Caught in Cambodia’s Scam Machine: Part 2

0:00I'm Aisha Roscoe, and you're listening to the Sunday Story from Up First. This is the second of our two-part series with investigative reporter Shibani Mahtani, a story about the people who were lured into working in the global cyber scam industry. Now, if you haven't heard part one, you can go back and listen to that now in the feed. You'll definitely want the start of this story. At the end of part one, Schwebe walked out through the gates of a scam compound after working for almost a year as a scammer.

0:36Shibani Mahtani:Marina, we just want to go back home. Home, to Uganda. Instead, he would wind up on the streets of Phnom Penh. Like tens of thousands of others who've been released in government raids on scam compounds across the country, Schwebe needed emergency shelter, food, and legal support. But instead of aid, there would be obstacles almost impossible to overcome. Amnesty International is calling the current situation in Cambodia a humanitarian crisis and says migrants are falling through the cracks. Shabani Matani continues Schwebe's story. So, after Schwebe walked out of the scam compound, he felt optimistic.

1:23His plan was pretty simple. He would go to the airport and get on a plane. Just like when he arrived, minus the Lexus. Part of the reason Schwebe was confident was because he had almost completed his year-long contract. Before he left the compound, he talked to his boss.

1:42Shibani Mahtani:I told the boss, my contract is over, but I need to go back home. Schwebe was worried about one thing in particular. He knew he'd come in on a tourist visa and had overstayed it by 11 months. Schwebe's boss wouldn't buy his return ticket back to Uganda, but he told him he'd deal with the complications from the overstayed visa. He'd clear the fines and he'd handle the paperwork. So with that understanding, Schwebe bought a plane ticket. It cost him$1 ,300. $1 ,300 Schwebe didn't have a lot of money to spend He told me he had about$3 ,600 or so in his bank account when he left the compound This was the entirety of his savings Both from his previous job in Kampala and the little he was paid in Cambodia But Schwebe had never bought a plane ticket before And he booked it so quickly that he misread the departure time And he missed his flight So at the airport, he booked another flight.

2:43He texted his boss to confirm everything was still good to go. But no reply. So Schweib decided to give it a few days. He cancelled the ticket, and he went back to the city centre to wait for the go-ahead.

3:01Schweib had been in Cambodia for almost a year, but he'd only seen the inside of industrial buildings and garish casinos converted into scam compounds. He'd been looking at screens 12 hours a day. He'd seen nothing of the country at all. Suddenly, he was in a big city and had time to kill. So he started exploring. He walked the streets of Phnom Penh and let himself spend some of his savings.

3:29Shibani Mahtani:To go everywhere, to go in some malls, in some parks, to visit some places, religious temples. I used to go there because I used to stay near the river. He moved from hotel to hotel, sharing rooms with a few of the other Ugandans who'd gotten out with him. He told me about one of the places he liked the most. It's called the Royal Palace. The Royal Palace, constructed for the King of Cambodia in 1865. It's a sprawling, opulent compound with a silver pagoda. There's bark, there are elephants, there are a lot of incredible things there. Even that side of the river, there's a place called Night Market.

4:07Shibani Mahtani:In the morning, it is a new place, but at night, it is a party place. There are festivals all night, all night. But even as he wandered around as though he were a tourist, he couldn't stop thinking about getting home. A few days later, Schweib's former boss got back to him. You can go to the airport. He told him to go ahead and purchase a ticket for February 10th, exactly a year to the day that Shwaib had arrived in Cambodia. So Shwaib booked a ticket for February 10th, his third plane ticket. It was my last money. So what happened when you got to the airport? After taking our bags, then we went to the immigration.

4:56Shibani Mahtani:Because after they check in, you have to go to the immigration. After arriving there, they asked, where are your passports? They scanned his passport, and it was immediately flagged for overstay. Schwab called his boss. The call wouldn't go through. He'd been blocked. Immigration officials told Schwab he couldn't leave without paying his overstay fine. It was$10 a day from the moment his visa expired 11 months ago. Around$3 ,500 in total. The lady was like, you either pay or you go back. Then we stood there. Then they gave us our passports. Then they told us that you go back, you will find your bags outside.

5:42I've heard this story over and over again. Migrants tell me these huge overstay fines are the biggest obstacle preventing them from leaving Cambodia. Aid workers and human rights organizations, including Amnesty International, have criticized the Cambodian government for conducting business as usual. They've called on the Cambodian government to waive the fines. They say people who've been abused, exploited, even trafficked, are now being exploited again. The Cambodian government is working with other governments to clear workers of the overstay fines, but on a case-by-case basis. It is excruciatingly slow.

6:21When I asked the Cambodian government's information minister, Nhat Piktra, to explain why, he told me the priority is shutting down these compounds. That has to be done first. He acknowledged, though, that many of these migrants are victims of trafficking and can't afford to go home. And he called on their embassies to assist. So at the airport, Schweib's fine was due on the spot. He couldn't leave without paying. Schweib said there was no empathy from the immigration official. Was she apologetic? Did she feel bad?

6:54Shibani Mahtani:No, she was so rude.

7:00Do you feel like they just don't understand what you guys have been through? They just see you as people who have done bad things or something?

7:08Shibani Mahtani:No, those from the immigration, they're like the normal local people here. For them, what they knew is that we came here willingly, and we'd been in the overstay intentionally. Schweib was exhausted. He begged the immigration official to just deport him. She wouldn't help, and directed him to another official. The guy told us, no, there's nothing I can do for you, but you can go to a temple. When you go to the temple, you can sleep there. Schweib was now broke. He'd been calling his brother, who lived in Saudi Arabia, for some help with money. And he joined the waitlist for the only shelter for migrants like him.

7:47But it was full, and the waitlist was long. So Shwaib went to the temple.

7:53Shibani Mahtani:It's called Prasad. That's the name they use for the temple. Then we tried to search on the map. That's when we saw a lot of Prasad. Then we saw one near the immigration offices. Then we said, OK, let's just go here. In sometimes chaotic Phnom Penh, where the rise of the middle class has left so many urban poor behind, temples have long been a refuge. Each neighbourhood has one, these Spartan and often small complexes. They're nothing like the grandeur of the great temples in Bangkok, with oversized gold Buddhas and manicured crowns. but their doors are always open to the homeless, to the elderly and rural school children studying in the city with nowhere to go.

8:43Grounds are managed by young monks in orange robes and shaved heads. There's no running water. It's not much more than a safe place to rest for the night amid crumbling statues and the occasional sounds of chanting.

8:58Shibani Mahtani:You find a lot of people who just came there to do it, to worship. It is peaceful. I slept there for like three days. We had nowhere to go.

9:15This was a real low point for Schweip. He felt invisible. There was no one and nowhere to turn to for help. He wanted to at least find a proper room. There were guest houses in the city. they were the cheapest option, often just rooms over modest family homes or shops. But again and again, he was turned away. That's because the Cambodian government had created yet another obstacle. It had announced that landlords who housed foreigners without the right visas would be themselves liable for fines or criminal charges. Locals were afraid, and Schweib was clearly a foreigner. Schweib reached out to Ugandan officials.

9:56They told him they were working on the overstay fines, but there wasn't much else they could do. He tried the UN's migration agency, the IOM, but they couldn't help much either. So Schweib started to think outside of the official channels. Maybe he could just get arrested.

10:15Shibani Mahtani:So that we can get free space to sleep and free food. And ultimately, maybe that would lead to his deportation. He went to the Cambodian Immigration Department several days in a row, trying to convince them to deport him. But officials told him again, until he paid the fines, they couldn't let him go. Every day he stayed in Cambodia, he was spending money. He started skipping meals. His stomach ulcers were bothering him again. Then one day, Shwaib met Mek Dara. My name is Mek Dara. I'm a freelance journalist. Dara, I've mentioned him before. He's my journalist friend who drives a tuk-tuk and has been helping me connect with stranded migrants in Phnom Penh.

11:01That day, Dara was also at the immigration office, looking for groups of migrants to talk to. I'm working on the story and what is your situation. He went up to Shuaib's group and he bought them lunch. You're listening to The Sunday Story. We'll be right back.

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12:06Kids home, trips to plan, routines flipped upside down. It's easy to slip into survival mode, just trying to get through it. Then suddenly, it's over. And you're wishing you enjoyed the days just a little bit more. Therapy can help you slow down and actually be present for the moments that matter. With BetterHelp, you can connect with a licensed therapist from anywhere, on your schedule. Don't just survive the summer. Thrive. Visit BetterHelp.com slash NPR. This message comes from the Freedom From Religion Foundation. A healthy democracy protects the rights of people with many different beliefs.

12:43One way the Constitution does that is through the separation of church and state. The Freedom From Religion Foundation is an organization that works to defend that constitutional boundary. Visit ffrf.us slash public or text public to 511-511 to learn more. Because protecting the First Amendment protects everyone. Text fees may apply. Few people know Cambodia and its scam industry like Mek Dara. Back when I first started reading about it all in 2021, Dara's byline was, Everywhere. And he really became the guy that foreign media would work with when reporting on the scam industry. Dara has a really unique approach.

13:30He sees things structurally. For him, it was never enough to interview someone who escaped a scam compound and just ask about their experience. He wouldn't stop there. He always wanted to take a step further and ask, Do you know who you worked for? Who were the bosses? Who did they report to? And who owned the property? But these are dangerous questions in Cambodia, because they trace back to some of the most powerful people in the country. Cambodia is a single-party state. Political power is sustained by a class of tycoons who have a close relationship with the ruling Hun family. Independent reporting from outlets like the New York Times show that these tycoons have directly profited from the scam industry.

14:22Even the prime minister's cousin had a stake in a scam-linked entity. In 2023, the Cambodian government ramped up its repression against non-governmental organizations and others who were vocal about the scam industry, including what was left of the country's independent media. The government forced Daraa's news outlet, the Voice of Democracy, to shut down. journalists started dropping out of covering the scam industry. But Dara kept reporting. I think for him it was like a mission or a calling.

14:56Dara and I met in 2024 when I reported in Cambodia. But about two weeks after that trip, I was on vacation in Thailand when my phone started blowing up, with just a ton of messages from people in Cambodia saying Dara had been arrested. Ostensibly, Dara was arrested for a social media post that was critical of the Cambodian government. The government eventually charged him with inciting social disorder. And they released a statement saying this case was not related to Dara's journalism. But many of us who knew the forces at play here believed the government was punishing Dara for his reporting.

15:30He would end up being held in jail for a month. When I was back in Phnom Penh this March, It was the first time, actually, that I'd spoken to him at length about what had happened to him.

15:46Dara had been briefly detained in the past, but he had no idea this time the charges were so serious.

15:55He was transported by military police to prison. He remembered that first day in his cell. They gave him some kind of soup and rice, but... No utensils. I don't have a spoon to eat the food. And so he had to eat it with the palm of his hand. I have to use my hand to eat rice and pick up soup, you know. Is this real, you know, like I start to feel and it is really, really horrible situation inside there, yes. He still looked very shaken, recounting that to me. technically the case against Dara hasn't been fully dropped it's still hanging there sort of like an anvil over his head and I think he's really aware of it when he was let out of jail he told people that they'd broken his spirit and he just didn't want to be a journalist anymore so for a while Dara laid low and his bylines basically disappeared until Cambodia, bowing to international pressure, began its crackdown on the scam industry.

17:09And, you know, I think this has created an opening for him to continue his reporting. Because at least for the moment, Cambodia is admitting that they have a big scam problem. And Dara says, with such immense need in front of him, he just can't look away. It is, yes. It is really speechless to see this situation. I would say that I think Dara, in this particular moment in Cambodia, he's definitely, to our Western eyes, crossed a bit into a volunteer or an activist rather than just a journalist.

17:53After they met, Dara became a lifeline for Schweip. It started with the little things. He drove him around with his tuk-tuk for free in the city, helped him print out his documents. And when Schweip ran out of cash, Dara was there.

18:23Shibani Mahtani:Dara was on call.

18:30Schweib and thousands of others like him are facing this immense need for support at possibly one of the worst times for global aid. In Cambodia, there's pretty much only one shelter that's open to victims of human trafficking. That shelter was funded by the U.S. Agency for International Development, USAID, until the Trump administration shut down the agency in July of 2025. The shelter then had to lay off staff and scale back operations. It's now partially funded by the IOM, the UN Agency for Migrants. It can only accommodate 120 people. This is the shelter that Schweib was on the waitlist for.

19:13The shelter has had to turn away hundreds of people per week since January of this year. Outside of this shelter, some countries, like Indonesia, have taken steps to deal with their own citizens. The Indonesian government rented a warehouse in Phnom Penh and told people they could go there and get food and some medical support. But when I visited this warehouse in March, it was overcrowded and dirty. The place reeked of cigarettes. So many Indonesians have just preferred to stay outside on the street, close to the embassy. I found another group of people sleeping here and making their bed for the night on makeshift blankets and pillows.

19:59Yeah, it's a really sort of overwhelming sight, actually. Are you waiting for the money to go home? No money. The Cambodian authorities have also detained many scam workers for visa violations. Aid workers in contact with migrants inside say these detention facilities are shot on basic supplies, like food and water. And authorities haven't differentiated between criminals and victims. So now, bosses and workers are being held in the same space. A video circulating on social media earlier this year showed them brawling over food. If you only looked at what the Cambodian government and police are posting, you'd think the crackdown is going really well.

20:51There are dramatic videos of the raids, of deportations, of groups of people per walked through the airport. But there's been no international, large-scale response to the dire situation of these migrants. Not from embassies, not from aid groups. UN agencies have a mandate to help, but over the last six months, they haven't stepped up in any sort of systematic way. Their piecemeal support hasn't met the overwhelming need. And reports have come out showing that people on the streets are now being re-recruited into the scam industry. All of this has made Dara extremely angry. people question me why i'm coming back because the people who support to do their work they fail to do their work i would not come to clean their ass if they do their work properly you know like we have seen ngo we have seen other journalists we have seen embassy we have seen many people they just like they don't care and so i think with every call he gets from someone with every message he gets for help, he takes it so personally and he feels it so deeply.

22:00It is hard to walk away. People are asking for you to help and then like shouting, you hear it. And then you say, no, I'm not hearing it. And then you keep walking. To me, I'm not that kind of person. When I see, when I heard the people shouting for help, at least I can help. You know, what Dara has really been doing is holding this kind of one-man fundraiser. He's been hitting up contacts from his years of reporting and his job as a researcher, and in this very informal way has been asking them for money. And then buying basic things like bread, milk, vegetables for the people who are still stranded in Cambodia.

22:41I cannot help them to reach their goal, but to make sure that they are not hungry. they could have tonight, could be they can sleep in the gas house so they feel better. So that is what I have been trying to do. Dara and Schweib's bond with each other really struck me when I spent time with them. Anytime we were driving around on the tuk-tuk, even talking about some pretty dark and heavy things, there was always a lot of laughter, a lot of jokes.