American Voices on Trump

0:00I'm Aisha Roscoe, and this is the Sunday Story from Up First. The news cycle moves fast, and it's often focused on what's happening in Washington, like cutting federal workers, tariffs, things like that. But how are the headlines playing out for everyday people? For the past several months, NPR reporters Debbie Elliott and Kirk Sigler have been fanning out from Mississippi to Montana to see how President Trump's early actions are affecting Americans. And they're joining us to take a little radio road trip to hear some of that reporting. Welcome to the podcast. Hey, Aisha. Great to be here. Hi, Aisha.

0:39Thanks for having us. So, you know, I do love a good road trip. As long as I'm not driving, you know, I have some Doritos, a Coke, and I controlled a playlist. But for this road trip, this reporting road trip, where are we headed first? Well, I want to take you first to Tupelo, Mississippi. How does that sound? That sounds good. Okay, so Tupelo is up in the north central part of the state. It's not that far if you're making a road trip, say, from Memphis. Then like any good road trip, you have to stop first at the local claim to fame. And in Tupelo, that is the birthplace of the king of rock and roll.

1:20You ain't nothing but a hounder. Welcome to Elvis Presley's Birth House. And look, everybody love a little Elvis. You know, you got to go to the Elvis tourist attractions. I, you know, if I see one, I want to stop. Absolutely. But I was also drawn to Tupelo for a few other reasons. You know, it's this quaint little downtown. It's really got some interesting little shops and restaurants and a little scene brewing there. But it's also a huge manufacturing town. And I wanted to find out how tariffs were affecting people there. You know, plants here make everything from automobile seats to Fox Springs to bespoke blue jeans.

2:07Something like one in five jobs in the region is in manufacturing. And also, Aisha, this is big Trump country. Voters here overwhelmingly supported him. And I wanted to just see what their expectations were. So I stopped by Hawkeye Industries, which makes custom sheet metal parts. CEO and founder Brian Hawkins told me business was good. We're as busy as I've ever been. I'm trying to hire people right now. He is super proud to show off the operation. All right, let's see. Let's walk over here. So he's walking me past this giant machine. It's a laser cutter. He says it's worth something like a million dollars.

2:52It cuts sheets of metal into parts that are going to be used on air conditioning units. It's just so much fun to watch. And I can cut anything from as thin as your hair to up to one inch thick. But the thing is, Aisha, these metal sheets are going to get more expensive with President Trump's tariffs. And Hawkins is OK with that. I look at that as like taxes. everybody's got to pay it. So just get used to it. So what does he mean by everybody? Well, he told me he's going to pass the cost on to his customers and ultimately it'll be consumers who pay. He thinks right now he's looking at about a 5 % increase.

3:33But here's the thing, Aisha, he does not think that this pain will last. First of all, I think the tariffs are going to be short-lived. I don't believe the tariffs are an economic tool. I believe they are a political tool. Now, Hawkins used to be the chairman of the Mississippi Manufacturers Association. He's still very active with the group. And he thinks the pace of change coming from the White House is just fine. Mr. Trump is a businessman, and he knows how to make deals, and his track record has shown it, and he knows what he's doing. He's telegraphing things just to get people upset. You know, He's stirring the pot, and when he does, everybody just comes just wailing.

4:16That's okay. That's all right. So I also spent some time in Tupelo with David Rumbarger, who heads up the local Community Development Foundation. He says people around town seem to feel that Trump's policies will eventually result in a better business climate, but in the short term, the changing tariff rates have caused a bit of whiplash for businesses. You know, business likes a stable environment. So uncertainty does cause a little bit of pain. Andy says manufacturing in the city is dependent on a global supply chain. I mean, we're all interlocked in, whether we like it or not, in international competition for talent, for products, for sales, and for quality of life.

5:02If you don't think a company's competing internationally, if you think we're just selling to the U.S., it's wrong. I mean, everyone is competing internationally. So, I mean, from your reporting in Tupelo, what was your sense of the overall mood of people there? I mean, as you said, this is Trump country. You know, Kirk and I went into this project without any preconceived thesis about what we were looking for. Instead, we just kind of wanted to open our ears and hear how people are responding to the changes that we've been seeing in the second Trump administration. and sort of what people are expecting in the longer term.

5:37In Tupelo, I found a couple of takeaways. One, people are very willing to be patient and give Trump the benefit of the doubt. Here's how defense contractor Gerald Godbolt with Hypernion Technology put it. We support the national interest of making our supply chain more resilient, and if possible, bringing as much of that manufacturing back to the United States or to our friends and allies as possible. I think that's just in America's best interest. So you hear folks willing to put up with some uncertainty for now as they wait for what they expect to be an influx of manufacturing. Well, I guess that is like the key question here that, you know, and we don't know the future, is will manufacturing actually come back?

6:24You know, obviously it sounds like people in Tupelo are banking on that happening. They are. Or when we come back on this American Voices road trip, we head to the oil fields of New Mexico to hear from people there. Stay with us.

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7:22Financing subject to credit approval. Additional terms and conditions may apply. This message comes from Carvana. Selling doesn't need to be stressful. With Carvana, it's quick, easy, and all online. Enter your license plate, get a real offer, and get paid. Visit Carvana.com to sell your car today. We're back with the Sunday story. Kirk, you cover the West and also a lot of rural areas dependent on natural resources that don't get much coverage in the national media. And you've also been looking into how the Trump administration has been affecting American businesses. So where do you want to take us next on the American Voices road trip?

8:09Well, as you said, I cover the West, so let's go West to the oil and gas fields of northwestern New Mexico, where the old iconic pump jacks are still reliably pumping up light, sweet, crude, and natural gas. Now, when Trump first returned to the White House, there was optimism, Aisha, in the oil and gas industry that companies would see higher profits in part because, you know, the Interior Department is saying it's going to fast track approvals for oil, gas, coal and mineral projects on federal land by cutting down environmental reviews from years to weeks. But I have to say that optimism has started fading, at least in some places because of bigger concerns about the economy.

8:51I met up with Sean Dugan. He's a third generation owner of this family drilling business called Dugan Production. It's in Farmington, New Mexico in the northwestern part of the state. Are you guys here until you're done? Now, Dugan told me they're only just now recovering from the COVID pandemic when new drilling and exploration on public lands was almost at a standstill. But now, you know, there's There is a surge in regional development, like these massive data centers going up down in Phoenix. And so there's a potential of a boom. We need more energy. But Aisha, as he's watching these roughnecks and grubby overalls moving huge, long pipes, I watched his grin turn into a grimace.

9:32Your polypipe, which is what these pipelines are made out of now, that all comes from the Asian markets. He says it was already expensive to do business out in this rural area as the cost of parts were already going up with inflation. But now President Trump's trade war is making it worse. And so it's like now you're checking the tariff rate. You wake up, check the tariff rate. And, you know, the thing is, normally Republican administrations are very friendly to oil and gas. But in this instance, those tariff rates mean real money and real costs. And the money that, you know, Sean's trying to live off of seems like, you know, is having an impact on him.

10:13Totally. I mean, you know, consider this. He used to spend 80 grand on a load of those steel pipes that we're looking at out there. You know, they come from Korea, like he says. Now it's more like$120 ,000. Dugan's a businessman. He needs to plan years out, but he told me he doesn't even know what's going to happen tomorrow. It just kneecaps you when all this uncertainty and volatility is in the air. George Sharpe had a similar view. I think the whole tariff thing is going to backfire on Trump. Now, Sharpe is an investment manager for a company called Marion Oil and Gas. It's one of New Mexico's oldest operators.

10:51You know, Trump's drill baby drill and lower oil prices are not simpatico. simpatico. What does he mean by that when he says they aren't simpatico? Right. Well, he's basically saying that if Trump's policies, in his words, tank the economy and oil prices continue to hover at or below the cost of production, you can remove all the regulations you want to make it easier for companies to drill and they're just not going to do it. Build baby build. They want manufacturing to be built here in the US. Well, there's not a manufacturing center that exists here in the U.S. that doesn't have a supply chain that's worldwide.

11:31And Aisha, you know, I heard a similar frustration. Like we said, this is a road trip traveling a thousand miles to the Northwest. The West is a big place up to Washington State, where I've been a couple of times now to talk with wheat farmers. Right up here on the ridge. You know, they ship most of what they grow to Japan, Korea, the Philippines, and they've really been doing that for decades. The assumption was that it would have been done strategically with some thought and planning. This is Jim Moyer talking about the trade war. He's a wheat farmer in the Palouse region of eastern Washington.

12:08His family has farmed out there since 1891. You can see the different kinds of wheat. This is one variety, and that tall one's another variety, and the ones with the little stubby heads, another variety. And Moyer says it's been months now of back and forth. You've got tariffs on, then off, then a social media post putting them back on. It's just making it impossible, he said, to plan for the future. We're looking for stability so that we can adjust and start managing with a pathway that we're reasonably certain of going forward. And I mean, that's been a huge issue with the tariffs, right? Just the lack of stability has made it hard for business people to plan ahead.

12:56Absolutely. I mean, we just heard two concrete examples of that, right? On a follow-up reporting trip to eastern Washington, I met one of Moyer's neighbors, another wheat farmer named Tom Kamerzel, who also honed in on this idea. You just look at the amount of money that's laid out. Combines are a million dollars apiece now. And with prices as low as they are, it's going to be tough, bottom line. You know, so they've got inflation on top of this trade war. But, you know, like a lot of people I've been meeting on this whole project, the minute I asked Kammerzel what he thinks about Trump and how, you know, he's moving the U.S.

13:36toward protectionism, it sure feels like, and away from global trade, things get a little awkward, I got to tell you. Well, it's worth paying attention to, but these things ebb and flow too. So I'm not going to get into politics. I hear that all the time.

13:58Aisha, we are really logging some miles here. So let's turn around and go east to the tiny town of Wimbledon, North Dakota. I chatted with soybean farmer Justin Sherlock. He was in his idling pickup as a Canadian Pacific train rumbled by. Green cars. I see some box cars. I see fertilizer cars that are heading back up to pick up fertilizer in Canada to bring it back to the U.S. So, Kirk, it sounds like you're kind of getting the front row seat to, you know, this global trade, right? Like because a lot of the crops that are grown in the middle of the U.S., they don't stay here in the U.S. They're sent to the international market.

14:38Right. So in North Dakota alone, it's about half of all the soybeans that are grown are for export, mostly to China. I mean, we just can't consume that much. We've gotten so good at growing crops. China is also imposing retaliatory tariffs in response to President Trump's. And it's not looking soon anyway that China is going to be buying much of any American soybeans this year. So this is going to be a lot of harm on farmers. And things are changing hour by hour. How do you operate a business that way? And I mean, the uncertainty that we're talking about, that goes beyond tariffs and international trade.

15:15When we come back, we head to Alabama, where residents fear gains to diverse representation are at risk. And what would a summertime road trip be without a stop at a national park? We'll hear about the impact of Trump's budget cuts to national parks and the Forest Service. What I've been likening it to is it's this facade of a park experience, right? Everything looks great, but there's not much behind it. That's after the break. This message comes from AT &T. Whether you're calling your parents to say happy anniversary or checking in with your kids before bedtime, staying connected matters. That's why AT &T has connectivity you can depend on, or they'll proactively make it right.

16:03That's the AT &T Guarantee. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com slash guarantee to learn more. AT &T. Connecting changes everything. Welcome back to the Sunday Story. We've been traveling throughout the country with NPR reporters Debbie Elliott and Kirk Sigler, hearing how Americans are responding to the Trump administration's early actions. One of those has been to cut diversity, equity, and inclusion programs, DEI. Debbie, you traveled to a couple of Alabama cities to speak with people who are fighting to protect the progress they've made for Black residents in the state. So what did you hear?

16:45Aisha, I heard some guarded optimism, I would say. I started right along the Gulf Coast. So tell me where we are. So we are currently in downtown Mobile in Benville Square. I met with Shalala Dowdy. She's an Army veteran and a West Point grad who lives there. And she was one of the black voters who recently sued Alabama to have a bigger voice in Congress. It's about fair representation. It's about just making sure you have someone that cares about your community. And to me, just being willing to go in the community and talk to the people. So she was one of the people in this lawsuit that actually made it all the way to the U.S.

17:28Supreme Court. They were arguing that Alabama's congressional map discriminated against black voters in a state where African Americans made up about a quarter of the population, but there was only one black representative in the U.S. House of Representatives. So the courts ordered the legislature to change things, but the legislature didn't do it. So the court stepped in and wrote a map that the state had to use. And those new lines resulted in the election of a black Democrat, Representative Shamari figures. So Alabama now has two black members of Congress out of its seven seats in the House of Representatives.

18:11For Dowdy, she says it's made a difference. In the past, I really never really saw my representative, my member of Congress. So it sounds like she's saying that's changed, like, and that now she feels like she has a voice and some power. She does. You know, early in the year, she made a trip to Washington, D.C., and she said she was able to get a face-to-face meeting with representative figures, something that made her feel like she had a seat at the table for the first time. One of the things that she wanted to talk about with her new representative in Congress was what's happening in the Department of Defense.

18:50As we said, she's an Army veteran and West Point grad. She's super upset that her alma mater has recently disbanded certain cultural clubs. The Women's Engineering Club is no longer able to operate. The National Society of Black Engineers is no longer able to operate. We had a majority African-American club that was kind of like our Black Student Union, but we called it Contemporary Affairs Seminar, no longer able to operate. So if three or more black students are gathered, it can look suspicious. The U.S. Military Academy disbanded them to comply with President Trump's executive order intending to remove race and sex-based preferences across the federal government and to combat DEI programs in the private sector.

19:32You know, Trump says those kinds of policies undermine national unity and the traditional American values of hard work and individual achievement. Dowdy sees it a little differently. I will honestly say it's the good old boy system. Someone has a problem with people of color excelling. To me personally, I feel like it's all about making America white again. Well, I mean, what Shalala is saying, I mean, is something that, you know, you often hear from Black people who are concerned about these moves, that it's not about making everyone equal, but it's about keeping Black people behind. And that is the concern that I know I've heard and sounds like you were hearing too.

20:13That is exactly what I heard. And I heard it throughout this district, which sort of stretches from Mobile across the state and then sucks in much of the Alabama state capital city of Montgomery. Shalala kind of looked at it as a reminder of when there's progress, there's pushback, I heard a similar sentiment from Evan Milligan. He is actually the named plaintiff in that redistricting lawsuit. You know, the importance of having more representation at a time when the idea of representation is being undermined, that's a really important thing. So you can hear we were outside. I was sitting down with Milligan on the front porch of a community center he runs right near downtown.

20:55And you know, you've been to Montgomery, Aisha. We were just struck by the history all around us. Alabama's capital city has the place where Rosa Parks refused to yield her bus seat. There's also the steps of the Capitol where Jefferson Davis took his oath as president of the Confederacy. The history is not lost on Milligan. And he says he's committed to building on it and staying engaged in the struggle. I think we have to believe in ourselves and believe that collectively we actually not only can resist, but, you know, over time transcend the direction that some are pulling this country in right now.

21:40And that's a very difficult thing to do. But it starts with the hope.

21:47So, Aisha, you hear him. He's holding on to the hope. I mean, in times, I feel like as a people, that's what we've had to do is hold on to hope. I will say, Aisha, that of most of the people I spoke with in that new district, they would be giving you an amen. You're listening to The Sunday Story. Stay with us.

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22:44We're back with the Sunday story. Now, let's talk about public lands and our national parks. Kirk, I know you've been talking to people who've been facing big changes to the work that they do on public lands. The U.S. Forest Service has had all these workforce reductions and thousands of jobs have been eliminated. At the same time, they're the country's lead firefighting agency. So wouldn't that hurt the country's ability to fight wildfires? Right. U.S. Forest Service hasn't granted me any interview requests, so I'm just working on statements. They email me. But, you know, they've maintained their operational readiness isn't affected by the hiring freezes and that wildland firefighters are exempt anyway.

23:30But I don't think this is the whole story. So what do you mean? Like, what are the larger issues here? Well, consider back in February an untold number of probationary employees were fired around that time. And a lot of these people carried red cards, meaning they might do something else for these lands agencies. But when there's a wildfire, they're trained such that they can leave their regular jobs to help out. So at a stop on our road trip back in New Mexico, I met a woman named Kayla who works for the Forest Service, whose full name we aren't using because she was fired and rehired, like I said, and was worried about retaliation.

24:08It was like a slap to the face. It's shocking to me that our position could be taken away that easily without thorough investigation on exactly what we do and how we perform. So like we've been hearing across all federal agencies, morale is way low. Kayla told me the work that actually helps protect the land and wildlife from wildfires isn't really getting done. With the loss of so many positions, it just seems impossible at this moment. And it's scary. It's really scary. I mean, that all sounds like very risky, given that fires like regularly engulfed Western states. What about the National Park Service?

24:58You know, I remember reading headlines like last spring and they were, you know, warning that visitor centers would be closed because there's not enough staff or bathrooms weren't going to be maintained. because the agency wouldn't be able to handle the millions of tourists this summer. Did people's worst fears actually play out? I mean, I had the same questions reading those articles. And going out in the field, I guess I'd answer you by saying not really, not yet, kind of like with the wildfires. You know, these cuts are real, but they're just not totally obvious to visitors yet. So let me explain.

25:32I went to Montana's Glacier National Park, which, like most major parks, lost an estimated 25 % of its permanent staff due to those doge cuts or the buyouts or some combination of the federal agency hiring freeze that Trump has ordered. And, you know, the crazy thing is, Glacier was again shattering visitor records this summer amid all of these agency cuts. But some tourists I spoke with along the park, stunning going to the Sun Road, it's a big draw. You know, they told me it just felt like business as usual up there. It seems like it's very well maintained. The bathrooms we went to here yesterday were nice.