14:48Well, for problems worth solving, get started at claude.ai.coche. Your job has just got so much easier, hasn't it? So did stuff start to change when Kenny came in with the more tactical?

1:15:06Rob Lee:Yeah, obviously, Kenny came in and he was more tactical. Just when you think, he'd probably tweak a few things, might as well be better at the back and we've got enough good players, but I don't know what happened. Obviously, he didn't get on with Ginola, didn't get on with Les. Obviously, Alan loved him, got on with Bats and stuff. But I just, I thought it was the only, when Keegan left, I thought it was a great choice. I thought, what a choice that is, you know, Kenny Legleys. Get somewhere with Alan, because you've obviously got to keep Alan happy, because you're signing for 15 million. But just didn't, for whatever reason, it didn't go well.

1:15:42Rob Lee:I don't think he bought very well. I don't think it was, whether it was his buyers or somebody else, but I think he bought. The players he replaced weren't as good as the players that came in. It was too many as well. Like he was trying to put his own stamp on. It was like 20 players. Yeah, and I think that's exactly it. You hit the nail on the head. I think he was trying to put his own stamp. Maybe, you know what it's like with egos. Maybe he thought, well, if I went in with this team, you know, it's not my team, it's Keegan's team. So I think he tried to change a lot, put a lot of players in.

1:16:14Rob Lee:And as I say, if they were a lot better than what we had, I would have understood it, but I just didn't get it. I mean, Stefan Givar came in, World Cup winner. Dreadful. Storny? Was he a dog leash? Yeah, but I thought he was better than our left back.

1:16:33Rob Lee:Bess' legs are gone. Bess' legs are gone anyway. Yeah, he wasn't as good as Bess. Do you know what I mean? He was a good player, but he just didn't cope well with the Premier League, how tough it was. He wasn't the bravest, you know what I mean? So some of the players that he brought in just weren't, just didn't work out for him for whatever reason. They just didn't work out. There's a story with Pestonia, was it a pig's heart or a sheep's heart? Yeah, that was on our Christmas do. Stuart Pearce, I did that one. That was the old secret Santa thing that we come up with. Shea got him a pig's heart, yeah.

1:17:12Rob Lee:So he opened the box, all the blood came out. shit himself he did yeah how did you get one from punctures well probably yeah I'm assuming so yeah again it was brutal why did he get the pig's art huh because he he wasn't the bravest so he gave him basically that was the that was the story yeah yeah so oh that's cutting that as well isn't it it's like it's character assassination I know you do an awkward laugh when you get it as well because everyone will be... You guys. When really... Really, it's a scathing attack. Yeah, yeah. Bad. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I've got one here. I don't know, again, if it's true, but dinner with Shearer, broom, tray, pint of water.

1:18:02Rob Lee:Yeah. Again, we used to go all out with our wives and we went to a place in Durham. So the whole team would be there, all their wives. and Alan had this trick that he used to do on a lot of people. It was actually a tray full of beers. And so what he'd say, put the tray on the broom and you put it up there and you hold it there. And he'd say to somebody, hold this for a second. And then everyone goes. So everyone walks out. So this is what he does. So he did it on me. So we're all drinking. All the girls are there. It's a big room twice the size of this. All just been done up in Durham. It's all got proper wallpaper.

1:18:48It's done up beautifully.

1:18:51Rob Lee:And then he's done this thing and he's gone, Rob, listen, do this and hold it up there. So I've gone like that and he started walking away. I just let it go. I just fucking put the broom down. You knew what was coming? No. I just let the broom go. Ten pints of beer have just gone fucking smashed. everyone's taking cover behind under the thing we got lobbed out of this like this new place in Durham yeah never went back have I and he went to me well you're meant to just hold it there while everyone laughs and I said well I'm not I'm holding it fuck you well it was like 10 10 pints on a train they just went everywhere and we just again we just all legged it the wives are legging it everyone's legging it out honestly is he could he could he could he could he could he could he could he could he could he could he could he could he he's a good laugh he's good fun he's not like you see on the telly he's he's a he's a practical joker he likes to joke likes to likes to mess around with people but um he doesn't do anything on he's he's clever if there is a clever Geordie is there a clever Geordie I'm not sure but he's quite clever at it but no he is a we've got the same sort of sense of humour he's he's he's quite funny I like that the tray and the pints.

1:20:09Try it, you should try it, it works.

1:20:11Rob Lee:You've got to be able to reach the ceiling with your tray of pints. What's the setup though? How do you get the tray up? So he puts a tray and he's got like a... And you stood on a chair? Yeah, so it probably wouldn't be as high as it was, but he'd sort of get it up into the tray, he's got all the pints on and he pushes it up in the broom and then he smashes it against the side, holds it like that. The wedge. And then he goes, just hold this for a sec. Well, I just do the, I get this over here and then someone's meant to hold it. Then everybody walks out and just leaves and you're like, I just didn't get it.

1:20:47I think it's a leave and run, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. All the pipes don't land on top of your head.

1:20:51Rob Lee:Duck and cover. Yeah, yeah. It's just... Could be dangerous. We've had a laugh and a joke. We've talked about your highs, but we've got to mention the rude hollard spell. Yeah. I'm afraid. It was probably the worst spell at the club, really. The thing is, I just signed a three-and-a-half-year contract with Kenny. So he was never getting rid of me. He couldn't get rid of me. And he didn't know what to do with. There's a few of us he didn't know what to do with. It's like me, John Barnes, Ian Rush, Stuart Pearce. He didn't have a clue what to do with us. Pre-season, he took my number seven shirt off me.

1:21:30Rob Lee:He didn't want me in the team photo. but he didn't tell me himself. He got other people to tell me. So, yeah, he was a bit, he was just arrogant, like the most arrogant man I've ever met in my life. Were you in the Team 4? I was eventually, yeah. I was eventually in it, yeah. I got in the Team 4, yeah. Are we on that photo in fucking Singapore? The press officer came up and told me. I went into the ground to do all that. He said, you haven't got your shirt. What, what do you mean, number seven? He went, no, no, you haven't got any shirt. He said, he don't want to give you any shirt, so. So I trained with Peter Beers who was taking the youth team.

1:22:06Rob Lee:So eventually he said to myself and Stuart Pearce, John Barnes, don't come in if you don't want to come in or go and train with the youth team. So I trained with the youth team for a few months. I went over Maiden Castle and back over Maiden because we were trying at Trestley Street then. So back over Maiden Castle and started training with all the youth team. Did you ever go and see him? I saw him a couple of times. when people are arrogant there's no there's no talking to him there's no do you know what I mean he's sort of like he was he had this he always used to go on about Chelsea and stuff like that I mean once he said to me I see we used to beat you all the time and I'm thinking hang on you're Newcastle manager yeah we used to come up here we used to always beat you and I used to go I don't remember you beating us yeah you remember the cup game we beat you no you beat us on penalties like we went out on penalties no we always used to beat you up here like fuck it now and then I think when we lost the FA Cup final they'd already put on like the the buses the open top buses so we couldn't stop them do you know what I mean so they have to arrange all these we had to go and do the open top buses and we'd lost the FA Cup final and I just remember him all at the top like there's still 100 ,000 fans turned up do you know what I mean which is ridiculous but that's Newcastle for you and I remember him being at the bottom of the bus just reading his paper having his cup of tea while the lads are like and he just sitting there, I thought, arrogant.

1:23:33Rob Lee:He's just arrogant. But I think the turning point was, you know, obviously the Sunderland game when he left out. You know, I wasn't playing. There was a kid called Jane McLean playing in front of me. I was at home. Then he left Alan out. He left Duncan out. And I think if he'd have won that game, I think we'd have all gone. I think all of us would have gone. Are you supporting Sunderland? Yes. Yeah, I've admitted it loads of times. yeah yeah admitted to Kevin Phillips and every time I see Kevin Phillips I buy him a drink so every time we do a few do together like Sunderland and Newcastle with Kevin and even Peter Reid Peter Reid just says we saw the team sheet and he said I didn't even have to do a team talk he said I put it on he says I put it on the in front of the lads and said he wants a sack I said go and give it him and that was it yeah and then two days later he was gone yeah you must have been you know you talked about you could you could soul car you could get when that number seven shit went you must have been fuming yeah everything you've done for the club up to that point yeah I was raging because I'd been there what was I been there then I'd been there seven yeah maybe seven years this guy just walks is it to be fair Kieran Dyer tried to give it because he gave it to Kieran Dyer and Kieran Dyer came up to me and wanted to give it back but because of the rules when I came back into the team when Steve Clarke bought me back because of the rules I wasn't allowed to have it so I had to have number 37 until the end of the season then I got the 7 back yeah

1:25:13what a gun my thoughts exactly

1:25:17Rob Lee:have you seen them since obviously she has had to work with them every time I see Sheer the first time I saw him he was doing some match of the day or whatever and he was sitting next to him and I was texting him and Alan always leaves his phone on, always. But he leaves it on vibrate, so I'm texting him and then when he sort of like comes off air, he'll answer it. I said, you can't. Sitting there with that fucking prick. And he goes, I like him. He said, he's got a nice layer of that shit. Somebody actually messaged about that. Did you used to ring him at half time, She-Ra, knowing that he'd have his phone on?

1:25:52Rob Lee:If we're at any do at all, if he's on stage, yeah, I'll ring him. Yeah, and sometimes it lights up in your pocket like that. Every time he's on stage, oh, yeah, I'll ring. If I see him on live telly, I'll ring, yeah. Has he ever not had it on silent? Yeah, a couple of times he's done it, yeah. What he used to do, when he had his house in Newcastle, his main phone line, because he's got a really big garden, he had it attached to an outside bell. so when he was outside he could hear the phone ring? Oh, that was a mistake for him because I was ringing at two in the morning, three in the morning. Eventually he had to take it down, yeah.

1:26:39Rob Lee:He'd do the same to me. If I'm on live tele, he'd be ringing. Yeah, he'd be ringing. Setting your alarm at half till just to ring one. He was, yeah. So, obviously you're buzzing that, oh, it's gone. and then Bobby Robson comes in. I imagine he would be a little bit like Keegan. Yeah, he had Mick Wadsworth with him, who was good for him, because obviously Mick done all the set plays and everything like that. He was a decent coach, Mick. Bobby was sort of like, you like playing for your granddad or something. He came in and he was just a breath of fresh air. He just spoke to the lads all the time.

1:27:27Rob Lee:he'd make you laugh in training sort of not meaning to sometimes and then but he also had this thing where he sort of like so to get a team together he used to like we used to have lunch and then everyone no one can leave till Bobby's finished so this so honestly we have our start and we have our main meal and then and our suite you know lads are like just get in we'll get out you know he's just doing his soup he's like and he's like we're all finished he's going now I've got to go and get my chicken and he goes up and he's got his napkin on his knees. And we're all now banging on the tables. But he would take his time.

1:28:04He'd take an hour and we're all banging. And he'd go, all right, you can go, lads.

1:28:11Rob Lee:Yeah, off you go. And then they'd want to steam out. He was just brilliant. He was just so – and he was just a great – again, not by coaching-wise because it was a windy day. if it was a massive windy day we'd be doing crossing and heading guaranteed so he'd done all these things he'd probably done in the 60s and 70s but to actually again like Keegan make you feel like 100 foot tall just by speaking to you sort of thing he was brilliant sort of thing did he put you straight back in? yeah straight back in yeah straight back in you know in that period were they having a chance of leaving? thought of leaving?

1:28:50Rob Lee:no I wasn't I just signed a new three and a half year contract I wasn't thinking of leaving and I don't think anybody you know he was trying to push me off to I think Birmingham and Wolves I've got no interest in going there do you know what I mean Peter Taylor rung me about Leicester at the time as well but I had no interest in leaving I liked living up there I liked the area I had great friends on and off the pitch and I'd say no reason to leave I I thought he would leave before me so I just I just bide me time yeah What was big Dunk like? Hard as nails. Just, yeah, Dunk, with Dunk, you see what you're getting.

1:29:31Rob Lee:That's just the way. But I'll tell you what, we used to play like two-touch, and you'd sort of like ping it. Fucking good touch he had. He was a proper player. He could play as well as bash people around, but he was a good footballer. And I think even him and Alan together, on their day, Dunk just wasn't fit all the time, just never fit. When they played together, they played Man United, we played one year, and they were just against Stam and LeBlanc, I think it was. They just battered them, absolutely battered them. Was that when he scored a goal? Yeah. Yeah. I think they both scored that day, but proper player.

1:30:07Rob Lee:Just wasn't fit, really. He wasn't fit for us. Were you at Newcastle when he punched somebody? He did that regular.

1:30:16Rob Lee:The VAR now, he wouldn't get away with anything. Yeah, but he'd come on games. and he'd be winding people up, just being aggressive, really. Never had a play with Nobby Solano's trumpet. No, I still see Nobby now. Would you believe he's one of the ones, he lives in Gosford just outside Newcastle. He's manager of Pakistan now, would you believe. But yeah, still see him. Great guy. Again, he used to ring you up with stupid hours and playing his trumpet. I mean, he'd done it with Bobby once as well, just playing a trumpet and stuff. Just another character, really. good player this is a paid advertisement from BetterHelp if you could make one aspect of your life better what would it be?

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1:32:56were you hoping to just see all that at Newcastle thinking

1:32:59Rob Lee:yeah I think if I stayed another year I would have more than likely stayed up there because I was when I left the Derby Derby was sort of like right in the middle of us my family going home and my eldest was 11 at the time you know to go to senior school or staying in Newcastle. And so I wanted another year. I said, I don't want any more money. But all I wanted was another year to take me past me 30. I'm 36. I'm still playing the team. We're fourth in the league. And I went to see the gaffer and I said, oh, gaffer, look, I don't want any more money, but I'm going to have another year. We're at Christmas sort of thing.

1:33:31Rob Lee:And he went, oh, he said, Rob, I don't do the contracts. The chairman does all the contracts. I went, oh, does he? And I've been here 10 years, so I know Freddie Sheppard pretty well. So I went to the ground. Next day I went to the ground and I see Freddie Shebbard. I said, Chairman, I said, like a new contract. He went, Rob, I don't do the contracts. He said, Bobby does them all. So I said, I thought that was the case, Chairman. So I went back to Bobby and knocked on his door. Gaffer, I said, Chairman says, you do the contract. Yeah, I do them all, son. I do them all. I do them all. I said, well, any chance for a new contract?

1:34:06Rob Lee:Like I said. He went, I said, I can't give you a new contract, son. and your legs are gone. And I knew West Ham, Glen Road at West Ham was interested in me. So I said, oh, listen, fine. I said, can you let me go then? And he went, Jesus Christ, son, I can't let you go. You're my best player.

1:34:26Rob Lee:Honestly, I tell his family, I tell his sons, that's his actual words to me. I was walking out and I was in the car with Alan. Alan was, what are you saying? I told him what he said. He went, fuck, no. I said, what chance you got? And then I sort of like, I don't think the club really wanted me to go to West Ham. They started asking money for me. I've been there, you know, like 10 years. I cost 700 grand and they wanted some money. So I think West Ham's board felt, well, we're not going to pay 250 grand for, you know, a 36-year-old, which was fair. And then Derby coming up and I was going, no, I'm not going Derby.

1:35:02Rob Lee:The second bottom of the league, I'm not going to go Derby. And then I spoke to John Gregory and I loved him. I got on so well with him. and he even said to me come and play with me for six months you want to go to West Ham after that you can go and so I said you'll buy me and then let me go and he said yeah I went to Derby and then you know we got relegated but I stayed another year I just loved it I loved the place I loved Greg's and I had a great time there and the back you had that you always wanted to end up at West Ham somewhere along the line I always wanted to play from West Ham yeah from a kid I just wanted to play I played there because I played at Upton Park a few times because when Charlton lost the Valley, we played probably two seasons at Upton Park.

1:35:44Rob Lee:Upton Park's 20 minutes from my house, so it was perfect for me. But I always wanted to play for West Ham. But I was 38 when I got there, so I just got relegated. We had some great youngsters, Coley and Mickey Carrick. So we had some good players. But it was just, I don't know, It was a time of turmoil for West Ham. It must have been good personally from a sentimental point of view. Yes, just one of those things I always wanted to do. I would never go to West Ham and do corporate stuff because I don't consider myself a West Ham player. But I played 14 times that it was.

1:36:28Rob Lee:My granddad would be very proud because obviously he was a West Ham fan. They often do ask me to go and do corporate. but they're 14 games, so it's a bit of a, you know, I don't like going to do, you know, I played for West Ham because I didn't really. I didn't. I'm more than over Newcastle, so. Lads have spoke about the senior pros that helped them when they were coming through. Did you play that role a bit at West Ham with your Michael Carrick? Yeah, Mark Carrick, Joe Cole. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They used to call me Schiltz after Peter Shilton because he was really old. I see all these players we can think of I see Mickey now and he calls me Schiltz yeah alright Schiltz but yeah I had a really good we had a fantastic so we went to Bournemouth and I remember going to Bournemouth in pre-season and we had Cole who was playing Freddie Canute Jermaine Defoe Carrick Don Hutchinson Repka Anton Furlan we had a unbelievable we beat Bournemouth at the time 5-0 and I thought we're going to piss this league like it's gone down championship it.

1:37:35Rob Lee:And by the time, honestly, by the time the season started, we'd lost seven of them, I think it was. Lost Coley, lost Glenn Johnson, Trevor Sinclair had gone, Freddie Canute had gone. We'd lost like so many. And that's why it was just a, it wasn't the right time for the club really. It was like it was just gone down. I think they got up the following season under Pardew, I think. How old was you then when you signed up Wickham? well I actually after West Ham I retired I actually retired from football and I went to do do you remember they used to do pay-per-view so when Sky first started they'd done pay-per-view games yeah and I was I signed up to do pay-per-view so I was doing that for a couple of months and then John Gorman you know rang me up out of the blue and just said oh no John was obviously with me at England he said listen I've got a really good young team here would you like to come and I was so I think it was about February and I said, oh, listen, I'll see if I can come in.

1:38:32Rob Lee:I miss playing football, see if I can come in and train. And I trained and played till the end of the season and just loved it. I loved it. Loved it with the youngsters. And I stayed another year. So I stayed till I was 40. And to be fair, if Steve Hayes hadn't have sacked John Gorman at the end of the day because his wife died. We had loads. We had a young kid. And our youth team, Mark Filo, he died. then John's wife died of cancer. John was in the right frame of mind and then Steve Hayes got rid of him really. But if he'd have stayed on, I would have probably stayed another year. I would probably stay as much as 40.

1:39:11Rob Lee:People say you never go down the lees because I remember what you... It didn't bother me. I like playing football. So I would do it now if I could. I just like playing football. At whatever level it's at, I just love playing football. Do you have a plan after retirement? No, not at all, no. My plan was I retired about the same time as John Beresford, which was a big mistake. I'm going to be a limousine chauffeur driver. So I retired at the same time. So then when you first get retired, you get offered all sorts of things, like TV in Singapore and Dubai and loads of stuff in Newcastle. So me and Bez were going around doing all this stuff and going out and getting drunk.

1:39:54Rob Lee:I had a great time for a few years and it gets a bit monotonous. but no not really and then I was obviously watching my boys play so you know Ollie was playing at Luton I think it was at the time and Elliot he was still at West Ham probably at the time so I spent a lot of time watching them What sort of football dad were you? Were you going crack on or yeah? Yeah I'd just let them go on with it if they wanted my advice they'd ask for it on the sideline I wouldn't shout at Holly I would tell him afterwards If they asked me, I would tell them. But otherwise, I just left them to get on with it. I just got enough pressure anyway, so I just let them get on with it.

1:40:34Rob Lee:They both had... Elliot's still going, but they both had decent careers. It's hard for them these days. It's young British players coming through. It's a nightmare for them. Yeah, this could be an all-time classic. So, you sat in your local pub Sunday afternoon. which five players would you want with you so it's just a lad's day sat on the drink I'm tipping Bez might be Bez just for pure entertainment value really and the fact that we can send him up to the bar and he always goes up there Alan Shearer I'd always have him he's he's good fun to be around God who else would I have with me

1:41:23I'm taking Aspilio and his ex-missus if you invite Tino

1:41:27Rob Lee:he brings 10 people with him so we saw him in Newcastle for the Liverpool game and he's got an entourage of 10 people God knows who they are he's still got his interpreter that we had that he had 30 years ago but now he's married with kids and got a house but he still brings him out I wonder if he's still at least Disney oh Disney I was going to mention the parties there. Yeah, he hasn't wore his Disney stuff for a long time. Was it Disney or Warner Brothers? No, it was Disney. Yeah? Yeah, it was Disney, yeah. Always in fact, he's got a ranch out in Medlin. What's that? The only thing I know of Medlin is in Colombia.

1:42:05Rob Lee:It's where Pablo Escobar was. And he's got a ranch out there where he's got horses and a pitch. Is that cattle or plants? Yeah, could be either. And he keeps inviting us out for his 50th, like eight years ago. He invited us all out. So he wanted me, Alan, Bez, a few of the other lads, Les, to go and play a seven-a-side against the Columbia, next Colombian, so Hidwita and Valderrama. And I mentioned it to Alan. No chance. So we'll get kidnapped. We're not going. He had Bez going, yeah, I'm going. Come on, Alan, I'm going. So, yeah, Tino don't speak a word of English. That's the problem. He's got a couple of words he says and he's no interest in learning English.

1:42:59Rob Lee:I wouldn't think he'd be there. He does cameos. So I don't know who he does it, considering he's got three words. Happy birthday. Yeah. So we've got Bez, Big Al. Les I like Les's company Les Fernand's a good company always gets a lot of girls come across as well so God bless you Les and then I'll probably have a couple of Geordies I'll get a great relief Clark I'll get a great relief Clark and Steve Watson I think they'll be you know he wouldn't want to be in your quiz team but they're good fun to be around do you know what I mean so FD Bill I imagine that FD Bill I know I'm thinking just pints or is there a Al's Guinness now so he likes Guinness the rest of the lads will be yeah the rest of the lads will be on pints I think well Rob thanks very much cheers cheers