UP502 What Just Happened: The IOC and Trump's America; PayPal and CEO branded content; UEFA's global decision

20:17But you also have to understand what's going on in California. And also worth saying that Casey Wasserman, Dave, the L.A.

20:24James Emmett:28 president is not unpolitical himself. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think if we think about Kirsty Coventry, like Gianni Infantino, like any other leader of a global sports organization that is to some extent reliant on the US, you know will be hosting major events there needs the the commercial political clout needs the security services to be on board etc etc you absolutely now have to have a very dedicated and specific trump strategy yeah and you also have to have trump tactics by the way because if you i don't know if you saw he turned up at the final of the uh the us open um as a guest of rolex so not invited by the USTA, but it caused the whole final to be delayed by the best part of 45 minutes, thousands of people outside because there was additional security.

21:21So you're constantly having to be on the fly because nobody is really in a position to ask him not to turn up.

21:29Richard:Yeah, I didn't realise the Rolex connection. That's interesting. Yeah, he was in the Rolex box as a guest. And that's how the invitation came about, which the USTA obviously had to then accommodate with all the security measures. But if you think, you know, Dana White is as very much hitched his wagon to Trump and is planning to stage a UFC night in the grounds of the White House next year. So this is happening. We've seen what Infantino does every opportunity he gets. He's in the Oval Office and he has decided that that is the best way to smooth the path of not just the World Cup next year, but obviously the Club World Cup and sort of make that work in as best way as possible.

22:16And having the Trump endorsement he has presumably calculated can help that.

22:23Richard:I think so on that, Dave, I think it's a really good point. And I think it does also because sometimes we conflate FIFA and the IOC as sort of big sport. And they are, you know, when you talk to sponsors, there's a sort of either or question or, you know, they both do similar jobs. Technically, there is a very, I think, a difference. And it's been, it's interesting to see Infantino embracing Trump, although, you know, you obviously invited Putin and Qatar as well. So it's a very, he would call it sort of apolitical, focused on just getting the job done, he would say. But I do think there is a difference at a values level between the IOC and FIFA.

23:06Richard:And I think this is quite more dangerous territory for the IOC than it is for FIFA. Yeah, I agree. And also on a practical level, the IOC cannot have damaged relations with the US in any way because there's LA 28. But in 2034, Salt Lake City is hosting the Winter Olympics. So they've got another one coming around the corner and they need different sizes of events, of course. But an interesting one to your climate point as well. Just on Kirsty Coventry this week, she's been assembling her top team. So Jan Patterson has come in as her chief of staff, formerly of the British Olympic Association. More recently, she's been running NEOM's sport activities in Saudi Arabia.

23:55So that's an interesting hire. James Pearce, very good operator. I like James. I think he's really good. And he's come in to run her communications, ex-BBC man. who has worked at the highest levels. And he will be very much thinking about, okay, how to manage the inevitable situation of Kirstie Coventry in the Oval Office when Trump is answering questions about whatever the news story of the day is to the press pack. I think the climate point is, and the other point to say on the working groups, by the way, just as a sort of, again, understanding some of the motivations there. I think you talked well about the topics and the subjects.

24:38I think the reasons those are being set up is interesting as well. You've got to remember that Kirsty Coventry was elected at the first vote, and only by one vote she made the bar to win in the first round by one vote. That means she doesn't necessarily have the full support of a big majority of the IOC membership, in theory. and one of the criticisms of Thomas Bach was that he was a president who ran things like a like a chief executive like an all-powerful chief executive took all the decision-making power away from the IOC members so actually I think this is probably a move to give the IOC as many IOC members as possible a really active voice in coming up with future decisions future policy future focus i would add to the climate point in terms of the ioc being probably the only organization as you made the point in your newsletter yesterday that can probably have this longer term view i'd throw ai into that as well and i think i think from a from a global sport point of view it's the only organization that can be should be setting up the framework the parameters for what sport does how sport approaches both those things over the next you know 15 30 years let alone next two to three years part of a conversation we had actually i i

26:02Richard:mean i one of the things that the ai question we're we aren't going to that we'll come back to an ai question because i think it whether it fits into a sponsorship frame is a really fascinating question because that's what lots of people are trying to do and it might not work anyway who's who wants next let's go with should i i'm gonna this is up this is up being a conference where, you know, any questions, and then you're like, right, I'm going to have to pick someone to go with. Right, I'm just going to look at the subject matter, and I quite fancy a little bit of, oh, let's talk about the PayPal thing.

26:37James Emmett:It actually runs on nicely from Kirsty Grantree setting her stall out. So this isn't really a one-off story that I bring. It's a concatenation of separate events. Wow, what a lovely word that is. that together suggested something. So first of all, around about a month ago, PayPal, the payments tech firm, put out a job posting on LinkedIn that got a lot of traction with people going, what's just happened? Because the job was head of CEO content is the title of the job. And the salary, I guess, because it's an American role in San Francisco, was up to$290 ,000 a year. So it was a range, but that was the top end.

27:36James Emmett:And sparked a lot of discussion about CEO comms in general in this day and age. So there's that combined with a couple of things that happened pretty much immediately after we recorded this podcast last week. So we talked about David Dave Hopkinson, the CEO job at Newcastle. As we were talking, he must have been watching the rushes from the very well produced video the Newcastle team were were assembling of him, of his first day, his introduction video as Newcastle CEO in which he sets his stall out and does a nice walk around the ground. And, oh my God, isn't it great? I've dreamed about this sort of thing.

28:26James Emmett:Anyway, it's a very beautifully produced film. And then a few days after that, Vinay Venkatesham, the CEO, the new-ish CEO of Tottenham, put out his own filmed interview on Tottenham's YouTube channel, in which he... So it's not quite as well produced as the Newcastle film, but it is a masterclass in leader outward communication in the wake of a sort of organisational rupture. Daniel Levy obviously announced his resignation as executive chairman of Spurs after 25 years in the role. And Consternation, Press, Tittle Tattle, is the club being sold? What happens next? Levy's legacy, all of that washed away, calmed or quelled by a nine minute video put out on Spurs' YouTube channel in which Vinay Venkatesham spells out what the club's unified vision is, reassures over the leadership structure in place, and calmly, authoritatively declares the club isn't for sale, the Lewis family are actively in control.

30:01James Emmett:And actually, here's some new information. these members of the Lewis family are now actively involved. I just thought those sort of three things in combination signal, well, first of all, I thought the two club videos were actually excellently done. And, you know, we, us three, sometimes sit on the journalistic side of things, are so naturally inclined to look at a piece of club communication cynically and feel like they will not have, they obviously will not have covered all the ground that you might want to if you were a journalist asking the questions. There's clearly no attempt at a gotcha moment for Vinay or for Dave.

30:45James Emmett:But I thought they were really well produced and they answered a lot of questions and clubs in this climate where PayPal are hiring for a head of CEO content, content, maybe football clubs will start thinking that more communication in a controlled manner is better than less communication. And club comms people will start thinking that a day in which nothing happens isn't necessarily as good as it once was. So I think maybe it's signaling we're moving into a new era of football CEO comms.

31:21Richard:Yeah, okay. I find this really interesting. So So going back to the PayPal thing, I think there's a difference between, I agree with you in terms of the way in which the CEO is being framed and, you know, the Newcastle, the club thing, the Spurs thing. All of that makes complete sense. And I think it then it just is another area in which they can communicate. So just more communication, greater communication leads to just, you know, filling the space and that could be cut up and whatever. And you get it. And again, that machinery is working to fill our feeds. And the more you fill it with Spurs stuff, whether it's the CEO talking, whether it's a kit launch, whether it's a sort of local community thing, all of that just talks to building fandoms at the top, you know, loading the top of the funnel.

32:10And that's, that's, we get what's going on there.

32:13Richard:And I agree with you. It's interesting. The one thing I did think about, there was two things I thought, well, there's a job for James Emmett, 200 grand for, you could do that in your sleep, head of CEO content.

32:23James Emmett:And 290 grand. Yeah.

32:25Richard:Okay. Whatever. Is it? No. Okay. 290 grand. Again, job for James. There's a, the other bit was the obvious thing to point out is that if you advertise for a job like that, then everything you then do as CEO is rendered inauthentic because the person who is the head of CEO content is obviously the one doing it. I get it. You put corporate meets creator type coming together. You're getting a superstar CEO. People relate to people rather than corporations. All of these big trends are pointing towards this job being useful or interesting or you know valuable but there is an inherent contradiction there because i know you're not doing it now now whether or not they would argue it's just a it's more of a technical job rather than a content job but it's got content in the title ceo content dave another one in the in the you know surely in the market for a ceo content advisor i can see in fact i can see you to setting up a little little business on the side sports sports ceo content surely maybe maybe it's 145 grand each if we just split that yeah that is an interesting way to think about it isn't it yes i hadn't quite done the math you do that in your sleep day a week steven bartlett did something uh similar and a few months ago where he was hiring um well his company the way they did it the way they flagged it uh publicly on the on the job sites was um personal publicist to high profile founder they didn't actually name him yeah but it sort of relates back to what we what we talked about last week in terms of the uh the public nature now and i think you said richard the you know these ceos are talked about down the pub and for all the reasons we talked about last week and they are high profile figures and you know in in our world as we are programming events and and programming things like leaders week it is it has definitely become more challenging to create the right environment for premier league ceos to come and speak in a public forum where media will be present where there's the possibility of receiving questions from audiences.

34:53And there is a, there's a, you know, for understandable reasons, there is a, you know, a bit of a ring of steel sometimes around them in terms of communications, people and people within the club who are looking to, I suppose, protect, are looking sometimes potentially a little bit defensive on the defensive there's probably lots of reasons for that there are lots of controversial topics swirling around the the football world now you know everything from the financial regulations to some of the political stuff that we'll come on to talk about where every anything that resembles an opinion will be turned into a thousand headlines and millions of words of commentary And that is a tricky environment in which to work.

35:46In terms of looking at the sports industry, if you think about CEOs, founders who really have put themselves front and center, I think you have to look outside football primarily. and it's interesting next week the uh the much uh anticipated um uh netflix series about matchroom and but effectively about barry and eddie hearn comes out and they would obviously be the two probably prime examples of because of the nature of that world the world they're operating in the boxing space where it has for decades been about promotion and getting you know making headlines and making a song and dance to sell fights.

36:26But they have definitely created, you know, personalities around themselves that they are quite happy to project. And I guess, yeah, to my... And, you know, there's not a day goes by when Eddie Hearn is not sitting doing, you know, an interview for a boxing YouTube channel. Yeah, yeah. Or playing golf or making some statement.

36:47Richard:But I would say, and just to both Barry and Eddie Hearn, And they may well have someone who has that, you know, they've got a comms guy, a personal comms guy or whatever. They feel like the authentic real thing, you know, love them, hate them, whatever. But this is them talking. There's no sort of filter. Barry Hearn's personal brand has been a sort of feature of the sports business and, you know, culture more generally for 40 years, you know. And I don't think it's manufactured. It might be amplified slightly for the camera, but it's not something that you've got a lot of natural talent there to deal with the media.

37:24Richard:And that's that's great. It's when you've got a really boring bloke in charge and you then have to then create something. It's an essential part of the skill set, right? It's non-negotiable. You can't be that and get to the highest levels, can you?

37:40James Emmett:Well, that's debatable, Dave, I think.

37:42Richard:Well, the other bit is the sort of flight risk question. I mean, I always think with this, the more you promote the CEO, the more, you know, the risk is that you're putting your company brand in the hands of an individual who will then bugger off for a higher paid job somewhere else.

37:57James Emmett:Back them or sack them, Rich. You know, you can't have a CEO and then temper your support for them. On the authenticity thing, though, Rich, I don't necessarily disagree with you, but it's the reason that, you know, marketing agency folks yammer on about authenticity and have done for years.

38:16Richard:Whilst being paid to be inauthentic.

38:18James Emmett:Exactly. Well, the context in which they're talking about authenticity is usually relating to some kind of brand campaign where you might have an athlete spokesperson matched with a sponsor brand doing work on a particular channel. And when they're talking about authenticity, they might not articulate it, but they're talking about an authentic space between those three things, which doesn't really exist. It's like taking a bit of the authentic self and communication style of the athlete, also what the brand and the brand stands for and the brand values. And then the channel that you're putting out the work on, it's a new inauthentic space.

39:02James Emmett:It's not authentic to any of them. It's a bit of something new. And that's probably what the head of CEO content will be aiming for. It's an authentic and regularly cadenced sort of style of communication that will absolutely be in the CEO's voice, but also be true to PayPal's strategy, brand values, communication style, and also show up authentically in whatever channel or platform. Do you think we'll ever get to the stage where your average football club CEO, your high-level football club CEO, your Vinay Venkatesham, becomes almost a sponsorship category in their own right? If they are increasingly on a trajectory to becoming public...

39:51James Emmett:Are you asking whether Vinay Venkatesham will become a sponsorship category? I'm asking whether there might be a world somewhere in the future where Tottenham Hotspur might sell an official formal wear partner of the executive team or something like that.

40:07Richard:That's the future. I can absolutely see that. CEO's watch. Back to Trump in the Rolex box. It all works, doesn't it? Right. David Cushman. Right. What just happened? What just happened? Well, not as much as some people had suspected, That's not a good start, Dave. No, it's not. No, it's not. But it's a big story that's bubbling away. And I think it's going to be the talk of leaders. So UEFA's executive committee yesterday, Thursday, had a meeting and essentially deferred a decision on whether to vote through proposals that have been made by La Liga and Syria to stage competitive league games abroad.

40:58So we're talking here about two separate proposals. La Liga wants to host a Villarreal versus Barcelona game in December in Miami at Hard Rock Stadium. So there's Stephen Ross, the Miami Dolphins, Miami Grand Prix, the tennis, relevant, obviously involved there. And then Syria, by all accounts, have an agreement pretty much ready to go to stage a game in Perth, Australia in February, which would be an AC Milan versus Como game. And in this case, they have to find a venue for it because the San Siro Stadium, Milan Stadium is unavailable due to the Winter Olympics. I think it's the opening ceremony.

41:47So it's not a new topic. It's been bubbling away for years. La Liga in particular has tried before. 2018, Barcelona were front and centre of that effort. It was very, you know, it went legal. The politics of European football, international football continue to evolve. And this question of how, where, when European leagues are permitted to stage games, competitive games abroad, continues to, you know, to rumble on. There's obviously politics at all levels of this. So the EU commissioner has chimed in, which prompted Syria and La Liga to hit back with pretty robust statements. UEFA is obviously professionally in bed with Relevant now in terms of selling the Champions League or European competition rights.

42:45Relevant, of course, initially effectively created as a way to place European football in America in all shapes and forms. Within the leagues themselves, there's politics here. So Barcelona want to do something. Guess what? Real Madrid say you can't do that. We don't like that. within clubs. So there's a big mess of politics around all of this. The Premier League have continued to say, and Richard Masters emphasised this on his US tour during the summer series a few weeks ago in lots of media interviews, that the Premier League currently has not got this on the table as a topic of discussion. but obviously La Liga, Serie A are two of the leagues operating, you know, nominally as part of the European big five leagues, but in reality they are two of the four big leagues underneath the Colossus that is the Premier League.

43:43So different situations currently there. Where it's been left is UEFA have launched a consultation to understand more about this, how it would work, pros and cons. They're going to speak to all the stakeholders. they're going to speak to fans not sure what else they think they're going to find out from that it's obviously a very emotive topic there's pros from the league's point of view they're looking at revenue generation they're looking at site fees hosting fees the pr profile piece all the stuff we know about hosting games outside of your geographic boundaries but obviously an emotive issue.

44:20A lot of fan backlash against this, although obviously, as I think we are aware of, quite simplistic to simply state that there's ever one fan view on anything. But there's clearly a lot of feeling here. And there's obviously a precedent that would be set that, as we've seen in a bit of reporting and commentary around this this week from the football media, is something that does create a lot of, I suppose, concern about the future in some quarters. So big topic, lots going on and still permissions to be sought before either league can actually move forward and do the deals that they've already got in place.

45:11Richard:Right. Fascinating. The thin end of the wedge is the main concern, isn't it? You can sort of that phrase being used around here. So the bit at the end there about the sort of relative sort of strength of Serie A and La Liga as opposed to the Premier League, I think is really interesting because I think it sort of raises the question of is this a decision born of strength or weakness? Is this something that they're doing out of desperation to find new audiences or is it just a natural extension and monetising the global fan, and blah, blah, blah, which again can make sense. But I just, I wonder, the other bit is all of the things that we always talk about.

45:53Richard:I'm inherently against it, obviously. That's my starting position. The only time I've had any inkling of a sort of shift is that I had Adam Crafton on from The Athletic and he was, you know, he's been based in the States for the last year running into the World Cup. And we were talking about NBC and he's talking to people at NBC who think it's going to happen with the Premier League. And obviously, Masters then has to go and sort of damp down this speculation and each time it comes up. But one of the questions was that they paid so much money in rights, have they not earned the right? And we're talking about the American marketplace here.

46:30Richard:And at what point do they say, right, OK, this has to be in the next rights cycle? And I think that you know that feels like that's going to be a lever rather than the sort of you know there's a stuntish element to this whether or not it it takes you need one of the big clubs to be there because otherwise it's mid-table mediocrity and it doesn't matter which stadium is going to host it where it's going to host it so I think for the sake of doing it for the the local American fan and the 50 ,000 people will be in the stadium, it's still going to be a televised event. I think it's not worth it, is my sense, because why would you bother?

47:17Richard:And I think that 30 years of the NFL coming to London, we've been on the other end of this, and it's still locked in this will they, won't they? And that's my sense. I feel a bit like, really? James Emmett.

47:35James Emmett:But Rich, you say 30 years of the NFL coming to London. I think it's a little bit less than that, you know, in the modern era of the NFL's annual visits.

47:45Richard:I interviewed the fridge in...

47:47James Emmett:No, sure. They had a little break, didn't they? But then this recent run, I think, started in 2008 or 2009. You really have interviewed everyone, haven't you? He's interviewed a fridge. I've interviewed...

47:57Richard:Yeah, not the fridge.

47:59James Emmett:It's done late at night after a few circles plummet, Just in front of the fridge with a microphone.

48:05Richard:It was in my freelance period. I was selling anything to anyone.

48:08James Emmett:Well, you mentioned the NFL. And you could probably ask the same sort of question about, you know, ahead of their recent spate of games internationally, were they doing that from a position of strength or weakness relative to their competition? It's immaterial now that they are an absolute behemoth and their media rights go up and up and up.

48:32Richard:Not internationally.

48:33James Emmett:Well, I mean, it's still only 2%. Internationally, well, internationally, they grow and grow and grow. But if you look at the NBA, who also have been on a similar internationalisation drive and have brought competitive games to international clines, they are on the verge of launching something real and tangible in Europe and as early as 2027. um so we're led to believe can i just say something can i just say one thing oh please this is what i and i think this is my position i think sport is local i don't think it's global that's too general to be useful i think it's a series of local markets not a useful market it's interesting what you say you said though richard about the um about the nbc conversation and the rights and the feeling perhaps being that they've earned the rights.

49:33James Emmett:It's surely not earned. It's how do you create more value in the next package? Yeah, but also it's what do they think they bought? You know, what portion of the fee that they pay for Premier League football is literally 22 players on a field and that field could be anywhere or pitch? How much of that rights fee would you ascribe to the atmosphere at Anfield a night game at Crystal Palace or whatever, the Britishness, I suppose, the Englishness of the Premier League and Premier League fandom. I think what the NFL has done really well is you go to an NFL game, whether it's at Wembley or Tottenham, it feels, it feels very, it looks very American.

50:19It looks like, you know, they bring it and they make it look and feel that way. And I'm not sure you can, you know, there's a lot more sort of paraphernalia involved in an NFL game than a Premier League game. I'm not sure taking a game to a different country, 90 minute game, putting it in a very American looking stadium, does the trick on its own, which is where we get back to the thin end of the wedge. There's an aspiration.

50:49Richard:Funny enough, I can see a final. I can see a Champions League final in New York. Yeah. This wanting the Champions League final to be a Super Bowl knockoff. That I can absolutely see happening. Funny enough, it's the less status games like someone versus someone in Perth, which I think is a mistake. If they think that's the first step to a final, I just, I think, yeah. I think it needs to be more than a single 90-minute game, which is where it's the thin end of the wedge and suddenly one out of 380 games becomes 10 and then we're in a different conversation. If I was relevant and I was thinking about, OK, how can I make more of an impact?

51:27Yeah, I would probably be talking to La Liga, Serie A. Bundesliga is tricky because of the fan ownership thing. I do think that's really tricky, but I'd be talking to Liga and I'd be thinking, OK, look, can we get let's say three or four games on a single weekend in and around hard rock stadium and create a sort of you know uefa backed european football it's competitive games it's league games but do it as a sort of you know a big sort of festival thing rather than a single barcelona game played on a random weekend in a time zone that sort of still has to work for spain and and the fans back home so it's never going to be in a like a miami version of a sort of amazon premier league night yeah yeah yeah anyway relevant can have that free uh free advice okay right i think

52:21Richard:we're there what just happened but in the meantime thank you very much for your time you're very busy leaders people running into leaders in two weeks time you look tired both of you look like you're working day in day out and uh you should take well we are just to be clear just to be clear we are stop any rumors about workload i thought you just turned up on the wednesday and just did your thing actually i always forget because i never go to the event on the tuesday night you've got an awards thing on the tuesday haven't you and then yeah something else on monday as well what's going on monday yeah we've got a private workshop on the monday private private friends yeah for private

53:02James Emmett:friends only invite only and then on tuesday we've got our leaders club uh a leaders club event which is our sort of up and coming thrusting young executives gathering to ambition in the air

53:15Richard:ambition the waft of ambition you can sense it smell it like like lynx it's pheromones rich

53:22James Emmett:that's what it is yeah it's it's just raw pheromones smells of lynx africa in that room the glory days of links africa but this and thank you very much for your time cheers rich thank you till next time