UP555 The Lord's Question: What Does The MCC Brand Stand For?

0:00Hello there, Richard Gillis here and welcome to Unofficial Partner, the Sports Business Conversation. The sale of London's spirit was one of the big stories of last year. Some of Silicon Valley's most successful and famous leaders investing into cricket, into the 100, into London and into Lourdes, the most famous and historic cricket ground in the world. That ground is owned by the MCC, which is an organisation I thought I knew, but it feels like it's changing. You can argue this is one of the most important or significant years in the Great Grounds history. In this episode, I talk to Katie Mayer, Chief Marketing Officer at the MCC, and Ellie Roach, Senior Consultant at InCrowd.

0:39The conversation moves through the central tension of the brand, a 200-year-old members club, still 97 % male, sitting alongside a 51 % stake in the hundreds London spirit, a franchise built explicitly on the language of inclusion. inclusion. Katie and Ellie talk through the Silicon Valley money behind the consortium, the data-led case for not chasing vanity metrics in overseas markets such as India, and a content strategy built on six pillars that runs well beyond the cricket itself. So join me for a provocative and insightful conversation that goes far beyond cricket. I hope you enjoy it.

1:24so katie hello to you hello where are you now what's where do we find you i am at lord's cricket ground on the third floor of the ecb building on a very wet day excellent and ellie where whereabouts are you i'm in paddington so just down the road from lord's on an equally wet day in our in crowd offices yeah based near edward road so welcome to both of you this is a conversation i've been thinking about a lot because i'm really interested in in it for its own sake i would i grew up in sort of northwest London. Lourdes was my, I love Lourdes, so I'm going to get that out straight away. So I'm coming from that position and we used to go as a kid and, you know, go to Lourdes, watch cricket and it is one of my favourite places to watch sport or just be around.

2:11I'm really interested in this as a topic and where we go with this as a subject matter, But before we get into it, can we just explain what the day jobs are? So, Katie, what's the job? What do you do all day? Just give us a bit of context. Of course. I don't sit around watching cricket all day. Just to caveat before we get into it. I would. It's your distraction. We get to enjoy it. Yeah. So the title Chief Marketing Officer here. Basically, that means I look after the marketing strategy, which includes our brands, our communications campaigns and all of our digital activations. And that is of the MCC?

2:45That is the MCC. And so by default, MCC owns Lords. So Lords Crown is a big part of that. And we also now have the majority shareholder of the London Spirit franchise. So another one in our wheelhouse. Yes. OK, we're going to come back to all of that in a minute. Ellie, same question. What do you do all day? I'm a senior consultant at InCrowd, so I work with different rights holders to support them with their digital and data strategy. That can be across marketing, but also from a technology perspective and what type of activities things might need to take place in order to meet reach growth objectives.

3:18Largely revenue, but obviously coming with that fan growth and audience growth to drive that. And are we allowed to say other than the MCC who the clients are? Just give us a smattering of names. Is that allowed? Are we allowed to say that? Yeah, absolutely. Do you have to stay behind the scenes? No, absolutely. So I work with a number of different sports rights holders. So cricket, obviously, being one of those. So in addition to MTC and Lords, we work with 20 Cricket and ECB. And then across rugby, so the likes of Prem Ruggerton's EPC, Ascot Racecourse, and then football, the likes of Crystal Palace and Arsenal Watford.

3:55So a large variety in sports, both in the UK and around the world, and also at different journeys and stages of that journey of the Libra strategy. So really interesting, exciting and never a dull day, which is most important. True. That is very true. Right. Thank you. And so, Katie, I am someone who should know what the MCC is. And I thought I used to know what the MCC is and I've got an idea about it. But sometimes I wonder and I saw like the hundred relationship is one area that has shifted. but I look at it and I wonder I associate it with you you will know exactly where I go I've got all sorts of associations with lords I've said I love lords but I never felt part of a club there I never felt part of the group I never had a red and yellow tie and all of that backstory to the MCC so what's the job so your head your chief marketing officer how who is the audience for the MCC today and what does it do really fundamentally?

4:57Yeah so the audience is incredibly varied I think it's worth framing that cricket has a really varied product nowadays which has set the audience as being very varied so we go from you know the long-standing test match format and the county championship right through to the hundred which you've just referenced so by its very structure we're actually in a really strong position to have a variety of different audiences and we can cater for them with different types of crickets. Our members are obviously first and foremost fundamental to us we've got over 20 000 members of the club and they are deeply invested in the club and its future and has seen some iconic moments particularly at lords over the years so we always have our members in our minds front of mind with a number of things we do but obviously lords can engage many more people beyond our members and we've got capacity of over 30 000 here now we host multiple international matches a year so we are always thinking as well about other audiences as much as we cater for our members and those other audiences have clearly diversified and expanded over the last few years with those diversification of products themselves so we're thinking of young and old we're thinking of men and women we're thinking of people from all walks of life who are possibly just having their first foray into the world of cricket and wanting to step inside the gates of lords for the first time through to those who might understand the games a bit better and want to come on a more frequent basis and of course some of those might then decide to apply to become a member for the long term okay so explain then the so ellie this is a question for you in terms of the the my my view of an mcc member is a visual view and it's the lord's pavilion at a lord's test match compare that lens to what you see so you're looking at the digital world and the digital audience what's the difference just take us inside that because I think the difference between those two things is I think we're part of this conversation is going to take place yeah absolutely and I think there are those traditional audiences that you might visualize in your mind that exists across there for sure but we're thinking digitally this isn't just I engage digitally because I don't attend but when I am attending I want a digital experience when I'm there as well to make my physical interaction or my event more convenient for me and more enjoyable.

7:13We start to see a lot of that diversification that Katie just mentioned. I think moving away from the traditional male audience, a lot of major sports events as well, and actually considering the sort of family aspect coming through at all different types of events. Obviously the 100 being a big sort of family. But what we've seen in doing some of the audience insights projects that we work on is, you know, family isn't a segment. Throughout all of the different audience segments and groups that might attend, And coming with friends and family is a really important motivator. So just because the event might be framed at families doesn't mean that we need to, I guess, make it more childish or more appropriate for children, the event.

7:54We can still keep the core of that, but we just need to be mindful that there might need to be different activations that happen, different food and drink offerings that are more appropriate for those people who are coming. you know how the toilets are set up for example there's lots of different things that come with that and moving to a more diverse audience set which might not be the traditional typically largely male audience that that might have attended in the past so again the membership is male there's a male female question and we've got a moment coming up a vote coming up but in 1998 the membership opened up to women but how many are there now that so how many members are there and how many are women i guess is one question yeah so the ratio is still extremely heavily weighted towards males in terms of they're actually full members of the club it's 97 males 3 females what has obviously been the cause of that is that when the vote came through in the late 90s there was already at that point a long waiting list which has only got longer in recent years before so there's a limit to how much we can extend that capacity of membership so it's taken a long time for those members those female applicants to make it into full membership what's pleasing is in recent years when we've done a lot of work to try and encourage more applications by female members is we're seeing that coming through now so although there's three percent women members currently we're seeing 20 percent of applications now coming from females and the aspiration is to try and get it more to that level in terms of full membership clearly the process of doing so is complex and it needs to be done in a way that our existing members feel comfortable with and are consulted by and that's a process we're going through at the moment but I think there's no question that the general aspiration of the club and the members it's a seam or parity over the coming years it's just how you can best achieve that fairness role do you think that so when you lay that into something like the hundred so the hundred is is it's been created and it's it's a sort of festival of inclusion and inclusivity it's a different type of cricket than the mcc that i in my head i go to the mcc and that's men it's white men in red and yellow ties watching men play cricket at lords so that's that's one version of the world the hundred is talking a completely different version of the world i'm trying and i was thinking you have got a really hard job trying to work out how that juxtaposition works through because and i wonder there's a bit of me that wonders actually whether or not there's a marketing route which is not about diversity and inclusion it is actually drilling down on owning the privilege of the mcc with all its connotations and acting more like a global luxury brand very exclusive very expensive and you can't come in unless you can pay the ticket you can see where i'm getting at you'll have had these conversations but i'm just fascinated by the just that there's not many places in sport that are trying to bridge a gap quite as wide as the MCC and the 100 yeah and I think I've talked about it sometimes just in meetings as a bit of a tightrope at points because you are trying to get the balance right but I think if you go back to the basis of why a marketeer does their job is we're here to serve our customers and and in this respect our fans and our fans are a broad church they are members but they're also non-members and that non-membership has broadened its own right and i think it's also pointing out that our members aren't just one archetype of one typical person they they have varied views and varied needs as well i think it links actually to sort of a broader perception around women's sport and we see it's women's cricket that just because you're a woman doesn't mean you watch women's sport or a man watches men's sport and the same could be said about who comes to our test matches in the hundred and if you look at the city we've got a test match this week we've got you know over 30 000 in the ground the members will make up a minority of that attendance there'll be a lot of people in the ground who come here who are non-members so we are able to serve them I think the key is how we segment how we talk to the audiences in the right way for them in the right channels at the right moment to serve that customer serve that fan what they need clearly what we might provide as a customer offering in pavilion might differ from what we might provide on the nursery ground where we might have more families doing spontaneous cricket and wanting to grab different types of food and drink and activities and that kind of follows through the 100 as well the 100 is interesting because there is a perception that traditional cricket fans including you know perception of an mcc member aren't engaged in the 100 but actually we sell out the pavilion instantly the final and often for the other matches as well and this you already seen double the sales from members for the 100 so there is an appetite from them and especially from some of our children and grandchildren in fact we we just recently launched our london spirit kit and we featured a member in his 80s called Ted with his I think it's son I can't remember son or daughter apologies to Ted and grandchildren and a great-grandchild all in that kit launch shoot and he openly says what a brilliant thing it's been for encouraging his his family to come to cricket but London spirit then let's just pick that because again what I didn't appreciate really is that the number of brands you've got under the umbrella of the MCC so immediately you've got lords but you've got london spirit and then you've also got some other sort of what you might call sub-brands within there that um again are telling different stories so again it's quite interesting just to sort of get below the cliches if you like and the preconceptions when you look at london spirit so what does mcc own as part of that they've got 51 is that right yeah 51 so we got a majority share and 49 % owned by our partners at Consortium.

13:25And who are the prominent people in the partnership on the 49 % side? It's quite a lineup. I mean, I would want to name all 24, I think it is, of them, but they are very impressive individuals who've all come into it, I think I can say with confidence, because they've got a massive passion for the game. So they've come in because they love the game, but they see it also as a commercial investment. You've got the CEO of Palo Alto in there. You've got the CEO of Google, CEO of Microsoft, There are some big names in the lineups. You have Times India. The list is long. So these are individuals who know business inside out.

13:59They want this to be a commercial success. No question. That's really important to them. And I think they see the huge potential in it. Hence the money they could have put into it in the last year. But they're also here to enjoy that unique experience that is Lord's. And what was the final number? It was around about 300 million, wasn't it? Yeah, it was 295 million. Of course, the 49 % share of that, I think, was 143. OK, so you've got some of the most famous and successful people in Silicon Valley investing in the Lords 100 franchise or, you know, in 49 % of it. What have they bought, do you think?

14:36And where does the MCC's brand play in their view, the view from Silicon Valley of London and cricket and Lords? Yeah, you've touched on really what they've bought into. I think if they were being interviewed now, I hope this reflects their view. Or certainly Nikesh, who's the main contact we have within the consortium, which is Lourdes in its own right, is a huge prize. There's no question that Lourdes was the major appeal, but so was London. So those two huge assets are what makes London's spirit so unique. The fact that we are in arguably the greatest capital city in the world, certainly one of them, but that we also are the guardians of Lourdes, the home of cricket.

15:15you put those two elements together with a progressive mindset and commercial investment and they are going to multiply potentially in value and the reach that they can generate. Now, obviously, historically, the 100 over the last five years has been focused on domestic UK audience. It's been focused on getting people through the doors to watch the games and sell out stadiums for the first few years. What will be interesting, I think, is with this global commercial mindset and the now that's being invested into the 100, not just in this team but in other seven seven other teams is how this can then potentially go beyond our shores and go into a global global market so ellie let's just pick that thread up then because we had peter hutton on talking about cricket and he talked about he was formerly at meta facebook and he ran sport at the you know that organization and he he was also chair of the america the world cup in america the cricket world cup now one thing that he said that remained with me is that he saw the data the audience data of cricket in america and that's why he is very very bullish on he's a cricket fan anyway but he really likes the american story and he that felt like the thread from what cage has just articulated about london and you know the hundred back to america and successful business people in america can you can you just sort of put some bones on that because it feels like that is a thread that's important here and London is part of it the brand is part of it but there's also something happening in an audience in the states or other places that you know we can maybe get into a bit absolutely and I think what's really important and what we feel really strongly about is you know not just taking data for you know commercial purposes and a take there has to be value that goes back to those fans and that then creates that long-term engagement and ultimately that growth pathway you know what we don't want to see is some people coming because London Spirit has a new rebrand and isn't that great and we want to go and see it we want to create the next generation of long-term fans that create that sustained growth and value I don't believe that the investors are here quick win um it's here for the sort of long-term and and how we can drive that using data both from an insights perspective to make audience-led decisions be that across brand be that across the experience be that across broadcast decisions and activations that might happen both physically and digitally but also then around creating those personalized experiences back to those fans and creating scale across the board do we know much about the again one question is the is the indian diaspora and is that what is being shown up on you know in the audience that actually one of the conversations you have elsewhere separately about not just the 100 but the IPL and various other sort of you know cricket audience questions is that the game is chasing Indian eyeballs around the world not just domestically we talk about the IPL but also just you know it's a huge diaspora and that's the core of the international audience that's something you would agree with so these aren't sort of classic west coast Californian people they are Indian diaspora Californian people is that right yeah I think from a global cricket audience absolutely where london spirit are on their journey is really focusing on closer to home for year one and we're i guess we're kind of calling it year one is the new the new era of london spirit in their in their year one um versus when it was centrally owned by by the 100 and ecb and so ultimately we want to be able to serve a global audience but you can't be all things to all people and risk diluting that message if london is that core reason for investment and people's interest which it absolutely is and the fortress of lords you know we really need to double down on that and create experiences both physically and digitally that that serve that group the rest kind of follows if you're only chasing india it kind of you can't do that first you need to really focus on that that home audience and ultimately the direct revenue streams that are going to come from attending fans etc as a priority and then look at how you can serve those audiences that can't attend in slightly different ways, but starting to understand the motivators and reasons why they would engage with London Spirit is still equally important.

19:31So is that kind of star power in the players and therefore what's the type of content that's created that is targeted specifically at these audiences? There's lots of others that have done it incredibly well, like Wimbledon, for example, they have a very clear strategy for their India market in previous years, and they've created content themes using particular influences or particular interest points at Wimbledon to drive specifically to that market and geoblock and sort of scale in that area. It shouldn't, I don't believe it should be the focus point for year one. And Katie, I know there's a lot of things that is going on to really focus on that home crowd and attendance for this year in particular.

20:14I think I understand as well that this talk's probably the broader strategy for Lords and I'm sure many other venues and rights holders in recent years, which is to not be distracted by vanity metrics of the number of followers you might have from a particular continent or country because they're particularly engaged in one or two individual players. There's no question if we put a Sachin Tendulkar video up from years ago or a Virat Kohli moment up, we will get very high engagement for that moment. But it's not deep and long-lasting. So I think the most important thing for us right now is to, as Eddie's highlighting, is to engage a deeper fandom, which we have to start with on our doorstep.

20:49But how we then take this in future years to come will be all part of the strategy. It's being built in now that we create genuine London spirit fans from overseas. And there's ways we can then bring them into the gates of Lords even if they can't physically come through the gates through those forums. For example, we've launched a content platform in the last year or so called Inside Lords and there'll be other opportunities such as that which means that they can feel really genuinely part of it as opposed to just a sporadic click once every few weeks. So what's the international lens on the MCC?

21:18I've got a very I've got a northwest London lens on the MCC and it's a bloke of my ages, you know, and backgrounds lens. But it's quite an interesting brand. I, you know, in terms of, again, it's if you go back, you're looking at it as a sort of quite a patrician white British brand, which is is I'm wondering what that looks like from the Indian marketplace. and I can see a because we fall into a trap of saying Gen Z is a sort of monolith but actually there is you know variations and huge variation within that category just because of the age similarity so what does it what do we think it looks like from abroad the MCC?

21:59It's still I think held in sort of this slightly mythical high regard by a lot of those audiences you just referenced and it's not you know that sounds like we're sort of blowing our own trumpet here but we see millions of tour visitors coming through we've had the opportunity to come into the ground outside of matches and visit the mcc museum which is here obviously the ashes earn is there and do a tour of the ground and see father time and grace gates and all those brilliant places through the pavilion as well and we we have a huge indian market unsurprisingly they are by far the biggest market that wish to come through but we also see visitors from from many other countries as well and and the general the general perception that we get through both those physical visits and the digital engagement that we have from fans or certainly people in those global locations is one of genuine aspiration to visit.

22:45It is a bucket list destination, Lords. And I think sometimes when you're on the inside of it, you're close to it. And some of the day-to-day humdrum, you forget that. I'll never get used to how people react when they walk into the pavilion. It's astonishing how people react. There's tears, there's real emotion. and I still think it is felt in that way. Now, of course, we have fun banter relationships with certain countries and their citizens and the Australians, especially we see lots of Aussies coming around the ground and there's always a bit of fun there. But I think ultimately it's still held in very high regard because Seed is kind of a cathedral of cricket.

23:21And yeah, it's a hard experience to compare and hopefully it will carry on being felt like that for a long time to come. Ellie mentioned Wimbledon there. And again, there are very few case studies that manage that sort of heritage question with being up to date and being modern and new? And is that the aspiration? Because I can see, I absolutely buy into your painting of Lourdes there. And it's up there in my mind with Wimbledon as somewhere, you know, and Augusta or wherever we choose to talk about. But how do you do that? And what are the limits of that, the modernisation of Lourdes and the MCC?

24:00It's that tightrope again, isn't it? is taking, keeping the integrity of all of the heritage, all of those unique assets that we have, which we are so privileged to have them, as are Wimbledon, as are many of the other examples you just gave. But finding a way to make them accessible in a slightly mysterious way, and I can give you the best example of that is the home dressing room. We don't suddenly let out the home dressing room for photo shoots every other day. We're very careful about how it's broadcast and how it's shared with the world. But we find the right moments now to make it a little bit more accessible.

24:32So take, for example, Jimmy Anderson's final day. We enabled Nasser and the Sky team to go in there, and there was that famous moment when he walked out the balcony and he downed his pint of Guinness, and the crowd were on the pitch to watch him. Those little steps are all actually strategically planned in in recent years to enable the fans to feel a little bit closer but to retain the mystique. And I think those digital platforms, such as Inside Lords that I referenced, but a lot of the things we're doing through our content strategy are all part of that. we've doubled down on content just like any decent brand has in recent years and Wimbledon are such great examples of that and how well it's engaged a much wider fan base so that we can enable fans who might normally get as close to these elements to feel that they are part of it I think it's also bringing to life some things that go beyond the field yeah and a recent campaign we've launched has been actually what's the experience when you come in if you're not a hardcore cricket fan but you know you want to go to Lourdes it's Lourdes you want to come here at least once and feel the experience but you don't just come here for the cricket you come here for the greenery you come here for the social for the delicious food and drink for the heritage and the things you might see around the ground so really dialing up those experiences has been an important part of our our sort of brand strategy in the last couple of years so that we genuinely feel that we are engaging a wider audience for the future okay i'm gonna so i'm looking at this summer and obviously it's a big summer for women's cricket and we've got the t20 final at lords i didn't realize until i did the sort of a bit of research for this conversation that there's never been a women's test match at this at lords which is pretty astonishing isn't it in 2026 yeah it's 50 years to the year the first ever women's international took place here that we will host our first ever women's test this summer 2026 i think there's probably some reasons behind it primarily from an ecb point of view that you need you need an audience there's nothing worse for a team playing two teams playing than to be playing in a stadium that's massive and there's a smattering of people to watch it and i think that's not what this is about though is it that's well no but so i think we feel we're ready i think they feel we're ready and suddenly when when the test match was awarded a couple of years ago that was on the back of us breaking a couple more records in terms of international attendances and I think they thought you know what they're ready and we felt ready and we were very willing to host it as you said this is this is a huge summit this this would probably be the the most pivotal year in women's cricket at the ground arguably in its history when you look at the fact that we're going to go into that that t20 world cup final on the 5th of July having had three other matches prior to that point we're then five days later going to host the first ever women's test you then add in the new era of London's spirits which in its own right has a first ever a job for women, which is the general manager role for Heather Knight.

27:12And there's some other grassroots things going on as well. We've got a new state schools final launching in September as well. We've never had so much women's cricket played here or girls' cricket. And the audiences will be unprecedented. Tens of thousands of people are going to come in and watch women play this summer. So, yeah, it's been a long time coming. Just delighted it's finally here. And I think they will feel genuinely wanted and appreciated and that there's a proper fan base for them, which is the most important thing. When I sort of lapse into my traditional view of the MCC, which you'll be bored to death of me talking about, I wonder how large the sort of ultra conservative group within the membership is.

27:54You know, the argument is always it's a small but vocal group and there is resistance to movement. You can't we can't deny, you know, that that since 98, there's only three percent of women members. We've never had a test match, women's test match at Lord's in history. So there is something that is stopping that. And obviously you get to prejudice and you get to the core of the MCCO membership. it now the question is where are we now and are is the story that you want to tell harder because this is more universal than just cricket and mcc is it is the inclusive inclusivity story marketing story more difficult to tell now than it would have been five years ago there's all of the that the sort of weather around politics suggests that this would be dismissed as woke the mcc goes woke But just talk to me about what that looks like, because I think we're at a really interesting phase.

28:54And this isn't just about cricket and the MCC. It's about women's sport more generally. I've talked to people at the FA. I've talked to lots of people at football clubs who are now weighing up social inclusion messaging in a way that they wouldn't have done even three years ago. So just talk to me a little bit about that. Yeah, that's a really good question. And I was going to actually respond about women's sport in general. And you've hit the nail there that this is clearly not exclusive to cricket alone. I don't feel that it is harder if that's sort of the question around this. I definitely feel there's a lot more momentum having been in this role now for sort of just over four years than even four years ago.

29:31So cricket especially has been clearly helped by the 100. The 100 has made a huge difference for the women's game as it really set it on a new platform and gave it those eyeballs and that sense of parity. I think as long as you have a lens that whatever you're putting out there to the fan, back to what are you serving your fan that's of interest to them, that it feels authentic and compelling and of use and of interest to them, then it's hard to challenge that. It's hard to criticise it. you know the women's game in terms of the quality of the performances has improved a lot it's not to say they don't want to improve further of course they do but it's come a long way in the last few years so you're first and foremost you're putting out good quality cricket on your digital platforms and in the ground itself but you're also doing things in a really authentic high quality way we're still realistic you know we still know that you know if we put out a joe root video it's going to have more engagements than potentially one of one of the women's players but the the delta is much less than it used to be.

30:27And there is support as well from the men's game. So overall, I don't think that any vocal minority challenges that. A lot of those issues, I think, sit more around people want to feel that it's fair. They want to feel that they have access to what's in their rights and what they've taken their time or paid the price to have. But I don't think at the moment, there's a sense here that women's cricket is taking away from the men's. It's actually just a great additive that's been added to our schedules and to our content. I think within that as well, it goes across the board of any change that happens.

31:01People don't love change generally. I don't think that the challenge is how we're, whether to modernize, it's how to modernize. And it's taking things that you don't compromise what makes those things special in the first place, be that the product offering, be that technology, anything else that goes alongside it. So we think about mobile ticketing, for example, feels second nature now, but it's a pretty recent feat since sort of 2021 probably in this country and actually that first change freaked everyone out and now you wouldn't expect to go somewhere with a digital physical ticket to a number of places that doesn't mean that the traditional physical aspects that still need to go alongside the member experience for example don't remain in terms of books and things like that that go alongside but actually what what is supported and what change is that modernization without losing what makes things special because that's why people came in the first place and that's why future audiences want to come as well because it is so special and traditional too yeah no i it's a really interesting point the other bit i sometimes wonder is about the corporate audience and so you know when you've got large global corporations what their lens on this question is and so if you said well you know i said at the beginning you know as a sort of provocation there's another marketing route for the mcc you could go and own the privilege and you could then become a sort of a different a point of difference in a marketplace which services a an audience domestically and internationally who want to be in an exclusive club so but then you lay in large banks or car companies or big sponsor categories and there i wonder what their response to that is have we got a lens on that what do we where do you think they are in this bit of the conversation yeah i mean i don't think you can expect to go to market in in this era in 2026 and exclude a women's sport and be just general diversity of thought and community engagement and and the general the general pillars that many of us are going after now we've got a principal partner in barclays we signed them a year and a half or so ago they are actively involved in women's sport women's super league wimbledon ourselves and one of the major premises for them coming on board was they they really love the fact that we're growing in the women's game and also in terms of our community engagement and i think for a lot of these partners you know it's no longer a badging exercise they don't come in and just want to have a boundary board and load of free hospitality for a load of load of males that we discussed earlier there but i think they're looking for so much more than that i know they are they're looking for deep sort of authentic engagement with our audiences and to do good and good at the game is one of our pillars that's something the mcc is very proud of we do a lot of work for the game not just in this country and overseas and through the foundation and that's some of the areas not just for the girls cricket but for the boys cricket as well that our partners really love and really get behind in the barclays night stokes cup that's going to launch in september they they they didn't take much to persuade to get involved in that because they could see the actually brilliantly authentic initiative that would bring bring kids into the game so you you would definitely close yourself off to partners if you weren't open yeah to to diversify it's also the it's actually a bigger signal you know if if an organization like the mcc is is making is evolving in this way i said at the beginning your tightrope analogy is right in that it's it's a longer journey you could argue but actually it's a more powerful one because of that and so actually you know something that okay people will take note of because it's really hard miles and I you know and I sort of tip my hat to you because I think you know I can imagine what the conversations are like but actually it's a really interesting case study I think it's one of the most interesting case studies you've got in sport yeah and it comes back to this point a bit too I think around we're not suddenly turning off ways of doing things as we've done before I think that's really important the digital passes is a classic example which anyone know well through our app but we've launched this year for the first time digital membership passes so the cover to little red book is now accessible digitally and you can this is but this is bolshevism absolutely this is we haven't got imagine what the response would have been the books still exist the books still exist whether that exists forever is to be seen but i think it's about bringing people on a journey and making sure they feel comfortable with that we're not turning the tap off a classic example for me has been the popularity of some of our online members meetings which you'd have thought four or five years ago clearly covid was a good catalyst for a lot of people getting online you thought who would want to do that in our membership they find them so useful we get hundreds dialing in i think this is generally once a month we've got another one next week really useful informal forum for an hour where our chairman and ceos sit down and chat members and various directors answer questions throughout that and really good engagement now if we put those always physically on which we still do a bit we probably wouldn't get the same take up so it's about it's about providing a choice i think and that's what we're trying to do we're trying to segment our products and segment for our audiences so that everyone finds what's right for them and and generally generally we get it right not always but generally we try to get it right this isn't all just happening now clearly barclay is brought into the partnership off the basis of proven returns from that partnership and those audiences the diversity a lot of the things that Katie ought to.

36:24So it's, while there's a lot of huge milestones happening this year, there's a lot that has been going on in the sort of previous years to build up to that. And therefore it's not this big bang of everything's suddenly happening and there's all this change. It's been demonstrated to bring the partners on board that the MCC has, which is testament to the work that Katie and the team have been doing over the years to achieve that. Ellie, I was going to ask you, if there's a day where you wake up and you think, okay, it's a content question. And what gets the most engagement? Because Katie mentioned there about, you know, a Joe Root video or Virat Kohli video.

37:00But can you just give us a sort of idea of what the absolute guarantees of a response are in that world? When you push content out, you think, OK, well, I know that's a banger. And then there's others that you think, OK, there is there are more difficult messaging or whatever it is. But just what's that world look like? I think it's preparing for the unexpected. so as much as you'd love to plan out every single moment that's going to happen the viral moments that that go across the world are things that you can't plan for as much as you'd like so little interactions potentially between players and and fans something that might happen with the trophy lift uh i mean i think that the fox running rounds uh the crowned lords did did pretty well last year as well um but things like that just seem you know bring that authenticity through um equally there are really fun viral moments that also happen through brand partnerships that are appear authentic but maybe aren't so thinking about the liverpool google pixel selfie for example and those sorts of things that are now you see them at the olympics all of the podium pitch has been taken on phones etc and actually it then breeds into these really nice ongoing activations that that people still love, even if it's less authentic than it maybe seemed.

38:20But it all comes from humanising players, humanising fans, and even behind the scenes coaching staff and things like that. So I think that access and bringing, you know, giving those stars, both on the pitch and sort of backroom staff, a space to be their own stars and sort of support that message, both themselves on their own platforms, but also via sort of the official rights world apartments as well. You mentioned the Liverpool, the selfie thing, and it's interesting how the tropes come and go, isn't it? And how you sort of think, oh, OK, we'll jump on that one. And you can be late and you can look late, can't you?

38:57And it looks a bit opportunistic. And it's really such a fast-moving thing, and you need someone who knows the culture intimately to, you know, someone like me would make stupid and obvious mistakes. You know, I'd go in and jump on the thing too late. But so you need some lens on that in terms of, OK, you need to be savvy enough to know what's good and what isn't. The other bit that I was going to ask you about is it's sort of there's cricket and then there's sort of other adjacencies. And you're seeing those getting worked more. I mean, it might get into, I don't know, food or the audience or you might get to sort of other stuff that like sometimes.

39:39And sometimes the question is how far you can get away from cricket. Do you know what I'm getting at? So in terms of the, once you're starting to comms plan stuff, you might start to say, yeah, this is a good idea. We can have Joe Root baking or whatever. And then after a while you think, why is he baking? I quite like that idea. I know, they just fall off me. Well, definitely. I touched on like these sort of content pillars, as we call them. We've got six that we're focusing on for the big campaign this season. Cricket's one of them. And then there's five others. and one of those is food and beverage and others is heritage and socials and bits and bobs but the food and beverage one for example right now our main work with our PR agency is not actually around the cricket it's around get us in with some really great food and beverage influencers and content creators and get the right editors and writers coming to the season to see what we do here because we do you know I will unequivocally say we have I think the best food and drink in cricket and the players menu is one of the most followed elements on our social posts on the match day and so forth so yeah we're often thinking laterally we're not just thinking in that singular way because again I think that's that's how you engage people who might just want to dip their toe in coming here for the first time might have an interest in the big moments but want to think what else is in that day for me why would I stump up for a ticket and a train ticket and all the rest of it what am I going to get from the broader experience and actually when you look at traditional cricket day as a test day it's a long day there's a lot to it you don't necessarily want to sit and watch seven eight hours cricket hopefully you get that much there's not too much rain but all those other elements are really important to your day we did some research actually as part this year's campaign around what makes it special and a big thing that came through was this whole meeting up with people and not just friends from the past but new people you event you inevitably sitting in the stands you socialize those around you before you know you've found someone you wish you know or an interesting comment you might see someone you always meet up with once a year when you come to Lourdes and you reunite behind the Compton Nedrich with an ice cream those magical little stories now it's actually what make these experiences special and same probably for people to go to Wimbledon and other major events so yeah we're not together leaning into that we're going to be dialing that up even more I quite like the you know Wimbledon crowd talking to each other I like that sort of whatever it was secret microphone again that was you know that's been going five years probably is it I mean again that's why oh that's really bold and innovative I'm sure that's been you know it's uh again i saw that being but in various iterations things iterate over time you mentioned the creator thing and where and who can add to the world because obviously you get the you know the players themselves they are limited in terms of they've got to be really good at cricket so they've you know they're busy and they've got to do that bit of it but they're telling a different story they're telling a performance story presumably and then you've got these other stories that that appeal to different people you mentioned there about segments who are who are the people who are you're you're looking at beyond the ones that i would know obviously yeah well i mean there's various segments actually might let ellie talk to them because you know them as well as anyone don't you but from our traditionalists right through to us a big one-off event but one-off eventers those from come for the big moments perhaps i'll hand to you ellie because it's your your sweet spot i would say yeah so we kind of think about how closely engaged someone might be with with london spirit for example and the mcc and you've got your cricket traditionalist which i imagine is who you had in mind um richard when you're thinking about your audience but then as we get further away you've got sort of the uh sports sort of big eventers that will sit somewhere in the middle where they'd like to go to sports events but they're not necessarily a diehard cricket fan so starting to think about what um product they might be interested in is that more of a t20 audience rather than the test match for example and then And as we get further away, we're thinking more about that culture side.

43:22And so is that that lifestyle brand that kind of comes with being seen at a test match and experiencing the amazing food and hospitality? Is that people who are visiting London and want to do something iconic, like go to Lords for a cricket match? So starting to think about how closely and deeply engaged that person might be all the way up to less engaged, but how we're still attracting them. And I think it's really important that, you know, heritage is fundamental, but it doesn't unlock growth. And so we need to be really comfortable in leaning into all of the other audiences in order to sustainably grow, grow the game, which ultimately will be rewarding for those traditionalists, because hopefully they will want the game to succeed and to see more of it.

44:06And so it's this sort of, yeah, I guess, circle or self-fulfilling prophecy that we need to think about, where if we don't open it to more audiences, the game can't grow and therefore the investment doesn't come that makes the national team better and us win the Ashes, hopefully, and things like that. So it's thinking about it in that lifecycle aspect. But I think that top of the funnel is a really exciting opportunity that is massively untapped. Yes, I think I am. When it comes to cricket, I mean, it's not all about me. People say that. It is actually about me. but there's a the traditionalist and the big eventer i mean we have fun on this podcast and with newsletters and we sort of take the mick out of big eventers because you sort of think i'm a you know they don't like sport you sort of build up a cliche of they really like fireworks and balloons essentially big eventers and they they're there and they get bored and one of the in the run into london 2012 and then out the other side and it's grown over time they become this absolute central bit of the conversation in terms of marketing sport to them and I wonder what the implications of that are on the product so I was watching say for example the Champions League Men's Champions League final and they've got a music event in there and no football fan ever wants a music event a football match but it's not there for them it's for the big eventers presumably so I'm just wondering that tension is where you know you can have fun with that in terms of winding each side up.

45:31So, but within the MCC, that traditionalist big eventer gap is... Yeah. Consider it. You're back to the tightrope again, Katie. Absolutely. You go, Alive. I'll come in. It's funny, by the way. Hopefully you can't hear this. Yeah, I don't know. It's authentic, you know, authentic noise. I think within that sort of middle group, as we might call it, you've got your sports enthusiast eventers. So I would probably put myself in that, where I will watch everything and anything. I'm just watching live sport. I'm not necessarily a cricket fan, but I'm going to the match on Saturday and I'm super excited for the day there.

46:06But then you do have your potential more culture and art, theatre, music, like going to live events. So even within that big event group, you've got the sporty end and the not-so-sporty. So again, you can start to, it's not big jumps between each of these steps, it's the gradual, I guess, further away from traditional, we might want to call them as it goes. And again, not trying to be all things for all people. So if we're thinking about the next couple of years, the importance of really being, okay, let's broaden out from our traditional core group, who are those next people, people who like to go and watch sport, who actively will choose to spend their money and time doing that.

46:46That's who we're going after. We're not going straight up for, you know the arts and theatre go straight away we're going to gradually get to those um which makes that gap feel less overwhelming and jarring so more sport and probably less balloons i was just going to add to that as well in terms of when you get to the events and how the event there's expectations in certain fan bases for certain certain formats to have all the balloons and the pizzazz and again we're sort of very aware though of managing it and segmenting it different way so when you come to the test match this week i'm afraid there is still the rule there's no fancy dress so no flags and no horns and the pa will only be so loud and we want to celebrate the lord's hum in fact we're going to do a big content piece this week around the lord's hum because that's what makes it special yeah but equally come into a london spirit match this summer we want it to feel as biased to london spirit as you could possibly feel we've never had a team of our own in our history and we want it to feel blue we want to feel london spirit so extra noise went up to our fours and sixes and all that razzmatazz.

47:47So I think it's, again, it's just that tightrope, balancing the right product for the right audience and then how you're communicating to them. It's interesting, the sort of each word is a trap almost, because, you know, I am a traditional cricket fan, but we've talked about traditionalists and that comes with a sort of certain connotation of, again, that we've discussed earlier. So it's interesting the way in which those groups then need to get broken up further and further and further and how that works. There's a, I remember there was a, there was a stat. It was to do with the women's one day World Cup final, more coffee being sold than beer.