UP542 Wedge Issues Live: The Golf Business in 2026

21:46Ben Sharpe:So we have a great PGA Tour collaborative golf day where we meet and discuss Sky VIP, lots of different business touch points that golf provides that for. and um yeah it does does all those massively important things what was the impact of so it

22:06Rob Spedding:moved from you'd call them vertical channels sky one two and three to giving golf its own channel what was the impact of that and what what effect does that have on on your job is it is it sort of interesting move and at the time people were wondering how it was going to play out what has been the impact of it?

22:24Ben Sharpe:I think extremely positive because what customers want is a destination for sports they want clarity on where to find discoverability they where is the golf where do I find that and in the old world of Sky Sports 1, 2 and 3 it could have been any of those channels and you had to find it now you know you go to 406 and and find live golf and it's pretty much all day every day some some golf content so it's been very positive and equally we have a channel called main event channel which is the best live offering at any one time and often because um especially the pga tour golf at the end of the day and often dp world tour golf at the start of the day there's no conflicting big sport at that time and golf gets a lot of main event coverage so So you can find your golf on Main Event.

23:18Ben Sharpe:You can find your golf on Sky Sports Golf. And we also have other channels to surface our golf content, linear channels, Sky Sports Plus and Sky Sports Mix as well, because there's often four or five golf tournaments all in one week. So we have to find that place. But we use Sky Sports Golf Channel as the main hub to point our golf customers to all the other options and choices they can have. So my answer question, because we started talking about how great golf is and how buoyant golf is.

23:50Georgia Ball:You measure how good golf is. And if you talk about that final day at the Masters, how would that rank as a show relative to other sports on your platform?

24:01Ben Sharpe:Well, I could pluck out the numbers for you because the Masters had a reach of 7.5 million viewers. It peaked at 1.85 million on the Sunday. And 37 % of the total television audience was watching Rory win the Masters on that Sunday, which is an incredible amount. It also brought in over 1.5 million viewers during the week that had never watched golf up until that point. And the Ryder Cup did similar numbers. It broadened the appeal. 1.8 million female viewers watched the Ryder Cup. It was up 35 % on female viewers. And similar, over a million under 35s watched the Ryder Cup. and it peaked at 2.29 million, which was the highest peak in the history of golf on Sky Sports.

24:59Ben Sharpe:So an incredible year. And it was an amazing year, but throughout Sky Sports Golf's journey, and I've been with Sky for coming up to 32 years, I've been leading the golf team for 20 years, but it continues to grow. We've been very lucky with a Tiger Woods story, very lucky with a McElroy story, very lucky with a Ryder Cup story and Europe's dominance. And we continue to innovate and push and give our customers the choice of where to watch the golf and how to watch the golf. And they want to know where to find it. And they want to know that it's being, it's being innovative and growing and being different every year.

25:40Yeah.

25:40Rob Spedding:It's incredible, isn't it? I mean, in terms of the, I'm a Spurs fan. That's all I want to say. It's like an Alcoholics Anonymous. I'm Richard and I'm a Spurs fan.

25:50Jason Wessely:I am also a Spurs fan so yeah I've never said that out loud

25:54Rob Spedding:this is sort of camaraderie what was I going to say no the point was that because of that the Premier League is waning in interest from my point of view I'd love to get golf and just golf but is it always going to be bundled do you think can you see a time where I could say right okay I want everything you do but I don't want everything else do you think golf is always going to be within the

26:18Ben Sharpe:the bigger bundle at Sky I mean you You can get just golf, but the fact is that most of our customers want the whole Sky Sports package.

26:27Rob Spedding:I've got one more question, Jason, before we move on, which is about, and it's about the women's game. So there's a scheduling question. We had Nikki Doucette on from WSL, Chief Executive of Women's Football, the league, main league in the UK, in England. and the question was they're wrestling a bit with scheduling and putting games on they've got the premier league which is this big monster that they either take on head to head or they try and avoid do the tours the lpg or the ladies european tour come to you for advice in terms of where and how

27:01Ben Sharpe:it should show up on television yeah to a point yes it is one of the biggest headaches of of i mean it's a good problem to have. We have great women's lineup this year of women's golf. So it's a good problem. But equally, it does give us a headache of where to put women's golf up against men's golf and how to make that equation work. We are committing to prioritizing the women's majors this year and we are committing to give the Solheim Cup. It's time in the sun, definitely. And we have ways of doing that. And it's about giving customers choice because not everybody will want to watch the women's major.

27:41Ben Sharpe:Some people might want to watch the Zurich Classic that week or the Scottish Open that week. So it's up to us to give our customers choice. But there should be no doubt that we, that Sky, are prioritizing women's majors. And we will, you know, make sure that our customers know that that's very important.

27:58Rob Spedding:So that's a marketing prioritization. It's not a scheduling one. Yeah, that's what you mean. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Georgia, what do you think about that question, about just the job of getting more people watching women's golf? I think for me, just from personal experience, I've been so fortunate to be at women's golf tournaments. And just to turn up and now to see the amount of people that are there watching and supporting is fantastic. You know, being within that environment and seeing the amount of people that are walking the fairways there every day to support us is amazing. So, yeah, I think it's hugely important to be able to pull that and be able to watch that as well.

28:37And there's a question in terms of just how it shows up from your job, the women's game.

28:42Rob Spedding:And just give us a picture of that.

28:45Georgia Ball:It's a massive opportunity, but it's also we've got to commit to women's golf as an industry. You know, it's interesting. I think when Fred Couples was voted into or elected into the World Hall of Fame, And one of the speeches was about how few people had actually really moved the needle. You know, Arnold Palmer had moved the needle, Sebi Balasteros, Fred Couples, Tiger Woods. I think the next person who's really going to move the needle in golf is going to be a woman. And I think we've got to find that person. We've got to embrace that person, champion that person, and champion the whole movement.

29:20Georgia Ball:Because there's a lot of, you know, if you look at the participation of the game, who we're selling our golf clubs to, we're selling more golf clubs to women than we used to be. They should be part of our ecosystem in different parts of Europe. Actually, women over index in men. If you go to Germany, I think it's 60 % versus 40%. So it's a really important part. And again, we talked about being a broad church. That includes everybody.

29:42Ben Sharpe:And the equation's not that simple from a broadcast point of view. Also, because women watch the biggest events. Women tend to watch the Ryder Cup and Rory winning the Masters. Our data suggests that women don't necessarily watch women's golf. it's the men watch women's golf yeah um so that's an interesting conundrum so i think it's it's about golf as a whole appealing to women and being welcoming to women that's the key golf as a whole not necessarily women's golf on television georgia inevitable question what is it welcoming

30:18Rob Spedding:from your perspective what do you what's your lens into that question yeah i mean it's in my opinion the best sport you can play um again from my previous experience i always say when i was a junior i was uh the only female golfer and and the support i used to have was was incredible from the juniors all through the members and um yeah it's super welcoming and if we can just keep growing showing that and showing how welcome and supportive it is then the more we'll just keep growing the

30:48Jason Wessely:Rob, question on future in women's golf? Yeah, I mean, as Ben said, it's an opportunity. It's definitely an opportunity for us. We've gone into it in a big way just through employing a brilliant women's golf editor in Alison Root, who does a fantastic job, has a lot of great contributors. But I think it's always been in the specialist media. and I've been in specialist media for nearly 26 years now, it's always been a difficult circle to square or square to circle, but it's getting more female readers to, in particular magazines that are usually employing lots of men, websites employing lots of men.

31:37Jason Wessely:It's about being better at representing female golfers on your magazines and on your websites. And we've still got work to do on GoF Monthly. There's no denying that. We still have to work harder at it because we want to build that audience because it's a valuable audience. It's an audience we want. So we're not there yet, but we need to do better. But we want to do that by having more female writers, more female product testers, more female coaches writing for us. You know, that's really important to us.

32:08Rob Spedding:So it's an ecosystem question is the problem, isn't it? It's one of those things that, because we talk about this a lot and it never, you keep bumping into, there are structural questions about audience or just about the preponderance of men in golf that don't want women in them.

32:26Jason Wessely:Yeah, I mean, it's like anything, isn't it? I think that's one of the great things about the boom in social media, golf, YouTube golf, Instagram golf, is that for a very long time it was really easy for someone like me to find someone like me to tell me how to play golf, what to buy in golf. You know, that's really simple. Same in cycling, same in football, same in any sport. And what I think social media has done, to a certain extent, has democratized the sort of the playing of golf. So it's really easy. It doesn't matter who you are. You can find someone who you feel represents you playing golf, telling you how to play golf or telling you how to get better at golf, enjoying golf, telling you that you're welcome at golf clubs.

33:12Jason Wessely:I think that's really important because I'm a reasonably new golfer. I am a middle-aged man. I'm probably quite a good golf club demographic. But still, the first step through a golf club door as a non-member is actually quite frightening. Frightening is probably a bit wrong, actually, a bit strong. But, you know, it's daunting, isn't it? Because you will go in thinking, oh, man, I'm not very good at golf. All these really good golfers are going to be looking at me, laughing at me. They are going to chuck me out because I swear a bit too much when I play. You know, that kind of stuff. That's probably true.

33:48Jason Wessely:but as soon as you get in in my experience and it and i've been lucky thanks to golf monthly to you know i've got my my club that is a very welcoming club feels like a very welcoming club but i've been to some very much grander golf clubs where i just think that i just i don't i don't belong here but when once you get through the door you're just golfers and and i think that is the good thing about people like georgia is this thing everyone's a golfer anyone who's got a gut who picks up a golf club hits a golf ball whether it's on a driving range in pitch you know in a with a pint of beer or on the first tee is a golfer and they're welcome and it's a community it's a passion thing it's you know i think a golf club is a is a gateway drug or a golf bag is a good gateway drug to a whole new life experience i think isn't it and sort of um and discovering more about yourself that sounds quite um quite deep for me but right i'm gonna throw open to

34:51Rob Spedding:questions if you've got any questions just shove your hand in the air and i will send sean your way and i'll uh give you a give you a microphone because if you've always got to speak into a

35:02Georgia Ball:microphone for this to work thank you very much golf has to evolve and sports sorry sport has to involved to sort of survive and through the ages I guess those strong sports have. I'm old enough to remember Kerry Packer and cricket and what it did for cricket with the colourful clothing and the one day internationals that followed and now it's evolved into T20 and what have you. we've got the issue with live at the moment and it's bringing a different dimension to the game of golf however probably history would say at some stage it'll cease I think we'll wait and see but you know that history would probably tell you that however the interesting thing is what in your opinion have live brought to the game that the PGA or DP World Tour could consume, like cricket did with Kerry Packer, to help evolve the game.

36:07Ben Sharpe:So the good and the bad of Liv, basically. I mean, what has Liv brought? I think Liv has contracted players, and we arguably have an unsustainable financial model at the top of men's professional golf. So they've kind of solved that. although they've obviously rewarded them very highly. They've introduced a team element to golf, a regular team element, which some golf fans like, not everybody, but some golf fans like. They've really focused on their live event model, and they've created a very fun atmosphere, although you could argue that's also quite male-heavy and quite sort of beer-y and quite leery, but it's a very successful live event model.

36:55Ben Sharpe:So all those things are good things. And I think, you know, innovation, as you say, in sport is good. And unfortunately, the structure of men's professional golf has meant that the players have resisted a lot of that change and innovation. Part of that is the resisting of mixed formats as well. what would have lived looked like if it had been a mixed format that would have been a really interesting uh project but the biggest thing i think that outweighs all those positives it's divided the world of golf and it and it means that you can't watch bryson and tyrell and john rahm play every week on the pgo tour in a really competitive environment and that's the biggest sadness i think but yeah it's it's made the world of golf think of these different

37:48Georgia Ball:innovative elements yeah i mean there's two things really i think we talked about the team aspect i think that's where golf at the olympics missed a trick because i don't think the professional golfers cover the olympic gold medal as much as they do the green jacket or the claret jug but they would if they were playing for their country and so that actually would bring a team element to it every four years that would have been amazing to be part of but they take live and whether it's sustainable or not, what it has done is it has said that maybe there's another way. And if you take our sport, we historically, we have been good at telling people what they can and they can't do, how they dress, how they show up, how they speak, you know, the restrictions we've made on clubs.

38:36Georgia Ball:And ultimately, in every industry, whether it be viewership, or whether it be participation it's the person who's viewing or the person who plays decides what's the sustainable model going forward and if you just you know in the part we've historically said golf is measured by rounds played it should be measured by balls hit because there are a lot more balls hit now off the golf course than there are on the golf course but it doesn't mean it detracts from it royal county down is one of the greatest places you should play but people who play there aren't necessarily the people who go to top golf or a simulator in korea and just broadening the opportunity for people to go and hit a golf ball is going to be good for us all i think in terms of just to build on your question which is the again it's a question you get quite a lot across other

39:22Rob Spedding:sports which is the sort of there's a resilience of the incumbent rights holder and whether that's a good thing or not is so the pga tours response when live first came through and we had sean Bratches on our podcast who was one of the sort of architects of it and it was quite interesting listening to there's a lot to like about it to Ben's point there was quite an interesting you know the whether it was teams or whatever there was a few misses it's just the execution of it I didn't you know I don't like but the the actual product itself was quite interesting but then when you see you see in rugby you see in athletics you see in the European Super League new things it's really hard to sort of disrupt a mature global sport, you know, and it's really difficult to get the incumbents out if that's the aim.

40:11Rob Spedding:But, you know, even with Saudi's money, you know,

40:13Georgia Ball:I think if I could just say one thing, you know, seeing the best players playing against the best players is amazing in every sport. And that's why the majors have taken a leap above other competitions. and we've got to try and find a way as an industry to try and make that happen. The other thing around teams is you support teams because it's in your soul. I mean, Tottenham Hotspur, unfortunately, are in your soul, but you'll continue to support them. But if it's a country or something that you've grown up with, that makes sense. If it's a manufactured team, I think that's hard to really follow.

40:49Georgia Ball:And so what we want from an individual sport is that gladiatorial battle to see who's best or you want your team to win. And I think that's magnetic in viewership.

41:00Rob Spedding:Yeah. Quite interesting, the 100, isn't it, as a sort of thing, because that appeared. And team brands, I think, you're right, are the hardest bit, I think, to crack because you get the major events, but it's the day-to-day, week-to-week thing.

41:15Ben Sharpe:The key with those formats, though, is that they're complementary, not conflicting. Yeah. And, you know, live conflicts with all our other golf and the mainstream golf. whereas other innovative forms of other sports complement it.

41:31Rob Spedding:So in a way TGL doesn't conflict. Exactly.

41:34Ben Sharpe:TGL is complementary because it's Mondays and Tuesdays and it doesn't conflict.

41:40Jason Wessely:For better or worse, I guess Liv has sort of reminded us that professional sport golf is actually an entertainment product and even just the spats between the Liv golfers and the tour golfers, it's entertaining. not in not necessarily in a good way but but but it's also but it beef yeah but it's also i suppose maybe lifted golf out of just the golf conversation because it it garnered wider coverage and then and i think can the pga tour look at that and think how do we you know what what do we do to not that not that it isn't entertaining but how do we make it even more entertaining not in a sort of um loud music kind of way, but even just make the actual, the action more, increase the jeopardy.

42:32Georgia Ball:You know, we started today about the love of the game and really goosebumps about playing. There's a danger right now that it's rich guys fighting with richer guys about who gets the biggest check when they win a golf tournament. I'd much rather you not do that and give another load of money to Brodie Good, get Wee Wanders and Sky Sports and see the joy of the game again.

42:53Rob Spedding:agree you know i like that's churchillian ending to a podcast i like that might keep that in yes mike right you're gonna have to lean or i'm gonna have to lean over it's a quick one football world

43:07Georgia Ball:cup this summer is it an opportunity or a threat to golf in the uk is that me i think um i think retailers terry's in in the room and he would say that when you know england are playing football that there is a downturn in people playing the sport. So I'd have to take his word for it because he knows a lot more about the retail business than I do. But at the same time with the timing of it, I think there's an opportunity to play and then watch. And then you've probably got more hang time in the golf clubs. And so probably this year with the timing, it's an opportunity.

43:43Ben Sharpe:Yeah, I mean, I think the World Cup final, which England will hopefully be in, is on the Sunday of the Open on July the 19th. in the evening. So it's a great opportunity to play golf in the morning, watch golf in the afternoon, and then watch England win the World Cup. That's going to be a long day, isn't it?

44:00Rob Spedding:That is going to be a long day. Put that in the diary. Any others just before we finish? Yes, Belinda, right. I was lucky enough to be at the launch of the Women in Golf Charter several years ago, and it's been great listening to you all tonight talking about the growth of the women's game. How much more, though, do we need to do to have more women in senior leadership roles in golf across the board, not just on the course?

44:21Georgia Ball:I mean, we're very proud and pleased that we run a meritocracy at Callaway. And in the last two years, finance director is a woman, our operations director is a woman, our head of marketing is a woman. We've got the first woman sales rep in the UK. And we are hiring people on their ability rather than anything else. And so it has been a closed shop historically. It's opening. But so long as we make sure that we deal with people on their merits, then I think cream will rise. And I think there are some really, really talented people who want to be in the golf industry.

45:00Ben Sharpe:Well, we need to do a lot of work is the answer to the question. And in the spirit of you've got to see it to be it, you know, we put talented women on screen on Sky Sports. And we have talented women as part of the production team on Sky Sports Golf. and that has been something I've been very proud of is female participation in Sky Sports Golf, both on the screen and behind the screen. From a leadership point of view, yeah, a lot needs to be done. I think a lot is happening and it's a gradual change. But yeah, a lot of headroom.

45:31Rob Spedding:Okay, right. Thank you very much. We show a round of applause for our panel. Thank you.

45:43Rob Spedding:I'm going to hand back to Chris, but I just want to say a quick thank you first of all to the team at Callaway brilliant and also to MSQ as ever let's do your class cheers

46:14We'll be right back.