UP493 What's Sport Selling? Ridgeon on Ozempic, Ohanian and Athletic Ventures

0:00Hello, Richard Gillis here. Welcome to Unofficial Partner. Thanks for finding us. This is episode three of a four-part series we've called What's Sports Selling that we've created in partnership with Red Torch, the research and creative agency that's been at the heart of Olympic sport for over 20 years. It's a conversation with John Ridgeon, the Chief Executive of World Athletics, and builds on the first episode with guests Johnny Murch from Red Torch, Celine Del Jennings of Decathlon and Emma Mason Zwiebler of the World Federation of Sporting Goods Industry where we discussed the bridge between the elite professional performance side of the sports industry and the participation side and the absence of a coherent sports lobby into governments.

0:40The second episode in the series was with Gary Raucher, Global Head of Marketing and Executive Board Member at ASICS, the fourth largest athletic footwear brand in the world with a share of the running market that sits above Nike and Adidas. So the missing bit of the jigsaw is a major international sports governing body. So with that as the context we invited John Ridgen for a conversation who is the chief executive of World Athletics, the global governing body for track and field. Ridgen was born in Bury St Edmonds in Suffolk in 1967 and he was a silver medalist at the 1987 world athletic championships in rome in the 110 meters hurdles represented great britain at the 88 soul olympics and the 96 atlanta olympics personal best of 13.29 seconds it's a british record following his athletic career he went into the agency world fast track sports marketing from 1998 to 2012 he's been a broadcaster for television and be sky b he's director of the 2018 European Sports Championships and has been in his present role since December 2018.

1:50Took up the role in March 2019 working alongside President Sebastian Coe to modernize and grow athletics globally. It's an interesting time in the environment for track and field globally. We've got Grand Slam Track, the new event business created by Michael Johnson backed by hedge fund manager Bill Ackman and Athlos which is Alexis Ohanian the Reddit co-founder's new women's only track meet which was launched in September last year so we talked about what that meant for the global governing body.

2:25John Ridgeon:So some people think we should be terribly threatened by that it couldn't be further from the truth we absolutely embrace it anything that brings new opportunity for athletes new money into our sport new opportunity for fans is really good news so for example you know we work closely with with athlas in terms of date allocation and i meant to meet last year i remember sending to alexis alhanian a list of these are the things that we thought were great about the event these are the things that perhaps you should develop now whether that was taken on board i don't know did he respond yeah no i only spoke to him the other day we have a very positive relationship this episode is brought to you by red torch a global research and creative agency dedicated to making sport more relevant red torch helps sports rights holders and brands punch above their weight born in the olympic movement they know how to deliver they know how to deliver it they know how to deliver when the stakes are high and the spotlight's on Trusted and retained by some of the world's biggest sports organisations, Red Torch brings you the best people, fresh ideas and the flexibility you'd expect from a true independent specialist agency.

3:36If you want to grow your audience, create impact and turn cultural insight into a winning edge, visit redtorch.sport to find out more.

3:51one way into this is your inbox your job because there's loads of people listening and lots of people will think they know what your job is what you should be doing what you are doing you'll be very familiar with all of that yeah i just thought it'd be nice just to start off with what's the job what do you do all day type question just give us an idea just sense of priorities and and we can get you know we'll obviously get into a bit of detail so what do you think what keeps you up at night and what what makes you happy yeah so this is a wonderful

4:23John Ridgeon:challenging diverse job being CEO of World Athletics and look if I try to boil down what World Athletics is here for I would argue it's three things I'd argue that it's to do the governance part of the sport so you know set the rules make sure it's you know the integrity of The sport is maintained, all of that. And then secondly, it's to stage those hopefully kind of pinnacle events like the World Championships later this year in Tokyo that has an audience of one billion people. So that's all good. And then the third bit, which is actually the most broad, most challenging and interesting in many ways, is just to grow the sport.

5:00John Ridgeon:And we grow the sport through our own activities. We grow the sport through working with our member federations and we grow the sport through partnerships with others. So I think it's those three areas, really. And my day is taken up by doing a range of meetings. So what have I done today? This morning, my first meeting was around technology and trying to use technology to enhance the way we broadcast athletics and tell stories around particularly the road races, you know, performances there. And then I went from that meeting to a meeting with the Tokyo Organising Committee for our World Championships later this year, where we were just thrashing through all the kind of issues inevitably that still exist two or three months out before the World Championships.

5:45John Ridgeon:And my next meeting is you. So and if I look at the rest of the day, it really, you know, why my job is so interesting. It does really flip between from governance and, you know, setting shoe tech rules and things like that in one moment. And then the next moment is speaking to Netflix, trying to commission and co-produce doco series that hopefully reach new audiences in terms of athletics. So, you know, it is a fascinating job. And I've got to say, I've never felt such a strong sense of mission in any job I've done over the years. And I've been very lucky. I've done some really interesting jobs.

6:19John Ridgeon:And, you know, I do really wake up every morning, you know, really up for the challenge trying to grow athletics. So I'm very lucky. It's interesting. When I asked Jack Buckner the same question, he said, if I let it, the governance bit will take over every day, all day, every day. He said, it's so important. It's so urgent. There's so many. It's so complex. And it's the bit that no one else wants to do. So when people talk on business podcasts about what they would do with athletics, it all gravitates, you know, what private equity wants, what does the money want? It all into the events business, the media rights, the commercialization, the format and the product.

6:59All of that stuff is what the conversation is. Yeah. And that's the nature of this podcast. But the governance bit is just at the center of that. And no one else wants to do that. No one else can do that.

7:10John Ridgeon:No, that's for sure. That's why I know there'll always be an international federation because no one is ever banging down my door saying, John, we want to take over the government. I get that. But it's really important. But Jack is right that you have to be really disciplined. And you've got to make sure that, you know, I've talked about the three elements that make up, I think, what World of Athletics does. And I'm really disciplined with myself to make sure you give equal amounts of time and energy into all those areas because they're all really important. and equally important. And I think I'm helped by the fact that my background for the last 25, 30 years has been agency side.

7:47John Ridgeon:So, you know, I'm from the commercial side of the sport. So, you know, actually, the governance side, I've actually had to learn. It's never been, you know, top of my inbox, but it's important now. And I do obviously invest time in it. But I also, you know, we're an organisation of, you know, just short of 100 people here. So, you know, I have people that wake up every day and worry about governance. So, you know, I work with a great team. Obviously, I work with a really passionate and committed president in SEBCO as well, whose CV is pretty good on all this. So, you know, there's a team of us who work on this.

8:21John Ridgeon:And yes, I put time into it, but I've got other people who are investing all their time in governance. And also, and I can take no credit for this because it happened long before I arrived kind of six years ago. But, you know, we invest over 10, 12 percent of our income every year into the athletics integrity unit as well, which is a really important part of our governance and keeping our sport, you know, good shape. So, you know, we have. Yes, we fund it, but it's independently run and they do a good job in terms of making sure those sort of areas well maintained. It's interesting that, you know, because obviously your agency background and you say there that you've never had a stronger sense of mission.

8:57i think i understand what you mean there i'm just trying to make that the bridge because actually being at in we call it in-house or at the governing body level there is something different going on is that true is it's it's broader but it's also deeper in terms of you know i've worked at agencies lots of people listening will be working at agencies and there is a sense there that actually maybe there's something slightly missing from that work from that just and this is a life job question not a necessarily yeah yeah look i have huge respect for what agencies

9:28John Ridgeon:do and agencies do a lot of things better than international governing bodies i absolutely get that which is why we try to do things often in partnership we don't have to all do it in-house but i think and i've been you know i've been lucky enough to be part of a couple of agencies over the years that we built and were acquired and you know that that whole process was was hugely interesting challenging and ultimately rewarding but what i think um what i think the governing body gives and why it's this job is is is i find so interesting and it's such a kind of mission job is is we see the absolutely full picture and if you know my uh my early days were spent as an international athlete and long time ago now it was the 1980s and 1990s i i did that but clearly you That's in my DNA.

10:16John Ridgeon:And what this job allows me to do, working in this organisation with some great committed colleagues, is that hopefully, if you want to make an impact on your sport and leave it in a better place than you found it, this is the kind of central place to be. Now, we can't do it all on our own. We don't try and do it all on our own. But it does give you that opportunity to really make fundamental change. Because I think by being part of the International Federation, it's easier to make change than it is if you're part of an agency that probably has a broader or actually more focused. Just, you know, the agencies can stage great events or great campaigns or are hugely good at innovation.

10:55John Ridgeon:But ultimately, you know, setting the rules of the game, creating the big events and the way they're consumed is something that we can do. And that's a great honour and it's exciting to be involved. It's a great responsibility as well. And I'm really aware of that. There's a because we're in an interesting time because there's a sort of big governing body model and then there's a sort of skinny governing body model. And that some sports are doing it one way. Some sports are doing it in other ways. And I wonder how you define it. I mean, in terms of your just your sense of what the role of institutions are.

11:33John Ridgeon:Yeah. So I think, again, going back on my kind of agency background, we have grown over the last six years since I've been here. It would be wrong of me to say we haven't grown, but I do try to keep that growth to a minimum because I kind of believe fundamentally in the skinny approach because I do believe in, you know, so for example, we haven't got a big in-house sales team. We outsource that. We haven't got a big in-house broadcast team. We outsource that. Albeit we don't do it in a passive way. We very much manage those relationships and are right in the middle of those relationships. But, you know, I'm not looking to create a model of where we employ hundreds of people here.

12:10John Ridgeon:You know, I want to keep it roughly to where we are now. We keep expenditure, you know, tightly controlled. And it's about employing the best people around the world to work with us, deliver the best possible results. So I think that's the model. That's the model that we're trying to follow. But we're lucky that probably unlike quite a lot of Olympic sports, we are growing. You know, our resources are growing. Our income is growing. So it does allow us to do more things, you know, which is exciting. So I look forward with great optimism for the next few years, where, as you know, I know the challenges out there and I know some sports are, you know, managing real challenges and declining the resources that they're working in.

12:50John Ridgeon:Now, we're managing lots of challenges, don't get me wrong, but at least we're doing that with a growing resource. And what is the source of that growth, John? Yeah, so I know the numbers well for the last six years because I've been CEO for the last six years. So when I first arrived six years ago, we were about a$50 million a year income organisation. We're now just short of$70 million a year income organisation. We're slightly complicated. Our income is slightly lumpy. So you have to look at our income in a four year cycle. But that's roughly where we are. And we're not that different to anyone else from the point of view.

13:25John Ridgeon:Where does our income come from? It's sponsorship, it's broadcast income, it's hosting fees. And also we get an IOC share of the broadcast dividend as well. So they're the main four sources. We are opening up new sources of income, but they're inevitably slower to grow. So I think we look like probably most sporting organisations. And what's good is that we're attracting more sponsors. For example, Honda and Sony and the likes of one or two big global brands have come on board in the last year or two. major cities around the world are keen to host our world championships than ever before. So, you know, there's some good fundamentals there.

14:03John Ridgeon:But I am aware the income, the model is changing over time. But the good news that we have is we actually, most of our significant income streams are locked into the end of the decade. So at least we have five years to be able to actually analyze the situation, which we're doing now, saying, look, what's the world going to look like in 2030? it's probably going to require an evolved model but we've at least got time to do that because we've got predictable safe income between now and the end of the decade and just give me an idea of the proportions then so how much is each block you've listed those four yeah sources just give me yeah um so so so the two biggest chunks of income that are roughly 50 50 would be sponsorship and broadcast.

14:49John Ridgeon:Hosting fees are, you know, are a significant amount as well, probably 20%. And then we have the IOC, we get$40 million from the IOC every four years as a share of our Olympic broadcast revenues. And as the number one Olympic sport, I would argue we more than deserve that. And that comes to what does that come to about 14%, 15 % of our income. So again, I think we're I think we're fairly typical. Sponsorship and broadcast revenues at the moment make up the majority of our income within third position hosting fees and the IOC income as well. So they're the four main sources with, for example, digital income still quite small, but at least growing on an annual basis.

15:32and the your view on the sort of existential question the bundle question about tv rights and that place this is not obviously unique to athletics by any means it's every sport and every governing body every league is looking at this question and asking what happens and you know as you say you're you've got five years to sort out an answer or you know but it's it's been a story that's been building for a long time and i wonder what your answer to is what you know what happens how much of the the money is coming from tv i mean you've got obviously via tv via the ioc

16:07John Ridgeon:but also your own television yeah no you know probably 30 of our revenues i haven't got the spreadsheet in front of me but it's a reasonable chunk of our revenues are from are from broadcast and actually broadcast is important as well because we're traditionally a free-to-air sport as well so it's not just the income from broadcast it's the exposure we get from broadcast as well which is why one of the reasons why we'll have a billion eyeballs watching our world championships in Tokyo later this year because we are on the big free-to-air broadcasts around which is important so so look if I'm being really honest I don't know what it's going to look like in 2030 I know we're doing the work now and I know we're analyzing that as everyone else is and actually interestingly when I talk to colleagues in other sports and in agency world as well I don't necessarily get the answer from any of them either so I think we're all looking as I said I take and And I don't say this in a way where we're not focused on it right now.

17:02John Ridgeon:But, you know, I do take comfort from the point of view that we have a five year runway here. So we can not only do our own work, we can look at the successes and mistakes that others make as well in terms of where we land. But I still think even in 2030, if you've got a good product, you know, live sport, I would argue, is more powerful than ever. So I actually still think the model will have a significant place for broadcast, probably still free to air broadcast. And I still think there'll be a significant chunk of our income that will come from from broadcast revenues because, you know, we believe we believe in the product.

17:41John Ridgeon:We think the fundamentals are really strong. You know, we're the number one Olympic sport and we're the most participated sport in the world. more people run than do any other sport in the world and um yeah i i think our best days are ahead rather than behind us okay i that's quite a statement though isn't it i mean given the backdrop of athletics and the you know and people go to golden eras and all of this stuff and the assumption is that actually the future isn't the best the best days there is a sort of okay how do we piece our way through you've got a generation of people who aren't watching television and then you know the idea that uh just the consumption habits have shifted and that hits the casual fan probably more than anything they've migrated you know away from television onto tiktok or youtube or whatever it's it's interesting you say that yeah and of course you would say it the best days are ahead but i'm trying to get to a picture of how that works and whether or not it's actually so it's the government there's a world athletics question you've got other people circling i've just come from the open everyone's talking about live golf new models coming in disruption the live golf coming for every sport yeah what does that look like from your point of view in terms of when you start to run your defensive aspects because there are people and say right you're right i agree with john he's he's bullish on the product and the sport and people like athletics the various bits of it but the product isn't resonating so let's yeah big question interesting question um and so we start with the fundamentals being strong and that's important i mean ultimately you know we have a sport that people do want to watch it's a totally global sport one of the most global sports out there you know you've just got to look at remember our sport is very diverse as well you just got to look at running and you know you've just got to look at some of the recent trends which you know i can't tell you necessarily how they've been created but it is highly fashionable in your late teens and 20s to go running now and join running clubs and you know all those things is that is that linked to world athletics though is that that's a part run phenomena isn't it or no absolutely no i'm not saying i'm not saying this is all world athletics generated at all okay but i'm just saying the fundamentals are strong and if the fundamentals are strong you should be to build on that so if you talk about so for example Athletics in the 1980s was very simple, wasn't it?

20:03John Ridgeon:Everyone watched it on terrestrial television and there were very few channels to choose from. Easy, right? Clearly, we live in a very different world now. Whereas free-to-air television is still really important to us. We're working really hard at making sure we package athletics in a way that whatever your age, whatever the way you consume sport and entertainment, that athletics is there for you. And I'll give you a couple of examples. OK, so, you know, we hit this week five million followers on TikTok. OK, now I don't spend a lot of time on TikTok, but many people do. So, you know, we've got some 14 million followers now on our social media channels.

20:41John Ridgeon:You know, so clearly that is reaching some people. We're also making sure that we create new athletics product that reaches new people in different environments. So, you know, we've worked with Netflix in terms of co-producing a series called Sprint over the last couple of years, which is all about our leading global sprinters. There's no doubt about it that good business and it reached new audiences. That's another way we've hopefully reached people that might not sit down like I do and watch a two hour athletics meet on television because I get that's not for everyone. But beyond that as well, we're making sure that our product is evolved to reach new people as well.

21:19John Ridgeon:And I'll just give you two examples of that. Athletics really comes to life on a global scale with mass audiences in hundreds of millions of viewers when it has a global championships. So we looked at that and we go, you know, at the four year cycle you have an Olympic Games, you have a couple of world championships. But for example, next year in 2026, there was no global championship. That's like golf or tennis saying, you know, we're going to have a year without a major. We cannot afford to do that. So we've created a new global championship called the World Athletics Ultimate Championships that stage for the first time next year.

21:52John Ridgeon:It's a three day kind of shortened version, intense world championship event. And that is going to be, again, a new product, faster paced, designed for a younger audience that will hopefully be our big global moment of next year. Another example is, you know, we're trying to take athletics to new environments. So there's a whole bunch of people that go to gyms, that jump on a treadmill, that run, that probably never think of themselves as athletes. And I understand that. So we've created with a fantastic global tech partner, a new World Athletics virtual running championships and program that's all about going to your local gym and being part of the World Athletics community, but just going on your treadmill and running a 5K.

22:35John Ridgeon:So some of these will work. Some of them won't work. I completely accept that. But I hope it gives you an idea that we are trying across the piece to make sure we're not just sitting back and going, we're the number one Olympic sport, all good. We are pushing the boundaries in lots of different directions. Try to make sure that we can do everything we can to make sure we're future-proof. because we live in a world that's changing quicker than ever before. And that obviously throws up some wonderful opportunities. But for an organization like us, it throws up some threats as well. It's interesting, isn't it, in terms of where you step in and where you don't.

23:10It's the old sort of government question about where it's welcome, where it's helpful, and where it's not. And are you investing money or are you bringing, in terms of like the tech thing, let's just go that direction because i could sort of see there's the whole backing winners question about where government you know what government and i'm governing bodies as a proxy for government obviously so where and what role you play there is it a badging thing i mean i don't mean that in a derogatory term so you know you're bringing world athletics credibility to a tech thing and which one you have to then go for it you know which one you're going to select to go with Are you investing money in that?

23:51Is there a sort of shared risk element to it? Just talk me through how that works.

23:54John Ridgeon:Yeah, so we do both. So we do. So with the virtual running championships, that's going to be a co-creation with a tech business where we're both going to invest money and take risk. In other examples, we are more passive, but we're more supportive. And we've always had, or we tried to have a view that we don't need to own everything. As long as, you know, if you come up with a concept that's good for athletics and grows athletics, we'll support you. Why wouldn't we? Because ultimately, our job is to grow athletics. So, for example, there's been a couple of new entrants in terms of event series into the market over the last couple of years, Grand Slam Track and Athlos.

24:30John Ridgeon:OK, so some people think we should be terribly threatened by that. It couldn't be further from the truth. We absolutely embrace it. Anything that brings new opportunity for athletes, new money into our sport, new opportunity for fans is really good news. So, for example, you know, we work closely with Athlos in terms of date allocation. I mentioned the meet last year. I remember sending to Alexei Alhanian a list of these are the things that we thought were great about the event. These are the things that perhaps you should develop. Now, whether that was taken on board, I don't know. Did he respond?

25:02John Ridgeon:Yeah, no. I only spoke to him the other day. We have a very positive relationship. With Grand Slam Track, for example, we allocated really high world ranking points to try and help him attract his athletes, obviously in addition to the prize money and everything. so those two examples is we're not investing any money but we're trying to do our bit in terms of what we can provide as world athletics so you know i guess that the summary is is we do both yeah yeah so just thinking that through for a moment then if i'm on their side and i don't know either of those gentlemen they're obviously very famous and prominent i don't need me to argue their case but i'm thinking okay your ultimate event next year is that crowding me out you're creating something else that yeah they could fill that space with presumably that's that would be my take on what you've done yeah i i see it complete opposite actually because what we've done again looking at this kind of the innovation we've looked at you know some of them are sort of macro stuff some of it's a micro level but one of the innovations is is a very simple one is we've looked at the calendar and tried to make more sense of it so we have from this year onwards we have pegged our world championships or world athletics ultimate championships anyway the big global championship to mid-september every year and the reason we've done that is because that provides the kind of culmination pinnacle event that everything else can build up to so if you look at grand slam track if you look at diamond league or whatever that then provides the week in week out narrative and journey for the fans and the athletes they build towards the global championship at the end so i think we're working or we're certainly trying to work well with everyone to make sense of it and i i would also say that you know while all the other events are really important to our sport they generate much much smaller audiences ultimately for global championships the only time athletics at the moment reaches audiences of hundreds of millions is at the olympic games and world championships now over time i hope that the other products can can you know build beyond millions into tens of millions but but that's the reality um so i think both are important i don't think we're competing in any way i think we're complementing each other and certainly that's the view i have and um that's the view i'm going to continue to have because i think it's it's a much healthier view to have um and where does diamond league fit into this i remember having a conversation when it launched and it was a sort of i understood it again you get there sort of intellectually i'll get and i was thinking yeah that's a really nice idea i don't know i don't follow athletics closely enough to say whether it's been a successful failure but yeah so diamond league yeah so i actually i was part of the creation of diamond league back in 2010 so we're in our 16th year now so i mean so you know it's certainly proved to be sustainable and it's proven the test of time the idea of the diamond league was at the time we just had a whole group of standalone meets that kind of did their own thing we tried to bring them together that leading 15 odd meets in the world to give it some structure, give the season some structure again across the year.

28:05John Ridgeon:So, you know, is it perfect? No, it's not. But has it worked? Yes, it has. It's certainly the premium series of one day meetings in the world that give athletes a great chance to compete and prepare for the major championships and then the living. It gives our fans a great chance to see, you know, regular content. And I'll be in London this weekend for the London Diamond League and it's going to be a sellout crowd, going to be going to be a fabulous event so they're very very good events the idea when they were they were initially created was that they they would always bring the world's very top athletes into big head-to-head competitions now the reality is that some athletes compete more or less than others and you know so if i'm being truthful across the diamond league it's a really good product but can it be better yes and we're working we've got meetings this sunday we're going to review Darkman League and see how we can make it better for the future because inevitably some meets have bigger budget than others and you know across the season you get stronger and weaker meets but overall it's by a significant margin the most powerful and most popular series of one-day meetings and it contributes an awful lot to the sport and I think its future you know is strong and I think it's a really important function and competition platform for our sport but but we're always pushing to make it to make it even better um so this is a uk question obviously i'm sitting in the uk and you know the athletic ventures i think is a really interesting sort of uh venture and i can see again there's a sort of a combination there at a local level of what you're articulating at global i'm just wondering how first of all what you what how you view that because one of the questions about uk athletics was how did it lose money on a you know the the um diamond league event it sold out and and that's that sort of event management expertise and these things tend to go in cycles i mean i remember you at fast track you did all the uk athletics work and then they took it in-house and now it's sort of quasi gone out again but i wonder what your view on that because obviously you must you must look at that and and with a hint of irony i imagine saying right okay well that was i can see a sort of circularity there what do you just and there's a question there about obviously world athletics much broader brief but just let's give me your sense of what's happening there because i think it's a really interesting story it's and i agree with you i'm very proud of the fact that when i was at fast track and we worked with uke athletics back in the in the 1990s and early 2000s that we worked together to create a commercial program and an events program that made uke athletics at the time the richest athletics governing body in the world So, you know, it certainly worked back there.

30:42John Ridgeon:And I actually think a combination of governing body, you know, two world class commercial bodies, great run company, London Marathon. I mean, fabulous. I think it's the future. I think it's the way forward. And I think gone are the days where we can rely. Athletics is a sport that's relied very much over the years on big public subsidy. And thank you to all the governments that have been willing to build stadium and fund championships, performance programs and all the rest of it. And it still remains important. But clearly, athletics needs to, probably all Olympic sports needs to become a little more self-sufficient.