A Wild West revenge tale and the Black roots of cowboy culture

0:01I'm Ayesha Rascoe and this is a Sunday story from Up First. Recently we lost one of country music's greats, Dolly Parton. I love Dolly. My kids receive books through her imagination library, her children's literacy program, and I just loved her larger than lifestyle. You know, she embraced her big hair and the rhinestones and the cleavage, which I also enjoy. And I think I saw a little bit of myself in her or really she gave me permission to be more of myself. I am not subtle. I don't have like a classic style. I can be a little bit over the top and I love a bit of gaudiness, right? And so I loved that Dolly embraced that and allowed me to embrace being me.

1:04In honor of Dolly, I wanted to bring you a conversation today with a member of the next generation of country musicians. Somebody who also won't compromise his vision and his style. Shaboozy.

1:24Now you may know the Grammy Award winning singer-songwriter Shibuzi from his features on Beyonce's Cowboy Carter or from his chart-topping single, A Bar Song Tipsy.

1:47Well, his latest record has a different vibe.

1:56That's the song Sweet Revenge from the outlaw Sherry Lee and other Western tales.

2:15Sweet Revenge is the fifth song on a genre-defying album all about the epic life of the titular outlaw Sherry Lee and about how far she'll go in her quest for vengeance.

2:36Shibuzy wasn't sure how this album would go down. It's a high-concept feat of storytelling, fusing hip-hop with country, spoken word, and ballads. It even comes with a comic book that builds out Sherry Lee's world. But also, Shibuzy hopes, it's a reminder and a celebration of the Black roots of Western cowboy culture. I hope that people can understand that, like, just me, I'm a representation. I am Black. I am in country music. There's nothing you can do to take that from me.

3:12Today on The Sunday Story, Shibuzi tells me about the inspiration behind his Outlaws and how his cinematic album came together.

3:25Stay with us.

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4:50So hey, y 'all. That's what I'll say, too. What up, y 'all? So Shaboozy, your new album tells the story of an outlaw named Sherry Lee. Please introduce us to her. Honestly, the way Sherry Lee kind of birthed in my brain, it was like a character that just hit me out of nowhere that needed to just be brought to life. When I started working on this album six, seven years ago, I remember writing the first song, just wanted to create this outlaw group who came into this town and took over. And in the chaos of all that, they accidentally took the life of this sheriff. But what they didn't know is this sheriff had a daughter, and that daughter was coming for vengeance.

5:33So really, she just, you know, when I write stories, sometimes these characters just are just birthed out of nowhere, and then they take on a life of their own, and then I just start following their journey, and I just document what I'm seeing. So sometimes when people ask the question, who's Sherry Lee? I'm like, man, you got to find out for yourself. Well, I mean, she's out for revenge, right? She is out for revenge. And that comes up over and over on the album. Like, why did you want to really delve into this idea of revenge and whether it's sweet? And then also looking at how you got to deal with the consequences of your actions.

6:09Is any part of her story rooted in your actual life experience? Yeah, I think as an artist, everything is always rooted. in some sort of life experience, whether you know it or not. I think the beauty of this whole album is how much I'm also learning about myself and helping process a lot of different things that I've experienced in my life about, you know, everyone has a little outlaw and a little cowboy to them, you know, and I think for her it's the same thing. I think a lot of the women that have existed in my life, or I've come across in my life, have all, like, changed me in some way. So it's definitely rooted in some reality.

6:45Maybe there's someone out there that wants to get vengeance against me, you know. Well, there probably is. You're a man, so there probably is. Can I say that? Yeah, you can. Well, I'm just looking at you. I think somebody's going to get some vengeance on you. You're looking at me. You're not the outlaw. So 100%. And maybe it's my way of just coming to terms with it or playing it out, you know, in my own way. Trying to get ahead of it. Get ahead of it. Making it right. It's probably a little bit of that. Yeah. I mean, so you're and speaking of women like your last album was like a huge hit in particular.

7:22Of course, a bar song tipsy. It spent 19 weeks at the top of the the billboard charts is cowgirl, which is on this album. Is that a follow up kind of to tipsy? I mean, it's telling everybody get to the dance floor. You know what I'm saying?

7:55You want to hear something crazy? I actually wrote Cowgirl four years before I wrote a bar song. Oh, okay. It's in a different form. Honestly, it was actually a little more hip-hop before, but it was actually an older song that I had wrote for the first iteration of this album, which initially it was called We Ran the Sheriff Out of Town. And obviously continuing to work on it, I came up with the idea of changing it. I think I have like a notes on my phone with a hundred different titles for the album. And then I remember starring the outlaw Sherry Lee and other Western tales. So Cowgirl was definitely a song birthed in that generation of the album.

8:36And I just brought it back to this one, you know, having a song just for people to dance to. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, was that important for you? Because this is a concept album. It's a high concept album and we're going to get into that. But was it important for you to also have those numbers where people could feel like they could just dance? They don't have to know the whole story. They don't have to be into the whole thing. Yeah, 100 percent. I remember exactly how it came about. You know, I was I was in my high concept world where I'm like, you know, this song got to make sense with this song and this song and this song.

9:08And my manager, he was like, man, we need a song for the ladies. I'm listening to all this. You ain't got nothing for the ladies on here. In that way, Sherry Lee, the whole thing is about that. But you need a song that people can kind of dance to and have fun. And I remember at first he said that. And then another friend came to me and said the same thing without even hearing the music. He was just like, yo, man, I hope you got something for something that's a little bit more easy going. Yeah, yeah. And I remember we threw a party that night, and I remember we were playing all the classics, Wagon Wheel, Chicken Fried, Miss American Pie, all that stuff.

9:45And I noticed that people really started dancing to those songs. And I was like, man, I want to do a new version of those kind of like fiddle tunes. So that's kind of how Cowgirl got birthed. The next day I made the song in the studio. Well, and the concept album, getting into the deep part about it, like it is a combination of songs with lyrics, instrumental numbers, and like these spoken word pieces by these really big stars. Like Hell is Hot, which I think we have a clip of it. Jamie Foxx. Yeah. Hold your fire. Before that fire gets a hold of you. Obviously, that's Jamie Foxx. remember hell is hot but it's damn cold in the sand I mean obviously it gives the album this theatrical feel but like why did you want to include spoken words on your album because I thought when I saw Jamie Foxx I thought he was going to be singing giving us the grooves I'm like what is it like I'm like oh this is different he's giving us the acting you know I'm a mad madman sometimes you know what comes out you know i think for me i have such a i've always wanted to be a filmmaker you know and it's really cool to see i know my childhood self is probably like dang he's he's really doing it but i've always been trying to make films and and and movies and write stories like that so i think my my goal with this was to create an album that did feel like a movie and have features that felt more like an ensemble cast than just music.

11:26You know, I'm always a guy like anytime anyone's dropping an album, I'm always like, who's on the album? What's the features? What's the features? And I think what's really cool about this is the fact that, you know, getting Jamie Foxx, Kehlani, Leon Bridges, Gunna, but also Sam Elliott. Yeah, yeah. Time's up, outlaw. Your ropes run short. someone's gotta pay for all the blood you took it's only you and us now the rest of your boot cut boys are dead i mean how did you get all of these people because i mean you got like everybody so i'm like was anybody hard to get was it just like shabuzi everybody was like yes we doing it I think so, and that's why I think it's really just dope.

12:17So you're saying you're that guy. That's what you're saying. That's what I'm saying. Because I said, Boozy that said, he said, yep, that's exactly what happened. Hey, look, what's really amazing is how a lot of the people on the feature, like the feature list, connect with it. Like Sam Elliott was telling me, you know, a lot of his family members love the song too, and like he loves the song and loves my music. and I think really, man, you know, sometimes you just got to just, you just got to stick to it. You know, I know I had this crazy idea for this Outlaw Sherry Lee for a while and, you know, and I always wanted to do it and do a concept album, but it was about timing.

12:54So it's cool that every step of my journey helped create, you know, I made a lot of friends and fans along the way that, you know, just wanted to be a part of it. You know, I just asked really, and that's what I love about it is, you know, Everybody came and brought something unique. Tiana Taylor, she heard it and she was like, this is like Sinners. It's like some Sinners-ish. I was like, that's crazy. Well, I mean, speaking of, and Kehlani is on it. It's a beautiful piece. It's Bullets and Blades. Let's play a little clip of that.

13:37But I like how they look on your face. Love leaves a stain that reminds us of pain. And one day you will wash away. I know your past was a god-awful place. But look what it made. I know your past was a god-awful place, but look what it made. That's a line. That's a bar. You know what I'm saying? Man, that's a bar. Who wrote that? Man, you know, I would say everybody. All of us collectively as people wrote it, you know. And that's what I love about a song like that. It just feels like it connects with everybody. Like, I remember playing that song at some of the little listening meetings I did, and I couldn't help but to cry, you know.

14:27It's a hard song not to cry to. Because, you know, I know all of us, we've all been through a lot of things, but each one of those things that we went through, I wouldn't be who I was if it wasn't for those moments that, you know, I was, I felt, you know, pain and the things we experienced and the trauma, you know, it made us who we are. And it's beautiful, those imperfections. So I really wanted to do a girl, you're amazing just the way you are. But, you know, Sherry Lee, obviously she's experienced this loss. She's lost both her parents. I mean, she's lost her father. But prior to that, she also lost her mother.

15:02And she's obviously going through all of these different emotions, but it's created this strong, beautiful woman that the character who I play in is Booz, which is myself, falls in love with. And all the other characters, all the other outlaws, everyone's kind of, they have a story before those moments. So it's just about celebrating stories in our past, but also, you know, looking to hopefully have a better future always. When we come back, Shibuzi tells us why this was the perfect moment for Sherry Lee and about his Black country heroes. Stay with us.

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17:18be hot on TikTok, right? Was there any resistance to you doing a concept album and saying, because you, like, going in a different direction and say, let me do this high concept thing instead of, like, letting me just give a bunch of, you know, songs? Because, I mean, as someone else who you worked with famously said, Beyonce, people don't make albums anymore. Mm-hmm. You know? They don't make albums anymore. Yeah. Yeah, man, I mean, I think for me, that's a great question. And it's come up a number of times and there's definitely been some, you know, a lot of like emotions around that whole idea of, you know, doing what's familiar and just doing what, you know, what maybe some would consider the safer thing.

18:06And now I think when I brought the idea, you know, everyone was on the team was really supportive. I was actually very surprised. I mean, this is a this is an idea. I mean, I brought this up a couple years ago, and I remember at that time, you know, people were like, we need to get to know who you are before you, you know, get into this concept world. But now it just feels like they feel like, you know, they said, you know, you've earned this. And I'm just really grateful to have the team I have that support the idea. And anytime I have any doubts, they're like, what are you talking about, brother?

18:36Like, this is exactly what you need to be doing. I mean, you're from Woodbridge, Virginia, a suburb of the D.C. metropolitan area, and your parents are Nigerian. What led you to fall in love with country music? I think a mix of a lot of different things. I think just being in Virginia and just trying to understand the history of music there. You know, I knew, you know, a lot of times when you think of Virginia music, you think, you know, Pharrell, Missy, Timbaland, the Clips, Teddy Riley. I mean, I keep going on, you know what I mean? But there's history beyond that as well with Patsy Cline, you know, a Winchester, Virginia native, Emmylou Harris, who went to our high school, Carter family as well in Bristol, Virginia.

19:23They did the Bristol Recordings, which they recorded with a lot of that, with Leslie Riddle, who also penned a lot of those songs or wrote a lot of those songs. There's just a lot of a rich history of country music in general in Virginia. And I just wanted to figure out a way to celebrate it all, combining, obviously, the hip-hop elements of what we, you know, what I grew up listening to, as well as the country music that I came to love later and what I was exposed to early on in my life. I think it was really just meditating on where I'm from in Virginia. And I've always been kind of just like talking about nature and just trying to help people like just connect back to nature and connect back to the simple things they have, you know, in life.

20:04So it was really me just trying to celebrate those things, you know. Do you feel like, you know, you mentioned obviously Beyonce and Cabo Carter, and obviously there's been all of this attention even way before that on, you know, Black artists and country music. And I know you probably get asked this question all the time. And because of that, I kind of want to ask you, what do you think, like in terms of Black Western history, are there specific people or like historical moments that inspired you? Yeah, I think a lot of classic Western characters, like Bill Pickett, was definitely one I read about.

20:45Bass Reeves, who was a historical lawman back in the West, and George Fletcher as well. There's been so many things. Ever since I started this project, I feel like my algorithm has been just showing me more and more stories that I wish I was able to read before. And I wish more people saw these stories. because I think for the longest time, obviously, like, in the 1950s, 1960s, like, and even earlier, like, the cowboy image, you know, we tend to think that was just, you know, a white man, you know, on a horse with a cowboy hat. But, you know, one in every four cowboys were black. And a lot of them even, like, most of them even vaqueros, like, Latin Americans.

21:24So it's cool to just, like, I hope people see this as a representation and, you know, more people feel brave. Not even brave. They shouldn't even feel brave. Like, this is natural to us. And, you know, when people ask me, why do you make, you know, why country music and why this? I'm like, why not? You know, this wasn't, it wasn't a choice. It almost was just felt like it was a part of me already. So, man, just to be able to continue that history is everything. Well, thank you. That is lovely. And returning to the album, just as we close, I love your song Coyote's Point or coyote coyote we got a clip of it I was going to pick my guitar up and play it right now bring it up the guitar out bring it out

22:14is that y 'all playing it? is you playing it? oh my gosh wow oh my goodness that is beautiful you gotta sing a little bit I gotta hear a little I gotta sing come here yeah come to the show for the rest of that I gotta come to the show okay I knew you were gonna say that you like look you gotta get some tickets yeah get to the show for the rest of that that was wonderful that was but that's Coyote that's Coyote's point and we'll play a clip with the thing we'll play a clip

22:54I love me some moonshine and it knows me well it guides me at night time and fills up the jars on the shelf I've heard it makes coyotes sing ballads and hunt like hell.

23:23I think I might be a bit of a coyote myself.

23:33No spoilers, but there's that song is that's what the whole album is about. She doesn't start out as an outlaw. If you listen correctly, pretty much what happens to her makes her creates that. And that's what The whole, that's what Coyote's point is about. So, you know, she actually becomes the coyote. You know what I mean? She's pretty much saying, she's like, I'm a bit of an outlaw myself. Like, you know what I mean? She's like, dang, after all this stuff, like, I didn't hung out with these guys. Like, I didn't became a part of the whole world. Now, you know, now I love Moonshine, you know? So Coyote's point is actually from the perspective of Sherry Lee.

24:09And I didn't really realize that until I was singing the song on the microphone. And I was like, oh, no. Like, this whole thing is about her going from small town prairie girl, daughter of a sheriff, to then becoming a coyote by the end of the album. But is that where you want people to go on, where we all got a little bit of this in us? A coyote, yeah. A little bit of it in us. We all, yeah, you know, it just takes, nothing's black and white, you know. There's experiences that happen to you, and there's how you respond to the world around you, you know. Yeah. Well, that's Shaboozy talking about his new album, The Outlaw, Sherry Lee and other Western tales.