Seth Johnson | Houliers Booty Call

29:58Yeah. So did you just move down as a family? Yeah, so mum and dad split up when I was about four and my mum didn't want us growing up in Birmingham, basically. So, oh no, I moved to Devon when I was seven, sorry. Mum and dad split up when I was four, moved to Devon when I was seven. So I was playing football locally from about nine, I think, for a team called Dawlish Generals. I played for Devon, south-west of England, all this stuff, but never played for Torquay or Exeter. I played in a cup final, my last ever game for Dawlish. We played on Exeter City's ground, St James Park, whatever it's called.

30:37And in a cup final, and Alan Ball was at the game and he was the manager of Exeter at the time. And he was trying to ring me, but I was about 13 by this time. So he rang me and was trying to get me to sign for Exeter and I was like, it's too late, I'm at Crewe. Because previously I was at Crewe and we were meant, sorry, I was at Dawlish and we were meant to be playing Crewe. Dario brought a team down, like an under, whatever it was, 12's team, yeah, under 12's team would have been, so I was about 11. We were meant to play them, but the game got called off, and we didn't know it was before mobiles and all that stuff.

31:07So me and a few of the lads from the team turned up, and the crew lads were training. And Dario said, do you want to join in? And we were like, yeah. So we all joined in, got in touch with my mom, and spoke to the club and just said, want to get him up training up here and stuff like that. So I just go up and train in the holidays, get the train up. Or I used to go with another lad, I was saying to you before, from Plymouth, a lad called James Dungy got with his family or parents. And then got to 14 and I ended up moving up there. You used to have a class academy. They used to play against all the big ones, didn't they?

31:45Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so we'd play. Yeah, we'd play all the man you must. For a parent, I imagine, even at 14, you know, just letting your son go off somewhere else. My mum sort of jokingly said to Dario, he's up here that often, he might as well move up here at 14. And then Dario was like, oh, that's a great idea. And then my mum's like, no, I'm only joking. And he's like, no, no, do you think you'd be interested in all that? And my mum's like, I don't know. And I was like, yeah. Because I just knew that, because I was missing out on all the training during the week. I was only going up on weekends.

32:19and obviously some weekends I couldn't make it or whatever, I didn't go up. So I was just missing out on the stuff that I knew I needed if I wanted to have a chance of being a footballer. So it was my decision, even though my mum was obviously not... To leave home at 14, that's massive, isn't it? Yeah. But it is, listen, you know, like when you're a kid, you just want to be a footballer, don't you? So that was all I wanted to do. Thick as fuck at school, didn't have no interest at school. It was just football was the only thing. I'm into and if I want to make it then I've got to you know make the sacrifice to go and so I've missed out on all the technique training so all the lads then were way ahead of me I just had a really good attitude and couldn't run about run about but the going up there and then I'll train literally every day I'll be like 14 training with the under 11s like Dean Ashton was at Crewe but he's a I think he's three or four years younger than me I'll be training with his age group just technique work and just stuff that I'd be missing out on.

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34:33We've had a couple of lads on who came through at Crewe and I think it might have been Gary Roberts. I don't know Gary Roberts. He's a good player when he was a kid. And he said that they didn't match Dario's valuation of him. so basically the move didn't happen. Was there anything like that where you tried to put the blockers on you leave and crew when it came to her? Nah, never. They didn't understand, didn't they? Yeah, but I'm... No, no, but I'd never... The things with Dario, you don't... There's no negotiation with Dario. Like, if you've got an agent and you're up for a new contract, he's saying you're earning this, you're earning this, you're earning this, that's it.

35:11There's no negotiation. That's as much as we can afford for you and that's what you're getting. You either take it or you don't. so if you said I've got my agent here you're like I'm not speaking to your agent I've just told you what you're getting so he was he was like strict you know what I mean but he must be one of the biggest transfer fees recoup for them because Ashton went for 3.75 or something maybe yeah to Norwich was I you must have been second I was about 3 I think yeah 3 Nick Powell I think he went to Man U for 5 was that yeah 4 or 5 I think yeah so at the time it was and it was Derby's record signing at the time so that's why it was like a big move for me but no he would never stand in your way but he'd be realistic with you and say I don't think you're ready like you know if you That can be tactical as well mind from his point of view but maybe with some players like ones who haven't come through the academy or something but he'd be I'd trust him like I'd take his word on or listen to him and trust him on what he'd say about, you know, you're not quite ready, you need another 30 games or whatever.

36:23But it never got to that anyway. Just basically the first time he spoke to me about leaving was when he came down to Bournemouth. What were you like as a fella, Dario? Because I've always got this impression from Fort Verdon, like just a weirdo. Yeah, I think a lot of the lads thought he was weirdo. He was, he's just football mad. Everything is around football. but his standards and in training and stuff, if you hit a shot over the bar, you're a ball boy for the next half hour. You'd just be stood behind the goal because he didn't like, he had real high standards with everything and just like your behaviour.

36:59When I would say, I noticed it a lot more when I moved up there. Some of the players at my age would just shit themselves and say, no, Dario's watching. He'd have that presence where, and even the change rooms as a first team player, and just go quiet and change rooms when he walked in. It was just like... Respect? Yeah, maybe, yeah. And definitely fear with the young lads. Because some lads, they'll be unbelievable and then Dario will turn up and they'll just fall like a pack of cards. It's weird. And what was the fear of? Just probably how strict he was. Not so much strict. So would you get a bollocking or is it more a fear of disappointing him?

37:38Yeah, maybe. he just wouldn't have people making bad decisions or wrong decisions and just, yeah, he was, he was brutal to be fair. But I loved, I liked, I preferred him. I didn't like managers like, oh, you're doing great. I liked, I liked, I needed to kick up the arse kind of thing to get me on my attorney. Yeah, we talked about this, only different people reacting different ways to different things. Yeah, always my management was horrendous like that. It treated what I was saying. so he just basically just but it felt it was the right treatment for you yeah I'd sort of need a little little kick up the arse kind of thing do you think there might have been players who could have gone on that he probably had the worst as many as he did there's a few lads younger lads who in training would be unbelievable when they'd come to games and they just wouldn't wouldn't wouldn't produce it I'm not sure if this was Darry but there's a lad who I grew up with so when I lived with that family from 14 to 16 there was a lad who was at the national school called Peter Smith he was at Lillishaw when I got 16 I moved into digs with him with another family and he was the most complete footballer you've seen at that age he was like two foot everyone wanted him Man United everyone wanted him didn't see him as much from 14, 16 but in 13, 14 around that he was just a joke but he had nothing about him you know like just had no drive and Dario used to hammer him for it He'd be like, every time I speak to you, you're just looking at me, that gormless face, you're not like any oomph.

39:13If he's doing that to me, I'd be like fucking spitting on the floor and fucking, you know what I mean? And he played a handful of games for Crewe first team and that was it. Never scored for him. But me and him at 14, he was light years ahead of me. Light years. It's mad that. Is that probably the first time we've ever heard of Dario maybe? So whether that's down to Dario being like that with him or just because that's his personality because he's like he's one of my best mates but he was like the most laid back man ever so it's like he sort of needed a rocket with his arse but he didn't do nothing he just weren't he weren't like that that's the first time we've heard him maybe having a detrimental effect on I don't know yeah like I say I don't know if that was that's just how he was with Taff his name is from Wales Taff Peter but that could have been anyone I think with Taff he was just so late like laid back and...

40:08Do you ever get any... Sorry, Chris. Would Dario be arsed? As long as he gets six out of ten through, would he be arsed about the three or four who maybe never went through? No, but he would... He just wanted to develop players. So we'd get players from non-league who he'd spot something in the 21 rules who's got some pace where he can work on his defence, blah, blah. Or we'd get people like Sav who are at Man U remember Ashley Westwood not the centre half I played with him at Alipol I think right yeah so he'd come in he was about 18 19 signed him on a tribunal trying to think or whatever Phil Charnick from Liverpool so these players who weren't quite up to their the highest standard would come to career and then Dario would he'd proper coach you like he wouldn't just put sessions on he would coach you know players and work on your game and what you're good at and improve you and develop you on stuff so he just want to improve everyone and obviously if it was their own you know homegrown players and obviously that's even better but he had he had good coach there Steve Holland was unbelievable away from the football did you ever get any any bother being a young lad in digs away from home boys were we boys uh no not really uh trying to think digs when do you start drinking well I always look young so if I go into a pub I'll be shit myself at like 17 thinking I'm not even going to get served here we don't know what to ask for or I'll just get someone else to ask me but I'd be about 17 when I was drinking but I got in one fight actually when I was uh I just got into Cruz first team yeah and some lad who was at my school he's older than me was just in my face basically so yeah did that go back to the club no didn't know but we got i did get uh arrested a few days later but

42:08that wasn't to do with me well it sort of was but it was i um there was a lad when we was at crew i'd been in around the first i played a few times in the first team so i was like something still a i was a pro but with a with a youth trained with it got changed with a youth team lads on that and one of the lads we were injured we'd had it we'd and crew were playing that night so it was a home game you know why chase after going to the games and that so um yeah we were 17 because the lads could drive i didn't pass my driving test until i was 20. this lad who was injured with me took one of the other lads cars while he was training to go back to his digs to get his track suit for the game first team game so anyway as soon as he's got in the car he's driving like an absolute fucking lunatic so i'm like put my belt on so anyway we've drove back to his digs which is probably about four or five mile away he's going flying down some country lane he's wrote the car off and there's two lads in the back where we crashed and i've like because i'm I'm all right, because I've got my belt on.

43:13So I just got out of the car. The two lads were about 100 yards. They'd flew out the back windscreen, the back window, covered in blood and just running down the road towards us. So we left the car, ran to his digs. So me and him... He's his track, isn't he? Yeah, he's his tracker, yeah. So me and him got arrested and the other two got taken to hospital. So, yeah, we got in a bit of shit for that. Fucking hell. You're not lucky. Yeah. and so yeah it was yeah I was telling you which one I'd rather be like would I rather get arrested or like yeah at the time the lad whose car we took because I just thought getting a car and go to his digs getting stuff and come back the lad I used to go to the same school as him and stuff and his parents wanted me sacked like with Dario they put him under severe pressure to get me sacked yeah Only a passenger.

44:11Yeah, yeah, so. It was like, yeah. But, no, didn't happen. Lucky to have fucking played a game. Could have been fucking brown bread. Yeah, yeah. And would Dario go down the anger route or are they really disappointed? He was, he suspended, he sent me back to Devon for a few weeks, I think. Yeah, he said you need to, like, like basically that's your sort of punishment kind of thing. He was, I think he was all right. he said he was never going to sack me for that kind of thing and the other lads didn't get sacked either so just moving on to Derby did you know you were playing well enough to be getting linked with the England call up erm I'll say sort of a little bit because it was Peter Taylor and he was our because he was in charge for that one game you know with the first game that Beckham was captain and he was our under 21s manager and we he got bombed out for the other 21s for no reason.

45:11We hadn't lost a game and they bombed him out and put Howard Wilkinson in charge. So I knew he'd like the young lads. But no, I wasn't expecting a call-up, no. But I knew he was going to give a go for the boys that were coming through at the time. There's people like me. Gareth Barry was already in the team. Michael Ball. I think Kieran was already, Kieran Dyer was already playing. Paul Robinson, I think, got in the squad. Wes Brown, maybe. there was a lot of younger lads who got named in the squad. So, yeah, it was a bit of a shock. Yeah, obviously I was only 21, I think, at the time. But I was doing okay at the time at Derby.

45:49Did you sneak out? No, definitely not. You fucking shitbag. This was before I got banned, I think. Oh, was that? Yeah. So, yeah, I must have been 21, 22 then when I got banned, yeah. So, yeah, I must have been 21. that must have been the following summer yeah ah for the year 2001 when i play for england still got your shirt i have yeah yeah well probably would because they're baggy as are they back then still be a bit tight on me but yeah got some yeah gareth syfe gate has played he was it's like it's a little who's who's on the pitch for early oh they had all i come on next to Del Piero when I got brought on the sub Del Piero I was coming at the same time they had all the Costa-Curta Maldini Del Piero Gattuso scored Nesta I think was playing as well Buffon in goal did you get booked?

46:47no I didn't get booked nearly scored though I should have scored should I yeah Buffon made I'm not even just saying this but he made an absolute worldy save he did I was about five yards out I'd just come on literally just walked on the pitch cross come in I've nicked in front, just got sort of a toe to it and he just flicked it over the bar from about five yards away. That was like my first touch. I've been on the pitch for 20 seconds. What were you like going into that, you know, like the England squad? Yeah, I didn't like it. Did you not? Nah. You didn't like it? Nah, it was... So in 2000 and why?

47:202001. It was fine with the younger lads, obviously. It was, as a lot of people say, it was very... Clicky? Yeah. yeah so I knew a few like Rio had played in the 21s I think Frank Lampard I can't remember but there's quite a lot of lads I did know but the older players weren't they wouldn't have nothing to do there's only Phil Neville was the only one who came up to me and spoke to me he was like he knew Danny from Man Ut and he was at Derby he was ledged to be fair he was spot on that's shit innit it was just how it was then it was just you know like you wouldn't dare speak to anyone when you come down for meals and apart from the, like Gareth Barry was a mate of mine and so he'd speak to them but you would never, and you'd sit with them.

48:05Ended up clinging to Phil. Yeah. Because he's the only one that spoke to you. Phil was the only one. Yeah, Phil. He was, and Southgate during the game because I come on that left wing back and he was playing left centre back. He was unbelievable with me. Didn't stop talking, encouraging, telling you where to be and all that. He was class. So bad that, isn't he? I mean, in 2001, who was the older players? I think Sal Campbell played, David James in goal, Yeah, so a few older boys, which I think is just how it was then. It was just a bit weird. Do you think they were the opinion of, oh, it's just that young one from Derby?

48:39Yeah, probably. Do you think if you've seasoned England International, them young lads coming in and they're going to be the ones that you... To be fair, after the game, we were flying back and I had my shirt and I went round the squad to sign it for me, basically. And they were, like, Beckham was going, oh, I can't believe he saved that. and stuff so they were you know they were fine but it was just i think a lot of people have said about it was just really weird back then it worked they wouldn't fucking bring you in and look after you yeah i was jim smith for you brilliant yeah i loved him yeah a few stories that was that was a factor as well when i signed for darby just yeah instantly liked him he was just just charismatic and funny and just didn't give a fuck.

49:24Was it to Dario? Yeah, a little bit. So when I went down and spoke terms with Jim about my deal and all that, so Jim Smith, there was no one else, me and Jim were in the room. Dario drove me down because I didn't have a driving license at the time. God, did he even get a few quid, Dario? Yeah, he got weighed in, I think, yeah. So, yeah, when I spoke to Jim and Jim offered me my terms, he goes you got this this this and i was like okay thinking fucking hell that's like unbelievable for me that and then i told my agent and he went right i'll ring jim and tell him stop i'll tell him to stop taking the piss so then he got all my contract redone more than what jim had offered but as soon as i met him i just loved him he was and he was a big factor in me signing it was a lot of tough love and you said you respond better to that yeah yeah jim smith style yeah oh he got mental he'll in training and that.

50:16He would go, what the fucking hell are you doing? He would just go mad at the lads. Can you imagine him getting a really red head? Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I really liked him. It was class. And he was good. He weren't like a dinosaur. Do you know what I mean? He was, he knew what he was doing and they might have thought it, because you wouldn't really see him that much, but you're coming on a Thursday, you know, when you're doing 11 v 11 and he'd just go fucking mental at everyone. Just go mad. The foreign players would just be like, he needs to calm down. yeah i loved i loved it what were in between saturday and thursday then i think you're probably working on his drink face i think getting drunk yeah yeah he was calling yeah what were you though were there a story when he he saw a formation of ducks or geese or something at the hotel no i don't remember that he changed the formation or something because maybe yeah he was really superstitious i'm mad like because i used to always have my shirt out always did and then we we i think we played leicester once he's got to tuck your fucking shirt and i'm in i always have it even just fucking tuck it in for today's game i was like all right so i tucked it in and we won then he was like right give you know he was like weird like that he was he was brilliant though did you know you're on the cusp of getting a another big move especially after the england call up and yeah there was a lot a lot a lot well i said a lot there's a bit of talk about stuff and that and I was doing okay at the time even though Derby weren't doing that well I was doing all right so and the Leeds move was a bit of a no-brainer really Derby needed the money again Leeds were they must have been close to around the top of the Premier League at the time Derby were near the bottom and I knew a lot of the lads from under 21s and under 18s so probably knew seven or eight of the players at Leeds and it was a great move for me at the time.

52:10Do you know what I mean? I've never really been injured by then. So it was a bit of a no-brainer, you know? Christmas shopping all done, gents? Little bits and bobs, but nowhere near yet. I messed up last year. You know, going last minute, buying gift cards and stuff people didn't want or need. Not this year. What are you doing this year? I've gone with the aura frame. It's unbelievable. Good thinking. thoughtful present I'm all about family and friends well we've talked about it it's so easy to use brilliant because all them photos that you've got on your phone you know nice pictures with a family pets pets yeah pets and they just stay on your phone don't they yeah you never really go through the archives really do you not with the aura you just couple of taps in the frame on your mantelpiece I think you've hit them on the head with thoughtful because women do when you put a bit of thought into stuff, don't they?

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55:02ends June 30th terms at aka.ms slash college pc I need to speak about the contract negotiations this is like a urban myth an urban myth in football an urban myth off the streets what I imagine or have heard from it is you went in 1 in 15 and Rizdale says look we can't get any more than 35 Seth so sign it or fuck off no not true one I wasn't there for the negotiations I don't want to start talking money because I sound like a bit of a bell end but I was on that's what I was on I was on 15 grand a week at Derby I just signed a new deal like I said I played for England I just signed a new deal at Derby because when I originally signed for Derby Jim Smith wanted me to sign a four year deal and I said I only want to sign a three year deal and he was like why and I said well because if I do well for a year a year and a half you're going to come back to me with a new deal and he was like right okay then so i signed a three-year deal and they they come back to me after a year and a half so i was on i was on 15 at derby and then obviously the fee got agreed and you know uh personal terms my agent rang me up and jump to tell you what yeah please so it was 27 29 31 33 and 35 so 35 was my last year of the contract but i wasn't even there the last year of my contract so that that was still unbelievably amazing like amazing deal but i knew what i wasn't i didn't even know what to expect i wasn't even thinking about the money but i knew it's gonna be more than what i was on at derby do you know what i mean um so it was it never really it was only the fact that we'd done so shit and got into financial that it all come out and you know got hammered about it basically what were the myths that you turned up and had a conversation with me you'd offered so much and you didn't say anything so you went right I'll give you 35 then but again I wasn't there so the only thing about my contract was that it in my third year was it fourth year I snapped my crew shit so the year we went down the year we got relegated from the Premier League I snapped my crew shit about a month two months to go before the end of the season so I've snapped my crew shit we've been relegated to the championship and my wages went up two grand a week because of my contract there was no relegation clause in the contract so I think that was a lot of the did that get out to the fans yeah well I think so yeah well I didn't tell them I am now but I did tell them so but I think that was just the it was just how it happened if we'd have done well and listen I didn't do well when I was there and I was always injured Were you injured in the first season?

57:57Yeah I got injured quick I got injured because when I first went there I was subbed for the first quite a few games and I played a few then I got a dead leg against Leicester but he was trying to get my thigh drained had like a blood clot thing in it I had to get it drained and then I come back from that and then ruptured my thigh the first game back. And I'd never had a muscle injury before. And then I had about probably seven operations while I was there on my knees. Jeez. It was just... Frustrating time. Yeah, it was a frustration. Obviously, I really wanted to do well there. They'd sign me for a lot of money at the time and I'm big wage and stuff.

58:40So I was desperate to do well, but it just didn't work out. You know what I mean? And when I did play, I didn't play well enough. I didn't but then every time you did play you're coming back for an injury yeah well it was getting to the point where when I was coming back from injuries in the press I wanted to speak to me I didn't want to speak to him because I didn't want to go I'm back fit now I want to because I'd just keep breaking down again and the injuries I was getting were from fuck all it wasn't like someone was smashing me about in tackles when I snapped my crew I just changed direction it was at Blackburn actually and my knee just it was like a gun going off and my knee just popped then I got an infection and I ended up having like four operations on it in so it was just one of them times it just just didn't happen didn't work out it's weird isn't it because he played all them games at crew all the games at derby yeah so i even even when i went back to derby the second time i played i think i played more games for derby then than i did for leeds in like four years so that's about ridgedale did he just want to be like one of the lads yeah he did yeah i remember on a christmas do when the lads threw him in like this little it was like a water feature wait a minute wait a minute why the fuck is Rysdale on the Christmas do oh no sorry a club Christmas do he fucking did want to build a lot of water feature Rysdale's in founcing dresses a banana

1:00:07so we were it was like a club doing like I can't remember one of the big pavilion things but they had like a water feature a little walkway that you go over and I'm sure like Rio and Robbie Fowler they could pick one and just threw him in his fucking ding didn't that yeah were he alright with that or yeah he fucking loved it didn't he I could just have it like David Brett like come on lads water dripping off his face come on lads Rio Robbie top man aw what they like they threw me they threw me in the fountain again you know guess what's happened love they threw me in the fountain just going to go and speak to the punters now the lads have thrown me in the fountain I'm just trying to work out what now 27 this is 2001 yeah I signed for Leeds 2001 is this like top prem money at this point not within the squad as well what I was on the Chelsea midfielder they would have been on a lot bigger money him than me do you think yeah just kind of put it into context is like so I don't know I mean Schmitzer will you been there yeah it was my shit to be fair the leads would like top four anyway at these were the pushing for it yeah so that first season we finished fifth and O 'Leary got sacked that year because he brought a book out and I think he mentioned Rizdale in it or something but we were top around Christmas because I remember I was injured as normal and there was about 10 of us injured like first team players like Rio Michael Bridges like would get just loaded the whole team well that could be the whole team were just out injured and then we lost at Cardiff in the FA Cup in the third round.

1:02:15And then, yeah, we end up finishing fifth, which... Do you think he just put all his eggs in one basket and get into the Champions League in terms of the money they were spending and the players they were bringing in? Well, the year I signed, they didn't qualify. They got to the semi-final the year before, but they didn't qualify the year I... They must finish fifth again, I suppose. Yeah. But then when I signed, I signed in, I don't know, was it November or October, November? I'm not sure. and then Robbie Fowler signed a couple of weeks later. So, yeah, they're having a right go. And the squad was outrageous at the time.

1:02:49You know, we had basically two internationals in every position. We had like five forwards, you know. A lot of characters as well. Yeah. Oh, God, yeah. Yeah, there's some funny boys there. It was like, it was proper, yeah. Who's ruling the roost? Tell us the Gary Kelly one. Which one? Jesus. I'd love to meet him, you know. He's like the nicest geezer ever, but he's fucking balmy. He's mental, yeah. But he's brilliant to have around the place and looks after all the lads. If the manager's digging you out, he won't have it. He's like proper class with everyone, yeah. But on a night out, he's just fucking mad.

1:03:35He just gets fucking steaming, just does mad stuff. But they're a great lancer. Do you like getting naked? Yeah, he liked getting naked, yeah. He liked just diving in. Like, if that was a big bin, they'd just dive in head first, like, just in a bar and stuff. He'd just mad. Yeah, but, like, the nicest skis that would do anything for him. He was sort of like a good pro, didn't he, when you said he wanted to do it? Yeah, that's what he was. He was like... And he wasn't even that old then. He'd only been probably 27 or something or whatever. He wasn't, like, he was 35. But, yeah, you go out of him, he'd go outside for a cigarette and he'd be giving fucking people 20 quids and just, mate, he's just tipping everyone.

1:04:15Not in a flash, are we? No, no, no, at all. Mate, when he'd be outside on his own, he'd walk out and he'd be, yeah, mate, he'd just... proper genuine geezer. What were the, Kelly Kelly won the Blackwell? Kevin Blackwell? Yeah. Fucking hell. Well, which one were Gary Kelly? Over the summer, was he, Oh yeah. What a prick. That one. Have you had that on here? No. All right. So yeah, one, one, some of Blackwell got the job and, uh, Kel's obviously run away for the summer doing whatever. And Gary Kelly, uh, rang Blackwell on a private number and going, what a prick. Down the phone to him. And he kept doing it.

1:05:00And then Kevin Blackwell's going, is that you, Kels? And the guys would just put the phone out. What a prick. Just keep doing it all the time. Petting sound, isn't it? Accurate, though.

1:05:17Do you know what you were saying about Jim Smith and Dario, Darryl getting the best out of you at. Yeah. What was the difference, similarities with O 'Leary? You know, talk about the injuries, keep that separate, but when you did play, did you get the same impact from them? No, O 'Leary was similar. You never really saw O 'Leary. It was only when we started having a beast that he'd come in every day. He wouldn't come in every day. He'd let Eddie Gray, Roy Aitken take the sessions and stuff. So he wouldn't see much. which is the only one I think the press got older that he wasn't even in taking training or anything or even there, he started doing it more.

1:05:56But he was only there for that, you know, six, seven months or whatever. And then he got sacked, but it was just so stop start that season for me. But he played me in a few big games. The first game I come back from in, we're playing Chelsea away. And then when I've injured and I played in quite a few of the big games, but I liked him. He was good but he was different to what I'd had previous. What do these managers do? What do they do from Saturday to coming in the club? It's quite common, isn't it? Golfing and that. It is quite common. Is it common now? I don't know about now. I don't know about now.

1:06:36Yeah. Well, that's the thing. So with Grady at Croup, he'd have to take every session. If you're like an under 13, there used to be an AstroTurf next to the stadium. he would take the under 13s when crew have got a home game so he would leave that session at half seven going do a team talk for the first team and they'll go out and play well quite to eight yeah he'd have to take he did everything every training session every like he's just in charge of the lot intense and we had mils danny mills on and he was going on about it still getting paid years later and stuff was it oh yeah were you this in a similar no i got i got uh so i was there for four years even though i only played 59 games um but yeah i still had i can't remember i got i got some dough for my last year i think but no they weren't paying me for years and years i don't think because when i went when i went to derby i went there for literally fuck I just wanted to play because I'd not played for over a year and Leeds wouldn't play me one more game.

1:07:41So if I played 60 games, Derby would get 250 grand. So I was stuck on 59 games. So I knew they weren't going to play me. And was he up front because who would have come in then? His chairman? Ken Bacon. Yeah, yeah. And was he up front with you? Never spoke to him, but he slagged me off in the press and stuff about the money side of it. But I was injured at the time and I was like, well, do you not think I want to do well here? Do you know what I mean? Why would I ever go anywhere and want to do shit and just take money every week? It was just coming further from the truth, do you know what I mean?

1:08:19Obviously, all Leeds fans hate me now, but it's just how it was. I couldn't get fit and when I did play, I didn't play as well as what I could and should have done. were you were you out my timeline might be off here but were you out on the infamous night Belly and Woodgate yeah no were you there then though no oh right I wasn't there then but I was I knew Woody from England under 18 so when I was at Derby we'd still be in touch and the weekend when it all come out I was playing at Middlesbrough for Derby and Leeds had been given like a week or two off haven't they that's why they all went out.

1:08:58I think they didn't have games or whatever. So Woody come to watch Derby play at Middlesbrough and then me and him went out to Tall Trees in Middlesbrough after the game. And then the next day he got a phone call about, because I think it was a previous weekend where it all happened. And then the police and the press and everyone got hold of it. So that was on the Sunday when he was on the phone to Bowyer and that's when it all just fucking went mad like, yeah. Can you tell us about the other night you had with him? yeah so me and my mate uh lummox his name he used to live with me but he's like the barmiest geez you've ever met in your life we were not andy griffin come out andy griffin come up and he saw us drinking and he just fucked off after about an hour he's like i'm not i'm not staying around here it's like during the day so we've got to go out of all woodie's mates around middlesbrough and we meant to be staying at uh woody's house so me and my mate drove up

1:09:54and Woody and his mate, I don't know what happened, but they went outside and ended up getting through a bit of a scuffle. And the geezers cracked Woody and broke his jaw. And he's come inside and he was like, oh, get us my jacket. Because his jaw was hanging off and then he's fucked off and gone to hospital. So me and my mate were like, we went back to Woody's house and his dad's there. He's like, where's Jonathan? And I was like, I think he's still out. I didn't know what to do. So me and my mate just got out of there. And I remember Rio texting the next morning saying, what happened last night or something?

1:10:30I said, oh, mate, we don't want to know. And he went, please tell me he didn't get in any trouble. And I was like, yeah, it's not good. Because I think it did come out in the press, didn't it, that he broke his jaw down, I think. So, yeah, it was... Because I think I remember told O 'Leary at the time, I said, hey, we're not there to have a meal with him. We went out for dinner. and then like he obviously got a scrap of his mate and but we didn't know what happened we were all just here and then the next week he's just gone outside and a nice coat yeah nice jacket yeah I'm going to be angry about get out of my jacket I'm in that that's why cold outside yeah so it's like it was just yeah bad news that was it was like there was a bit of an injury curse though wasn't it at Leeds Bridgie just in general yeah yeah Bridgie Yeah.

1:11:17Was out for years. Fell by years. Vahola struggled. Yeah, Woody was always injured. I was always injured. Bridgie, yeah. Eric Bakery done his cruise ship at a similar time to me. Yeah, Robbie had a few problems. Did you see any reason for it? Like, were you over-training or...? No, I don't think so. I don't know. With mine, it was just changing direction when I'd done my cruise ship. But I'd done my cartilages in training, just clashing knees with someone, not even anything. and it just got... Unlucky. Dust for knees, I think, yeah. Yeah, I suppose so. Considering I'd never really been injured before that and then obviously when I went back to Darwin, my last game was, I'd done my knee, but that was, again, no one near me, my knee was just fucked.

1:12:06But yeah, it was just strange, strange really. Did you get a lot of stick from the Leeds fans? Yeah. At the time? Yeah. As well as... Yeah. Did it stop you going out? they weren't too bad when I was playing for them I would never get any much hassle when I was out but when I left and you know when I went back there you know for Derby they were one greedy bastard and all that stuff and what a waste of money you know the usual which is fair enough but yeah going out I used to have a bar in my house anyway so I used to just if we'd had a bad result I'd just stay in my mates would just stay in the house Can't pull a bird though, can you sit at home?

1:12:47Nah, I couldn't do that anyway That was the problem with that one Yeah, try and stay in There's no point

1:13:00We're only stopping for a second, gents But it is for a good bloody reason Look at that That, you holding that up Has just taken over from that jacket thing As the best garment on display yeah it looks it's immaculate isn't it let's be honest feels superb we've got to say a massive thank you to one hill sportswear for once again support supporting the entire series and producing those beautiful garments if you haven't got one already or you wouldn't mind one for christmas i'd put it on the list more gift ideas for loved ones yes yeah well the link's in the description if you want to get yourself involved with the under the cost shirts or if you want to sort your own team out because the quality of kits that you can sort your own team out.

1:13:49Four to six weeks from design to delivery. And that's designing your own as well. Yeah, so you design your own kit, they put it together, Bosch, four to six weeks. Is there a maximum order? No maximum. There is a minimum, seven, I believe. Seven. Yeah, but no maximum. So you can go from your under five teams right through to your first team. kick the club out you're gonna be coming out looking smart on that field do you think would you say Chris that you were one nil up before the whistles even being blown with them yeah two two two nil two nil up their heads have gone that is an XL and I would recommend we've had a few messages to size up on this new style okay so I've tried large in both and the new style was a little bit tighter so is it not just that you popped us that's not just coming as well Christmas ball well the link's in the description if you want to sort your own team out I'll get yourself on under the cost shirt just clickety clickety click thank you very much again O 'Neill Sportswear was there ever a time when you felt like you were off and running so when you got your first goal did you think right what a lead yeah now's my time to put a run together not so much Terry Venables because he I don't think he was having me from the start but I ended up playing and because that's when they were getting rid of everyone.

1:15:11So Venables come in first day. This is when all the big boys were there, like Rio and everyone. And he went, we're going for the league this year. So this is like a year, just a year that O 'Leary went. And we're all like, I think I'm fucking hell. Quality. Next minute, Rio's gone, Bowyer's gone, Cure's gone. Everyone's gone, pretty much. And then I had a chance to go to Middlesbrough. and he said to me but I wasn't really playing at the time and he said we don't really want you to go we need you haven't got anyone else pretty much and I said well I'm not playing so I just want to go and play Steve McLaren was the manager and George Botang was in midfield at Milo's back so he wanted me and him in midfield there so I went up agreed everything agreed read my deal did the medical all sorted driving home failed the medical they rang up I had a tear on my cartilage that I didn't know about.

1:16:05Jesus. So, yeah, I found that medical and then I went back and played for Leeds on the weekend. I imagine the more you were injured, like, you know, I can imagine you're getting the stick coming from the fans but I can't imagine anybody was, I know you mentioned that Middlesbrough early on but after that I can't imagine there were many clubs that would have bought you because of the injuries that you had. So when I did sign for Derby I didn't even do it, they didn't bother doing a medical with me because I knew I'd just fail it. So they basically just moved me about a bit and was like, yeah, you're fine.

1:16:40So as an individual, what can you do in that situation? Yeah. Obviously wages are going to be an issue as well for clubs, aren't they? Like they say they want to take you on loan, a lot of the time they're going to have to pay for your wages. But yeah, I ended up sorting an agreement out with Leeds and obviously went for nothing back to Derby. so then I literally I think I was I think I was on like a grand a week at Derby when I went back but it wasn't honestly it wasn't about I just wanted to play and then because I remember going back to Derby Phil Brown do you have Phil Brown? Oh I had Phil I liked him no one else really liked him yeah everybody everybody we've had on likes him oh they do yeah it's only John who don't like him alright no he's alright I know why you'd like him he was quality of me and as soon as I got there one of the coaches said oh you need to do a pre-season and I was like this was like the season just started so it was August time I went I've just fucking done the pre-season I've just been away pre-season training with Leeds but they you know they couldn't play me and they weren't going to play me so I need to play some games so I said I ain't doing a pre-season I said I've just done one and they were like alright so then I went I think I was subbed for the first couple of games and then started playing and then Phil got sacked then because he had a bit of a raw deal at Derby to be fair.

1:18:01So you just wanted to get that playing basically? Yeah, that's, you know, when I'd missed, I'd say played 59, that's not even starting 59 games, that's playing 59 appearances in four years. And I'd missed, I think I was out from like May till the, I was out for nine months with my crew shirt and then I played a couple of games and then realised, and then I was doing right and then they wouldn't pick me again. And I didn't know why. It was Blackwell. And then it was because that if I played one more game, then Lee's had to play a derby. So how did you find out? Did somebody tell you? I remember I found out because at the time, I was that desperate to play and do what I was going to pay the money myself.

1:18:42I was just going to like, can I pay it so I can just play and fucking... So you found out it was 250 grand? Yeah, but it was just like, I just that desperate to get back playing. I hadn't played for, I've done absolutely shit there over them years and then been out for nine months. Just want to play kind of thing. So that's one of the weird politics techs over, isn't it? Yeah. But then, obviously, if I'd have played one more game, I would have got 250 grand, but I didn't play one more and then I went there for nothing anyway. Did it give you another lease of life, though? After the shit four years you've had?

1:19:16Weight lifted. Yeah, well, I went back to Derby for a couple of years. The first year, we didn't do so well with Phil Brown, but he had a raw deal, really. He only could sign players on loan. and he was just signing young lads on loan. They had no money to spend. And then the next year, Billy Davis come in when they give him plenty of money to spend. And we got promoted then, didn't we? So, yeah, we're in the playoffs. Yeah, because somebody asked, how did your manager put that performance in the final? Just basically on one leg. Yeah, well, as I got older, I just couldn't get back the pitch as much.

1:19:52So I used to sort of change my game a little bit. Same, get older. 28? 28, yeah. In that final? 28, yeah. But even that, it was towards the end of the game and no one near me and my knees just collapsed underneath me. So I was just trying to get off. I said, you need to get me off because we were one-year-old with a couple of minutes to go. Is that the one where Pearson scored? Yeah. Yeah, West Brom, yeah. So I was trying to say, you need to get me off, my knee's gone. And Billy Davis going, go down, go down. so I was like actually I got a yellow card on my last ever thing because I I had to clean the gears out so I could go down and stop stop wait a minute I'm like limping after him and I'm just fucking talking why could you not go down injured well because the game was still going on so he's coming down so I just fucking tripped not if your pride's at stake in the last few minutes or whatever but Billy Davis go down basically to waste a bit of time so I've gone down and then their players come up to think I'm time wasting and all that which I was but I was injured so and that was it yeah I played again did you know that that might be at that point a little bit just from the fact that there was no one there and it just gave way on me it was only when I you've been through it so many times yeah but not like that when I when I done my cruise I heard it it was like a gun to go chain direction just popped and it was like fucking hell but this one was yeah it was definitely different it was when I had the surgery basically the surgeon just said I wouldn't play football again if i were you he said your knees gone he said you've got no college and you're writing in all this so i was like fair enough so that was it i sort of phil brown actually wanted me to sign for go to hall when i was like when i was injured like a cripple at derby so the season finished and he wanted me to go to hull and do pre-season like there and i was like i'm injured and he's like well come and do it all up here and i was like i can't do that i can't just turn and put a club fucking injured.

1:21:48For real? Like a right knob? Yeah, right, for real. Right, lads. Just on crutches and that. Oh, good signing. All the best today, lads. Iron signing in your wheelchair. Cheers, lads. So I was like, I can't do that. And I was sort of half-high trying to get back playing or get back training. And I was going for like jogs on my own, getting the car to go back to my house, get out of the car and I couldn't walk. And I was like, I can't. what's the point for the sake of going somewhere injured probably breaking down again just for you know another year maybe or so that was pretty much it you're only 28 yeah yeah no now what are you hey how were you how was i yeah like right i'm just weird you know it's just strange just because everything's regimented football you've got to be there you've got to be there you've got with the you know train at this time when you go away you dinner this time match days that time So just waking up going, don't have to do it myself.

1:22:49So it was just, took me a while to get used to it. Do you know what I mean? Were you mortified knowing that you were having to retire? No. Were that the missing the football? I was half, I knew I weren't going to play until I was 35, put it that way, because I knew the state of my knees. So I didn't think I'd be that early. but now Mortify wasn't it was it was just a bit of an empty feeling you know what I mean like this is all I've ever done all I've ever known and all I've ever wanted to do kind of thing so without getting too personal either had you been sensible with your money because that's the first thing that people do at hemorrhage when they finish playing the hemorrhaging money yeah well yeah I suppose I was yeah I'm trying to think what I was never I was never I used to go away a lot you know what I mean got an oldie but I've never wanted to buy him I don't know flash cars yeah I'd have nice cars but not not like when I was when I was earning you know I'd have nice cars but you just get yourself in bother can't you whatever yeah doing whatever yeah it's easy easy to do innit do you know what I mean but it was it was a weird one with the football because it was just I remember I went to watch Steve McPhail play when I was in Leeds and he was playing at Sheffield Knight for Cardiff.

1:24:13And it was the first live game I've been to since I passed. And it was just weird. I felt sort of like, sort of envious of him or jealous of him. It was just a really strange... I was just sitting there going, I was mad at me. It was weird. And I used to always watch live games with the players in the tunnel before the game. I liked to see him line up with each other, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, it was just weird. Was that straight after? Yeah, like for a while, quite a bit after, yeah. I'm all right now, I can wait till kick-off.

1:24:44I suppose because you just can't reenact that feeling of match day and that you know people say I miss the training I miss the band I miss match day you know that that buzz you get on a match day you can't you just can't replicate in whatever you do in your life do you know what I mean because I went out of sight out of mind I just stopped watching it for early 18 months or something yeah I was a bit like the other way just wanted to watch but I wanted to just the tunnel though yeah just I just wanted to see you know it's that bit in the tunnel yeah it was weird so yeah but I've always I've always been football mad at you I love I love watching football and you got missing kids at this point uh yeah yeah two young and yeah so so it was it was a bit easier do you know what I mean so at least got something to do yeah yeah you're coming out dad yeah just Just a minute, they're just nearly out of a tunnel now.

1:25:35Yeah, yeah, in a tunnel. Getting to the good bit. Passes me crutches. You watching the game? No, I'm just watching from five to three till three o 'clock. I used to love that tunnel cam. You can't give a fuck after that. Sitting there like at two o 'clock waiting for him to come out at three. Did you find Billy Davies a bit quirky? Yeah, yeah. Were you paranoid? Yeah, paranoid as fuck about everything. He was just weird. but yeah he was but I liked him but he tried to get rid of me a few times and he accused me of speaking to other clubs and all that which I'd never done like he was saying oh you spoke to Paul Simpson at Preston and I was like I've never fucking met Paul Simpson at Preston at this point so he was like he tried to get he tried to get rid of the lads because he got given a load of money didn't he for that level at that time so he bought basically bought his whole new team in so he bought Matt Oakley in named him captain on his first day took the captaincy off Michael Johnson who was club captain on his first day.

1:26:35He tried to get rid of me, Pesh, Darren Moore, I think Jono as well, and then brought all his lot in. But we ended up staying and getting promoted. But yeah, he was weird with me. He'd play me and then just leave me out. Towards the end of the season, we played Crystal Palace away, actually. And I'd travelled, obviously, thinking I'm going to be sub or whatever. he didn't name me a sub or playing but he wanted me to warm up with the lads so he wanted me to get stripped and I was like why? he goes I want you to because you're going to be you're going to be starting next week I was like right I don't don't understand what you mean here but so I'm there warming up with the lads I'm not even fucking involved I felt like a right knob he said alright lads are going to have to play alright lads are going to go and get a taxi back on so I'll say he's in the tunnel lad when he's come back out yeah I've got I was quick out waiting for them in the tunnel when they come out.

1:27:33So then it was Leeds, the last game of the season, yeah. So we lost, we blew, we were in automatic. It was with Sunderland to go up in Birmingham, I think. And we blew it, we lost the last few games or the running. And then we played Leeds at home, last game of the season, when I ran into that ref. And he said to the lads, because he was pissed off everyone, you play well today, he said, you're going to be playing in the playoffs because we're already in the playoffs. so then I'm captain he named me captain that day I didn't even fuck I wasn't even on the bench the week before so I'm captain and then we won I did alright and then played in the two playoff finals against Southampton and then played in the final so it was strange what happened with the ref I'd always briefly spoke about it before yeah assaults won't it you what assaults come and wear assaults it's his own fault it's his own fault No, basically I'm just shooting that way.

1:28:30I've passed the ball wide and I've ran forward and he's just right in front of me and I've just smashed into him accidentally. And then I'm just going, get out of the fucking... Oh, right. And he was just in rag order on the floor, like just couldn't breathe. Bad wear? Yeah. Did he rock a rib or something? Yeah, apparently he punched a lung and all sorts of ribs and everything, so yeah. Did he get in the top pocket?

1:28:57he got him away previous to that i'd done something he was in the way again or he got in one of the passes or something probably in the way of one of my passes anyway but then that happened i was like fucking god and then he was literally just yeah he was yeah yeah he was stretched i spoiled you i spilled for ages yeah apparently so so yeah who was i can you remember the name nah i can't remember the name yeah i must just caught him wrong bless him phil crossley phil crossley yeah just remembered that it's actually written down yeah collision with phil crossley be leads yeah right yeah it's because i was looking underneath the king's way has to get a mention in the mac with lads ah yeah they're uh so that lad lummox who used to live with me he's a he's a crew ladder as his brother's ashley westward not the the centre-half, the one who was at Burnley in Villa, yeah.

1:29:48So it's his brother. He used to live with me and he's like, as barmy as it comes, like lunatic. So like nights out, he'd just be doing random stuff, just going up to Bird's with his knob out saying, do my shoes look big in this? And then they'd look down, he'd just say, if he's knob out, just stuff like that. Stupid, childish stuff, yeah. He's still, he's still... You went with a Friday in here. Yeah. That did not get me knob out. you remember it just do anything you you just like ridiculous um so that so when i lived down here would um go in the king's way on a sunday so be a super sunday night all day session but yeah the uh it's only like five minutes away from here but yeah it's um like a conveyor belt shall I put it that way for recreational stuff in the toilets nothing to do with me do you look back at it being a bit bittersweet can you see you know nobody wants to finish with an injury but the fact that it finished on that high with Derby getting promoted like you got to experience that at Wembley it happened at Wembley yeah it was obviously like I say it was exactly that it was amazing day we won we got promoted to the Premier League but I knew that I'm pretty fucked kind of thing and I was out of contract obviously knew full well I wouldn't be getting offered another contract because I signed two one year deals I signed a year and then they give me an extension I think they want to give me two years but I was like I just want to do a year at a time because I just didn't want to I just didn't fancy my body to withstand it kind of thing so that's quite horrible that yeah I'd have gone fucking give me five yeah nah when I went there I went there for like fuck all I was like I just want to play and I sort of proved to myself as well because I didn't know if I could sustain a run of games together in a row because I hadn't done it for four years kind of thing.

1:31:47But yeah, it was, that game was, like I say, it was just a strange day. I remember on the night, I've ended up going to bed early because my knee was just screaming, I couldn't walk about. And in the morning I woke up, lads hammering me voice messages and all that going, call me a boring bastard and all that. I was just in agony. but then we went out around here actually on that on the the next day when we come up on the bus and had a tour around the city and that so it was an amazing time for the club and for everyone but you know you just from thinking from a personal point of view it's like you know i'm in a bit of bother here kind of thing it's one of them you know like the leeds fans and you said you got from them and yeah it's water for doug's back but listen to this you know when you said about the crew thing you wanted to stay at crew till the end of the season before you left yeah that's the type of player that would leads would fans would want do you know what i mean it's not a case if you just come and tossed it off because you're not arsed picking up your money you've actually proven that in the past oh man it was signing your contracts at derby as well when you yeah well make the um you want to make as much money as you can of course you do but that's not why you fall in love with football and why you play you don't play and go oh when you're playing the game going oh, I'm earning this a week.

1:33:01You want to fucking win and you want to do as well as you can for yourself. Do you know what I mean? So the money was never, was never, ever an issue for me in terms of, oh, how much am I earning? What am I getting? And all that. You just try and get the best deals you can get, which is any walk of life. Do you know what I mean? And I didn't know what the waste structure was at Leeds at the time. It wasn't like, oh, who's on that money? Same as me then. it was it's a big big move for me just didn't work out hey it just didn't work out it didn't know but that's an individual in the same place when you're injured is i guarantee doing exactly the same thing you're just not used to knowing are you so you when you're injured you know you just all the lads go out to train every day and you're like see it that's me done and then you have to go and do all your stuff that you don't want to be doing.

1:33:53That's swimming. You know? I was a good swimmer by the end of the night. I was like, I fucking call it. I can't pay fucking 30 31 grand a week for doing fucking 50 lends. I'm sound with this. No bother. I'd be back to me.

1:34:11Squirting water up out of a pool. It's awesome. I had a right swimming pool there as well. Fucking hell. Yeah. I meant to ask you about Wilcox because we've heard people say he's the funniest man in football. Yeah, he's hilarious, yeah. He just used to take off everyone and just Roy Hodgson he would do. Yeah, he was quality. But all the banter with them lot was fucking relentless, like non-stop. Brutal. Yeah. Woodgate, Dubree, Wilcox, Batts, Gary Kelly. He'd just be fucking relentless. Bridgie must have been involved. Bridgie was normally the brunt of it all. Was it? Yeah, he was just getting abused by everyone, didn't he?

1:34:50the germ that's what you used to call him the germ yeah that's a bad nickname yeah nobody wants the germ like the wart straight legs he's calling the way you run straight legs but yeah they were yeah I used to just sit there and just laugh at everyone I wouldn't even can speak half the time but would it be like like we've heard like cutting up clothes and all that stuff yeah also have you had one with the physio Alan Sutton his nickname was Sausage Fingers they had big massive fat fingers he was like an old physio I'd been there for years and like Jason Wilcox would be getting a rub and he'd go take the fucking Wicked Keeper gloves off Wicked Keeper gloves off will you so one day I think I think it was Jace, Bats Robbie Fowle and Dubes I think I think them lads went to the butchers and brought about 70 quid's worth of sausages and just stuck them all over his car under his dog, his handle grips and everything, down his fucking aerial, just sausages all over his fucking car.

1:35:57And Terry Renables went mental. Terry Renables, manager, he went mental, yeah. I think so. He got really upset about it, but yeah, sausages. Oh, come on here. Yeah, sausage fingers. But it was the summertime, so you know there's wasps and flies everywhere. It literally just fucking Wolves bangers all over all over the car Wolves bangers if you ever want to do that to my car that's sound I'll put them in a bag and I'll take a walk I'll leave a George Foreman next to her so he'll just chuck them off barbecue sausage fingers sausage fingers yeah cheers top man mate thank you very much thank you enjoyed that too boring for you

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