Bolton Indicted, Trump and Zelenskyy Meeting, Rebuilding Gaza

0:01Don't you love that sound? Coffee pouring in the morning. How strong is the case against John Bolton? The former national security advisor is the latest of President Trump's critics to face prosecution. An indictment says he mishandled classified information. So we'll weigh the strength of this case. I'm Leila Faldil. That's Steven Skeep. And this is Up First from NPR News. The president meets with Ukraine's Volodymyr Zelensky at the White House today. Trump plans to meet Russia's president in Hungary next. Here's one thing we don't know. What could the presidents do any differently than their previous meetings, which led nowhere?

0:39Also, how long would it take to make Gaza livable? Two years of war have destroyed nearly every building and area that has been home to two million people. Stay with us. We've got the news you need to start your day.

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1:38Luckily, the Dell PC helps you get it all done. Get yours at dell.com slash holiday. This message comes from WISE, the app for using money around the globe. When you manage your money with WISE, you'll always get the mid-market exchange rate with no hidden fees. Join millions of customers and visit wise.com. T's and C's apply. There are two ways to look at the indictment of John Bolton. One way is that President Trump's former national security advisor was indicted for mishandling classified information. The other is that the Justice Department is prosecuting another of President Trump's critics.

2:16That leaves a big question. How legitimate is the case and how strong is the evidence? NPR justice correspondent Ryan Lucas is here to work through what we know in our studios here, Studio 31. Ryan, good morning. Good morning. Good to see you early. What is Bolton charged with exactly, and what does the Justice Department say he did? Well, look, he's facing 18 counts in this indictment, eight counts of transmission of national defense information, and 10 counts of unlawful retention of national defense information. And this all dates back to 2018 and 2019 when Bolton was Trump's national security advisor.

2:46And the indictment says that during that time, And Bolton would regularly take handwritten notes on yellow notepads about his daily activities, things that he was hearing in meetings with U.S. intelligence officials or military officials, what was being said in meetings with foreign leaders. So sensitive stuff. Bolton would then transcribe those diary-like entries into electronic form, the indictment says. And then he sent them via a commercial messaging app or his personal email accounts to two family members who did not have security clearances. In total, the indictment says Bolton sent them more than 1 ,000 pages of information, including highly classified materials.

3:21And federal agents recovered printed and digital copies of some of those when they searched Bolton's Maryland home back in August. What was the classified material, though? Well, the indictment doesn't go into detail. There are not country names, for example, but it does provide certainly some sense of what the materials were. One document, for example, the indictment says, reveals intelligence about a foreign adversary's plans to attack U.S. forces. It also reveals a covert action planned by the United States. So very sensitive stuff. Now, you may remember that Bolton wrote a tell-all memoir that was very critical of Trump.

3:52There was a fight several years ago over whether it contained classified information. The indictment says none of the classified information in the charged counts appears in Bolton's book. But it does say that after Bolton left the first Trump administration, his personal email at some point was hacked by people believed to be tied to the Iranian government. And the indictment says that those hackers did gain access to the classified information that he was sending over his personal email. What has Bolton said about all of this? Bolton said in a statement that he has become what he calls the latest target in weaponizing the Justice Department to charge those who Trump sees as his enemies.

4:29He says he looks forward to fighting this, to defending what he calls his lawful conduct, and to exposing what he says is Trump's abuse of power. You've just brought up the crucial question here, or a crucial question anyway. the Justice Department indicted FBI Director James Comey and New York Attorney General Letitia James, both seemingly on the orders of President Trump because they are enemies or perceived enemies of President Trump. Is Bolton's case the same? Well, look, you mentioned how Trump publicly urged the Justice Department to prosecute both Comey and James, and not long after both of them were indicted in cases that we know career prosecutors had serious doubts about.

5:03Right. But they were overruled by a newly installed top prosecutor who once worked as Trump's personal attorney. Yes, Trump is no fan of Bolton's. Yes, Bolton is a very outspoken critic of Trump's. But the case against Bolton comes out of a different U.S. attorney's office. This has followed the normal standard process. And also, this was a long-running investigation. It was going on under the Biden administration, so it predates Trump's return to office. We now have this 26-page indictment with a lot of detailed allegations. So there are significant differences. Now we'll see how it all plays out in court.

5:32This is very interesting because you're saying professionals handled this, which gives us some reassurance. and it's that very professionalism that was questioned by the Trump administration in the past. Ryan, thanks so much. Thank you. And Piers, Ryan Lucas.

5:51Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is in Washington today, where he's set to meet with President Trump in the White House for the third time this year. This time, Zelensky is seeking long-range weapons that could strike far into Russia, and he also wants Trump's help to secure a ceasefire benefiting Ukraine. President Trump spoke by phone with Russia's President Vladimir Putin and says they will meet in Hungary to discuss an end of the war. Joining us now to talk about all this is NPR's Ukraine correspondent Joanna Kakises, who's in Kiev. Good morning, Joanna. Good morning, Leila. So what are Ukrainians hoping will come out of this visit today?

6:29Well, Leila, they're hoping at least for some more military support because this is a war of attrition, remember, and Russia is bigger and has more resources. And now we have been hearing a lot lately about Tomahawk cruise missiles. These are American missiles. They can travel a thousand miles. And Oleksandr Kryev of the Ukrainian Prison Foreign Policy Council here in Kyiv, he told me why Ukraine sees the Tomahawk as an effective tool. Because everything that is long range, everything that is precise, everything that can destroy not only Russian logistics, but also Russian industry, especially Russian fuel industry, is something that is able to stop Russian advances.

7:06But hasn't Trump been giving mixed signals about whether or not he'll send these missiles to Ukraine? Yes. He seemed to be warming up to the idea until his phone call with Putin yesterday. After that call, Trump told reporters the U.S. needs these missiles too and cannot deplete its own stock. And Putin has warned that supplying tomahawks to Ukraine would be a provocation. Ukraine has already been striking Russian refineries and oil depots with its own weapons. What effect has that had? Yeah, Ukraine has struck Russian oil industry targets at least 58 times since August, and that's according to an analysis by Reuters and the Open Source Center in the UK.

7:45These strikes have strained Russia's fuel supply, and as a result, Ukraine's military claims it is seeing Russia lose momentum on the front line. Ukrainian forces say they have been even able to take back some land occupied by Russian forces. Earlier this year, Trump told Zelensky that Ukraine didn't have the cards to win. Does Zelensky have better cards now? Well, it feels that way. And some of that has to do with Ukraine feeling better, feeling stronger. I spoke with Ukrainian lawmaker Oleksandr Modeshko. He leads Parliament's Foreign Affairs Committee. And he brought up another point that Trump seems to see that Ukraine is worth fighting for.

8:22He started to believe in Ukraine that we can win. And strategically speaking, Ukraine is not losing and Russia is not winning the war. On the contrary, the tide might change any time. And also, Leila, the tide has definitely changed in the personal relationship between Trump and Zelensky, at least since Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance berated the Ukrainian leader in the White House this February. Zelensky has even said Ukraine will nominate Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize if the president manages to secure a durable ceasefire for Ukraine. How do Ukrainians feel about the prospect for a ceasefire?

9:00Well, we've been speaking to lots of Ukrainians about this, and they're not optimistic. They say Putin still wants to take over all of Ukraine, and they still see Trump as too soft on Putin. They say they're worried that Trump's attitude toward Ukraine could shift again after his meeting with Putin in Hungary. That's NPR's Joanna Kukasas. Thank you, Joanna. You're welcome.

9:29Now that there's a ceasefire in Gaza, people there face the challenge of rebuilding. There's no money, though. There are bodies and unexploded bombs in the rubble. And virtually every building has been damaged or destroyed. NPR's Greg Myrie is following this aspect of the story from Tel Aviv. Hello again, Greg. Hey, Steve. Wow, this is amazing. And I know President Trump at one point talked about turning this place into the Riviera or some such. But it is what it is now. So where do you start? Well, you just start by clearing the rubble. And NPR's Anas Baba has been walking around Gaza City and he reports that bulldozers are clearing some of the main roads.

10:07But there's still just a huge amount of work to be done. Piles and piles and mountains of debris and rubbles that covers the city streets. We're talking about hospitals. We're talking here about houses. We're talking about universities. Okay, so you've got to clear off the rubble, then start building. What does Gaza need most? Well, Steve, it needs so many things, and let's just focus on one, cement. So basic to building all over the world, yet it has this complicated history in Gaza. Israel says that in the past, Hamas siphoned off cement going into Gaza and meant for civilian projects and made hundreds of miles of concrete tunnels that its fighters used in the war.

10:47Israel says this will not happen again, but this means Israel will keep a close eye on construction materials, and that's likely to slow down the supplies going into Gaza. I spoke with Hadi Amr. He was the U.S. Special Representative for Palestinian Affairs until the beginning of this year. Tens of thousands of Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza used to work in Israel doing construction. They are perfectly capable of doing the work. It's a question of freedom, security, and resources. Oh, that's very interesting. So who is running Gaza right now, the people responsible for security and everything else?

11:26Yeah, Steve, Gaza really doesn't have a government right now. The Hamas leadership has been decimated. The ceasefire calls for a committee of technocrats to be formed, but we don't know when that might happen. The security conditions are still very volatile. Hamas police are back on the streets. Hamas gunmen are waging gun battles with Palestinian clans. A new Palestinian police force is being trained in Egypt. It's supposed to take over at some point, but we don't know when. Well, who is going to be willing to pour their money into Gaza then to finance this rebuilding under such conditions? Yeah, a functioning government and a relatively stable security situation are needed really to encourage the donors to help jumpstart the process, and the absence of these things will slow it down.

12:14Again, here's Hadi Amr. We're at a precarious moment here. If Palestinians can get the freedom to import, export, travel, then we can enter a virtuous circle. But if we don't get that quickly, there's going to be frustration on the ground. So President Trump is calling on wealthy countries to foot the bill. He's referring to the likes of Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, and Qatar. All these countries have provided reconstruction money in the past, and they'll likely do it again, but they don't want this to be an endless cycle. Two potential outcomes, the virtuous circle or the endless cycle.

12:53Greg, thanks so much. Sure thing, Steve. NPR's Greg Meyrie has covered the Middle East for many years. He is in Tel Aviv.

13:07We're sorry to tell you this news. Susan Stamberg has died. She was 87. Long-time NPR listeners know this name. And if you don't, I want you to know. She was one of the network's founding mothers and as host of All Things Considered, the first woman to anchor a nightly national news program. She paved the way for so many of us now in the anchor chair. Stamberg was famous for her tough interviews and, of course, for this. So, the raw cranberries, the small onion plus half a cup of sugar. Her annual cranberry relish recipe became a Thanksgiving tradition for our listeners. She would sneak it on the air.

13:45She would break into programs. Which is appropriate because earlier in her career, Susan broke into broadcast journalism at a time when women were rarely behind the mic. And she wasn't afraid to speak up. Consider this interview with Aaliyah Kazan, legendary director of On the Waterfront, among other films. She would talk a lot with creative people like that, and she questioned him about a controversy. In the McCarthy era, he testified before the House Committee on Un-American Activities and named friends who had been communists. Susan raised this. There's lots for us to talk about. I would like to get the HUAC business out of the way first.

14:24Oh, no, let's not start with that. I'd like to. There are 40 pages in the book, and that's all there is of HUAC in the book. And every interview comes out. That's the most important thing, and I'm tired of it. Here's one thing about Susan Stamberg. When you met her, even in later years, she would have the most brilliant smile, and then she would talk, and you'd realize how tough she was. That's very true. She continued working at NPR for decades. She retired just last month, and her voice is literally part of NPR's headquarters. When you step on the elevators here, Susan Stamberg's voice greets you.

14:56Going up. I always love the tone of that. Going up. Like, if you really want to.

15:06And that's up first for this Friday, October 17th. I'm Steve Inskeep. And I'm Leila Fawlin. Oakland, California tried to clear out a homeless encampment, and then its residents insisted on making a deal. They said they would leave if they received better housing. Run of water. Showers and a bathroom. A parcel for three to five years. Weekly trash pickup. A tiny house community of our own. We hear their voices on the Sunday story right here on NPR's Up First podcast. Today's Up First was edited by Anna Yukoninoff, Rebecca Rossman, Kevin Drew, Mohamed El-Bardisi, and Alice Wolsey. It was produced by Ziad Bach, Nir DeMoss, and Milton Guevara, who is pointing anytime that I need to talk.

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